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 MinMax wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:
Thousand Sons would like a word.

Sure. Here's two:

Cabbalistic Rituals.

Heres another two: You're wrong.

 Gert wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:
Again, TSons would like a word, no build-a-warband rules there either. Orks also come to mind as not having build-a-warband features. Actually, IIRC no faction released before Genestealer Cults (?) had those types of rules.

Space Marines, Necrons, Drukhari, Sisters, Admech, and I'm pretty sure Death Guard got them. Not sure about Grey Knights, Orks or Custodes. But literally the first two armies to be released for 9th had custom subfaction rules.

Orks definitely don't have build-a-warband. Not sure about the others.

EviscerationPlague wrote:

The Cabal point system is the Super Doctrine though, no?

No. Cabal Points are just the army keyword purity bonus (sometimes referred to as an "army doctrine" or "normal doctrine" or just "army-wide special rule"). Super Doctrine refers specifically to subfaction-specifc army-wide special rules that are layered on top of that, in the way that the Imperial Fists superdoctrine provides an extra +1 damage to vehicles when the Devestator Combat Doctrine is active and ignores light cover + additional hits with bolters or the White Scars superdoctrine provides an extra +1 damage in melee when the Assault Combat Doctrine is active and charge on advance/fall back + ignore advance penalties on Assault weapons.

Similarly, superdoctrine refers to things like the Klan Kulturs in Ork armies layering on top of Waaagh!, or Chaos Knight Household Bonds and Traitoris Ambitions layering on top of Harbingers of Dread, Tyranid Hive Fleet Adaptations layering over Synaptic Imperative, Aeldari Craftworld Attributes layering over Strands of Fate, Harlequins Saedath Characterizations over Luck of the Laughing God, or Imperial Knights Houshold Traditions and Allegiance Oaths layering over Code Chivalric. So Cabbalistic Rituals/Cabal Points are the equivalent of the SM Combat Doctrines as an army wide keyword purity bonus, similar to Waaagh!, Harbingers of Dread, Synaptic Imperative, Strands of Fate, Luck of the Laughing God, and Code Chivalric, etc. but TSons do not have Cult-specific superdoctrines that layer on top of that the way SM superdoctrines (which are referred to in the SM Codex as Abilities and Chapter Tactics), Klan Kulturs, Chaos Knight Household Bombs/Traitoris Ambitions, Tyranid Hive Fleet Adaptations, Craftworld Attributes, Saedath Characterizations, or Imperial Knight Household Traditions/Allegiance Oaths do.

All that being said, on second thought the claim that CSM Legions don't get superdoctrines is incorrect though, as each Legion has a Legion Trait (i.e. superdoctrine):

https://www.goonhammer.com/codex-chaos-space-marines-9th-edition-review-part-2-the-traitor-legions/

Examples:

Alpha Legion
Legion Trait: Masters of Duplicity
Each time a ranged attack targets one of these units, if the attacker is more than 12” away, they get -1 to their to hit roll, or 18” away if the target has any models with 10+ wounds.
These units can declare a charge or perform an action after falling back. If they charge while doing an action, the action still fails.

Black Legion
Legion Trait: Black Crusaders
Ignore modifiers to combat attrition
Your units get +1 to hit if they’re either making a ranged attack at the closest eligible enemy unit or making a melee attack against a unit you charged this turn

It could be that by "superdoctrine" Voss was actually referring to what SM refer to as "Abilities" (i.e. the part that allows each Chapter to interact with the Combat Doctrines army wide rule in a different manner) and excluding the part that they refer to as "Chapter Tactics" which are the additional abilities which are similar to the CSM Legion Traits, but usually when people say "superdoctrine" they are referring to both together.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Gert wrote:

- Custodes where I could maybe understand a justification from the viewpoint of there aren't enough to manage more than the official Hosts.

Semi-incorrect. The build-a-warband option for Custodes is "Emperor's Chosen" which provides a strategem that allows them to steal the Martial Ka'tah abilities of another Shield Host. Its not quite the same level of flexible as the build-a-warband in other books, but gives them a lot of flexibility in how they play.

zamerion wrote:
So other week without the new toys, and maybe 2 weeks more (because paints are 2 weeks preorder)

Totally bizarre. I can't think of another time they've done this with a Codex release.

