Inside Imperial Armour: Compendium (or not inside...)

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**Abaddon303**

I'm not hopeful that this is gonna be a mistake. I just don't understand why they would explicitly reference the restrictions in the CSM codex if they didn't want you to follow them.

I think having a separate death guard section and datasheet for the GBD is further evidence thatt this restriction is intentional.

There are a lot of mistakes in the book though as usual. The xiphon datasheet has the profile for Hunter killer missiles but no option to take them

**Jidmah**

I agree, but the rules don't actually work that way right now. We also need to keep in mind that the wording on <LEGION> can change with 9th edition's CSM codex.

**Gadzilla666**

Jidmah wrote:
Gadzilla666 wrote:
Jidmah is referring to the FAQ for the previous index. It says that any fw chaos unit in it with the <MARK OF CHAOS> keyword can taken by any Legion, including 1ksons and DG. You just replace the keyword with the appropriate god, and add your Legion in place of the generic <HERETIC ASTARTES>. One would assume that's still in effect until told otherwise. There will have to be a new FAQ soon, as this book is full of issues. Add the two versions of the Fellblade having different damage values for its HE shells (D3 for Loyalist Scum, D2 for the Legions) and all of the Legion Super Heavys losing Steel Behemoth to the list, though the latter could be intentional.

No, I am not. I'm referring to the rules as written in the new FW book and Codex: Chaos Space Marines. Codex: Chaos Space Marines does not put any limitation on the <LEGION> keyword for any datasheets not printed inside that codex.

Exact wording (FW book):

"This is a keyword you can select for yourself, following the guidance and restrictions detailed in Codex: Chaos Space Marines."

Codex CSM:
"The DEATH GUARD, THOUSAND SONS and FALLEN deviate significantly in terms of organisation and fighting styles. As a result, you cannot choose one of these keywords when determining which Legion a unit in this codex is from. The rules and abilities for the Death Guard and Thousand Sons Legions are detailed in their own codexes, and both of the datasheets that describe the forces of the Fallen can be found later in this book."

I stand corrected. Hopefully that will remain RAW, as well as the rules from the FAQ, so that 1ksons and Death Guard can use these units if they want.

Has anyone gotten a good look at the Land Raider Proteus? I think I'm seeing a purchasable invul: HEAVY ARMOUR 15 points 5++. Am I seeing that right or just hallucinating?

Edit: Confirmed. HEAVY ARMOUR, 5++ for the Proteus, but you can't have it and the Accursed Phylactory (which appears to have been renamed into something easier to spell) at the same time. So why would you ever want to use a standard Land Raider?

**H.B.M.C.**

And now what we've all been waiting for:

Legends!

**mortar_crew**

H.B.M.C. wrote:
And now what we've all been waiting for:

Legends!

Indeed!

R&H covered!!

Griffon is here!

Eldar corsairs!!

**H.B.M.C.**

I'm amazed. It's not a slapdash copypasta job. The Heavy Flamer on the Repressor has a 12" range. They updated it. Well done GW.

And I'm beyond surprised that all those model-less Marine characters got rules.

**Abaddon303**

Yeh the regular LR is 285pts. The LR Proteus with 2x Twin Las and Twin HB is also 285pts. You get a few extra weapon options to swap out the heavy bolters for and the option to spend 15pts on a 5++. It costs a CP also as it's a relic.
In 8th I would have questioned the need for a 5++, lascannons etc you were saving on a 5+ anyway, but the new melta proliferation in 9th makes it interesting.
Is it worth 15pts and a CP though? I think I'd rather spend 2CP on disgustingly resilient for my Death Guard.

What I think is really interesting is the Achilles. There's no relic CP cost and for 320pts it has the 5++ baked in and comes stock with a quad launcher and 2 twin volkite culverins. And if you want to be really obscene you can swap the two culverins for two twin multi-meltas so you're putting out a total of 12 S8 shots...

**Sterling191**

These Legends rules...are actually damn good.

**mortar_crew**

Pretty impressive.

Datasheets are actually well made.

**JNAProductions**

mortar_crew wrote:
Pretty impressive.

Datasheets are actually well made.

Eh...

