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I'd be happy to see a true mass battle style game for the Old World in 15mm.

I'd also be happy to see an AoS scale Old World using the round bases in square trays approach. It would make a lot of sense in a cross recruitment sense especially if the core units are compatible but the high profit margin kits are kept system locked.

With recent Chaos and Undead Units looking completely at home in the Old World it could come true.

If the new Fantasy is in a smaller scale, then i'm out.

One more thing that comes to mind: Would GW be able to "claim" Creative Assembly's 3D sculpts and re-use them in a lower resolution?
Not sure how their contract is set up, but as the copyright holder I'd imagine they have some leverage there to at least iterate on them.

"Smallhammer" seems to be an astonishingly popular concept, the last few months it really does seem like I'm seeing more people who would support (or would *only* support) a 15mm or smaller range than I am people who would only buy 28mm. When you consider that 15mm means you would have to buy an entirely new line of minis, vs 28+mm supporters have a large number of people insisting they will use their legacy minis or buy 3rd party, it really does make it seem like smallhammer is a viable choice (and possibly even the more likely choice).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 BertBert wrote:
One more thing that comes to mind: Would GW be able to "claim" Creative Assembly's 3D sculpts and re-use them in a lower resolution?
Not sure how their contract is set up, but as the copyright holder I'd imagine they have some leverage there to at least iterate on them.

Would depend how CA models their game assets, etc. Its not entirely out of the question, but even if they could claim them, its not as easy as typing in a scale multiplier and hitting print, theres a dramatic amount of rework that would likely be involved in converting them into a manufacturable product unless GW and CA integrated and cooperated closely enough that CAs 3d artists sculpted with manufacturing in mind from the get-go.

 Sabotage! wrote:
Most of the people who were interested in playing WHFB moved on to 9th age, and having quite a few friends that now play it, I doubt they would move back.

Definitely going to disagree with your statement of "most". Most people that went to T9A were people already playing by ETC rules. The rest went to Kow, kept with 8th, went to Warhammer Army Project's 9th Ed(especially after the big changes to T9A split that community further), or went back to 6th/7th. There's literally NO consensus from WHFB players, much less "most", as to which rules to play. The end of 8th caused a massive rift in the community that saw them scattershot FAST rather than universally migrate.

chaos0xomega wrote:
"Smallhammer" seems to be an astonishingly popular concept, the last few months it really does seem like I'm seeing more people who would support (or would *only* support) a 15mm or smaller range than I am people who would only buy 28mm. When you consider that 15mm means you would have to buy an entirely new line of minis, vs 28+mm supporters have a large number of people insisting they will use their legacy minis or buy 3rd party, it really does make it seem like smallhammer is a viable choice (and possibly even the more likely choice).

Bear cavalry... How is that going to be 15mm ? Plus all the concept at rich in detail? Not o mention WHT3 dropping imminently and we know kislev is going to be main faction.

28mm Bear cav, Nippon, or cathay minis... Nobody will have those models from Legacy WHFB or AOS...
GW makes models. Detailed models they can show off painted and huge upsales from the hobby side. You cant paint 15mm are more to the point most people will nto wnat to paint 15mm scae.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Platuan4th wrote:

 Sabotage! wrote:
Most of the people who were interested in playing WHFB moved on to 9th age, and having quite a few friends that now play it, I doubt they would move back.

Definitely going to disagree with your statement of "most". Most people that went to T9A were people already playing by ETC rules. The rest went to Kow, kept with 8th, went to Warhammer Army Project's 9th Ed(especially after the big changes to T9A split that community further), or went back to 6th/7th. There's literally NO consensus from WHFB players, much less "most", as to which rules to play. The end of 8th caused a massive rift in the community that saw them scattershot FAST rather than universally migrate.

People in my area mostly play 7th / old editions.

 BertBert wrote:
One more thing that comes to mind: Would GW be able to "claim" Creative Assembly's 3D sculpts and re-use them in a lower resolution?
Not sure how their contract is set up, but as the copyright holder I'd imagine they have some leverage there to at least iterate on them.

