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Lord Zarkov wrote:

EviscerationPlague wrote:

EightFoldPath wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

NinthMusketeer wrote:I remember when fears about a new codex did not include losing half a model's wargear options.

No kidding. The whole "characters don't get jump packs" thing would invalidate every character that I have except for my ONE Terminator Lord. That bit of "no model no rules" insanity could be a deal breaker for me.

It is very GW though. They want you to buy the new HQs they made in the last few years, Dark Apostle, Lord Discordant, Master of Possessions, Sorcerer on Foot, Monopose Chaos Lord. A new Warpsmith has also just been added. They don't want the best HQs to be Kitbashed Jump Sorc and Legacy Chaos Lord with Jump Pack.

There is some gameplay balance behind it too, e.g. limiting a powerful buff character like a Dark Apostle to just a foot build is very sensible. Could you imagine if GW was run by fools and they released a Dark Apostle on a huge 90mm oval base and gave him a move characteristic of 14" so he could apply his buffs too easily? You would probably not see the foot version in a game again.

So why is it gameplay balance for Dark Apostles but not Chaplains, whom get Jump Pack access and a LOT more litanies to spew?

I think you missed the dripping sarcasm there, given the oblique reference to the Primaris Chaplain on Bike.

We have people on this forum that unironically defend GW on this. So I would miss it.

Yeah it has nothing to do with game balance, lol. The idea that there is game balance that you would need to worry about when it comes to a few character options is already pretty laughable.

GW had, for a solid decade ahead of 9th edition, a small but vocal group of people that were complaining about the cost of having to kit-bash things like Techmarines on Bikes and Sorcerers with Jump Packs. After all, that meant that in order to get those things, you'd have to buy two kits! On top of that, by using one kit to boost another, the first kit often can't then make a full squad!

Enter price hikes, the new mantra of 'rules fit the box', and other things and it makes an awkward sort of sense that GW would pull these options. Now, it only makes an 'awkward sense' because in the back room where they hide all of the designers, they could absolutely tell the guys and gals 'we need a chaos lord with a few new options' and set them to task. I don't believe that GW's entire business model is driven by the whims of their designers. There is definitely some creative direction, else we wouldn't ever have gotten the Eldar sculpts that we've gotten.

THAT is what stings about this the most. It's not that these options for jump packs and various weapons have been take away, it's that the company never deigned it worthwhile to make a new kit with some new options in it. We know they can. The new Autarch, the Sisters of Battle Canoness, the new Space Marine Gravis Captain, etc. But they haven't, and instead they've pulled the Jump Pack Lord, stripped all those options, and tell us:

'make do with this one chaos lord with an ugly topknot, thunder hammer that nobody else in the army can have, and a plasma pistol and literally nothing else.'

Now, we still haven't seen the full release. There could, somehow, somewhere, be a new Chaos Lord lurking in there that the rumors and the playtests didn't have, and gosh I really hope they've been keeping that secret close to their chest...

The 'no-model-no-rules' policy started coming into effect after the Chapterhouse Lawsuit, well before GW started keeping tabs on the community again. Remember that before 2016 GW did not do market research and had come to believe their own alternate reality so much that they launched Age of Sigmar with four-page rules and no balance mechanism at all.

And even then, for every person complaining about that sort of thing there were two coming back that it was better than not having the option at all. Even considering the already unlikely scenario that it was a feedback based decision, it wouldn't have been based on all feedback but rather a specific subset. I don't see the theory as having much ground to stand on.

As I said at the time, the Chaptehouse v Games Workshop was like the tagline from the first Alien vs Predator movie:

Whoever wins... we lose.

The Eldar Autarch is a good example of what to do. Once the codex is out and we know what restrictions are in place, we just need to push back hard (but politely) on one or two easily fixable problems.

Hopefully if this keeps happening by 10th edition we might see GW start to reverse the trend and allow weapon options back onto models.

All right roller coaster ride of a morning, I will start woth the bad news

Chaos lord
-can only have bolt or plasma pistol

custom legion traits
-as like every other codex, pick 2 to build you own warband unless the trait is all encompassing then you only get the one
-undivided trait is all encompassing

Chosen
-the rule is simply pick a trait from the custom legion traits, if the unit is markless it can pick any custom trait except the marked ones, if the unit is marked it can pick its mark specific one or any of the markless ones
-chosen cannot use an all encompassing trait as their extra trait

Generic WLT
-for the puposes of CA ennemy units always count as if at half strength

Generic stratagems
-for bolt rounds +6" & +1ap for the unit

BL stratagems
-1 unit can be considered destruction/massacre/slaughter at the same time, core units only

