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tauist wrote: Just saying, if I had the DKoK models, I could play with them already. Their rules, polys etc are all posted online already.. This "getting very expensive" point isn't really as big of an issue IRL as people make it to be (Disclaimer: I already preordered Octarius, so I have already paid for the rules; in my case this isn't about piracy)
I don't think people should have to resort to piracy (or in this case, screen grabbing from review videos) to play the game if they don't want to spend hundreds of dollars. People want to have a book they can open and read, and when you're introducing new players to a game you want to be able to point to an item and say "buy this, it's a good starting point".
It's a problem I've had with Aeronautica Imperialis, GW did not make a simple and financially logical path to getting into the game and I think it hurt it from getting off the ground (granted they also screwed up the rules balance of that game, but there can be more than one factor to messing up a game).
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/16 04:20:13
Nightlord1987 wrote: Been playing the old KT, and in just 3 games my friend/opponent discovered the whole Comms, plus Auspex on a Missile Launcher with Sniper trick for the ol 2+ reroll one auto win, and just like in 2019 I'm bored with it.
Maybe there will be a little bit more to it with these restrictions.
All of those are option within a single tac squad, not being able to mix and pick your team composition wouldn't change if a single unit choice in the game is (allegedly) broken. Unit still have a Specialism and extra equipment choice like auspex.
The fireteam restriction force people to spam the same fighters in their team, which is pretty annoying for many niche units that people only want to bring 1 or 2, not 4,5.
I think also the small tables take away from how useful basic fighters can be.
Right now I already think for a few factions we have just what people say this edition fix, just in tax units. Which I think are fine, and enhance a game when they are feeling right.
Storm guardians I think stand out here, you take them for there gun option. But the troops themselves offer little that guardians don’t, and there CC ability is very narrow as anything you really need robust CC for isn’t really covered.
Dire avengers I still out on, the extra gun on a guardian is tempting. And the dire avengers I think are only a option due to the difficulty to utilise the weapon platform. It’s got a lot of downsides >.<
I think they should have made mixed fire teams a thing. I can see the difficulties arising from completely freeform pick-and-choose but being stuck to two different units is a bit meh. For example; do termagants and hormagaunts really need to be separate teams?
NinthMusketeer wrote: I think they should have made mixed fire teams a thing. I can see the difficulties arising from completely freeform pick-and-choose but being stuck to two different units is a bit meh. For example; do termagants and hormagaunts really need to be separate teams?
Termagants and hormagaunts are a mixed fire team. So it can be done, I think aspects should have been as well. As a mixed unit is entirely within fluff, and makes sense for the type of game they are making.
Small elite unit of aspect warriors, mixed team. When a new book ads a aspect warrior they can just slot into the fire team as extra options. Future proofing the rules a bit even if you reprint the whole roster again in a new book.
NinthMusketeer wrote: I think they should have made mixed fire teams a thing. I can see the difficulties arising from completely freeform pick-and-choose but being stuck to two different units is a bit meh. For example; do termagants and hormagaunts really need to be separate teams?
Termagants and hormagaunts are a mixed fire team. So it can be done, I think aspects should have been as well. As a mixed unit is entirely within fluff, and makes sense for the type of game they are making.
Small elite unit of aspect warriors, mixed team. When a new book ads a aspect warrior they can just slot into the fire team as extra options. Future proofing the rules a bit even if you reprint the whole roster again in a new book.
42,5€ for single howling banshee, 33€ for single striking scorpion, 39€ for dark reaper. Getting fire team will be expensive
Unless GW does dedicated box with suitable mix in itself.
NinthMusketeer wrote: I think they should have made mixed fire teams a thing. I can see the difficulties arising from completely freeform pick-and-choose but being stuck to two different units is a bit meh. For example; do termagants and hormagaunts really need to be separate teams?
Termagants and hormagaunts are a mixed fire team. So it can be done, I think aspects should have been as well. As a mixed unit is entirely within fluff, and makes sense for the type of game they are making.
