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 oni wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
A thought occurs.

If this is the new Guardians. And it is, on account it is….

What are Dire Avengers gonna look like? I mean, these Guardians are now the Dire Avengers in stats and pews of a few editions ago?

I'm guessing what Dire Avengers have always been... better Guardians.

Perhaps some Battle Focus shenanigans or a slightly upgraded catapult?

So the early rumours (which were spot on for these Guardians rules, btw) say Dire Avengers are moving to Elite with Assault 3 AP2 shurikens (still 18" though, which I'm cool with). AP2 with the new Shuriken rule will mean AP4 on wound rolls of 6
Also all Aspect Warriors are getting 5++ with DAs having that Exarch shield making it a 4++

Obviously points difference will matter, but overall I think DAs will have quite enough to distinguish them from Guardians. Plus, who knows what kind of blade-storm Stratagems they'll have

True that, true.

I’d missed the DA rumours due to walls of text, but that would suitably set them apart.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Do both shuriken catapult dice count as one attack each? Or is firing a two shot catapult "an attack"?

By the reading of it, if a model happened to roll two "1s" (snake eyes), he could only reroll one die. Which would be a pain if you were working to the rules as you'd have to slow roll every attack model by model.

Each shot is a separate attack to the best of my knowledge, with batch rolling just a way to speed it up?

Don’t quote me on that though!

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Each shot is a separate attack to the best of my knowledge, with batch rolling just a way to speed it up?

Don’t quote me on that though!

This is 100% correct.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Holy crap. The box Eldritch Omens comes in is thinner than any battle box I've seen.

You must have skipped over Shadow Throne then, because it was even thinner than Eldritch Omens.

Rihgu wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Each shot is a separate attack to the best of my knowledge, with batch rolling just a way to speed it up?

Don’t quote me on that though!

This is 100% correct.

Indeed. The easiest way to think about it is an attack is a roll 'to hit' of a dice. Assault 2 is two dice = 2 attacks.

The only time this doesn't hold up is when a weapon auto-hits, your attacks there are however many auto hits you end up with but no hit roll is made unless stated otherwise. D6 Auto-hits = D6 attacks.


Must admit i'm not mad keen on Black Guardians being a single-use per phase strategm. Kinda hoped it would be a during list building affair like Drukharii Blood Brides.

It is interesting that the stratagem is just called "Discipline of the Black Guardians", not "Black Guardians".

Might be that Ulthwe will get an Army of Renown and bring back the Ulthwe Strike Force...

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Am I right in thinking only Storm Guardians get Serpent Shields though?

It sounds like it from the comments, but I hope that is incorrect.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
A thought occurs.

If this is the new Guardians. And it is, on account it is….

What are Dire Avengers gonna look like? I mean, these Guardians are now the Dire Avengers in stats and pews of a few editions ago?

I heard S4, T4 Sv3+, 24", 2W and Know No Fear.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
A thought occurs.

If this is the new Guardians. And it is, on account it is….

What are Dire Avengers gonna look like? I mean, these Guardians are now the Dire Avengers in stats and pews of a few editions ago?

I heard S4, T4 Sv3+, 24", 2W and Know No Fear.

No you’re thinking of Space Maureen’s

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
A thought occurs.

If this is the new Guardians. And it is, on account it is….

What are Dire Avengers gonna look like? I mean, these Guardians are now the Dire Avengers in stats and pews of a few editions ago?

I heard S4, T4 Sv3+, 24", 2W and Know No Fear.

No you’re thinking of Space Maureen’s

No, but, you see, these Dire Avengers are special, because they cost 12pts each. And also get a 5++ from their exarch.

*tuts in idiot*

 Mr_Rose wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
A thought occurs.

If this is the new Guardians. And it is, on account it is….

What are Dire Avengers gonna look like? I mean, these Guardians are now the Dire Avengers in stats and pews of a few editions ago?

I heard S4, T4 Sv3+, 24", 2W and Know No Fear.

