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 lessthanjeff wrote:
Right, if you want to give specifics of the exact units you're running, we can run a more detailed comparison across units. All I have to go on right now is you said a single terminator with a cyclone missile launcher was a steal for its durability and output. I'm just trying to show what an equivalent number of points buys in vets for their durability and output to compare the value of the choice. If you'd rather compare a terminator with a different loadout, just tell me. All I'm trying to do is compare the numbers so anyone reading can understand which one they want to pick and what the advantages will be of the choice.

CML terminators *are* a steal for their points. But they're not the only way to run terminators, and frankly a mix is going to serve you far greater. That's the same as literally every configuration in a Deathwatch army. Individual models within a unit have specific configurations that contribute to the greater whole.

 lessthanjeff wrote:

Every 56 point terminator with a power weapon and cml could be replaced with 2 vets that both have stormshields and one that has a special weapon like a plasma gun for 55 points. Terminator is 3 wounds with a 2+ 5++ on one model with 2 str 8 shots. Vets would get 4 wounds with a 2+ 4++ across two models with 2 str 8 shots. That's about the closest I can make the numbers for a comparison.

Lets make something abundantly clear here: 3ppm basic power weapons are a massive error in pointing by GW. Expect them to be corrected.

Secondly, plasma vets are punishingly short ranged, and require babysitting by expensive and precious HQ slots. CMLs are not. Furthermore, that single Terminator provides 16 hordesweeping shots, while those two plasma vets are putting out...2. 4 if you manage to get within 12". The CML brings range and versatility. It's a different tool for a different job.

 lessthanjeff wrote:

Durability wise, I think vets win hand down.
They're more resistant to elite shooting from the likes of eradicators (because it's two models so you can't lose all 4 wounds from a single hit), they have more wounds overall (so better against the small arms fire), and they have a better invul.

Again, this is entirely loadout dependent. Yes, shield Vets are better at soaking high strength fire. That's literally why they are there. They are not, however, better against small arms.

Even with the incorrect points values, a shielded Vet is 12.5ppw minimum. A basic terminator is 12ppw, which drops even further when one takes into account the correct points cost for their loadout. As in 8th, Shield Vets take the big shots, terminators take the small shots. But now, the Terminators have an additional role in soaking high quality D2 attacks.

 lessthanjeff wrote:

I'm not recommending every vet in a unit gets a stormshield, but I'm saying every terminator chosen could be 2 vets with stormshields or special weapons for less cost.

Once again, every Terminator is *not* the cost of two shielded Vets, and you're not using a CML terminator as ablative wounds any more than you're using a plasma gun vet as an ablative wound. The difference is, a CML vet can be used as a hidden anchor in a squad to soak attacks when the unit is depleted, when the shield vet is already dead.

 lessthanjeff wrote:

I'm just trying to make as close of a comparison as I can for value comparison.

Which is something you're never going to arrive at looking simply at point ratios. The wargear changes mean that the model, and the associated squad, are going to behave in wildly different fashions.

I think you guys are actually saying the same thing, it really is an apples to oranges comparison and I think you include both choices in the same squad for the reasons you both have given. I’ve noticed that my all-the-fat-trimmed KT’s are around 240 points but do very specific things and look quite boring with obvious plays and strats that work with them. While when I take something like 4 Missile Launchers, 3 Terminators w/ CML and 3 x Storm Shield/Storm Bolter, the points get out of hand but the out of left field plays seem to fit in better and the expect the unexpected results you get that seem to typify the play style of Deathwatch are brought to the table. In the few games that I’ve had using a couple different factions in 9th, the nature of any given list tends to be easy to spot but the minor incremental changes that the player uses to their advantage is really what makes winning armies tick, which with the more list building I do here with Deathwatch you start to see so many interesting possibilities that wildly swing the use of a more generalist approach being able to be focused into something much more like a scalpel.

