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 Crimson wrote:
So how are people feeling about the Sternguard now? They lost their stratagem, so there is less incentive to keep the special issue bolters. Still, the bolters are pretty decent and don't cost any extra. Assuming that I want to put them in a pod, should I just keep them cheap or are the options worth it? And if they're which ones?

I think spamming stern is the way to go. 2 MM/Grav in a 5 man unit - 4 in a 10 man.

Capt
Lib

Take 15 stalker intercessors
Take 25 Stern combat squaded in 3 drop pods With Multi Meltas + your characters.
Max out on Redemptor dreads

Rest of points into
bikes/outriders/ATV/Eradicators to whatever suits your fashion.

 Cybtroll wrote:
I've got a question for you, specifically because you've probably have the Codex in a different language than mine, so it's worth checking if it's a localization or a generalized issue.

The upgrade to Master of the Forge: how much it cost? I found +20 points in the rules description, but +30 points in the final summary with point cost.
This BTW applies to almost all the roles with the exception of Chapter Master: are 10 pt less in the paragraph rather than in the summary.

How much really it is? Considering the rule, I suppose +20 makes more sense... but how can I trust the summary if they botched probably the most important part and the easier to double-check?

I have the same though about scout until i looker deeper. They have the smokecreen keyword, they have concealed positions and outflank rules and they have access to the special weapon.

5 scouts with one flamer outflanking a captain in the back and add some smokescreen, you got some good distraction. They will be better as troop but i understand why they are in the elite section. Just need to use them better.

bmsattler wrote:
I think that Vanguard Veterans were a better deal in 8th edition than Assault Marines, and I think they are even better in 9th edition.

I believe you can also give individual Vanguard Veterans two hand flamers each. Something I'm considering especially for Salamanders who could use a little mobility.

Hand flamers would be a compromise worth trying, I think. But unfortunately they're limited to Deathwatch and Blood Angels only.

Thanks for setting me straight on that! I was looking over the points section instead of the pistol list.

Any Primaris units, specifically Infantry units, that aren't worth taking atm?

Arcanis161 wrote:
Any Primaris units, specifically Infantry units, that aren't worth taking atm?

Veteran Intercessors. Cool idea on paper but there is really nothing that makes it stand out.

Sotahullu wrote:

Arcanis161 wrote:
Any Primaris units, specifically Infantry units, that aren't worth taking atm?

Veteran Intercessors. Cool idea on paper but there is really nothing that makes it stand out.

Wrong... give them a chainsword and you got 51 attacks on charge for 220 pts.

How are those new turrets? Are they decent? I am debating about picking a some up when I get the codex this week. Are they useful? Mediocre?

 hellpato wrote:

Sotahullu wrote:

Arcanis161 wrote:
Any Primaris units, specifically Infantry units, that aren't worth taking atm?

Veteran Intercessors. Cool idea on paper but there is really nothing that makes it stand out.

Wrong... give them a chainsword and you got 51 attacks on charge for 220 pts.

I didn't say that Veterans are bad, just uninteresting for Elite choice. I just see no reason just to take regular version to fill troop slots and take terminators or bladeguard instead. Or in my case, Death Company Intercessors.

 hellpato wrote:

Sotahullu wrote:

Arcanis161 wrote:
Any Primaris units, specifically Infantry units, that aren't worth taking atm?

Veteran Intercessors. Cool idea on paper but there is really nothing that makes it stand out.

Wrong... give them a chainsword and you got 51 attacks on charge for 220 pts.

now if only they could use honor the chapter

 hellpato wrote:

Sotahullu wrote:

Arcanis161 wrote:
Any Primaris units, specifically Infantry units, that aren't worth taking atm?

Veteran Intercessors. Cool idea on paper but there is really nothing that makes it stand out.

Wrong... give them a chainsword and you got 51 attacks on charge for 220 pts.

I think they might actually be something worth putting in a Repulsor. Of course then you're looking at 500 points in a single spot, and everyone and their brother will shoot the crud out of it. So maybe not.

BrianDavion wrote:
now if only they could use honor the chapter

They could have easily made it 2 CP on Assault Intercessors, Veteran Intercessors, Assault Squads and Vanguard Squads, and then 3 CP for all other units.

 hellpato wrote:

Sotahullu wrote:

Arcanis161 wrote:
Any Primaris units, specifically Infantry units, that aren't worth taking atm?

Veteran Intercessors. Cool idea on paper but there is really nothing that makes it stand out.

Wrong... give them a chainsword and you got 51 attacks on charge for 220 pts.

