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2020/12/09 21:52:34
Subject: Codex:Death Guard Delayed to 'Early Next Year' (Dec 9th: And They Shall Know No Fear)
Red Corsair wrote: Don't confuse honest pragmatism with negativity. I actually really like the game, and realize I will be engaging with another person so there is a necessary social contract to draw up between us. Well, at least if we both aim to enjoy the game we have to the fullest.
I also realize that to expect significant balance from thousands upon thousands of overlapping, stacking and variable costed rules slow dripped for release over time is a pipe dream without said social engagement.
GW knows this too.
They can do a lot better than they are now.
Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne!
2020/12/09 22:23:45
Subject: Codex:Death Guard Delayed to 'Early Next Year' (Dec 9th: And They Shall Know No Fear)
Red Corsair wrote: Don't confuse honest pragmatism with negativity. I actually really like the game, and realize I will be engaging with another person so there is a necessary social contract to draw up between us. Well, at least if we both aim to enjoy the game we have to the fullest.
I also realize that to expect significant balance from thousands upon thousands of overlapping, stacking and variable costed rules slow dripped for release over time is a pipe dream without said social engagement.
GW knows this too.
They can do a lot better than they are now.
If you think they're bad now you should see where the game came from.
GW is making an effort to pursue balance now. They aren't 100% perfect, but no game is. The fact the game is improving though is something worth commending and encouraging. It's a carrot AND stick, not just a stick.
2020/12/09 22:46:59
Subject: Codex:Death Guard Delayed to 'Early Next Year' (Dec 9th: And They Shall Know No Fear)
Red Corsair wrote: Don't confuse honest pragmatism with negativity. I actually really like the game, and realize I will be engaging with another person so there is a necessary social contract to draw up between us. Well, at least if we both aim to enjoy the game we have to the fullest.
I also realize that to expect significant balance from thousands upon thousands of overlapping, stacking and variable costed rules slow dripped for release over time is a pipe dream without said social engagement.
GW knows this too.
They can do a lot better than they are now.
If you think they're bad now you should see where the game came from.
GW is making an effort to pursue balance now. They aren't 100% perfect, but no game is. The fact the game is improving though is something worth commending and encouraging. It's a carrot AND stick, not just a stick.
So why put money towards "It's better than it was" when thats not much a measure to begin with?
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
2020/12/09 22:52:15
Subject: Codex:Death Guard Delayed to 'Early Next Year' (Dec 9th: And They Shall Know No Fear)
Red Corsair wrote: Don't confuse honest pragmatism with negativity. I actually really like the game, and realize I will be engaging with another person so there is a necessary social contract to draw up between us. Well, at least if we both aim to enjoy the game we have to the fullest.
I also realize that to expect significant balance from thousands upon thousands of overlapping, stacking and variable costed rules slow dripped for release over time is a pipe dream without said social engagement.
GW knows this too.
They can do a lot better than they are now.
If you think they're bad now you should see where the game came from.
GW is making an effort to pursue balance now. They aren't 100% perfect, but no game is. The fact the game is improving though is something worth commending and encouraging. It's a carrot AND stick, not just a stick.
So why put money towards "It's better than it was" when thats not much a measure to begin with?
Why pretend nothing is changing or improving when it obviously has and is? It's nowhere near perfect, but I feel people are falling into a habit of doom scrolling through online communities and letting the negativity breed more negativity instead of taking a step back and looking at the positives too. I know I've done it.
2020/12/09 23:22:08
Subject: Codex:Death Guard Delayed to 'Early Next Year' (Dec 9th: And They Shall Know No Fear)
Well I think its is getting a touch off of Death guard rumors so I'll not add to the talk of GW sucks or not. So far the news has been pretty alright in my opinion going to need to wait for the next two days to see how much it actually changes for the better, or stays meh.
2020/12/09 23:29:15
Subject: Codex:Death Guard Delayed to 'Early Next Year' (Dec 8th: Plague Weapons)
The fact they're getting it as well as their other faction rules is a step up from some Chaos Legions
BlaxicanX wrote: A young business man named Tom Kirby, who was a pupil of mine until he turned greedy, helped the capitalists hunt down and destroy the wargamers. He betrayed and murdered Games Workshop.