Small elite unit of aspect warriors, mixed team. When a new book ads a aspect warrior they can just slot into the fire team as extra options. Future proofing the rules a bit even if you reprint the whole roster again in a new book.
42,5€ for single howling banshee, 33€ for single striking scorpion, 39€ for dark reaper. Getting fire team will be expensive
Unless GW does dedicated box with suitable mix in itself.
People can choose to take just one type, or utilise more. This will always be a issue of buy in cost and expansion. Bare in mind, you probably need 3 boxes anyway for a Eldar team unless you go guardians with no expansions and no swap outs. 2 boxes a minimum if not using guardians. So you have saved no money at all with your list there realistically over current rules.
I don't expect we'll see Striking Scorpions as a Kill Team.
Especially given that one of the art cards GW shops gave away for preorders was a redesigned Ranger/Pathfinder look escorting a new type of Seer-ish character across a battlefield with a rusted out Reaver Titan and a Phantom Titan in the background. The other 4 cards were all stuff that's on the Kill Team website, just that one is not.
Especially given that one of the art cards GW shops gave away for preorders was a redesigned Ranger/Pathfinder look escorting a new type of Seer-ish character across a battlefield with a rusted out Reaver Titan and a Phantom Titan in the background. The other 4 cards were all stuff that's on the Kill Team website, just that one is not.
I would buy a warlock/seer escorted by Rangers kill team. Could easily mix guardians, aspect warriors or other outcasts to get to 10 models. But the concept of Rangers smuggling a psyker is just very cool.
On the flip side unless GW did something spectacular with a real space raid kill team, I'd rather just make my own Commorrite kill team.
Tastyfish wrote: I expect we'll see the striking scorpions as a kill team box set, with different kit and styles, rather than a mixed aspect one.
They are supposed to be the sneaky ones out of the aspects.
While that would get me to build an Eldar army, right now I sure hope it's a fair bit away, too much money too quickly.
LOL, Theo your mind is an amazing place, never change.-camkierhi 9/19/13
I cant believe theo is right.. damn. -comradepanda 9/26/13
None of the strange ideas we had about you involved your sexual orientation..........-Monkeytroll 12/10/13
I'd put you on ignore for that comment, if I could...Alpharius 2/11/14
But will they come in 9 different flavor on 3 sprues like Krieg or Kommando? because typical 1.5 sprue eldar kit with 2,3 choice for Exarch would be pretty boring.
Kanluwen wrote: I don't expect we'll see Striking Scorpions as a Kill Team.
Especially given that one of the art cards GW shops gave away for preorders was a redesigned Ranger/Pathfinder look escorting a new type of Seer-ish character across a battlefield with a rusted out Reaver Titan and a Phantom Titan in the background. The other 4 cards were all stuff that's on the Kill Team website, just that one is not.
Titan wreckage as the terrain in a box set would be amazing.
Kanluwen wrote: Especially given that one of the art cards GW shops gave away for preorders was a redesigned Ranger/Pathfinder look escorting a new type of Seer-ish character across a battlefield with a rusted out Reaver Titan and a Phantom Titan in the background.
I'm not sure how varied the terrain will be getting.
Octarius obviously has the L shaped buildings beloved by the tournament scene.
The Killteam rules also seem to weigh quite heavily on Vantage Points (elevated areas) for gameplay. So buildings and building-like objects.
So I do think terrain will mostly just be differently themed 'skins' of essentially the same terrain.
AllSeeingSkink wrote: It's a problem I've had with Aeronautica Imperialis, GW did not make a simple and financially logical path to getting into the game and I think it hurt it from getting off the ground (granted they also screwed up the rules balance of that game, but there can be more than one factor to messing up a game).
But... they did?
Every one of the two player box sets released with that campaign book (which integrated the core rules in full as a single book purchase) and every model in the two player box sets as separate kits, day and date, if you didn't want to buy the box set.
