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 Rydria wrote:
anyone else impressed that for the first time ever Lucius the eternal is actually a legitimate threat to things in melee now ?

I think this is the first time ever he can actually soundly beat kharn in a 1 v 1

What does he do?

 JNAProductions wrote:

 Rydria wrote:
anyone else impressed that for the first time ever Lucius the eternal is actually a legitimate threat to things in melee now ?

I think this is the first time ever he can actually soundly beat kharn in a 1 v 1

What does he do?

He strikes at S5 D2, but most importantly he's got three rules:
1. He always strikes first
2. He can make a unit strike last (so basically with those two rules, you ain't getting a hit in)
3. He gets 3 extra attacks I think when fighting any unit with WS2-3+.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Well then I guess we hit peak "chaos" then.

I'd rather they nail a theme and make it make sense though.

Poor/inconsistent writing =/= Chaos.

No, but Chaos in 40k is often defined by always being inconsistent and in flux.

Do you actually think that they were trying to represent that with this mess? That they were trying to show that Chaos was "inconsistent" and "in flux" by writing unit (A) with one design philosophy and unit (B) with another? Arming both Terminators and Chosen with Accursed Weapons, but Terminators can swap theirs for power fists and for Chosen a power fist is just another Accursed Weapon? That's what they were doing when they did that? Or were they just being "inconsistent" and "in flux" themselves, because they've been screwing around with this book for so long and changing their minds so much in the process that we've gotten a ridiculous hodge-podge of rules that are just a collection of various "moments" in gw's changing design philosophies over a stretched out timeframe?

 JNAProductions wrote:

 Rydria wrote:
anyone else impressed that for the first time ever Lucius the eternal is actually a legitimate threat to things in melee now ?

I think this is the first time ever he can actually soundly beat kharn in a 1 v 1

What does he do?

Now strength 5 instead of 4
Now has a 4+ invul instead of 5+
always strikes first + makes person he's fighting always strike last
5 attacks which goes to 8 if he fights someone with 3+ or better weapon skill
sword is ap3 2 damage (3 damage if fighting 3+ or better weapon skill opponent)
If he's killed opponent takes d3 mortal wounds on a successful ld test or d6 on a failed one)

edit:

EviscerationPlague wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:

 Rydria wrote:
anyone else impressed that for the first time ever Lucius the eternal is actually a legitimate threat to things in melee now ?

I think this is the first time ever he can actually soundly beat kharn in a 1 v 1

What does he do?

He strikes at S5 D2, but most importantly he's got three rules:
1. He always strikes first
2. He can make a unit strike last (so basically with those two rules, you ain't getting a hit in)
3. He gets 3 extra attacks I think when fighting any unit with WS2-3+.

You beat me too it rip, though you forgot to mention his sword doing D3 damage vs ws2/3 opponents which I feel is a big deal means he 2 shots allot of characters instead of 3 shots them

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

 ArcaneHorror wrote:
I know I'm late, but I just now noticed that Possessed don't have core. Now that is something that bums me out, and just doesn't make sense.

No, it doesn't. And it begs the question: has anyone seen the rules for what can have Marks yet? Because the playtest rules said that only CORE can have Marks. But Possessed can have Icons. So are Possessed stuck with the Icon of Chaos Undivided, since they can't have the Mark of Nurgle, Khorne, Slaanesh, or Tzeentch?

Now that would just make this all the stupider.

On top of that, making Word Bearers have to play with possessed being core would be like ork players having boyz not be core.

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Well then I guess we hit peak "chaos" then.

I'd rather they nail a theme and make it make sense though.

Poor/inconsistent writing =/= Chaos.

No, but Chaos in 40k is often defined by always being inconsistent and in flux.

Do you actually think that they were trying to represent that with this mess? That they were trying to show that Chaos was "inconsistent" and "in flux" by writing unit (A) with one design philosophy and unit (B) with another? Arming both Terminators and Chosen with Accursed Weapons, but Terminators can swap theirs for power fists and for Chosen a power fist is just another Accursed Weapon? That's what they were doing when they did that? Or were they just being "inconsistent" and "in flux" themselves, because they've been screwing around with this book for so long and changing their minds so much in the process that we've gotten a ridiculous hodge-podge of rules that are just a collection of various "moments" in gw's changing design philosophies over a stretched out timeframe?

No, I was taking the piss out of the studio because inconsistent and in flux is not good game design.

Then please throw a or /s at the end of your posts when you do that. It would help cut down on pointless arguing.

 Rihgu wrote:
Whatever happened to that "leak" that the Night Lords had a relic jump pack?

