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 Jidmah wrote:
Hard maybe?

They still are selling the model, and we have a precedent of recently produced models not losing their datasheets with the KFF mek.

IMO it's more likely that FW stuff goes away than the kopta.

I hope that you are right. The best case is that GW will make a new multipart kit with additional options and perhaps the option to build a different unit.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 deffrekka wrote:
Id like Orks to get more solid slug weapons, Mek Gunz are cool and all but they are for Meks. Id like lobbas back, high calibre weapons, 'eavy sluggas for Nobz (like what assault Intercessors get) and new ammo types.

Back during Assaut on Black Reach, Warboss Zanzag gave his boys special ammuniton to crack Space Marine armour. This was when Supa Shootas didnt exist as a model for our planes and was in the lore for Waaagh! Zanzag.

Have Orks with weird tech but let the other boys have some powerful shootas and kannons that isnt overly Meky.

If Koptas get a new kit, id like kopta rokkits to be more unique than 2 rokkit launchas, even if it had a rokkit kannon instead, and for the 2 big shootas to be their own thing. In DoW3 the big shootas were 4 barrels and the same was for the artwork in raid on kastorel-novem. Something akin to a smaller Deffstorm Megashoota or a Supa Shoota. Id also like to see the Deffkopta loose the vehicle keyword, if an ATV is a bike or a Skyweaver, why isnt a Deffkopta. it used to be a jetbike.

Giving the 'koptas wing missiles and/or rokkit cannon would definitely give them some additional punch, just as long as they don't make them too expensive to use for contesting objectives.

its entirely possible they give the koptas the "buggy treatment" since the Chinork went away and the ork fanbase is very vocally pissed about that one and technically the only deffkopta model is that really old fugly finecast one, as the one we all use doesnt exist anymore.

Lets just hope they dont give us 6 again that keep stepping on each others toes...
1 for high RoF (Give us a gakton of shots for cheap, like 20 S5 AP1 shots for ~80pts)
1 for high damage, or the "Mek Kopta" essentially.
1 for transport, basic weapons. ala bigshootas maybe rokkits. Downside is knowing GW they'll probably make it a capacity of 6

3 distinct roles, most likely 3 kits unless they realize how dumb that was to have multiple monopose kits.
They'd be different than the buggies because they fly, presumably innate deepstrike, and different weapons.
Course other than the fly im not sure how you could make the Mek Kopta different from the Shokkjump i guess. If it was just as simple as "more shots but no BS3" it would still come down to whichever has better mathhammer and nothing else.

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
So with the commandos, are you guys actually fighting with them any or is their main job to just stand on objectives and secure things like Engage on All Fronts or fix teleport homers? Just wondering how they're typically used. They don't seem like they'd be able to kill much more than some unattended IG weapon teams or maybe a marine devestator squad if you brought the nob with klaw.

Exactly. It´s important to start building your list with the Objectives in mind in 9th and not like before just asking how good units are at killing/surviving. Kommandos are a perfect example of Deploy Scramblers enablers. Thus they have little point in costing extra unless you plan another role for them.

I also use Grotz for Scramblers. T1 they step over into midfield and do the midzone and T2 they step back and do deploy. T3 Kommandos enter and do opponents deploy. Max cheapness for 10 VP.

I have a hard time deciding on if I should keep my Deffkoptas with rokkits or convert them to big shootas before I paint them.
Big shootas are cheaper and thus a lesser waste of points when they get killed trying to go for objectives.
Rokkits have actual killing power, and when fielded in a unit of three, it might even make sense to use a stratagem on the unit to increase their power for one turn.

 Bonde wrote:
I have a hard time deciding on if I should keep my Deffkoptas with rokkits or convert them to big shootas before I paint them.
Big shootas are cheaper and thus a lesser waste of points when they get killed trying to go for objectives.
Rokkits have actual killing power, and when fielded in a unit of three, it might even make sense to use a stratagem on the unit to increase their power for one turn.

Magnets, my friend! It's always best to magnetise everything you can!

Just ran this list against CWE.

https://pastebin.com/AptsMkXN

Take aways:

1) Mega Dread was fun, but largely a distraction carnifex. It took *just enough* extra resources to remove it that it gave him headaches. It also exploded, hitting like 9 units (mine and his).

2) MSU Killa Kans w/ Rockets actually did alright. Being able to operate independently without worry about morale, and with tin heads +1 to hit, they actually didn't too *too * bad. I would do it again if I ever did a spearhead tin head army.

