Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 kodos wrote:
GW started as European distributor of D&D

Wikipedia lied to me ‘ Games Workshop was originally a manufacturer of wooden boards for games including backgammon, mancala, nine men's morris, and Go.’

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
It was fun when the Techmarine showed up at the docking area to see what was going on.

MaxT wrote:
So you have no response, so go for an ad hominem instead?

He didn't say you were sad and pathetic, he said your post was. There's a difference.

And it was, because your comparisons were very silly. I could just as easily go:

Disney+ MCU movies = 22. Warhammer+ MCU movies = 0

... and it would be just as true, and just as meaningless. Don't make vacuous fallacy arguments.

Correct. The initial argument that Disney+ had 200 hours or whatever of content and Warhammer+ having 4 is equally as true, equally as meaningless, and equally vacuous and fallacious.

What baffles me is why White Dwarf is allowed to go unmolested when everything else in the Vault isn't.

How do you mean?

Just one animation again this week, and no lore masters...

As much as the Vindicare is a nice model, it doesn't represent value at the current release rate for a subscription for me, I feel like I'll actually be paying £30+ for the model at this rate, rather than it being a free/added bonus for subscribing for the year. The voucher also doesn't hold too much value, I'm effectively getting a £5 voucher if I keep the subscription for another month after this which I do not want to now.

I'll be cancelling my subscription and picking it up for a month or so at some point next year to binge some shows. I haven't got FOMO about the current shows, I don't feel as if they can be spoiled, and even if they do, it wouldn't ruin watching them for me.

Very poor release amount. And the narrative game may be fun to watch, one a month also isn't enough to keep it for me.

I'm not a GW hater by any means, like many I have felt a bit let down by them in their practices in the past but overall I'm usually happy with the product still. This feels like a cash grab though to be honest. I'm also aware they may be running at a significant loss that would recoup in years to come, but it is evident now that there isn't enough of a stable footing (content) to build upon.

And like I said before, warhammer+ was sold on the animation mainly and other videos, everything else is an added perk, the vaultt doens't hold much value to myself other than being a niche time filler.

Also, where on earth has hammer and bolter disappeared too?

 endlesswaltz123 wrote:

Also, where on earth has hammer and bolter disappeared too?

The same place all of GW's money went when they were making this thing

It really seems that gw doesn't have the resources to be able to make a such a service worthwhile.

There's some interesting content, but they should have used another model to sell them. As is, the comparaison to other streaming services is to easy to make, and doesn't make W+ look good

 streetsamurai wrote:
It really seems that gw doesn't have the resources to be able to make a such a service worthwhile.

There's some interesting content, but they should have used another model to sell them. As is, the comparaison to other streaming services is to easy to make, and doesn't make W+ look good

It's funny because if all they let you a subscription to at least access all current Codexes/Battletomes (ideally older ones too, but come on, let's not get too deep into fantasy land) it'd probably be heralded by most people as a brilliant service with everything else as a bonus provided it remained in the £5-£7.50 range.

GW being the digital dinosaurs they are will probably get the hint in another five years and still be praised to high heavens for their genius though.

 Overread wrote:
How do you mean?

Rule deletion etc.

 Arbitrator wrote:
It's funny because if all they let you a subscription to at least access all current Codexes/Battletomes (ideally older ones too, but come on, let's not get too deep into fantasy land) it'd probably be heralded by most people as a brilliant service with everything else as a bonus provided it remained in the £5-£7.50 range.

I feel that's absolutely true, and it will actually be a great service for anyone actively playing.

eldomtom2 wrote:

 Overread wrote:
How do you mean?

Rule deletion etc.

Because they're current rules?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Gordy2000 wrote:
Possibly stupid question, but looking at the Vault offering, it looks like you get the last two years of White Dwarf editions. Given the price of a White Dwarf subscription, wouldn’t Warhammer+ be a better option?

Or am I missing something?

The local theory is that's why they're including physical stuff like cards & transfers with WD more often - to add value to the print editions.

beast_gts wrote:

eldomtom2 wrote:

 Overread wrote:
How do you mean?

Rule deletion etc.

Because they're current rules?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Gordy2000 wrote:
Possibly stupid question, but looking at the Vault offering, it looks like you get the last two years of White Dwarf editions. Given the price of a White Dwarf subscription, wouldn’t Warhammer+ be a better option?

Or am I missing something?

The local theory is that's why they're including physical stuff like cards & transfers with WD more often - to add value to the print editions.

Thing is, WD went DOWNHILL over the years
Back in the day that was typical. Sometimes you'd get minis

 GoldenHorde wrote:
Thing is, WD went DOWNHILL over the years
Back in the day that was typical. Sometimes you'd get minis

Yep. Last one was a Khorne Slaughterpriest, wasn't it?

 Arbitrator wrote:

 streetsamurai wrote:
It really seems that gw doesn't have the resources to be able to make a such a service worthwhile.