EC info
-noise marine weapons are GOOD, i wont push him more, he is clesrly not ready to share this
-EC dont need to pay for slaanesh marks

EC stratagems
-honour the prince is still there
-the sonic weapons strat does mortal wounds now, no longer +1s +1d

WB stratagems
-no more strat for possessed +1d
-the auto pass psyker spell is still there
-the auto save strat has been changed to take 0 damage instead
-they have 2 strats that affect daemonkin or possessed

IW stratagems
-reduce incoming ap strat is gone
-cultist bodyguards are still therw

NL WLT
-+1 CA to ennemies & always consolidate 3" in any direction, even if touching base to base

NL stratagems
-if you slay the ennemy warlord, +1 CA to ennemies for the rest of the game

 clockworkchris9 wrote:
All right roller coaster ride of a morning, I will start woth the bad news

Chaos lord
-can only have bolt or plasma pistol

I am content, 9 times out of 10 I'm taking one of these two ranged weapons, rarely bother with anything else.

chaos0xomega wrote:

 clockworkchris9 wrote:
All right roller coaster ride of a morning, I will start woth the bad news

Chaos lord
-can only have bolt or plasma pistol

I am content, 9 times out of 10 I'm taking one of these two ranged weapons, rarely bother with anything else.

Good for you. Everyone else? Not so much. What happened to "basic loadout is plasma pistol + hammer, but has access to all melee weapons"? And where's the bolt pistol coming from? The Chaos Lord kit only includes a plasma pistol. What? We're allowed to kitbash a bolt pistol, but nothing else?

Edit: And "Yay!", more ways for Night Lords to stack up Combat Attrition modifiers. That's great....if you ignore the fact that the most common faction in the game ignores all Combat Attrition modifiers.

Yeah I had been running a Chaos Lord with a combi-bolter and taking that awesome Alpha Legion sniper relic, but now it's gone, like tears in the rain - or bloody pee in a storm drain.

More stuff

NL relics
-claws of the black hunt are back but jave been renamed, S+1 ap3 D2, does not gain reroll wounds instead gains ennemies canoot use rules that ignore wounds
-vox daemonicus is 12" no deepstrike & ennemies must pass a leadership test or cannot perform actions or psychic actions
- flayer is still there and seem to be exactly the same

If you want a laugh, leaker pointed out in terms of weapons names the book is a mess. Lightning claws appear 3 times under different names

-Warpclaws (for warp talons, dont worry they -are lightning claws in everything but name)
Accursed weapons
-And actual lightning claws

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:

 clockworkchris9 wrote:
All right roller coaster ride of a morning, I will start woth the bad news

Chaos lord
-can only have bolt or plasma pistol

I am content, 9 times out of 10 I'm taking one of these two ranged weapons, rarely bother with anything else.

Good for you. Everyone else? Not so much. What happened to "basic loadout is plasma pistol + hammer, but has access to all melee weapons"? And where's the bolt pistol coming from? The Chaos Lord kit only includes a plasma pistol. What? We're allowed to kitbash a bolt pistol, but nothing else?

Edit: And "Yay!", more ways for Night Lords to stack up Combat Attrition modifiers. That's great....if you ignore the fact that the most common faction in the game ignores all Combat Attrition modifiers.

I mean that tracks right? The faction that relies on fear tactics won't have an effect on the faction that knows no fear.

 BrotherGecko wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:

 clockworkchris9 wrote:
All right roller coaster ride of a morning, I will start woth the bad news

Chaos lord
-can only have bolt or plasma pistol

I am content, 9 times out of 10 I'm taking one of these two ranged weapons, rarely bother with anything else.

Good for you. Everyone else? Not so much. What happened to "basic loadout is plasma pistol + hammer, but has access to all melee weapons"? And where's the bolt pistol coming from? The Chaos Lord kit only includes a plasma pistol. What? We're allowed to kitbash a bolt pistol, but nothing else?

Edit: And "Yay!", more ways for Night Lords to stack up Combat Attrition modifiers. That's great....if you ignore the fact that the most common faction in the game ignores all Combat Attrition modifiers.

I mean that tracks right? The faction that relies on fear tactics won't have an effect on the faction that knows no fear.

They do more than "fear tactics". And it's another reason why basing a faction on leadership shenanigans doesn't work in a game where a large number of factions and units are either fearless or effectively fearless. The codex writers in earlier editions realized that, and emphasized other aspects of the Legion instead.

And nice to see that Claws of the Black Hunt are getting nerfed. I guess they were just a little too OP for gw.

