Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny Official Trailer

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**Mad Doc Grotsnik**

Vulcan wrote:
Rumor has it that if Indy 5 doesn't do at least $900 million, it's Kennedy's head on a platter for Iger.

As a result, I'm torn. I want it to be good, or at least decent, because it's Indy. But the chance to see KK sent packing in disgrace after destroying Star Wars is also quite tempting...

Source for that rumour?

Only the interwebs has been insistent it’s been her last chance saloon since The Force Awakens. Yet…..she’s still in her role.

**H.B.M.C.**

KK is probably on her way out anyway, but they won't do it 'til after Indy 5 is out otherwise the only news stories around that film will be her leaving the company.

Also:

"It's called capitalism!"

I don't think that word means what you think it means.

**Turnip Jedi**

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Vulcan wrote:
Rumor has it that if Indy 5 doesn't do at least $900 million, it's Kennedy's head on a platter for Iger.

As a result, I'm torn. I want it to be good, or at least decent, because it's Indy. But the chance to see KK sent packing in disgrace after destroying Star Wars is also quite tempting...

Source for that rumour?

Only the interwebs has been insistent it’s been her last chance saloon since The Force Awakens. Yet…..she’s still in her role.

Whilst its a bit tin foil theory I think Disney overall is in a strange place at the moment, the success of the MCU gave them a bit of wiggle room as regards the moneys, heck even the Germageddon was handy to get D+ off the ground despite the massive losses the closing of the parks must have caused, but now new Old Bob has been drafted to get the money taps flowing as investors demand and to be seen to be taking steps to course correct means Granny Kathleen is in an awkward place, I suspect if things dont pick up she'd "retire" rather than get booted.

**Vulcan**

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Vulcan wrote:
Rumor has it that if Indy 5 doesn't do at least $900 million, it's Kennedy's head on a platter for Iger.

As a result, I'm torn. I want it to be good, or at least decent, because it's Indy. But the chance to see KK sent packing in disgrace after destroying Star Wars is also quite tempting...

Source for that rumour?

Only the interwebs has been insistent it’s been her last chance saloon since The Force Awakens. Yet…..she’s still in her role.

I'm getting it primarily from Overlord DVD on YouTube; he's claiming he has contacts within Lucasfilm feeding him information.

Thus, I say 'rumor'. Although it's worth noting he's been right more often than he's been wrong.

**Azreal13**

She's almost 70, and while I've never enjoyed making money at the rate I'm sure she does, I'm sure there still comes a point where that ticking clock gets louder and louder and the desire to actually spend some time enjoying it gets stronger.

Fact of the matter is she's almost certainly standing down soon one way or another, people will ascribe motive to it as they see fit and some of them will be correct.

**Mad Doc Grotsnik**

Apparently, she’s the third highest grossing Producer, behind only Spielberg and Fiege.

**Herzlos**

Vulcan wrote:
Leaks out of Disney say about four or five different endings were filmed. The one KK is pushing HARD has girl Indy go back in time and somehow replaces Harrison Ford Indy. The movie then ends with flashbacks of the previous four movies with girl Indy doing it even better.

Can you imagine the outrage? It'd be incredible so I doubt it'd happen.

I'm looking forward to this, the Indiana Jones films have always been pretty garbage but totally enjoyable. Even the Crystal Skull one if you suspend disbelief hard enough and ignore the plot holes.

**AduroT**

Herzlos wrote:
Vulcan wrote:
Leaks out of Disney say about four or five different endings were filmed. The one KK is pushing HARD has girl Indy go back in time and somehow replaces Harrison Ford Indy. The movie then ends with flashbacks of the previous four movies with girl Indy doing it even better.

Can you imagine the outrage? It'd be incredible so I doubt it'd happen.

I'm looking forward to this, the Indiana Jones films have always been pretty garbage but totally enjoyable. Even the Crystal Skull one if you suspend disbelief hard enough and ignore the plot holes.

Girl version doing it Better was the problem I had with the initial arc for Lady Thor. She couldn’t just be her own version, she had to be a Better version. Got much better after the first eight and during her parts in All New All Different Avengers when she wasn’t being constantly compared to Odinson.

**Ahtman**

That "leak" sounds tailor made to rile up the internet and I don't put much weight on it being real.

**trexmeyer**

Ahtman wrote:
That "leak" sounds tailor made to rile up the internet and I don't put much weight on it being real.

