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New rules seem nice, Poxwalkers being T4 base is at least somewhat of a nice compensation for DR. But yeah not sold on the new SC box. It is only useful if you want to run poxwalker heavy DG which is a valid approach but not every one's cup of tea. I more of a power armour fan myself, others might prefer some daemon soup and in any local scene were proxies are frowned upon including Typhus drives down the value further if you are not looking for that particular DG archetype.

15 points for 9" contagion(18"+ of coverage from min 3 models) turn 3 deep strike seems amazing to me.

That potentially is a lot of there army covered.

Flamers wounding(-1 T C) T4 on 4's T5+ on 5's rerolling 1's and not to mention all my MBH wounding on T8 on 3's and T5 on 2's is awesome.

I've also not really had problems keeping my MBH alive so turn 3 I expect to still have a lot of firepower left.

 AngryAngel80 wrote:
I'd agree with that which gives them a use.

However that use alone would make the combat patrol box a real boring and lackluster box. Which is why I am thinking there has to be more we haven't seen or some devil in the details to make them more than just an objective camper unit or that box will end up being a pretty big fail.

I mean who needs one unit who can do something ( plague marines ) and a bunch of objective campers with extremely limited damage output.

For their use though it makes me wonder on the whole picture for them or if they just are a cheap T4 objective camper. Which would be alright but not very exciting.

As well, keep in mind that we might still have the Deep Strike Strat they got from PA but as a generic compared to Plague Company specific. With the generic Outland existing there's some good options to build pressure. Assuming they are indeed cheaper and I was wanting to go this route anyway I'll have to keep that in mind when I acquire the rules. Just need my girlfriend to paint some zombies for me.

COLD CASH wrote:
15 points for 9" contagion(18"+ of coverage from min 3 models) turn 3 deep strike seems amazing to me.

That potentially is a lot of there army covered.

Flamers wounding(-1 T C) T4 on 4's T5+ on 5's rerolling 1's and not to mention all my MBH wounding on T8 on 3's and T5 on 2's is awesome.

I've also not really had problems keeping my MBH alive so turn 3 I expect to still have a lot of firepower left.

Maybe I missing something here, but the contagion is 9" range on turn 3 with the chimes. They have to be more than 9" away from enemies on DS, so it won't help at all as nothing will be in the contagion range.

Is there a breakdown of the Combat Patrol anywhere? Tried OP and ther last 6-7 pages.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Is there a breakdown of the Combat Patrol anywhere? Tried OP and ther last 6-7 pages.

It was shown here.

From the box art and description, it seems to be 30 Poxwalkers, 7 Plague Marines, a Biologus Putrifier grenade dude ad, for reasons we're not clear on, Typhus instead of a generic Lord.

This is the part that matters the most to me:

GW wrote:Regular Chaos Lords of the Death Guard have cause to rejoice, as they now have the resilience to match their pestilent brothers-in-arms. While originally they had more in common with their unblessed peers among the Traitor Legions, now both Chaos Lords and Sorcerers of the Death Guard have Toughness 5, Contagions of Nurgle, and Disgustingly Resilient to better fit into your armies. No longer will they have to abide such an affront to their pride as matching the Toughness of their False Emperor-worshipping counterparts.

Those two units not having matching rules was asinine, and yet another bit no model = no rule nonsense. I'm glad someone with a brain at GW realised how stupid that was and fixed it.

 NAVARRO wrote:
Doesnt the new PM box still sells 7?

For the same price that other armies get 10 models as well. What a bargain!

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Assuming they keep Fearless, Poxwalkers will be a better objective baby sitter than Cultists at minimum.

Got to wonder if they have Contagions of Nurgle? New profile, Fearless, and Contagions of Nurgle would be a pretty spicy package for 5 points a model. Not the stay around forever unit of today, but a much more offensively-minded package.

Yeah we will need to see what other things can be worked with that buff the pox walkers or how other units can mesh with them. Like will the medic give out FNP ? Will it work with them ? Will they have supporting strats ? Does Typhus augment them still somehow which you'd imagine he does as that is why he's in the combat patrol box now as well. Do they spread contagions and make their, I am assuming still strength 3 less of a problem ?

I know I've spent a lot of time going round and round on these guys but going into my street cred I started them when when they were plague zombies so they were a big selling factor to me as I love zombies. So their new uses and rules are important to me ( them and nurglings, because they are cool ).

Can't wait to see the whole package of their possible uses and either be let down, elated or some combination of the two. Saying that maybe typhus doesn't buff them persay and instead heals groups of them from depleted squads ? That could be very very nice depending on how many he brings back or if you get strats that can fill them back, psychic powers, etc. Maybe something that helps mitigate the fact that if something wounds them they just keel over. I'd be more than ok they die by the bucketload if they rise again if the list is set up to really push their zombie nature that way.

