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Voss wrote:

Fortune puzzles me, to be honest. Why the wound roll?

Does it prevent Critical Wounds? Also, by affecting the wound roll you roll slightly fewer dice than if it affected the hit roll.

Ya after seeing the guardian data sheet I'm almost positive skitarii will be near useless.

However aeldari looks good. Prism cannon looks very nice.

Where did they claim there would be zero rerolls?

They never said there'd be no re-rolls at all though, and given how many re-rolls there were in 9th everything we've seen thus far is in fact less re-rolls

Voss wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

Voss wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/05/16/warhammer-40000-faction-focus-aeldari/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=warhammer-40,000&utm_content=ffaeldari16052023

More rerolls for the less rerolls edition!

Were you all pent up from several articles with few to no rerolls?

Creepy innuendo aside, I dislike it when someone tries to sell me something, then immediately goes back on their initial claims during the rest of the sales pitch.

Especially since this isn't a few rerolls. Its the core faction mechanic and the core detachment ability, with the latter affecting every single unit.

But we are seeing fewer re-rolls. It looks like all the re-roll auras are gone, outside of the big faction leaders. The overall effect is going to be a lot fewer dice re-rolled over the course of the game, more than likely an entire order of magnitude fewer, in fact. The detachment rule is the same as an existing sub-faction rule and one per unit is nowhere near the same as full re-rolls from Guide or Doom, or re-roll 1s across most of your army from an Autarch.

Tsagualsa wrote:

Voss wrote:

Fortune puzzles me, to be honest. Why the wound roll?

Does it prevent Critical Wounds? Also, by affecting the wound roll you roll slightly fewer dice than if it affected the hit roll.

I'd hope it prevents crits.

And... no. It affects fewer dice. If you modified the hit rolls, the opponent would roll less (barring skewed rolls, fewer successful hits means fewer wound rolls, so fewer saves to make)
Its also (unless I'm completely misremembering) more in keeping with the way the power worked historically.

Would not be shocked if they changed it to wounds specifically to make it less powerful, or at the very least as a reaction to the general negativity -1 To Hit abilities recieved... back when modifiers stacked

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
They never said there'd be no re-rolls at all though, and given how many re-rolls there were in 9th everything we've seen thus far is in fact less re-rolls

I never said I expected no rerolls. And yes, fewer is less. Well spotted.

But it seems disingenuous at face value when they're building faction and detachment abilities around re-rolls. And dice-swapping that technically isn't rerolls (but is, you're just doing the re-roll out of order and being more metagamey about applying them).

It also has a very high potential of skewing the relative power levels of armies very badly, when only some factions can mitigate the dice.

Bad choice of words, but get your mind out of the gutter.

Defenders gave themselves rerolls in 9th. Now they get one hit and one wound. Considering that most people used 'Expert Crafters' for the wound reroll that's a sum total increase of one hit reroll per unit.

Fate Dice aren't rerolls. And you used to get 6 D6 each turn with lots of options for FD rerolls.

You're practicing some selection bias when you remark on rerolls you see, but then fail to remark on rerolls that were removed.

Guardians hitting on a 3+ while the Leagues hit on a 4+ really doesn't seem right. The Leagues are meant to be trained to elite standards.

Torn on the Eldar. Preferred rolling Fate dice per battle round, not once for whole battle. Gonna be hard to keep those dice safe without knocking them around (yeah, it’s only 6 more and will diminish, but it seems like a lot more to be careful about). I do like that you have to plan for the game though.
Is this the first time since forever that a Farseer doesn’t have Guide and Doom? That feels really……….odd.
Granted, it’s kind of built into the detachment rule so this is probably more the psychic detachment (Ulthwe) than Biel Tan (I think we’ll see a more aspect themed in with codex).
Fire Prism looks good.
As someone mentioned, not sure on which squad weapon I like right now.
At least people don’t have to see -3AP on shuriken anymore.

Voss wrote:
It also has a very high potential of skewing the relative power levels of armies very badly, when only some factions can mitigate the dice.

Eldar are soft. People wanted them to get durability in the Sister's complaint threads, but that wasn't going to happen broadly for this faction. Instead they get reliability.