KK went from saying that there was no material to use for the Star Wars sequel trilogy to ripping off the EU and replacing Luke's role with Ahsoka and Rey so...yeah, I wouldn't put anything beyond Hollywood ever.

**BobtheInquisitor**

Let me know when they rip off the Yuuzhan Vong, then. As crap as they were, they’re miles ahead of the Sequel Trilogy in terms of creativity and storytelling.

**LordofHats**

I honestly think the Yuuzhan Vong have aged better than expected. I look on them way better now if only because they're miles better than constantly rehashing Palpatine, the Empire, and Thrawn.

As much as I like Thrawn.

**trexmeyer**

I don't mind the YV, but I didn't mean to derail the thread.
Does anyone know what the Dial of Destiny is for certain yet?

**Ghaz**

It’s a MacGuffin

**trexmeyer**

Yeah, I walked into that one.

**BobtheInquisitor**

It is a clockwork-like device with four primary glyphs that opens and expands to reveal a person’s entire destiny. The glyphs stand for Mansion, Apartment, Shack and House.

**Vulcan**

Azreal13 wrote:
She's almost 70, and while I've never enjoyed making money at the rate I'm sure she does, I'm sure there still comes a point where that ticking clock gets louder and louder and the desire to actually spend some time enjoying it gets stronger.

Fact of the matter is she's almost certainly standing down soon one way or another, people will ascribe motive to it as they see fit and some of them will be correct.

As best I can tell, her stint at Lucasfilm has nothing to do with money. She's ENJOYING being a divisive figure and costing Disney billions of dollars in lost sales and insulting fans of her franchises. She's nearing retirement, yes, but she's still angling for a number of executive producer positions post-retirement so she can continue wreaking havoc among the fans.

**Mad Doc Grotsnik**

I’m sorry I’m sorry.

Can you explain and support, using citation and evidence, not opinion, literally everything you just claimed?

Particularly the claim she’s cost Disney Billions of dollars?

**Tsagualsa**

Ahtman wrote:That "leak" sounds tailor made to rile up the internet and I don't put much weight on it being real.

I feel the same - i might be true, or have a kernel of truth to it, but it just fits the clicheed thinking of toxic fans so extremely well that it beggars belief...

trexmeyer wrote:
Ahtman wrote:
That "leak" sounds tailor made to rile up the internet and I don't put much weight on it being real.

KK went from saying that there was no material to use for the Star Wars sequel trilogy to ripping off the EU and replacing Luke's role with Ahsoka and Rey so...yeah, I wouldn't put anything beyond Hollywood ever.

The thing about there being no material might be true from a legal / producers point of view, if you read it to mean 'No material that can be readily adapted without getting bogged down in licensing, fee-splitting, royalties and other complicated matters that can easily wreck the whole production'. The novels and comics are decades old in many cases, and have switched license holders a couple of times in many cases, while spin-offs, games, toys etc. based on them have their own sub-licenses and so on. Untangling that in a reasonable time frame might well be expensive enough not to be worth the bother, and you absolutely do not wager one of your major franchises' flagship releases on a clusterf***k like that.

Vulcan wrote:
Azreal13 wrote:
She's almost 70, and while I've never enjoyed making money at the rate I'm sure she does, I'm sure there still comes a point where that ticking clock gets louder and louder and the desire to actually spend some time enjoying it gets stronger.

Fact of the matter is she's almost certainly standing down soon one way or another, people will ascribe motive to it as they see fit and some of them will be correct.

As best I can tell, her stint at Lucasfilm has nothing to do with money. She's ENJOYING being a divisive figure and costing Disney billions of dollars in lost sales and insulting fans of her franchises. She's nearing retirement, yes, but she's still angling for a number of executive producer positions post-retirement so she can continue wreaking havoc among the fans.

That sounds... unlikely.

**Vulcan**

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
I’m sorry I’m sorry.

Can you explain and support, using citation and evidence, not opinion, literally everything you just claimed?

Particularly the claim she’s cost Disney Billions of dollars?

Had they been done right, there's no reason each movie of the sequel couldn't have made at least as much as the first installment.

TFA: $2 billion.
TLJ: $1.3 billion
ROtS: $1 billion.

There's roughly $1.7 billion in lost sales right there. Add in another $1.7 billion from the truly DISMAL performance of Solo, and you're over $3 billion in lost ticket sales right there.