2020/12/09 23:39:36
Subject: Codex:Death Guard Delayed to 'Early Next Year' (Dec 9th: And They Shall Know No Fear)
Disgustingly Resilient is being shown tomorrow, which confirms that it is being changed.
Isn't this just And They Shall Know No Fear but Death Guard? I haven't been following the codex rule changes from 8th to 9th that closely.
Yes. After two decades (or more) of complaining, Chaos Space Marines (or at least Death Guard) will finally be as brave as Imperial Space Marines. I for one welcome the end of this long standing complaint.
2020/12/10 00:45:02
Subject: Codex:Death Guard Delayed to 'Early Next Year' (Dec 9th: And They Shall Know No Fear)
So, if DG Rhinos count as not having moved, Then does that now mean that Plague marines can ride in Rhinos, have those rhinos move, then disembark, then move, then assault?
Yippy, a return to Rhino Rush.
2020/12/10 01:27:11
Subject: Codex:Death Guard Delayed to 'Early Next Year' (Dec 9th: And They Shall Know No Fear)
cuda1179 wrote: So, if DG Rhinos count as not having moved, Then does that now mean that Plague marines can ride in Rhinos, have those rhinos move, then disembark, then move, then assault?
Yippy, a return to Rhino Rush.
No, because you still have to disembark before the transport model moves. Counting as Remained Stationary doesn't negate the fact that you still moved.
She/Her
"There are no problems that cannot be solved with cannons." - Chief Engineer Boris Krauss of Nuln
Kid_Kyoto wrote:"Don't be a dick" and "This is a family wargame" are good rules of thumb.
cuda1179 wrote: So, if DG Rhinos count as not having moved, Then does that now mean that Plague marines can ride in Rhinos, have those rhinos move, then disembark, then move, then assault?
Yippy, a return to Rhino Rush.
No.
At Games Workshop, we believe that how you behave does matter. We believe this so strongly that we have written it down in the Games Workshop Book. There is a section in the book where we talk about the values we expect all staff to demonstrate in their working lives. These values are Lawyers, Guns and Money.
2020/12/10 01:45:42
Subject: Codex:Death Guard Delayed to 'Early Next Year' (Dec 8th: Plague Weapons)
alextroy wrote: After two decades (or more) of complaining...
I think your avatar appears in the dictionary next to the word "hyperbole". CSMs have, at times, had better Ld or just been flat out Fearless, so I don't know where this "two decades of complaining" bull gak is coming from.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/12/10 01:45:58
alextroy wrote: After two decades (or more) of complaining...
I think your avatar appears in the dictionary next to the word "hyperbole". CSMs have, at times, had better Ld or just been flat out Fearless, so I don't know where this "two decades of complaining" bull gak is coming from.
Personally, I preferred it when CSM had better leadership than loyalists. Of course, that was when leadership actually meant more than just how many guys ran away.....
2020/12/10 02:10:32
Subject: Codex:Death Guard Delayed to 'Early Next Year' (Dec 9th: And They Shall Know No Fear)
Well look on the bright side, maybe massed all infantry DG list can be a viable list after the codex is released. And if it is, then having remorseless would be nice.
BTW. just to add to DR possibly getting changed. I am fine with DG becoming a -1 to wound. That's ok really. Because all of DG's core troops are now toughness 5. A -1 to wound is pretty good on T5 units. A str 4 bolter would need to roll a 6 to wound. All str 6 to 9 weapons would need a 4+ to wound.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/12/10 02:16:41
2020/12/10 02:33:43
Subject: Re:Codex:Death Guard Delayed to 'Early Next Year' (Dec 9th: And They Shall Know No Fear)
Is this just the Hard copy Codex delayed, or PDF, as well?
At Games Workshop, we believe that how you behave does matter. We believe this so strongly that we have written it down in the Games Workshop Book. There is a section in the book where we talk about the values we expect all staff to demonstrate in their working lives. These values are Lawyers, Guns and Money.
