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I’m not sure if bloat is the right term there.

Will we get more unique detachments as the Codexes roll out? Yes, absolutely.

But right now, we don’t know what that really means - nor if it’s a fixed number per Codex, or what benefits or drawbacks we’ll see.

The intent seems to be clear - to allow us to theme or otherwise flavour armies. I for one don’t consider that in itself to be bloat. Just…options.

If they don’t introduce lots of Core Rule exceptions, which stack in odd ways, then it’s just variety which remains the spice of life.

Provided they remain clearly worded and fairly set across the different sheets, could be very good.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
I’m not sure if bloat is the right term there.

Will we get more unique detachments as the Codexes roll out? Yes, absolutely.

But right now, we don’t know what that really means - nor if it’s a fixed number per Codex, or what benefits or drawbacks we’ll see.

The intent seems to be clear - to allow us to theme or otherwise flavour armies. I for one don’t consider that in itself to be bloat. Just…options.

If they don’t introduce lots of Core Rule exceptions, which stack in odd ways, then it’s just variety which remains the spice of life.

Provided they remain clearly worded and fairly set across the different sheets, could be very good.

I broadly agree with this ^

I’m curious about balance updates and faction winrates. Rather than subfactions, specific detachments are likely to be targeted for buffs and nerfs for balance corrections. I’d like to see winrates start to get reported for detachments rather than just for factions as it would be a much better indicator of what’s really going on.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Us3Less wrote:
I really, really hope Sisters keep the Acts of Faith as it is right now. Miracle dice are such a fun mechanism to play with and it fits thematically well as well. It's 'only' one page of rules currently and could be shortened a bit in the explanation. Sisters don't really need sacred rights and Shield of Faith could easily be a datasheet ability. Blessing may be integrated in the enhancements. I have hope they don't mess with the miracle dice, because to me they're pretty much perfect as is.

It's a good question: What happens to the rules that define a faction?

1. Do Acts of Faith and/or Miracle dice get removed wholesale. Or...

2. Are Acts of Faith and/or Miracle dice written as core faction mechanics, meaning there's a page of rules beyond the 2 pages GW keeps telling us about. Or...

3. Do Acts of Faith and/or Miracle dice get included in the 2 page spreads, meaning the rules get repeated over and over again depending on how many detachments there are? Or...

4. Do Acts of Faith and/or Miracle dice only appear on some of the detachments, leaving the others with something different? Or...

5. Do Acts of Faith and/or Miracle dice get split out into the various formations, so one formation gets "Rapturous Blows", whereas another gets "Word of the Emperor"?

It's interesting to think how these things would be applied (and easy to assume GW will pick the worst possible combination of all 5, because it's GW ).

I'm kind of afraid they'll go back to the 6th(?) ed WD style where the Acts of Faith are specific to the unit and included on the card.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
I’m not sure if bloat is the right term there.

Will we get more unique detachments as the Codexes roll out? Yes, absolutely.

I think cries of "bloat!" are inevitable because not everyone is going to have the same interpretation of what that means. Is it five detachments, or 10, or 20?

Still, even if some factions end up with 20 or 30 detachment options to pick from it's still a vast improvement over 9E because of the one-in-one-out approach. You don't need an encylopedic knowledge of all the rules available to an opponent like now, that's all summarised in 1-2 pages that be be easily digested pre-game. There's far less scope for 'gotchas' by combining rules from pages 50+55+67+99 all together into an unexpected wombo-combo.

What's more, playtesting becomes less of a hopeless cause as there's no longer a functionally infinite number of layered special rules that can be applied. It will also be easier to apply targeted balance changes to any problematic units as they crop up, without wondering if the cause is the unit itself, subfaction rules, shared strats, etc. Those factors are going to have a much bigger impact than most people are considering right now.

Added to the OP:

Edit 03/31/2023

This video concerns Space Marine chapter supplements: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8cE1ASmoZ8

- Space Marines will get 'a lot of love' in 10th edition (duh)
- Starter Box is just step one
- 'End of Summer' second wave for SM, September/August
- 'Huge Refresh' for Dark Angels, Blood Angels, Space Wolves
- Dark Angel stuff is from a source he trusts 100%
- Blood Angel and Space Wolf stuff is from a new source
- BA and SW will receive boxed sets
- Dante probably in a boxed set, presented at Warhammer fest (speculation)
- He 'knows' Epic Horus Heresy will be shown of at Warhammer Fest
- Dark Angel box set with brand-new Sammael and Belial (unclear if old or new model)
- Second wave will also include separate kits for the stuff in the 10th box set
- Sanguinary guard: personally believes they'll come, but has no concrete information
- 'Everyone' will get a range refresh like Black Templars: a few units, upgrade frames and a few characters
- Says that will occupy the first half (!) of 10th edition

