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Togusa wrote:

For me, 200$ is fine. For those who it isn't, they won't buy it. Seems like capitalism working as intended to me. What's the big deal?

Poor people shouldn't get to enjoy things is a bold take, but sadly not controversial.

 Nazrak wrote:
Hey I have a question about the Neophytes: if they're basically same as Scouts, i.e. they don't have their Black Carapace yet, how come they've got all the plugs and that for where they attach to power armour in their arms, head etc? Or have I missed something?

The cynic in me says this is new coke, where historical references to old coke don't matter (same as with Sisters Repentia having visible plugs despite not being gene seeded up in any way).

Being a bit more charitable, a Primaris Neophyte is probably an intermediary step between Astartes and Primaris Astartes so should already have the black carapace complete with plugs, with scout style carapace armour being handed out until full transition to Primaris and MkX armour compatibility.

Togusa wrote:
I understand. My FLGS got three of them and sold them at 35$ a piece. I liked Catachans and Steel Legion so I bought one on the off chance they ever do a range refresh for Guard and Catachans get new kits.

Then you're lucky. Every store I had access to got between 0 and 3, and put them up as random prizes for making orders.

 Arbitrator wrote:

Togusa wrote:

I paid 35.00 USD for my Catachan Colonel. Where are you getting 150$ from?

Because the vast majority were scalped due to the rarity.

I just checked ebay for you, there is one right now, available for £50, and others that are not far off that same price.

I don't mind a moan, but we should keep it real.

 Undead_Love-Machine wrote:
...but we should keep it real.

Keep it real?

I typed "Catachan Colonel" into eBay and without filtering the results, here are the prices I get:

1. AUD$223 (painted)
2. AUD$221
3. AUD$150
4. AUD$122
5. AUD$122
6. AUD$157
7. AUD$108 (incl. 20% discount)
8. AUD$305
9. AUD$149
10. AUD$305

And that's just the first 10.

They go for a mint, and are one of the rarest GW releases in recent history.

Cronch wrote:

Togusa wrote:

For me, 200$ is fine. For those who it isn't, they won't buy it. Seems like capitalism working as intended to me. What's the big deal?

Poor people shouldn't get to enjoy things is a bold take, but sadly not controversial.

We are talking about a hobby, not social healthcare. Wanna go crusading for me because I can't afford a yacht?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Undead_Love-Machine wrote:
...but we should keep it real.

Keep it real?

I typed "Catachan Colonel" into eBay and without filtering the results, here are the prices I get:

1. AUD$223 (painted)
2. AUD$221
3. AUD$150
4. AUD$122
5. AUD$122
6. AUD$157
7. AUD$108 (incl. 20% discount)
8. AUD$305
9. AUD$149
10. AUD$305

And that's just the first 10.

They go for a mint, and are one of the rarest GW releases in recent history.

I have no idea about AUD$.

I'm saying that if he wants one then he can purchase one right now for £50, rather than $150.

 Insularum wrote:

 Nazrak wrote:
Hey I have a question about the Neophytes: if they're basically same as Scouts, i.e. they don't have their Black Carapace yet, how come they've got all the plugs and that for where they attach to power armour in their arms, head etc? Or have I missed something?

The cynic in me says this is new coke, where historical references to old coke don't matter (same as with Sisters Repentia having visible plugs despite not being gene seeded up in any way).

Being a bit more charitable, a Primaris Neophyte is probably an intermediary step between Astartes and Primaris Astartes so should already have the black carapace complete with plugs, with scout style carapace armour being handed out until full transition to Primaris and MkX armour compatibility.

To give this a slightly less cynical spin: With Black Templars you are not a proper Space Marine until your Initiate says that you are, but you can get your Black Carapace, when the Apothecarius says he deems you ready.

