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drbored wrote: Obliterators coming in one-pose pairs and only in the start collecting. Same with the Venomcrawler. Who knows what's going to happen to those models when the start collecting disappears?
They'll probably re-package them in a fashion similar to the Necrons Royal Court.
...and then charge you an extra $20 for the new box art.
She/Her
"There are no problems that cannot be solved with cannons." - Chief Engineer Boris Krauss of Nuln
Kid_Kyoto wrote:"Don't be a dick" and "This is a family wargame" are good rules of thumb.
arcanum wrote: Just realised CSM are likely going to be balanced against the current marine dex, we are probably going to be playing with an underpowered 'early 9th edition' codex well into 10thed.
I really don't think so. Nothing else lately is, and a lot of stuff is firmly aimed at being marine killers.
I think it does mean a SM 9.5 (9.75? 9.9?) codex, however.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/03/16 20:35:01
I truly believe GW has some issue with Chaos, even ignoring stupid gak like dropping Jump Pack Heroes and the weird Chosen/termi rules this codex seems incredibly weak
Compare it to stuff like the new Tau Codex or Eldar or Custodes or hell the Nid leaks all of those are cleary more powerful. Its like they want Chaos to be at a perpetual disadvantage. My theory is that they want less blood soaked killers and half naked sexlords on the tabletop. Probably why Nurgle and to a lesser degree Tzeentch get the love, some stupid ass corporate mandate to look more "presentable" so mommy and daddy will buy the kiddos stuff.
And the worst thing is we will probably see a new codex Space Marine that blows us out of the water in less than a year.
Ohh well at least I'll have fun modeling my guys and deploying them before I'm inevitably shot off the board time and time again
"I prayed to that corpse for a millenia with no response, what makes you think he'll answer you?"
2000 Loki Snaketongue and the Serpents of Malice
NinthMusketeer wrote: ...he could have used the Arquitor chassis as a base for the design? I don't see how it existing and Morty inventing the PBC are mutually exclusive.
Morty copied the Mechanicum's homework and fooled everybody. He was always a hypocrite.
Although yes, as much as I like the Arquitor and PBC, introducing the former after the latter when it'd already been established it was Morty's OC was pretty silly.
That's like saying all vehicles of the same basic shape are the same, which isn't at all true. Having a superficially similar exterior means next to nothing when they use different technology anyways.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
2x210 wrote: Compare it to stuff like the new Tau Codex or Eldar or Custodes or hell the Nid leaks all of those are cleary more powerful. Its like they want Chaos to be at a perpetual disadvantage. My theory is that they want less blood soaked killers and half naked sexlords on the tabletop. Probably why Nurgle and to a lesser degree Tzeentch get the love, some stupid ass corporate mandate to look more "presentable" so mommy and daddy will buy the kiddos stuff.
Might want to do at least the bare minimum of research on GW's model releases before tossing out a claim like that.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/03/16 22:57:58
2x210 wrote: I truly believe GW has some issue with Chaos, even ignoring stupid gak like dropping Jump Pack Heroes and the weird Chosen/termi rules this codex seems incredibly weak
Compare it to stuff like the new Tau Codex or Eldar or Custodes or hell the Nid leaks all of those are cleary more powerful. Its like they want Chaos to be at a perpetual disadvantage. My theory is that they want less blood soaked killers and half naked sexlords on the tabletop. Probably why Nurgle and to a lesser degree Tzeentch get the love, some stupid ass corporate mandate to look more "presentable" so mommy and daddy will buy the kiddos stuff.
And the worst thing is we will probably see a new codex Space Marine that blows us out of the water in less than a year.
Ohh well at least I'll have fun modeling my guys and deploying them before I'm inevitably shot off the board time and time again
No models no rules is not a new thing, its sucks but it is what it is. As far a rules go it pretty certain at this point if the rumors are accurate CSM will once again underpowered compared to more recent codices. Which is incredibly disappointing given the supposed importance of the Cicatrix Maledictum and Chaos supposedly having the Imperium on the ropes.