There's some interesting content, but they should have used another model to sell them. As is, the comparaison to other streaming services is to easy to make, and doesn't make W+ look good

It's funny because if all they let you a subscription to at least access all current Codexes/Battletomes (ideally older ones too, but come on, let's not get too deep into fantasy land) it'd probably be heralded by most people as a brilliant service with everything else as a bonus provided it remained in the £5-£7.50 range.

GW being the digital dinosaurs they are will probably get the hint in another five years and still be praised to high heavens for their genius though.

Indeed. There really should be a way to access codex without having to buy them at full price (yes there's pirated version on the net, but i mean legally).

Its insane that unless you're willing to shell a thousand bucks, you have no idea what's the army of your opponent

GW's need of still utilising printed media for rules is now seriously becoming outdated. Phones, tablets etc make them no longer required.

And for the obvious arguments of 'I don't want to carry tablets etc around with me' release the core rules as a condensed PDF in a separate file that the customer can print out if they want (or even better, partner with a print to order company and let them do it for you whilst still earning some £ on top), leave all the lore and pics in the digital version, and then regular ongoing updates and tweaks are needed.

In regards to WD, yep, more minis, card terrain, dice, brushes, short story novellas.... If they want to keep it going, it needs more free faff, and GW have an abundance of certain models that have moulds they don't sell often that can be chucked in. It would never have a free mini every month, but if it were too, I'd consider a subscription just for the bits to go in my box alone and then have the added bonus of reading the magazine.

Print media is seriously outdated though, and many companies will be almost forced to move away from it anyway via green incentives and/or punishments (tax).

I'd argue that GW's print media including its lore and artwork, is what makes them and continues to make them, a much bigger player in the market compared to their competition.

The power of the codex is specifically that its not just rules. It includes lore and artwork and some model work which all help to provide multiple interest and attention grabbing points for a new customer. That new customer might be new to the game entirely or new to a faction. The point is that the codex provides multiple media coverage. And by being an "essential" purchase it ensures that people do interact with those aspects.

This then helps reinforce the sale of BL books; lore/art books; artwork (though GW overprices and under markets that for reasons known only to them).



Yes you could make it all run on apps and release rules-only documents. The problem is you'd quickly end up with people not engaging with the lore and art because it would always been an "optional" purchase and a new box of models would often trump their purchase choices. So they'd quickly end up not engaging with the lore; not reading BL books; not taking up other areas of the hobby and interest.

And in the end that removes interest hooks for them in the game. They end up less invested in an army and the game.




The only place splitting mostly works is the Big Rule Book and even then GW thrusts them upon customers through the big starter sets where that book is basically free.


Heck early Codex were almost all rules. At £12 or thereabouts in 3rd ed the Tyranid codex was all rules, black and white, paperback and had perhaps a handful of pages on lore.
Today its £30, hardback, full colour and has over 100 pages of lore.

GW is now the only one were you get rules only for digital
Everyone else is selling full books digital as well as printed books

And most have the pure digital rules out for free


And even if the full codex is the main selling point with artwork and lore (which is not worth to buy each new Edition as it mostly stays the same), there is no reason of not selling the digital rules as stand alone codes for the app

Everyone who already has a single Codex has no benefit of paying again for the same lore and artwork just to get up to date rules

the only advantage is to force people to by the physical book or pirate the stuff

 Overread wrote:
Heck early Codex were almost all rules. At £12 or thereabouts in 3rd ed the Tyranid codex was all rules, black and white, paperback and had perhaps a handful of pages on lore.

The 2nd ed codices and books starting back up halfway through 3rd ed and later all use the same format, basically. The first half of 3rd ed codices were an aberration and were very much decried at the time for the lack of background material. It's no accident that GW has returned to and otherwise held on to the same format for almost thirty years. The demand is there and I'd argue that at least at the time it was clearly a majority of customers in favor of it. Sensibilities may change, and who knows how numerous the rules only crowd is these days, but I tend to think of the codex format the same way as Overread. It's a boon to GW that contributes to their success and is still widely supported by the customer base.

When we're talking about steps backward it's dropping e-book codices that's a real bogus decision by GW. It's likely not even that they feared for physical book sales because of the electronic competition, but because it was competition for the 40k app (and coming AoS app) and GW would rather maximize that subscription money than risk people opting for electronic codices if given the choice.

I'm actually worrid that 9th ed codex have taken a step back. A lot of unit profiles are just gone from them, so instead of a page of lore and a bit of art per unit (or unit group); its down to the short few lines on the units profile page.

They don't really put the effort in to the modelling, painting and photography for codexes that they used to. These days they just print the product photos for whatever the new units they've added since the last codex were. Anybody who's still buying them for "hobby" content is wasting their money, you get more just from going on the GW website. Such a shame. As an example, I'm looking at the old Phil Kelly dark eldar codex and there's 16 pages of photography here, loads of alternate colour schemes they've painted up, a few large display photos of big battle scenes with them fighting other armies. Compare that to the most recent Space Marines book, which despite having so much more to draw on and being a larger book has a mere 12 page photo section, only one of which is a big battle scene. It's appalling really

Agreed, the current is more of being "on brand"

 Overread wrote:
I'm actually worrid that 9th ed codex have taken a step back. A lot of unit profiles are just gone from them, so instead of a page of lore and a bit of art per unit (or unit group); its down to the short few lines on the units profile page.

