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EviscerationPlague wrote: We don't need rules negating thr negation of Invul. We need no negation of Invul to begin with, or at least total negation.
Preaching to choir, but since this non-sense is out their, Chaos Daemons need away to defeat it. Without their invulnerable saves daemons are all relying on t-shirt saves.
EviscerationPlague wrote: We don't need rules negating thr negation of Invul. We need no negation of Invul to begin with, or at least total negation.
Preaching to choir, but since this non-sense is out their, Chaos Daemons need away to defeat it. Without their invulnerable saves daemons are all relying on t-shirt saves.
Especially since they are mainly a melee army. Speaking of, since "the thing" with armies in 9th is shouting down half of the opposing army in one turn. I wonder how the design team will go about making the army completely busted
Well, but we already got it, so might as well follow up on it.
Honestly, an easy way to fix this is to give Daemons a save that's not an invulnerable save.
Call it a 'Warp Save'. Then, anything that ignores invul saves doesn't ignore warp saves, and daemons immediately become a counter to invul-countering armies.
I also like the idea of Chaos Daemons being treated like Harlequins in the Chaos Marine Codex. Of course, it wouldn't really be a 'Chaos Marine' Codex at that point.. probably more a 'Forces of Chaos' Codex... which I"m not totally opposed to.
Well, but we already got it, so might as well follow up on it.
Honestly, an easy way to fix this is to give Daemons a save that's not an invulnerable save.
Call it a 'Warp Save'. Then, anything that ignores invul saves doesn't ignore warp saves, and daemons immediately become a counter to invul-countering armies.
Until 10th, where Gray Knights, Sisters of Silence, 'Nids and probably a bunch of random bastards start getting rules where they ignore Warp Saves.
"Tabletop games are the only setting when a body is made more horrifying for NOT being chopped into smaller pieces."
- Jiado
EviscerationPlague wrote: We don't need rules negating thr negation of Invul. We need no negation of Invul to begin with, or at least total negation.
Preaching to choir, but since this non-sense is out their, Chaos Daemons need away to defeat it. Without their invulnerable saves daemons are all relying on t-shirt saves.
Especially since they are mainly a melee army. Speaking of, since "the thing" with armies in 9th is shouting down half of the opposing army in one turn. I wonder how the design team will go about making the army completely busted
The army doesn't deploy - it all materializes in via deep strike turn one.
She/Her
"There are no problems that cannot be solved with cannons." - Chief Engineer Boris Krauss of Nuln
Kid_Kyoto wrote:"Don't be a dick" and "This is a family wargame" are good rules of thumb.
EviscerationPlague wrote: We don't need rules negating thr negation of Invul. We need no negation of Invul to begin with, or at least total negation.
Preaching to choir, but since this non-sense is out their, Chaos Daemons need away to defeat it. Without their invulnerable saves daemons are all relying on t-shirt saves.
Especially since they are mainly a melee army. Speaking of, since "the thing" with armies in 9th is shouting down half of the opposing army in one turn. I wonder how the design team will go about making the army completely busted
Here's hoping that they don't. I'd rather not hear everyone screaming that CSM need to be "NERFED! NERFED RIGHT NOW!!".
Wha-Mu-077 wrote: Until 10th, where Gray Knights, Sisters of Silence, 'Nids and probably a bunch of random bastards start getting rules where they ignore Warp Saves.
Especially Rail Guns, who will ignore this because they shoot a piece of metal really fast.
I never want Daemons to go back to that. Never made any damned sense. My full army just showed up to this empty field/city/whatever and then, suddenly, Daemons!
Also Daemons having a separate codex makes WAY more sense than 4-5 Marine codices.
In a sense that they have their own units, but thematically it is still weird. And the daemons have not enough units for properly functioning monogod armies. It just makes more sense if mortal followers of god X and daemons of god X are the same army. The most likely occurrence of daemons is them being summoned by mortal chaos adherents, so separating these in two different forces makes little sense.
Custodes have 2 HQ, 1 Troop, 1 Fast Attack, 4 Elites, and 1 Heavy Support barring FW. That's enough for a codex. Harlequins have even less.
The problem is a lot of those demon units do the exact same thing. There's very little role-diversity within each God's own force, and when there is diversity GW tends to penalise them so they aren't as good or efficient as that of the god whose toes are being stepped on.