But disagree on it being on it being due to subject matter. Khorne has never had a problem with representation, no one cares about blood and guts. While Slaanesh is all cleaned up and presentable on the tabletop; the only breast are on creature that are clearly not humanoid.. I mean there's a model playing someone's innards as a harp. GW clearly wants to split off the god-specific factions as its stronger branding and allows for a more strongly themed product line; and that takes time. What they don't seem to have a clear vision for what to do with everyone else. Black Legion and the four Cult Legions are going to get model support, everyone else they'll just be paint jobs for now. Look at Chaos in AOS to see where this is going. So this might be more of a get us by codex.
NinthMusketeer wrote: That's like saying all vehicles of the same basic shape are the same, which isn't at all true. Having a superficially similar exterior means next to nothing when they use different technology anyways.
So how do you feel about the plethora of Leman Russ tank entries? Or that new Primaris Predator or Speeder?
NinthMusketeer wrote: That's like saying all vehicles of the same basic shape are the same, which isn't at all true. Having a superficially similar exterior means next to nothing when they use different technology anyways.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
2x210 wrote: Compare it to stuff like the new Tau Codex or Eldar or Custodes or hell the Nid leaks all of those are cleary more powerful. Its like they want Chaos to be at a perpetual disadvantage. My theory is that they want less blood soaked killers and half naked sexlords on the tabletop. Probably why Nurgle and to a lesser degree Tzeentch get the love, some stupid ass corporate mandate to look more "presentable" so mommy and daddy will buy the kiddos stuff.
Might want to do at least the bare minimum of research on GW's model releases before tossing out a claim like that.
Thousand Sons and Deathguard got entire new product lines along with Primarchs. 1000 Sons are super clean Egyptian style and Deathguard are just zombie bloated Marines neither of which are particularly offensive especially with Zombie media being prevalent. Meanwhile World Eaters and Emperor's Children have nothing new, Zerkers are one of the oldest sculpts still around and the only new Noise Marine is the single model with a guitar that came out a few years ago. I'm not talking about AoS or Demon models, and if I was I'd point out Slaneesh was completely remodeled and shelved for awhile until the fanbase got pissy enough to bring Shem back. But thats not my point, my point is Slaneesh as a "sex god" which might be an incredible simplification to the lore but nonetheless is what they are commonly seen as and Khorne being the hyper violent god lends themselves to conversions that accent these themes, conversions like that are something little Billy's mom would be more offended by then a rotting zombie since those have been all over mainstream media the past few years and certainly less offensive then Egyptian's in SPPAAAAACCEEEEE. The movement away from choices with Chaos models along with the lack of model support makes me think there is a corporate mandate to tread lighlty with those themes. Supposedly WE are coming soon so we will see what they go with as their ascetic but I would imagine gore and brutality will be toned down in favor of the gladiator look and theme. As for the Emperor's Children I wouldn't expect to see them for a long long time probably late 10th edition.
"I prayed to that corpse for a millenia with no response, what makes you think he'll answer you?"
2000 Loki Snaketongue and the Serpents of Malice
That's no more accurate now than it was last millennium when people were saying it.
We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
They always try to make sure the CSM codex is slightly weaker than the SM codex. Ever since that one time it wasn't and Chaos won the Eye of Terror campaign by mistake.
2x210 wrote: ... and if I was I'd point out Slaneesh was completely remodeled and shelved for awhile until the fanbase got pissy enough to bring Shem back.
Wasn't true then. Isn't true now.
2x210 wrote: But thats not my point, my point is Slaneesh as a "sex god" which might be an incredible simplification to the lore but nonetheless is what they are commonly seen as...
By meme-y 4channers who only have a superficial read on the situation.
Abadabadoobaddon wrote: They always try to make sure the CSM codex is slightly weaker than the SM codex. Ever since that one time it wasn't and Chaos won the Eye of Terror campaign by mistake.
NinthMusketeer wrote: That's like saying all vehicles of the same basic shape are the same, which isn't at all true. Having a superficially similar exterior means next to nothing when they use different technology anyways.
So how do you feel about the plethora of Leman Russ tank entries? Or that new Primaris Predator or Speeder?
The different Leman Russes are all just the same tank with different turret weapons. The floaty primaris tanks are just that: tanks that float, instead of using treads, like REAL TANKS should.
Anyways, what is it you're complaining about? That the 30k Bombard tanks don't have 40k rules?
Abadabadoobaddon wrote:They always try to make sure the CSM codex is slightly weaker than the SM codex. Ever since that one time it wasn't and Chaos won the Eye of Terror campaign by mistake.