Daemon Prince with wings only. Same with the claws of the black hunt, they'll only go on princes and terminator lords.

 ClockworkZion wrote:
No, but Chaos in 40k is often defined by always being inconsistent and in flux.

No it's not... ?

Where are you getting this claptrap? And how would "being in flux" equate to "gakky rules are inconsistently written"?

Yeah I'll echo Gad: Be clearer with your intent.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
No, but Chaos in 40k is often defined by always being inconsistent and in flux.

No it's not... ?

Where are you getting this claptrap? And how would "being in flux" equate to "gakky rules are inconsistently written"?

How did you ignore where I used the word "inconsistent" and went for "in flux" when talking about inconsistent rules?

For the same reason Gad did.

Look above your post.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
For the same reason Gad did.

Look above your post.

I saw it, but you quoted me saying inconsistent and then ignored that word to complain about me saying "in flux". To steal a D&D meme: you rolled a 1 on your reading check there.

You're nitpicking which specific words I replied to? Find something useful to do with your time. This ain't it.

Folks, can we please take it to DMs instead of cluttering this thread with your back and forth bickering.


Anyway,

It's looking to me that Comp-wise we are probably starting with Abbadon, a Dark apostle and a MoP. New Prayers are really, really good. Accursed weapons are not a bad statline either, AP -3 and 4 attacks each is pretty relevant once you get to the exploding 6's.

Please stop clogging up the thread with personal squabbles.

On topic, do we expect the new daemon prince kit to come out as part of the csm model releases, or wait for the sigmar chaos warrior wave?

Yikes!

They did Terminators dirty, Chosen as well.

Unfortunately, this is end of the road for me and 40K Chaos Marines. This book looks DOA.

I've put my stuff up for sale in our local group and will likely start work on a second Legion for HH, a ruleset that actually lets me have fun with loadouts of wargear...

 MajorWesJanson wrote:
Please stop clogging up the thread with personal squabbles.

On topic, do we expect the new daemon prince kit to come out as part of the csm model releases, or wait for the sigmar chaos warrior wave?

It leaked super early, I'm sure it won't be out until the StD release.

Yeah there were tons of Slaves to Darkness leaks. Super-sweet new Chosen, new Ogroid Thingamagigs, new DP and I think some new Knights? And then the other day our first look at the new new Chaos Warriors (as opposed to the new Chaos Warriors in the SC!) box.

As a result the 40k version of the Daemon Prince got shown off at the 5-day slow-mo preview.

I'm with Gad though, there's every chance the new Codex doesn't have an updated DP entry because the writers didn't even know the model was coming. GW's various business silos are counter-productive.

 Rydria wrote:
anyone else impressed that for the first time ever Lucius the eternal is actually a legitimate threat to things in melee now ?

I think this is the first time ever he can actually soundly beat kharn in a 1 v 1

Oh yeah! Lucius in a Dreadclaw dropping in with 9X Noise Marines and trigger Excruciating Frequencies, splitting fire into two units for the MW and to shutdown overwatch. Then charging in.

 Togusa wrote:
Yikes!

They did Terminators dirty, Chosen as well.

Unfortunately, this is end of the road for me and 40K Chaos Marines. This book looks DOA.

I've put my stuff up for sale in our local group and will likely start work on a second Legion for HH, a ruleset that actually lets me have fun with loadouts of wargear...

They also did new CSM legionaires dirty for those that bought into them in 8th because you could finally double up on Heavies...

needless to say 30 of my 61 new csm are now in ilegal squad combinations. NVM converted HQ's. 2 Chosen squads with all melta or flamer etc etc.

meanwhile the leutnant level HH sub commander for an average list has more equipment options than the whole CSM list combined with the recent decimation ontop of actual synergy and not just a mere reroll aura buffbot...

How 30k and 40k are produced by the same company is honestly beyond me.







Automatically Appended Next Post:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Yeah there were tons of Slaves to Darkness leaks. Super-sweet new Chosen, new Ogroid Thingamagigs, new DP and I think some new Knights? And then the other day our first look at the new new Chaos Warriors (as opposed to the new Chaos Warriors in the SC!) box.

As a result the 40k version of the Daemon Prince got shown off at the 5-day slow-mo preview.

I'm with Gad though, there's every chance the new Codex doesn't have an updated DP entry because the writers didn't even know the model was coming. GW's various business silos are counter-productive.

Counter-productive is a nice word for internal divison and politicking with a lack of communication and coordination.

