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Arcanis161 wrote:
Exactly why are you trying to insult the Kreig players on this forum? You just trolling or is something legitimately bugging you about them?

Because of Kan doesn't like a concept, he'll call the entire army "trash". He personally doesn't like Rough Riders, so he doesn't think anyone should have them.

Death Korpse are straight up one of the most badass armies in 40K, and rough riders definitely need a comback.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Arcanis161 wrote:
Exactly why are you trying to insult the Kreig players on this forum? You just trolling or is something legitimately bugging you about them?

Because of Kan doesn't like a concept, he'll call the entire army "trash". He personally doesn't like Rough Riders, so he doesn't think anyone should have them.

He explained his point in his response to me; it's just a preference.

At this point it's better to leave it be rather than continue being ugly, at least for this thread.

Let's see:

Eldar range. No surprise but so many old sculpts and finecast is not a great combo.

IG. GW needs to figure out a new basic guardsman kit or kits. They are ancient, ugly, and don't allow for the various regiments.

DE. I remember in 5th when they got their revamp they looked ace and still do. That said they need more and varied HQs.

Chaos marines. Much of the range has been updated or added but we are still missing noise marines and the berserker kit is one of the oldest plastic kit in the entire GW line. Bikes look silly and other HQs are finecast or need an update.

Arcanis161 wrote:
He explained his point in his response to me; it's just a preference.

Did he though?

"We finally ditched the nonsense that was Rough Riders."

Sounds like someone who would be very angry if other players were having fun the wrong way with their non-Krieg Rough Riders.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Arcanis161 wrote:
He explained his point in his response to me; it's just a preference.

Did he though?

"We finally ditched the nonsense that was Rough Riders."

Sounds like someone who would be very angry if other players were having fun the wrong way with their non-Krieg Rough Riders.

Well we don't have Rough Riders right now, so I think now's a fine opportunity to let this go.

And as should have been clear, I miss them too.

BrianDavion wrote:
Eldar have long been powerful (more often then not while I've been playing)0 but at the same time they've ALWAYS been powerful as "gimmick lists" and if I played eldar that'd kiiinda annoy me TBH. they need a new codex that sits back and looks at the army and how it works together and how the various parts of it interlock.
Marines are powerful right now in large part because they have that

Everyone does. While I have railed against the Marine releases since 2.0 that level of options and adjustments to core functionality would be amazing if done game wide.

Shocking as it may be, but after seeing the Sisters book and the early Necron previews I am actually optimistic for the first time in ages.

Well, as many have mentioned I think Eldar should get their aspect warriors and guardians reworked.

Dark Eldar should get also get some love, mainly more HQ options and replacing failcast.

After that...I would love a few things:

Reworked Catachans but ONLY if the basic squad of 10 is like $35 or less, and the guys aren't basically monopose like a lot of the new GW stuff. They need to get back to being able to mix and match stuff from their different ranges easily, especially for Guard.

Also for the guard: Cavalry options! (I've said this for years). Light/skirmish cav with carbines, medium cav that can dash in and fight a bit, as well as shoot, and some heavy cav that carry the day (against some foes, at least), knights/cataphract type guys. I'd drop a grand with a smile to build a mostly cavalry guard army.

Another personal wish for the guard: quad heavy stubber scout sentinels.

I don't get why everyone is gakking on the Guardians?

I have no problem with the current guardians.. The weapon platform is pretty cool too so honestly don't get what the issue is, don't seem like a priority of an kind to me.
I have plenty of them and more that haven't even been removed from sprues lol

Remove guardians entirely or make a storm guardians and guardian multi part with decent rules and maybe I guess..

Pretty straight forward. Eldar are the faction that needs the next major update....New autarch variant, warlocks (attached to guardian units again too), Aspects, Phoenix Lords, Avatar, all need new models.

next up I'd probably go for a second Guard regiment, and I see that being catachans. The 2 new characters look great, could expand on this considerably.

I'd also like to see a revamp to some of the ork line, even though they got a good update with some of their models.

