Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Beardedragon wrote:
Strategy doesnt matter. Im not here to discuss any of those things.

Look man, we're not here to validate your feelings.

You have lots of options for dealing with this stratagem. It isn't actually very good in practice. I'm sorry you got surprised by it. That happens when you're still learning the game.

Beardedragon wrote:
A CP shouldnt be that good on a single unit that it can deal 12 mortal wounds to begin with. If you could deal 12 mortal wounds from a trash unit to a battle wagon? How is that not worth it? retreat the poxwalkers afterwards and let it get shot down.

This isnt a strategy question because there are ways to deal with it. its a question of whether its okay for 1 unit to pay 1 CP to deal 12 or so mortal wounds. I say a massive no. Actually id be semi okay, if it happened in the wounding phase, but not the hitting phase. its stupid, the design is stupid. as someone already pointed out, this stratagem could come in to play, maybe nothing at all if im a shooty faction. OR you could completely face melt me if im using a close combat specialist army. Stratagems shouldnt face melt people like that for 1CP.

But it is a strategy question, because to get 40 swings all 20 models need to be in hitting range. This can only happen if you just carelessly plow a BW straight into them. If you instead clip a corner and stay at 0.9" you get your full attacks and they're greatly reduced.

It is also 2CP and an additional 75 point character to get the result outlined here. That means your opponent spent much more than you to wind up not killing a model while also losing 60% of his squad in return.

 Daedalus81 wrote:
But it is a strategy question, because to get 40 swings all 20 models need to be in hitting range. This can only happen if you just carelessly plow a BW straight into them. If you instead clip a corner and stay at 0.9" you get your full attacks and they're greatly reduced.

This is probably the most generally applicable counter, and it applies to a lot of other situations too. You don't have to push all your models as close as possible to the enemy. You don't even have to move your models in the Pile-In step. You can charge a larger unit with a much smaller one, get your whole unit in engagement range by touching only a couple models, then the opponent will only get a 3" pile-in move to get more in engagement range. It doesn't matter if he fights first if only a few models can actually attack.

In fact, you only pile in when it's your turn to fight. You can charge him with a whole squad of boyz, but only get one boy in engagement range and leave the rest slightly out of range. He'll have to try to pile in toward you and barely get to attack, then when you fight you can pile in the rest of the boyz and krump 'im. If you're playing an assault army, you've got to know these tricks. You can use them against even stronger units, like Terminators, to make them lose half their attacks.

 DarkHound wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:
But it is a strategy question, because to get 40 swings all 20 models need to be in hitting range. This can only happen if you just carelessly plow a BW straight into them. If you instead clip a corner and stay at 0.9" you get your full attacks and they're greatly reduced.

This is probably the most generally applicable counter, and it applies to a lot of other situations too. You don't have to push all your models as close as possible to the enemy. You don't even have to move your models in the Pile-In step. You can charge a larger unit with a much smaller one, get your whole unit in engagement range by touching only a couple models, then the opponent will only get a 3" pile-in move to get more in engagement range. It doesn't matter if he fights first if only a few models can actually attack.

In fact, you only pile in when it's your turn to fight. You can charge him with a whole squad of boyz, but only get one boy in engagement range and leave the rest slightly out of range. He'll have to try to pile in toward you and barely get to attack, then when you fight you can pile in the rest of the boyz and krump 'im.

if you play a horde faction each model doesnt have a lot of quality attacks on their own. So if you clip the corner, which i do to stay out of the 6inch range thing, i would most likely not have enough models that can reach to kill 20 poxwalkers. That means im guaranteed to be attacked back. It also means, with the gardenhose man + mortal wounds, that im not going to take the point. that one is a bit of a moot point maybe as thats more of a strategy/synegy between the gardenhose man and poxwalkers though.


Regardless, 1CP to deal mortal wounds in the hitting phase is stupid i feel. It should happen in the wounding phase and it would be a lot more fair. I dont even understand why people look at this and says: oh, this is fair, mortal wounds on 6s in the hitting phase when you throw potentially 40 die. Doesnt enough stop and think: hey maybe it would make more sense to be 6s in the wounding phase? To avoid the fact that you can potentially deal an obscene amount of mortal wounds?

