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 Laughing Man wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
We are. Last weekend I had three tables set up. Two were Open War, and one was Tempest of War.

Cool. So why does it matter that other people are playing the format they like?

Because, like it or not, there IS a default way to play.

Leo_the_Rat wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

EviscerationPlague wrote:
Maybe if the trait was doing D6 instead of D3 for attacks, it'd be a lot better. For THAT small a benefit though? Pass.

Eh, it's probably a balance thing. 1/3 chance of it not working feels a lot fairer than 1/6 chance. Especially when in the case of the D6 you can get 6 attacks. Then again, your opponent is probably always going to for 6 anyway, so in the end it doesn't really matter.

Come to think of it, why is it a Slaanesh trait? With the amount of mind games at play here it should really be a Tzeentch thing.

It doesn't say it's an EC warlord trait. It just has a picture over it of some pink marines so people are assuming that the rule is related to the picture. People should know by now that GW doesn't always match pictures to text.

Umm picture of warlord trait on section:

Emperor’s Children
The Emperor’s Children, on the other hand, are all about being seen. These sinister sensationalists are true maestros in the art of combat, each a dark reflection of their Primarch’s obsessive perfectionism… and while their skills are immaculate, the Unbound Arrogance of their greatest champions can get them in serious trouble. Are you ready to gamble for greatness?

It says Emperor's Children(slaanesh). It names the warlord trait(Unbound Arrogance) on "their greatest champpion".

Requires some serious mind twisting to assume that's not EC warlord trait...

EviscerationPlague wrote:

 Laughing Man wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
We are. Last weekend I had three tables set up. Two were Open War, and one was Tempest of War.

Cool. So why does it matter that other people are playing the format they like?

Because, like it or not, there IS a default way to play.

Nah, there's an artificial default based on the preferences of people in your local meta.

It kind of is the default though. Matched play is closer to how the game used to be played.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
It kind of is the default though. Matched play is closer to how the game used to be played.

The grand tournament mission pack isn't the only form of matched play.

Dudeface wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
It kind of is the default though. Matched play is closer to how the game used to be played.

The grand tournament mission pack isn't the only form of matched play.

Oh you mean tournaments specifically. Yeah I don't really follow tournies that much, so all of that is pretty alien to me.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
It kind of is the default though. Matched play is closer to how the game used to be played.

The grand tournament mission pack isn't the only form of matched play.

Oh you mean tournaments specifically. Yeah I don't really follow tournies that much, so all of that is pretty alien to me.

Yeah the thread has been chopped up and truncated by people replying out of context or chopping quotes out, but it was basically "who would pay 1cp for that?" "I won't because I don't play tournament rules" that kicked off the train of conversation.

And the tournament rules tends to get defaulted anyway because it's easier to have default game mode in flgs than for every game prediscuss everything. Show up with 2k army and play is lot easier and quicker.

The other issue is that if you and a majority of other people (forum users) play using the "full" published rules, while a small but vocal minority of people play using a mixture of the published rules, it makes effective communication about the game impossible.

E.g. Before starting a post about 40k on the forum you should state something like:
"I use the full published matched play rules with all errata and FAQs."
or
"I use the original 9th edition core rules, the following 4 FAQs A, B, C & D, 3 erratas D, E & F, I use some of the rules from Nachmund, don't use the rules from Nephilim, oh yeah and I also use house rule G."

Of course people don't want to post the second thing because they know other readers will most likely just ignore them.

The game is far too complicated to have a discussion and find out 5 posts in that the other person plays a different but similar game to you. It is hard enough discussing the "full" game because no single person (including me) fully knows and understands all the rules.

Cultist article

Torments seem pretty nice. Bit swingy on the attacks, and could do with an in-game WS buff. Nice that you can keep returning Mutants to the unit though.

This bonus also helps your ranged attacks – the new Chaos Cultists kit is loaded with brutal blades and cudgels, but your Cultists Mobs can still blast away with assorted firearms and special weapons. The Cultists of the Abyss models are armed for a firefight, and fit right in with the whole “masks and rags” aesthetic.

Seems to confirm momopose or single load out cultists.

Hmmm. Points matter etc, but I think the concern would be that they are potentially slow. Buffs may help there I guess - but not if you were going to bring multiple squads.

The mutants confirmed for me what I expected to happen, they simple can't really coexist with spawn. One or the other will always be slightly better whilst having a identical use case as far as I can see.

Eldenfirefly wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

 techsoldaten wrote:
The Black Legion Legion Trait differs from the one in the rumors.

The one in the rumors was exploding 5s for rapid fire and assault.

The one on Warcom are +1 to hit the closest unit and +1 to hit on the charge.

This may mean other rules are different from the ones circulated in the rumors.

You're confusing the leaked Legion trait with the leaked "super doctrine". The trait in the article is almost exactly the same as the leaked one (the only difference that I can see is that you no longer need to charge the closest unit to get the bonus). The exploding 5s was the leaked super doctrine. It's beginning to look like the playtesting changed very little.

I didn't look so closely into the leaks because at that time, no one knew how "valid" those leaks are, and these are subject to change upon the actual codex release anyway. But exploding 5s sound really tasty!

I think a lot will depend on whether armor of contempt is still a thing for the chaos space marines after their new codex release. If armor of contempt is still a thing, I think CSM will be a decent codex. Not OP like nids or the other top tier codices right now, but a balanced and fun one like knights.

For the time being, Armor of Contempt will be a thing no matter what, regardless of whether it is or isn't in the codex.
Currently the dataslate applies it to entire armies, so until that is revised again in a few months, armor of contempt simply exists (it isn't on any datasheet or special rules section of any book, currently).