That's what I'd prioritize for this edition, with a spattering of HQ choices etc around (yes DE, I'm looking at you).

Kommandoz and tankbustaz in Plastic. That's my only wish

 bullyboy wrote:

next up I'd probably go for a second Guard regiment, and I see that being catachans. The 2 new characters look great, could expand on this considerably.

Eh? Do you mean for your own collection?

Catachans already are the 'second guard regiment.' Like a lot of things a the moment, they're out of stock, but they've got the full set in plastic- command squad, infantry squad, heavy weapons squad, and a 'defense force' deal, same as the Cadians.
Granted the infantry squad is old, only has the flamer as an option, and really ugly (the command and HWTs are better), but ugly is what you're paying for with Catachans.

Between the three special characters and the two 'special event' characters, GW has basically committed to keeping the Catachans around.

Though they do need to sort out the special weapons for both regiments. Metal models that don't quite fit in with the current design is weird stopgap.

Renegades and Heretics supplements for AM, AdMech and Aeldari (mostly focussed on Chaos, but leaving the option of free renegades open), no need for units or datasheets on this one, just a rules supplement. Khorne CSM and Slaanesh CSM need some more unique kits, Emperor's Children should get a Slaanesh Adepta Sororitas HQ. Chaos Daemons need more terrain and weird, creepy or scary new units. Eldar should get a sprinking of updates, updating and releasing a bajillion things for Necrons has overwhelmed me. No updated kits should be put into a box along with old kits that were not updated unless demand for that old kit is vast, I don't know if that's a radical thing to say, but the Phoenix box was silly.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Arcanis161 wrote:
Exactly why are you trying to insult the Kreig players on this forum? You just trolling or is something legitimately bugging you about them?

Because of Kan doesn't like a concept, he'll call the entire army "trash". He personally doesn't like Rough Riders, so he doesn't think anyone should have them.

And yet, on the last thread that asked what people would like to see return, guess what got the single highest number of votes?

Someone is out of step with the other people who like the faction, and is somewhat terse about it.

Voss wrote:

 bullyboy wrote:

next up I'd probably go for a second Guard regiment, and I see that being catachans. The 2 new characters look great, could expand on this considerably.

Eh? Do you mean for your own collection?

Catachans already are the 'second guard regiment.' Like a lot of things a the moment, they're out of stock, but they've got the full set in plastic- command squad, infantry squad, heavy weapons squad, and a 'defense force' deal, same as the Cadians.
Granted the infantry squad is old, only has the flamer as an option, and really ugly (the command and HWTs are better), but ugly is what you're paying for with Catachans.

Between the three special characters and the two 'special event' characters, GW has basically committed to keeping the Catachans around.

Though they do need to sort out the special weapons for both regiments. Metal models that don't quite fit in with the current design is weird stopgap.

I think you're right that, in order to refresh Catachans, you only need to rework the Infantry squad box. The Command Squad and HW Squad boxes work, as do the two new character sculpts. Heck, I even like the metal Platoon Commander (or Junior Officer, or Lef-tenant) models.

Looking at the current sprue on the GW site (as it has been a while since I saw one in person), there's a lot of wasted space in there which could see other options included. I'd like to see the end of the one-foot-on-the-ground leg pose, as that always looked awkward when built - same with the sort-of-jogging-forwards legs for the Cadians.

I'd slate the Eldar for a massive rework, on par with the Necron releases that we've been getting, but, that'd take a year or two to prep.

So, while I put the A-team on that, the focus for 2021 are small fillers for other forces. For instance, Lt-level leaders for all forces without them (like the Orks and Dark Eldar) and replacing Finecast, so you'd see a Biovore/Pyrovore kit for the Tyranid, for instance. Marines would get a unit of Servitors (eventually), and I'd try and keep the "One Imperium, one Chaos, one Xenos" loop rolling.