3) Kannonwagon was freaking awesome. I think this unit is a winner.

4) Big Trakk still is interesting, but how it played in the game, a trukk would have probably done the same and saved points.

5) Deff Dreads, even hitting on 2s, can really, really whiff.

6) I wish we had another way of giving Mega Nobs a 3+ to hit that wasn't the waaaagh banner, cause man it ruled.

Overall, though, a Walker heavy Tin head army is really fun. I recommend.

 Scactha wrote:

I also use Grotz for Scramblers. T1 they step over into midfield and do the midzone and T2 they step back and do deploy. T3 Kommandos enter and do opponents deploy. Max cheapness for 10 VP.

Sorry, but you do Scramblers wrong. Midfield have to be done 6” away from any deploy. You can Deploy Scramblers in your deploy T1 and than march forward to move whole grot unit 6” away = 2 turns of march, because you can' t advance + do action in one turn.

My workflow is:

1x10 grots - do scramblers T1 in my deploy
2x5 kommandos without nob - T2 and T3 in midfield and enemy deploy. And die, or I hide them behind the corner to do All fronts, or charge some Leman Russ or whatever to cripple his shooting for a turn.
1x5 kommandos - to fight for low guarded objectives T3+ or solve a troubles in my deployment.

And i don' t understand, why the orks should deploy some damned scramblers. I call it Deploy Fungus. So even I' m defeated, orks will rise again!

Hi I plan to build a Kill Tank out of a Baneblade hull, but I am a bit confused about the Giga Shoota, what exactly is this weapon. From the pictures I have found of the FW model it looks like a bunch of medium size barrels. Someone who knows?

 Nora wrote:
Hi I plan to build a Kill Tank out of a Baneblade hull, but I am a bit confused about the Giga Shoota, what exactly is this weapon. From the pictures I have found of the FW model it looks like a bunch of medium size barrels. Someone who knows?

It pretty much is a bunch of barrelled weapons strapped together, so there isn't a distinctly uniform model type for it. So it's some you could easily kitbash/convert from gun bits lying around.

 Nora wrote:
Hi I plan to build a Kill Tank out of a Baneblade hull, but I am a bit confused about the Giga Shoota, what exactly is this weapon. From the pictures I have found of the FW model it looks like a bunch of medium size barrels. Someone who knows?

Well, it' s like a Shoota. But bigger. Yeah, bigger than Big Shoota. Even bigger than Supa Shoota or Mega Shoota. Simply - Giga Shoota. A lot of medium size barrels is fine, but if we' re speaking about some conversion, I will give a try to something like giga gatling. Mega Shoota is a gatling from small gatlings. So let' s try something giga gatling from gatlings from gatlings. Honestly, I don' t like oficial version so much... it looks like... not enough dakka?

 Tomsug wrote:

 Nora wrote:
Hi I plan to build a Kill Tank out of a Baneblade hull, but I am a bit confused about the Giga Shoota, what exactly is this weapon. From the pictures I have found of the FW model it looks like a bunch of medium size barrels. Someone who knows?

Well, it' s like a Shoota. But bigger. Yeah, bigger than Big Shoota. Even bigger than Supa Shoota or Mega Shoota. Simply - Giga Shoota. A lot of medium size barrels is fine, but if we' re speaking about some conversion, I will give a try to something like giga gatling. Mega Shoota is a gatling from small gatlings. So let' s try something giga gatling from gatlings from gatlings. Honestly, I don' t like oficial version so much... it looks like... not enough dakka?

I imagine you could make it look pretty good depending on what gun barrels you use, for a rotary barrel, the Riptide Gatling Cannon works pretty well. But this is a good point of reference IMO:

Grimskul - yeah, this is almost enough dakka. And this one looks definitely better then the official model.

What model is it? Is there somewhere more photos? Looks pretty cool!

 Tomsug wrote:
Grimskul - yeah, this is almost enough dakka. And this one looks definitely better then the official model.

What model is it? Is there somewhere more photos? Looks pretty cool!

Yeah, it's a fantastic conversion of an Ork Deff Bomma by Ian Wyatt, he does a ton of great Ork stuff on his channel.

Haha, thanks for reply and nice inspirations!

Sooo... Got to play around with a bunch of forgeworld stuff...

Mostly incursion sized games. Been trying out the new bikerboss squiggoth and the nob warbikers.

