After MOAR MARINES, what kits should GW prioritize in 2021?

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**G00fySmiley**

I know it would kind of fall into the catagory of just more marines with CSM. but I would love to see the other gods represented. we have nurgle an tzeench with death guard and thousand sons specific kits. how about some more empiror's children and world eaters options with stand alone codexes. In addition there I woudl say most has been said, replace or redo all the old eldar (S&M and Vanilla variety). plastic deff koptas, and some guard options. Tyranids could use some redos on kits but need a new codex with more gear options as they are having a rough time right now.

**bullyboy**

Voss wrote:
bullyboy wrote:

next up I'd probably go for a second Guard regiment, and I see that being catachans. The 2 new characters look great, could expand on this considerably.

Eh? Do you mean for your own collection?

Catachans already are the 'second guard regiment.' Like a lot of things a the moment, they're out of stock, but they've got the full set in plastic- command squad, infantry squad, heavy weapons squad, and a 'defense force' deal, same as the Cadians.
Granted the infantry squad is old, only has the flamer as an option, and really ugly (the command and HWTs are better), but ugly is what you're paying for with Catachans.

Between the three special characters and the two 'special event' characters, GW has basically committed to keeping the Catachans around.

Though they do need to sort out the special weapons for both regiments. Metal models that don't quite fit in with the current design is weird stopgap.

I don't have Catachans (used to when the box first came out), and I don't have the 2 new characters. I just think they look great.
I'm not aware of better HQ and hvy weapon options, so if all it takes is an infantry sqd and a character or two, even better.

My guard is cadian bodies, 3rd party heads (praetorian with gas masks), so it does not affect me at all.

**H.B.M.C.**

Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Sounds like people definitely want modular HQs ala the old Marine Captain or Cadian Command Squad rather than the multipart but monopose ones we get now.

Everyone except GW, that is.

**Kid_Kyoto**

H.B.M.C. wrote:
Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Sounds like people definitely want modular HQs ala the old Marine Captain or Cadian Command Squad rather than the multipart but monopose ones we get now.
Everyone except GW, that is.

Everyone except the only people who count yes...

Are they not aware of 3d printing and a million and one artists who take commissions?

**H.B.M.C.**

Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Everyone except the only people who count yes...

Are they not aware of 3d printing and a million and one artists who take commissions?

I'd like to point to the recent SoB Canoness release, as whilst the pose isn't really something you can change, it does have quite a few options.

But GW are about to release the "Captain with Master-crafted Heavy Bolt Rifle", as in, that's what it's called. Not a Captain, to which you can give a Heavy Bolt Rifle. No, it is actually listed in the rules on the contents page of the new Codex as "Captain with Master-crafted Heavy Bolt Rifle", so couldn't be more optionless if you tried.

**Kid_Kyoto**

H.B.M.C. wrote:
Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Everyone except the only people who count yes...

Are they not aware of 3d printing and a million and one artists who take commissions?
I'd like to point to the recent SoB Canoness release, as whilst the pose isn't really something you can change, it does have quite a few options.

But GW are about to release the "Captain with Master-crafted Heavy Bolt Rifle", as in, that's what it's called. Not a Captain, to which you can give a Heavy Bolt Rifle. No, it is actually listed in the rules on the contents page of the new Codex as "Captain with Master-crafted Heavy Bolt Rifle", so couldn't be more optionless if you tried.

Maybe I could use a hobby knife to cut off the purity seal and thereby make a Captain with a mere Heavy Bolt Rifle?

Arg.

Does anyone like this $%^&? Does anyone really care about persnickety little differences among marine weapons? Or other weapons even?

From RT the game had the idea that it didn't matter if you have an M-16 or an AK-47, or a Mars Pattern lasgun or a Cadian Pattern. There's a hundred guys on the field and guns that shoot weaponized black holes. No one cares that you had your pistol rebored to fire .44 rounds.

