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 gorgon wrote:
Storyboards (including some cool art from Jim Lee) have leaked that break down Snyder's *original* plans for JL2 and 3. It's...um...interesting. It's not all bad and it certainly has an epic sweep...I just don't know where some of Snyder's choices come from.

They can be found here, at least for now...WB may take them down.

https://imgur.com/a/ww6LwAt

I think I’m fine with all of that, save the Bruce/Lois/Supes love triangle. Though now, the team losing and using time travel to undo their loss has already been done by the other guys.

 Ahtman wrote:
Well...that was certainly...something.

Uh...yeah, right?


@Compel -- his original idea was three movies. Which became two, and then one after BvS happened and the studio lost their gak. At least I think that's the play-by-play.

Snyder is a REALLY talented director. I love MoS, although again that was really the Nolans' baby that he directed. But man...some of the choices in those boards. Just...why...does he *have* to do things that will p*ss people off? And how does he not understand that what WB needed from him was big crowd-pleasing stuff? If you want to go dark and experiment, then the solo/side films are a fine place to do that. Let Ayer make Suicide Squad as dark as feth! But the main line JL vein's gotta be fun and make people feel good about the brand.

gak, they needed to sell toys to kids! I mean, I guess it's an opportunity to sell Green Lantern with Exploding Arm(TM) and Sucking Chest Wound Batman(TM) toys.

Still.


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 nels1031 wrote:

 gorgon wrote:
Storyboards (including some cool art from Jim Lee) have leaked that break down Snyder's *original* plans for JL2 and 3. It's...um...interesting. It's not all bad and it certainly has an epic sweep...I just don't know where some of Snyder's choices come from.

They can be found here, at least for now...WB may take them down.

https://imgur.com/a/ww6LwAt

I think I’m fine with all of that, save the Bruce/Lois/Supes love triangle. Though now, the team losing and using time travel to undo their loss has already been done by the other guys.

Superman: The Movie did it first. And honestly...it was lazy writing there too.

Apart from that doesn't sound that bad, but then I thought the Justice League movie we got wasn't that bad either.

The weird bit is it looks like the plan originally was to wrap up the whole DC Movie-verse after a handful of films, rather than have it as an ongoing thing.

So, is it ongoing now? or are DC movies just stand alone?
cause i know Aquaman 2 is planned.

They seem to be really leaning into, 'yeah, directors do whatever you want, we tried the MCU, we screwed it up, just put out films that will make us money please.'

That's been WB's studio brand for decades...the director's studio. I don't think they're ever going to do Feige-style central control well (I mean...look what happened), so it's probably the best approach for them overall.

My impression was that they're aiming for some movies to be 'DCEU'-branded and linked continuity, and others that will be standalone titles so that they can play around a bit more with different properties.

Which is fine, on the surface. I'm more concerned with whether or not the movies are good than with whether or not they share continuity.

That reads like Avengers Endgame,. Mini

Unless there's some agenda at work in the media just cherry picking the positive reactions, it seems that early screenings are overwhelmingly favourable.


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https://screenrant.com/zack-snyder-justice-league-movie-fan-reactions/

There's definitely stuff going on with it. - There was a sweep of identical 'Zack Snyders Justice League is a masterpiece' posts going on twitter a couple of days ago.

Although... I dunno. The fact that all those reviewers are talking about it being lighter in tone... I mean, the $70 million worth of reshoots have to go somewhere, right? And there was that article about how there were people on set nudging the movie to be lighter in tone too, even before Whedon got involved...

Who knows, maybe it DOES come down to hindsight being 20/20 and it being a better film as a result?


There's an extremely petty part of me that is annoyed by this.

Not that it really matters for me, personally, HBOMax doesn't exist in the UK and I'm not going to be going out and buying a daft 24 hour rental of it.

It wasn't $70 mil in reshoots to ready this for HBO Max though. Think he said that it was only about 5 minutes of new (meaning not shot back in 2016 or whatever) footage? All the money undoubtedly went to finishing effects for all the footage that didn't make it into the theatrical cut.

Still, while early reactions seem positive, I expect that to moderate. For one thing, there are some critics who just really do not like anything that Snyder does. Furthermore, there are many more critics who don't have any agenda against the guy, but just find his stuff to be divisive.

Something to really remember about this is that the theatrical cut opened shockingly LOW in terms of box office. And that was when no one knew Whedon had rewritten and reshot so much. Even if, say, a superior 3-hour Snyder cut had been the theatrical release...it still would have opened LOW. Maybe a better movie gets you a better second weekend. But the audience 'well' had already been poisoned by BvS. The interest wasn't there. I don't know that history would have been much different.

I am sure early reviews are abuzz, as they were the people waiting to see the Snyder Cut to begin with.

I do not expect much bang afterwards though. I think Gorgon hit the nail on the head in his analysis.

We'll see.

Justice League's weak opening is probably most directly due to BvS, but it had actually been really good it would have been able to pull interest back in through good word of mouth. The Snyder Cut has had the benefit of some 3 years worth of good word of mouth, so I suspect it will at least make a big splash based on that.