Plasma Vets and CML termis do not compare in ranged output though I don’t think... D6 damage at 48” range is pretty obviously a winner I think. The D2 on the Terminator everything else on Shield boys until they’re gone, then termis soak yadda yadda. It’s the same game we played last edition with a little spanner in the new food chain.

More and more I want to try a maxed out Bike squad with Shield, 5x power weapons and Multi melta attack bike. 315 points I think is very sane for a unit that can combat squad and use that sweet white scar strat right out of the gate to land a first turn charge. My opponents have tended to land right on the objectives when they attack while I’m finding my best chances seem to be to put pressure as far down range as I can early in an aggro kind of way and do my best to mop up in later rounds. So far I’ve found my armies with all Vets just haven’t had the staying power to eke out enough secondaries turns 3-5. I’ll hopefully be back shortly after a game I’m having against a friend who wants to bring an army specifically designed to kill 2W Marines... I’m expecting a blow out honestly.

I agree about the pros of having some different loadouts in the unit especially so you can allocate wounds to your advantage. Even within the vets it's great having some with and some without ss because when you're in cover against AP- you don't even need to use a shield model.

I wasn't making any comments about the regular terminators though, so I'm confused why you're making comparisons to different terminator loadouts. I'm only questioning the value of the CML specific loadout because unless I misunderstood, you cited that one as being great value for its durability and output. All my references to a terminator being a choice over 2 vets are still in the context of the points calculations specific to the CML. Just as I'm sure you aren't dismissing all vet loadouts when you say you aren't a fan of the frag cannon, I'm making no claims towards any other loadout of terminator when I question the worth of the CML.

Longer range and horde clearing ability are two different roles worth considering though.

I've not been concerned with hordes myself because they seem to have been heavily nerfed and are near non-existent around me right now. The meta around me has become nearly all marines/elite armies. I also believe I have more than enough bikes and vets to clear any hordes that may emerge but that may be helpful for others.

For the backfield role, I've been planning on a small vet squad with ss on all of them for objective holding partly because, as I understand the new scoring system, most objectives cannot be scored by a unit that is shooting. I also hate leaving an expensive squad in the back if only one or two of the models could shoot. If there is a scoring role for backfield units, I was going to try 4 heavy bolters, but I could see one or two CML being helpful with that.

I hope you're correct and that the point values are changed for the power weapons in the FAQ, but any list or comparison I make right now is going to be based on the points as written in the book because events don't let me question the book's intent.

Guys, i've read through this topic and the last few pages of the previous tactic thread with interest. I've been toying with starting a Deathwatch army as my next project, they are not an easy army to get your head round best way to build! Most armies you can pick up three lots of troops and you're off to a pretty good start.

So coming from Chaos Space Marines, I'm really only interested in the Primaris stuff and things that i can't take in my Black Legion army, I started to realise that actually, out of all the loyalist chapters Deathwatch are in fact where old style marines are best supported so i started to think maybe they are not actually the army for me.

So a few questions hopefully you can help me with, coming from a reasonably competitive but not tournament perspective.

Do you think if i stuck purely to Primaris I'd be heavily gimping myself with no access to SIA etc?

I'm like a kid in a candy shop with all the loyalist goodies I've not been able to use before, Deathwatch seemed like a cool way of being able to pick and choose lots of different stuff. However, within the Primaris only kill teams i'm not seeing a huge amount of synergy in mixed units apart from the Spectrus team. Maybe Fortis I'd run mixed Intercessor/Hellblaster combat squads but outriders i'd end up with a unit of 5 ints and 5 outriders. So overlooking Proteus teams, what am i really gaining over a regular marine army and non-mixed units apart from obsec here and there? I wish i could take Inceptors and Outriders in a combat squad.

