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 nordsturmking wrote:
Wtf who came up with that Rad-Bombardment rule? With MSU Eldar the whole army is battle-shocked or half dead or did I miss something XD

Battleshock or a 3+ chance at D3 mortal wounds... That's 4/3 of a wound on average, not exactly 'half-dead'. Annoying, and again rolls for rolls for rolls, and you can always take the battleshock; if you're going second that has practically no effect anyway as far as we know.

Never underestimate GW to write bad rules.

My mistake for being hopeful lol.

Elfs tomorrow.
Not craftworld or dark, just 'aeldari...'
(though the thumbnail is a swooping hawk)

 nordsturmking wrote:
Wtf who came up with that Rad-Bombardment rule? With MSU Eldar the whole army is battle-shocked or half dead or did I miss something XD

Battleshock isn't that big of a downside for turn 1 as most primary scoring happens from turn 2 onwards. As you typically won't get getting first-turn charged by AdMech, in most cases the only downside is no stratagems on that unit for a turn.

I'd be taking the 3+ roll.

Voss wrote:

Elfs tomorrow.
Not craftworld or dark, just 'aeldari...'
(though the thumbnail is a swooping hawk)

In their marketing, Craftworld is Aeldari, Dark Eldar are Drukhari. At least that's how they labeled the card packs.

Well the Vanguard lost a point of armour and invulnerable save.

Probably means the Eldar saves will drop back to paper again, making guardians even less useful...

Tsagualsa wrote:

Voss wrote:

Elfs tomorrow.
Not craftworld or dark, just 'aeldari...'
(though the thumbnail is a swooping hawk)

In their marketing, Craftworld is Aeldari, Dark Eldar are Drukhari. At least that's how they labeled the card packs.

Ah, I'd missed that. Its all just eldar to me still (dark or crafty).

Voss wrote:

Tsagualsa wrote:

Voss wrote:

Elfs tomorrow.
Not craftworld or dark, just 'aeldari...'
(though the thumbnail is a swooping hawk)

In their marketing, Craftworld is Aeldari, Dark Eldar are Drukhari. At least that's how they labeled the card packs.

Ah, I'd missed that. Its all just eldar to me still (dark or crafty).

They changed that some time ago, probably because these newfangled terms are easier to claim intellectual property for

Huh, did the BS and saves on skitarii get worse or am I remembering incorrectly?

I'm not sure how I feel about this, but its a case of we know precious little so not much to really work with. Obviously the saves got worse because of the whole army wide AP reduction ability which would be way too strong if the baseline was a 4+ save, same probably with an army wide boost to armor penetration on a 3+ to hit. Still, it seems like (from this singular data point), that the units have lost some of their luster in order to slap their former ability/make their new ability less broken on the army wide rule.

Also a bit interesting, their army ability is stay in your own deployment zone and bombard the enemy in theirs, but they actually have no bonus in the midfield. It seems like a mildly awkward anti-castling castle set of rules to me. We'll see how it turns out though.

 nordsturmking wrote:
Wtf who came up with that Rad-Bombardment rule? With MSU Eldar the whole army is battle-shocked or half dead or did I miss something XD

How dare GW make rules that discourage MSU and footslogging your entire army!

Now I agree this is a boring detachment ability and the first we've seen that straight out does damage to the opponent, but it is certainly interesting in it's impact on the game.

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 nordsturmking wrote:
Wtf who came up with that Rad-Bombardment rule? With MSU Eldar the whole army is battle-shocked or half dead or did I miss something XD

its on a 3+, and then you're doing 1.5 wounds on average per unit

Oh, and its a new edition where transports seem like they'll be more intereseting so thats a good way to not be as affected tbh

The avg of a d3 ist 2 not 1.5 So on a 5 man unit 40% are dead

Tsagualsa wrote:

 nordsturmking wrote:
Wtf who came up with that Rad-Bombardment rule? With MSU Eldar the whole army is battle-shocked or half dead or did I miss something XD

Battleshock or a 3+ chance at D3 mortal wounds... That's 4/3 of a wound on average, not exactly 'half-dead'. Annoying, and again rolls for rolls for rolls, and you can always take the battleshock; if you're going second that has practically no effect anyway as far as we know.

Taking the battleshock could blunt an army turn 1, but we have to see all the strats. Also I'm confused on if it matters if the opponent takes the shock and goes first -- is the shock even relevant since it presumably will fade away immediately?

Tsagualsa wrote:

Voss wrote:

Elfs tomorrow.
Not craftworld or dark, just 'aeldari...'
(though the thumbnail is a swooping hawk)

In their marketing, Craftworld is Aeldari, Dark Eldar are Drukhari. At least that's how they labeled the card packs.