Realistically speaking: Do not look for any form of consistency on the entire topic of Power Armor, Gene Seed and Space Marine reproduction. The publications contradict each other and any form of logic on about any level to a point that not even "it's the warp! 'shrugs' " can explain it anymore. To give some examples:
- Most helmets are smaller than the head that they contain, same goes for thigh armour
- Marines must have extendable shoulder sockets in order to be able to lower their arms
- Schrödingers Gene Seed: Whenever an Apothecary is around, there is someone to harvest their Glands. If he's not, every Marine had them removed after 10 years of service
- Most marines serve for hundreds of years, yet in almost every encounter more than 25% of them die, and more than 50% of scouts never make it to Space Marines
- The Black Carapace is both organic and technologic at the same time and you need plugs in your apendages in order to have faster access to the central nervous system, while you already have that through a direct access to it in your spine
- The Black Carapace is Space Marine only, while there are dozens of direct neurologic link systems already in place that other people can use for operating machinery, and they are simultaniously as efficient and less efficient than a Space Marine at it
- And the classic: Progenoid Glands only contain enough spores to create exactly one set of organs, meaning one Marine can only reproduce to two Marines (after 10 years) and yet (and dew to Schrödingers Gene Seed) every chapter is simultaniously running low on Gene Seed and still able to create new Scouts (of which most die) at the same time. This one has ben sort of retconned though, I think now it's sort of unspecific how many Marines can be created, it is however, whenever mentioned just enough or just not enough, depending on how dramatic the scenery needs to be

Togusa wrote:
I swear nerds just want an excuse to rage about something. They rage at the world , they rage at their families, but mostly, they just rage.

Maybe you have been lucky enough that you've never seen actual rage, if this feels like raging to you.

This is a discussion forum, people come here to talk about stuff, not everyone toes the line you like. Maybe deal with it?

 Undead_Love-Machine wrote:

 Arbitrator wrote:

Togusa wrote:

I paid 35.00 USD for my Catachan Colonel. Where are you getting 150$ from?

Because the vast majority were scalped due to the rarity.

I just checked ebay for you, there is one right now, available for £50, and others that are not far off that same price.

I don't mind a moan, but we should keep it real.

This ain't dakka if there's not hyperbole complaining about everything real and invented.

 Undead_Love-Machine wrote:

 Arbitrator wrote:

Togusa wrote:

I paid 35.00 USD for my Catachan Colonel. Where are you getting 150$ from?

Because the vast majority were scalped due to the rarity.

I just checked ebay for you, there is one right now, available for £50, and others that are not far off that same price.

I don't mind a moan, but we should keep it real.

One out of it's box at £50, but a few months ago you would not have seen one for that price - it would've been snapped up instantly. Even now, the majority boxed are floating around the £80-£200 range.

Let's not pretend a model with a £20 RRP going for those prices is somehow any better because one is going for £50.

 Arbitrator wrote:

 Undead_Love-Machine wrote:

 Arbitrator wrote:

Togusa wrote:

I paid 35.00 USD for my Catachan Colonel. Where are you getting 150$ from?

Because the vast majority were scalped due to the rarity.

I just checked ebay for you, there is one right now, available for £50, and others that are not far off that same price.

I don't mind a moan, but we should keep it real.

One out of it's box at £50, but a few months ago you would not have seen one for that price - it would've been snapped up instantly. Even now, the majority boxed are floating around the £80-£200 range.

Let's not pretend a model with a £20 RRP going for those prices is somehow any better because one is going for £50.

When I'm looking to buy an item I tend to buy it for the cheapest price that I can find, like most people.

I just don't pay much attention to the sellers who are trying for the highest price possible. Why would anybody buy those items when there are cheaper ones available?

It seems pointless to me to moan about items priced at the top end of the scale, when others are available that are priced reasonably.

Out of the box Colonel is likely to be a recast so not worth the £50 as the recasters sell them for far less than that.

Aeneades wrote:
Out of the box Colonel is likely to be a recast so not worth the £50 as the recasters sell them for far less than that.

Maybe, maybe not!

Mad Doc Grotsnik's loot group had a bunch of them get found at a secondhand shop in Nottingham not long ago.

Aeneades wrote:
Out of the box Colonel is likely to be a recast so not worth the £50 as the recasters sell them for far less than that.

It was complete with original instructions, brand new on plastic sprue, with the original black plastic inner box packaging. There was no way it was a recast.

But don't take my word for it, it's right there if you check the completed listings (yes, it sold at some point after I mentioned it in this thread).