I feel like people have lost their minds just because they play around it. Sure you can play around it (some factions have an easier time than others, some are hurt very hard by this), and many factions completely dont care about it. but the stratagem it self is still way better than what it should be. Its potentially just too good i would say for what you pay for, which is the point of my thread. Its also not always possible to clip corners as you know.. movement is a thing and terrain exists in the game. The gardenhose man wouldnt need to cover the rear with his aura just the front and a bit of the sides. Poxwalkers are only on 25mm bases, that doesnt take up a lot of room if you protect an objective.


I feel like people go like: I CAN play around it, so that makes it okay. And maybe thats.. a way to look at it. just because i CAN play around it doesnt mean the stratagem is balanced. I dont feel like it is. I dont feel like its okay for a single unit to be able to do that many Mortal wounds in a hitting phase. Especially not when the garden hose man, who is cheap as hell, can do what he does best. From a "balance between how stratagems works" kind of view, its out of this world, compared to what others get.

Beardedragon wrote:

 DarkHound wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:
But it is a strategy question, because to get 40 swings all 20 models need to be in hitting range. This can only happen if you just carelessly plow a BW straight into them. If you instead clip a corner and stay at 0.9" you get your full attacks and they're greatly reduced.

This is probably the most generally applicable counter, and it applies to a lot of other situations too. You don't have to push all your models as close as possible to the enemy. You don't even have to move your models in the Pile-In step. You can charge a larger unit with a much smaller one, get your whole unit in engagement range by touching only a couple models, then the opponent will only get a 3" pile-in move to get more in engagement range. It doesn't matter if he fights first if only a few models can actually attack.

In fact, you only pile in when it's your turn to fight. You can charge him with a whole squad of boyz, but only get one boy in engagement range and leave the rest slightly out of range. He'll have to try to pile in toward you and barely get to attack, then when you fight you can pile in the rest of the boyz and krump 'im.

if you play a horde faction each model doesnt have a lot of quality attacks on their own. So if you clip the corner, which i do to stay out of the 6inch range thing, i would most likely not have enough models that can reach to kill 20 poxwalkers. That means im guaranteed to be attacked back.


Regardless, 1CP to deal mortal wounds in the hitting phase is stupid. It should happen in the wounding phase and it would be a lot more fair. I dont even understand why people look at this and says: oh, this is fair, mortal wounds on 6s in the hitting phase when you throw potentially 40 die. Doesnt enough stop and think: hey maybe it would make more sense to be 6s in the wounding phase? To avoid the fact that you can potentially deal an obscene amount of mortal wounds?

This is insane.

It should just have a max of 3 mortal wounds...like almost every other stratagem of it's kind.

Or like the tyranids one - it should be based on the number of models charging. Not on hit rolls.

It makes no sense to be why some stratagems that deal mortal wounds should cost more or less CP and some have a max limit and some dont...it is just silly and indefensible to have to obvious imbalances.

 Xenomancers wrote:

Beardedragon wrote:

 DarkHound wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:
But it is a strategy question, because to get 40 swings all 20 models need to be in hitting range. This can only happen if you just carelessly plow a BW straight into them. If you instead clip a corner and stay at 0.9" you get your full attacks and they're greatly reduced.

This is probably the most generally applicable counter, and it applies to a lot of other situations too. You don't have to push all your models as close as possible to the enemy. You don't even have to move your models in the Pile-In step. You can charge a larger unit with a much smaller one, get your whole unit in engagement range by touching only a couple models, then the opponent will only get a 3" pile-in move to get more in engagement range. It doesn't matter if he fights first if only a few models can actually attack.

In fact, you only pile in when it's your turn to fight. You can charge him with a whole squad of boyz, but only get one boy in engagement range and leave the rest slightly out of range. He'll have to try to pile in toward you and barely get to attack, then when you fight you can pile in the rest of the boyz and krump 'im.

if you play a horde faction each model doesnt have a lot of quality attacks on their own. So if you clip the corner, which i do to stay out of the 6inch range thing, i would most likely not have enough models that can reach to kill 20 poxwalkers. That means im guaranteed to be attacked back.