First half of 10th?
Gonna be a very short edition then

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
First half of 10th?
Gonna be a very short edition then

I think he meant that the release of these three supplements will be drawn out intermittently over the first half of 10th, not that that's all that will ever be released for it

 GiToRaZor wrote:
Morale rules don't really have good track record. So far they were always written as a complex and potentially interesting mechanic. And then they are instantly neutered, because SMs need to know no fear and the various horrors of the galaxy should be considered fearless. In 9th even worse, the entire idea of having to roll for morale is obsolete. If you suffered enough casualties for it to become relevant, your unit was likely already dead anyway.

So let's first see if they reduce the sheer deadliness of everything first. But I can't see Morale to become a decisive factor in 10th. That would mean that Night Lords would be relevant, and when have they not been getting the brown end of the stick?

Right for morale to make a difference the deaths need to slow down. It needs to be slightly momentous to tip a unit over the threshold to test.

If it turns off OC then it could get really interesting since you can tactically deal with different parts of the table without having to have a unit on objective.

'Everyone' will get a range refresh like Black Templars: a few units, upgrade frames and a few characters

Everyone who? The BA, DA, and Space Wolves? All the SM supplement codices? Grey Knighes? Custodes? CSM? All factions?

Dudeface wrote:
The community spends 2 years complaining there's too many rules to remember, nothing is easy to track or keep up with, too many hidden power bumps for units, bring back USRs.

They do literally all that by the intent of their words and suddenly people are upset/confused that they're getting what they asked for. How ele did people expect them to strip back faction purity rules, subfaction rules and "unforseen" interactions out the hoohaa other than reduce the amount of sheer stuff?

It is kind of funny. I feel the dichotomy in my own head.

I know the game needs a slim down, but I love so much of what they did in 9th. Ultimately it's just an extreme lack of information and our heads running wild a bit. And I imagine the indexes will be bland. It won't be until codexes that we see some of these things we enjoyed return.

 MajorWesJanson wrote:
Everyone who? The BA, DA, and Space Wolves? All the SM supplement codices? Grey Knighes? Custodes? CSM? All factions?

BA, DA and Space Wolves most certainly. Deathwatch would get new upgrade sprues, maybe an HQ miniature?

Custodes aren't Marines, so, not them. CSMs basically have had their refresh. I mean, the oldest things in the range outside of vehicles would be Terminator characters and Raptors, right?

 xttz wrote:
Just ignore his posts and move on. Trust me, it makes the forum much more pleasant for you and for everyone else.

Could say the same thing about you, but I actually give a damn about Dudeface's opinions.

 MajorWesJanson wrote:

'Everyone' will get a range refresh like Black Templars: a few units, upgrade frames and a few characters

Everyone who? The BA, DA, and Space Wolves? All the SM supplement codices? Grey Knighes? Custodes? CSM? All factions?

I have absolutely no idea From the context of the video it seems like he means the three mentioned Space Marine chapters, but i'm not entirely sure, so i opted for the direct citation.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 MajorWesJanson wrote:
Everyone who? The BA, DA, and Space Wolves? All the SM supplement codices? Grey Knighes? Custodes? CSM? All factions?

BA, DA and Space Wolves most certainly. Deathwatch would get new upgrade sprues, maybe an HQ miniature?

Custodes aren't Marines, so, not them. CSMs basically have had their refresh. I mean, the oldest things in the range outside of vehicles would be Terminator characters and Raptors, right?

 xttz wrote:
Just ignore his posts and move on. Trust me, it makes the forum much more pleasant for you and for everyone else.

Could say the same thing about you, but I actually give a damn about Dudeface's opinions.

And that's why you're a person to respect even if disagreed with.

One would think 30k would mean enough marine releases, especially if the artificial nonsense distinction of primaris and firstborn gets dropped....

But nope, it seems we need more nerfgun marines.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
CSMs basically have had their refresh. I mean, the oldest things in the range outside of vehicles would be Terminator characters and Raptors, right?

