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BrianDavion wrote:

Iracundus wrote:
One way to do the updating might be like Blood of the Phoenix in the sense of updating one Phoenix Lord and their Aspect at a time while doing a Charadon-like campaign book, where that Phoenix Lord happens to show up and play a part. That would allow them to dribble out the updating while keeping the main release for newer stuff.

that'd work. let's look at what CWE need updated for a moment. (I'm defining "needs updating" as "is finecast or metal kits" so let's try not to get bogged down in arguing if a plastic model is a bit long in tooth)

- Dark Reapers & Maghun-Ra
-Striking Scorpions & Karandas
- Warp Spiders
-Avatar of Khaine
- Rangers
-Fire Dragons & Feugan
-Asurman


so it'd be easy eneugh to do something along those lines. release Asurman alongside rangers and warp spiders. and then release the other aspects alongside their respective Pheonix Lord. and then do a big fancy Avatar Release and you'd have MOST of the eldar range in plastic. bar some special characters, and the only army that doesn't have any finecast special characters are the new ones that wheren't around during the "fine cast days"

+ Swooping Hawks and Baharroth, Shining Spears, and Storm Guardians (resin upgrade kit). And Illic Nightspear, and Prince Yriel... lots of characters who may get lost in the warp (I see now that you were saying that).

I'd be okay with GW leaving Nightspear and Yriel in resin... if they don't squat them.

EDIT: OH and Warlocks!!!

Karol wrote:
If something like historical justice existed yes.

Historical justice? WTF?

Karol wrote:
Plus it would help them promote maybe a new eldar faction or an updated eldar faction where players would have to replace their collections, instead of just using their Artel and other companies models with a new rule set.

I'm going to go out on a (fairly strong, steel reinforced) limb here and say that 99% of Eldar players have never even heard of Artel, let alone own any.

I can't imagine GW revamping the Eldar line without adding new units, although no idea what these would be (outside of Exodites obviously).

 bullyboy wrote:
I can't imagine GW revamping the Eldar line without adding new units, although no idea what these would be (outside of Exodites obviously).

There's tons of stuff that *could* be added. Would it bloat the range, maybe be inferior to existing stuff? Well yeah, but that's happened with every army revamp we've seen over the last 5 years. GW clearly doesn't mind doing it, and Eldar want/need new kits, so I've embraced it.

The obvious, easy thing are more aspect warriors; hell, it's already established that there are aspects in the fluff that don't exist on the table (Slicing Orbs of Zandros, Crystal Dragons, I know there are more). Then, missing Phoenix Lords; there are several of those that could show up without much deus ex machina.

Then, on the generic character side, you've got bonesingers (which showed up for 1 edition and got legends'ed), more diversity to warlocks, maybe; something that's like a lieutenant-equivalent to an Autarch...

Finally, I'd like to see a split off or update to the Vyper. Dark Eldar and Corsairs have Venoms, Harlequins have Starweavers, Eldar have Vypers and Falcons, but why wouldn't Eldar have an actual zippy, light transport?

Anyway, those are just some ideas I had off the top of my head, you could definitely do more.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Karol wrote:
Plus it would help them promote maybe a new eldar faction or an updated eldar faction where players would have to replace their collections, instead of just using their Artel and other companies models with a new rule set.

I'm going to go out on a (fairly strong, steel reinforced) limb here and say that 99% of Eldar players have never even heard of Artel, let alone own any.

I have been a CWE player since 2012, and have seen a few companies have a go at doing Eldar 'replacements'. I got a couple of kits from ChapterHouse Studios, and saw Artel. 99% is a bit far, as a lot of CWE players have been here for some time.
GW has had a go at updating the line where there were gaps (Warlock and Farseer jetbikes), but I am refusing to buy any more Finecast. The Banshees were nice, but too little effort. I still have a squad of metals.

 Skinnereal wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Karol wrote:
Plus it would help them promote maybe a new eldar faction or an updated eldar faction where players would have to replace their collections, instead of just using their Artel and other companies models with a new rule set.

I'm going to go out on a (fairly strong, steel reinforced) limb here and say that 99% of Eldar players have never even heard of Artel, let alone own any.