If (IF!) it actually turns out to be really good - well... That's a great comeback story.

... I'd still rather have gotten Man of Steel 2.

Lets remember, the first reviews for BVS were all positive. "Best movie ever made!""Standing applause!"

We don't know anything about the shills that got to see these early screenings and are making these reviews. They literally mean nothing.

 Lance845 wrote:
We don't know anything about the shills that got to see these early screenings and are making these reviews. They literally mean nothing.

Again: We'll see.

It comes out in 3 days, surely we can hold in the name-calling for at least that long.

Film critic Dan Murrell made a video recently on the trends of Rotten Tomatoes scores to fluctuate depending on timing. Reviews are really high among early reviewers, come down a bit the week before release when the most critics release their reviews, and then either spike or plunge during opening weekends, only to taper to a more moderate score over the next couple weeks of release. He has theories on why critic scores do that.

 gorgon wrote:

Something to really remember about this is that the theatrical cut opened shockingly LOW in terms of box office. And that was when no one knew Whedon had rewritten and reshot so much. Even if, say, a superior 3-hour Snyder cut had been the theatrical release...it still would have opened LOW. Maybe a better movie gets you a better second weekend. But the audience 'well' had already been poisoned by BvS. The interest wasn't there. I don't know that history would have been much different.

BvS had one of the biggest first week drops in film history. That definitely hurt, though there wasn't really any positive buzz for JL to turn it around.

 Captain Joystick wrote:
We'll see.

Justice League's weak opening is probably most directly due to BvS, but it had actually been really good it would have been able to pull interest back in through good word of mouth. The Snyder Cut has had the benefit of some 3 years worth of good word of mouth, so I suspect it will at least make a big splash based on that.

If (IF!) it actually turns out to be really good - well... That's a great comeback story.

... I'd still rather have gotten Man of Steel 2.

True, it's totally possible a better JL film with great buzz would have led to much better 'legs' for its box office.

And I do think there will be a *little* critical goodwill toward Snyder just because of the particulars. Everyone knows now that some stuff that went on was pretty disgusting. Namely, the parts where the studio kinda used his daughter's suicide as a cover story, and claimed right up through release that it was still Snyder's movie and vision. The redemption angle has got to buy him a little something in some corners.

I agree totally regarding MoS2. That was the misstep that started the dominos falling. Batman Begins didn't do gangbusters BO either, and wasn't universally loved by critics. But it set things up for a terrific sequel. HOWEVER...it's hard to know if ZS would have delivered the conventional crowdpleaser the franchise needed. Remember that MoS was really the Nolans' idea that Snyder directed. From past comments, it sounds like Snyder really wanted SM to fight Batman so he could kinda/sorta make the TDKR adaptation he always wanted. Even if the studio hadn't been pushing hard for the 'universe'...would MoS2 have looked a lot different from BvS? I'm not sure. Under a different director, certainly. Or with more (quality) studio oversight, perhaps. If Kevin Feige would have produced a MoS2, we probably would have received a more conventional, easily digestible, widely popular, if a little by-the-numbers sequel that did great box office. It just isn't as hard as WB makes it sometimes.

But man, Cavill and his Superman seem absolutely dead to the studio. They had Christopher McQuarrie and Cavill pitch them on a MoS2 and said 'meh'. I'm confident McQuarrie would done a terrific job.

Entertainment Weekly released its review. It kinda goes quite deep into the details of the film and it's really clear that the reviewer did NOT enjoy the film. But also kinda like, overly heavily did NOT enjoy the film, if that makes sense.


Reading it, I think my takeaway is:

It's better than BVS. There's also some actual genuine attempts to lighten the mood from Barry. It is however questionable how successful these attempts are.

But overall, it is basically the same film as Whedons, but Snyderised. So, less cringe (which is good), but more Christ allusions, sweeping shots and GRIMDARK MOODY DRAMA.

The soundtrack fits the film more too, which could be a plus.

So posts here would indicate that some are going to hate this before seeing a single frame because it's Snyder, some are going to hate it because it's DC, some will hate it because it's not the MCU specifically, and anyone that may have a positive view will be called a shill and ignored.

If I wind up liking it I may not even post saying so, it's not worth the Brony level drama it'll induce...

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Film critic Dan Murrell made a video recently on the trends of Rotten Tomatoes scores to fluctuate depending on timing. Reviews are really high among early reviewers, come down a bit the week before release when the most critics release their reviews, and then either spike or plunge during opening weekends, only to taper to a more moderate score over the next couple weeks of release. He has theories on why critic scores do that.

IMO...there are too many yahoos with blogs who get to have a vote. And unlike more established critics, they're under outside pressure to get clicks. This could take the form of a negative pile-on...and I absolutely think that happened with certain DC films...competing to see who could slag it the hardest. Or this could take the form of a glowing review to get views/likes/clicks approval from diehard supporters. And Snyder's truest believer following is certainly...something. I saw that some of them are now going after reviewers giving ZSJL a positive review because said reviewers were critical of Snyder in the past.