But now we're supposed to care deeply about whether a bolter has this grubbing or that grubbing instead of which gun looks best.

**Ice_can**

Kid_Kyoto wrote:
H.B.M.C. wrote:
Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Everyone except the only people who count yes...

Are they not aware of 3d printing and a million and one artists who take commissions?
I'd like to point to the recent SoB Canoness release, as whilst the pose isn't really something you can change, it does have quite a few options.

But GW are about to release the "Captain with Master-crafted Heavy Bolt Rifle", as in, that's what it's called. Not a Captain, to which you can give a Heavy Bolt Rifle. No, it is actually listed in the rules on the contents page of the new Codex as "Captain with Master-crafted Heavy Bolt Rifle", so couldn't be more optionless if you tried.

Maybe I could use a hobby knife to cut off the purity seal and thereby make a Captain with a mere Heavy Bolt Rifle?

Arg.

Does anyone like this $%^&? Does anyone really care about persnickety little differences among marine weapons? Or other weapons even?

From RT the game had the idea that it didn't matter if you have an M-16 or an AK-47, or a Mars Pattern lasgun or a Cadian Pattern. There's a hundred guys on the field and guns that shoot weaponized black holes. No one cares that you had your pistol rebored to fire .44 rounds.

But now we're supposed to care deeply about whether a bolter has this grubbing or that grubbing instead of which gun looks best.

It's all about the TradeMark Copyright life, much harder to not be infringing on GW's BS when they make it 20 layers of nonsense deep.

**vict0988**

VladimirHerzog wrote:
Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Sounds like people definitely want modular HQs ala the old Marine Captain or Cadian Command Squad rather than the multipart but monopose ones we get now.

its honestly the best way to make HQs. It makes no sense that the leaders of a faction can't take whatever weaponry they wish.

A blaster Archon should be legal.
A Twin spinneret rifle WarpJumpPack Autarch should be legal.
A plasma caliver Tech priest Dominus should be legal.
A missile launcher Chaos lord should be legal.

I don't think that makes sense, does it make sense a Chaos Lord picks up a missile launcher for a specific scenario? Yes. Should missile launcher Chaos Lords be the standard? No. Do I trust GW to cost missile launchers and every other silly loadout for Chaos Lords so high that they don't become standard? No. If you don't want to see something in the game it shouldn't be available, you can't and shouldn't trust pts to engineer fluffy armies. If you want to play casual games with a missile launcher Chaos Lord I don't mind, but I don't want everyone to bring it. On top of that it is perfectly possible that a Company Commander cannot be part of a Heavy Weapon team or carry a missile launcher on his own and still perform his regular duties, certain Tau weapons might not fit on the XV8 battlesuit and so shouldn't be options for Commanders.

**Breton**

Super Ready wrote:

Please gods no. This... this is a joke, right? Have Marines not had enough attention already? Do the other factions not deserve their turn yet?
Do you really want this to turn into ANOTHER 30-page Marine-bash thread?!

Nope. Just get it over with. Whatever they’re going to do just do it, finish it, and be done with it. Doing 2-3 months of releases spread out over six would be worse.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

vict0988 wrote:
Breton wrote:
Write the Missions in such a way that you need a little bit of each kind of thing - fast movement, rapid redeploys, objective sitting, killing, etc. to max scoring across multiple missions. i.e. the skew list that might sail through this mission would absolutely crater on the two more - expecting every mission to punish all skew lists is unlikely to be successful. Write the codex to give a varied list bonuses.

I don't think it's fair for the player that gets pummeled by spam round 1 because the mission doesn't punish it nor is it fair for the person that pummels spam round 2 because the mission punishes it a lot. A list can have a negative impact on the meta even if it doesn't win tournaments and you shouldn't be able to pick an army that gets an easy 3/2 because you spam knowing that you won't win the tournament, but you will win most of your games. I think it is possible for every mission to punish spam. It's just a question of making spam counter secondaries good enough and the alternative secondaries bad enough that spam becomes unappealing. The last step is making sure that no units are massively undercosted such that nobody feels bad about taking a Dreadnought, a Land Raider and an Eradicator squad instead of 3 of one of them.