Dealing with the shows on Disney, it's harder to track the money lost, but aside from Mandalorian every single show they've had was reported to have 'disappointing returns'.

Don't take my word for it. Poke around a bit and the stories are out there.

**Mad Doc Grotsnik**

Ahhh, so a story comprised of Pure Madeupium.

And no, to paraphrase I won’t “do my own research”. It’s your claim. You need to support it.

As for the D+ shows? Returns? Returns on what? I…I don’t pay per-show, do I? Rather I subscribe to the service, and watch what I want, when I want?

**Geifer**

I'm not going to take sides here, but for instance the Lord of the Rings trilogy made more money with each movie, and that shouldn't come as a surprise when you consider that it's conceived as a single story with a conclusion in the third part. Surely it's not an outlandish thought that a trilogy that is done well and managed to hook the audience should increase rather than decrease its earnings?

**Mad Doc Grotsnik**

Entirely depends.

Any attempt to paint the sequels as a box office disappointment is delusional at best.

Could they have made more? Like, possibly. Except, I went to see TFA four times in the cinema. Three of those were on the same weekend, with different groups of friends.

TLJ and ROS I saw once each. But I still went to see them in the cinema.

What Vulcan seems to be claiming is because they could, arguably, have made more money, therefore they’re failures and so is Kathleen “third highest grossing producer in the world, adjusted for inflation” Kennedy.

Which is…..one hell of a claim, and one he’s so far not supported other than with numbers pulled straight from someone’s backside.

Here’s a link to Inflation Adjusted Box Offices as a “top ten”.

https://rateyourmusic.com/list/fervent36/top-ten-star-wars-films-adjusted-for-inflation/

Now, do keep in mind the original trilogy have had at least two distinct releases. Their First Runs, and the Special Editions.

Look at those numbers, and then with a straight face say the sequels are box office failures. Even better, why not look up their box office rankings for their year of release, so you can compare to a wider picture?

Only Solo truly disappointed. And even then, it’s still not a truly awful film.

**Azreal13**

It's your classic conspiracy theory. You can't dispute the facts of the money that was made, so you pivot and claim that they would have made more if not because of *reasons*.

I'm not for one minute disputing that she's divisive, I'm not even certain that it isn't feasible that her decisions resulted in a comparatively less successful outcome. But there's apparently an element that is determined to cast her as an antichrist, and while I'm happy to accept that as well, I'm going to need more than "shoulda, woulda, coulda."

**Scrabb**

Continue, the Star Wars do.

The Fandom Split. Attack of the Critics. And many others!

One set of Star Wars movies we haven't heard much about lately is Rian Johnson's trilogy.

**Voss**

Scrabb wrote:

One set of Star Wars movies we haven't heard much about lately is Rian Johnson's trilogy.

Not sure Indy thread is the right place for it, but the timing is odd- there have been multiple mentions of it the last couple days:

tl;dr : 'Not in development now, he's busy'
https://www.ign.com/articles/rian-johnsons-star-wars-trilogy-is-not-actively-in-development
https://screenrant.com/star-wars-rian-johnson-trilogy-kathleen-kennedy-update/

**Tsagualsa**

Azreal13 wrote:
It's your classic conspiracy theory. You can't dispute the facts of the money that was made, so you pivot and claim that they would have made more if not because of *reasons*.

I'm not for one minute disputing that she's divisive, I'm not even certain that it isn't feasible that her decisions resulted in a comparatively less successful outcome. But there's apparently an element that is determined to cast her as an antichrist, and while I'm happy to accept that as well, I'm going to need more than "shoulda, woulda, coulda."

Some of the criticism levelled at her is just outright ridiculous, like for example this nugget from *shudder* Youtube comments:

Have you not heard the leaks from the test screenings and the Production crew, The first one was that she ended the movie by killing both Indy and his pre-Temple of Doom (canonically the first movie in the timeline) counterpart (who was in the movie through time travel) and then giving Phoebe Waller Bridge’s character Indy’s hat, and having a montage of her doing all of the things that Indy’s famous for in the original movies only better. Supposedly Disney’s first test screenings revealed that this would not go over well with anyone and Disney is currently attempting to use re-shoots and various alternative versions of the original filming to piece together something that the fans will like but it’s not going well, which leads to the last and latest of the production crew rumors that there are in fact, re-shoots going on even as we speak, and Kennedy has been banned from the set because she does nothing but complain and having a totally unprofessional hissy fit over the fact that they are not using her preferred script, which was the original one, no matter if it would have destroyed Disney’s ability to continue to make money on Indiana Jones. It’s important to remember that her Spielberg credits are entirely based around the fact that she is apparently really good with setting up shooting locations and other non story elements of production, if the rumors and Steven Spielberg‘s own comments on the subject are correct then her inability to understand her limitations is the source of the problem at Lucas Film.