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 Just Tony wrote:
So posts here would indicate that some are going to hate this before seeing a single frame because it's Snyder, some are going to hate it because it's DC, some will hate it because it's not the MCU specifically, and anyone that may have a positive view will be called a shill and ignored.

If I wind up liking it I may not even post saying so, it's not worth the Brony level drama it'll induce...

I don't really see that at all.

Personally, my expectations are that it'll probably be better/more satisfying just because it'll be a complete vision and not a Frankenstein monster. Beyond that, we'll have to wait and see. I expect it to be full Snyder straight from the tap, so mileages may vary.

Den Of Geek has given it 2 out of 5, which isn’t exactly glowing.

I think I’m getting morbidly curious about it now. I mean, I’m aware of the behind the scenes issues JL had, and I fully support Snyder’s decision to focus on what is more important in life.

But it was still a pretty awful film. And other than Dawn of the Dead (which is a solid reimagining remake update of a stone cold classic, genre redefining movie) I’ve not really enjoyed his fare - so I’m afraid to say I’m not holding out much hope.

 Just Tony wrote:
So posts here would indicate that some are going to hate this before seeing a single frame because it's Snyder, some are going to hate it because it's DC, some will hate it because it's not the MCU specifically, and anyone that may have a positive view will be called a shill and ignored.

If I wind up liking it I may not even post saying so, it's not worth the Brony level drama it'll induce...

I want to be clear. I am not calling any general audience reviews shills. I am calling the internal reviews that come out of WB private screenings shills.

Does everyone really not remember when the first reviews of BvS were screenings of the movie with WB executives who gave the movie a standing ovation?

This initial wave of "reviews" means nothing because these are LITERALLY people hand picked to sit in a room and watch it. They could be people with bias by being family members of executives or whatever. These "reviews" amount to advertising.

Now that critic reviews are starting to come out we start getting something like a clearer actual picture. But of course one mans worst movie ever is another mans best.


My PERSONAL anticipation for the movie is it will be better than the theatrical because Wheddon is a hack who sucks. But it still won't be good because Snyder hates superheroes and doesn't know how to do them properly. We are still going to get a Batman who kills a building full of people, uses guns, etc... The final scene will still probably take place in a big red hazy empty green screen sound stage.

I am going to watch it. I am HAPPY to watch it. I would LOVE for it to come out as actually good. But this is the version as envisioned by the guy who had Lex Luther put a jar of piss on a ladies desk because he thought thats what that character was about... I mean... what the hell should I expect?

News to me from DoG’s review, if not anyone else? It’s four hours long.

Four. Hours.

If I can rent it for a few quid, might be worth a whirl.

An IGN review just came out giving the film an 8/10, and the guy who wrote it it sounded like he loathed the "original." A lot of the Entertainment Weekly article's points don't make too much sense either (why did they hate Cyborg's CGI so much? It looks fine). I hate to say it, but I think I may be looking forward to watching this version.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
News to me from DoG’s review, if not anyone else? It’s four hours long.

Four. Hours.

If I can rent it for a few quid, might be worth a whirl.

Well if you're paying twice you deserve 2 movies worth of run time

Apparently it’s turning up on Sky and NowTV in the U.K.

Pretty sure I’ve got a free trial option for Now TV’s movies....so could watch it for free?

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
News to me from DoG’s review, if not anyone else? It’s four hours long.

Four. Hours.

If I can rent it for a few quid, might be worth a whirl.

I saw this when it leaked for an hour (someone accidentally replaced Tom & Jerry with it and a bunch of kids got surprised until they fixed it).

Pretty crazy. A 5-6 episode mini series feels a lot more digestible. I have no idea how I'll fit it in, but I get the service as part of a bundle, so I'll try to find a time.

Personally I have no hype for this despite being both a DC fan and someone who enjoys Snyder's craftmanship. The Whedon version was bad, but also clearly a result of a studio trying to contort what they had into something it was never meant to be. That alone will almost certainly make it "better". Whether that results in it actually being "good" depends a lot on what there is to work with and while I think Snyder's pretty talented, his take on the characters hasn't done much for me. I don't really need to spend too much time thinking about whether or not it will be good. I'll just see for myself.

 Flipsiders wrote:
An IGN review just came out giving the film an 8/10, and the guy who wrote it it sounded like he loathed the "original." A lot of the Entertainment Weekly article's points don't make too much sense either (why did they hate Cyborg's CGI so much? It looks fine). I hate to say it, but I think I may be looking forward to watching this version.

That EW reviewer (Franich) hates everything Snyder touches. Like through a red haze. It may not be a good film, but Franich would be the last person's opinion I'd listen to about it. He's like the polar opposite of the Snyder mob on Twitter.




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 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
News to me from DoG’s review, if not anyone else? It’s four hours long.

Four. Hours.

If I can rent it for a few quid, might be worth a whirl.

That's been out there for months. Original plan was a 4-part miniseries, but I *think* that might have become problematic for compensation-related reasons. Like does that now count as four movies or one?

Yeah, I'm sure that would really mess with contracts. That's why New Mutants was in limbo for so long.