I want a plane, CSM don't get planes. I would have picked up a stormtalon/stormhawk but the Corvus is really nice. I was suprised to see i can't transport primaris in it. Is it crazy for me to take it if I'm not using it as a transport? The points and firepower seem to compare very favourably to the stormtalon, 5 pts cheaper than the typhoon missile version but you're tougher, more wounds and can drop bombs. Granted the stormtalon isn't a great unit this edition. I'm almost tempted to fill it with 3x4 servitors and chuck them out around the board for board control/actions just to make use of the transport capacity!

Luckily DW do have other advantages aside from SIA. It was sad losing the SIA for sure, it also hurt losing some of the unique unit combos like the sniping intercessors with a single aggressor to still move and hit on a 3+.

However, choosing DW over a different army you do still get the ability to reroll 1's without a lieutenant nearby and we also have great mobility options between the teleportarium and beacon angelis. Mixing and matching units is cool, of course, although a bit diminished since there are less choices for each team and many of the bonus rules have been lost or turned into strats. The psychic tree is also really good imo.

I think the 5 intercessor and 5 outrider unit has potential, but I haven't gotten to test it yet. I don't think the 5 intercessor and 5 hellblaster is very efficient though. In both cases I think doing it with a proteus kill team of vets with plasma or vets with bikes is going to be better but it is still something unique for the army. I don't think the Corvus is going to make any waves either unfortunately.

If you're especially interested in the gravis units, then I think DW will be one of the better armies for you. If it's more the intercessors and hellblasters you want, then I'd probably recommend waiting for other supplements to make your decision. Dark Angels and Ultramarines both might be better for those units in the months to come.

Abaddon303 wrote:
**snip**

Do you think if i stuck purely to Primaris I'd be heavily gimping myself with no access to SIA etc?

**snip**

I want a plane, CSM don't get planes. I would have picked up a stormtalon/stormhawk but the Corvus is really nice. I was suprised to see i can't transport primaris in it. Is it crazy for me to take it if I'm not using it as a transport? The points and firepower seem to compare very favourably to the stormtalon, 5 pts cheaper than the typhoon missile version but you're tougher, more wounds and can drop bombs. Granted the stormtalon isn't a great unit this edition. I'm almost tempted to fill it with 3x4 servitors and chuck them out around the board for board control/actions just to make use of the transport capacity!

Whilst losing access to SIA is a bit of a downer, you are not putting yourself at a disadvantage by sticking to Primaris. If you compare DW boltguns to Primaris bolter variants, they are quite comparable (DW bolter + Kraken bolts = Bolt Rifle statline). The real difference isn't bolters, but overall squad options and melee proficiency (free chainswords and more/better options on Vets/Proteus teams).

The Corvus is in a reasonable spot atm, it is priced very well compared to the Stormtalon like you highlighted. Gunship Flyers can still be good at sniping characters etc, and the shrouding strat is also interesting - just don't expect miracles from the Corvus.

You should look at having one or two old marine units in your force, they are excellent. If you can find the old start collecting Deathwatch box, its a good one. Tons of weapon options, Artemis, and a ven dread. It also gives you your passengers for the cool looking corvus

Hi thanks for the feedback. Yeh I am starting to come round to maybe taking a single melee oriented Proteus kill team to go in the Corvus. I guess I just wasn't particularly excited to build and paint more power armored little dudes after over 10,000pts of black legion!

Like I said, I'm looking at a loyalist force so i can have a play around with the newer primaris stuff but the DW kill team models are really nice and i believe slightly upscaled so maybe I'll enjoy it a little more. I can kit them all out as individual characters, not necessarily optimal but that's not my main aim for this army anyway. I guess my mentality is that i don't want to build an army in such a way as it is pointless being Deathwatch.