2022, however? Eldar. *so* *much* *Eldar*. Probably find some small opposition force to go with them, like the Necrons got the melee Primaris surge. New Chaos forces maybe? Or new Tau subraces? Tau vs Eldar could be a really interesting 2022 mix, I think.

Marines don't even have to be the badge on a Servitor box - make it an AdMech release instead, and they just happen to benefit by accident

Re The Dark Eldar

The 'new' Dark Eldar are now older than the old Dark Eldar they replaced

I still think the IG should be a higher priority than the Eldar (whether smooth or spikey). While Space Elves are not a unique idea the Eldar (or, sigh, Aeldari) have grown into something unique. But 'sorta historial, sorta near future space soliders' is not as evidenced by several 'not Guard' manufacturers out there.

Like they did with Necromunda (futurey West Side Story gangs is not a unique idea either) GW could make each IG regiment more distinct by turning them up to 11, like they did with the 2 Catachan characters.

Space Cops are not unique, but the look of the new Enforcers is.

Anyway what about Traitor Guard and Imperial Agents? There's certainly signs GW is testing the waters for both, should they be a higher priority than refreshing existing lines?

 Eldarain wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
Eldar have long been powerful (more often then not while I've been playing)0 but at the same time they've ALWAYS been powerful as "gimmick lists" and if I played eldar that'd kiiinda annoy me TBH. they need a new codex that sits back and looks at the army and how it works together and how the various parts of it interlock.
Marines are powerful right now in large part because they have that

Everyone does. While I have railed against the Marine releases since 2.0 that level of options and adjustments to core functionality would be amazing if done game wide.

Shocking as it may be, but after seeing the Sisters book and the early Necron previews I am actually optimistic for the first time in ages.

I have been saying since the sisters box came out that the SOB codex is hands down the best codex GW produced during 8th editition. the army works well together, and all the units are useful, the codex is solid but not massivly OP. The SOB codex should be the model GW follows for 9th edition codices more or less. good internal balance, good external balance, every choice feels meaningful

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
The 'new' Dark Eldar are now older than the old Dark Eldar they replaced

And look 1000 times better. Why would you want to replace them?

If they could do some plastic Mandrakes in the current style though, and 3-man plastic Grotesque kit, that'd be ace.

I would not focus on armies specifically.

My first move would be to go over all the units which were lost to legends for not having models, decide which ones will add to the game, and then release models for them - multi-part plastic models with as many options and poses as possible.

My next approach might be to release waves of thematic units for spreads of armies. So, for example, I might decide to make some units designed to rip apart elites. I would then look at which armies this theme fits and which has a missing spot for such a unit, or an unloved unit which is supposed to fill that slot, and I'd release about 3 kits for different units which are themed around ripping apart elites. Or I might be aimed at infiltrating for objectives, and re-release kommandos and a few other kits for other armies. But I wouldn't just pump out loads of kits for one army - that's never going to result in balance!

 some bloke wrote:
I would not focus on armies specifically.

My first move would be to go over all the units which were lost to legends for not having models, decide which ones will add to the game, and then release models for them - multi-part plastic models with as many options and poses as possible.

My next approach might be to release waves of thematic units for spreads of armies. So, for example, I might decide to make some units designed to rip apart elites. I would then look at which armies this theme fits and which has a missing spot for such a unit, or an unloved unit which is supposed to fill that slot, and I'd release about 3 kits for different units which are themed around ripping apart elites. Or I might be aimed at infiltrating for objectives, and re-release kommandos and a few other kits for other armies. But I wouldn't just pump out loads of kits for one army - that's never going to result in balance!

This isn't bad, but I'd start with the Marines. They're still in limbo. Even if they get the Primaris stuff that's been teased, AND the Primaris stuff they need to be viable and complete as Primaris Only (Air craft, jump fight troops, whatever else) They're still in limbo. Either make it blatantly obvious you're gonna squat, or blatantly obvious you're not. Then do the Legends.