Not sure GW would want to do that. I also doubt the game assets will have the exact details GW has put into the designs at a usable level for models.

chaos0xomega wrote:
"Smallhammer" seems to be an astonishingly popular concept, the last few months it really does seem like I'm seeing more people who would support (or would *only* support) a 15mm or smaller range than I am people who would only buy 28mm. When you consider that 15mm means you would have to buy an entirely new line of minis, vs 28+mm supporters have a large number of people insisting they will use their legacy minis or buy 3rd party, it really does make it seem like smallhammer is a viable choice (and possibly even the more likely choice).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 BertBert wrote:
One more thing that comes to mind: Would GW be able to "claim" Creative Assembly's 3D sculpts and re-use them in a lower resolution?
Not sure how their contract is set up, but as the copyright holder I'd imagine they have some leverage there to at least iterate on them.

Would depend how CA models their game assets, etc. Its not entirely out of the question, but even if they could claim them, its not as easy as typing in a scale multiplier and hitting print, theres a dramatic amount of rework that would likely be involved in converting them into a manufacturable product unless GW and CA integrated and cooperated closely enough that CAs 3d artists sculpted with manufacturing in mind from the get-go.

As far as I recall from reading some article regarding the relationship - GW has reserved rights to any sculpts/ IP. CA is renting warhammer IP and GW flips out its big fat &^%% and tells them what they can and cant change whenever they feel like it. TW franchise is CA's golden egg goose.

 Argive wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:
"Smallhammer" seems to be an astonishingly popular concept, the last few months it really does seem like I'm seeing more people who would support (or would *only* support) a 15mm or smaller range than I am people who would only buy 28mm. When you consider that 15mm means you would have to buy an entirely new line of minis, vs 28+mm supporters have a large number of people insisting they will use their legacy minis or buy 3rd party, it really does make it seem like smallhammer is a viable choice (and possibly even the more likely choice).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 BertBert wrote:
One more thing that comes to mind: Would GW be able to "claim" Creative Assembly's 3D sculpts and re-use them in a lower resolution?
Not sure how their contract is set up, but as the copyright holder I'd imagine they have some leverage there to at least iterate on them.

Would depend how CA models their game assets, etc. Its not entirely out of the question, but even if they could claim them, its not as easy as typing in a scale multiplier and hitting print, theres a dramatic amount of rework that would likely be involved in converting them into a manufacturable product unless GW and CA integrated and cooperated closely enough that CAs 3d artists sculpted with manufacturing in mind from the get-go.

As far as I recall from reading some article regarding the relationship - GW has reserved rights to any sculpts/ IP. CA is renting warhammer IP and GW flips out its big fat &^%% and tells them what they can and cant change whenever they feel like it. TW franchise is CA's golden egg goose.

All of the designs for the new stuff originates from the GW design team anyway, according to things both sides have stated.

Togusa wrote:

IHateAoS wrote:
Not interested in monopose orcs.

I'm stunned by the Cadian update.

So now they can increase the price of a 20 year old kit with a lazy upgrade sprue. Great. This could mean no IG update for another 10 years, or maybe they're just keeping the grognards (who like their squat mutants) happy for now and will eventually release some 'not Cadians'.

Simmer down there. There are literally clear examples of new Guard models in the Rumor Engine pictures. It may not be Cadians, it could be a guard version of Snaggas. "Cawls Defense Forces" or something like that which could be taken by any regiment, but have special equipment and better training. Also, while the upgrade sprue might seem lazy, I'm already seeing extremely positive reactions to it online and irl. It's smart by business standards and extends the life of the models.

What do you mean simmer down? Aren't you just repeating what I said?

Anyways, I think this confirms there won't be new Cadians. Whether that means new Catachans instead, or something completely different remains to be seen. I think the whole IG line needs a redo and it looks like it's not gonna happen any time soon. In the end I save money, so it's a bittersweet feeling.

