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shortymcnostrill wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

Karol wrote:

Reading w40k lore is like painting. Some people like it a lot, majority limit themselfs to what over is obligatory and there is a big group of people that never do it, because they don't care about it.

I'm gonna need some kind of source for this "Majority" of people who hate painting and just do it because it is obligatory..what is the point of playing 40k over pretty much any other game is the fact that you can paint your miniatures to look like your dudes.

Why would you ever choose to play 40k over - as an example - the totally free TTS video game program version of 40k if you didn't care about the hobby aspect?

Converting? Kitbashing, posing, greenstuffing, using plasticard, that's what I like the most. I'll paint my models, but not because I enjoy it so much (eventually... I promise!).

Just commission them to get painted. With my old Necrons and Marines I just did basic silvers and blacks. However with the scheme I'm looking at doing now for my Marines (white/gray or green/blue marbling with almost rusted weapons) I would suck too much to get it correct.

For me, it makes no sense to play this game if I don't build and paint my models. I'm not the best painter, but I prefer playing with my mediocre projects than grey plastic or a commissioned one.

But that's what makes this hobby so cool, everyone enjoys one part of it. I enjoy all of them.

Slayer-Fan123 794465 11008710 wrote:
Just commission them to get painted. With my old Necrons and Marines I just did basic silvers and blacks. However with the scheme I'm looking at doing now for my Marines (white/gray or green/blue marbling with almost rusted weapons) I would suck too much to get it correct.

I bought my army already painted. Only thing that wasn't finished were two rhinos. And they are not painted now, just like they were not painted at the begining of 8th ed.

Seen ton of people order commissions or just never paint their models. With a lot of people playing the game for maybe a year or a year and a half, investing time and money in to painting the models, just to later have problems with selling them or selling them at a lower price because they are painted, is just stupid.

If someone knows they are going to be playing the same army for the next 2 editions, painting probably makes more or even a lot of sense. Specialy if someone has free money, time and space to do it. But good luck finding many 13-15 year olds who know what they are going to be doing in 6 years time.

Karol wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 794465 11008710 wrote:
Just commission them to get painted. With my old Necrons and Marines I just did basic silvers and blacks. However with the scheme I'm looking at doing now for my Marines (white/gray or green/blue marbling with almost rusted weapons) I would suck too much to get it correct.

I bought my army already painted. Only thing that wasn't finished were two rhinos. And they are not painted now, just like they were not painted at the begining of 8th ed.

Seen ton of people order commissions or just never paint their models. With a lot of people playing the game for maybe a year or a year and a half, investing time and money in to painting the models, just to later have problems with selling them or selling them at a lower price because they are painted, is just stupid.

If someone knows they are going to be playing the same army for the next 2 editions, painting probably makes more or even a lot of sense. Specialy if someone has free money, time and space to do it. But good luck finding many 13-15 year olds who know what they are going to be doing in 6 years time.

you shouldnt get into an army with the intention of selling it later on in my opinion. Every army i've got are still on my shelves no matter how bad they might get. The only reason i would sell any of them is if i really needed the money all of a sudden.

Me? I like playing games, & building the models/terrain.

Painting? I'm pretty good +. But aside from terrain, unless I'm being paid, I normally tend to paint my own stuff slowly & randomly. So I have a system where if a model/squad does something noteworthy it "earns paint". 1 model/squad per game at most. Not all games result in paint being earned. Think of it as rewarding the forces MVP.
I paint more, & more focused, though when depressed or stressed out. So the less I'm painting, the better things are.

I have no qualms though about buying already painted stuff, commissioning work, playing with WiP, or even bare metal/resin/plastic....

 Eldarsif wrote:
I try to be optimistic about this. Marine releases means I save money as I have no interest in collecting more Marines or playing them right now.

I am also lucky that a decent portion of my closest friends who play Warhammer are not overtly competitive.