My guess is that there was a shipping delay with the models but they had the books ready to go and they pushed the books out since Nephlim basically spoiled the points and secondaries.

 ClockworkZion wrote:
My guess is that there was a shipping delay with the models but they had the books ready to go and they pushed the books out since Nephlim basically spoiled the points and secondaries.

Yeah, there had to have been some kind of production/shipping delay on the model side. GW would not have done this otherwise.

I'm glad they released the codex at least. Allows you play until the new stuff comes out. Honestly, the only models I want from the new release are Possessed anyway, so this isn't a huge deal to me.

 ClockworkZion wrote:
My guess is that there was a shipping delay with the models but they had the books ready to go and they pushed the books out since Nephlim basically spoiled the points and secondaries.

Or they're just giving the Heresy models some additional sales time without competition.

 Sersi wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
My guess is that there was a shipping delay with the models but they had the books ready to go and they pushed the books out since Nephlim basically spoiled the points and secondaries.

Or they're just giving the Heresy models some additional sales time without competition.

if you go down that rabbit hole, it is more like GW tries to push Heresy by getting all the 40k CSM players to switch over to that system by making playing CSM in 40k as hard as possible

@Whembly: named characters have their own WLT/relics that’s cannot be switched out, but the rest of the detachment rules shouldn’t be affected.

Does someone know, what a "Tainted Chainaxe" does? All the Streamers skipped over the Weapon Tables...

 Badger wrote:
Does someone know, what a "Tainted Chainaxe" does? All the Streamers skipped over the Weapon Tables...

+1 S, AP-1, 2D

chaos0xomega wrote:
No. Cabal Points are just the army keyword purity bonus (sometimes referred to as an "army doctrine" or "normal doctrine" or just "army-wide special rule"). Super Doctrine refers specifically to subfaction-specifc army-wide special rules that are layered on top of that, in the way that the Imperial Fists superdoctrine provides an extra +1 damage to vehicles when the Devestator Combat Doctrine is active and ignores light cover + additional hits with bolters or the White Scars superdoctrine provides an extra +1 damage in melee when the Assault Combat Doctrine is active and charge on advance/fall back + ignore advance penalties on Assault weapons.

Similarly, superdoctrine refers to things like the Klan Kulturs in Ork armies layering on top of Waaagh!, or Chaos Knight Household Bonds and Traitoris Ambitions layering on top of Harbingers of Dread, Tyranid Hive Fleet Adaptations layering over Synaptic Imperative, Aeldari Craftworld Attributes layering over Strands of Fate, Harlequins Saedath Characterizations over Luck of the Laughing God, or Imperial Knights Houshold Traditions and Allegiance Oaths layering over Code Chivalric. So Cabbalistic Rituals/Cabal Points are the equivalent of the SM Combat Doctrines as an army wide keyword purity bonus, similar to Waaagh!, Harbingers of Dread, Synaptic Imperative, Strands of Fate, Luck of the Laughing God, and Code Chivalric, etc. but TSons do not have Cult-specific superdoctrines that layer on top of that the way SM superdoctrines (which are referred to in the SM Codex as Abilities and Chapter Tactics), Klan Kulturs, Chaos Knight Household Bombs/Traitoris Ambitions, Tyranid Hive Fleet Adaptations, Craftworld Attributes, Saedath Characterizations, or Imperial Knight Household Traditions/Allegiance Oaths do.

This analysis of Super-doctrine is incorrect. Most Codexes generally have the following levels of customization available to them:

Detachment Abilities: Any ability based on being a certain type of detachment as defined in a Codex, such as a Adeptus Astartes detachment having the Company Command, Chapter Tactics, and Troops gain Objective Secured abilities.

Sub-Faction Abilities: An ability gained when all units an appropriate detachment have the same subfaction Keyword (with some exceptions). This is Chapter Tactics for Space Marines.

Faction Purity Abilities: An ability that exist on datasheets but can only be used if all units in your army have a specific faction keyword. This is Combat Doctrines for Space Marines.

Super-Doctrines (rarely): A few select sub-factions gain a bonus ability above their Faction Purity ability if all the units in the army have the same sub-faction keyword. Ultramarines gain Scions of Gilliman if all units, expect Unaligned units, in the army are Ultramarines.

The Space Marine Chapters have Super-Doctrines. I don't recall anyone else having them. The abilities can be slightly rearranged for the codexes that don't have allies available to them. For example, Orks have no Purity ability but have a much more complex detachment ability in Specialist Mobs.