It can be a problem in an IGOUGO system, but we'll have to see how it all shakes out with the rest of the info.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 bullyboy wrote:

Is this the first time since forever that a Farseer doesn’t have Guide and Doom? That feels really……….odd.

I really wish they'd show us enhancements and if there's any spells among them. It might solve some of my concerns. The Farseer feels like a decent caster, but certainly less than they're former incarnation.

 Daedalus81 wrote:
Bad choice of words, but get your mind out of the gutter.

Defenders gave themselves rerolls in 9th. Now they get one hit and one wound. Considering that most people used 'Expert Crafters' for the wound reroll that's a sum total increase of one hit reroll per unit.

Fate Dice aren't rerolls. And you used to get 6 D6 each turn with lots of options for FD rerolls.

You're practicing some selection bias when you remark on rerolls you see, but then fail to remark on rerolls that were removed.

No, I'm practicing 'some selection bias' by not giving a sloth's fart about 9th edition and caring about how these rules affect 10th. If you want to claim you're taking the training wheels off the bicycle, don't immediately offer me several trikes to choose from.

Fate dice are enitrely rerolls (but better). You're replacing one dice roll with another.

Ok, but then a typical game in 9th was 30D6 across a game. Now it's 12. Less, no?

Quite like the look of Eldar overall. Fire and fade access for wraith units and vehicles is quite lovely to have, especially if you can poke a fire prism out and run away.

I get the impression it'll be MSU Mechdar (I hope).

Weird that Skitarii get dropped to a 5+ save while Guardians retain a 4+.

 Daedalus81 wrote:


I really wish they'd show us enhancements and if there's any spells among them. It might solve some of my concerns. The Farseer feels like a decent caster, but certainly less than they're former incarnation.

Who knows, there may be Aces up their sleeves. Even with the datacard design, you could get creative: have e.g. a Seer Council as an unit, with variable amounts of Seers and Warlocks, and then have that unit have abilities that essentially go 'For each Warlock model in this unit, you may pick one target unit...' or something like that.

 Daedalus81 wrote:
Ok, but then a typical game in 9th was 30D6 across a game. Now it's 12. Less, no?

I think some people just want to be angry, I'd leave it be. Voss has agreed there are fewer rerolls but is still upset with the volume present.

 Daedalus81 wrote:
Ok, but then a typical game in 9th was 30D6 across a game. Now it's 12. Less, no?

Every unit in the army rerolls a hit and wound roll every time they attack. How in the world did you arrive at 12?

Are you (inexplicably) just talking about fate dice? (which can also be rerolled, by the by) Because guardians add more fate dice for every objective they're camping. There are probably more mechanics like that. Its never going to be '12.'

Dudeface wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:
Ok, but then a typical game in 9th was 30D6 across a game. Now it's 12. Less, no?

I think some people just want to be angry, I'd leave it be. Voss has agreed there are fewer rerolls but is still upset with the volume present.

Yeah, thats not condescending at all.

Look, maybe it doesn't seem weird that that some factions center their major abilities around rerolls, but it seems pretty dodgy to me. Both in terms of army balance and the fundamental claim that this edition has less rerolls

 Kanluwen wrote:
Weird that Skitarii get dropped to a 5+ save while Guardians retain a 4+.

I think the guardians carapace is meant to be better than guardsmen carapace which checks out, the skitarii armour is largely just standard human armour + a robe so 5+ seems ok with 6++ representing they have some disposable organs etc.

Managing a dice pool and allocating dice is so much more interesting than just passively watching them roll.

Input randomness >>>>>>> output randomness.

So, eldar janitors kept 3+ to hit and 4+ which is beyond idiotic seeing how heavily admech troops were nerfed. They have no business being better than skitarii, especially seeing 3+/4+ niche was occupied by corsairs and other mid grade units, and this pretty much means every eldar unit will be bumped up from this floor with elites cascading to Phil Kelly Special Cheese Wheel levels

This race mechanic is also vastly better than similar Sister one (if only because they get to frontload it from the start and unlike Sisters, they get to turn the useless 1s and 2s into 6s for no cost), and they kept strongest past faction rule that leaves SM oath in the dust on top of it. Gun ranges also weren't nerfed much if at all, and they kept busted stats too (I like how light tank gun has +2S over the best SM AT weapon, heavy laser destroyer, plus mountain of free dice reroll/swaps making it vastly more reliable too because frak you). Oh, and jump/shoot/jump, one of the most annoying and hard to counter for a lot of factions mechanics is back without any unit limitations. Braaavo

Death Guard tomorrow per WH Facebook responses

Boosykes wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

Boosykes wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
We don't know full rules or points. They could have 90% wr or 10%. We can't tell

With stats like the skitarii have it will be closer to 10% than 90%.