Regardless, 1CP to deal mortal wounds in the hitting phase is stupid. It should happen in the wounding phase and it would be a lot more fair. I dont even understand why people look at this and says: oh, this is fair, mortal wounds on 6s in the hitting phase when you throw potentially 40 die. Doesnt enough stop and think: hey maybe it would make more sense to be 6s in the wounding phase? To avoid the fact that you can potentially deal an obscene amount of mortal wounds?

This is insane.

It should just have a max of 3 mortal wounds...like almost every other stratagem of it's kind.

Or like the tyranids one - it should be based on the number of models charging. Not on hit rolls.

It makes no sense to be why some stratagems that deal mortal wounds should cost more or less CP and some have a max limit and some dont...it is just silly and indefensible to have to obvious imbalances.

exactly. It should either be maxxed out at a specific number (maybe 5?) or happen in the wounding phase. 1CP is definitely worth 5 mortal wounds. You could say a max of 5 poxwalkers could die then too.

I hope you never play against Mars Mechanicus and someone uses Wrath of Mars. This poxwalker stratagem is childs play compared to others, simply due to how readily applicable the damage output is.

Beardedragon wrote:

 DarkHound wrote:
You don't have to push all your models as close as possible to the enemy. You don't even have to move your models in the Pile-In step. You can charge a larger unit with a much smaller one, get your whole unit in engagement range by touching only a couple models, then the opponent will only get a 3" pile-in move to get more in engagement range. It doesn't matter if he fights first if only a few models can actually attack.

In fact, you only pile in when it's your turn to fight. You can charge him with a whole squad of boyz, but only get one boy in engagement range and leave the rest slightly out of range. He'll have to try to pile in toward you and barely get to attack, then when you fight you can pile in the rest of the boyz and krump 'im.

if you play a horde faction each model doesnt have a lot of quality attacks on their own. So if you clip the corner, which i do to stay out of the 6inch range thing, i would most likely not have enough models that can reach to kill 20 poxwalkers. That means im guaranteed to be attacked back. It also means, with the gardenhose man + mortal wounds, that im not going to take the point. that one is a bit of a moot point maybe as thats more of a strategy/synegy between the gardenhose man and poxwalkers though.

No, you misunderstand. You can use the pile-in trick if you're fighting last. Because he will necessarily fight first, he has to make the first pile-in move since 90% of his squad is out of range. Then, when he's closer, and it's your turn to fight, you can pile-in and bring your boyz into engagement range.

The Pile-In and Consolidate rules say you have to end your move closer to the closest enemy model, but it doesn't say you have to move the full 3". You can game this all sorts of different ways to prevent models from getting into engagement range, or to help remove casualties for models that are already in engagement range to mess up the combat.

I feel like people go like: I CAN play around it, so that makes it okay. And maybe thats.. a way to look at it. just because i CAN play around it doesnt mean the stratagem is balanced. I dont feel like it is. I dont feel like its okay for a single unit to be able to do that many Mortal wounds in a hitting phase. Especially not when the garden hose man, who is cheap as hell, can do what he does best. From a "balance between how stratagems works" kind of view, its out of this world, compared to what others get.

The fact that you can play around it is what makes it balanced. It doesn't matter what the ceiling of the effect is, it matters what happens in practice. It's really not even good compared to other 1 CP stratagems. I generally wouldn't spend a CP to do less than an extra 3 wounds anyway. In practice, the Poxwalkers are maybe going to get 10 models in engagement range and that averages 3 mortals. Cool, that's decent.

You want to see an actually strong 1 CP stratagem? AdMech's Wrath of Mars puts out mortals on 6s to wound, but they can use it on good units instead of fodder. It does typically hit the 6 mortals cap for 1 CP.

 Thadin wrote:
I hope you never play against Mars Mechanicus and someone uses Wrath of Mars. This poxwalker stratagem is childs play compared to others, simply due to how readily applicable the damage output is.

That stratagem was always particularly busted. Funny how basically the exact same stratagem for salamanders was nerfed to max 3 within a month of it's inception. Now several years later the wrath of mars s Finally nerfed but has a max of 6?

