Chaos Space Marine codex rumours and news.

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**Not Online!!!**

bullyboy wrote:
Having spent yesterday going through the book, I’m going against the tide here, I really like this book.
I feel there are still plenty of options available to customize your force outside of the few glaring errors (jump pack lord, terminator claws etc).

Sorry i call bs, when the baseline legionaires can't even double up on a special or heavy to do a job anymore then that is NOT customizable but just stupid.

I feel there are many units I actually want to use but I’m having to make sacrifices. For my Iron Warriors it’s head and shoulders above the previous book(s). I have so many HQs I want to try, but just don’t have the slots to make it happen. The only new thing I’ll get is the possessed, not feeling the mutants at al. I’m looking forward to getting my vindicators back on the table, plus building a land raider for my terminators.
This may not be the book for many, but it is far from a dumpster fire.

see above, i own 50 of the new CSM sculpts, even more if you count my chosen conversions, all of which are now illegal set ups and no i ain't switching things out for squads that were purposely specialised to do something.

**Samus666**

Manfred von Drakken wrote:
Us3Less wrote:
I saw a rumor at some point that daemons could be taken without breaking traits. Similar to guard in GSC. Was this just a false rumor? I've not seen any codex previews mention this. Kinda lame that they then would again split CSM and Daemons with all the restrictions that 9th I bringing to souping from different books. I really liked how 8th allowed for mixed armies.

If true, this would show up in the Demons codex, much like Knights.

Wait... we've lost all mechanics for using demons too? Can anyone confirm this?

**BrianDavion**

H.B.M.C. wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
so looking at my codex (I have it) anyone else feel like this feels like a "codex written for next edition"?
That's why I think there are no "super-doctrines", as those will be going away in the new edition.

thats my guess too. also the codex being written in a way so as to make supplments unnesscary had me wondering if they'd do that for SMs too

**Scottywan82**

Samus666 wrote:
Besides the obvious issue with some of our existing models being invalidated, does anyone else just hate the trend towards more limited options and customisation in general? I have plans for an army from every legion, but I feel like future projects will be less fun with fewer options.

Maybe it's the rpg player in me. I want to be able to customise and theme every unit. I want to build armies that are really unique to me (especially when building Chaos Space Marine forces). For me, this is core to the narrative player experience, and matters far more than game balance or streamlined play.

Maybe this is more of a priority for Chaos platers than most others. Maybe it's just me. I dunno, it just feels like GW are gearing the rules further and further away from the way I like to play. Arguments can be made for using house rules and I probably will be doing so. But I'm getting a bit tired of having to write my own rules to play a game where narrative and army character are catered for. There are now many areas if the game where there are different rules for competitive play, so what I would really like them to do is start releasing codexes full to bursting with options and wargear choices and flavour, but with some of those options off limits to those who prioritise balance over personalising their armies. Surely this would please everyone.

Absolutely. It just makes the universe so much smaller. I feel similarly about the vague-ness of AoS. It's intended to expand individual customizationoptions, but has the effect of limiting them instead.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Voss wrote:

It feels like a compromise solution, but I have no idea how you get there with any sort of actual process.
And even then, that's something you decide for the entire edition in a design document in at the start of the edition. I can't overstate that enough. Plan. Ahead. For. Consistency.

If they did, so much would be solved for them.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

H.B.M.C. wrote:
drbored wrote:
As for the AoS-ification of 40k.. honestly? Bring it on. Simplify this mess.
Yeah I totally want weapons that have a set To Wound value regardless of target!

You know, I had real misgivings about that at first, but the more I've played AoS, the less I feel like it's been a problem or a disadvantage for either player. In many ways, it reduces the variables that GW struggles to balance currently and they still have a number of methods to make tougher units feel tougher in the game. Obviously it's subjective, but I have definitely been turned around on it, and I started out very skeptical.

**BorderCountess**

Samus666 wrote:
Manfred von Drakken wrote:
Us3Less wrote:
I saw a rumor at some point that daemons could be taken without breaking traits. Similar to guard in GSC. Was this just a false rumor? I've not seen any codex previews mention this. Kinda lame that they then would again split CSM and Daemons with all the restrictions that 9th I bringing to souping from different books. I really liked how 8th allowed for mixed armies.

If true, this would show up in the Demons codex, much like Knights.

Wait... we've lost all mechanics for using demons too? Can anyone confirm this?

Demon summoning is still a thing, because those rules are still in the current Demons Codex. There was a rumor that CSM would be able to take a certain amount of Demons without breaking their purity bonus (much like Knights), but that would most likely be in the next Demons book rather than a CSM rule.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Scottywan82 wrote:

You know, I had real misgivings about that at first, but the more I've played AoS, the less I feel like it's been a problem or a disadvantage for either player. In many ways, it reduces the variables that GW struggles to balance currently and they still have a number of methods to make tougher units feel tougher in the game. Obviously it's subjective, but I have definitely been turned around on it, and I started out very skeptical.