Going by timelines (of both the codex and dataslate), it seems unlikely to actually be in the codex (as far as I can tell the dataslate and codex overlapped in development, or the dataslate is entirely after the codex, depending on how delayed the codex is from its original intended publication window).

It would also say weird things about the dataslate as a balancing/testing tool if they went ahead with AoC as a codex change before the dataslate really shook out. It'd be a little too obvious that their process isn't driven by data from games. (Though the custodes point changes already made that pretty obvious)

That's a BIG oof on the cultist kit not contains autoguns.

It's very hard to get excited about More Bloody Stratagems™.

And yeah, so the Cultist kit has one config for each model because the ranged weapons are in a different box? Well, at least they're not mono-pose, 'cause we know that's a myth!

 Lord Damocles wrote:
That's a BIG oof on the cultist kit not contains autoguns.

We already knew that. During the preview, no model armed with an autogun was shown and the articles never said they could be built with a different loadout.

Selfcontrol wrote:

 Lord Damocles wrote:
That's a BIG oof on the cultist kit not contains autoguns.

We already knew that. During the preview, no model armed with an autogun was shown and the articles never said they could be built with a different loadout.

Not showing an autogun isn't the same as not putting them in the box, assumptions were made they wouldn't be dumb enough to sell a core troops with half the options missing outright unless you buy a random bsf box that isn't a game legal unit.

Edit: in the stream they answered a question and explicitly called out cultists would still have ranged options, so it wasn't a clear answer either way.

Well looks like another edition of cultists, oh joy

Dudeface wrote:

Selfcontrol wrote:

 Lord Damocles wrote:
That's a BIG oof on the cultist kit not contains autoguns.

We already knew that. During the preview, no model armed with an autogun was shown and the articles never said they could be built with a different loadout.

Not showing an autogun isn't the same as not putting them in the box, assumptions were made they wouldn't be dumb enough to sell a core troops with half the options missing outright unless you buy a random bsf box that isn't a game legal unit.

Edit: in the stream they answered a question and explicitly called out cultists would still have ranged options, so it wasn't a clear answer either way.

You did a mistake there.

The Cultist unit (as in, the actuel datasheet) will have ranged options. But here, I'm talking about the models.

GW didn't lie when they said cultists will still have access to ranged options. However they didn't answer (imo on purpose) the true meaning of the question. Of course the question's true meaning was "Do these new models have options for autoguns ?". However it wasn't phrased like that and as a result, GW answer wasn't a lie

I already knew that there would be no autoguns for the new models. Warco always say during a preview if a new model has access to some options (sometimes they show an example with a picture, sometimes they simply write it without showing a picture, but they always say it).

They got you. Simple as that

So... cultists (from yesterdays article) get legion keywords, but don't get legion benefits, have their own keyword, don't have rifles unless you bought a _lot_ of the cultists of the abyss and we don't know yet if the traitor guard have the cultist keyword or a different one. Awesome. Even with previews this still feels like a mess.

Though it'd be weird if Cult Leader or Fanatic Zealotry didn't let AL or WB legions affect traitor guard, right? That isn't just me?
Especially alpha legion, who'd prioritize traitor guardsmen? Right?

 Lord Damocles wrote:
That's a BIG oof on the cultist kit not contains autoguns.

Seriously. If that's the case, these will be sitting on shelves. That would be such a stupid waste.

Voss wrote:
So... cultists (from yesterdays article) get legion keywords, but don't get legion benefits, have their own keyword, don't have rifles unless you bought a _lot_ of the cultists of the abyss and we don't know yet if the traitor guard have the cultist keyword or a different one. Awesome. Even with previews this still feels like a mess.

Though it'd be weird if Cult Leader or Fanatic Zealotry didn't let AL or WB legions affect traitor guard, right? That isn't just me?
Especially alpha legion, who'd prioritize traitor guardsmen? Right?

I genuinely hope that isn't the case. That would feel like such a gakky move.

Could use them as the basis for more mutants if you're inclined to go that way. The handful of monopose mutants simply aren't sufficient for a horde unit.

I was really excited from the back end of last year when the rumours dropped but this seems to be more and more of a cursed release (excuse the pun).

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Well, at least they're not mono-pose, 'cause we know that's a myth!

Is there a commission for posting variations of mono-pose complaint comments every so many hours? Because I wouldn't mind getting in on it.

 Lord Damocles wrote:
That's a BIG oof on the cultist kit not contains autoguns.

I wonder if its because we have traitor guard now?

Cultists of all flavors are really going to depend on points to see if they are worth it.

I like the Accursed kit, but the Torments look really bad to me. Wish they had gone the route of more of the Possessed look than whatever they decided to go with.

 GaroRobe wrote:

 Lord Damocles wrote:
That's a BIG oof on the cultist kit not contains autoguns.

I wonder if its because we have traitor guard now?

Likely plays into it, but sprue layout (and cost) is probably the bigger culprit.

I would suspect that during the planning stages, when they decided to actually do cultists AND mutants AND traitor guard that they decided to minimize some of the costs (so I won't be shocked if the cultists are a two-sprue kit)

 GaroRobe wrote:

 Lord Damocles wrote:
That's a BIG oof on the cultist kit not contains autoguns.

I wonder if its because we have traitor guard now?

Is it known how exactly they're supposed to function yet?

Like...is it a unit in the book or a keyword swap or what?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Voss wrote:

Likely plays into it, but sprue layout (and cost) is probably the bigger culprit.

I would suspect that during the planning stages, when they decided to actually do cultists AND mutants AND traitor guard that they decided to minimize some of the costs (so I won't be shocked if the cultists are a two-sprue kit)

Similarly, I wouldn't be shocked if the Abyss box gets rolled into the non-cursed Cultists box.