 Platuan4th wrote:

 Argive wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:
"Smallhammer" seems to be an astonishingly popular concept, the last few months it really does seem like I'm seeing more people who would support (or would *only* support) a 15mm or smaller range than I am people who would only buy 28mm. When you consider that 15mm means you would have to buy an entirely new line of minis, vs 28+mm supporters have a large number of people insisting they will use their legacy minis or buy 3rd party, it really does make it seem like smallhammer is a viable choice (and possibly even the more likely choice).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 BertBert wrote:
One more thing that comes to mind: Would GW be able to "claim" Creative Assembly's 3D sculpts and re-use them in a lower resolution?
Not sure how their contract is set up, but as the copyright holder I'd imagine they have some leverage there to at least iterate on them.

Would depend how CA models their game assets, etc. Its not entirely out of the question, but even if they could claim them, its not as easy as typing in a scale multiplier and hitting print, theres a dramatic amount of rework that would likely be involved in converting them into a manufacturable product unless GW and CA integrated and cooperated closely enough that CAs 3d artists sculpted with manufacturing in mind from the get-go.

As far as I recall from reading some article regarding the relationship - GW has reserved rights to any sculpts/ IP. CA is renting warhammer IP and GW flips out its big fat &^%% and tells them what they can and cant change whenever they feel like it. TW franchise is CA's golden egg goose.

All of the designs for the new stuff originates from the GW design team anyway, according to things both sides have stated.

The way i understood it they agree on some concept art and then GW green lights any assets moving forward

 Argive wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Platuan4th wrote:

 Sabotage! wrote:
Most of the people who were interested in playing WHFB moved on to 9th age, and having quite a few friends that now play it, I doubt they would move back.

Definitely going to disagree with your statement of "most". Most people that went to T9A were people already playing by ETC rules. The rest went to Kow, kept with 8th, went to Warhammer Army Project's 9th Ed(especially after the big changes to T9A split that community further), or went back to 6th/7th. There's literally NO consensus from WHFB players, much less "most", as to which rules to play. The end of 8th caused a massive rift in the community that saw them scattershot FAST rather than universally migrate.

People in my area mostly play 7th / old editions.

Yup, it very much seems to be a regional thing as each group decides amongst themselves which to play. I know there's a decent sized 8th group in DFW.

 Brutus_Apex wrote:
If the new Fantasy is in a smaller scale, then i'm out.

Agreed.

IHateAoS wrote:

 Brutus_Apex wrote:
If the new Fantasy is in a smaller scale, then i'm out.

Agreed.

I've said time and again, a different scale will make TOW DOA. Yes, there's a vocal contingent that wants smaller, but across several boards and groups, they're definitely a minority and I doubt there's enough of them to make it a viable risk for GW.

 Argive wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:
"Smallhammer" seems to be an astonishingly popular concept, the last few months it really does seem like I'm seeing more people who would support (or would *only* support) a 15mm or smaller range than I am people who would only buy 28mm. When you consider that 15mm means you would have to buy an entirely new line of minis, vs 28+mm supporters have a large number of people insisting they will use their legacy minis or buy 3rd party, it really does make it seem like smallhammer is a viable choice (and possibly even the more likely choice).

Bear cavalry... How is that going to be 15mm ? Plus all the concept at rich in detail? Not o mention WHT3 dropping imminently and we know kislev is going to be main faction.

28mm Bear cav, Nippon, or cathay minis... Nobody will have those models from Legacy WHFB or AOS...
GW makes models. Detailed models they can show off painted and huge upsales from the hobby side. You cant paint 15mm are more to the point most people will nto wnat to paint 15mm scae.

You sound like someone thats never touched a 15mm mini before tbh, or is wholly unaware of the existence of Warmaster... kinda awkward tbh, heres a 10mm bear cavalry mini that GW made about 10-15 years ago:



You'll have to google more photos for yourself, a lot of them don't allow linking.