Vanguard Vets with 1 lightning claw and a chainsword cost the same and will outperform them in melee against any target. Even Primaris only strats will not make up the difference.

Plus the Vanguard have cheaper transports and other options, like jump packs and storm shields. There is no good reason to take melee Vet Intercessors.

There's maybe an argument to be made for shooty Vet Intercessors, but I'd much rather take regular Intercessors (lose 1 attack for obsec), or Sternguard instead.

Never mind.

So how are people feeling about the chapter master upgrade? It is rather pricy, but assuming one would want to use it what sort of captains are the best candidates for it? The relic would be pretty nice if comboed with gravis for T6 and 2+ save or with the Primaris captain with a shield for effective 1+ save and T5.

 Crimson wrote:
So how are people feeling about the chapter master upgrade? It is rather pricy, but assuming one would want to use it what sort of captains are the best candidates for it? The relic would be pretty nice if comboed with gravis for T6 and 2+ save or with the Primaris captain with a shield for effective 1+ save and T5.

I think 8th edition supplement chapter masters with names, (eg. Shrike and Kantor) are still costed at their original 8th edition points right now, but they have the 9th edition chapter master abilities in the FAQs. So they are kind of a bargain right now compared to scratchmade chapter masters.

What do people think of the Whirlwind at 125pts?
I like that it finally has a strat with some niche use, I really want to take one, but it also seems like it's still paying the points cost for it's short lived time in 8th.


And has anyone seen anything definitive on the chapter specific litanies from Faith & Fury?
Logically, I think if GW wanted them to be used they would have put 1 more page in the codex and included them. The knowingGW part of my brain says, they probably forgot and since they didn't FAQ them away (in the F&F FAQ anyways), they are all still legal to use...

I do not really see the stratagem as that good. 2 CP to deny them the posabilaty to pay 1 cp and not fire overwatch is not so good in general, although as a niche it can be good.

How often in 9th edition do you fight 2 turns in a row? Not often. Perhaps if you can shoot them and then deny anybody fighting first if they charge. I do not have the corect wording. If so, that becomes much more powerfull.

It is indirect fire, so you can hide the whirldwind a bit. 125 is very cheap for the SM codex. Againt an MSU oponent it can be very good at shooting lone units of objectives, like guards, guardians, gretschins, boys, gaunts etc.

It depends on the rest of your list. The more options you take away from your opponent (a list that can preasure in some way) the better the whirlwind becomes.

I think it can be good in SM or BA. If the enemy is clumped together you can engage them. If they spread out the whirlwind can thin ranks.

The strat is 1cp to both deny them overwatch and give them fight last until your next turn. Which seems to me it covers both preventing them from paying to interrupt if you charge and making them fight after you if they charge in their turn, which seems nice vs any assault threat that doesn't start from reserve.

If you think the base chassis and fire power for 125 is good, then it seems a very appealing choice. I think it's slightly expensive for the shots and you cant clear a point with a single whirlwind, but, I was looking for something to camp a point in my own backfield and the tank chassis doesn't seem too bad for that.

Judiciar, yes or no? Especially in a SW army with heroic interventions galore? Kinda on the fence about him, could be an amazing deterrent against charging in the right company.. Maybe with a bunch of Bladeguard? Previously you would have taken a Wolf Lord or Battle Leader with Armour of Russ but that is no longer an option..

Thoughts on what Super Doctrines aren't worth it, especially combined with good base Chapter Tactics?

I was idly musing about a list with a fast melee element (either BA or SW-leaning SW, for those tasty W4 Thunderwolf Cavalry) and a Dark Angels firebase, to benefit from +1 to-hit. Neither the DA nor SW Super Doctrine seem super worth it, though the BA one is nice.

What do people do for troops?

I play SW, but that thread is quite dead after beeing bad for a big edition. Grey Hunters/Blood Claws are better then regular tactical squad marines IMHO. But they need transport suport. Nothing wrong with that, but they eat points out of the list.

It seems like a good idea to just take a small minimum unit of troops. Intercessor Squads in minimum numbers, perhaps with a grenade launcher seems to be cheap to just grab 3 and sitt them down in mid objectives for some honest work. While the rest 1700/1685 points of your list puts 'in the work'. Probably Heavy Interscessors could be nice to sit on home objective and shoot. (These are not out yet for sales though, is that correct?)

What do you people think?

I plan on running a 10 man unit of Incursors pretty much always. Early board domination is priceless and the support in the current codex is so efficient you won't miss those 200 pts, imo. A backbone of Eradicators and ATVs is so cheap, don't even talk about the dakka Gladiator, you can have some fun in those troops slots.