SM & Necrons and maybe DG (kinda) get "Super Doctrines". GW clearly abandoned the idea afterwards. Its possible they thought about giving it to CSM per playtesting, and then have either held off, or abandoned it.

I.E. - SM get a chapter bonus to the base doctrines rule. Necron Dynasties get a modifier to Command Protocols. DG get a unique contagion via a warlord trait (which you could argue is just a warlord trait).
DE get nothing. Whether I'm running Black Heart or Cult of Cursed Blade doesn't impact Power from Pain or Blade Artists. With Orks being Goffs or Bad Moons doesn't impact your Waaagh or Speed Waaagh rule.

 alextroy wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:
No. Cabal Points are just the army keyword purity bonus (sometimes referred to as an "army doctrine" or "normal doctrine" or just "army-wide special rule"). Super Doctrine refers specifically to subfaction-specifc army-wide special rules that are layered on top of that, in the way that the Imperial Fists superdoctrine provides an extra +1 damage to vehicles when the Devestator Combat Doctrine is active and ignores light cover + additional hits with bolters or the White Scars superdoctrine provides an extra +1 damage in melee when the Assault Combat Doctrine is active and charge on advance/fall back + ignore advance penalties on Assault weapons.

Similarly, superdoctrine refers to things like the Klan Kulturs in Ork armies layering on top of Waaagh!, or Chaos Knight Household Bonds and Traitoris Ambitions layering on top of Harbingers of Dread, Tyranid Hive Fleet Adaptations layering over Synaptic Imperative, Aeldari Craftworld Attributes layering over Strands of Fate, Harlequins Saedath Characterizations over Luck of the Laughing God, or Imperial Knights Houshold Traditions and Allegiance Oaths layering over Code Chivalric. So Cabbalistic Rituals/Cabal Points are the equivalent of the SM Combat Doctrines as an army wide keyword purity bonus, similar to Waaagh!, Harbingers of Dread, Synaptic Imperative, Strands of Fate, Luck of the Laughing God, and Code Chivalric, etc. but TSons do not have Cult-specific superdoctrines that layer on top of that the way SM superdoctrines (which are referred to in the SM Codex as Abilities and Chapter Tactics), Klan Kulturs, Chaos Knight Household Bombs/Traitoris Ambitions, Tyranid Hive Fleet Adaptations, Craftworld Attributes, Saedath Characterizations, or Imperial Knight Household Traditions/Allegiance Oaths do.

This analysis of Super-doctrine is incorrect. Most Codexes generally have the following levels of customization available to them:

Detachment Abilities: Any ability based on being a certain type of detachment as defined in a Codex, such as a Adeptus Astartes detachment having the Company Command, Chapter Tactics, and Troops gain Objective Secured abilities.

Sub-Faction Abilities: An ability gained when all units an appropriate detachment have the same subfaction Keyword (with some exceptions). This is Chapter Tactics for Space Marines.

Faction Purity Abilities: An ability that exist on datasheets but can only be used if all units in your army have a specific faction keyword. This is Combat Doctrines for Space Marines.

Super-Doctrines (rarely): A few select sub-factions gain a bonus ability above their Faction Purity ability if all the units in the army have the same sub-faction keyword. Ultramarines gain Scions of Gilliman if all units, expect Unaligned units, in the army are Ultramarines.

The Space Marine Chapters have Super-Doctrines. I don't recall anyone else having them. The abilities can be slightly rearranged for the codexes that don't have allies available to them. For example, Orks have no Purity ability but have a much more complex detachment ability in Specialist Mobs.

If you read a bit further you would see where I addressed this:

It could be that by "superdoctrine" Voss was actually referring to what SM refer to as "Abilities" (i.e. the part that allows each Chapter to interact with the Combat Doctrines army wide rule in a different manner) and excluding the part that they refer to as "Chapter Tactics" which are the additional abilities which are similar to the CSM Legion Traits, but usually when people say "superdoctrine" they are referring to both together.