Honestly, I'm okay with the Raptors and Warp Talon models. They actually have more details, if less detailed, than the modern CSM stuff. And their smaller stature is explained away by the Warp mutating them that way to allow them the capability of true flight.

 bullyboy wrote:
So the move to these simplified detachments certainly seems simpler as far as rules go, but my reservations are in how many detachments each faction is going to get. I’m unlikely to know all of my opponents rules and detachments, so explanations are still going to be necessary. I also assume that these detachments will rapidly expand (dare I say bloat) as more and more codexes are released.

If the idea is that people end up with two pages of rules that aren't on the datasheets - and there's a way to print them - then all you (and your opponent) should need to do is ensure you each bring two copies of those with you, and exchange a copy before the game begins. Job jobbed.

I'm glad to hear they are focusing on Marines due to their limited model range rather than say Eldar.

Loopstah wrote:
I'm glad to hear they are focusing on Marines due to their limited model range rather than say Eldar.

Well for what it's worth, the same source for these rumours also claims that Striking Scorpions are in the next KT box.

Saturmorn Carvilli wrote:

Spoiler:

Ha! Oh yeah. Forgot about them.

Good call.

Saturmorn Carvilli wrote:
Honestly, I'm okay with the Raptors and Warp Talon models. They actually have more details, if less detailed, than the modern CSM stuff. And their smaller stature is explained away by the Warp mutating them that way to allow them the capability of true flight.

The thing about the Raptors is that they fit the redesigned Chaos aesthetic... or... really, they originated what we currently have. They're a bit heavier on the trim and whatnot - and if I'm being honest I prefer the second version of the Ratpors to the current ones - but these are still fine.

I am cautiously optimistic about this.
Sure, it will eventually bloat, as it always does.
And looking at some reactions here that does seem to be demanded by some members of the community anyways.

And there is still the issue that at one point all but the most hardcore players will get to the " your special rules are what? Guess i lost" point.

But it sounds a lot more manageable to understand and remember two pages of enemy formation (thats what this is in my book, 7th formations) rules than what we have now.

If they can now pace the inevidable powercreep so new isnt ALWAYS better we might end up with a game i enjoy playing.

Edit 03/31/2023

This video concerns Space Marine chapter supplements: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8cE1ASmoZ8

- Space Marines will get 'a lot of love' in 10th edition (duh)
- Starter Box is just step one
- 'End of Summer' second wave for SM, September/August
- 'Huge Refresh' for Dark Angels, Blood Angels, Space Wolves
- Dark Angel stuff is from a source he trusts 100%
- Blood Angel and Space Wolf stuff is from a new source
- BA and SW will receive boxed sets
- Dante probably in a boxed set, presented at Warhammer fest (speculation)
- He 'knows' Epic Horus Heresy will be shown of at Warhammer Fest
- Dark Angel box set with brand-new Sammael and Belial (unclear if old or new model)
- Second wave will also include separate kits for the stuff in the 10th box set
- Sanguinary guard: personally believes they'll come, but has no concrete information
- 'Everyone' will get a range refresh like Black Templars: a few units, upgrade frames and a few characters
- Says that will occupy the first half (!) of 10th edition

Where are my GK 'bigtermies'?

Very interesting warcom article. I honestly didn't expect them to go this direction with Detachments. I think it's a nice flexible system that allows you to paint your army however you like and pick the detachment that suits them best. I see it as a huge boon for players who like to make custom chapters, craftworlds, kultures, etc.

I'm also pleased to see they are limiting Epic Heroes to one per army, I never did like seeing "Super Friends" lists in 7th edition or early 8th. I am hopeful they are strict about what is an epic hero, that way Space Wolves players and Chaos Daemons can still field armies of names heroes and daemons if they so choose.

Aash wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
I’m not sure if bloat is the right term there.

Will we get more unique detachments as the Codexes roll out? Yes, absolutely.

But right now, we don’t know what that really means - nor if it’s a fixed number per Codex, or what benefits or drawbacks we’ll see.

The intent seems to be clear - to allow us to theme or otherwise flavour armies. I for one don’t consider that in itself to be bloat. Just…options.

If they don’t introduce lots of Core Rule exceptions, which stack in odd ways, then it’s just variety which remains the spice of life.

Provided they remain clearly worded and fairly set across the different sheets, could be very good.

I broadly agree with this ^

I’m curious about balance updates and faction winrates. Rather than subfactions, specific detachments are likely to be targeted for buffs and nerds for balance corrections. I’m like to see winrates start to get reported for detachments rather than just for factions as it would be a much better indicator of what’s really going on.