I have been a CWE player since 2012, and have seen a few companies have a go at doing Eldar 'replacements'. I got a couple of kits from ChapterHouse Studios, and saw Artel. 99% is a bit far, as a lot of CWE players have been here for some time.
GW has had a go at updating the line where there were gaps (Warlock and Farseer jetbikes), but I am refusing to buy any more Finecast. The Banshees were nice, but too little effort. I still have a squad of metals.

I think you make a good point here. For the Eldar players with metal aspects, the new plastic ones aren't that exciting. I have metal Fire Dragons and Warp Spiders, and I'm pretty happy with both of those kits and my paint jobs. But the finecast stuff? Big oof. I cringe when I look at some Dark Reapers I painted up awhile back... I thought I got rid of all the supports but they're all over the models. And of course, the floppiness of the guns... terrible. I'll be all over those plastic kits, as well as all the other resins that I have (plus I only have 5 Striking Scorpions, hardly an appropriate amount of stealthbois.)

I bought and painted a unit of the new, plastic Banshes. Details are crisp, easy to assemble and surprisingly easy to paint to ma reasonable standard. I think Jes Goodwin's designs have aged extremely well and will definitely vote with my wallet with new plastic Aspect Warriors.

Out of the metal models, I still use Rogue Trader era Reapers, and 4th edition Dragons. I do have a squad of Spiders in Finecast, and I will be very excited for new plastic sculpt.

I've got Artel Rangers, Ghost miniatures Hawks and Spears. Also have a few Hasslefree 'Warlock models for my Warlock Conclave unit. Again, release plastic kits and I'll vote with my wallet.

I'm still shocked Shining Spears didn't get an update when the new jetbikes came out, regardless of whether or not there was a plan to add a Phoenix Lord - considering it'd be one add-on sprue for the Windriders box (and, therefore, probably a small price bump), it seems a low-effort, medium-to-high reward option.

Heck, they could've updated the Autarch-on-jetbike at the same time, and then been able to retire the old jetbike mold entirely.

Someone mentioned options for the Vyper - one that I seem to recall as an interesting option from... 2nd edition, I think, would be to have a Vyper without the gunner's platform, but with a fighting platform for a character on the back. Could be a Saim Hann option, or even a general one, but it could look cool.

I had seen that as a conversion, as an Autarch on a Jetbike.
It worked well, as you'd expect.

It was confusing that they did the Windriders an dWarlocks, but not the Shining Spears and Autarch. Volume-to-effort, I expect.

 Dysartes wrote:
I'm still shocked Shining Spears didn't get an update when the new jetbikes came out, regardless of whether or not there was a plan to add a Phoenix Lord - considering it'd be one add-on sprue for the Windriders box (and, therefore, probably a small price bump), it seems a low-effort, medium-to-high reward option.

Heck, they could've updated the Autarch-on-jetbike at the same time, and then been able to retire the old jetbike mold entirely.

I found these two things utterly baffling as well. I can't understand why you'd design an entire new jetbike kit, but leave the legacy jetbike in the range because of some hybrid kits.

 Dysartes wrote:
Someone mentioned options for the Vyper - one that I seem to recall as an interesting option from... 2nd edition, I think, would be to have a Vyper without the gunner's platform, but with a fighting platform for a character on the back. Could be a Saim Hann option, or even a general one, but it could look cool.

A revamp of the Vyper would be interesting, but I wonder if they wouldn't want it to be too close to the Venom or Starweaver.

Iracundus wrote:
GW has a difficult problem with the CWE as if they spend all their next release slots doing new versions of the Phoenix Lords, Aspect Warriors, or other old units then people will no doubt complain of "nothing new, these are just boring rehashes of old models". Yet if they try to focus on releasing new CWE stuff then people will complain about "why is GW releasing new stuff when so much old stuff still needs updating". If GW tries a little bit of both, both sides will still complain, though personally I think that is what GW will go for. Need some new stuff to entice people who already have it all.