I am not saying that all stratagems should be the same. These stratagems ARE the same though - they deal mortal wounds for a unit making an attack. The max should be the same for the same CP expenditure.

But still would it be insane to ask for a max cap on the amount of mortal wounds that poxwalkers can do on the hitting phase?

I feel like it wouldnt

 Xenomancers wrote:

It should just have a max of 3 mortal wounds...like almost every other stratagem of it's kind.

Or like the tyranids one - it should be based on the number of models charging. Not on hit rolls.

It makes no sense to be why some stratagems that deal mortal wounds should cost more or less CP and some have a max limit and some dont...it is just silly and indefensible to have to obvious imbalances.

No, because 1) this kills your own models and 2) it can be avoided by limiting the number of models that can reach. With good positioning maybe 8 to 10 pox will reach which averages about 3 MW and kills 3 pox. Avoiding Mephrit Gauss isn't nearly so simple.

It's not as clear cut as "every stratagem should be the same across the entire game." Some factions are better able to utilize certain effects. The game designers can use this to encourage styles of play, offering the effect as a reward. Or they can penalize stratagems with caps to provide only some power, if the effect is easy for a faction to achieve.

The Poxwalkers are an example of this. They're garbage in combat. The effect kills your own models, and is extremely difficult to actually activate effectively. So, there's a reward if you can line up all the circumstances just right. If the effect had a cap of 3, it'd be easy to reach that cap, but it wouldn't change the effect in practice and it would hurt fluffy zombie horde armies that already aren't very good.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

It should just have a max of 3 mortal wounds...like almost every other stratagem of it's kind.

Or like the tyranids one - it should be based on the number of models charging. Not on hit rolls.

It makes no sense to be why some stratagems that deal mortal wounds should cost more or less CP and some have a max limit and some dont...it is just silly and indefensible to have to obvious imbalances.

No, because 1) this kills your own models and 2) it can be avoided by limiting the number of models that can reach. With good positioning maybe 8 to 10 pox will reach which averages about 3 MW and kills 3 pox. Avoiding Mephrit Gauss isn't nearly so simple.

Do you get how generous this game is on getting units into CC range? Every model in your unit gets a free 3 inch move after their charge roll and only has to be within an inch of a model within 1 inch of an enemy model. If you are charging - every single model in a 20 man unit should be attacking prodived you didn't roll just the minimum charge distance. In any case it doesn't matter as even with 30 out of 40 attacks you will average more than 3 mortal wounds. True rolls of 1 will deal a mortal to the pox walker but typically a mortal wound is going to remove a model as well (which gives you a pox walker back) and poxy have fnp against the mortal wound automatically (this rule can basically be ignored as a balancing factor as it is an advantage for the pox walkers!).

Beardedragon wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:
Shoot them before they make it to close combat. They’re not very durable, and are very slow.

It might be overtuned, but this seems pretty over the top a reaction.

Shoot them with what? i play a close combat army. Sure i have ranged weapons but most of those weapons are focused around dealing with heavier units. I find it directly unfair that someone can deal a massive amount of mortal wounds from such a cheap unit.

No other faction simply does that. And then that guy that allows them to hit first in CC meaning i dont even get the first strike to begin with.

fulgurite electro priests do it with no CP needed

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

Beardedragon wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:
Shoot them before they make it to close combat. They’re not very durable, and are very slow.

It might be overtuned, but this seems pretty over the top a reaction.

Shoot them with what? i play a close combat army. Sure i have ranged weapons but most of those weapons are focused around dealing with heavier units. I find it directly unfair that someone can deal a massive amount of mortal wounds from such a cheap unit.

No other faction simply does that. And then that guy that allows them to hit first in CC meaning i dont even get the first strike to begin with.

fulgurite electro priests do it with no CP needed

I think this is assumed in the point cost of their models?

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

It should just have a max of 3 mortal wounds...like almost every other stratagem of it's kind.

Or like the tyranids one - it should be based on the number of models charging. Not on hit rolls.

It makes no sense to be why some stratagems that deal mortal wounds should cost more or less CP and some have a max limit and some dont...it is just silly and indefensible to have to obvious imbalances.

