Chaos Space Marine codex rumours and news.

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**Jack Flask**

Not Online!!! wrote:
Where are the Traitorguardsmen?

This is purely speculation but I'm guessing the guy on BnC that leaked the releases last fall probably only got to glance at the unreleased models without any sort of context on the rules aspect of them.

It could be that Traitor Guardsmen were never going to be part of the CSM book and for now are just a KT faction. Hopefully it means that GW is either planning or open to the idea of a full Renegades and Heretics reboot army in the near future (especially considering Custodes, GSC, Squats, ect all got rebooted).

**ClockworkZion**

Selfcontrol wrote:
ClockworkZion wrote:
Selfcontrol wrote:
Full points leaks on Reddit.

The good :

- Legionnaries are only 19 ppm ;
- Cultists are 5 ppm ;
- Mutants are 6 ppm and Torments are 15 ppm (come in a mixed squad of 5-10 Mutants and 3-6 Torments) ;
- Terminators are 33 ppm ;
- Abaddon is 300 ppm ;
- Possessed and Warp Talons are 28/29 ppm (quality of the pictures are bad) ;
- Chaos Lord still has a bunch of options ;
- All Marks cost 15 points (flat).

The BAD :

- No jump pack for Chaos Lord and Sorcerers (not listed as an option and Daemon Prince still has the option for Wings) => Gadzilla on suicide watch ;
- No Mutilators. They are gone ;
- No datasheet for Traitor Guard from KT ;
- Land Raider, Predator etc are still overcosted just like DG and TS (no support at all from GW, as expected).

The mixed :

- Greater Possessed are also gone because, as we know, their profile has been absorbed by the new Possessed.

Based on some info I've seen: some.of this is wrong, some of this is ignorant".

They can't give specifics thanks to NDA.

It's from actual scans of the Codex.

Might want to double check then because Legionaires are 18ppm.

**EviscerationPlague**

Anyone else notice World Claimer is actually 150? Wonder if he got such a price hike because he's the only Lord with a decent movement speed LOL

**Shakalooloo**

Gah, can't even organise things alphabetically; how do Maulerfiends come AFTER Obliterators, GW?

**Memnoch**

EviscerationPlague wrote:
Anyone else notice World Claimer is actually 150? Wonder if he got such a price hike because he's the only Lord with a decent movement speed LOL

Its beyond my comprehension (and probably many others) why Lords cant have Wings/Jump Packs.

Not sure its worth even considering using Haarkans profile for a Jump Pack Lord.

**EviscerationPlague**

Memnoch wrote:
EviscerationPlague wrote:
Anyone else notice World Claimer is actually 150? Wonder if he got such a price hike because he's the only Lord with a decent movement speed LOL

Its beyond my comprehension (and probably many others) why Lords cant have Wings/Jump Packs.

Not sure its worth even considering using Haarkans profile for a Jump Pack Lord.

Well if they'll let us use his Spear in melee or give the claw extra damage I'd consider it a win overall.

**Selfcontrol**

ClockworkZion wrote:
Selfcontrol wrote:
ClockworkZion wrote:
Selfcontrol wrote:
Full points leaks on Reddit.

The good :

- Legionnaries are only 19 ppm ;
- Cultists are 5 ppm ;
- Mutants are 6 ppm and Torments are 15 ppm (come in a mixed squad of 5-10 Mutants and 3-6 Torments) ;
- Terminators are 33 ppm ;
- Abaddon is 300 ppm ;
- Possessed and Warp Talons are 28/29 ppm (quality of the pictures are bad) ;
- Chaos Lord still has a bunch of options ;
- All Marks cost 15 points (flat).

The BAD :

- No jump pack for Chaos Lord and Sorcerers (not listed as an option and Daemon Prince still has the option for Wings) => Gadzilla on suicide watch ;
- No Mutilators. They are gone ;
- No datasheet for Traitor Guard from KT ;
- Land Raider, Predator etc are still overcosted just like DG and TS (no support at all from GW, as expected).

The mixed :

- Greater Possessed are also gone because, as we know, their profile has been absorbed by the new Possessed.

Based on some info I've seen: some.of this is wrong, some of this is ignorant".