At the same time write the codex and missions to boost varied armies and sub-subfactions. Write the Missions in such a way that you need a little bit of each kind of thing - fast movement, rapid redeploys, objective sitting, killing, etc. to max scoring across multiple missions. i.e. the skew list that might sail through this mission would absolutely crater on the two more - expecting every mission to punish all skew lists is unlikely to be successful. Write the codex to give a varied list bonuses.

Breton wrote:
This isn't bad, but I'd start with the Marines. They're still in limbo. Even if they get the Primaris stuff that's been teased, AND the Primaris stuff they need to be viable and complete as Primaris Only (Air craft, jump fight troops, whatever else) They're still in limbo. Either make it blatantly obvious you're gonna squat, or blatantly obvious you're not. Then do the Legends.

At the same time write the codex and missions to boost varied armies and sub-subfactions. Write the Missions in such a way that you need a little bit of each kind of thing - fast movement, rapid redeploys, objective sitting, killing, etc. to max scoring across multiple missions. i.e. the skew list that might sail through this mission would absolutely crater on the two more - expecting every mission to punish all skew lists is unlikely to be successful. Write the codex to give a varied list bonuses.

Please gods no. This... this is a joke, right? Have Marines not had enough attention already? Do the other factions not deserve their turn yet?
Do you really want this to turn into ANOTHER 30-page Marine-bash thread?!

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
The 'new' Dark Eldar are now older than the old Dark Eldar they replaced

And look 1000 times better. Why would you want to replace them?

If they could do some plastic Mandrakes in the current style though, and 3-man plastic Grotesque kit, that'd be ace.

That'd be awesome, but I agree we don't need to change our other kits. Just replace finecast and give us some new possibilities for HQs and Special Weapons teams.

Our problem is faction synergies and just a poorly balanced codex.

Honestly, I'd just welcome a nice period where we don't have big huge releases for anyone, just a nice pruning of finecast and outdated plastic for all factions.

In terms of major releases I'd say Eldar and Guard need it most.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Denegaar wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
The 'new' Dark Eldar are now older than the old Dark Eldar they replaced

And look 1000 times better. Why would you want to replace them?

If they could do some plastic Mandrakes in the current style though, and 3-man plastic Grotesque kit, that'd be ace.

That'd be awesome, but I agree we don't need to change our other kits. Just replace finecast and give us some new possibilities for HQs and Special Weapons teams.

Our problem is faction synergies and just a poorly balanced codex.

I do think they're in desperate need for a second HQ choice for each faction. Just the fact that you HAVE to bring 2 identical guys to field even a battalion detachment is so silly rn. If they're putting out lieutenant-equivs for skitarii and sisters drukhari need them pretty desperately if they're sticking with the split into 3 codex.

In an ideal world where Drukhari get given a GSC-style character heavy release, I'd love:

1) A mercenary coordinator HQ who can be taken by any subfaction who buffs Incubi, Scourges, Mandrakes, and Court models.
2) A wych cults Hellion HQ
3) A conversion kit that allows you to build an archon or a succubus onto a bike
4) A conversion kit that allows you to make a necron command barge style throne on a raider
5) Vect (obviously, compatible with the throne kit thingy)
6) Some kind of "master torturer" igor HQ for Coven

Breton wrote:
Write the Missions in such a way that you need a little bit of each kind of thing - fast movement, rapid redeploys, objective sitting, killing, etc. to max scoring across multiple missions. i.e. the skew list that might sail through this mission would absolutely crater on the two more - expecting every mission to punish all skew lists is unlikely to be successful. Write the codex to give a varied list bonuses.

I don't think it's fair for the player that gets pummeled by spam round 1 because the mission doesn't punish it nor is it fair for the person that pummels spam round 2 because the mission punishes it a lot. A list can have a negative impact on the meta even if it doesn't win tournaments and you shouldn't be able to pick an army that gets an easy 3/2 because you spam knowing that you won't win the tournament, but you will win most of your games. I think it is possible for every mission to punish spam. It's just a question of making spam counter secondaries good enough and the alternative secondaries bad enough that spam becomes unappealing. The last step is making sure that no units are massively undercosted such that nobody feels bad about taking a Dreadnought, a Land Raider and an Eradicator squad instead of 3 of one of them.