If anything, GW looked at the response to AI and how successful the 2p boxes were (particularly in relation to follow-up kits and the like), and modeled their KT strategy off of leveraging the box sets' popularity.
Thanks for that Kan. Could be interesting if we get an approcimation of "fallen titan" terrain - like a Reaver head, bits of weapons and whatnot, a foot, maybe part of a Warhound or Phantom torso turned into a building (with 'Vantage Points' and other rule-friendly creations).
This is a Sisters/Cultist pic from the KT website:
I hope those dome-top add-ons for Sector Mechanicus are real.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/16 14:39:01
I’d love to see zone mortalis rereleased in the cheaper hive warzone type box for killteam…
That terrain is amazing for these skirmish games. AMAZING!
Add in the zone mortalis stronghold kit as well and fight across multiple levels of vantage points.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/08/16 15:21:41
Certainly wouldn’t complain about a Sisters vs Chaos box either.
Edit: Looking through the rumor mill It does look like the next couple teams could be Eldar/GSC/Chaos/Inquisition (or possibly Sisters). If those images are indeed for KT releases.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/16 15:50:39
AllSeeingSkink wrote: It's a problem I've had with Aeronautica Imperialis, GW did not make a simple and financially logical path to getting into the game and I think it hurt it from getting off the ground (granted they also screwed up the rules balance of that game, but there can be more than one factor to messing up a game).
But... they did?
Every one of the two player box sets released with that campaign book (which integrated the core rules in full as a single book purchase) and every model in the two player box sets as separate kits, day and date, if you didn't want to buy the box set.
The two player sets for AI don't have the full rules for the air forces, only what comes in the box, and they don't have much in the way of missions to play. If you want that, you need to also buy a campaign book.
Once you account for having to buy a campaign book anyway, and the hex board in the starter set being too small, the two player starter sets aren't good value unless you specifically want the aircraft in it.
Then if you do buy the starter sets, they don't really give you enough aircraft. The sweet spot for most aircraft is roughly what you get in a squadron box, but the starter set comes with effectively half squadron box. So if you buy a separate box to expand on the same type of aircraft, you will have more than you will ever need.
If you try and lay out AI in terms of what a new player will need to buy to get started and then what they'll need to buy if they want to play it at a decent level, there's just not any enticing pathways.
If anything, GW looked at the response to AI and how successful the 2p boxes were (particularly in relation to follow-up kits and the like), and modeled their KT strategy off of leveraging the box sets' popularity.
I'd be really surprised if AI was all that successful. It's dead on this forum, it's dead at the local stores/groups around here, and GW haven't even bothered keeping the books required to play the game in stock.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/16 16:08:32
I can already tell that the Marines are not going to be a beginner-friendly team.. Not enough operatives. It's the same prob as with the Custodes, lose one or two models and you're flocked. This all boils down to a team which you cannot make mistakes with.
EDIT: I forgot the scouts! Many rosters will have a scout fire team, I bet.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/16 16:16:25
Certainly wouldn’t complain about a Sisters vs Chaos box either.
Edit: Looking through the rumor mill It does look like the next couple teams could be Eldar/GSC/Chaos/Inquisition (or possibly Sisters). If those images are indeed for KT releases.
Next set it meant to be existing Tau pathfinders (with a new sprue to make specialties) vs Sisters of Battle Neophytes. Terrain will be existing city terrain (not sure if the original KT terrain or the Indomitus terrain).
This rumour is from the same person who leaked the Krieg vs Ork Commando box with Ork terrain over a year ago.
If those art cards are any indication then some of the rumors we heard previously about future boxes are incorrect (ex - rumors of Tau Pathfinders vs Sisters Novitiates on Imperial terrain). Based on the cards, it would look like:
Sisters vs Chaos Cultists (lead by a CSM?) in Zone Mortalis/Sector Mechanicus terrain (looks like new terrain based on the art)
Aeldari Rangers (+Warlock?) vs... Im guessing Admech? In what looks like battlefield wreckage terrain
Militarum Tempestus vs Tau in Tau terrain. This one is particularly exciting because thats clearly a Militarum Tempestus sniper in the background of that art, and thats not something that presently exists, which means praise Geedubs we're getting some MT support.