I'm thinking small 5-man squads of Intercessors backed up by like-squads of Heavy Intercessors.

I'll probably end up with a 2:1 ratio, so 10 Intercessors and 5 Heavy Intercessors backing them up.

Somewhere in there I'll find room for Incursors and Infiltrators.

So a lot of people are, understanably fixated on eradicators but it occurs to me devestators with multi melta's might be scarier. drop em behind enemy lines turn one, and slag something expensive...

BrianDavion wrote:
So a lot of people are, understanably fixated on eradicators but it occurs to me devestators with multi melta's might be scarier. drop em behind enemy lines turn one, and slag something expensive...

A few editions ago, being able to do this with one unit (via Logan) made Space Wolves a terror. Not looking forwards to facing unlimited Melta spam


Automatically Appended Next Post:

BrianDavion wrote:

 hellpato wrote:

Sotahullu wrote:

Arcanis161 wrote:
Any Primaris units, specifically Infantry units, that aren't worth taking atm?

Veteran Intercessors. Cool idea on paper but there is really nothing that makes it stand out.

Wrong... give them a chainsword and you got 51 attacks on charge for 220 pts.

now if only they could use honor the chapter

TBH I think they’re almost as much affected by losing ObSec as they are by not being able to frenzy

They’re exactly the sort of unit that can brawl their way to get within reach of an objective. One surviving Grot, Genestealer, or Cultist is enough to hold on and deny them a hill. And the new morale rules make that sort of situation more likely.

I set aside the parts to make a squad of VI’s, shoulder pads and all, but never got round to it. The idea was drum-fed bolters and chainswords (signifying their +1A), advancing and using the auto hit strat until they were able to deliver their smash sergeant. Now, chainswords on a shooty Intercessor unit would be grossly non-WYSIWYG, and the two strats that made them scary are dead. I came here to get ideas on what to do with the project and now I’m even more stumped as to what they’d be good for :/

Anyone been using massed assault intercessors?

BrianDavion wrote:
So a lot of people are, understanably fixated on eradicators but it occurs to me devestators with multi melta's might be scarier. drop em behind enemy lines turn one, and slag something expensive...

They might sound scary, until you realize a Drop Pod with 5 MM (10 shots+1 for combi) devastators cost almost 300 points, cannot arrive round 1 (in matched play) and are easily screened to deny melta range. You can get 6 Eradicators and have points left over who dish out 16 melta shots (2x multimeltas). It's not hard to get within 24" of something with current board sizes. ONLY if you can get the drop within 12" they might be better than Eradicators but missing a whole turn of shooting as a trade off don't make them very appealing to me.

Just goes to show that Eradicators are way too cheap. Add 10-20ppm per dude or lose the doubletap and they return to the realm of reasonable.

 Weazel wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
So a lot of people are, understanably fixated on eradicators but it occurs to me devestators with multi melta's might be scarier. drop em behind enemy lines turn one, and slag something expensive...

They might sound scary, until you realize a Drop Pod with 5 MM (10 shots+1 for combi) devastators cost almost 300 points, cannot arrive round 1 (in matched play) and are easily screened to deny melta range. You can get 6 Eradicators and have points left over who dish out 16 melta shots (2x multimeltas). It's not hard to get within 24" of something with current board sizes. ONLY if you can get the drop within 12" they might be better than Eradicators but missing a whole turn of shooting as a trade off don't make them very appealing to me.

Just goes to show that Eradicators are way too cheap. Add 10-20ppm per dude or lose the doubletap and they return to the realm of reasonable.

drop pods can arrive turn 1 can't they? or is there a rule I missed the latest chapter approved?

Comparing anuthing to eradicators is dumb because they are clearly undercosted. Any comparison to any unit will be bad. In fact you should probably include as many eradicators as legal and then build your list from there in a 2000 point optimal list.

Also, you seems to have missed that drop pods do in fact arrive turn 1. One of, if not the only unit who does so.

 Niiai wrote:
Comparing anuthing to eradicators is dumb because they are clearly undercosted. Any comparison to any unit will be bad. In fact you should probably include as many eradicators as legal and then build your list from there in a 2000 point optimal list.

Also, you seems to have missed that drop pods do in fact arrive turn 1. One of, if not the only unit who does so.

I need a reference on this since in the matched play rules it clearly says (can't remember verbatim) that no reinforcements or reserves may arrive on the first game round. Nothing on the Drop Pod datasheet trump this rule as far as I can tell.