The Mortis Dread lists an Inferno Cannon on wargear that it cannot equip.
Samus has an option to replace a weapon it doesn't have.

And that's just what I've seen so far. So not perfect, for sure.

**Jidmah**

The new document also settles the discussion at the start of the page - the option to replace <LEGION> with Death Guard has moved to legends.

**spiralingcadaver**

H.B.M.C. wrote:
I'm amazed. It's not a slapdash copypasta job.

To some degree. Already noticed that the Lamenters chapter master (Phoros) has stealth armor since he was after the Raptors' one (Issadon)...

**puma713**

Jidmah wrote:
The new document also settles the discussion at the start of the page - the option to replace <LEGION> with Death Guard has moved to legends.

Nail in the coffin of the Drill -> Blight Grenade Bomb.

Also DG Leviathans.

**Not Online!!!**

mortar_crew wrote:
Pretty impressive.

Datasheets are actually well made.

milita is 6ppm... WTF....
This is a hackjob.

**Sgt. Cortez**

puma713 wrote:
Jidmah wrote:
The new document also settles the discussion at the start of the page - the option to replace <LEGION> with Death Guard has moved to legends.

Nail in the coffin of the Drill -> Blight Grenade Bomb. Also DG Leviathans.

Why? It says how to handle the Legion keyword for DG so you can use all the Legion models again except for Rapiers. That's good, no?

**Jidmah**

Unless you are a tournament/league player. Legends is usually banned from those

**puma713**

Sgt. Cortez wrote:
puma713 wrote:
Jidmah wrote:
The new document also settles the discussion at the start of the page - the option to replace <LEGION> with Death Guard has moved to legends.

Nail in the coffin of the Drill -> Blight Grenade Bomb. Also DG Leviathans.

Why? It says how to handle the Legion keyword for DG so you can use all the Legion models again except for Rapiers. That's good, no?

Jidmah wrote:Unless you are a tournament/league player. Legends is usually banned from those

Yes, sorry. They're out for competitive.

**Abaddon303**

I suspect the introduction of <bubonic astartes> and <arcana astartes> keywords probably means DG will lose the heretic astartes keyword in the new book and therefore many of the shared synergy they enjoy with regular CSM. No more warptime etc?

**Gadzilla666**

puma713 wrote:
Sgt. Cortez wrote:
puma713 wrote:
Jidmah wrote:
The new document also settles the discussion at the start of the page - the option to replace <LEGION> with Death Guard has moved to legends.

Nail in the coffin of the Drill -> Blight Grenade Bomb. Also DG Leviathans.

Why? It says how to handle the Legion keyword for DG so you can use all the Legion models again except for Rapiers. That's good, no?

Jidmah wrote:Unless you are a tournament/league player. Legends is usually banned from those

Yes, sorry. They're out for competitive.

Why? Death Guard and Thousand Sons are still Legions, they should have Legion units. All of the snowflake marines get access to their fw units. This looks worse and worse for Chaos.

**Pyroalchi**

The Tauros Venator Twin Multilaser has 3 shots, lol. But apart from that mostly nice updates to keep the units working

Edit: this referred to the legends

**Not Online!!!**

just for funzies i went through the R&H list....

Warning strong language:

Spoiler:

Conclusion:

you couldn't even bother to give back some flavour of IA 13, instead we got a Index 8th somehow WORSE functionality for a collectors army . You actively achieved to make it simultaniously WORSE to play against, because i am sure somewhere some donkey-cave decides to coven smite spam, and field all the bloody quad launchers he can, whilest also making the regular R&H player basically also worse off with the nonsense that is the equipment and pts cost for the regular actually intersting units of a R&H army.

feth you GW. sincerly , i hope the donkey-cave that wrote this list has a seriously bad day. this is supposed to be a farwell, with no replacement option in sight that is worth that name. I hope the added ressources to develop primaris leutnants is fething worth it.

**Slinky**

Not happy to see DKOK Grenadiers relegated to Legends, as that seems to indicate they won't ever come back into production :(

**puma713**

Gadzilla666 wrote:
puma713 wrote:

Spoiler:

Sgt. Cortez wrote:
puma713 wrote:
Jidmah wrote:
The new document also settles the discussion at the start of the page - the option to replace <LEGION> with Death Guard has moved to legends.