 Kanluwen wrote:
Mad Doc Grotsnik's loot group had a bunch of them get found at a secondhand shop in Nottingham not long ago.

A random occurance.

And the ones that were sold through the loot group prior to that were not going cheap.

I thought that the whole idea of the loot group was to sell at RRP?

there was never an official price for it as GW told stores that got it they could sell it for whaterver they wanted to help out with covid costs

so the loot group basically allowed people to ask for what they paid for it (as long as they provided proof of the original cost)

I ended up ordering a box off ebay. 15% off made the price more reasonable and I can can certainly use another redemptor.
This will be a purely narrative army for me, so I don't expect to flesh it out completely. I'm totally in it for the models, so nice.

 Insularum wrote:
The cynic in me says this is new coke, where historical references to old coke don't matter (same as with Sisters Repentia having visible plugs despite not being gene seeded up in any way).

So 3rd edition Witch Hunters codex clearly showing these plugs in art is New Coke then?

 GiToRaZor wrote:
- And the classic: Progenoid Glands only contain enough spores to create exactly one set of organs, meaning one Marine can only reproduce to two Marines (after 10 years) and yet (and dew to Schrödingers Gene Seed) every chapter is simultaniously running low on Gene Seed and still able to create new Scouts (of which most die) at the same time. This one has ben sort of retconned though, I think now it's sort of unspecific how many Marines can be created, it is however, whenever mentioned just enough or just not enough, depending on how dramatic the scenery needs to be

Wasn't there a bit of fluff about inserting the seed into chapter slaves, then harvesting two once it matures, killing them? It was cited as a 'proof' chapter can make even a single set of organs into a few hundred after 50 years and multiple harvests in several discussions here, though I don't remember how official the source was.

 Undead_Love-Machine wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Undead_Love-Machine wrote:
...but we should keep it real.

Keep it real?

I typed "Catachan Colonel" into eBay and without filtering the results, here are the prices I get:

1. AUD$223 (painted)
2. AUD$221
3. AUD$150
4. AUD$122
5. AUD$122
6. AUD$157
7. AUD$108 (incl. 20% discount)
8. AUD$305
9. AUD$149
10. AUD$305

And that's just the first 10.

They go for a mint, and are one of the rarest GW releases in recent history.

I have no idea about AUD$.

I'm saying that if he wants one then he can purchase one right now for £50, rather than $150.

A local Gaming store that sells used models has one sealed in a box for sale for $138. /Anecdote

a_typical_hero wrote:

Cronch wrote:

Togusa wrote:

For me, 200$ is fine. For those who it isn't, they won't buy it. Seems like capitalism working as intended to me. What's the big deal?

Poor people shouldn't get to enjoy things is a bold take, but sadly not controversial.

We are talking about a hobby, not social healthcare. Wanna go crusading for me because I can't afford a yacht?

Short and non-nuanced answer is yes. The less inequality in the world the better. In this specific instance, as we are not talking about labor and material intensive objects like seafaring ships, I do believe that GW's current prices are basically state-approved scalping, aka capitalism. I'll leave it at this so the thread doesn't get locked for the Evil Politics of Not Wanting People To Die When They Can't Afford Food (because yes, capitalism works the same for all things, including things you need to live, not just toy soldiers).

Cronch wrote:

a_typical_hero wrote:

Cronch wrote:

Togusa wrote:

For me, 200$ is fine. For those who it isn't, they won't buy it. Seems like capitalism working as intended to me. What's the big deal?

Poor people shouldn't get to enjoy things is a bold take, but sadly not controversial.

We are talking about a hobby, not social healthcare. Wanna go crusading for me because I can't afford a yacht?

Short and non-nuanced answer is yes. The less inequality in the world the better. In this specific instance, as we are not talking about labor and material intensive objects like seafaring ships, I do believe that GW's current prices are basically state-approved scalping, aka capitalism. I'll leave it at this so the thread doesn't get locked for the Evil Politics of Not Wanting People To Die When They Can't Afford Food (because yes, capitalism works the same for all things, including things you need to live, not just toy soldiers).