Claws were an auto include, but they still have some use so im glad of the minor nerf

chaos0xomega wrote:

 clockworkchris9 wrote:
All right roller coaster ride of a morning, I will start woth the bad news

Chaos lord
-can only have bolt or plasma pistol

I am content, 9 times out of 10 I'm taking one of these two ranged weapons, rarely bother with anything else.

See what I mean when I said earlier people unironically defend GW on these things?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

 BrotherGecko wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:

 clockworkchris9 wrote:
All right roller coaster ride of a morning, I will start woth the bad news

Chaos lord
-can only have bolt or plasma pistol

I am content, 9 times out of 10 I'm taking one of these two ranged weapons, rarely bother with anything else.

Good for you. Everyone else? Not so much. What happened to "basic loadout is plasma pistol + hammer, but has access to all melee weapons"? And where's the bolt pistol coming from? The Chaos Lord kit only includes a plasma pistol. What? We're allowed to kitbash a bolt pistol, but nothing else?

Edit: And "Yay!", more ways for Night Lords to stack up Combat Attrition modifiers. That's great....if you ignore the fact that the most common faction in the game ignores all Combat Attrition modifiers.

I mean that tracks right? The faction that relies on fear tactics won't have an effect on the faction that knows no fear.

They do more than "fear tactics". And it's another reason why basing a faction on leadership shenanigans doesn't work in a game where a large number of factions and units are either fearless or effectively fearless. The codex writers in earlier editions realized that, and emphasized other aspects of the Legion instead.

And nice to see that Claws of the Black Hunt are getting nerfed. I guess they were just a little too OP for gw.

Can't have rerolling wounds, that'd be too powerful!

 clockworkchris9 wrote:
More stuff

NL relics
-claws of the black hunt are back but jave been renamed, S+1 ap3 D2, does not gain reroll wounds instead gains ennemies canoot use rules that ignore wounds
-vox daemonicus is 12" no deepstrike & ennemies must pass a leadership test or cannot perform actions or psychic actions
- flayer is still there and seem to be exactly the same

If you want a laugh, leaker pointed out in terms of weapons names the book is a mess. Lightning claws appear 3 times under different names

-Warpclaws (for warp talons, dont worry they -are lightning claws in everything but name)
Accursed weapons
-And actual lightning claws

Query on the accursed weapon bit - according to earlier leaks those don't reroll wounds like lightning claws do, so they're actually not the same, right?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

EviscerationPlague wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:

 clockworkchris9 wrote:
All right roller coaster ride of a morning, I will start woth the bad news

Chaos lord
-can only have bolt or plasma pistol

I am content, 9 times out of 10 I'm taking one of these two ranged weapons, rarely bother with anything else.

See what I mean when I said earlier people unironically defend GW on these things?

Jumping from "I don't care because I only use bolt pistols anyway" to "defending GW" is a big leap there buddy.

Haha, yeah he had the gall to say "I personally don't mind this" so now he's apparently being "unironic" about things.

NL WLT
- the horrible warlord trait of once per battle you can reroll 1 dice for hit, wounds, advance, charge and saves has been changed. It is now once per turn you can auto 6 a dice for hit, wound, advance or saves
-+D3 attacks & warlord is considered always in the slaughter phase... this is evil on a disco lord
-+1 to armor and invul saves in terrain is GONE
-fall back and charge + -1 to hit is GONE


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Yeah i meant thst in the sense that accursed weapons use ligntning claws visually. Accursed are just powerd swords +1a nothing else.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
NL relic
-stormbolt plate, infantry only, 2+ save and untargetable beyond 12"
-vox daemonocus is infantry only

Ignore me. I read it wrong.

I got super excited earlier browsing the CSM range and thought the banner included a tease of the upcoming models. Unfortunately, it was just alternate versions of the new chosen kit. It makes me once again question why GW chose to have the spotlight on the two terrible bald head options for Eldritch Omens, when they had these much nicer version painted up and ready to go

Also the warptalon is missing one of his vanes

JWBS wrote:
Haha, yeah he had the gall to say "I personally don't mind this" so now he's apparently being "unironic" about things.

Oh boy, more defending of GW on this. Amazing.

EviscerationPlague wrote:

JWBS wrote:
Haha, yeah he had the gall to say "I personally don't mind this" so now he's apparently being "unironic" about things.

Oh boy, more defending of GW on this. Amazing.

Please examine for my lay self how that equates to defending GW, as I don't see it.

There is the wonderful category of comment that is neither praising nor decrying GW.