The mission set and core rules, need to be written in a way, that it facilitates a certain kind of list.
Whilest the army lists themselves need to be internally balanced in a way, that there aren't any auto pick options in order to stop facilitating skew.
That can happen by filling gaps in lists, such as AA capabilities with new units, or by attempting to balance a slew of units, removing autopick options either outright or bringing them back inline with other options.

Sounds like people definitely want modular HQs ala the old Marine Captain or Cadian Command Squad rather than the multipart but monopose ones we get now.

It seems that you're wanting to have infantry models for Cadians, and vostroyans, and catachan, etc? This... really shouldn't ever happen, at least not while a lot of other armies are in need of stuff.

I never actually said that. The most specific I got was "Maybe some Guard infantry units". The current range is not aging well at all and really needs a facelift. Upgrade kits aren't going to cut it when you're applying them to 20 year old sculpts ...

mostly an overhaul of finecast. but I'm of the opinion that the lack of a mega armor warboss is a crime. when I think a warboss I tend to think in big armor ala well.. gorgutz from DOW

Ah yes. The Mega Armor WB. Forgot about that one. I actually bought a Sigmar Ork to convert into one right about the time they shunted that data sheet off to legends. That is a pretty iconic unit that should probably have representation beyond legends.

This isn't bad, but I'd start with the Marines. They're still in limbo. Even if they get the Primaris stuff that's been teased, AND the Primaris stuff they need to be viable and complete as Primaris Only (Air craft, jump fight troops, whatever else) They're still in limbo. Either make it blatantly obvious you're gonna squat, or blatantly obvious you're not. Then do the Legends.

They ... they um ... that's already happened. They've made it pretty blatantly obvious old marines are going away. The only thing up in the air is "when". Primaris are in no way, shape-or-form "in limbo" and are perfectly viable now imo. I realize they don't have a flyer yet, but I really don't think they need one ...

Sounds like people definitely want modular HQs ala the old Marine Captain or Cadian Command Squad rather than the multipart but monopose ones we get now.

YES! The Chaos Lord in Terminator armor is one of my favorite kits. You can do so much with that. Every army should have access to something similar. It's a really great kit.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Sounds like people definitely want modular HQs ala the old Marine Captain or Cadian Command Squad rather than the multipart but monopose ones we get now.

its honestly the best way to make HQs. It makes no sense that the leaders of a faction can't take whatever weaponry they wish.

A blaster Archon should be legal.
A Twin spinneret rifle WarpJumpPack Autarch should be legal.
A plasma caliver Tech priest Dominus should be legal.
A missile launcher Chaos lord should be legal.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Re The Dark Eldar

The 'new' Dark Eldar are now older than the old Dark Eldar they replaced

I still think the IG should be a higher priority than the Eldar (whether smooth or spikey). While Space Elves are not a unique idea the Eldar (or, sigh, Aeldari) have grown into something unique. But 'sorta historial, sorta near future space soliders' is not as evidenced by several 'not Guard' manufacturers out there.

Like they did with Necromunda (futurey West Side Story gangs is not a unique idea either) GW could make each IG regiment more distinct by turning them up to 11, like they did with the 2 Catachan characters.

Space Cops are not unique, but the look of the new Enforcers is.

Anyway what about Traitor Guard and Imperial Agents? There's certainly signs GW is testing the waters for both, should they be a higher priority than refreshing existing lines?

I don't think so, personally. I think they have an obligation to finish the lines they've left rot for a decade or two.

Traitor guard/lotd or a new xenos army (see absolutely no point in imperial agents, there's more than enough Imperium stuff) would be nice, but this is the ideal time to get everyone back into fighting trim. There's holes to fill, and they've definitely obligated themselves to updating all the armies with weapon rules to match the imperial upgrades and wound changes.