Talbaz wrote:
Execpt there are two max squad size, one in the Field Munatorium field manual faq (5-10), and was in the power rating faq (5-20)

I would venture to say that the points sheets were pulled directly from the new codex.

 alextroy wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Assuming they keep Fearless, Poxwalkers will be a better objective baby sitter than Cultists at minimum.

Got to wonder if they have Contagions of Nurgle? New profile, Fearless, and Contagions of Nurgle would be a pretty spicy package for 5 points a model. Not the stay around forever unit of today, but a much more offensively-minded package.

It wouldn't make sense for them NOT to. Hell, lore wise how else would you get Poxwalkers? They'd have to spread their love and joy.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 alextroy wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Assuming they keep Fearless, Poxwalkers will be a better objective baby sitter than Cultists at minimum.

Got to wonder if they have Contagions of Nurgle? New profile, Fearless, and Contagions of Nurgle would be a pretty spicy package for 5 points a model. Not the stay around forever unit of today, but a much more offensively-minded package.

It wouldn't make sense for them NOT to. Hell, lore wise how else would you get Poxwalkers? They'd have to spread their love and joy.

(Fluff) Sense and rules being harmonious isn't necessarily GW's strong point at all times. But having said that, NOT giving poxwalkers one of the new rules DG seem centered around wouldn't make a lot of sense at the same time they are releasing a box with Typhus and 30 poxwalkers.

Disgustingly resilient does the opposite of its fluff in game, so that wouldn't even be the worst offender, unfortunately.

That is what I am worried about. Good ideas and choices led astray seemingly oddly in sake of pushing plague marines by just making say pox walkers not work well with the new mechanics and just leaving them as fearless ( maybe ) toughness 4 objective campers. That would be super boring.

So Felthius, the box is no longer or sale right?
Does he no longer have an entry in the Codex then?

I’ve got his box, converted to 4 regular termies along with a LoC duplicate, for an extra unit of 5.
But i do have a spare box of Felthius that I hadn’t decided what I was doing with yet.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Disgustingly resilient does the opposite of its fluff in game, so that wouldn't even be the worst offender, unfortunately.

With Marines getting W+1 it works perfectly fine representing that resilience if you're not hopelessly hooked on "I need to roll for everything!!!!1!"

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Disgustingly resilient does the opposite of its fluff in game, so that wouldn't even be the worst offender, unfortunately.

With Marines getting W+1 it works perfectly fine representing that resilience if you're not hopelessly hooked on "I need to roll for everything!!!!1!"

Ah yes, the rule with the fluff about it helping them shrug off all but the most grevious of wounds is perfectly represented by doing nothing against the weakest weapons.

Danny76 wrote:
So Felthius, the box is no longer or sale right?
Does he no longer have an entry in the Codex then?

I’ve got his box, converted to 4 regular termies along with a LoC duplicate, for an extra unit of 5.
But i do have a spare box of Felthius that I hadn’t decided what I was doing with yet.

I'm betting Felthius is a Lord of Contagion with Orb of Desiccation.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Disgustingly resilient does the opposite of its fluff in game, so that wouldn't even be the worst offender, unfortunately.

With Marines getting W+1 it works perfectly fine representing that resilience if you're not hopelessly hooked on "I need to roll for everything!!!!1!"

Because no one ever ran Daemon Engines right? Luckily no one ran into mortal wounds either, or they'd be hosed too right now.

Well as others have pointed it on other sites it looks like the Deathshroud keep their 4++. They are keeping their catiphatii armor per the article and didn’t change to relic armor like the loyalists did. The points increase is another clear indication. This is a good indication along with the fact assault terminators gained their 3rd wound and only went up 1pt each. If they don’t have hateful assault or DTTFE as some others believe then it will likely result in a damage nerf and unwarranted points increase. It would have been nice if all attacks hit in a 2+, but for balance reasons I can understand.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Disgustingly resilient does the opposite of its fluff in game, so that wouldn't even be the worst offender, unfortunately.

With Marines getting W+1 it works perfectly fine representing that resilience if you're not hopelessly hooked on "I need to roll for everything!!!!1!"

Well no, because the fluff clearly describes them as being resistant to smaller injuries and the rule only helps against big ones. Damage 1 weapons are the most efficient way to kill them. Would have been far better served by giving them the same DR nurglings have; 5+ against damage 1. But hey, it happens. There's always future editions.

 AngryAngel80 wrote:
Yeah we will need to see what other things can be worked with that buff the pox walkers or how other units can mesh with them. Like will the medic give out FNP ? Will it work with them ? Will they have supporting strats ? Does Typhus augment them still somehow which you'd imagine he does as that is why he's in the combat patrol box now as well. Do they spread contagions and make their, I am assuming still strength 3 less of a problem ?