2020/12/10 03:01:30
Subject: Re:Codex:Death Guard Delayed to 'Early Next Year' (Dec 9th: And They Shall Know No Fear)
Grot 6 wrote: Is this just the Hard copy Codex delayed, or PDF, as well?
There is no standalone digital product anymore. So the physical codex that unlocks the crunch in the app being delayed delays any access.
BlaxicanX wrote: A young business man named Tom Kirby, who was a pupil of mine until he turned greedy, helped the capitalists hunt down and destroy the wargamers. He betrayed and murdered Games Workshop.
2020/12/10 03:49:28
Subject: Codex:Death Guard Delayed to 'Early Next Year' (Dec 9th: And They Shall Know No Fear)
cuda1179 wrote: So, if DG Rhinos count as not having moved, Then does that now mean that Plague marines can ride in Rhinos, have those rhinos move, then disembark, then move, then assault?
Yippy, a return to Rhino Rush.
Cheekey... haha
On another note, whats this super ob sec ??
I dont get it, seems Im missing something and its not my dignity for once...
AngryAngel80 wrote: I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "
alextroy wrote: After two decades (or more) of complaining...
I think your avatar appears in the dictionary next to the word "hyperbole". CSMs have, at times, had better Ld or just been flat out Fearless, so I don't know where this "two decades of complaining" bull gak is coming from.
Why you trying to hurt my feelings
But seriously, Chaos players have been complaining every time a unit isn't Fearless that their vaunted Veterans of the Long War run away and were subject to Sweeping Advance when all Space Marines were basically invulnerable thanks to ATSKNF. It appears that will no longer be the case. They will be at least as brave as their Corpse God Loving counterparts.
2020/12/10 04:41:59
Subject: Codex:Death Guard Delayed to 'Early Next Year' (Dec 8th: Plague Weapons)
Disgustingly Resilient is being shown tomorrow, which confirms that it is being changed.
Isn't this just And They Shall Know No Fear but Death Guard? I haven't been following the codex rule changes from 8th to 9th that closely.
It is, but it's replacing Fearless so some people are mad. I'm taking it as GW removing army wide fearless abilities so leadership tests matter more.
Death Guard haven't had Fearless since 7th edition. In 8th they took morale tests like everyone else. This makes leadership tests matter less.
So it's swinging the pendelum back halfway? Honestly it feels like a good change for CSM compared to "everyone runs away or is fearless". Leadership tests will still matter, attrition won't.
2020/12/10 05:06:05
Subject: Codex:Death Guard Delayed to 'Early Next Year' (Dec 8th: Plague Weapons)
Disgustingly Resilient is being shown tomorrow, which confirms that it is being changed.
Isn't this just And They Shall Know No Fear but Death Guard? I haven't been following the codex rule changes from 8th to 9th that closely.
It is, but it's replacing Fearless so some people are mad. I'm taking it as GW removing army wide fearless abilities so leadership tests matter more.
Death Guard haven't had Fearless since 7th edition. In 8th they took morale tests like everyone else. This makes leadership tests matter less.
So it's swinging the pendelum back halfway? Honestly it feels like a good change for CSM compared to "everyone runs away or is fearless". Leadership tests will still matter, attrition won't.
This rule is for Death Guard. Not all Legions had Fearless on all of their units in previous editions. No reason to assume they all will have a rule similar to this in 9th.
2020/12/10 05:13:34
Subject: Codex:Death Guard Delayed to 'Early Next Year' (Dec 8th: Plague Weapons)
Disgustingly Resilient is being shown tomorrow, which confirms that it is being changed.
Isn't this just And They Shall Know No Fear but Death Guard? I haven't been following the codex rule changes from 8th to 9th that closely.
It is, but it's replacing Fearless so some people are mad. I'm taking it as GW removing army wide fearless abilities so leadership tests matter more.
Death Guard haven't had Fearless since 7th edition. In 8th they took morale tests like everyone else. This makes leadership tests matter less.