No, because 1) this kills your own models and 2) it can be avoided by limiting the number of models that can reach. With good positioning maybe 8 to 10 pox will reach which averages about 3 MW and kills 3 pox. Avoiding Mephrit Gauss isn't nearly so simple.

Do you get how generous this game is on getting units into CC range? Every model in your unit gets a free 3 inch move after their charge roll and only has to be within an inch of a model within 1 inch of an enemy model. If you are charging - every single model in a 20 man unit should be attacking prodived you didn't roll just the minimum charge distance. In any case it doesn't matter as even with 30 out of 40 attacks you will average more than 3 mortal wounds. True rolls of 1 will deal a mortal to the pox walker but typically a mortal wound is going to remove a model as well (which gives you a pox walker back) and poxy have fnp against the mortal wound automatically (this rule can basically be ignored as a balancing factor as it is an advantage for the pox walkers!).

Please re-read the rules for the relevant models and stratagems.
Because the mortal wounds are not allocated until the Poxwalker's Fight has resolved, they cannot get pox walkers back from the mortal wounds caused.

 DarkHound wrote:
It's not as clear cut as "every stratagem should be the same across the entire game." Some factions are better able to utilize certain effects. The game designers can use this to encourage styles of play, offering the effect as a reward. Or they can penalize stratagems with caps to provide only some power, if the effect is easy for a faction to achieve.

The Poxwalkers are an example of this. They're garbage in combat. The effect kills your own models, and is extremely difficult to actually activate effectively. So, there's a reward if you can line up all the circumstances just right. If the effect had a cap of 3, it'd be easy to reach that cap, but it wouldn't change the effect in practice and it would hurt fluffy zombie horde armies that already aren't very good.

Poxwalkers are a garbage unit. Their job is to take up space and they do that really well. They don't pay any kind of points to be good in combat. This stratagem however turns them into one of the most powerful units in the game in certain situations. Mortal wounds are kinda good...you know?

The average number of 6's for 40 rolls is 6.66, not 10 or 12 or so.

And again as has been said, thats IF they are at full strength, don't lose anyone to overwatch, can all make it into combat, etc.

Don't believe me? Go here https://www.wizards.com/dnd/dice/dice.htm and keep rolling 40d6 until you get 12 or more 6's. And every mouseclick represents your once per game turn use of the strat where all the stars have aligned as above. I think you are heavily overestimating its effectiveness.

Rihgu wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

It should just have a max of 3 mortal wounds...like almost every other stratagem of it's kind.

Or like the tyranids one - it should be based on the number of models charging. Not on hit rolls.

It makes no sense to be why some stratagems that deal mortal wounds should cost more or less CP and some have a max limit and some dont...it is just silly and indefensible to have to obvious imbalances.

No, because 1) this kills your own models and 2) it can be avoided by limiting the number of models that can reach. With good positioning maybe 8 to 10 pox will reach which averages about 3 MW and kills 3 pox. Avoiding Mephrit Gauss isn't nearly so simple.

Do you get how generous this game is on getting units into CC range? Every model in your unit gets a free 3 inch move after their charge roll and only has to be within an inch of a model within 1 inch of an enemy model. If you are charging - every single model in a 20 man unit should be attacking prodived you didn't roll just the minimum charge distance. In any case it doesn't matter as even with 30 out of 40 attacks you will average more than 3 mortal wounds. True rolls of 1 will deal a mortal to the pox walker but typically a mortal wound is going to remove a model as well (which gives you a pox walker back) and poxy have fnp against the mortal wound automatically (this rule can basically be ignored as a balancing factor as it is an advantage for the pox walkers!).

Please re-read the rules for the relevant models and stratagems.
Because the mortal wounds are not allocated until the Poxwalker's Fight has resolved, they cannot get pox walkers back from the mortal wounds caused.

This would only matter if they were starting as a 20 man unit which will almost never be the case and they still get a 6+ FNP for it. Advantage pox walkers.