There’s always going to be a spam list that can/does hit the high points of one mission. I’d like to see a return to random secondaries, or wild mix and match pre selected secondaries that can’t be doubled up by doing the primary really well, and actually require risking the primary.

**VladimirHerzog**

vict0988 wrote:
VladimirHerzog wrote:
Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Sounds like people definitely want modular HQs ala the old Marine Captain or Cadian Command Squad rather than the multipart but monopose ones we get now.

its honestly the best way to make HQs. It makes no sense that the leaders of a faction can't take whatever weaponry they wish.

A blaster Archon should be legal.
A Twin spinneret rifle WarpJumpPack Autarch should be legal.
A plasma caliver Tech priest Dominus should be legal.
A missile launcher Chaos lord should be legal.

I don't think that makes sense, does it make sense a Chaos Lord picks up a missile launcher for a specific scenario? Yes. Should missile launcher Chaos Lords be the standard? No. Do I trust GW to cost missile launchers and every other silly loadout for Chaos Lords so high that they don't become standard? No. If you don't want to see something in the game it shouldn't be available, you can't and shouldn't trust pts to engineer fluffy armies. If you want to play casual games with a missile launcher Chaos Lord I don't mind, but I don't want everyone to bring it. On top of that it is perfectly possible that a Company Commander cannot be part of a Heavy Weapon team or carry a missile launcher on his own and still perform his regular duties, certain Tau weapons might not fit on the XV8 battlesuit and so shouldn't be options for Commanders.

thats what im saying. Having options would be fun to build more custom characters instead of being forced into a specific loadout that doesn't fit the narrative. The chaos lord example was far fetched, i agree. But in the lore, Autarchs are dudes that have mastered every type of warfare the aspects have so them bringing the gear of a warp spider or of dark reapers makes sense and is fluffy. On the tabletop tho: grenade and sword. And you can only pick up a fusion pistol if you also take wings. Its so stupid.

Obviously i'm approaching it with a fluffy mindset. There will always be one loadout that is the best but thats still better than being forced in a single loadout and even the models that already have multiple options (Chaos lords and Captains) only one or two loadouts are useable.

**grouchoben**

My answer is simple: TROOPS!

Every faction in 40k should have access to a modern, option-stuffed kit with which to build their troops. Everything else in the game goes on pause until that's sorted, imo.

This is because troops make up such a large proportion not only of a lot of lists, but a faction's personality, and baseline for bits and conversions.

Ork boyz, for example. Godawful and conservatively designed kit that needs replacing.

Eldar Guardians stink, storm guardian sprue is some kind of joke, and rangers, let's not go there.

Gaunts are underpar and poorly designed for their frame, with a join running down their most prominent feature.

SM Scouts should either be given a decent sculpt or squatted. And if tacs are staying, they need a new kit more in line with DW/TS size firstborn: guys need to stop skipping leg day.

Guard get two boxes, with options for two different regiments in each, or the like, plus upgrade sprues.

CSM get a super-cool cultists box, new noise marines and new zerkers.

This may all sound pie in the sky, but we're only talking 11 releases and a couple of blisterpack sprues here. GW need to do some foundation work and stop with their primaris castles in the sky, if only for one release quarter.

**bfdhud**

I think GW should only release marine kits from now on.

It's obviously their best seller / favorite faction. Plenty of people will play 40k no matter what. The endless salt mines GW's inane release schedule creates would evaporate overnight.

They can even rebrand it.. Warhammer 30k

--

A more serious reply

I would rather see them stop releasing new gak and get their current range up to the same standard as their newer kits.

I would also like to see them slow down the new shiny plastic and work on releasing a good ruleset. A living ruleset sounds nice in theory, but in practice it generates bloat and confusion and eventually people give up on trying to keep up.