Call me crazy, but if I'm a regular human with a sword, there should be pretty significant difference between trying to wound a goblin and trying to would a dragon.

**Kinetochore**

I just dont get what they have against Chaos Spacemarines getting lightning claws?

They can take every other power weapon why not them?

And yes I am salty cos all my noisemarine, biker and 1/2 my legionnaire champions are equipped with them...

**Scottywan82**

Kinetochore wrote:
I just dont get what they have against Chaos Spacemarines getting lightning claws?

They can take every other power weapon why not them?

And yes I am salty cos all my noisemarine, biker and 1/2 my legionnaire champions are equipped with them...

Chaosistency.

**Kinetochore**

They could've at least put "accursed weapons" on the melee list so you can run them as those

**bullyboy**

Can’t wait for the usual suspects to lose their minds again when they see that this week there are classic made to order sorcerers going on sale with weapons that cannot be taken on the data sheet.

**Geifer**

GW really missed a chance there to put the jump pack Lord up for made to order.

**Dudeface**

bullyboy wrote:
Can’t wait for the usual suspects to lose their minds again when they see that this week there are classic made to order sorcerers going on sale with weapons that cannot be taken on the data sheet.

I'm tempted to get one for the nostalgia hit, literally nobody will dispute that axe being a "staff" for the sakes of a game.

**GiToRaZor**

bullyboy wrote:
Can’t wait for the usual suspects to lose their minds again when they see that this week there are classic made to order sorcerers going on sale with weapons that cannot be taken on the data sheet.

TBH, looking at the latest releases, I start to think that GW thinks their target audiance of CSM players is a bunch of masochists, that buy more models the more they are being mistreated. First they release a Codex with wonky rules and no new models along with it for the what....first time in years it must be. And that despite the fact that they showed previews of multiple sets just months ago. Not even a half hearted apology of, sorry production delays (not to speak of the soon to be invalid Demon Prince rules). And not one week later they put models out of hibernation that can not even be played by their own wonky rules, just to raise an even bigger middle finger to the CSM players. That is really putting insult to injury. Poor guys, I feel sorry for you. But then, maybe GW is right and you secretly enjoy it?

**KidCthulhu**

The more I read this thread, the more I want to go back to 2nd Edition...

**StarHunter25**

The made to order stuff is as infuriating as it is funny. They offer a couple sorceror models with illegal options as a middle finger. Then someone must've remembered they stopped selling the exalted champion, which is the model they based their "No kit no rules" on like 3 years ago, so some intern was scrambled to find the old molds for it to get them going asap. So unless a new CSM player gets ol Vrash Tattersoul in the next few weeks, there will be no "official model" for it.

**GaroRobe**

Probably for the best. Vrosh is in the scale of DV chosen and is going to be minuscule next to the current csm. Wonder if he will get a bigger base

**StarHunter25**

Doesn't look like it. IIRC he has his own fancy 28mm base, so he's gonna be super out of place.

**Scottywan82**

KidCthulhu wrote:
The more I read this thread, the more I want to go back to 2nd Edition...

This is the path of wisdom.

Next hilarious thing I spotted while reading the Chosen entry: Apparently they get boltguns, bolt pistols, and chainswords, unlike Legionaries. And they keep their boltguns if they swap for plasma pistols. Same idea with the combi-weapons, they keep their bolt pistols. So extra shooting from them, I guess? I wonder how many people even model a boltgun onto a model if it has a plasma pistol?

And is there a rule I am missing somewhere that the champions cannot have the icon? Because I don't see anywhere that says they can't.

**Santtu**

GW doesn't remember their own releases. The article says that the Exalted Champion was "first seen back in the classic Dark Vengeance boxed set", but it was actually an Aspiring Champion released with the 6th edition Codex.

**H.B.M.C.**

Models with illegal weapons/weapons that have no rules in the Codex and a model they forgot they didn't sell yet changed an entire unit to match.

Sounds about right...

**MajorWesJanson**

Santtu wrote:
GW doesn't remember their own releases. The article says that the Exalted Champion was "first seen back in the classic Dark Vengeance boxed set", but it was actually an Aspiring Champion released with the 6th edition Codex.

They used Dark Vengeance as a starter twice. Once it came with Vrosh, the other time with the DA chaplain. I cant recall which was first though.

**H.B.M.C.**

DA Chaplain was first, IIRC.

**NinthMusketeer**

Manfred von Drakken wrote:
Scottywan82 wrote:

You know, I had real misgivings about that at first, but the more I've played AoS, the less I feel like it's been a problem or a disadvantage for either player. In many ways, it reduces the variables that GW struggles to balance currently and they still have a number of methods to make tougher units feel tougher in the game. Obviously it's subjective, but I have definitely been turned around on it, and I started out very skeptical.