 Xenomancers wrote:
Do you get how generous this game is on getting units into CC range? Every model in your unit gets a free 3 inch move after their charge roll and only has to be within an inch of a model within 1 inch of an enemy model. If you are charging - every single model in a 20 man unit should be attacking prodived you didn't roll just the minimum charge distance. In any case it doesn't matter as even with 30 out of 40 attacks you will average more than 3 mortal wounds. True rolls of 1 will deal a mortal to the pox walker but typically a mortal wound is going to remove a model as well (which gives you a pox walker back) and poxy have fnp against the mortal wound automatically (this rule can basically be ignored as a balancing factor as it is an advantage for the pox walkers!).

In no competitive reality are poxwalkers doing the charging. They move 4". It takes them two turns of running just to reach some objectives. They have no advance and charge. They also need to be within 0.5" of a model that is within 0.5". If your front line model is 0.6" away he isn't getting you a second rank.

 Xenomancers wrote:

 DarkHound wrote:
It's not as clear cut as "every stratagem should be the same across the entire game." Some factions are better able to utilize certain effects. The game designers can use this to encourage styles of play, offering the effect as a reward.

If the effect had a cap of 3, it'd be easy to reach that cap, but it wouldn't change the effect in practice and it would hurt fluffy zombie horde armies that already aren't very good.

Poxwalkers are a garbage unit. Their job is to take up space and they do that really well. They don't pay any kind of points to be good in combat. This stratagem however turns them into one of the most powerful units in the game in certain situations. Mortal wounds are kinda good...you know?

Sure, but it's a reward for Typhus zombie horde armies. That's an army style that's famous in the lore, and the designers want that style to be represented on the tabletop. The Poxwalkers don't pay extra points because that would make them worse for other factions. The stratagem is just good enough to make that play style interesting, but it's clearly worse than other factions. That is good for the game; people who like the lore can play out armies in that style. I wish every lore faction had similar representation.

in a game of WHO IS THE MOST USELESS UNIT, GROTS OR POXWALKERS?!

Its not poxwalkers winning that race, of uselessness. its the Grots. Id gladly trade away my pistol shot for that. If i could get "ressurrection" for grots like poxwalkers has, (both ability and the stratagem) and a stratagem to deal mortal wounds on hit rolls of 6, id never complain about grots being 5 points per model, even though their leadership is 4, and their strength is 2.

Yet Poxwalkers have a ton of stratagems and otherwise things to benefit them. At least they dont run away to morale.


Do Grots make up for it by being able to do actions? not really.

But to get back at the thread, they really should deal mortal wounds in the wounding phase. Someone really smoked a pipe when thinking it made sense to do in the hitting phase.

Orks don't have their codex yet so that argument is moot.
I believe grots can do actions too which is not insignificant in an edition where people are taking servitors with no obsec to do the same

 DarkHound wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

 DarkHound wrote:
It's not as clear cut as "every stratagem should be the same across the entire game." Some factions are better able to utilize certain effects. The game designers can use this to encourage styles of play, offering the effect as a reward.

If the effect had a cap of 3, it'd be easy to reach that cap, but it wouldn't change the effect in practice and it would hurt fluffy zombie horde armies that already aren't very good.

Poxwalkers are a garbage unit. Their job is to take up space and they do that really well. They don't pay any kind of points to be good in combat. This stratagem however turns them into one of the most powerful units in the game in certain situations. Mortal wounds are kinda good...you know?

Sure, but it's a reward for Typhus zombie horde armies. That's an army style that's famous in the lore, and the designers want that style to be represented on the tabletop. The Poxwalkers don't pay extra points because that would make them worse for other factions. The stratagem is just good enough to make that play style interesting, but it's clearly worse than other factions. That is good for the game; people who like the lore can play out armies in that style. I wish every lore faction had similar representation.

I think it is cool they have the stratagem.

Scarabs have a 1 cp stratagem that kills a 15 point scarab and does 3 mortal wounds max. Also a cool stratagem. Clearly less effective than the pox walker stratagem though - and technically costs more. That is my issue.

Abaddon303 wrote:
Orks don't have their codex yet so that argument is moot.
I believe grots can do actions too which is not insignificant in an edition where people are taking servitors with no obsec to do the same

its insignificant when we can use Kommandos for 45 points to do actions and grots are 50 points.

So yes i dont need grots to do actions.