Yeah, pretty much. Though I still think a lot of the issue is that gw can't stand the idea that CSM can be better than loyalists without using the POWER OF THE CHAOS GODS. Which is why they emphasize the Marked Legions, and always push Marks and Daemonic stuff for the Undivided Legions. Tougher because of Nurgle? Fine. Fightier because of Khorne? Fine. Better because you're a veteran of centuries of constant warfare? Nooooo, we can't have that.
Have Noise marines lost or gained any special rules
What are the other gods unique stratagem, does slaanesh still have the ability to shoot twice ? (thanks for telling us about Nurgle trans human physiology btw)
Curious about the wording, on the emperor's children trait, where they ignore modifiers to their WS/BS is this only negative modifiers or all modifiers ?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/03/17 03:55:16
Abadabadoobaddon wrote: They always try to make sure the CSM codex is slightly weaker than the SM codex. Ever since that one time it wasn't and Chaos won the Eye of Terror campaign by mistake.
Chaos won the Eye of Terror campaign because people figured out how to game the reporting system and decided to troll GW by reporting a bunch of wins for Chaos and Tau.
And hey, they did EVENTUALLY blow up Cadia, so... that's something.
Abadabadoobaddon wrote: They always try to make sure the CSM codex is slightly weaker than the SM codex. Ever since that one time it wasn't and Chaos won the Eye of Terror campaign by mistake.
Chaos won the Eye of Terror campaign because people figured out how to game the reporting system and decided to troll GW by reporting a bunch of wins for Chaos and Tau.
Chaos won because they figured out the mechanics of the system, and coordinated the reporting of wins to the systems and planets that would have maximum effect. Imperium lost because they were a disorganized herd of cats where half their players never figured out how to get from the sector-level map to system-level map and the other half reported all their wins to Caliban to drive the compliance up to 99% while Cadia got wrecked.
And GW have been exacting their revenge ever since.
NinthMusketeer wrote: That's like saying all vehicles of the same basic shape are the same, which isn't at all true. Having a superficially similar exterior means next to nothing when they use different technology anyways.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
2x210 wrote: Compare it to stuff like the new Tau Codex or Eldar or Custodes or hell the Nid leaks all of those are cleary more powerful. Its like they want Chaos to be at a perpetual disadvantage. My theory is that they want less blood soaked killers and half naked sexlords on the tabletop. Probably why Nurgle and to a lesser degree Tzeentch get the love, some stupid ass corporate mandate to look more "presentable" so mommy and daddy will buy the kiddos stuff.
Might want to do at least the bare minimum of research on GW's model releases before tossing out a claim like that.
Thousand Sons and Deathguard got entire new product lines along with [etc] Meanwhile World Eaters and Emperor's Children have nothing new, Zerkers are one of the oldest sculpts still around [etc]
Yeah but... a comparison to AOS tells an entirely different story in which khorne was the poster child baddies of the reboot, and slaanesh had a major update with IMHO a pretty successful look or certainly one that I would argue isn't just phoned in. It's almost like GW's model has switched to sometimes major (and yes sometimes there are minor ones) overhauls of dated lines to create new faction identities, and EC and WE haven't had their turn yet.
Abadabadoobaddon wrote: They always try to make sure the CSM codex is slightly weaker than the SM codex. Ever since that one time it wasn't and Chaos won the Eye of Terror campaign by mistake.
NinthMusketeer wrote: That's like saying all vehicles of the same basic shape are the same, which isn't at all true. Having a superficially similar exterior means next to nothing when they use different technology anyways.
So how do you feel about the plethora of Leman Russ tank entries? Or that new Primaris Predator or Speeder?
The different Leman Russes are all just the same tank with different turret weapons. The floaty primaris tanks are just that: tanks that float, instead of using treads, like REAL TANKS should.
Anyways, what is it you're complaining about? That the 30k Bombard tanks don't have 40k rules?
Abadabadoobaddon wrote:They always try to make sure the CSM codex is slightly weaker than the SM codex. Ever since that one time it wasn't and Chaos won the Eye of Terror campaign by mistake.