Ah. You then have seen rules every army and points. Care to share?

Or you think skitaapi at 1pts/model wouldn't be op?

If you make claims what's good and bad already you publicly admit having zero idea about game balance.

Well let me ask you this do you think skitarri are going to cost more or less than guard?

They will need to pay for the 6++ and frankly it's totally worthless on skitarii with stats that lousy.

Simple as that really they have no appreciable defensive boost over guard and they will cost more.

Their you go done. Sure the rest of the army might be great though that gun they showed on the spider tank also looks bad.

They will pay for stats that don't increase their durability in an appreciable way. So I say again judging from the preview shown they will be on the lower end of the win rate when they drop.

Put it in your calendar and when I'm proven right be gracious in congratulating me on my near prescient vision.

So 1pts more than human guard and still suck?

You honestly don't think there can be points that work? So you admit points never work. Good to know.

Also you just admitted you don't know damn about balance. Nice.

Not a fan of Eldar losing Battle Focus so that we can keep Strands of Fate.

I guess Eldar's speed and mobility is now represented by them being all of 1" faster than a Guardsman.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Weird that Skitarii get dropped to a 5+ save while Guardians retain a 4+.

Also, Necron Warriors lost the AP-1 they'd gained in 8th as a replacement for Gauss, but Eldar get to keep the AP-1 they gained in 9th just because.

 vipoid wrote:
Not a fan of Eldar losing Battle Focus so that we can keep Strands of Fate.

I guess Eldar's speed and mobility is now represented by them being all of 1" faster than a Guardsman.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Weird that Skitarii get dropped to a 5+ save while Guardians retain a 4+.

Also, Necron Warriors lost the AP-1 they'd gained in 8th as a replacement for Gauss, but Eldar get to keep the AP-1 they gained in 9th just because.

Gauss got Lethal Hits instead of the AP bonus. Seems fair enough, and close to the original Gauss rule.

* pours one out for Guide and Doom, yet more victims of removing "bloat" *

 bullyboy wrote:
Death Guard tomorrow per WH Facebook responses

Article itself says so.

 vipoid wrote:
Not a fan of Eldar losing Battle Focus so that we can keep Strands of Fate.

I guess Eldar's speed and mobility is now represented by them being all of 1" faster than a Guardsman.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Weird that Skitarii get dropped to a 5+ save while Guardians retain a 4+.

Also, Necron Warriors lost the AP-1 they'd gained in 8th as a replacement for Gauss, but Eldar get to keep the AP-1 they gained in 9th just because.

They kept the AP because they can no longer get AP-3 on a 6 to wound. That’s actually a pretty big deal (won’t say nerf, but it is close)


Automatically Appended Next Post:

tneva82 wrote:

 bullyboy wrote:
Death Guard tomorrow per WH Facebook responses

Article itself says so.

Hadn’t been updated at the time I wrote it


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
* pours one out for Guide and Doom, yet more victims of removing "bloat" *

This is the biggest “feels off” part of the rules so far. It would be like marines finally losing the land raider as an option.

Voss wrote:

No, I'm practicing 'some selection bias' by not giving a sloth's fart about 9th edition and caring about how these rules affect 10th. If you want to claim you're taking the training wheels off the bicycle, don't immediately offer me several trikes to choose from.

Fate dice are enitrely rerolls (but better). You're replacing one dice roll with another.

Holy gak thats gotta be up there for "shittiest post" of the reveal season.

You : More rerolls for the less rerolls edition!
Also you : not giving a sloth's fart about 9th edition and caring about how these rules affect 10th

so why the feth are you bitching about rerolls if youre not comparing them to 9th then?