Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 l0k1 wrote:
So, Nurgle marked CSM units can get trash human......but Death Guard can't? That's just plain stupid.

Some of y'all asked for separate codices for everything. This is what happens when GW listens to those few.

 l0k1 wrote:
So, Nurgle marked CSM units can get trash human......but Death Guard can't? That's just plain stupid.

Trash human philology ?

drbored wrote:
... Necromunda, ... [has] 1/4th or even only 1/6th of the number of stratagems that 40k has...

Careful now. You might summon The Baxx, who has an encyclopediac memory of the 300+ gang tactics cards that exist.

EviscerationPlague wrote:
Some of y'all asked for separate codices for everything. This is what happens when GW listens to those few.

This has nothing to do with separate codices.

 DreadfullyHopeful wrote:

 l0k1 wrote:
So, Nurgle marked CSM units can get trash human......but Death Guard can't? That's just plain stupid.

Trash human philology ?

Is this becoming pedagogy, or merely etymology?

Voss wrote:

 DreadfullyHopeful wrote:

 l0k1 wrote:
So, Nurgle marked CSM units can get trash human......but Death Guard can't? That's just plain stupid.

Trash human philology ?

Is this becoming pedagogy, or merely etymology?

Who knows ? I thought about going for philately at first

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

drbored wrote:
... Necromunda, ... [has] 1/4th or even only 1/6th of the number of stratagems that 40k has...

Careful now. You might summon The Baxx, who has an encyclopediac memory of the 300+ gang tactics cards that exist.

EviscerationPlague wrote:
Some of y'all asked for separate codices for everything. This is what happens when GW listens to those few.

This has nothing to do with separate codices.

It absolutely does due to GW making things even MORE inconsistent than what they normally do.

 l0k1 wrote:
So, Nurgle marked CSM units can get trash human......but Death Guard can't? That's just plain stupid.

Clearly, the normal nurgle worshippers are more devoted than the scrubs of the death guard.

and even though there are "Nurgle" warbands that makes sense, like the bio-chemical warcrime division of imperial japan but in speesh that are the "Purge", it still is of great insight into the gw-rulesteam communication and general design coordination.
aka non, seemingly

Not Online!!! wrote:

 l0k1 wrote:
So, Nurgle marked CSM units can get trash human......but Death Guard can't? That's just plain stupid.

Clearly, the normal nurgle worshippers are more devoted than the scrubs of the death guard.

and even though there are "Nurgle" warbands that makes sense, like the bio-chemical warcrime division of imperial japan but in speesh that are the "Purge", it still is of great insight into the gw-rulesteam communication and general design coordination.
aka non, seemingly

God I wish we got some cool chemical weapon units for Nurgle marked Chaos Space Marines; Chem munitions, Phosphex, Rad weapons, etc.

 blood reaper wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

 l0k1 wrote:
So, Nurgle marked CSM units can get trash human......but Death Guard can't? That's just plain stupid.

Clearly, the normal nurgle worshippers are more devoted than the scrubs of the death guard.

and even though there are "Nurgle" warbands that makes sense, like the bio-chemical warcrime division of imperial japan but in speesh that are the "Purge", it still is of great insight into the gw-rulesteam communication and general design coordination.
aka non, seemingly

God I wish we got some cool chemical weapon units for Nurgle marked Chaos Space Marines; Chem munitions, Phosphex, Rad weapons, etc.

We had that, with the purge formation in 7th, which made templates dangerous terrain that lingered for a turn and better AP at the cost of getting hot i believe?

Problem was that some "very smart guy" decided to not tie it specifically to CSM, which allowed R&H which counted as CSM for battleforce organisation (and therefore was able to pick CSM formations) to take advantage of it, specifically the Vraks branch which could make artillery (thuddguns and heavy mortars) into troops...

Not much fun if half the map is now dangerous terrain, nvm you were then talking about t7 3+ sv troop choices thanks to how artillery worked. Oi you wanted to deepstrike there, better start rolling those mishap tables and say goodbye to your movement.

Reading posts like that reminds me of why I skipped 7th edition. I'm glad I did. That sounds awful.

EviscerationPlague wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

drbored wrote:
... Necromunda, ... [has] 1/4th or even only 1/6th of the number of stratagems that 40k has...

Careful now. You might summon The Baxx, who has an encyclopediac memory of the 300+ gang tactics cards that exist.