Then maybe expand the ranges.

**SamusDrake**

G00fySmiley wrote:
Tyranids could use some redos on kits but need a new codex with more gear options as they are having a rough time right now.

Would like to see revisions of the Lictor, Deathleaper, Red Terror and Carnifex kits.

**Super Ready**

Breton wrote:
Nope. Just get it over with. Whatever they’re going to do just do it, finish it, and be done with it. Doing 2-3 months of releases spread out over six would be worse.

Ah, ok. When you put it like that, that makes a lot more sense. And hopefully, with the aggressive Codex supplement releases, that's what we're going to see... but... well, we'll see.

**SamusDrake**

grouchoben wrote:
My answer is simple: TROOPS!

Every faction in 40k should have access to a modern, option-stuffed kit with which to build their troops. Everything else in the game goes on pause until that's sorted, imo.

This is because troops make up such a large proportion not only of a lot of lists, but a faction's personality, and baseline for bits and conversions.

Ork boyz, for example. Godawful and conservatively designed kit that needs replacing.

Eldar Guardians stink, storm guardian sprue is some kind of joke, and rangers, let's not go there.

Gaunts are underpar and poorly designed for their frame, with a join running down their most prominent feature.

SM Scouts should either be given a decent sculpt or squatted. And if tacs are staying, they need a new kit more in line with DW/TS size firstborn: guys need to stop skipping leg day.

Guard get two boxes, with options for two different regiments in each, or the like, plus upgrade sprues.

CSM get a super-cool cultists box, new noise marines and new zerkers.

This may all sound pie in the sky, but we're only talking 11 releases and a couple of blisterpack sprues here. GW need to do some foundation work and stop with their primaris castles in the sky, if only for one release quarter.

Agreed with getting basic troops in order, as also they form the majority of Kill Team units. £36 for some storm guardians is totally bonkers.

**Xenomancers**

Continuing with the all the aspect warriors would be a great place to start.

A new asrta militarium vehical line would be great too.

**Tycho**

A new asrta militarium vehical line would be great too.

What would you be looking for? Are you thinking revamps of existing models, or actual never-before-seen, new vehicles?

**Voss**

Super Ready wrote:
Breton wrote:
Nope. Just get it over with. Whatever they’re going to do just do it, finish it, and be done with it. Doing 2-3 months of releases spread out over six would be worse.

Ah, ok. When you put it like that, that makes a lot more sense. And hopefully, with the aggressive Codex supplement releases, that's what we're going to see... but... well, we'll see.

If multipart outriders don't come next month, I fully expect to see them with the Dark Angels supplement in January or February.
By contrast, I don't expect anything alongside the BA/SW/DW supplements, beyond maybe reworked accessories sprues (shoulder pads, etc). It's why I think the DA supplement isn't coming until next year, to be honest, so the outriders and other strays have a book to go on sale with.

**Billagio**

Orks need a standalone warboss model badly.

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Ork-Warboss-with-Big-Choppa

This is the only Warboss you can buy by himself (and hes metal). Grukk you can only buy with his nobz squad.

**Hecaton**

Billagio wrote:
Orks need a standalone warboss model badly.

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Ork-Warboss-with-Big-Choppa

This is the only Warboss you can buy by himself (and hes metal). Grukk you can only buy with his nobz squad.

Why would they do that when they can make more Primaris Lieutenants?

**Super Ready**

Voss wrote:
By contrast, I don't expect anything alongside the BA/SW/DW supplements, beyond maybe reworked accessories sprues (shoulder pads, etc). It's why I think the DA supplement isn't coming until next year, to be honest, so the outriders and other strays have a book to go on sale with.

I could see the Outriders coming first and then a Ravenwing upgrade sprue later. Deathwing of course are pretty much already sorted.
The one thing I might expect to see with the BA/DA/SW Codices is the last of the Finecast models updated - which at this point is basically just special characters (Dante, Lukas, Azrael et al). I wonder, though, if they'll actually come out alongside the books...?