Same here, I think this would be a far easier way to balance the game by looking at the results of which detachments are pulling in big win rates (and against which other detachments) when it comes to game balancing. Also, in full agreement with Mad Doc Grotsnik's post

 xttz wrote:

Loopstah wrote:
I'm glad to hear they are focusing on Marines due to their limited model range rather than say Eldar.

Well for what it's worth, the same source for these rumours also claims that Striking Scorpions are in the next KT box.

Would much, much, much preferred Warp Spiders in the KT Box, or another Aspect currently wallowing in finecast shame.

 The Red Hobbit wrote:


Would much, much, much preferred Warp Spiders in the KT Box, or another Aspect currently wallowing in finecast shame.

Umm, Scorpions are in Finecast...
Or are you saying you just don't like Scorpions?

 dreadblade wrote:

Edit 03/31/2023

This video concerns Space Marine chapter supplements: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8cE1ASmoZ8

- Space Marines will get 'a lot of love' in 10th edition (duh)
- Starter Box is just step one
- 'End of Summer' second wave for SM, September/August
- 'Huge Refresh' for Dark Angels, Blood Angels, Space Wolves
- Dark Angel stuff is from a source he trusts 100%
- Blood Angel and Space Wolf stuff is from a new source
- BA and SW will receive boxed sets
- Dante probably in a boxed set, presented at Warhammer fest (speculation)
- He 'knows' Epic Horus Heresy will be shown of at Warhammer Fest
- Dark Angel box set with brand-new Sammael and Belial (unclear if old or new model)
- Second wave will also include separate kits for the stuff in the 10th box set
- Sanguinary guard: personally believes they'll come, but has no concrete information
- 'Everyone' will get a range refresh like Black Templars: a few units, upgrade frames and a few characters
- Says that will occupy the first half (!) of 10th edition

Where are my GK 'bigtermies'?

Hiding with the power armor guys who are scaled better than the bread-boxes strapped to their arms.
A GK range refresh seems like it would be easy whenever they want to do it, but with the general upscale I'm glad they didn't try to do it during the transition period.

GW barely release new characters outside of boxsets anymore so that is hardly even speculation, it's kind of just a logical deduction. If I want Dante, I'm sure it will be a case of getting him with 5 intercessors, probably an Impulsor and some of the old blood angel terminators for £100. If we're lucky, available on his own within a year.

Billicus wrote:
GW barely release new characters outside of boxsets anymore so that is hardly even speculation, it's kind of just a logical deduction. If I want Dante, I'm sure it will be a case of getting him with 5 intercessors, probably an Impulsor and some of the old blood angel terminators for £100. If we're lucky, available on his own within a year.

We've literally seen that he will be getting a solo boxed release. That's how we saw him get leaked.

 Kanluwen wrote:

Billicus wrote:
GW barely release new characters outside of boxsets anymore so that is hardly even speculation, it's kind of just a logical deduction. If I want Dante, I'm sure it will be a case of getting him with 5 intercessors, probably an Impulsor and some of the old blood angel terminators for £100. If we're lucky, available on his own within a year.

We've literally seen that he will be getting a solo boxed release. That's how we saw him get leaked.

I mean, he'll get a solo release eventually, could be they pop him into the two months early boxset tax. I wouldn't be surprised if they did the manufacture and boxing of both at the same time rather than in separate runs. (In that I suspect there are boxes of the solo Vashtor and Azrael stashed in the warehouse currently.)

If that were the case, it would be in whatever the new box design would be.

Dante's box would not look out of place right now.

I couldn't be happier than to be proved wrong on it, but nearly all the characters get their launch in "battle boxes" or an equivalent at the moment, which is the point I was making - that "Dante probably in a box set" isn't much of a rumour, it's just an obvious deduction.

An entirely speculative thought about Chaos in 10th. Yes it is viewed through Rose Tinteds. No you cannot divest them me of them on this one, because I have used a Stapler and Eternogum, which not even Swarfega* can shift.

And it’s to do with Detachments. Detachments with perhaps just an extra page, displaying your unit options drawn from different Chaos Codexes. Like allying, without allying.

Because much as a Jumbo Chaos Codex would be my preference, I think we have to accept that’s probably not happening.

But to have a few** Detachments which draw different units from different Codexes might well be the Next Best Thing.

Whether that’s practical remains to be seen, as we’re yet to actually see a Detachment sheet. But, I’d say from what we know so far, it doesn’t sound inherently implausible.

*It’s a real thing, and not a swear.

**you decide what few would be here.