You might have your own highly-technical definition of superdoctrines, but for many people when they say superdoctrine in colloquial usage they mean it to generically refer to any and all "army-wide" sub-faction purity based abilities (i.e. anything that is dependent on all datasheets in an army sharing the same specific sub-faction keyword barring any exceptions given in the codex - which in terms of Space Marines includes both Chapter Tactics and "Abilities" like Scions of Guilliman, whereas in a faction like Orks refers only to Klan Kulturs). This contrasts to the increasingly disused term "army doctrine" (similarly derived from the Space Marine codex) which generically refers to the "army-wide" faction purity based ability. Hence why people often refer to codecies outside of Space Marines as having "superdoctrines", despite the fact that most don't have anything above and beyond the typical Detachment, Faction, and Sub-Faction abilities as you identified/defined them.

Presumably this is how Voss understands the term, as he indicated that he believed CSM to be the "first victim" as a codex without superdoctrines, yet by your strict definition of the term every army other than Space Marines is absent superdoctrines and has been for about 2 years - something which he would no doubt have been aware of. With that in mind its reasonable to conclude that he might have been using the colloquial definition of the term, rather than the technical.

edit: nvm

 Gert wrote:
Chaos Space Marines, again how. Utterly ridiculous especially since the Renegade Chapters aren't in the Codex but are in a supplement that can't be bought.

There have been rumours of a new Huron.

What if he's coming alongside a campaign book that has a "Hounds of Huron" Army of Renown, plus full rules rules for custom Renegade warbands (including how to make the missing Renegades from those rules).

Tyel wrote:
SM & Necrons and maybe DG (kinda) get "Super Doctrines". GW clearly abandoned the idea afterwards. Its possible they thought about giving it to CSM per playtesting, and then have either held off, or abandoned it.

I.E. - SM get a chapter bonus to the base doctrines rule. Necron Dynasties get a modifier to Command Protocols. DG get a unique contagion via a warlord trait (which you could argue is just a warlord trait).
DE get nothing. Whether I'm running Black Heart or Cult of Cursed Blade doesn't impact Power from Pain or Blade Artists. With Orks being Goffs or Bad Moons doesn't impact your Waaagh or Speed Waaagh rule.

What you refer to here as a super doctrine is part of the Necrons "Dynastic Code" ability, which is the equivalent of a Klan Kultur or any other sub-faction specific ability (unlike in Space Marines where the "Chapter Tactic" is separate from the Chapter "Ability") - the only difference is that one of the three clauses of the Dynastic Code allows for a more direct interaction with the army-wide faction purity bonus than what is typically seen in other factions. Likewise, as you indicated the DG "superdoctrine" is actually a warlord trait. Neither of these would technically meet the definiton of "superdoctrine" as alextroy defined them, though in the case of Necrons it would meet the colloquial usage of the term as I indicated. DG I would consider them to be WLTs rather than part of the superdoctrine, on the basis that you would typically get the superdoctrine ability regardless of what WLT you chose. Likewise, other factions have sub-faction based interactions with the army-wide faction purity bonus, such as TSons Cult of Magic offering a sorcerous arcana relic that reduces the cost of Cabbalistic Rituals - I wouldn't refer to that as a superdoctrine, as only one sub-faction has it and its only gained if you select that specific relic, unlike the "always on" abilities that subfactions in other armies gain.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Gert wrote:
Chaos Space Marines, again how. Utterly ridiculous especially since the Renegade Chapters aren't in the Codex but are in a supplement that can't be bought.

There have been rumours of a new Huron.

What if he's coming alongside a campaign book that has a "Hounds of Huron" Army of Renown, plus full rules rules for custom Renegade warbands (including how to make the missing Renegades from those rules).

Yea that's totally on MO for GW.

This looks promising, though the email is good as well:
https://wargamerdad.com/blog/chaos-space-marines-bring-back-the-jump-pack?fbclid=IwAR00X3uD_qAjwGnO5PUFgnnRxgfIwg0Iu_egYRGEQQeW8xUM89fPbACRqoQ

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Gert wrote:
Chaos Space Marines, again how. Utterly ridiculous especially since the Renegade Chapters aren't in the Codex but are in a supplement that can't be bought.

There have been rumours of a new Huron.

What if he's coming alongside a campaign book that has a "Hounds of Huron" Army of Renown, plus full rules rules for custom Renegade warbands (including how to make the missing Renegades from those rules).

Yea that's totally on MO for GW.

Yeah, I could see GW doing that. Why put all the rules into one book when you can split them into two and have people pay 100+ dollars for rules to play their faction of choice?