So it's swinging the pendelum back halfway? Honestly it feels like a good change for CSM compared to "everyone runs away or is fearless". Leadership tests will still matter, attrition won't.
This rule is for Death Guard. Not all Legions had Fearless on all of their units in previous editions. No reason to assume they all will have a rule similar to this in 9th.
The Rubrics, Noise Marines, and Berserkers were fearless in the past, and it at least provides some hope they'll fix the CSM going forward. Not holding my breathe or anything but maybe fingers crossed.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/12/10 05:14:32
2020/12/10 05:40:32
Subject: Codex:Death Guard Delayed to 'Early Next Year' (Dec 8th: Plague Weapons)
Disgustingly Resilient is being shown tomorrow, which confirms that it is being changed.
Isn't this just And They Shall Know No Fear but Death Guard? I haven't been following the codex rule changes from 8th to 9th that closely.
It is, but it's replacing Fearless so some people are mad. I'm taking it as GW removing army wide fearless abilities so leadership tests matter more.
Death Guard haven't had Fearless since 7th edition. In 8th they took morale tests like everyone else. This makes leadership tests matter less.
So it's swinging the pendelum back halfway? Honestly it feels like a good change for CSM compared to "everyone runs away or is fearless". Leadership tests will still matter, attrition won't.
This rule is for Death Guard. Not all Legions had Fearless on all of their units in previous editions. No reason to assume they all will have a rule similar to this in 9th.
The Rubrics, Noise Marines, and Berserkers were fearless in the past, and it at least provides some hope they'll fix the CSM going forward. Not holding my breathe or anything but maybe fingers crossed.
Yes, the cult units got it, but Undivided had to get it from icons and the like, except for specific units like Possessed or Obliterators that had it automatically. They may go back to that. It's possible some of the Undivided Legions will be locked out of god specific marks again as well. We'll just have to wait and see.
2020/12/10 05:52:42
Subject: Codex:Death Guard Delayed to 'Early Next Year' (Dec 8th: Plague Weapons)
Disgustingly Resilient is being shown tomorrow, which confirms that it is being changed.
Isn't this just And They Shall Know No Fear but Death Guard? I haven't been following the codex rule changes from 8th to 9th that closely.
It is, but it's replacing Fearless so some people are mad. I'm taking it as GW removing army wide fearless abilities so leadership tests matter more.
Death Guard haven't had Fearless since 7th edition. In 8th they took morale tests like everyone else. This makes leadership tests matter less.
So it's swinging the pendelum back halfway? Honestly it feels like a good change for CSM compared to "everyone runs away or is fearless". Leadership tests will still matter, attrition won't.
This rule is for Death Guard. Not all Legions had Fearless on all of their units in previous editions. No reason to assume they all will have a rule similar to this in 9th.
The Rubrics, Noise Marines, and Berserkers were fearless in the past, and it at least provides some hope they'll fix the CSM going forward. Not holding my breathe or anything but maybe fingers crossed.
Yes, the cult units got it, but Undivided had to get it from icons and the like, except for specific units like Possessed or Obliterators that had it automatically. They may go back to that. It's possible some of the Undivided Legions will be locked out of god specific marks again as well. We'll just have to wait and see.
I remain optimistic only because they've been doing a decent job so far and it feels like they're buffing DG while trying to stick to the fluff which beats out buffing for the sake of buffing.
2020/12/10 06:06:28
Subject: Codex:Death Guard Delayed to 'Early Next Year' (Dec 8th: Plague Weapons)
Disgustingly Resilient is being shown tomorrow, which confirms that it is being changed.
Isn't this just And They Shall Know No Fear but Death Guard? I haven't been following the codex rule changes from 8th to 9th that closely.
It is, but it's replacing Fearless so some people are mad. I'm taking it as GW removing army wide fearless abilities so leadership tests matter more.
Death Guard haven't had Fearless since 7th edition. In 8th they took morale tests like everyone else. This makes leadership tests matter less.
So it's swinging the pendelum back halfway? Honestly it feels like a good change for CSM compared to "everyone runs away or is fearless". Leadership tests will still matter, attrition won't.