Mutants (Mutant Rabble) will have objective secured rule?
Max. unit size? 20 models + 3 Accursed Torments?

 Xyxel wrote:
Mutants (Mutant Rabble) will have objective secured rule?
Max. unit size? 20 models + 3 Accursed Torments?

Idk about the first one, but it's 5-10 mutants and 3-6 Torments, with the caveat that you can only take more than 3 Torments if you have 10 mutants

Not Online!!! wrote:
How 30k and 40k are produced by the same company is honestly beyond me.

I'll go out on a limp here and say that the four guys who have been repeating the same mistakes for the last decade are as much of an issue as the company as a whole is.

Change those people and you have a good chance of fixing at least half of the problem.

 Jidmah wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
How 30k and 40k are produced by the same company is honestly beyond me.

I'll go out on a limp here and say that the four guys who have been repeating the same mistakes for the last decade are as much of an issue as the company as a whole is.

Change those people and you have a good chance of fixing at least half of the problem.

too late for me. personally. but i reckon you are right sadly... shame for 40k chaos...

the forces i like i can represent just fine in 30k and with the 30k ruleset.

My main army has actual support announced there and will get a full book later (which considering the absurd quality already present in the core for the legionrules i own and if i take that as a expectable quality level, then i will be more than content.)
and the core rules are actually worth their CHF.
NVM that orks etc shouldn't be difficult to port over aswell, which is good enough for me.
the only thing left out are my GSC and these i can run just as a daemoncult they are.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:

 Xyxel wrote:
Mutants (Mutant Rabble) will have objective secured rule?
Max. unit size? 20 models + 3 Accursed Torments?

Idk about the first one, but it's 5-10 mutants and 3-6 Torments, with the caveat that you can only take more than 3 Torments if you have 10 mutants

there is so much wrong with that unit entry...

Must have big muties mixed with small.

Random limitation on big muties.

Mutants /13 msu? oof..

No no. Its looks good (fluffwise) that You can mix different creatures in one unit.
It would be great if they could be lead by Chaos Marine, but no.

Still 10 mutants to soakup wounds then 6 Torments with 3 wounds and T4.
Feels to weak to survive one round of bolter fire.
Maybe if they could go up to 20 mutants or have a source of 5++ (Noctilith Crown)

 Xyxel wrote:
No no. Its looks good (fluffwise) that You can mix different creatures in one unit.

that is not my issue with it, that is the one good thing about it.

It would be great if they could be lead by Chaos Marine, but no.

not everything needs a PA leader, especially not chaos mortals. That said since they are in the csm dex for reasons unknown, the option should be there.

Still 10 mutants to soakup wounds then 6 Torments with 3 wounds and T4.

Mutants have always been descibed as angry lower class repressed horde... 10 twisted guardsmen are 10 twisted guardsmen, not a horde.

Feels to weak to survive one round of bolter fire.
Maybe if they could go up to 20 mutants or have a source of 5++ (Noctilith Crown)

or 3-15 big ones, or 5-25 small ones. or both in a squad with options for torment leader, or small leader.

 Rydria wrote:
anyone else impressed that for the first time ever Lucius the eternal is actually a legitimate threat to things in melee now ?

But at what cost?

 Togusa wrote:

I've put my stuff up for sale in our local group and will likely start work on a second Legion for HH, a ruleset that actually lets me have fun with loadouts of wargear...

Yeah! That'll show them! Give GW money!

What do people not understand here? You give them nothing. It is the only language GW understand.

 Grimtuff wrote:

 Togusa wrote:

I've put my stuff up for sale in our local group and will likely start work on a second Legion for HH, a ruleset that actually lets me have fun with loadouts of wargear...

Yeah! That'll show them! Give GW money!

What do people not understand here? You give them nothing. It is the only language GW understand.

...I don't care about 40K and haven't for quite some time. This was the nail, which convinced me to bail!

HH on the other hand, in our area has a nice group of mature people playing almost daily. A better rules set, better looking marine models, and a lot more options for those folks who prefer narrative play.

 Grimtuff wrote:

 Togusa wrote:

I've put my stuff up for sale in our local group and will likely start work on a second Legion for HH, a ruleset that actually lets me have fun with loadouts of wargear...

Yeah! That'll show them! Give GW money!

What do people not understand here? You give them nothing. It is the only language GW understand.

you give them for things you find decent, aka the decent 30k ruleset, and cut them where they are not doing decent, like the new CSM codex. That is far more productive.

Unless of course, as you alluded too, want to salt the very earth GW stands upon in notthingham.. which , fair enough i guess. It would be a shame for the IP though.