Not having to pay for mark of slaanesh, as emperor’s children is super nice.

 clockworkchris9 wrote:
NL WLT
- the horrible warlord trait of once per battle you can reroll 1 dice for hit, wounds, advance, charge and saves has been changed. It is now once per turn you can auto 6 a dice for hit, wound, advance or saves
-+D3 attacks & warlord is considered always in the slaughter phase... this is evil on a disco lord
-+1 to armor and invul saves in terrain is GONE
-fall back and charge + -1 to hit is GONE


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Yeah i meant thst in the sense that accursed weapons use ligntning claws visually. Accursed are just powerd swords +1a nothing else.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
NL relic
-stormbolt plate, infantry only, 2+ save and untargetable beyond 12"
-vox daemonocus is infantry only

Thanks for the news !

Could you ask if EC have a way to make Noise marines troupes ? The free Slanesh mark gives me hope.

Check the B&C recap posts it has you covered

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:

 clockworkchris9 wrote:
All right roller coaster ride of a morning, I will start woth the bad news

Chaos lord
-can only have bolt or plasma pistol

I am content, 9 times out of 10 I'm taking one of these two ranged weapons, rarely bother with anything else.

Good for you. Everyone else? Not so much. What happened to "basic loadout is plasma pistol + hammer, but has access to all melee weapons"? And where's the bolt pistol coming from? The Chaos Lord kit only includes a plasma pistol. What? We're allowed to kitbash a bolt pistol, but nothing else?

I assumed he was talking only about ranged options there and that the "but has access to all melee weapons" still applies, which is why I said I'm content. It lets me keep the builds I actually used. If its really a choice of bolt pistol or plasma pistol and I'm stuck with the hammer then I'm not content anymore - that would suck.

EviscerationPlague wrote:

See what I mean when I said earlier people unironically defend GW on these things?

How the feth does saying "I am happy at the options still available to me because they align with what I use" at all approaching "defending GW"? feth off you muppet.

Tbf, the lords are just a debacle, but then again i smelled bs when accursed weapons became a thing

 Rydria wrote:
Not having to pay for mark of slaanesh, as emperor’s children is super nice.

Indeed. With Noise Marines being "GOOD" and Excruciating Frequencies going to MW, along with Honor the Prince remaining in some fashion we'll be doing alright for Chaos at least.

chaos0xomega wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:

 clockworkchris9 wrote:
All right roller coaster ride of a morning, I will start woth the bad news

Chaos lord
-can only have bolt or plasma pistol

I am content, 9 times out of 10 I'm taking one of these two ranged weapons, rarely bother with anything else.

Good for you. Everyone else? Not so much. What happened to "basic loadout is plasma pistol + hammer, but has access to all melee weapons"? And where's the bolt pistol coming from? The Chaos Lord kit only includes a plasma pistol. What? We're allowed to kitbash a bolt pistol, but nothing else?

I assumed he was talking only about ranged options there and that the "but has access to all melee weapons" still applies, which is why I said I'm content. It lets me keep the builds I actually used. If its really a choice of bolt pistol or plasma pistol and I'm stuck with the hammer then I'm not content anymore - that would suck.

EviscerationPlague wrote:

See what I mean when I said earlier people unironically defend GW on these things?

How the feth does saying "I am happy at the options still available to me because they align with what I use" at all approaching "defending GW"? feth off you muppet.

Ah yes, the attitude of "I built my Lord the way GW wants so I don't care if there's no option for a Combi-Weapon". Not bring critical of the profile is defending it, whether you like it or not.

 clockworkchris9 wrote:
Check the B&C recap posts it has you covered

Does it mean that Noise Marines are always elite ? Noooooooooooooooo !

... I might need to field some cultist.

EviscerationPlague wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:

 clockworkchris9 wrote:
All right roller coaster ride of a morning, I will start woth the bad news

Chaos lord
-can only have bolt or plasma pistol

I am content, 9 times out of 10 I'm taking one of these two ranged weapons, rarely bother with anything else.

Good for you. Everyone else? Not so much. What happened to "basic loadout is plasma pistol + hammer, but has access to all melee weapons"? And where's the bolt pistol coming from? The Chaos Lord kit only includes a plasma pistol. What? We're allowed to kitbash a bolt pistol, but nothing else?

I assumed he was talking only about ranged options there and that the "but has access to all melee weapons" still applies, which is why I said I'm content. It lets me keep the builds I actually used. If its really a choice of bolt pistol or plasma pistol and I'm stuck with the hammer then I'm not content anymore - that would suck.

EviscerationPlague wrote:

See what I mean when I said earlier people unironically defend GW on these things?

How the feth does saying "I am happy at the options still available to me because they align with what I use" at all approaching "defending GW"? feth off you muppet.

Ah yes, the attitude of "I built my Lord the way GW wants so I don't care if there's no option for a Combi-Weapon". Not bring critical of the profile is defending it, whether you like it or not.

No, it isn't.