EviscerationPlague wrote:
Some of y'all asked for separate codices for everything. This is what happens when GW listens to those few.

This has nothing to do with separate codices.

It absolutely does due to GW making things even MORE inconsistent than what they normally do.

So the issue is not one of the idea of multiple codexes, but with GW's hamfisted execution of same.

There is nothing inherent to the idea of more books that determines their quality must be lower.

 Azreal13 wrote:

EviscerationPlague wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

drbored wrote:
... Necromunda, ... [has] 1/4th or even only 1/6th of the number of stratagems that 40k has...

Careful now. You might summon The Baxx, who has an encyclopediac memory of the 300+ gang tactics cards that exist.

EviscerationPlague wrote:
Some of y'all asked for separate codices for everything. This is what happens when GW listens to those few.

This has nothing to do with separate codices.

It absolutely does due to GW making things even MORE inconsistent than what they normally do.

So the issue is not one of the idea of multiple codexes, but with GW's hamfisted execution of same.

There is nothing inherent to the idea of more books that determines their quality must be lower.

Death Guard got by fine being in the main codex. Now there's arbitrary garbage like missing Venomcrawlers and Obliterators. There's more to I consistency than just stats and points and strats.

Yep, hence a lot of the other issues with Chaos Marines that GW doesn't seem interested in addressing.

Chaos Lords limited to three models, a decent if aged terminator lord that has options, an ancient jump pack lord with no options, and a weird mono-pose plastic lord with no options.

Obliterators coming in one-pose pairs and only in the start collecting. Same with the Venomcrawler. Who knows what's going to happen to those models when the start collecting disappears?

A weird and cringey mix of ooooold rhino-chassis vehicles and the Defiler with heavily baroque dino-bots, and the Heldrake which frankly I view as one of the worst flier models GW has ever released. It's clunky, difficult to transport, and its proportions are all over the place, from its gaping rear end to its always-banking-left pose.

Terminators and Chosen so limited on options from their sprues that they've just lumped all of the different weapons into a single profile.

Completely awful internal balance between the various chaos gods, while two of the gods have separate Codexes (Death Guard and Thousand Sons) and World Eaters MIA for the moment and Emperor's Children stuck in the main book.

There's so many inconsistencies that are very frustrating as a fan of Chaos Marines to deal with. All of it tells me one thing as a consumer: The Chaos Marine model line/rules are INCOMPLETE.

Until we get Emperor's Children and World Eaters as their own books, finish updating some of the old models in the Chaos Marine dex, and give the Venomcrawler and Obliterators their own boxes, the Chaos Marine line will remain plainly incomplete, and the only thing we can do as fans is... wait.

For years and years and years.

EviscerationPlague wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:

EviscerationPlague wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

drbored wrote:
... Necromunda, ... [has] 1/4th or even only 1/6th of the number of stratagems that 40k has...

Careful now. You might summon The Baxx, who has an encyclopediac memory of the 300+ gang tactics cards that exist.

EviscerationPlague wrote:
Some of y'all asked for separate codices for everything. This is what happens when GW listens to those few.

This has nothing to do with separate codices.

It absolutely does due to GW making things even MORE inconsistent than what they normally do.

So the issue is not one of the idea of multiple codexes, but with GW's hamfisted execution of same.

There is nothing inherent to the idea of more books that determines their quality must be lower.

Death Guard got by fine being in the main codex. Now there's arbitrary garbage like missing Venomcrawlers and Obliterators. There's more to I consistency than just stats and points and strats.

The price of getting PBC, drones and myphitic haulers instead.

We already had Drones through FW and FW provides a PBC before it being Nurgled (the Arquitor). That Death Guard are the only Legion to maintain those and not Black Legion and Iron Warriors is a bit silly when they don't have Warpsmiths available either.

EviscerationPlague wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:

EviscerationPlague wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

drbored wrote:
... Necromunda, ... [has] 1/4th or even only 1/6th of the number of stratagems that 40k has...

Careful now. You might summon The Baxx, who has an encyclopediac memory of the 300+ gang tactics cards that exist.

EviscerationPlague wrote:
Some of y'all asked for separate codices for everything. This is what happens when GW listens to those few.

This has nothing to do with separate codices.

It absolutely does due to GW making things even MORE inconsistent than what they normally do.

So the issue is not one of the idea of multiple codexes, but with GW's hamfisted execution of same.

There is nothing inherent to the idea of more books that determines their quality must be lower.