This rule is for Death Guard. Not all Legions had Fearless on all of their units in previous editions. No reason to assume they all will have a rule similar to this in 9th.
The Rubrics, Noise Marines, and Berserkers were fearless in the past, and it at least provides some hope they'll fix the CSM going forward. Not holding my breathe or anything but maybe fingers crossed.
Yes, the cult units got it, but Undivided had to get it from icons and the like, except for specific units like Possessed or Obliterators that had it automatically. They may go back to that. It's possible some of the Undivided Legions will be locked out of god specific marks again as well. We'll just have to wait and see.
I remain optimistic only because they've been doing a decent job so far and it feels like they're buffing DG while trying to stick to the fluff which beats out buffing for the sake of buffing.
Oh, don't misunderstand me. I liked it when all of the Legions had different rules. That's talking 3.5 and Traitor Legions. The Undivided Legions got other rules to compensate, like +1 leadership for votlw. My boys got Fear, Night Vision, and Stealth (though admittedly only one of those was useful). I'm totally cool with them not getting marks as well, that way they can be the godless, nihilistic monsters they're supposed to be. I'm really hoping that's what gw is doing. Screw all of this warbands and renegades crap, gimme Legions.
2020/12/10 06:50:30
Subject: Codex:Death Guard Delayed to 'Early Next Year' (Dec 8th: Plague Weapons)
Disgustingly Resilient is being shown tomorrow, which confirms that it is being changed.
Isn't this just And They Shall Know No Fear but Death Guard? I haven't been following the codex rule changes from 8th to 9th that closely.
It is, but it's replacing Fearless so some people are mad. I'm taking it as GW removing army wide fearless abilities so leadership tests matter more.
Death Guard haven't had Fearless since 7th edition. In 8th they took morale tests like everyone else. This makes leadership tests matter less.
So it's swinging the pendelum back halfway? Honestly it feels like a good change for CSM compared to "everyone runs away or is fearless". Leadership tests will still matter, attrition won't.
This rule is for Death Guard. Not all Legions had Fearless on all of their units in previous editions. No reason to assume they all will have a rule similar to this in 9th.
The Rubrics, Noise Marines, and Berserkers were fearless in the past, and it at least provides some hope they'll fix the CSM going forward. Not holding my breathe or anything but maybe fingers crossed.
Yes, the cult units got it, but Undivided had to get it from icons and the like, except for specific units like Possessed or Obliterators that had it automatically. They may go back to that. It's possible some of the Undivided Legions will be locked out of god specific marks again as well. We'll just have to wait and see.
I remain optimistic only because they've been doing a decent job so far and it feels like they're buffing DG while trying to stick to the fluff which beats out buffing for the sake of buffing.
Oh, don't misunderstand me. I liked it when all of the Legions had different rules. That's talking 3.5 and Traitor Legions. The Undivided Legions got other rules to compensate, like +1 leadership for votlw. My boys got Fear, Night Vision, and Stealth (though admittedly only one of those was useful). I'm totally cool with them not getting marks as well, that way they can be the godless, nihilistic monsters they're supposed to be. I'm really hoping that's what gw is doing. Screw all of this warbands and renegades crap, gimme Legions.
I want both. Give us legions, but make all the "build your own" rules for Renegades.
2020/12/10 07:57:39
Subject: Codex:Death Guard Delayed to 'Early Next Year' (Dec 9th: And They Shall Know No Fear)
cuda1179 wrote: So, if DG Rhinos count as not having moved, Then does that now mean that Plague marines can ride in Rhinos, have those rhinos move, then disembark, then move, then assault?
Yippy, a return to Rhino Rush.
Not to be personal against you but this is such a toxic way of thinking... It's what has created many of the issues with the game. A rule is released and it's clear what is meant by it but there is always a "lawyering" of the rule to try and break it or reinterpret it. This is a casual tabletop game, the rules and suggestions from GW shouldn't be approached in this manner at all IMO.
The first rule of unarmed combat is: don’t be unarmed.
Eldar- 4436 pts