**A.T.**

H.B.M.C. wrote:
I'd like to point to the recent SoB Canoness release, as whilst the pose isn't really something you can change, it does have quite a few options.

The SoB canoness is a bizarre one as GW were even more ultra-restrictive than usual with their loadout - like having to exchange your boltpistol for a boltgun if you wanted to take a power sword... and then being forced to take a rod of office because reasons?

**Irbis**

In no particular order, factions that need releases the most are Deathwatch, IG, Tyranids and Inquisition. Maybe something Ynnari, too.

Daemons need nothing, but I'd make exception for daemonettes that aren't shambling, ugly zombies.

H.B.M.C. wrote:
Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Sounds like people definitely want modular HQs ala the old Marine Captain or Cadian Command Squad rather than the multipart but monopose ones we get now.
Everyone except GW, that is.

Yup, because new canoness and that DA dude were released by FFG

Billagio wrote:
This is the only Warboss you can buy by himself (and hes metal). Grukk you can only buy with his nobz squad.

Or you know, buy AoS boss, cut off hand, and put spare klaw on it - takes seconds...

Orks are among the faction that need new releases the least beside kommandos, AoS covers what else they lack almost perfectly.

**Billagio**

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Irbis wrote:

Billagio wrote:
This is the only Warboss you can buy by himself (and hes metal). Grukk you can only buy with his nobz squad.

Or you know, buy AoS boss, cut off hand, and put spare klaw on it - takes seconds...

Orks are among the faction that need new releases the least beside kommandos, AoS covers what else they lack almost perfectly.

Yeah I love having to cannibalize other games models because GW cant be bothered to support 40k orks with a proper warboss HQ. Dont get me wrong, conversions are central to ork players but it should be done because someone wanted to get creative or save money, not because GW doesnt have a modern model for a key unit. Dont you think its a little embarassing that the only single model HQ you can buy in a store is the wartrike? How are you supposed to get someone new into orks when thats the only HQ available when they come into the store? The start collecting set doesnt even have an HQ

**Hecaton**

Billagio wrote:
Automatically Appended Next Post:

Irbis wrote:

Billagio wrote:
This is the only Warboss you can buy by himself (and hes metal). Grukk you can only buy with his nobz squad.

Or you know, buy AoS boss, cut off hand, and put spare klaw on it - takes seconds...

Orks are among the faction that need new releases the least beside kommandos, AoS covers what else they lack almost perfectly.

Yeah I love having to cannibalize other games models because GW cant be bothered to support 40k orks with a proper warboss HQ. Dont get me wrong, conversions are central to ork players but it should be done because someone wanted to get creative or save money, not because GW doesnt have a modern model for a key unit. Dont you think its a little embarassing that the only single model HQ you can buy in a store is the wartrike? How are you supposed to get someone new into orks when thats the only HQ available when they come into the store? The start collecting set doesnt even have an HQ

Simple, you tell them to start collecting Primaris (TM) Adeptus Astartes (TM) so they can have a supported miniature line. Then when GW sees more people are buying Primaris, they'll make more Primaris...

**Sumilidon**

Eldar aspect warriors. No doubt. They still sell sculpts that have been around for a good 25 years and it’s a part of the army that has been mostly useless for a long time compared to the rest of the army.

Then they need to add some more Space Marines. A good few days will have passed since the last release and we will all be in withdrawal, shaking in our seats, sweating and rocking back and forth without our hourly imperium shot.

**H.B.M.C.**

grouchoben wrote:
Ork boyz, for example. Godawful and conservatively designed kit that needs replacing.

This came up in a thread recently and it bears repeating:

Be careful what you wish for.