I like a good anti Capitalism rant as much as the next man, but that didn't make a jot of sense.

ok, let's try this: yanking prices for entertainment bad, accessible hobbies good. There is zero reason to make plastic toy soldiers as inaccessible to below middle-class as GW is making it. Pricing out those groups of people out of a hobby for no reason other than more profit also bad.

Price of a finite thing rising when demand exceeds supply is not late stage Capitalism.

 MajorWesJanson wrote:

 Undead_Love-Machine wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Undead_Love-Machine wrote:
...but we should keep it real.

Keep it real?

I typed "Catachan Colonel" into eBay and without filtering the results, here are the prices I get:

1. AUD$223 (painted)
2. AUD$221
3. AUD$150
4. AUD$122
5. AUD$122
6. AUD$157
7. AUD$108 (incl. 20% discount)
8. AUD$305
9. AUD$149
10. AUD$305

And that's just the first 10.

They go for a mint, and are one of the rarest GW releases in recent history.

I have no idea about AUD$.

I'm saying that if he wants one then he can purchase one right now for £50, rather than $150.

A local Gaming store that sells used models has one sealed in a box for sale for $138. /Anecdote

Yeah, I'm sure that anybody can find examples of crazy prices, but surely anybody who actually wanted to buy one (rather than just moan) would just do what I did: go to ebay and find the best price.

 Undead_Love-Machine wrote:
Yeah, I'm sure that anybody can find examples of crazy prices, but surely anybody who actually wanted to buy one (rather than just moan) would just do what I did: go to ebay and find the best price.

Or go to recasters I guess. It's not like any money will go to GW either way. Seeing as you can get it that way for 5 euros...

Cronch wrote:

a_typical_hero wrote:

Cronch wrote:

Togusa wrote:

For me, 200$ is fine. For those who it isn't, they won't buy it. Seems like capitalism working as intended to me. What's the big deal?

Poor people shouldn't get to enjoy things is a bold take, but sadly not controversial.

We are talking about a hobby, not social healthcare. Wanna go crusading for me because I can't afford a yacht?

Short and non-nuanced answer is yes. The less inequality in the world the better. In this specific instance, as we are not talking about labor and material intensive objects like seafaring ships, I do believe that GW's current prices are basically state-approved scalping, aka capitalism. I'll leave it at this so the thread doesn't get locked for the Evil Politics of Not Wanting People To Die When They Can't Afford Food (because yes, capitalism works the same for all things, including things you need to live, not just toy soldiers).

It would be better if you explained how Socialism is better than Capitalism at preventing people from starving to death, but I know this is a big ask so probably just as well you wrap up this this witless screed w/o trying.

Cronch wrote:
ok, let's try this: yanking prices for entertainment bad, accessible hobbies good. There is zero reason to make plastic toy soldiers as inaccessible to below middle-class as GW is making it. Pricing out those groups of people out of a hobby for no reason other than more profit also bad.

There is a wide range of very accessible, very cheap plastic soldiers suitable for wargaming out there. People who can't afford GW products are not priced out of the hobby, they're priced out a specific product line.

People aren't entitled to own games workshop products as a matter of course.

And yes, I think GW's pricing model is bad.

Vorian wrote:
Price of a finite thing rising when demand exceeds supply is not late stage Capitalism.

Yeah, IDK, it's like not nice business practice and they're basically treating it like a monopoly, exploiting their visibility and using it to charge stupid prices, but it's not a monopoly, it's just the biggest game in town. They're not conspiring to price fix or anything else particularly shady, they're just kinda being jerks and throwing their weight around because they're capitalist (which, for the record, sucks, but is the current economic mode).

Take your business elsewhere and take a fraction of their effectiveness and power away? Work on getting more affordable games some momentum at your club or whatever? I enjoy 40k but have managed to buy nearly entirely used and for pretty cheap, and I play other games. Yeah, there are times when I go "ooh, shiny" at new GW stuff, but if I'm not happy with the price:value ratio (which is nearly all the time), I go elsewhere. You definitely don't need to participate in their pricing scheme nor in their particular dominance over the social participation it allows, and as much as it would be nice for everyone to be able to afford whatever pass time they want, that's not the case, there are other ways to enjoy miniature gaming as a hobby without giving GW a cent, and there are bigger injustices out there than capitalism pooping on this particular desire.