That's a great point, you can't please all the people all of the time. If GW wanted to thread the needle on this one they should do a significant push for both showing their is both new units coming and desperately needed refreshes coming. Just anything but a dripfeed. For instance if they released all plastic Aspect Warriors in one swoop along with something new like an Exodite Kit and promise more to come I think that would satisfy both camps. At least for a time.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
GW can cap off the whole multi-year exercise with the release of the 9th Ed Craftworld Eldar Codex that takes all the rules they players have spent years buying in dribs and drabs, and put them into a single book, completing the ritual, causing every Eldar player to burst into flames for all the wasted years and money.

This bit had me cracking up. Thanks for that!

It is very worrying that we haven't seen any sign of new Eldar in any of the rumour engine pics.

If they put all of the resin Aspect Warriors and Phoenix Lords into plastic (Plus Guardians), that would go a long way. The Avatar would be a bonus.

Then for the new units, they could give us Warpspider and Shining Spear Exarchs.

I still think there's a chance for a limited number of Corsair and Exodite models- perhaps even just a character and unit for each, and they use Ynarri to get them in; Yvraine has reached out to both groups in the fluff, and adding a handful of these units as Ynarri opens the door to fuller ranges for them later, while bumping the Ynarri to Harlequin size.

A unit or two for Harlies would be nice too; I remember a Harlie Wraithlord from an old White Dwarf, but it may have been a conversion using the old metal Harlequin jetbike canopy (which puts the new Harlie jetbike canopy to shame- the whole canopy was a giant mask, rather than having a tiny little face on an otherwise plain canopy).

And of course... Vect!

This is why I want a united flavours of Eldar release... with CWE getting most of the attention, because they need it the most. A campaign series would be a FABULOUS way to make this happen. And the precedent is there- there were two campaigns in 8th. I'm positive there will be two (at least) in 9th.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Dysartes wrote:
Someone mentioned options for the Vyper - one that I seem to recall as an interesting option from... 2nd edition, I think, would be to have a Vyper without the gunner's platform, but with a fighting platform for a character on the back. Could be a Saim Hann option, or even a general one, but it could look cool.

A revamp of the Vyper would be interesting, but I wonder if they wouldn't want it to be too close to the Venom or Starweaver.

I was thinking more of a single-character upgrade rather than a unit transport - a beefier Windrider, sort of thing. Not sure if I'd even want the character to be able to disembark - though, equally, I'm not so sure what characters would be suited to it these days, with Exarchs as Sergeants. I want to say there was a named example of this idea in Codex: Craftworlds back in the day, but I could be wrong on that.

As I said, it might work better if you were to do a Saim Hann supplement (yes, yes, I know...) as a Wild Rider Chieftain option.

@PenitentJake - There already are Shining Spear and Warp Spider Exarchs, dude - I think you're meaning Phoenix Lords. Yeah, the Harlequin Wraithlord (from the Citadel Journal list, I think) was using the RT Harli Jetbike carapace as a faceplate. In terms of units which have existed before, we're missing a Great Harlequin (or renamed equivalent), and Mimes have been around before as a second infantry unit, though without dedicated models, IIRC.

Something tells me we won;t see Vect in a CWE release wave, however Not saying DE don't need some releases, but as their own wave.

I would love it if the new kit was dual use for Guardians and Corsairs. That said the current Guardian kit is very old but its not bad, or at least its not finecast bad.

I'd much prefer they refresh anything Finecast before redoing existing plastic models. Then again I'm still happy to field the original plastic Guardians from 2nd so I'm a bit biased.

PenitentJake wrote:
...I still think there's a chance for a limited number of Corsair and Exodite models- perhaps even just a character and unit for each, and they use Ynarri to get them in; Yvraine has reached out to both groups in the fluff, and adding a handful of these units as Ynarri opens the door to fuller ranges for them later, while bumping the Ynarri to Harlequin size...