Codex: Aeldari covers Asuryani(Craftworld Eldar), Harlequins, Corsairs, and Ynnari. Hence why it's Aeldari vs the more specific Drukhari.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

Tsagualsa wrote:

 nordsturmking wrote:
Wtf who came up with that Rad-Bombardment rule? With MSU Eldar the whole army is battle-shocked or half dead or did I miss something XD

Battleshock or a 3+ chance at D3 mortal wounds... That's 4/3 of a wound on average, not exactly 'half-dead'. Annoying, and again rolls for rolls for rolls, and you can always take the battleshock; if you're going second that has practically no effect anyway as far as we know.

Taking the battleshock could blunt an army turn 1, but we have to see all the strats. Also I'm confused on if it matters if the opponent takes the shock and goes first -- is the shock even relevant since it presumably will fade away immediately?

The ability specifies that the Battleshock lasts until the end of the Battleround, so i guess that supersedes the usual recovery from Battleshock.

Tsagualsa wrote:

 nordsturmking wrote:
Wtf who came up with that Rad-Bombardment rule? With MSU Eldar the whole army is battle-shocked or half dead or did I miss something XD

Battleshock or a 3+ chance at D3 mortal wounds... That's 4/3 of a wound on average, not exactly 'half-dead'. Annoying, and again rolls for rolls for rolls, and you can always take the battleshock; if you're going second that has practically no effect anyway as far as we know.

Yeah and if you have 20 units thats 25MW with no counterplay. I really don't like rules that just pasively damage the whole army.

 nordsturmking wrote:

Tsagualsa wrote:

 nordsturmking wrote:
Wtf who came up with that Rad-Bombardment rule? With MSU Eldar the whole army is battle-shocked or half dead or did I miss something XD

Battleshock or a 3+ chance at D3 mortal wounds... That's 4/3 of a wound on average, not exactly 'half-dead'. Annoying, and again rolls for rolls for rolls, and you can always take the battleshock; if you're going second that has practically no effect anyway as far as we know.

Yeah and if you have 20 units thats 25MW with no counterplay. I really don't like rules that just pasively damage the whole army.

I'm not saying that it is a good rule, in fact i have stated that i find this stuff stupid, but it's not gamebreaking in itself imho. Also, it's only affecting stuff in your deployment zone, and you can opt to take the battleshock instead, or deploy in transports etc.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

Tsagualsa wrote:

 nordsturmking wrote:
Wtf who came up with that Rad-Bombardment rule? With MSU Eldar the whole army is battle-shocked or half dead or did I miss something XD

Battleshock or a 3+ chance at D3 mortal wounds... That's 4/3 of a wound on average, not exactly 'half-dead'. Annoying, and again rolls for rolls for rolls, and you can always take the battleshock; if you're going second that has practically no effect anyway as far as we know.

Taking the battleshock could blunt an army turn 1, but we have to see all the strats. Also I'm confused on if it matters if the opponent takes the shock and goes first -- is the shock even relevant since it presumably will fade away immediately?

it says "... until the end of the battle round, that unit is battle-shocked. " that means you can't use strats on that unit.

 nordsturmking wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

Tsagualsa wrote:

 nordsturmking wrote:
Wtf who came up with that Rad-Bombardment rule? With MSU Eldar the whole army is battle-shocked or half dead or did I miss something XD

Battleshock or a 3+ chance at D3 mortal wounds... That's 4/3 of a wound on average, not exactly 'half-dead'. Annoying, and again rolls for rolls for rolls, and you can always take the battleshock; if you're going second that has practically no effect anyway as far as we know.

Taking the battleshock could blunt an army turn 1, but we have to see all the strats. Also I'm confused on if it matters if the opponent takes the shock and goes first -- is the shock even relevant since it presumably will fade away immediately?

it says "... until the end of the battle round, that unit is battle-shocked. " that means you can't use strats on that unit.

you weren't gonna use strats on your whole army turn 1 anyway, and you can chose to take the mortals on the few units you need to cap an objective.

I can guarantee its gonna be one of the weaker battalion abilities

Given you'll in all likelyhood only have 1-2 CP, you probably aren't going to be able/wanting to use many strats anyway.

Tsagualsa wrote:

 nordsturmking wrote:

Tsagualsa wrote:

 nordsturmking wrote:
Wtf who came up with that Rad-Bombardment rule? With MSU Eldar the whole army is battle-shocked or half dead or did I miss something XD

Battleshock or a 3+ chance at D3 mortal wounds... That's 4/3 of a wound on average, not exactly 'half-dead'. Annoying, and again rolls for rolls for rolls, and you can always take the battleshock; if you're going second that has practically no effect anyway as far as we know.