Also, typically what GW does when it comes to complaints of lore and other things is they just keep steamrolling the old fans and gaslighting the new fans until the only people playing the faction are the ones that like the way GW is taking the faction.

In a couple years, I'm sure someone will tell me to stop being such a negative nancy about the Chaos Marines codex when GW removes bikers, raptors, helbrutes, predators, vindicators, rhinos, and land raiders, and other things from the codex entirely and replaces them with more cultists, dinobots, and footslogging mono-use character models that fluctuate between broken and useless depending on how the next "balance dataslate" rolls.

That's how they've treated Space Marines after all. Screw anyone that likes firstborn, that model range is simply going to age over the next 20 years until it's finally shoved into Legends and forgotten about in favor of Secundus Marines, bigger Primaris Marines all equipped with Magna Bolt Auto Rifles.

This thread is hilarious, what a bunch of cry babies. I'm excited for the new codex and seems most others are too.

Rogerio134134 wrote:
This thread is hilarious, what a bunch of cry babies. I'm excited for the new codex and seems most others are too.

By "most others" do you mean the reviewers who only get their early releases if GW likes them and their content?

Because I went into an actual GW Store recently, and while the employees talked nicely about the upcoming CSM... The other people in the store either didn't know enough to comment, or were pretty peeved about it.

Rogerio134134 wrote:
This thread is hilarious, what a bunch of cry babies. I'm excited for the new codex and seems most others are too.

Great output ! Ever thought of being a political columnist ?

Rogerio134134 wrote:
This thread is hilarious, what a bunch of cry babies. I'm excited for the new codex and seems most others are too.

People who get stuff for free to review don't tend to take negative viewpoints because then they stop getting stuff for free.
TBH I'm not bothered anymore. Not because I think the Codex is actually good, far from it, I just don't care about 40k anymore. HH has been my main for ages now and the new ruleset is absolute gold.

 ArcaneHorror wrote:
This looks promising, though the email is good as well:
https://wargamerdad.com/blog/chaos-space-marines-bring-back-the-jump-pack?fbclid=IwAR00X3uD_qAjwGnO5PUFgnnRxgfIwg0Iu_egYRGEQQeW8xUM89fPbACRqoQ

I can't get this to load at all.

Rogerio134134 wrote:
This thread is hilarious, what a bunch of cry babies.

And you'd be totally fine with one of your fav factions being gutted? Again?

 ArcaneHorror wrote:
This looks promising, though the email is good as well:
https://wargamerdad.com/blog/chaos-space-marines-bring-back-the-jump-pack?fbclid=IwAR00X3uD_qAjwGnO5PUFgnnRxgfIwg0Iu_egYRGEQQeW8xUM89fPbACRqoQ

This is good. I signed, and intend to send my own email detailing my own concerns, the mass removal of lightning claws being the primary one behind the loss of Jump Lords and Sorcerers. I encourage everyone else with these concerns to do the same. If we want this fixed, we need to let our voices be heard. It worked for Eldar players with their Autarch, and for Death Guard and Thousand Sons players with their access to the Chaos units in the Imperial Armour Compendium. It can work for us here, as well.

Just complaining on Dakka isn't going to accomplish anything folks. If you want this fixed, let gw know about it.

I think the codex is going to be just fine functionally. There are some very good aspects to it, but I feel it lacks a lot of creativity and design. For my Iton Warriors, it’s a significant improvement and I’m glad I no longer have to carry codex SM, Faith and Fury, shadowspear booklet, and Vigilus Ablaze to keep track of my units. A lot what I use got better, and it looks like daemon engines will be greatly improved.
I had a fallen jump lord for the army, but thematically it doesn’t hurt to lose him and he has already been retasked to my Deathwatch.
If I played NL I would be far more bothered about not having access to a jump lord, that’s just ridiculous.
I think for what I play and how I play, the codex will be a significant improvement, but I can see how others will not share that viewpoint. The codex is going to work great for some, but poorly for many others and that’s a shame.

 ArcaneHorror wrote:
https://wargamerdad.com/blog/chaos-space-marines-bring-back-the-jump-pack

I like how the petition is ignorant (or pretends to not know) it's not a chaos lord. It's a raptor lord. Completely different animal (as evidenced by big fat zero melee lord models, even NL or WE, having one). It's like whining necron lords don't have access to jump packs then pointing to destroyer lord model, funnily enough very similar distinction. But who cares about lore when there is some WAAAC to be done, am I rite?