Nail in the coffin of the Drill -> Blight Grenade Bomb. Also DG Leviathans.

Why? It says how to handle the Legion keyword for DG so you can use all the Legion models again except for Rapiers. That's good, no?

Jidmah wrote:Unless you are a tournament/league player. Legends is usually banned from those

Yes, sorry. They're out for competitive.

Why? Death Guard and Thousand Sons are still Legions, they should have Legion units. All of the snowflake marines get access to their fw units. This looks worse and worse for Chaos.

Because the new Legends document says that any datasheet using Death Guard or Thousand Sons as its <Legion> are considered Legends. So, you can use a Terrax-Pattern Termite, but if you give it the Death Guard <Legion>, it becomes Legend.

**hotsauceman1**

Are we sure the Compendium doesnt have the same rule.

**puma713**

hotsauceman1 wrote:
Are we sure the Compendium doesnt have the same rule.

It calls out the Compendium in that paragraph:

However, it looks like they just changed the paragraph (within the last hour)

:

**Gadzilla666**

Not Online!!! wrote:just for funzies i went through the R&H list....

Warning strong language:

Spoiler:

Covenant of chaos is now a general generic gakky former khorne covenant... yeah S 4 for getting charged or charging or heroic intervention... I guess get fethed any non Khorne R&H players...

Commander: 35 pts for an ignore attriton modifiers aura.. so 5 ppm more for worse?

Malefic lord: You know what people hated? Smite bots, so how bout we make him a only smite bot, that's right NO MORE R&H psy, but now 30 ppm cheaper. feth you GW

Rogue psyker coven: You know what people hated, Smite bots, have this allways smiting bot group for 35 pts, EACH WITH 3 W. ARE YOU STUPID GW?

Renegade cultists: Strictly better then regular CSM cultists: For 5 PPM. on behalf of any CSM player: feth you gw.

Militia Squad: OH Wow GW realised that it overpriced the squad, HOW ABOUT WE DO IT AGAIN. 6 PPM For a worse Guardsmen with worse morale and Armor? Atleast now WS and BS 4 + but still gak and nowhere near IA13 status.

Btw: here comes the Chaos sigil, a shity reroll 1 for charging or charged melee status, FOR 10 PPM on S3(4) bodies...

Renegade mutant rabble: Nerfed in squad size, morale , got better mutations... 7PPM for a worse then Militia unit...

Renegade Command squad: Nerfed morale, nerfed fanatic, banners are bad. SV nerfed. still WS BS 3+ for 6 pts. So why'd people even bother with militia? or Mutants for that matter? Also no more command vox because of course!

Renegade disciple squad: Yay it got a champ, therefore morale is back to ONLY SLIGHTLY UNDER THE AVERAGE OF THE LAST ALLREADY BAD ITERATION. 7ppm?
it's excactly the same as the fething command disciples but it's one ppm more... feth you GW.

Enforcer: No more auto morale on d3 dead, infact he doesn't even execute anymore, got a price drop ? Better morale rule... Hell he might even be worth it now without the blob build but still lost alot of flavour...

Marauders: Now stalkers and murder cultists at the same time, also only unit with an SV4+ in the whole fething army still 9ppm for a disciple body is overpriced even with the tac on rules though. Atleast the brutes now are hitting half decent... also no more mercs so their morale now is conventional.

Ogryn beashandlers are wierd now, the more dogs you use the cheaper .. on average because min 1 ogryn and beast for 15 ppm regardless what you get? WHO THE feth LET THE INTERN WRITE THAT?

Berzerkers got nerfed, in regards to drugs and have no more champion

Chaos Spawn is now 23 ppm...with the covenant.. yeah that is really fething cheap..

Renegade heavy weapons squad: Basically like milita overpriced.... Until you realise that a clown aded a special equipment entry for the heavy weapons squad, yeah, they get a quad launcher for 35 ppm. you get a quad launcher team for 47 ppm....