No you’re thinking of Space Maureen’s

No, but, you see, these Dire Avengers are special, because they cost 12pts each. And also get a 5++ from their exarch.

Looks like Dire Avengers will have a 5++ anyway, given that it's just a rule called Aspect Warrior on the Dark Reapers.

Great to see Guardians at Range 18" again. Storm Shield in lieu of the weapons platform is a neat idea, I'm looking forward to trying it out.

Slightly Guardian related, it looks like Wind Riders are getting their 3+ armour back.
I saw some post a picture of the WR repackage box instructions (which has all the updated weapon profiles) and the WR starliner has a 3+.

Now if they could only get moved back to Troops, they might see the tabletop again. But as Fast Attack, you're better off using Shining Spears, Shroud runners or even Vypers instead

-

If Windriders get auto 6” move shoot move they will be good.

Windriders need a stratagem called Braking Wind.

 Galef wrote:
Slightly Guardian related, it looks like Wind Riders are getting their 3+ armour back.
I saw some post a picture of the WR repackage box instructions (which has all the updated weapon profiles) and the WR starliner has a 3+.

Now if they could only get moved back to Troops, they might see the tabletop again. But as Fast Attack, you're better off using Shining Spears, Shroud runners or even Vypers instead

-

Doesn't that just in turn lead to everyone playing scatbikes and Guardians never seeing the tabletop again?

 Geifer wrote:

 Galef wrote:
Slightly Guardian related, it looks like Wind Riders are getting their 3+ armour back.
I saw some post a picture of the WR repackage box instructions (which has all the updated weapon profiles) and the WR starliner has a 3+.

Now if they could only get moved back to Troops, they might see the tabletop again. But as Fast Attack, you're better off using Shining Spears, Shroud runners or even Vypers instead

-

Doesn't that just in turn lead to everyone playing scatbikes and Guardians never seeing the tabletop again?

From my limited knowledge, I’d say the new Guardian rules have closed that gap somewhat. Better range, better armour, boosts for objective camping. Plus they’re theoretically easier to keep within buff bubbles and Warlock power range? Jetbikes, being more roving, strike me as less likely to stay put for such boosts to regularly apply?

So put up marine bikes to troop. And sister dominions. Why not give every faction fast units in troop slots.

For that matter why even bother with slots to begin with...Everything to troop slots.

We haven't had any info concerning Craftworld traits yet, right ? Official or otherwise ?

Guardian stats are looking tidy which is nice. I want basic troops in an army to be useful. I'm interested to see what the combat patrol will bring.

Combat Patrol has been leaked.

6 Jetbikes, Wraithlord, 10 Guardians and a Farseer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C8CrcqPexnI

 Manfred von Drakken wrote:

 petrov27 wrote:
Anxious to get those new plastics myself - hopefully deliver next week.

Regarding rumors/leaks - did those on the Phoenix lords say if they will be on big (40mm?) bases like Jain Zar was? I assume they will, though that might look a little odd with the old much smaller 90s sculpts for Asurmen/Karandras etc...

I wouldn't expect them to change base size until they get new models. That sort of thing is exceptionally rare for GW.

I understand you are talking about the lords, but it isn't really rare for GW. Just look at almost all old Ork models that went to 32 mm. without getting new models (old boyz, tank bustaz, lootas, nobz, burna boyz). I really hope the aspects that don't get new models will keep their old base size... :(

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Combat Patrol has been leaked.

6 Jetbikes, Wraithlord, 10 Guardians and a Farseer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C8CrcqPexnI

6 Jetbikes? That rocks.

That seems like a massive saving under current prices. Hoe much are CP going up?

That's a good amount of bikes.

Nice to see another Combat Patrol that's actually worth it.

Combat patrols are $140

Wraithlord -$55
Jetbikes 2 @ $50 - $100
Farseer - $29
Guardian (old squad price) $40

That’s a pretty nice deal. And a reasonable balanced box. Was not expecting 6 bikes.

That's a nice Combat Patrol box, and may be my first 40K purchase in years - just for painting fun.