Scale it up 50% and add a whole lot of capability improvements in terms of GWs ability to model digitally and produce high-precision and high-detail plastic kits in-house, and its pretty clear theres not much of an argument here. The amount of detail that some companies are able to pack into the 6mm through 15mm scale minis is quite frankly insane, theres no reason to believe that GW wouldn't be able to blow them out of hte water.

PS, heres some amazingly painted 15mm minis for you, I'm sure the people who painted them would love to hear about how you can't paint minis at that scale:








Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Argive wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:
"Smallhammer" seems to be an astonishingly popular concept, the last few months it really does seem like I'm seeing more people who would support (or would *only* support) a 15mm or smaller range than I am people who would only buy 28mm. When you consider that 15mm means you would have to buy an entirely new line of minis, vs 28+mm supporters have a large number of people insisting they will use their legacy minis or buy 3rd party, it really does make it seem like smallhammer is a viable choice (and possibly even the more likely choice).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 BertBert wrote:
One more thing that comes to mind: Would GW be able to "claim" Creative Assembly's 3D sculpts and re-use them in a lower resolution?
Not sure how their contract is set up, but as the copyright holder I'd imagine they have some leverage there to at least iterate on them.

Would depend how CA models their game assets, etc. Its not entirely out of the question, but even if they could claim them, its not as easy as typing in a scale multiplier and hitting print, theres a dramatic amount of rework that would likely be involved in converting them into a manufacturable product unless GW and CA integrated and cooperated closely enough that CAs 3d artists sculpted with manufacturing in mind from the get-go.

As far as I recall from reading some article regarding the relationship - GW has reserved rights to any sculpts/ IP. CA is renting warhammer IP and GW flips out its big fat &^%% and tells them what they can and cant change whenever they feel like it. TW franchise is CA's golden egg goose.

yeah, but modeling for video games and modeling for plastics production are two very different things. There is a degree of overlap between them, but that doesn't mean that CAs staff knows how to fill in the parts needed to make the designs manufacturable. GW reserving rights to the models is fairly typical for licensing and doesn't mean anything in terms of the ability to actual manufacture them.

I've said time and again, a different scale will make TOW DOA. Yes, there's a vocal contingent that wants smaller, but across several boards and groups, they're definitely a minority and I doubt there's enough of them to make it a viable risk for GW.

Can you prove theyre a minority? Ive yet to see a poll on the topic, but my own observation is that theres more people pro-15 or smaller than there are anti-15 or smaller... which would make the smallhammer contingent a *majority*.

HEY EVERYONE. That Twitter screenshot about the old world is fake. There is no such account.

Chikout wrote:
HEY EVERYONE. That Twitter screenshot about the old world is fake. There is no such account.

Yeah, i questioned the same earlier, waiting for someone to elaborate on where it was sourced from (i.e. was it an account that was deleted between may 5th and today, or was it actually a photo-edit/fake).

chaos0xomega wrote:

 Mentlegen324 wrote:

 BertBert wrote:
The dream is alive, folks.

They tease that and hype it up with things like the teaser even showing the square bases again

You do know that plenty of games in the 2mm-15mm range use square bases... right? Like, I don't get this logic or hangup, "NOOOO GW PROMISED US SQUARE BASES, THAT MEANS 28MM!". FFS, Epic was on square and rectangular bases and that was 6mm.

Yes, other games they've made have used square bases....but the one people remember most fondly, that they know people wanted a return to, that comes to mind first and was their most 'recent' game to use square bases, is WHFB.

"They do all that for well over a year.....and then suddenly go "Oh, we forgot to tell you, this isn't really anything to do with the WHFB game! This is a Warmaster reboot, woops!"?

They were pretty clear that the only thing they had actually figured out for TOW at the time of the announcement was the name and nothing else, and that the were only just starting to work on development, etc. Any reasonable minded individual would have interpreted that to mean "literally anything is possible" rather than "this is a WHFB reboot", because if it was a WHFB reboot they would have outright stated it as such.

chaos0xomega wrote:

Chikout wrote:
HEY EVERYONE. That Twitter screenshot about the old world is fake. There is no such account.