Base S3 was confirmed in the special rules article, as their base statline was shown in the second section.

broxus wrote:
Well as others have pointed it on other sites it looks like the Deathshroud keep their 4++. They are keeping their catiphatii armor per the article and didn’t change to relic armor like the loyalists did. The points increase is another clear indication. This is a good indication along with the fact assault terminators gained their 3rd wound and only went up 1pt each. If they don’t have hateful assault or DTTFE as some others believe then it will likely result in a damage nerf and unwarranted points increase. It would have been nice if all attacks hit in a 2+, but for balance reasons I can understand.

4++ isn't confirmed yet.

Even without it and without Hateful Assault and DTTFE, they are already a bargain at 50 points each. DWK are considered busted right now, and they are about equivalent in cost and performance.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Is there a breakdown of the Combat Patrol anywhere? Tried OP and ther last 6-7 pages.

Clarified first post

Spoletta wrote:

broxus wrote:
Well as others have pointed it on other sites it looks like the Deathshroud keep their 4++. They are keeping their catiphatii armor per the article and didn’t change to relic armor like the loyalists did. The points increase is another clear indication. This is a good indication along with the fact assault terminators gained their 3rd wound and only went up 1pt each. If they don’t have hateful assault or DTTFE as some others believe then it will likely result in a damage nerf and unwarranted points increase. It would have been nice if all attacks hit in a 2+, but for balance reasons I can understand.

4++ isn't confirmed yet.

Even without it and without Hateful Assault and DTTFE, they are already a bargain at 50 points each. DWK are considered busted right now, and they are about equivalent in cost and performance.

When compared to the new codex units such as the ones in the SM and BA codexes , they fall behind. Not a great deal at 50pts each and an overall damage nerf. If they lose those special rules that is.

Hopefully there is a strategem to help get thier chatlrges off. The changes to rerolls in 9th has made it very hard to get a successful charge off from deep strike.

What damage nerf?

For what it's worth I'm quietly confident they'll keep the 4++.

I feel like GW have made the design decision to eradicate 3++ except for rare cases. The abundance of storm shields for loyalists meant they had to cap relic terminator armour at 5++.

If Blightlords and Deathshroud end up stack at 2+/5++ considering how durable they are meant to be it'll not sit right when you have so many loyalist marine units running around with 1+ 4++.

The DWK comparison is a good one and if anything supports my stance.
DWK are 3pts less that Deathshroud and have 3 wounds at T4 1+ 4++ but permanent transhuman. They also have 3 damage weapons and no -1 to hit so more resilient and more deadly for cheaper.

If our terminators keep their 4++ it puts them on a similar level to storm shield terminators, the T5 will mitigate some of the vulnerability to small arms that the 1+ loyalist armour save has.

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Disgustingly resilient does the opposite of its fluff in game, so that wouldn't even be the worst offender, unfortunately.

With Marines getting W+1 it works perfectly fine representing that resilience if you're not hopelessly hooked on "I need to roll for everything!!!!1!"

Ah yes, the rule with the fluff about it helping them shrug off all but the most grevious of wounds is perfectly represented by doing nothing against the weakest weapons.

Disgustingly Resilient doesn't exist in a vacuum. Plague Marines are also T5 which helps them shrug off wounds from bolters and even heavy bolters.

Rules are abstractions. Don't ask whether Disgustingly Resilient alone represents the toughness of Plague Marines. Ask whether all the rules together do that. I'd say that they do, barring the humble lasgun, which, okay, but who cares they're lasguns. The extra wound is there for that.

Quasistellar wrote:

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Disgustingly resilient does the opposite of its fluff in game, so that wouldn't even be the worst offender, unfortunately.

With Marines getting W+1 it works perfectly fine representing that resilience if you're not hopelessly hooked on "I need to roll for everything!!!!1!"

Ah yes, the rule with the fluff about it helping them shrug off all but the most grevious of wounds is perfectly represented by doing nothing against the weakest weapons.

Disgustingly Resilient doesn't exist in a vacuum. Plague Marines are also T5 which helps them shrug off wounds from bolters and even heavy bolters.

Rules are abstractions. Don't ask whether Disgustingly Resilient alone represents the toughness of Plague Marines. Ask whether all the rules together do that. I'd say that they do, barring the humble lasgun, which, okay, but who cares they're lasguns. The extra wound is there for that.

That's fine if that line of fluff was just for Plague Marines as a whole.

It's not though. It's the fluff text of the actual rule itself; what the rule is meant to represent.

Do you want them to remind you that they're also T5 in the fluff trext of the rule?