Conclusion:

you couldn't even bother to give back some flavour of IA 13, instead we got a Index 8th somehow WORSE functionality for a collectors army . You actively achieved to make it simultaniously WORSE to play against, because i am sure somewhere some donkey-cave decides to coven smite spam, and field all the bloody quad launchers he can, whilest also making the regular R&H player basically also worse off with the nonsense that is the equipment and pts cost for the regular actually intersting units of a R&H army.

feth you GW. sincerly , i hope the donkey-cave that wrote this list has a seriously bad day. this is supposed to be a farwell, with no replacement option in sight that is worth that name. I hope the added ressources to develop primaris leutnants is fething worth it.

I concur.

puma713 wrote:
Gadzilla666 wrote:
puma713 wrote:

Spoiler:

Sgt. Cortez wrote:
puma713 wrote:
Jidmah wrote:
The new document also settles the discussion at the start of the page - the option to replace <LEGION> with Death Guard has moved to legends.

Nail in the coffin of the Drill -> Blight Grenade Bomb. Also DG Leviathans.

Why? It says how to handle the Legion keyword for DG so you can use all the Legion models again except for Rapiers. That's good, no?

Jidmah wrote:Unless you are a tournament/league player. Legends is usually banned from those

Yes, sorry. They're out for competitive.

Why? Death Guard and Thousand Sons are still Legions, they should have Legion units. All of the snowflake marines get access to their fw units. This looks worse and worse for Chaos.

Because the new Legends document says that any datasheet using Death Guard or Thousand Sons as its <Legion> are considered Legends. So, you can use a Terrax-Pattern Termite, but if you give it the Death Guard <Legion>, it becomes Legend.

Yeah, I get that. That was my point: why? Why do Death Guard and Thousand Sons only get to use Legion units as Legends? Are they separating the Legions that much? They didn't do this to the Loyalist Dogs.

**Prometheum5**

spiralingcadaver wrote:
H.B.M.C. wrote:
I'm amazed. It's not a slapdash copypasta job.
To some degree. Already noticed that the Lamenters chapter master (Phoros) has stealth armor since he was after the Raptors' one (Issadon)...

Yeah, I've got to think that's a mistake considering he runs around with a giant chain-glaive super killing people. The question now is, what does FAQ support look like for Legends? They're meant to be a one-and-done never to be updated again, but do they still get a one-time errata?

**Irbis**

Crimson wrote:
H.B.M.C. wrote:
Not Online!!! wrote:
because you could have a singular dread entry, with an option to upgrade into either?
And what benefit is there to this other than saving page space?

Weren't you earlier (understandably) complaining about silly duplication of some primaris units in the new marine codex (such as the gravis captains) instead of making them one datasheet with options? Same thing.

Gravis captains, maybe. Complaining about ironclad vs regular dread is just dumb, though. Two units with different statlines, purposes, weapons (to the point nothing except bolter you can attach to CCW is shared on both lists) - you might as well call for necrons and eldar to be rolled into one entry, would be equally bright idea.

Red Corsair wrote:
Currently marines can cheat the rule of three in an incredible amount of areas just due to the sheer volume of data sheets they have that are pretty redundant.

I mean, Jesus Christ, the new land speeders and predators are each 3 separate datasheets rather then having upgrades listed meaning you can take 9 of either (more if the speeders are squadrons).

Or maybe, just maybe, these particular sheets are duplicated so you can play fluffy lists. Did that simple thought occur to you?

There are chapters fielding armored companies. SM army list with 2x autocannon predator, 2x las predator with some tacs in rhinos doesn't break the game. It does allow for fluffy IH or AC force though. Ditto for speeders, these are main support for assault company. Last time I checked, no land speeder in the game was broken, too (besides usual FW crap, one model is being spammed on tournaments right now). Being able to play fluffy, non-OP lists is bad how again?

**Sgt. Cortez**

puma713 wrote:
hotsauceman1 wrote:
Are we sure the Compendium doesnt have the same rule.

However, it looks like they just changed the paragraph (within the last hour) :

This is really stupid if true. Unless they add the paragraph again to an IA Compendium FaQ. GW at its best...

**H.B.M.C.**

I like how non-committal GW are to the legality of these rules.

"You can use these in matched, narrative and open play, but they're not meant for competitive play, but, y'know, do whatever you want!"