Yeah, pretty much. Though I still think a lot of the issue is that gw can't stand the idea that CSM can be better than loyalists without using the POWER OF THE CHAOS GODS. Which is why they emphasize the Marked Legions, and always push Marks and Daemonic stuff for the Undivided Legions. Tougher because of Nurgle? Fine. Fightier because of Khorne? Fine. Better because you're a veteran of centuries of constant warfare? Nooooo, we can't have that.
To be fair, centuries of constant warfare would leave the survivors crippled and mad, so having no space god magic to call on, that seems legit.
NinthMusketeer wrote: That's like saying all vehicles of the same basic shape are the same, which isn't at all true. Having a superficially similar exterior means next to nothing when they use different technology anyways.
So how do you feel about the plethora of Leman Russ tank entries? Or that new Primaris Predator or Speeder?
The different Leman Russes are all just the same tank with different turret weapons. The floaty primaris tanks are just that: tanks that float, instead of using treads, like REAL TANKS should.
Anyways, what is it you're complaining about? That the 30k Bombard tanks don't have 40k rules?
Abadabadoobaddon wrote:They always try to make sure the CSM codex is slightly weaker than the SM codex. Ever since that one time it wasn't and Chaos won the Eye of Terror campaign by mistake.
Yeah, pretty much. Though I still think a lot of the issue is that gw can't stand the idea that CSM can be better than loyalists without using the POWER OF THE CHAOS GODS. Which is why they emphasize the Marked Legions, and always push Marks and Daemonic stuff for the Undivided Legions. Tougher because of Nurgle? Fine. Fightier because of Khorne? Fine. Better because you're a veteran of centuries of constant warfare? Nooooo, we can't have that.
To be fair, centuries of constant warfare would leave the survivors crippled and mad, so having no space god magic to call on, that seems legit.
I know you're just trying to annoy me, but wouldn't that also apply for other long lived factions? Custodes, Eldar, etc?
Gert wrote: Nobody point out to Voss that the Great Crusade was 200 years long and there were Astartes who served from the start to the end without going bananas.
Heck, there are Astartes from the very first batch who are still kicking around and aren't (completely) insane.
Abadabadoobaddon wrote: They always try to make sure the CSM codex is slightly weaker than the SM codex. Ever since that one time it wasn't and Chaos won the Eye of Terror campaign by mistake.
Can't have the bad guys winning apparently
The World That Was would like a word with you...
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/03/17 20:35:40
She/Her
"There are no problems that cannot be solved with cannons." - Chief Engineer Boris Krauss of Nuln
Kid_Kyoto wrote:"Don't be a dick" and "This is a family wargame" are good rules of thumb.
NinthMusketeer wrote: That's like saying all vehicles of the same basic shape are the same, which isn't at all true. Having a superficially similar exterior means next to nothing when they use different technology anyways.
So how do you feel about the plethora of Leman Russ tank entries? Or that new Primaris Predator or Speeder?
The different Leman Russes are all just the same tank with different turret weapons. The floaty primaris tanks are just that: tanks that float, instead of using treads, like REAL TANKS should.
Anyways, what is it you're complaining about? That the 30k Bombard tanks don't have 40k rules?
Abadabadoobaddon wrote:They always try to make sure the CSM codex is slightly weaker than the SM codex. Ever since that one time it wasn't and Chaos won the Eye of Terror campaign by mistake.
Yeah, pretty much. Though I still think a lot of the issue is that gw can't stand the idea that CSM can be better than loyalists without using the POWER OF THE CHAOS GODS. Which is why they emphasize the Marked Legions, and always push Marks and Daemonic stuff for the Undivided Legions. Tougher because of Nurgle? Fine. Fightier because of Khorne? Fine. Better because you're a veteran of centuries of constant warfare? Nooooo, we can't have that.
To be fair, centuries of constant warfare would leave the survivors crippled and mad, so having no space god magic to call on, that seems legit.
I know you're just trying to annoy me, but wouldn't that also apply for other long lived factions? Custodes, Eldar, etc?
Nope and Nope.
As for Custodes and Eldar. The latter actually have health care facilities and a complete mental break/disassociation with their lives as soldiers. The former are just oiled up 'hot bois' in leather pants who posed outside a throne room 10,000 years. What issues would they have? Beyond trying to cope with the Great Retcon of 2017...
Marines are intentionally ground down into psychopaths and degenerate from there. Chaos ones are lucky if someone is going staple an arm back on rather than eat it.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/03/17 20:55:20