So if a melee/short-range Proteus Kill team is my first troops choice, i was thinking the following for my other two:

1. I know you questioned the efficiency over Veterans, but I feel like a big blob of 5 ABR Intercessors and 5 Assault Hellblasters is a really strong midfield unit that compliments each other, especially backed up with a chief apothecary and the dominus aegis it should be able to hold the centre and dishes out some nasty shooting. I reckon with a 5++, 6+++ and healing and revivals those 5 hellblasters should have a good chance of surviving the battle even overcharging here and there. That's 75 plasma shots throughout the course of the game!
(i also have a bunch of ints and hellblasters from picking up the dark imperium box last year)

2. A second Fortis kill team I just thought simply 5 stalker bolt rifle intercessors to hang back on a rear objective and combat squad out 5 outriders. I don't think you can really go wrong with this one, having 5 outriders with obsec is just crazy cool.


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Also, couple of questions:
Regarding the specialisms, since Furor costs more points, why wouldn't i just give a unit Aquila and then pick troops? I don't quite understand the difference? I would have thought Aquila would be more expensive as it gets you around the single specialism limit.

I'm also wondering do people think a Watchmaster is worth taking? They seem a little limited for options so is access to Adaptive Tactics enough to make them worthwhile?

Specialism are dual function. They impart baseline rerolls of 1 to wound against Favored Enemies, but if you chose their Favored Enemy as the target of your Deathwatch Chapter Tactic, that Specialist Kill Team powers up to rerolling ALL wounds against that specific battlefield role.

In that vein, if you're going Specialism heavy in your list building a Watch Master is mandatory. You need to be able to power up your various teams over the course of the game, and the WM is one of the only tools that allow us to do that.

Abaddon303 wrote:

1. I know you questioned the efficiency over Veterans, but I feel like a big blob of 5 ABR Intercessors and 5 Assault Hellblasters is a really strong midfield unit that compliments each other, especially backed up with a chief apothecary and the dominus aegis it should be able to hold the centre and dishes out some nasty shooting. I reckon with a 5++, 6+++ and healing and revivals those 5 hellblasters should have a good chance of surviving the battle even overcharging here and there. That's 75 plasma shots throughout the course of the game!
(i also have a bunch of ints and hellblasters from picking up the dark imperium box last year)

The problem comes down to, what is this unit good at killing, and how does it do it. Yes, it has a lot of mid strength high AP fire from the hellblasters, and a decent amount of bolter fire. That's reasonable for hunting light and medium infantry, as well as medium vehicles. The problem is, you're giving up all your melee capacity for this, and in 9th if you're going to dance in the midboard, you need to be able to hit back with quality attacks. Yes, the squad will put out 31 S4 AP0 D1 punches. But thats not going to cut it against most of the things that will be bearing down on the squad. Vets have the flexibility to gear for being killy at range, while also retaining enough melee threat to be genuinely scary for all but the most dedicated assault units to handle. While also being comparably pointed to the Fortis team you're envisioning.

Abaddon303 wrote:

2. A second Fortis kill team I just thought simply 5 stalker bolt rifle intercessors to hang back on a rear objective and combat squad out 5 outriders. I don't think you can really go wrong with this one, having 5 outriders with obsec is just crazy cool.

ObSec Outriders are certainly doing the memetic rounds these days. Keep in mind that the Intercessor element will not have access to the double tapping strat due to keyword shenanigans.

Abaddon303 wrote:

Like I said, I'm looking at a loyalist force so i can have a play around with the newer primaris stuff but the DW kill team models are really nice and i believe slightly upscaled so maybe I'll enjoy it a little more. I can kit them all out as individual characters, not necessarily optimal but that's not my main aim for this army anyway. I guess my mentality is that i don't want to build an army in such a way as it is pointless being Deathwatch.

Keep in mind, now that both Firstborn and Primaris have the 2W statline, there's literally nothing stopping you converting Primaris-scale bodies to function as Vets on the table.

Sterling191 wrote:

Keep in mind, now that both Firstborn and Primaris have the 2W statline, there's literally nothing stopping you converting Primaris-scale bodies to function as Vets on the table.

Infiltrators look a LOT like Veterans with the pouches, fwiw. I'm not sure what else it would take to get them with the proper weapons, but their armor style is probably the closest.