Call me crazy, but if I'm a regular human with a sword, there should be pretty significant difference between trying to wound a goblin and trying to would a dragon.

Do you level the same criticism against 40k? After all a regular human with a gun should have a pretty significant difference between hitting a tank and hitting a grot.

**Umbros**

Santtu wrote:
GW doesn't remember their own releases. The article says that the Exalted Champion was "first seen back in the classic Dark Vengeance boxed set", but it was actually an Aspiring Champion released with the 6th edition Codex.

Glad you said that, thought I was crazy

**BorderCountess**

NinthMusketeer wrote:
Manfred von Drakken wrote:
Scottywan82 wrote:

You know, I had real misgivings about that at first, but the more I've played AoS, the less I feel like it's been a problem or a disadvantage for either player. In many ways, it reduces the variables that GW struggles to balance currently and they still have a number of methods to make tougher units feel tougher in the game. Obviously it's subjective, but I have definitely been turned around on it, and I started out very skeptical.

Call me crazy, but if I'm a regular human with a sword, there should be pretty significant difference between trying to wound a goblin and trying to would a dragon.
Do you level the same criticism against 40k? After all a regular human with a gun should have a pretty significant difference between hitting a tank and hitting a grot.

I'm gonna stretch here and argue that I'm not shooting at a grot but rather a whole bunch of them, which would increase my chances.

But yes, I do miss WHFB having the Large Target rule to take that into account.

**NinthMusketeer**

Manfred von Drakken wrote:
NinthMusketeer wrote:
Manfred von Drakken wrote:
Scottywan82 wrote:

You know, I had real misgivings about that at first, but the more I've played AoS, the less I feel like it's been a problem or a disadvantage for either player. In many ways, it reduces the variables that GW struggles to balance currently and they still have a number of methods to make tougher units feel tougher in the game. Obviously it's subjective, but I have definitely been turned around on it, and I started out very skeptical.

Call me crazy, but if I'm a regular human with a sword, there should be pretty significant difference between trying to wound a goblin and trying to would a dragon.
Do you level the same criticism against 40k? After all a regular human with a gun should have a pretty significant difference between hitting a tank and hitting a grot.

I'm gonna stretch here and argue that I'm not shooting at a grot but rather a whole bunch of them, which would increase my chances.

But yes, I do miss WHFB having the Large Target rule to take that into account.

Game doesn't distinguish between a grot or 10 grots or 100. And even then, is it the same difficulty to hit, say, a dozen grots rather than a titan?

It is an entirely valid criticism to make, I just find it worth pointing out that 40k is not so far off AoS in that respect; people are just used to the hit roll being fixed and so they don't think about it. AoS toughness is factored into wounds/FnP anyways, both of which show up in FAR more abundance.

**drbored**

Give me a break...

Some classic Sorcerers, that's neat, good for people that liked those sculpts.

No new Chaos Models, but the super-limited-loadout Exalted Champion is... Made-to-Order.

My shop also got a woefully small number of the Chaos Marine codex in stock compared to previous releases. Manager says its due to the paper shortage, but I honestly wonder if GW thought that they really might not sell all that many.

**ArcaneHorror**

So, when are the new models coming out?

**H.B.M.C.**

That's the big question. I'd've thought that they'd be this week - it's not like there are many new releases for CSM - but I guess not.

Weirdly I'm more interesting in the Slaves to Darkness release. I don't even play AoS, but I want that new DP and a box of those awesome looking Chosen.

**ArcaneHorror**

H.B.M.C. wrote:
That's the big question. I'd've thought that they'd be this week - it's not like there are many new releases for CSM - but I guess not.

Weirdly I'm more interesting in the Slaves to Darkness release. I don't even play AoS, but I want that new DP and a box of those awesome looking Chosen.

Yeah, it's really weird that they haven't been released yet, despite being the stand-out models for the new edition. And yeah, the Chosen look amazing, and especially the daemon prince. When exactly will the Slaves to Darkness book be released?

**drbored**

ArcaneHorror wrote:
H.B.M.C. wrote:
That's the big question. I'd've thought that they'd be this week - it's not like there are many new releases for CSM - but I guess not.

Weirdly I'm more interesting in the Slaves to Darkness release. I don't even play AoS, but I want that new DP and a box of those awesome looking Chosen.

Yeah, it's really weird that they haven't been released yet, despite being the stand-out models for the new edition. And yeah, the Chosen look amazing, and especially the daemon prince. When exactly will the Slaves to Darkness book be released?

The slaves to darkness are slated for the winter of this year, so not for another 4 months at least.

As for the rest of the chaos marine models, who knows? It's not like we're the favorite faction, clearly. Much more important to show off ancient Skaven models.