Super lucky. I had my attempt at creating a TTS 40K night for my friends at the beginning of 9th completely wrecked in part because I had one longtime friend who is deeply into the game and obsessed with space marines, amongst a large number of people who were new, and were not so enamored - and were turned off hard to them by Salamanders Aggressors Long-Range Marksmen Successors back when they could double-tap on Overwatch, and who had -2 AP, and +1 to Wound because it was Turn 2 and they were Space Marines, and he was so pleased with himself for ruining a second-game newbie's Defiler charging into them. He couldn't even see why this was wrong, and I spent more of the next month than it was worth explaining to him that, no, CSM were not nearly in so good a place, to no avail to his thick skull.

Gods, the thought of it just makes me want to vomit. The next month was a couple of reasonable games which were in no way worth the stupid nerdfights and strained friendships.

Yeah, 40K just makes me too physically ill to think about right now. I'm going to get off these boards, all 40K news sites, subreddits, feeds, and anything more official than Thingiverse, and just glance in about a year. Maybe when the pandemic is under control, I have a new group to play with, codexes are all out and the bitter taste of Space Marine is finally washed out of my mouth.

Good luck with your 40k hiatus.

 CEO Kasen wrote:

 Eldarsif wrote:
I try to be optimistic about this. Marine releases means I save money as I have no interest in collecting more Marines or playing them right now.

I am also lucky that a decent portion of my closest friends who play Warhammer are not overtly competitive.

Super lucky. I had my attempt at creating a TTS 40K night for my friends at the beginning of 9th completely wrecked in part because I had one longtime friend who is deeply into the game and obsessed with space marines, amongst a large number of people who were new, and were not so enamored - and were turned off hard to them by Salamanders Aggressors Long-Range Marksmen Successors back when they could double-tap on Overwatch, and who had -2 AP, and +1 to Wound because it was Turn 2 and they were Space Marines, and he was so pleased with himself for ruining a second-game newbie's Defiler charging into them. He couldn't even see why this was wrong, and I spent more of the next month than it was worth explaining to him that, no, CSM were not nearly in so good a place, to no avail to his thick skull.

Gods, the thought of it just makes me want to vomit. The next month was a couple of reasonable games which were in no way worth the stupid nerdfights and strained friendships.

Yeah, 40K just makes me too physically ill to think about right now. I'm going to get off these boards, all 40K news sites, subreddits, feeds, and anything more official than Thingiverse, and just glance in about a year. Maybe when the pandemic is under control, I have a new group to play with, codexes are all out and the bitter taste of Space Marine is finally washed out of my mouth.

Whilst I get all that, they must have known they were being a douche with that list before even turning up, surely?

Is there another game where players consistently blame each other for the failings of the creator?

 Eldarain wrote:
Is there another game where players consistently blame each other for the failings of the creator?

pretty much all games that have a competitive and a casual crowd.

I've seen the same thing happen in MTG when people play top tier decks.
I've seen the same thing happen in LoL when people play top tier champs.
I've seen the same thing happen in CoD when people use "noobtubes" and shields.

People complain, this will never change.

 Eldarain wrote:
Is there another game where players consistently blame each other for the failings of the creator?

If you want to get existential, life for some.

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

 Eldarain wrote:
Is there another game where players consistently blame each other for the failings of the creator?

pretty much all games that have a competitive and a casual crowd.

I've seen the same thing happen in MTG when people play top tier decks.
I've seen the same thing happen in LoL when people play top tier champs.
I've seen the same thing happen in CoD when people use "noobtubes" and shields.

People complain, this will never change.

It's not just competitive VS casual, its also a matter of understanding the game itself. The bad match up is competitive skilled vs casual unskilled because there its not just a different mindset that is setting them apart, but a wide variation in game knowledge and skill.

The two mindsets aren't just what sets them apart its a distinct variation in understanding the mechanical side of the game and also experience. The higher skilled player (who doesn't have to be competitive) can have issues trying to "dumb down" their game because its all about making illogical (to them) choices. Meanwhile the unskilled might well not see the issues because they "don't know what they don't know". If they are very casually minded they might also not want to put the time into learning much more than they already do.