Abaddon303 wrote:
Orks don't have their codex yet so that argument is moot.
I believe grots can do actions too which is not insignificant in an edition where people are taking servitors with no obsec to do the same

Poxwalkers can perform their special action if you take a certain secondary objective which why the heck wouldn't you?

 Xenomancers wrote:

 DarkHound wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

 DarkHound wrote:
It's not as clear cut as "every stratagem should be the same across the entire game." Some factions are better able to utilize certain effects. The game designers can use this to encourage styles of play, offering the effect as a reward.

If the effect had a cap of 3, it'd be easy to reach that cap, but it wouldn't change the effect in practice and it would hurt fluffy zombie horde armies that already aren't very good.

Poxwalkers are a garbage unit. Their job is to take up space and they do that really well. They don't pay any kind of points to be good in combat. This stratagem however turns them into one of the most powerful units in the game in certain situations. Mortal wounds are kinda good...you know?

Sure, but it's a reward for Typhus zombie horde armies. That's an army style that's famous in the lore, and the designers want that style to be represented on the tabletop. The Poxwalkers don't pay extra points because that would make them worse for other factions. The stratagem is just good enough to make that play style interesting, but it's clearly worse than other factions. That is good for the game; people who like the lore can play out armies in that style. I wish every lore faction had similar representation.

I think it is cool they have the stratagem.

Scarabs have a 1 cp stratagem that kills a 15 point scarab and does 3 mortal wounds max. Also a cool stratagem. Clearly less effective than the pox walker stratagem though - and technically costs more. That is my issue.

Yes. the cost versus what you gain from it ratio, is off the scale with that Mutant strain stratagem. There is a massive reward to be reaped from it, and many ways to deal with the negative points (by dying on 1s) if they survive to next round by ressurrecting on killings, and the dead walk again


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Xenomancers wrote:

Abaddon303 wrote:
Orks don't have their codex yet so that argument is moot.
I believe grots can do actions too which is not insignificant in an edition where people are taking servitors with no obsec to do the same

Poxwalkers can perform their special action if you take a certain secondary objective which why the heck wouldn't you?

Oh right i forgot about that. That just makes them even better. Sure they cant perform other actions, but ive never seen a death guard player having a hard time doing actions (that makes sense for death guard to do). they usually just take 2 units of bare bone plague marines to do that.

Poxwalkers are not useless, they are good units for what they do. insane if they can get mutant strain off. If it was only 6s off wounds, it would be fair, now its not fair.

is a bananas stratagem especially combined with the 1 CP one to reroll all hits rolls from Tychus plague company.


But as it is associated with a very weak (Not competitively but in their power) unit, it gets a pass.

Now, thematically, it makes sense for poxwalkers to do so much damage? No it does not. But bah. Theres much worse stuff out there.

Beardedragon wrote:in a game of WHO IS THE MOST USELESS UNIT, GROTS OR POXWALKERS?!

Totally besides the point. Grots are overpriced, sure. We knew that when the 9th edition points rolled around. They should cost 3 points. However, they have certain advantages, such as Grot Shields. You can fix their morale with either your Warboss or a Runtherd. And they do hit on 3s for shooting. There are ways to make Grots useful.

 Xenomancers wrote:

 DarkHound wrote:
Sure, but it's a reward for Typhus zombie horde armies. That's an army style that's famous in the lore, and the designers want that style to be represented on the tabletop. The Poxwalkers don't pay extra points because that would make them worse for other factions. The stratagem is just good enough to make that play style interesting, but it's clearly worse than other factions. That is good for the game; people who like the lore can play out armies in that style. I wish every lore faction had similar representation.

I think it is cool they have the stratagem.

Scarabs have a 1 cp stratagem that kills a 15 point scarab and does 3 mortal wounds max. Also a cool stratagem. Clearly less effective than the pox walker stratagem though - and technically costs more. That is my issue.

That just comes down to the fact that the designers want a zombie horde army to exist, but they don't want a scarab horde army to exist. Still, that's really splitting hairs.

I give up, i really wouldn't worry about it, I very rarely use Mutant Strain, there are better things to spend CP on. It's cute if it comes up.
If this is the most broken thing in 40K you've come across you are very fortunate...