Death Guard got by fine being in the main codex. Now there's arbitrary garbage like missing Venomcrawlers and Obliterators. There's more to I consistency than just stats and points and strats.

Once again, not an issue inherent to them having their own book and everything to do with GW fumbling the ball.

Or in this case, just having a different of idea to you of what they think the army looks like, but I would be inclined to agree that most core units in a faction should have some degree of availability across all the sub factions.

If GW could wean themselves off re-selling their players the same book + a few changes every few years and switch to the same digital model that pretty much every other game company of note uses these days this wouldn't be an obstacle of course.

EviscerationPlague wrote:
We already had Drones through FW and FW provides a PBC before it being Nurgled (the Arquitor). That Death Guard are the only Legion to maintain those and not Black Legion and Iron Warriors is a bit silly when they don't have Warpsmiths available either.

The PBC is a siege weapon designed by Mortarions own hand according to their codex. To be a unique codex they needed to add and subtract units to create differences and prevent overlap where possible, hence new units and some losses.

Dudeface wrote:

EviscerationPlague wrote:
We already had Drones through FW and FW provides a PBC before it being Nurgled (the Arquitor). That Death Guard are the only Legion to maintain those and not Black Legion and Iron Warriors is a bit silly when they don't have Warpsmiths available either.

The PBC is a siege weapon designed by Mortarions own hand according to their codex. To be a unique codex they needed to add and subtract units to create differences and prevent overlap where possible, hence new units and some losses.

You DID see the Arquitor right? Mortarion did not design the PBC hahahaha

EviscerationPlague wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

EviscerationPlague wrote:
We already had Drones through FW and FW provides a PBC before it being Nurgled (the Arquitor). That Death Guard are the only Legion to maintain those and not Black Legion and Iron Warriors is a bit silly when they don't have Warpsmiths available either.

The PBC is a siege weapon designed by Mortarions own hand according to their codex. To be a unique codex they needed to add and subtract units to create differences and prevent overlap where possible, hence new units and some losses.

You DID see the Arquitor right? Mortarion did not design the PBC hahahaha

The designs for the first Plagueburst Crawlers were created by Mortarion as an act of spite. The Death Lord sought to create a mobile artillery piece that would outclass any comparative Imperial weapon, and thus demonstrate the Death Guard’s superiority over their former kin. For months he locked himself away in the smog-wreathed spires of the Black Manse on Plague Planet, obsessing endlessly over his foul brainchild, turning all of his remarkable intellect to the challenge. The resultant Daemon Engines reflect well the values of the figure that created them.

The Plagueburst came first then the Aquitor was released after. It's like how the Vulturax is similar to the FW Blight Drone but still different.

EviscerationPlague wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

EviscerationPlague wrote:
We already had Drones through FW and FW provides a PBC before it being Nurgled (the Arquitor). That Death Guard are the only Legion to maintain those and not Black Legion and Iron Warriors is a bit silly when they don't have Warpsmiths available either.

The PBC is a siege weapon designed by Mortarions own hand according to their codex. To be a unique codex they needed to add and subtract units to create differences and prevent overlap where possible, hence new units and some losses.

You DID see the Arquitor right? Mortarion did not design the PBC hahahaha

Me: "Oh that's such a cool tank...$170...noooooooooope"

Anyway - it would make sense that Mortarion would use that chassis as the foundation for the PBC.

 Gert wrote:
The Plagueburst came first then the Aquitor was released after. It's like how the Vulturax is similar to the FW Blight Drone but still different.

You still wouldn't say the Blight Drone was invented by Mortarion though.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Dudeface wrote:

EviscerationPlague wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

EviscerationPlague wrote:
We already had Drones through FW and FW provides a PBC before it being Nurgled (the Arquitor). That Death Guard are the only Legion to maintain those and not Black Legion and Iron Warriors is a bit silly when they don't have Warpsmiths available either.

The PBC is a siege weapon designed by Mortarions own hand according to their codex. To be a unique codex they needed to add and subtract units to create differences and prevent overlap where possible, hence new units and some losses.

You DID see the Arquitor right? Mortarion did not design the PBC hahahaha

The designs for the first Plagueburst Crawlers were created by Mortarion as an act of spite. The Death Lord sought to create a mobile artillery piece that would outclass any comparative Imperial weapon, and thus demonstrate the Death Guard’s superiority over their former kin. For months he locked himself away in the smog-wreathed spires of the Black Manse on Plague Planet, obsessing endlessly over his foul brainchild, turning all of his remarkable intellect to the challenge. The resultant Daemon Engines reflect well the values of the figure that created them.