They can't give specifics thanks to NDA.

It's from actual scans of the Codex.

Might want to double check then because Legionaires are 18ppm.

Or maybe the mistake I made is because of a potato camera and it's hard to be sure if it's 18 ppm or 19.

But keep being passive agressive. You don't look like an asshat at all

**Dudeface**

So a warptalon is cheaper than a raptor? Very confused there.

**charles_the_dead_lizzard**

Point cost for legionaries look similar to loyalists tac marines which seems ok. 200pts for 20 wounds that can perform psychic actions and fit in a rhino seems like a fair deal. With Nurgle Mark and Icon I see there some real work for most opponents to get rid of them.

A bit sad that there are no points for chosen meele options, this means either that all are gone or that there are all free. Schrödingers Chosen I guess. Especially weird as other picks like bikes seem to keep most options.

I really wonder to see Huron Blackheart appear again, considering they removed the model. Maybe the claw in the RE really shows him? Or maybe this were points from an early Playtest version before he got the axe? I‘m curious about that, as Corsairs would be a go-to chapter for me

**Dudeface**

charles_the_dead_lizzard wrote:
Point cost for legionaries look similar to loyalists tac marines which seems ok. 200pts for 20 wounds that can perform psychic actions and fit in a rhino seems like a fair deal. With Nurgle Mark and Icon I see there some real work for most opponents to get rid of them.

A bit sad that there are no points for chosen meele options, this means either that all are gone or that there are all free. Schrödingers Chosen I guess. Especially weird as other picks like bikes seem to keep most options.

I really wonder to see Huron Blackheart appear again, considering they removed the model. Maybe the claw in the RE really shows him? Or maybe this were points from an early Playtest version before he got the axe? I‘m curious about that, as Corsairs would be a go-to chapter for me

He's on a range rotation, not removed completely (in theory) but it's not like them to cut special characters out overly if they've ever had model support.

**Sasori**

Dudeface wrote:
So a warptalon is cheaper than a raptor? Very confused there.

So, Warptalons look to be 28 PPM, Raptors are 21 ppm.

**Sabotage!**

No Traitor Guard I see. Thanks GW for saving me from starting an army and sticking to Kill Team!

**Dudeface**

Sasori wrote:
Dudeface wrote:
So a warptalon is cheaper than a raptor? Very confused there.

So, Warptalons look to be 28 PPM, Raptors are 21 ppm.

Ahh my rubbish eyesight then, thank you.

**ClockworkZion**

Selfcontrol wrote:

Or maybe the mistake I made is because of a potato camera and it's hard to be sure if it's 18 ppm or 19.

But keep being passive agressive. You don't look like an asshat at all

It wasn't being passive aggressive and I saw the same leaks on my phone after I shared information that there were errors, and then pointed out an error I saw, but go on and make this an ego thing instead of just owning the mistakes.

Now that I'm at home and can more easily format text:

- Legionnaries are only 19 ppm ; 18ppm
- Cultists are 5 ppm ;
- Mutants are 6 ppm and Torments are 15 ppm (come in a mixed squad of 5-10 Mutants and 3-6 Torments) ; you can only take more than 3 Torments if you have 10 Mutants.
- Terminators are 33 ppm ;
- Abaddon is 300 ppm ;
- Possessed and Warp Talons are 28/29 ppm (quality of the pictures are bad) ; 28ppm
- Chaos Lord still has a bunch of options ; [color=red]Listed options from the points page: plasma pistol, power axe, power fist, power maul, power sword, tainted chainaxe, thunderhammer[color]
- All Marks cost 15 points (flat).

**EviscerationPlague**

Now we just need proper rule leaks and scans.

**ClockworkZion**

Chosen (and part of the Possessed sheet):

Spoiler:

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Aaand someone posted an album of leaks:
https://imgur.com/a/1IFLTSw

**EviscerationPlague**

feth those dataslates are a goddamn mess

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh and of course Chosen can't have any Power Fists but the Champ in a regular squad can!

These "rules writers" are goddamn morons.

**ClockworkZion**

EviscerationPlague wrote:
feth those dataslates are a goddamn mess

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh and of course Chosen can't have any Power Fists but the Champ in a regular squad can!