Given that one of them is DKoK vs Orks in Ork terrain I would think that the other art pieces are a strong preview of things to come?
CoALabaer wrote: Wargamers hate two things: the state of the game and change.
Kaffis wrote: If anything, GW looked at the response to AI and how successful the 2p boxes were (particularly in relation to follow-up kits and the like), and modeled their KT strategy off of leveraging the box sets' popularity.
I'd be really surprised if AI was all that successful. It's dead on this forum, it's dead at the local stores/groups around here, and GW haven't even bothered keeping the books required to play the game in stock.
I meant more that I suspect that GW saw a lot more sales of 2p boxes than they saw sales of individual kits (so relative within the game), not that the game was massively popular overall and pushing out other stuff.
If anything, the new KT release format seems to address the complaints you highlight among the AI community -- "But the box set doesn't include all the rules for the faction, just the rules for the specific models in the set!" "Okay, the faction IS the specific models in the set, it no longer mixes with other releases." "The sweet spot for a squadron is what you get in a box" "Well, okay, I guess we'll make fire teams for compendium factions targeted to the box contents of kits we already sell because apparently players don't like to have extras."
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/08/16 16:33:58
Certainly wouldn’t complain about a Sisters vs Chaos box either.
Edit: Looking through the rumor mill It does look like the next couple teams could be Eldar/GSC/Chaos/Inquisition (or possibly Sisters). If those images are indeed for KT releases.
Next set it meant to be existing Tau pathfinders (with a new sprue to make specialties) vs Sisters of Battle Neophytes. Terrain will be existing city terrain (not sure if the original KT terrain or the Indomitus terrain).
This rumour is from the same person who leaked the Krieg vs Ork Commando box with Ork terrain over a year ago.
Thanks for that! That would be a pretty cool set, I do like the Pathfinder kit quite a bit and some new Sisters models would be awesome. I'd probably pick that up.
I always said the Pathfinder kit is a perfect starting point for a cool looking T'au team with nice model variety. If they are getting a specialist sprue, I'd be delighted!
tauist wrote: I always said the Pathfinder kit is a perfect starting point for a cool looking T'au team with nice model variety. If they are getting a specialist sprue, I'd be delighted!
That eldar box sounds superfun as well
As much as I'm for new pathfinders, I'm hoping we get kroot first. The kroot kit needs an overhaul and they're perfect for kill team
chaos0xomega wrote: If those art cards are any indication then some of the rumors we heard previously about future boxes are incorrect (ex - rumors of Tau Pathfinders vs Sisters Novitiates on Imperial terrain). Based on the cards, it would look like:
Sisters vs Chaos Cultists (lead by a CSM?) in Zone Mortalis/Sector Mechanicus terrain (looks like new terrain based on the art)
Remember that one of the things that's got to happen is an actual, full on Kill Team starter.
Octarius was a launch box for the game and the Octarius campaign. The Pathinders v Novitiates might be the main KT box going forward, as Pathfinders are just supposed to be getting a specialist sprue.
Aeldari Rangers (+Warlock?) vs... Im guessing Admech? In what looks like battlefield wreckage terrain
I'm thinking it's not a Warlock...I don't know why, but gut feel is something akin to the Void Dreamers from the old Corsair list.
Militarum Tempestus vs Tau in Tau terrain. This one is particularly exciting because thats clearly a Militarum Tempestus sniper in the background of that art, and thats not something that presently exists, which means praise Geedubs we're getting some MT support.
It's just the standard Hotshot Lasgun, unfortunately...but there is at least one rumor engine that looks alot like MT greaves.
Given that one of them is DKoK vs Orks in Ork terrain I would think that the other art pieces are a strong preview of things to come?
Feels like it, aye...some of the art on the website is definitely recycled though. There's the box art for Deathwatch: Overkill for example.