In big and diverse groups of players these two approaches can often be fine because there's enough of each mindset to provide games for all. In very high focused groups and/or smaller groups the issues become more problematic. A group that's all competitive can be hard for casuals to get into; meanwhile a small group just won't have the high diversity of players at various skill and approach sets.




Sure some of 40K's internal balance as a game also comes into it; but you'd still get the same issues. Heck MTG has these issues in buckets because a skilled good list can win every single time against a badly made list by an unskilled player. With the only losses being really unlucky shuffling.

 BlaxicanX wrote:
There has never been a time within the last 15+ years that the game was not primarily catered to Imperial armies.

As for the idea that GW is losing customers, though? Objectively that just isn't true. GW has made more money in the past three years than at any other point in its history.

A lot of that is not from models.
Plus McDs is making great money selling garbage that makes people sick. Just because it works in this upside down world doesnt mean that it is a good thing.

 VladimirHerzog wrote:


you shouldnt get into an army with the intention of selling it later on in my opinion. Every army i've got are still on my shelves no matter how bad they might get. The only reason i would sell any of them is if i really needed the money all of a sudden.

40k's rules are not well-made enough for this. An army can go from fun to unplayable at the drop of a hat.

Hecaton wrote:

 VladimirHerzog wrote:


you shouldnt get into an army with the intention of selling it later on in my opinion. Every army i've got are still on my shelves no matter how bad they might get. The only reason i would sell any of them is if i really needed the money all of a sudden.

40k's rules are not well-made enough for this. An army can go from fun to unplayable at the drop of a hat.

I think this sums it up, it's not unplayable unless you were renegades and heretics. Usually a casual collector can add a couple of bits and keep on trucking, it's only the "I own exactly the top 1% 2k list for 1 army" types who get that way.

Try fixing a bad list by adding a couple of bits. Or is it the type of bad, eldar players claim to be in right now?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Eldarain wrote:
Is there another game where players consistently blame each other for the failings of the creator?

Well people aren't writing their own rules. If you have a GK army in 8th, and your opponent plays Inari, then there isn't much blame on the game results on the sidde any of the players. Doesn't even matter if it is pre Inari WD codex or before. The rules writen by GW more or less decide the match up for you. Only the tier 1-2 armies have a more or less fair chance against each other, but there always seems to be a list that is just better then everyone. Like Harlis, which are great vs every army being played right now. So it is not hard to imagine that if your army isn't tier 1 or 2 for 2-3 editions, someone can get angry. Specialy if over those 2-3 editions they paid money for books and models that were suppose to fix this.

Karol wrote:
Try fixing a bad list by adding a couple of bits. Or is it the type of bad, eldar players claim to be in right now?

Can you please just shut the feth up with your constant eldar hate.

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

you shouldnt get into an army with the intention of selling it later on in my opinion. Every army i've got are still on my shelves no matter how bad they might get. The only reason i would sell any of them is if i really needed the money all of a sudden.

Well that is an interesting idea, but even without ever stepping in to a store outside of Poland, I know that the chance that new players stay and play w40k for ever is rather slim. W40k has a big turn over of new player, and those that play it for longer are mostly dudes way over 20 and often in their 30s. Out of the over 30 people that I saw start playing different armies in 8th, only 3 are still playing. And 2 of those are tournament players, whose older brother played tournaments and the 3ed is me. And I have problems with stopping doing stuff.

Karol wrote:

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

you shouldnt get into an army with the intention of selling it later on in my opinion. Every army i've got are still on my shelves no matter how bad they might get. The only reason i would sell any of them is if i really needed the money all of a sudden.

Well that is an interesting idea, but even without ever stepping in to a store outside of Poland, I know that the chance that new players stay and play w40k for ever is rather slim. W40k has a big turn over of new player, and those that play it for longer are mostly dudes way over 20 and often in their 30s. Out of the over 30 people that I saw start playing different armies in 8th, only 3 are still playing. And 2 of those are tournament players, whose older brother played tournaments and the 3ed is me. And I have problems with stopping doing stuff.

you misunderstand my meaning.

you shouldnt get into 40k with the idea that you'll ever sell your army.
You should get in 40k because the game interests you.