It's the same exact tank with a shield in the front, dude. Mortarion can say he invented it but the game taking place before all that has the Arquitor.

EviscerationPlague wrote:

 Gert wrote:
The Plagueburst came first then the Aquitor was released after. It's like how the Vulturax is similar to the FW Blight Drone but still different.

You still wouldn't say the Blight Drone was invented by Mortarion though.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Dudeface wrote:

EviscerationPlague wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

EviscerationPlague wrote:
We already had Drones through FW and FW provides a PBC before it being Nurgled (the Arquitor). That Death Guard are the only Legion to maintain those and not Black Legion and Iron Warriors is a bit silly when they don't have Warpsmiths available either.

The PBC is a siege weapon designed by Mortarions own hand according to their codex. To be a unique codex they needed to add and subtract units to create differences and prevent overlap where possible, hence new units and some losses.

You DID see the Arquitor right? Mortarion did not design the PBC hahahaha

The designs for the first Plagueburst Crawlers were created by Mortarion as an act of spite. The Death Lord sought to create a mobile artillery piece that would outclass any comparative Imperial weapon, and thus demonstrate the Death Guard’s superiority over their former kin. For months he locked himself away in the smog-wreathed spires of the Black Manse on Plague Planet, obsessing endlessly over his foul brainchild, turning all of his remarkable intellect to the challenge. The resultant Daemon Engines reflect well the values of the figure that created them.

It's the same exact tank with a shield in the front, dude. Mortarion can say he invented it but the game taking place before all that has the Arquitor.

Mortarion is a fictional character, the writing studio says he invented it in the unit entry. The 30k tank was made after its release because they liked the design. Choose to ignore the in-game fluff if you wish.

...he could have used the Arquitor chassis as a base for the design? I don't see how it existing and Morty inventing the PBC are mutually exclusive.

EviscerationPlague wrote:

It's the same exact tank with a shield in the front, dude. Mortarion can say he invented it but the game taking place before all that has the Arquitor.

Fluffwise there's a lot more to Daemon engines than taking an imperial tank and painting it green. There's a whole convoluted process for summoning the right kind of daemons and binding them into the machine.

The 'invention' process would be less like someone sitting drawing blueprints, and more like the last 30mins of Event Horizon dragged out over several months.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

EviscerationPlague wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

EviscerationPlague wrote:
We already had Drones through FW and FW provides a PBC before it being Nurgled (the Arquitor). That Death Guard are the only Legion to maintain those and not Black Legion and Iron Warriors is a bit silly when they don't have Warpsmiths available either.

The PBC is a siege weapon designed by Mortarions own hand according to their codex. To be a unique codex they needed to add and subtract units to create differences and prevent overlap where possible, hence new units and some losses.

You DID see the Arquitor right? Mortarion did not design the PBC hahahaha

Me: "Oh that's such a cool tank...$170...noooooooooope"

Anyway - it would make sense that Mortarion would use that chassis as the foundation for the PBC.

Can DG even field the Arquitor? I don't see any 40k rules, only 30k.

Anyone knows where's the 40k rules?

Just realised CSM are likely going to be balanced against the current marine dex, we are probably going to be playing with an underpowered 'early 9th edition' codex well into 10thed.

But lets be honest as a CSM player half the hobby is complaining

 whembly wrote:

Can DG even field the Arquitor? I don't see any 40k rules, only 30k.

Anyone knows where's the 40k rules?

FW did the right thing for once and kept it as a HH exclusive unit.

arcanum wrote:
Just realised CSM are likely going to be balanced against the current marine dex, we are probably going to be playing with an underpowered 'early 9th edition' codex well into 10thed.

But lets be honest as a CSM player half the hobby is complaining

Possible they are working on SM 2.0 dex and they are balancing against that. It's not all doom and gloom fellas (and ladies).

 nathan2004 wrote:

arcanum wrote:
Just realised CSM are likely going to be balanced against the current marine dex, we are probably going to be playing with an underpowered 'early 9th edition' codex well into 10thed.

But lets be honest as a CSM player half the hobby is complaining

Possible they are working on SM 2.0 dex and they are balancing against that. It's not all doom and gloom fellas (and ladies).

That'll be the day.