Hmm, now that is an interesting proposition. I do love a bit of conversion. I have the primaris halves of both indomitus and dark Imperium and could also pick up the vanguard box pretty cheap. Between that lot and a few boxes of kill teams I could probably build whatever I wanted!


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Am I right in saying firstborn arms and heads work fine on primaris bodies? Are the pauldrons the same size too?

Arms and heads are a "tiny" bit smaller I believe. Hands are humorously about the same size though. Pauldrons are 100% the same size though.

Buy the start collecting Deathwatch box. Sell the bodies and legs (plus associated pouches) online. Use weapons on Primaris bodies.
I can promise you, existing Deathwatch players have far more spare weapons than they have bodies.

All my vets use Primaris legs. Cut the legs above the belt. The only bit that needs work is the removal/paring back of the back pouches on the vet body. I generally keep the knife and slice off their beltpacks.

So question on the Indomitor Kill Team wargear options.

Under Wargear Options for the kill team we see "An Indomitor Kill Team has the following additional wargear options:" I take this to mean that the original wargear options for the datasheets are still in effect. Then under the Heavy Intercessor datasheet we see: "For every 5 models in the unit... rifle can be replaced with 1 heavy bolter..."

Does this mean if we take a kill team with 5 HI and 5 Eradicators the 5 HIs can take 2 heavy bolters?

 ChobitsCrazy wrote:
So question on the Indomitor Kill Team wargear options.

Under Wargear Options for the kill team we see "An Indomitor Kill Team has the following additional wargear options:" I take this to mean that the original wargear options for the datasheets are still in effect. Then under the Heavy Intercessor datasheet we see: "For every 5 models in the unit... rifle can be replaced with 1 heavy bolter..."

Does this mean if we take a kill team with 5 HI and 5 Eradicators the 5 HIs can take 2 heavy bolters?

I would say no. The creating kill teams rules cover this, it has to be models of the same original unit type not just overall models in the new kill team unit - the quoted example in that section is regular Intercessors and their grenade launchers, which is worded in exactly the same way as how HI take heavy bolters.

**edit**
10 HI bodies would be the only way to access 2 heavy bolters, you could do 1 10 man indomitor team like this if you planned on combat squadding:
2 heavy bolters
3 executor rifles
5 hellstorm rifles

Thank you, missed that piece.

I played against my buddies old Custodes list and had some noteworthy moments. We played the scorched earth mission and both took the mission secondary kind of for a fun challenge. The amount of close combat through turn two and three was intense but it really was all over the board, we both had engage in all fronts as well as him having Assassinate and me taking Bring it Down.

Custodes list:

Dreadhost

Trajan Valoris
Allarus Shield Captain w/ Relic Axe and exploding 6’s
Vexilla w/ Praetorian Plate and Axe

3 x 3 Guards w/ Spear and Sword Board mixes
4 x Allarus Terminators
Achillus Contemptor
Galatus Contemptor

Telemon
Venerable Land Raider

Deathwatch:

Watchmaster w/ Relic Spear and +2 Strength
Captain w/ Xenophase Blade, Relic Shield w/ 5+ Invulnerable Aura, Vigil Incarnate
Chapter Champion w/ Reroll charges aura WT, Relic Sword, Adamantine Mantle (Vigil Unmatched)
Codicier Natorian

10 x Vets, 2 w/ Shield and Chainsword, Sergeant and Blackshield w/ Heavy Thunder Hammers, 6 w/ Boltgun, Power Sword
Corvus Blackstar

10 Vets, 4 w/ Missile Launcher, 3 w/ Bolter, Power Sword, 3 x Terminators w/ Powerfist, Storm Bolter and Cyclone Missiles