You could bring Corsairs most of the way back with an upgrade sprue or two (and maybe a character blister or two, though I'd prefer an Exalted Sorcerers-style box of several characters with loads of alternate parts); if there were new/better Rangers and Guardians to upgrade you could get Reavers, Cloud Dancers, Ghostwalkers, Balestrike squads, and Felarchs all out of those and the jetbike kit, and the rest is just mixing and matching the Craftworld and DE motor pools. Of course if you wanted to get fancy you could stick sprues in the Falcon kit to make a Firestorm or Warp Hunter, or extra sprues in the War Walker kit to make a War Walker/Wasp dual-kit, or make a plastic Lynx, Craftworld Venom, Hornet, Cobra/Scorpion kit, Phoenix, Nightwing, or bring the Vampire back, all of which would be icing on the cake and would add to the Craftworld roster as well.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Dysartes wrote:
Someone mentioned options for the Vyper - one that I seem to recall as an interesting option from... 2nd edition, I think, would be to have a Vyper without the gunner's platform, but with a fighting platform for a character on the back. Could be a Saim Hann option, or even a general one, but it could look cool.

A revamp of the Vyper would be interesting, but I wonder if they wouldn't want it to be too close to the Venom or Starweaver.

Eh. Every "elf" army other than the Craftworlders has a Venom (DE Venom, the gutted remains of the Corsairs rules can still use the Venom, Harlequin Starweaver is just a Venom), I don't think there would be anything wrong with doing a Craftworld Venom. The Rhino appears in, what, six Codexes these days?

 dan2026 wrote:
It is very worrying that we haven't seen any sign of new Eldar in any of the rumour engine pics.

I think it's a good thing. It seems to me that rumour engine pics are often used to showcase fairly small releases eg warbands or codex-accompanying single characters. When there's a large revamp coming - I'm thinking of Necrons as one example - we often don't see anything on the RE at all.

Can't have a CWE Venom, it might make Fire Dragons almost playable

 dan2026 wrote:
It is very worrying that we haven't seen any sign of new Eldar in any of the rumour engine pics.

There was this one from April https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/04/20/the-rumour-engine-20th-april-2021/

Appears to be an eldar hand with a floating control panel.

 Dysartes wrote:


@PenitentJake - There already are Shining Spear and Warp Spider Exarchs, dude - I think you're meaning Phoenix Lords. Yeah, the Harlequin Wraithlord (from the Citadel Journal list, I think) was using the RT Harli Jetbike carapace as a faceplate. In terms of units which have existed before, we're missing a Great Harlequin (or renamed equivalent), and Mimes have been around before as a second infantry unit, though without dedicated models, IIRC.

Something tells me we won;t see Vect in a CWE release wave, however Not saying DE don't need some releases, but as their own wave.

Yep, you're right- I meant Phoenix Lords... Distracted posting again!

I thought there was a great harlequin, but wasn't sure enough to mention it. And yeah, an image search for Harlequin Wraithlord pretty much confirmed the conversion point.

And yeah, I agree, Vect IS a longshot... But man, it's such an opportunity for GW to built another centrepiece model. Every time a DE wave comes and goes without him, I just scratch my head and wonder why. Part of me thinks our big bad dex was written to pull people in so that they have a better market for Vect when he comes. A second campaign cycle could mean a second wave for armies that didn't get a much love in their first wave. Here's hoping.

I completely agree, there's been so many center piece models released the last two years I was surprised they didn't do one for Vect. Certainly a head scratcher.

I don't want a Vect model. He isn't supposed to be a combat monster, but rather a manipulator behind the scenes.

I'd trade him in a heartbeat for a Kheradruakh the Decapitator or Baron Sathonyx option.

The idea of redoing the Asuryani stuff with the option to build them as Corsairs would be marvelous though.

The fall of the Eldar has nothing to do with Slaanesh but with the reduced range of the shuriken catapults (reduced from 24" to 12").

 Strg Alt wrote:
The fall of the Eldar has nothing to do with Slaanesh but with the reduced range of the shuriken catapults (reduced from 24" to 12").

So, nearly 25 years ago?

Karol wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
You honestly think GW would give a massive new Avatar model that towers over the previous one the exact same rules that it has now?

If something like historical justice existed yes. Plus it would help them promote maybe a new eldar faction or an updated eldar faction where players would have to replace their collections, instead of just using their Artel and other companies models with a new rule set.

historical justice? not sure what you're saying so I'll generously assume this is a translation issue. In this case however the Precident for GW's actions is against that. when the greater deamons where given their new models, GW gave them coraspondingly greater stats to match their new massive size

 harlokin wrote:
I don't want a Vect model. He isn't supposed to be a combat monster, but rather a manipulator behind the scenes.