Yep. About 80% of each gods units are basically identical in terms of their combat capability and only really vary on speed or number of attacks rolled or toughness/save/wound count, etc. but not in terms of the strength/ap/damage capability of the attacks made. Seekers of Slaanesh are ultimately just faster Daemonettes insofar as your opponents ability to survive an attack from them, for example. I think thats why Tzeentch tends to be the most capable of the monogod armies (depending on the edition) as they tend to have a more diverse set of capability which is able to handle a wider degree of foes and scenarios, etc.
Thats why I think 2-3 kits per god would fix a lot of problems - and it would be roughly the same number of kits that Aeldari just got (9) or that CSM seem likely to get in the future. The alternative is to bulk out the "undivided" side of the house with 3-6 kits (plus the existing furies, daemon princes, and soul grinders) to offer all 4 armies a solid and capable roster of "universal" daemon units that can be taken with any god that are capable of filling some of the holes that the various factions suffer from.
CoALabaer wrote: Wargamers hate two things: the state of the game and change.
Gadzilla666 wrote: It's bad enough that there are rules that ignore other rules. We definitely don't need rules that ignore the rule that ignores the other rule.
EviscerationPlague wrote: We don't need rules negating thr negation of Invul. We need no negation of Invul to begin with, or at least total negation.
Preaching to choir, but since this non-sense is out their, Chaos Daemons need away to defeat it. Without their invulnerable saves daemons are all relying on t-shirt saves.
Especially since they are mainly a melee army. Speaking of, since "the thing" with armies in 9th is shouting down half of the opposing army in one turn. I wonder how the design team will go about making the army completely busted
Here's hoping that they don't. I'd rather not hear everyone screaming that CSM need to be "NERFED! NERFED RIGHT NOW!!".
With the trend throughout all of 9th edition, where new codexes are super-powered and then get nerfed back a few months later, I honestly can't expect any other outcome. We see it happening with Eldar and people are already freaking out about leaks for Tyranids and Knights. It'll happen with Chaos Marines, just in time for the new edition to make all of the rules that make us special to be irrelevant.
But hey, at least we might get a full year to use the codex before the new edition this time around.
drbored wrote: It'll happen with Chaos Marines, just in time for the new edition to make all of the rules that make us special to be irrelevant.
Given how much we're losing, I doubt that we'll get that brief moment of superiority.
But hey, maybe in the next 2 editions we might finally get a multi-part chaos lord right? And then it'll all be ok... right?
Yeah, my chaos marines are gunna be going into deep storage while I work on other things. Like my Sisters of Battle. At least they're all plastic and new sculpts, except the priests.
Cultist HQ squad
-The banner:rerolls 1s to hit for cultists & +2Ld to cultists
-psyker: cast 1 deny 1
-priest: knows the basic prayer and another, always lands prayer on a 3+
-squad of 5 models
Disco lord:
-Techno virus injector: in engagement range all weapons get +1 damage vs VEHICULES
-impaler chainglaive: Suser ap3 d2; on the charge +1 to wound
-the melta mouth weapon is a melta pistol
-6a base
-claws and tail are 4 additional attacks @ S6 ap2 d2
-mechadentritees: 4x s4 ap0 d1
-ability to wound vehicules: you can corrupt a vehicule: roll a d6 for every wound that a vehicule has on a 6s=1MW (maximum of 6)
-if you kill an ennemy vehicule in melee you can corrupt 2 different vehichles instead of just 1. The double corruption ability is gained for the rest of the game.
Night lord stratagems:
-no fall back strat (seems unchanged)
-fall back and charge(seems unchanged)
--1 to hit if fired upon (seems unchanged)
- rerolls to hit if Ld is higher then ennemies (used to be +1 to hit)
-there are no more stratagems that influences moral
-lost the stratagem that gives +2 to the charge and +1 to hit in melee from terrain
clockworkchris9 wrote: Cultist HQ squad
-The banner:rerolls 1s to hit for cultists & +2Ld to cultists
-psyker: cast 1 deny 1
-priest: knows the basic prayer and another, always lands prayer on a 3+
-squad of 5 models
n
No option to add bodies?
pft.
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units." Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?" Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?" GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!" Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.
clockworkchris9 wrote: Cultist HQ squad
-The banner:rerolls 1s to hit for cultists & +2Ld to cultists
-psyker: cast 1 deny 1
-priest: knows the basic prayer and another, always lands prayer on a 3+
-squad of 5 models
n
No option to add bodies?
pft.