If GW should do anything it's at best making Raptor Cult army of renown, with raptor lord option, but alas, you can't minmax wombo combo that so I am strangely sure CSM crowd will pretend that obvious lore friendly option doesn't exist in their demands...

drbored wrote:
That's how they've treated Space Marines after all. Screw anyone that likes firstborn, that model range is simply going to age over the next 20 years until it's finally shoved into Legends and forgotten about in favor of Secundus Marines, bigger Primaris Marines all equipped with Magna Bolt Auto Rifles.

I am not sure saying THEY ARE GASLIGHTING ME BECAUSE GW WILL SQUAT MY UGLY MODELS IN 21 YEARS!!1!one! is as big brain take as you think it is. Though at least it's improvement over constant 4chan screeching they will be squatted next week from what, last five years?

But yeah, there was absolutely no release of any Adeptus Uglysquattus (except with slightly better anatomy) this week, nor was there absolutely massive one two weeks prior. Not to mention release before that. They are getting squatted and no mountain of evidence to the contrary will say otherwise

 Irbis wrote:
it's not a chaos lord. It's a raptor lord.

Find me the entry for a Raptor Lord in any previous Chaos Codex. You're making up a definition where none exists.

 Irbis wrote:
It's like whining necron lords don't have access to jump packs then pointing to destroyer lord model, funnily enough very similar distinction.

Those two have nothing to do with one another. How do you draw these "connections"?

 Irbis wrote:
But who cares about lore when there is some WAAAC to be done, am I rite?

Literally who said anything about WAAC, other than you?

You're so unfathomably... odd...

 Irbis wrote:

 ArcaneHorror wrote:
https://wargamerdad.com/blog/chaos-space-marines-bring-back-the-jump-pack

I like how the petition is ignorant (or pretends to not know) it's not a chaos lord. It's a raptor lord. Completely different animal (as evidenced by big fat zero melee lord models, even NL or WE, having one). It's like whining necron lords don't have access to jump packs then pointing to destroyer lord model, funnily enough very similar distinction. But who cares about lore when there is some WAAAC to be done, am I rite?

If GW should do anything it's at best making Raptor Cult army of renown, with raptor lord option, but alas, you can't minmax wombo combo that so I am strangely sure CSM crowd will pretend that obvious lore friendly option doesn't exist in their demands...

drbored wrote:
That's how they've treated Space Marines after all. Screw anyone that likes firstborn, that model range is simply going to age over the next 20 years until it's finally shoved into Legends and forgotten about in favor of Secundus Marines, bigger Primaris Marines all equipped with Magna Bolt Auto Rifles.

I am not sure saying THEY ARE GASLIGHTING ME BECAUSE GW WILL SQUAT MY UGLY MODELS IN 21 YEARS!!1!one! is as big brain take as you think it is. Though at least it's improvement over constant 4chan screeching they will be squatted next week from what, last five years?

But yeah, there was absolutely no release of any Adeptus Uglysquattus (except with slightly better anatomy) this week, nor was there absolutely massive one two weeks prior. Not to mention release before that. They are getting squatted and no mountain of evidence to the contrary will say otherwise

Fine, name how a Jump Pack Lord isn't fluffy.

I mean, GW, the designers, sellers, and IP holders call it a “Chaos Lord with Jump Pack”, so who should I believe now? Them, or some rando on the Internet who takes his kayfabe a bit too seriously?

 Irbis wrote:

 ArcaneHorror wrote:
https://wargamerdad.com/blog/chaos-space-marines-bring-back-the-jump-pack

I like how the petition is ignorant (or pretends to not know) it's not a chaos lord. It's a raptor lord. Completely different animal (as evidenced by big fat zero melee lord models, even NL or WE, having one). It's like whining necron lords don't have access to jump packs then pointing to destroyer lord model, funnily enough very similar distinction. But who cares about lore when there is some WAAAC to be done, am I rite?

If GW should do anything it's at best making Raptor Cult army of renown, with raptor lord option, but alas, you can't minmax wombo combo that so I am strangely sure CSM crowd will pretend that obvious lore friendly option doesn't exist in their demands...

Silly Irbis, Raptor Lords don't exist. Raptors can't have Lightning Claws you WAAC silly person.
They need to be Warp Talon Lords.