And it makes sense that a prepainted army sells for less than NOS stuff.

Here are the people that will buy each level of models :

NOS : litterally anyone that plays or wants to play the army
Assembled : litterally anyone that plays or wants to play the army and doesnt want to do advanced conversions
Painted : Either someone that wants to start a brand new army (You), someone willing to strip and repaint (more work than just NOS/assembled) or if you're ultra lucky, someone that already has an army with the same paintjob.

Notice how less people will want to buy painted stuff? That means low demand, that means you have to sell it cheap to be able to sell it at all.

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

Karol wrote:
Try fixing a bad list by adding a couple of bits. Or is it the type of bad, eldar players claim to be in right now?

Can you please just shut the feth up with your constant eldar hate.

More chance of finding a pacifistic ork warboss!

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

 Eldarain wrote:
Is there another game where players consistently blame each other for the failings of the creator?

pretty much all games that have a competitive and a casual crowd.

I've seen the same thing happen in MTG when people play top tier decks.
I've seen the same thing happen in LoL when people play top tier champs.
I've seen the same thing happen in CoD when people use "noobtubes" and shields.

People complain, this will never change.

As I'm heavily invested in two of those communities, I can only tell you that this is definitely not the case.
When MtG is fethed up, people blame WotC. When LoL is fethed up, people blame Riot. When 40k is fethed up, people blame other people for not playing the game right.

Large parts of the 40k community are just brainwashed like that.

 jeff white wrote:

A lot of that is not from models.

Enough of it is that claims of GW losing money is ridiculous.

Plus McDs is making great money selling garbage that makes people sick. Just because it works in this upside down world doesnt mean that it is a good thing.

"popularity doesn't equal quality" doesn't change the fact that the assertion being made was that GW is losing money- and that is simply, objectively untrue. You don't have to like the direction the game has gone in, but it's a break from reality to try to assert that this direction hasn't proved wildly popular with the fanbase at large.

 Jidmah wrote:

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

 Eldarain wrote:
Is there another game where players consistently blame each other for the failings of the creator?

pretty much all games that have a competitive and a casual crowd.

I've seen the same thing happen in MTG when people play top tier decks.
I've seen the same thing happen in LoL when people play top tier champs.
I've seen the same thing happen in CoD when people use "noobtubes" and shields.

People complain, this will never change.

As I'm heavily invested in two of those communities, I can only tell you that this is definitely not the case.
When MtG is fethed up, people blame WotC. When LoL is fethed up, people blame Riot. When 40k is fethed up, people blame other people for not playing the game right.

Large parts of the 40k community are just brainwashed like that.

i guess our experiences vary a lot then.
I'm a control player and everytime i'd show up at FNM when control was strong, people would personally attack me and tell me that I was the reason the game sucked.
I've seen the same happen with Tron/Blitz/Scapeshift and all that. The complaint is two-part, "Why doenst WotC ban the deck" and "Why are you abusing the deck"

For lol its the same thing really, "why are you abusing yi/kat/zed/yas in low elo".

Its the same complaint i see with 40k. "Eradicators are op, why are you abusing them"

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

i guess our experiences vary a lot then.
I'm a control player and everytime i'd show up at FNM when control was strong, people would personally attack me and tell me that I was the reason the game sucked.
I've seen the same happen with Tron/Blitz/Scapeshift and all that. The complaint is two-part, "Why doenst WotC ban the deck" and "Why are you abusing the deck"

For lol its the same thing really, "why are you abusing yi/kat/zed/yas in low elo".

Its the same complaint i see with 40k. "Eradicators are op, why are you abusing them"

Ehh can't speak to much for MtG, but from what I know control is just seen as "anti-fun" so you are immediately labeled an abuser/lame guy for playing. Same for those champs you mentioned because they can seemingly can get stomped in lane, get a lucky teamfight and just roll the game from there in low elo. But in the latter case, people might flame you for playing it but most players I know/have seen still blame the company for designing/balancing those champs like that in the first place. At the very least they won't say: Riot is perfect and almighty and you should just suck it up. Very much unlike some 40k players for whom GW's word seems gospel and they can do no wrong.