Other than being quite hyperbolic to call the Ork Boyz kit "godawful", any replacement is sure to be in the current style of GW kit, meaning we'll ger 10 wonderful dynamically posed but utterly optionless minis that will look good in a group of 10, but once repeated 3 times each in a mob will start to look a little weird. There might not even be enough of weapon type (shoota/choppa & sluggaz) to equip the entire unit with one type. And all sorts of other limitations that come with GW's "modern" kits.

Irbis wrote:
Yup, because new canoness and that DA dude were released by FFG

Your reading comprehension skills leave a lot to be desired...

**catbarf**

H.B.M.C. wrote:
Other than being quite hyperbolic to call the Ork Boyz kit "godawful", any replacement is sure to be in the current style of GW kit, meaning we'll ger 10 wonderful dynamically posed but utterly optionless minis that will look good in a group of 10, but once repeated 3 times each in a mob will start to look a little weird. There might not even be enough of weapon type (shoota/choppa & sluggaz) to equip the entire unit with one type. And all sorts of other limitations that come with GW's "modern" kits.

Point well taken, but I'd like to point out that Indomitus actually comes with enough guns to equip its Necron Warriors with all of either option, and that's an ETB starter set of all things. Maybe it's indicative of a change, maybe not.

Personally, while I recognize that most players seem to hold the Ork Boyz kit in high regard, for me the bowed posing on Boyz is a real deterrent to starting Orks.

**epronovost**

Imperial Guards, both main eldar factions and orks are the armies that are in need of some revamp.

The Eldars certainly have the most work to do if only because the Craftworld line is enormous and practically antique. Pretty much every single non-vehicle, non wraith unit is in need of a revamp (except the windrider jetbikes)

Dark Eldars mostly need new units, characters and a revamp of their last two or three finecast models.

Imperial Guards need infantry units model. Their elite auxilaries and vehicles are mostly fine.

**cody.d.**

H.B.M.C. wrote:
Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Everyone except the only people who count yes...

Are they not aware of 3d printing and a million and one artists who take commissions?
I'd like to point to the recent SoB Canoness release, as whilst the pose isn't really something you can change, it does have quite a few options.

But GW are about to release the "Captain with Master-crafted Heavy Bolt Rifle", as in, that's what it's called. Not a Captain, to which you can give a Heavy Bolt Rifle. No, it is actually listed in the rules on the contents page of the new Codex as "Captain with Master-crafted Heavy Bolt Rifle", so couldn't be more optionless if you tried.

That Dark Angels captain that could be built as either a named character or a unnamed captain with an okay amount of options was also pretty good. I reckon a few people would be okay with more like that?

Just wish they could design the unit entry in such a way that it didn't generate 6 different unit options much like space marine captains.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

catbarf wrote:
H.B.M.C. wrote:
Other than being quite hyperbolic to call the Ork Boyz kit "godawful", any replacement is sure to be in the current style of GW kit, meaning we'll ger 10 wonderful dynamically posed but utterly optionless minis that will look good in a group of 10, but once repeated 3 times each in a mob will start to look a little weird. There might not even be enough of weapon type (shoota/choppa & sluggaz) to equip the entire unit with one type. And all sorts of other limitations that come with GW's "modern" kits.

Point well taken, but I'd like to point out that Indomitus actually comes with enough guns to equip its Necron Warriors with all of either option, and that's an ETB starter set of all things. Maybe it's indicative of a change, maybe not.

Personally, while I recognize that most players seem to hold the Ork Boyz kit in high regard, for me the bowed posing on Boyz is a real deterrent to starting Orks.

Also something in the ork boy kits favour. Every model in the same weight class that came out after was interchangeable. So you could create some unique models by combining boyz bits with stormboyz weapons, use extra bodies for lootas or burnas, give some nice flare with biker bits.

We may lose that option with a new boyz kit. (though if they gave us a new boyz kit that was built sorta like the nobs with different torsos supplied with a wealth of arms and heads i'd be pretty estatic and would bother to pick up half a dozen in all likelihood.)