Bikerboss got immensely better. +1attack, tougher and got the right keywords. Played bin once as evil sunz... Wow... With squigtires and sunz trait he got 18" movement plus 1 to advance and charge... essentially giving him a threat range of 23 -38 FREAKING INCHES

T8 with the warlord trait is really good. All but the highest tier anti-tank weapons will only wound him on 4's, also great against powerfist wielding S4 guys. But it doesn't make him invulnerable... He will still die if left alone but it will take a big part of the opponent's firepower...


Next were the bikers... They cost 5 points less than before, so they make an ok distraction unit. Equip them with bigchoppas and they can even threaten stuff. Low footprint, extremely fast but not so durable with an ok punch and good enough dakka to plink off a wound or two... Make em another 5 points cheaper and they will be a good unit again.


The squiggoth.... Damn... I really want to like this guy because I always want to field my conversion... He got better... T8 goes a long way, so he can keep up with T8 spam. But that's it generally... He got tougher. 3+ save is good, but he still lacks punch. Compared to a bonebreaker, the squiggoth lacks behind because he costs more and doesn't do that much.

The nice thing is his howda however... Bering able to move and still shoot at full BS is great... But the two units that would benefit most are lootas (which are lackluster to begin with) and flashgitz (great, but massively overpriced)


Next I wanna try the big trakk as a substitute for a trukk.
Does anyone have experience with that? 15points for extra movement, extra wounds and 2bigshootaz instead of one doesn't seem as bad... But imo the trukk is overpriced to begin with... So yeah.. idk

If this has been mentioned somewhere else I am sorry. But I was looking over the legends for orks and found my old 5th edition friend the ork Lobba. It is listed at a whopping 8 points per gun. You can have them in groups up to 5 with 48" range, 4+ to hit heavy d6 str 5 ap 0 damage 1 and can target units that it cannot see. for 40 pts this seems like a steal for 5d6 str 5 shots at bs 4+ and has dakka dakka dakka, this seems like it might be a decent option. Keep in mind I have not really played much since 7th edition so the dex may have far better options now, but on paper this seems like a deal.

Lobba used to be great because it was cheap blast, which had a habit of ignoring cover and causing excessive hits with barrage. It offset the fact they had basically no ap.

Now that things have more wounds and a good save, plus it on average has less hits, lobbas arent as great. I used to always have a squad of 5 and they'd consistently delete a squad of marines when they fired, they'd hit that often.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Lobba used to be great because it was cheap blast, which had a habit of ignoring cover and causing excessive hits with barrage. It offset the fact they had basically no ap.

Now that things have more wounds and a good save, plus it on average has less hits, lobbas arent as great. I used to always have a squad of 5 and they'd consistently delete a squad of marines when they fired, they'd hit that often.

Exactly. Right now it's a chaff clearer at best, and we have way more cost effective options in our current non-Legends roster that also actively help with board control. Given how aggressive your army needs to be to contest mid-board objectives, the extra range and ignoring LoS isn't as useful as you'd think it would be.

They would have to make Lobbas have more shots and some measure of AP before it would be worth considering, and even then Smasha Gunz would likely beat them out for points efficiency.

I'm assuming there's been no further hints as to who the upcoming codexs are beyond deathguard? 2 mystery codexes coming next year that are thought to be dark angels and someone else right?

Just keen to see if the design philosophies seen in necron and marines continues.

Lobbas in boom boys are a bit better -- getting +1 STR, +1 AP to the tune of STR 6, AP-1, Damage 1.

But I doubt it's enough to justify taking a boom boys detachment.

tulun wrote:
Lobbas in boom boys are a bit better -- getting +1 STR, +1 AP to the tune of STR 6, AP-1, Damage 1.

But I doubt it's enough to justify taking a boom boys detachment.