These "rules writers" are goddamn morons.

It's GW doing their usual top down design. Make kit, write lore, then write rules. It's only starting to go backwards where they're taking out options that aren't in the kits.

**EviscerationPlague**

ClockworkZion wrote:
EviscerationPlague wrote:
feth those dataslates are a goddamn mess

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh and of course Chosen can't have any Power Fists but the Champ in a regular squad can!

These "rules writers" are goddamn morons.

It's GW doing their usual top down design. Make kit, write lore, then write rules. It's only starting to go backwards where they're taking out options that aren't in the kits.

I personally can't wait to see the brilliant defense for this mess from GW's greatest defenders.

**ClockworkZion**

EviscerationPlague wrote:
ClockworkZion wrote:
EviscerationPlague wrote:
feth those dataslates are a goddamn mess

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh and of course Chosen can't have any Power Fists but the Champ in a regular squad can!

These "rules writers" are goddamn morons.

It's GW doing their usual top down design. Make kit, write lore, then write rules. It's only starting to go backwards where they're taking out options that aren't in the kits.

I personally can't wait to see the brilliant defense for this mess from GW's greatest defenders.

I don't try to defend it, I just shrug and move on at this point.

On a different note: Daemon Blades and access to Melee Weapons for Aspiring Champions is a nice plus for me.

**Wha-Mu-077**

EviscerationPlague wrote:
ClockworkZion wrote:
EviscerationPlague wrote:
feth those dataslates are a goddamn mess

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh and of course Chosen can't have any Power Fists but the Champ in a regular squad can!

These "rules writers" are goddamn morons.

It's GW doing their usual top down design. Make kit, write lore, then write rules. It's only starting to go backwards where they're taking out options that aren't in the kits.

I personally can't wait to see the brilliant defense for this mess from GW's greatest defenders.

Bcuz it means you don't gotta convert if you want the best options y'knoooow. New players are just too dumb for that.

**H.B.M.C.**

It's every bit as inconsistent and convoluted as I'd feared.

Some units can get the full suite of melee weapons, whereas others can only get generic specialist melee weapons. And even then the Chosen options are still a nightmare.

And then other units don't have points costs for their weapon options, and basic things like Lightning Claws and Jump Packs just aren't there. And the Exalted Champion... no options. God damn it GW...

And the fething Traitor Guard aren't even in there. I thought they'd get the Corsair treatment - an Elite unit using all the specialist bits from the KT sprue, and then a regular Troops squad.

[EDIT]: Oh you've got to be kidding me...

"You cannot select the same Special Weapon or Heavy Weapon more than once per unit."

fething why??????????

**Sasori**

Tons of leaks coming out now. I expect the entire thing to be leaked soon.

**H.B.M.C.**

The Terminator entry makes me wince.

This is every bit as bad as we predicted...

**ClockworkZion**

H.B.M.C. wrote:
[EDIT]: Oh you've got to be kidding me...

"You cannot select the same Special Weapon or Heavy Weapon more than once per unit."

fething why??????????

Because Chaos is random?

Yeah, I got nothing.

**Wha-Mu-077**

Sasori wrote:
Tons of leaks coming out now. I expect the entire thing to be leaked soon.

Pirating PDFs of Codexes after release is so passe, I personally pirate them before they're even officially released.

Real talk, GW security might be made out of Swiss Cheese given all the constant leaks

**Abadabadoobaddon**

H.B.M.C. wrote:
Oh you've got to be kidding me...

"You cannot select the same Special Weapon or Heavy Weapon more than once per unit."

fething why??????????

Because fething feth Chaos that's why.

**ClockworkZion**

So looks like no new Chaos Daemon Prince until Slaves to Darkness drops this winter:

**Andykp**

In a vain attempt to be optimistic about traitor guard, could they be left out as the are getting their own codex, or rules in the new guard codex (traitor regimental rules?).

Doubt it but you never know.

**ClockworkZion**

Andykp wrote:
In a vain attempt to be optimistic about traitor guard, could they be left out as the are getting their own codex, or rules in the new guard codex (traitor regimental rules?).

Doubt it but you never know.

Could just be alternative cultists.