7 Vets, Sergeant w/ Xenophase Blade, Blackshield w/ twin lightning claws, 5 w/ Bolter, Power Sword
Rhino

10 Vets, 4 w/ Infernus Heavy Bolter, 1 w/ Bolter, Power Sword, 3 Bikers w/ Power Swords, 2 Vanguard w/ Storm Shield, Chainsword

5 Vets w/ Storm Bolter, Chainsword

Venerable Dreadnaught w/ Twin Lascannon and Fist

The Terminators caught 3 early invulnerable saves against the Land Raider after giving up first turn basically securing their reason for existence! We both poured almost all of our CP’s into pregame gear or deep striking stuff, it didn’t seem that stratagems played a huge part other than turning a few saves around, I think that might come with more experience. Everything I did went to plan, the surprise was his land raider. I was so busy dealing with all the units he deep striked right in my face that he was able to get 4 clear turns of shooting whittling down my Missile launcher squad early and turning around to vapourize the 5 man squad I tried bringing down in his backfield to pop one of the scorched earth objectives. I master crafted my sergeants Heavy thunder hammer and it honestly felt worth it when it took him and most of his squad to finish a telemon with 7 wounds off after taking down a three man Custodes squad the turn prior. The Chapter Champion for 70 or whatever points is just a dream in the Corvus. Alongside the Watchmaster it gives me so many high damage high output models that kind of felt like I cornered certain parts of my opponents army and forced some tough decisions. Maybe if he had brought bikes instead he could have dictated more flow. The Dread host came down turn two and he managed to go through a bunch of stuff but I was able to counter his placement pretty easily, he put his Galatus in a little pocket that I didn’t expect which I think if he put his Allarus Captain there instead the game would’ve been different.

I didn’t get the sense that either of us could shoot anything off the table, but as soon as close combat was met units just fell over left and right. Xenophase blades were uncanny, I managed to kill 1 full guardian with my watch sergeant and the captain poked the last wound off the Achillus last turn after the Chapter Champion did 9 wounds himself on the charge. I feel like these Veteran focused armies really do thrive on the gear customization and damage output while the primaris version of Deathwatch looks more stratagem driven and about trying to stretch out your durability. Nothing I put together using my vets comes close to the survivability and relative damage versus the target which said unit is most applicable at facing, such as inceptors, outriders and eradicators being known so well for taking down Marines, Hordes and multi wound targets respectively. I really like this new supplement and it’s forcing me to think all kinds of ways to play my old army through. I was planning on plugging all the Indomitus stuff into my Deathwatch but I feel like they are two entirely different armies at this point. I kind of want to build some salamanders too anyway...

By the middle of turn four he just didn’t have enough on the board to react in the places he needed to, while I started clearly pulling away with 15 point primary turns and securing my secondaries. This was my problem versus necrons before and I suspect against Marine armies that focus on bringing lots of plasma. I’d like to fit more Storm shields but I need the numbers in my units to do things like get two Heavy Hammers on the character models and the Biker/Vanguard mix for T5 w/ 4++ and the 10 Missile Squad. I could drop the power weapons from the bikers and maybe even a vet from the rhino still tho. I’m also thinking about putting plasma on the Storm Bolter squad because they don’t seem to do much but back field camp, I’d like the option to maybe throw them through the teleportarium as a distraction carnifex, I tried shotguns for funsies and coolness factor but losing the power swords is no bueno...

 LunarSol wrote:

 bullyboy wrote:
They were ok at 10pts (per index), but 15pts puts them purely in fluff context now. I'll still take a few, but they need to go back to 10pts.

I think all of the index points feel better than what we got in the Codex. I'd not be at all surprised to discover their actually more current.

So, on this note, I finally bothered to unlock the codex in the app and all the points are from the Index. Watch Master is 130. Frag Cannon is 10. Stalker is 3. No cost on Terminator Power Swords, etc.

We should be coming up on the codex FAQ this week or next. I suppose we'll have answers one way or another shortly.