Like, you know, the actual job a producer is supposed to be good at. She's only good at this, not at 'the story parts' of being a producer, such as... People just have the weirdest idea about how all of this works, a whole shed of axes to grind and ultimately build stories full of wonder and unlikely happenings that are only real in their minds. And nobody ever makes an effort to picture the supposed stakes in a realistic or believable way: sure, a woman that regularly handles projects with hundreds and hundreds of participants and multiple-dozen million budgets 'throws a hissy-fit' and is 'banned from the set' that she's supposed to oversee, and all her colleagues hate her and talk to strangers about that. It's just blatantly nonsense motivated by misogyny and fear of change.

**Voss**

So, from that complaint, she's actually a really good producer, but the original script ending was bad?

Sounds like the real problem (if, indeed, there was a problem) was some of these folks (the screenwriters, according to IMDB):
Jez Butterworth ... (written by) &
John-Henry Butterworth ... (written by) and
David Koepp ... (written by) and
James Mangold ... (written by)

And, of course, there are two other producers and two exec producers, but we don't hear complaints about them.

**Mad Doc Grotsnik**

Of course, given she is indeed 70 soon, and therefore likely to retire before too long? No doubt the Weird Internet Men will claim that as evidence they were correct all along and all their claims, especially the mutually exclusive ones were all completely right and the Libs just got owned.

**Vulcan**

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Ahhh, so a story comprised of Pure Madeupium.

And no, to paraphrase I won’t “do my own research”. It’s your claim. You need to support it.

As for the D+ shows? Returns? Returns on what? I…I don’t pay per-show, do I? Rather I subscribe to the service, and watch what I want, when I want?

Yeah, but D+ subscriptions are DOWN despite the avalanche of Star Wars content. Not the result you'd expect of wildly successful shows, yes?

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Entirely depends.

Any attempt to paint the sequels as a box office disappointment is delusional at best.

Could they have made more? Like, possibly. Except, I went to see TFA four times in the cinema. Three of those were on the same weekend, with different groups of friends.

TLJ and ROS I saw once each. But I still went to see them in the cinema.

What Vulcan seems to be claiming is because they could, arguably, have made more money, therefore they’re failures and so is Kathleen “third highest grossing producer in the world, adjusted for inflation” Kennedy.

Which is…..one hell of a claim, and one he’s so far not supported other than with numbers pulled straight from someone’s backside.

Here’s a link to Inflation Adjusted Box Offices as a “top ten”.

https://rateyourmusic.com/list/fervent36/top-ten-star-wars-films-adjusted-for-inflation/

Now, do keep in mind the original trilogy have had at least two distinct releases. Their First Runs, and the Special Editions.

Look at those numbers, and then with a straight face say the sequels are box office failures. Even better, why not look up their box office rankings for their year of release, so you can compare to a wider picture?

Only Solo truly disappointed. And even then, it’s still not a truly awful film.

You aren't all that familiar with the corporate mindset. If a corporate executive expects $2 billion in revenue and only sees $1 billion in revenue, they considers that to be a $1 billion LOSS.

And that's not including Solo literally losing money.

As far as Kennedy being 'third most successful', she's a midget standing on the shoulders of a giant.... and taking a sledgehammer to his work.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Of course, given she is indeed 70 soon, and therefore likely to retire before too long? No doubt the Weird Internet Men will claim that as evidence they were correct all along and all their claims, especially the mutually exclusive ones were all completely right and the Libs just got owned.

Dude, why bring politics into this? Next you're going to be claiming I hated the sequels because there was a 'strong female main character', a black man, and an asian woman involved and downplaying the ATROCIOUS writing which is what I'm ACTUALLY criticizing.

EDIT: Okay, this is getting way off topic and straying into forbidden territory. I'm going to bounce and let this thread continue without me.