Yeah, i questioned the same earlier, waiting for someone to elaborate on where it was sourced from (i.e. was it an account that was deleted between may 5th and today, or was it actually a photo-edit/fake).

It was from 4chan and almost certainly fake. I also didn't want to portray it as a proof, just as a tongue in cheek remark to get the discussion going in anticipation of the big reveal tomorrow. Smallhammer is still a rather long shot in my view, but it's fun to theorise about it.

 Mentlegen324 wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:

 Mentlegen324 wrote:

 BertBert wrote:
The dream is alive, folks.

They tease that and hype it up with things like the teaser even showing the square bases again

You do know that plenty of games in the 2mm-15mm range use square bases... right? Like, I don't get this logic or hangup, "NOOOO GW PROMISED US SQUARE BASES, THAT MEANS 28MM!". FFS, Epic was on square and rectangular bases and that was 6mm.

Yes, other games they've made have used square bases....but the one people remember most fondly, that they know people wanted a return to, that comes to mind first and was their most 'recent' game to use square bases, is WHFB.

"They do all that for well over a year.....and then suddenly go "Oh, we forgot to tell you, this isn't really anything to do with the WHFB game! This is a Warmaster reboot, woops!"?

They were pretty clear that the only thing they had actually figured out for TOW at the time of the announcement was the name and nothing else, and that the were only just starting to work on development, etc. Any reasonable minded individual would have interpreted that to mean "literally anything is possible" rather than "this is a WHFB reboot", because if it was a WHFB reboot they would have outright stated it as such.

chaos0xomega wrote:
if they can change the setting, they can change literally everything else about it.

I mean, sure, they can do anything, but they've changed the setting multiple times(WHFRP1 killing Karl Franz and electing a new Emperor, retconning Storm of Chaos and Malekith's invasion of Ulthuan, Tamurkhan originally being an entirely separate timeline just to name a few) without changing the base facts of the game itself.

 Platuan4th wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:
if they can change the setting, they can change literally everything else about it.

I mean, sure, they can do anything, but they've changed the setting multiple times(WHFRP1 killing Karl Franz and electing a new Emperor, retconning Storm of Chaos and Malekith's invasion of Ulthuan, Tamurkhan originally being an entirely separate timeline just to name a few) without changing the base facts of the game itself.

This entire conversation basically goes back to what I said previously - you're incapable of acknowledging the possibility, and therefore not debating the point in good faith. In less kind terms, you're in a whole lot of denial if you're unable to recognize that there is a potential for a different scale.

You need to read better then. I have stated in the past it's a possibility, it's just a bad idea for them to actually do so.

SO, how about we leave the 15mm WHFB speculation for a different thread?

Feel free to revisit it here if it does turn out to be the next reveal, obviously...

Edit: Replied before I saw the mod post.

Anyone else bummed that when they redid the Ghosts they seem to have 'forgotten' the female Ghosts?

As far as the Cadian upgrade sprue goes, I like it and would welcome the same kind of treatment for the ancient Catachan box set.

 BaronIveagh wrote:
Anyone else bummed that when they redid the Ghosts they seem to have 'forgotten' the female Ghosts?

Apparently the miniatures are from a very early stage in the series where there were no named female members yet. The medic and the piper boy from their previous iteration are not included either.

 BertBert wrote:

 BaronIveagh wrote:
Anyone else bummed that when they redid the Ghosts they seem to have 'forgotten' the female Ghosts?

Apparently the miniatures are from a very early stage in the series where there were no named female members yet. The medic and the piper boy from their previous iteration are not included either.

And still no MkVenner or Varl.

 BertBert wrote:

 BaronIveagh wrote:
Anyone else bummed that when they redid the Ghosts they seem to have 'forgotten' the female Ghosts?

Apparently the miniatures are from a very early stage in the series where there were no named female members yet. The medic and the piper boy from their previous iteration are not included either.

Well, they could have chosen a later stage of the series.