I'd trade him in a heartbeat for a Kheradruakh the Decapitator or Baron Sathonyx option.

The idea of redoing the Asuryani stuff with the option to build them as Corsairs would be marvelous though.

Kheradruakh and Sathonyx are actually my two favourite nuked HQ's. I see your point about Vect, but I loved that classic model, and I would raid the entire galaxy to see what GW could do with that concept in the modern era of model design. If they gave us Kheradruakh, they'd have to give us plastic Mandrakes to go with him... Which would be a bonus.

PenitentJake wrote:

 harlokin wrote:
I don't want a Vect model. He isn't supposed to be a combat monster, but rather a manipulator behind the scenes.

I'd trade him in a heartbeat for a Kheradruakh the Decapitator or Baron Sathonyx option.

The idea of redoing the Asuryani stuff with the option to build them as Corsairs would be marvelous though.

Kheradruakh and Sathonyx are actually my two favourite nuked HQ's. I see your point about Vect, but I loved that classic model, and I would raid the entire galaxy to see what GW could do with that concept in the modern era of model design. If they gave us Kheradruakh, they'd have to give us plastic Mandrakes to go with him... Which would be a bonus.

That would be great....something like:

New plastic Baharroth and Swooping Hawks vs new Baron Sathonyx and (old) Hellions
New plastic Karandras and Striking Scorpions vs new plastic Kheradruakh the Decapitator and Mandrakes
New plastic Fuegan and Fire Dragons vs new plastic Urien Rakarth and Grotesques

 AnomanderRake wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 The Red Hobbit wrote:
With the upcoming Exodite movie and the recently revealed Beast Snaggas for Orks I wouldn't be surprised if they drop some Exodite kits in the future.

I look forward to the CWE tears when eldar get an entire new faction and they're still using 25 year old finecast kits........ (actually I really don't)

And the people who get super-offended when the old folks accuse GW of "replacing" their old armies with a different army they don't like instead of making their stuff work/doing better resculpts will all explode.

Except that GW isn't 'replacing' orks with Beast Snaggaz in any way.

I don't like Beast Snaggas - but hey, I get a new plastic painboy with a mobility option, I get a new plastic weirdboy, i get a new plastic mega-armored warboss, and I get new boyz. And that might not even be all of it!

honestly given GW's tend of releasing new models in box sets I am hoping our redesigned aspect warriors are trickled in 2 at a time in a few box sets over the next few years. I personally hope fire dragosn get the firs tone, i would love to see firedragons using the current level of detail we see in plastic vs the old one looking like a guardian with a slightly different hat and longer guns

 the_scotsman wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 The Red Hobbit wrote:
With the upcoming Exodite movie and the recently revealed Beast Snaggas for Orks I wouldn't be surprised if they drop some Exodite kits in the future.

I look forward to the CWE tears when eldar get an entire new faction and they're still using 25 year old finecast kits........ (actually I really don't)

And the people who get super-offended when the old folks accuse GW of "replacing" their old armies with a different army they don't like instead of making their stuff work/doing better resculpts will all explode.

Except that GW isn't 'replacing' orks with Beast Snaggaz in any way.

I don't like Beast Snaggas - but hey, I get a new plastic painboy with a mobility option, I get a new plastic weirdboy, i get a new plastic mega-armored warboss, and I get new boyz. And that might not even be all of it!

Replacing is not the write choice of words. One can still play first born Marines, but the differences in utility between first born and primaris are significant. I just played a few games against a first born Ultramarine army and my opponent lamented how many stratagems don't apply to them, less AP for shooting, less attacks in assault, etc...

You can still utilize the old models, but the rules are being written with an emphasis on the newer models.

This is a bit of a fear I have about an upcoming Craftworld book; GW creates several entirely new units with solid rules and does not update a lot of outdated models with most of their rules being 'meh'. I'll admit that I will be one of the folks who will buy them, but that will be a bit of a let down as I've got nearly 20,000 points of fully painted Craftworld models. Time will tell.