Yeah and if you have 20 units thats 25MW with no counterplay. I really don't like rules that just pasively damage the whole army.

I'm not saying that it is a good rule, in fact i have stated that i find this stuff stupid, but it's not gamebreaking in itself imho. Also, it's only affecting stuff in your deployment zone, and you can opt to take the battleshock instead, or deploy in transports etc.

I know i am not saying its gamebreaking, it's just dumb.

Voss wrote:
I do like the 3 pick 1 specials (though we could lose special characters entirely and I wouldn't be sad- quite the opposite, really).

It gives some versatility and player choice without the overwhelming need to track a bunch of different things or being overpowered by doing everything at once (both of which were previously problems.).

I think it would have been more interesting if there were a normal 2 or 3 for each faction that got assigned to the "general" each game, and the "supreme commander" had a unique one on top of that, it would lean less into including the big guy all the time.

 Baragash wrote:

Voss wrote:
I do like the 3 pick 1 specials (though we could lose special characters entirely and I wouldn't be sad- quite the opposite, really).

It gives some versatility and player choice without the overwhelming need to track a bunch of different things or being overpowered by doing everything at once (both of which were previously problems.).

I think it would have been more interesting if there were a normal 2 or 3 for each faction that got assigned to the "general" each game, and the "supreme commander" had a unique one on top of that, it would lean less into including the big guy all the time.

We have not seen that many 'normal' commanders yet, that may be the case for some armies.

Tsagualsa wrote:
The ability specifies that the Battleshock lasts until the end of the Battleround, so i guess that supersedes the usual recovery from Battleshock.

Ugg. Thanks. Way too early in the morning for me, I guess.

Tsagualsa wrote:
I'm not saying that it is a good rule, in fact i have stated that i find this stuff stupid, but it's not gamebreaking in itself imho. Also, it's only affecting stuff in your deployment zone, and you can opt to take the battleshock instead, or deploy in transports etc.

Or do what people always did with these abilities, reserve relevant part of your army and come aboard after bombardment passes. Like in real life, where you really don't want to mass assault units where opponent can easily bomb them all at once.

 Hellebore wrote:
Probably means the Eldar saves will drop back to paper again, making guardians even less useful...

The sooner someone competent vaporizes the pile of cheese Phil Kelly piled on them for the last five editions, the better. If they go back to 4th edition statlines (and having actual drawbacks, like Wraith units being strong but needing a support unit instead of being an army of Gorgonzola dispensers with zero weaknesses) I will feel optimistic about this edition for the pretty much first time...

Well Rad-Bombardment is interesting detachment rule but there is clear restrictions to it. Simply be in transport or get out of your deployment zone. Or be a Necron!

Now Vanguard is going to be interesting as Rad-Saturation does not decrease opponents toughnes but instead decreases OC by a model.

 nordsturmking wrote:

Tsagualsa wrote:

 nordsturmking wrote:
Wtf who came up with that Rad-Bombardment rule? With MSU Eldar the whole army is battle-shocked or half dead or did I miss something XD

Battleshock or a 3+ chance at D3 mortal wounds... That's 4/3 of a wound on average, not exactly 'half-dead'. Annoying, and again rolls for rolls for rolls, and you can always take the battleshock; if you're going second that has practically no effect anyway as far as we know.

Yeah and if you have 20 units thats 25MW with no counterplay. I really don't like rules that just pasively damage the whole army.

*shrug*

If you're running MSU then take the battleshock. That's the counterplay.

Having played a lot of Stalker Gamma recently, im digging the new Rad rules. Pretty rad.

The artillery rule makes me hope the Guard will be getting something similar.

If you go MSU, you can hardly complain about a hard counter. Because it’s still a strategic choice, and thus a risk.

 Irbis wrote:

The sooner someone competent vaporizes the pile of cheese Phil Kelly piled on them for the last five editions, the better. If they go back to 4th edition statlines (and having actual drawbacks, like Wraith units being strong but needing a support unit instead of being an army of Gorgonzola dispensers with zero weaknesses) I will feel optimistic about this edition for the pretty much first time...

lolwut? Wraiths have been the weaker part of the codex for a while now...

Genuinely wondering how useful the Rad Bombardment will be.

It goes off in the first Battleround for the big impact. And after that, only units within their deployment zone are at risk.

Against stuff like Tau, where we might reasonably expect some units to setup and remain relatively static, it should be tasty.

But then, there’s now less benefit to remaining Stationary with Heavy Weapons. So even standardly static stuff, like Railgun Broadsides have less reason to stand around like a Lemon.

Vanguard are pretty useful though. -1 OC to enemies with 3” could entirely prevent scoring.

Hmmm. Yessir, I think I like it.