Karol wrote:
Try fixing a bad list by adding a couple of bits. Or is it the type of bad, eldar players claim to be in right now?

Are you implying Eldar aren't bad right now?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Jidmah wrote:


As I'm heavily invested in two of those communities, I can only tell you that this is definitely not the case.
When MtG is fethed up, people blame WotC. When LoL is fethed up, people blame Riot. When 40k is fethed up, people blame other people for not playing the game right.

Large parts of the 40k community are just brainwashed like that.

Plenty of people in League get pissed off at you for playing something perceived as "overpowered", which is to say any high skill-cap high damage usually attack damage character like Yasuo, Zed, Riven, or whoever.

 Void__Dragon wrote:

Karol wrote:
Try fixing a bad list by adding a couple of bits. Or is it the type of bad, eldar players claim to be in right now?

Are you implying Eldar aren't bad right now?

yeah he is. In his mind eldar is an evil army that should be trash tier because his gakky premade GK list couldnt win against eldar flyers and his opponents refused to tone it down to make him enjoy it more.

On one hand he wants eldar to be trash tier then he turns around and cries because his GK arent top tier. Truly toxic.

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

 Void__Dragon wrote:

Karol wrote:
Try fixing a bad list by adding a couple of bits. Or is it the type of bad, eldar players claim to be in right now?

Are you implying Eldar aren't bad right now?

yeah he is. In his mind eldar is an evil army that should be trash tier because his gakky premade GK list couldnt win against eldar flyers and his opponents refused to tone it down to make him enjoy it more.

On one hand he wants eldar to be trash tier then he turns around and cries because his GK arent top tier. Truly toxic.

Eldar players are easily the most entitled players in the game to be fair.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

 Void__Dragon wrote:

Karol wrote:
Try fixing a bad list by adding a couple of bits. Or is it the type of bad, eldar players claim to be in right now?

Are you implying Eldar aren't bad right now?

yeah he is. In his mind eldar is an evil army that should be trash tier because his gakky premade GK list couldnt win against eldar flyers and his opponents refused to tone it down to make him enjoy it more.

On one hand he wants eldar to be trash tier then he turns around and cries because his GK arent top tier. Truly toxic.

Eldar players are easily the most entitled players in the game to be fair.

.....in what possible terms could eldar players be more entitled than fething 'we got 3 codexes in the span of a year while everybody else combined got 3, deal with it, we're the main army that the game is about' marine players?

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

 Void__Dragon wrote:

Karol wrote:
Try fixing a bad list by adding a couple of bits. Or is it the type of bad, eldar players claim to be in right now?

Are you implying Eldar aren't bad right now?

yeah he is. In his mind eldar is an evil army that should be trash tier because his gakky premade GK list couldnt win against eldar flyers and his opponents refused to tone it down to make him enjoy it more.

On one hand he wants eldar to be trash tier then he turns around and cries because his GK arent top tier. Truly toxic.

Eldar players are easily the most entitled players in the game to be fair.

Because they grumble a lot about a large chunk of their army being stuck with fifteen-year-old resin minis?

the_scotsman wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

 Void__Dragon wrote:

Karol wrote:
Try fixing a bad list by adding a couple of bits. Or is it the type of bad, eldar players claim to be in right now?

Are you implying Eldar aren't bad right now?

yeah he is. In his mind eldar is an evil army that should be trash tier because his gakky premade GK list couldnt win against eldar flyers and his opponents refused to tone it down to make him enjoy it more.

On one hand he wants eldar to be trash tier then he turns around and cries because his GK arent top tier. Truly toxic.

Eldar players are easily the most entitled players in the game to be fair.

.....in what possible terms could eldar players be more entitled than fething 'we got 3 codexes in the span of a year while everybody else combined got 3, deal with it, we're the main army that the game is about' marine players?

Imagine considering codex count compared to being the overall most competitive army in the history of the game, especially when you also have third party bitz to make up for whatever lack of models you want to complain about from almighty GW.

Yeah, Eldar players are entitled. Literallg no sympathy for them.