Yeah...
I was initially enthused by a cultist command squad, but a buff banner, a psyker and a priest buff bot is just such a high priority target that there's zero reason not to just reach out and remove it from the table.
If there aren't any defensive abilities, any 9th edition army can just... do that. Its basically auto-delete.
Might work if they make them Characters. LOS doesn't care if you've got more than one model in the unit, just that you've got a Wounds stat of 9 or less.
Eh I wouldn't jump that far just yet. If it's dirt cheap and can be hidden out of LoS it becomes reasonably viable by being a higher investment of resources for the opponent to kill than it took to actually bring.
Laughing Man wrote: Might work if they make them Characters. LOS doesn't care if you've got more than one model in the unit, just that you've got a Wounds stat of 9 or less.
Remind me-is Assassinate 3 Points per Character UNIT or MODEL?
Because if it's per Model... That one squad is a full 15 VP, assuming they're all characters.
Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne!
Laughing Man wrote: Might work if they make them Characters. LOS doesn't care if you've got more than one model in the unit, just that you've got a Wounds stat of 9 or less.
Remind me-is Assassinate 3 Points per Character UNIT or MODEL?
Because if it's per Model... That one squad is a full 15 VP, assuming they're all characters.
Model.
"Tabletop games are the only setting when a body is made more horrifying for NOT being chopped into smaller pieces."
- Jiado
Laughing Man wrote: Might work if they make them Characters. LOS doesn't care if you've got more than one model in the unit, just that you've got a Wounds stat of 9 or less.
Remind me-is Assassinate 3 Points per Character UNIT or MODEL?
Because if it's per Model... That one squad is a full 15 VP, assuming they're all characters.
They're a squad, even in the unlikely event 5 guys were a singular character, that's still a unit so 3 points for the unit.
Laughing Man wrote: Might work if they make them Characters. LOS doesn't care if you've got more than one model in the unit, just that you've got a Wounds stat of 9 or less.
Remind me-is Assassinate 3 Points per Character UNIT or MODEL?
Because if it's per Model... That one squad is a full 15 VP, assuming they're all characters.
Laughing Man wrote: Might work if they make them Characters. LOS doesn't care if you've got more than one model in the unit, just that you've got a Wounds stat of 9 or less.
Remind me-is Assassinate 3 Points per Character UNIT or MODEL?
Because if it's per Model... That one squad is a full 15 VP, assuming they're all characters.
They're a squad, even in the unlikely event 5 guys were a singular character, that's still a unit so 3 points for the unit.
Unless that's an edited picture, it's per Model.
So 15 Points.
Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne!
Laughing Man wrote: Might work if they make them Characters. LOS doesn't care if you've got more than one model in the unit, just that you've got a Wounds stat of 9 or less.
Remind me-is Assassinate 3 Points per Character UNIT or MODEL?
Because if it's per Model... That one squad is a full 15 VP, assuming they're all characters.
Laughing Man wrote: Might work if they make them Characters. LOS doesn't care if you've got more than one model in the unit, just that you've got a Wounds stat of 9 or less.
Remind me-is Assassinate 3 Points per Character UNIT or MODEL?
Because if it's per Model... That one squad is a full 15 VP, assuming they're all characters.
They're a squad, even in the unlikely event 5 guys were a singular character, that's still a unit so 3 points for the unit.
Unless that's an edited picture, it's per Model.
So 15 Points.
Then the logical conclusion is that a unit of 5 guys isn't a character? Not sure why it'd have the character key word. Nearest parallel is the guard command squads which aren't characters but have a vox, medic, standard, heavy and special weapon in.
They're either Characters (and so benefit from LoS), not Characters but have a rule that lets them use LoS or otherwise stay safe, or they're just dead.
Given GW's track record with CSM, I'm guessing option 1 or 3.
Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne!
JNAProductions wrote: They're either Characters (and so benefit from LoS), not Characters but have a rule that lets them use LoS or otherwise stay safe, or they're just dead.
Given GW's track record with CSM, I'm guessing option 1 or 3.
I'd wager 3 tbh, I'd hope they're cheap enough to not really matter though. Does make you wonder if they can use rhinos however.