If it was an extra damage on top of that it would push them into usable territory given how D2 is effectively the norm with all the marines running around the place nowadays. As is S5 and S6 are almost interchangeable, only the AP really is useful.

yeah 1D is really only a good weapon these days if its in sheer ridiculous mass.
Which oddly enough orks are NOT a stupid high rate of fire army, despite how people view us. Melee yes, shooting, actually its just lootas and shoota boyz everything else is pretty tame RoF wise

 Vineheart01 wrote:
yeah 1D is really only a good weapon these days if its in sheer ridiculous mass.
Which oddly enough orks are NOT a stupid high rate of fire army, despite how people view us. Melee yes, shooting, actually its just lootas and shoota boyz everything else is pretty tame RoF wise

I think it's largely because GW always wants to give Orks random shot weaponry if possible. For a long time before our 8th ed codex, the deffstorm megashoota for our Gorkanaut was 3D6 shots instead of the flat 18 now. Burnas are still bizarrely only D3 shots. Same thing for Lootas, who would really benefit from having a flat 3 or 2 shots like regular autocannons. They're slowly starting to move away from random D6 shots for Ork weapons, but it still pales in comparison to a lot of other armies. Somehow they equate bad accuracy with random shots, when it should actually be the other way around for armies like marines, who are usually hyper accurate with 3+ to hit with rerolls, but have a crazy flat rate for the number of shots.

 some bloke wrote:

 Bonde wrote:
I have a hard time deciding on if I should keep my Deffkoptas with rokkits or convert them to big shootas before I paint them.
Big shootas are cheaper and thus a lesser waste of points when they get killed trying to go for objectives.
Rokkits have actual killing power, and when fielded in a unit of three, it might even make sense to use a stratagem on the unit to increase their power for one turn.

Magnets, my friend! It's always best to magnetise everything you can!

Good point, it shouldn't be that hard to magnetize a couple of big shootas and rokkits to go on each deffkopta.

I just always play them with rokkits. I just hate having big shootas on them - rokkits are likely to do nothing, big shootas are guaranteed to do nothing.

 Jidmah wrote:
I just always play them with rokkits. I just hate having big shootas on them - rokkits are likely to do nothing, big shootas are guaranteed to do nothing.

That was my previous point. Even if they make big shootas free, it will be like not having a ranged weapon on them.

Big Trakk - I tried it last week and I was happy with it. Holds more, go faster and even killed 2 guardsman. But 1 game is too less to judge.

I liked especially the shape. Low profile keeps him in cover, large footprint control more area and blocks the enemy movement pretty well.

 Tomsug wrote:
Big Trakk - I tried it last week and I was happy with it. Holds more, go faster and even killed 2 guardsman. But 1 game is too less to judge.

I liked especially the shape. Low profile keeps him in cover, large footprint control more area and blocks the enemy movement pretty well.

I actually quite like the idea of the Big Trakk as a juiced up Trukk. The mobility, wounds and big shoota is welcome for the 20pts extra you pay for it. Its just annoying its a Heavy Support in that configuration when it feels more like a Fast Attack or even a Dedicated Transport. I havent worked out what id use it to transport yet but for its cost I like it. With the rise of Eradicators and other AT options cropping up in 9th, the lower toughness doesnt matter all that much as whatever is out there will most likely kill a Battlewagon as easily as a Big Trakk and atleast they will overkill the Trakk with Eradicators.

 deffrekka wrote:

 Tomsug wrote:
Big Trakk - I tried it last week and I was happy with it. Holds more, go faster and even killed 2 guardsman. But 1 game is too less to judge.

I liked especially the shape. Low profile keeps him in cover, large footprint control more area and blocks the enemy movement pretty well.

I actually quite like the idea of the Big Trakk as a juiced up Trukk. The mobility, wounds and big shoota is welcome for the 20pts extra you pay for it. Its just annoying its a Heavy Support in that configuration when it feels more like a Fast Attack or even a Dedicated Transport. I havent worked out what id use it to transport yet but for its cost I like it. With the rise of Eradicators and other AT options cropping up in 9th, the lower toughness doesnt matter all that much as whatever is out there will most likely kill a Battlewagon as easily as a Big Trakk and atleast they will overkill the Trakk with Eradicators.

I agree, big trakks should go to dedicated transport, and should also be able to be fielded in heavy support with the big guns. Simple rule could let this happen, saying can be dedicated but dedicated can't take big guns. Or separate the datasheets to big trakk & Guntrakk (and give us guntrukks, they would be so cool!)

 Jidmah wrote:
I just always play them with rokkits. I just hate having big shootas on them - rokkits are likely to do nothing, big shootas are guaranteed to do nothing.

They are great regardless.

I've had so much success with Deff Koptas with *any* loadout. The rockets are nice if you want that utility pick, but having them as cheap as possible also makes it less painful to throw them away.

The Big shootas hit like a wet noodle, but for the 2-3 MSU koptas I bring, could those 30-45 points be used elsewhere? Probably. And I still get a unit that is just so bloody annoying.