That's not a good development. I guess I'm not up to date. I haven't been able to bring myself to waste any money on a codex since early 8th ed.

 Overread wrote:
Heck early Codex were almost all rules. At £12 or thereabouts in 3rd ed the Tyranid codex was all rules, black and white, paperback and had perhaps a handful of pages on lore.
Today its £30, hardback, full colour and has over 100 pages of lore.

No, they absolutely weren't. There were codexes before 3rd edition, you know , and 3rd ed's codexes were specifically done as "just rules". But the original ones were kind of the setting bibles of the time.

The problem nowadays, of course, it's that codex turnaround is so fast that you're paying time and time again for the same fluff texts.

beast_gts wrote:

eldomtom2 wrote:

 Overread wrote:
How do you mean?

Rule deletion etc.

Because they're current rules?

40k 8th and AOS 2nd aren't the current editions...

Is there a thread just for the Warhammer animations and discussion.
Not their worth or all this chat (which this thread really can now just be about content added as opposed to each week another discussion of Is It Worth It Now Yet?).

 Jammer87 wrote:
Comparing Disney and Games Workshop in any way is laughable.

Disney-
Founded in 1923
American Corporation with a net worth of $337 billion(macro trends.net)
12 theme parks
Known for its film studio division which includes- Pixar, Lucasfilm, 20th Century, Marvel Studios, and Searchlight

Games Workshop-
Founded in 1975
British corporation with a net worth of $485 million(googled and converted pound sterling to dollars)
1 exhibition
Started as a board game manufacturer and now produces high quality miniatures

We might as well shut down warhammer world while we shut down the app.

Corporations aren't measured in size/clout by net worth, they are measured by market cap. The number you gave for Disney is actually their market cap. GW's is ~4B USD. Yes, I think the comparisons between Disney+ and W+ are bad, but let's not excuse GW with the ol' Mom & Pop store routine.

 Overread wrote:
I'd argue that GW's print media including its lore and artwork, is what makes them and continues to make them, a much bigger player in the market compared to their competition.

The power of the codex is specifically that its not just rules. It includes lore and artwork and some model work which all help to provide multiple interest and attention grabbing points for a new customer. That new customer might be new to the game entirely or new to a faction. The point is that the codex provides multiple media coverage. And by being an "essential" purchase it ensures that people do interact with those aspects.

This then helps reinforce the sale of BL books; lore/art books; artwork (though GW overprices and under markets that for reasons known only to them).

Yes you could make it all run on apps and release rules-only documents. The problem is you'd quickly end up with people not engaging with the lore and art because it would always been an "optional" purchase and a new box of models would often trump their purchase choices. So they'd quickly end up not engaging with the lore; not reading BL books; not taking up other areas of the hobby and interest.

And in the end that removes interest hooks for them in the game. They end up less invested in an army and the game.

The only place splitting mostly works is the Big Rule Book and even then GW thrusts them upon customers through the big starter sets where that book is basically free.

Heck early Codex were almost all rules. At £12 or thereabouts in 3rd ed the Tyranid codex was all rules, black and white, paperback and had perhaps a handful of pages on lore.
Today its £30, hardback, full colour and has over 100 pages of lore.

Didn't they gut huge portions of the lore out of the 9th 'dexes though?

And I definitely remember my £12 Guard codex having lore. Not as much as you saw in 8th, but it's there.

 streetsamurai wrote:


Indeed. There really should be a way to access codex without having to buy them at full price (yes there's pirated version on the net, but i mean legally).

Its insane that unless you're willing to shell a thousand bucks, you have no idea what's the army of your opponent

Owning every single faction codex is not, and never has been, a requirement to play the game. Let's not pull the "Ugh I can't play Warhammer because GW is MAKING ME buy all the codexes and I can't afford that!" game.

 endlesswaltz123 wrote:
GW's need of still utilising printed media for rules is now seriously becoming outdated. Phones, tablets etc make them no longer required.

GW has deliberately tied themselves to a physical supply chain rather than allow customers to buy purely digital codes. They've got a serious case of Good Idea Fairy over there.

Not really sure its possible to argue that GW print material is significant part of their success. I think its an archaic and consumer alienating tactic to continue a revenue stream that the Corp is afraid to lose.

But all GW print materials are full of typos, misprints, layout errors. Its actually shockingly amateur. The average highschool aged zine/manga creator has better copy-editing than GW.


Go take a look at the new 40k logo. It's off-centre, and it still has not been corrected in any of their ongoing publications. Or the absolutely horrible dimensions of the figure on the cover of the Black Templar codex. This is being published by a professional art/design studio.

GW should abandon their print media simply because it reveals too much how little they think of their customer's discretionary spending habits.