Well, I been going through and re arming my vets to get a bit more variety in their loadouts. I'll be keeping a squad of storm bolters, but no more. While there isn't much incentive to mix different ranged weapons, I'm going to have a ton of variety with melee weapons to make the army more interesting.

Some new squads that I'm working on getting together are:

-I'm currently putting the finishing touches on a Fortis kill team with assault bolt rifle and assault plasma. It should put some decent mid range fire.

-I want to try out a Proteus kill team with 5 stalker bolters, 5 Vanguards and a kill team specialization. They would obviously combat squad, I would have 5 guys hanging back taking shot from an objective, and 5 vanguards with objective secured going in somewhere to cause trouble. It's kind of annoying that the stalkers can't have a melee weapons anymore, but I'm going to use the opportunity to do a little conversion.

-A very beefy Proteus kill team. I would have 3 terminators fully loaded with cyclone missile launchers as well as TH/SS backed up by assorted vets with storm shields. Due to how expensive those terminators are, I won't alocated any would to them untill evey one else is dead. I want this squad to be extremely hard to kill and will deep strike into a position that I want to keep. I may give them an apothecary and some HQ buffs.

Hi guys, quick question as I dont have the codex yet, I presume Relic Terminators can be included in kill teams?

 Elfric wrote:
Hi guys, quick question as I dont have the codex yet, I presume Relic Terminators can be included in kill teams?

They cannot.

However, with creative conversion and/or counts-as usage, I dont think anyone is going to begrudge you running Cataphracti/Tartatros models as Deathwatch Terminators for the Proteus Kill Team.

Technically all Deathwatch Terimnators are conversions/counts as since they're a special datasheet that they don't sell a kit for. Make them out of whatever you want.

Sterling191 wrote:

 Elfric wrote:
Hi guys, quick question as I dont have the codex yet, I presume Relic Terminators can be included in kill teams?

They cannot.

However, with creative conversion and/or counts-as usage, I dont think anyone is going to begrudge you running Cataphracti/Tartatros models as Deathwatch Terminators for the Proteus Kill Team.

Yea, visually it doesnt matter and the actual unit datasheet stats are the same anyway, however, they would be limited to the Deathwatch Terminator loadouts, so Storm Bolters and Assault Cannons instead of Combi Bolters and Reaper autocannons.

Fictional wrote:

Yea, visually it doesnt matter and the actual unit datasheet stats are the same anyway, however, they would be limited to the Deathwatch Terminator loadouts, so Storm Bolters and Assault Cannons instead of Combi Bolters and Reaper autocannons.

Indeed. Visually it wont be an issue, just be mindful of the stats.

FAQ is live.

Black Shields can go in Proteus Kill Teams
Point values for multiple things were fixed (Terminators arent paying twice for basic power weapons, Stalker Boltguns are back down to 3ppm for Vets)
Tweaked some PL values (they're still stupidly overcosted for Kill Teams, sorry Crusade players)

Interestingly, Terminators appear to still be able to double up on heavy weapons, and also still impart their 5++ Crux Terminatus invuln to a Proteus Kill Team. All told not a lot of surprises here.

5 man biker squads changed significantly.


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Double the cost on the Halo Launcher? Hilarious.


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We can now drop the SIA Centurian Sgt out of a Blackstar I guess, maybe?


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Overall, pretty much all changes I expected. Surprised the Terminator thing wasn't touched. No surprises on the points. A bit sad on the Biker change just because I like the Outriders and there's no good Infantry to mix with them. The regular Biker version is now pretty significant I suppose.

Terminators can no longer take power swords, power axes, or power mauls.

This alone makes me want to punch the FAQ guys.

 cuda1179 wrote:
Terminators can no longer take power swords, power axes, or power mauls.

This alone makes me want to punch the FAQ guys.

Apparently they aren't gone but changed to 0 points? Something about 9th unit description saying if an option doesn't have a listed cost it's free. (I don't have the new book as the plague wiped out gaming for me)