10th Edition Rumour Roundup - in the grim darkness of the far future, there are only power levels

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**H.B.M.C.**

Platuan4th wrote:
Wonder if they're going to "forget" to give the Autarchs the weapon options from both kits again.

I wouldn't bet against it, that's for sure.

**Daedalus81**

ERJAK wrote:
Fate dice have been miracle dice 2.0 since they came out and I hate them.

Actually look at those 2 mechanics:

Eldar get 12 free dice over the course of a game. Sisters get 10.
Eldar get all 12 at the beginning, sisters get 1. A turn 1 dice has several times the value of a turn 3 dice.
Eldar get 2 'free' rerolls of all of their dice before they even get down to the number of dice sisters are going to have after turn 5.
Eldar get a cheap HQ that lets them turn dice into 6s. Sisters get a big, stupid, expensive special character.
Eldar get shooting weapons that can actually USE their dice for something other than the wound roll.
Eldar get to generate dice from objectives the same as Sisters do, just with a better unit.

You're looking at a part of each army. Sisters will most certainly have additional mechanics. Getting all 12 dice upfront is not important unless you expect to front-load them and not have any for the rest of the game.

You also seem to be under the impression that MM are bad and that Retributors will have no special rules what-so-ever.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Irbis wrote:
Tyranid Horde wrote:
Quite like the look of Eldar overall. Fire and fade access for wraith units and vehicles is quite lovely to have, especially if you can poke a fire prism out and run away.

The word that comes to mind seeing heavy infantry that was always supposed to be slow getting a rocket engine up their arse and zooming all over the board faster than jump infantry of other races is not 'lovely'. It's .

Ditto with prisms, thanks to stupid, unnerfed gun ranges it's brain dead unit that doesn't require any positioning, just dump them behind heaviest LOS blockers, then poke out one, make it magically fire S18 gun dozen times all over the board, then jump back in before opponent can do anything. What a fun, interactive and balanced mechanic!

bullyboy wrote:
At least people don’t have to see -3AP on shuriken anymore.

Shurikens "nerfed" from OP crap to 'merely' S4 -1 Assault weapon (which is, for the record, Bolter+, on a platform that is both cheaper and far more reliable in hit/wound than any SM model) is not good, it's merely a step in right direction but compared to past broken gak it looks almost bearable. When in reality, something so efficient put in virtually every other army would be autotake infantry gun eclipsing all competition

And before any of the usual jokers goes 'but muh T3', not only Farseers get to make virtually all S4/5 guns targeting them S3 for free, but not paying for useless defensive statline makes these dudes even more efficient against all comers armies that prepared to kill MEQs only to see their expensive guns overkill and fail to wound. The problem with these eldar rules is not just that they are all bonkers compared to stuff the other armies have, it's also that all of it looks easy to wombo combo into multiple broken interactions wherever you look...

Hyperbole thy name is Ibris. You really think a Farseer is going to waste -1 to wound on mooks? Also AP1 isn't some super magical thing. It can get negated, which means those marines and defenders are squaring off with the same armor, but the marines have an extra 6" and T4.

What is this wombo combo that you're seeing? Tucking a prism is 2CP. Not exactly cheap. Maybe we should wait and find out what other things you might spend CP on would be.

**odinsgrandson**

H.B.M.C. wrote:
Platuan4th wrote:
Wonder if they're going to "forget" to give the Autarchs the weapon options from both kits again.
I wouldn't bet against it, that's for sure.

I feel like I ought to be gnashing my gums together and talking about how back in MY day, our "autarchs" were just exarchs that took advantage of their ridiculous gear options in the codex, but GW didn't make any minis for the mixed gear options. We had to convert them ourselves and we LIKED it!

Now get off my lawn!

**RaptorInMotion**

Wow, a lot of doomers in here!

I'm just happy the game in general is getting a well needed refresh. New styles of play, units, rules, its what everyone wanted right?

Though tbh I feel like I play 40k for very different reasons than some here. Mathhammering every little crumb that falls out GWs mouth and then crying that theyve lost the game before one even begun, just seems a little OTT for me. This place is a 40k vacuum though so I guess it is the place to let loose with any issues.

Admech too OP you think? Why not try different strategies and overcome the new obstacles? You get rewarded with something called accomplishment

**Nevelon**

odinsgrandson wrote:
H.B.M.C. wrote:
Platuan4th wrote:
Wonder if they're going to "forget" to give the Autarchs the weapon options from both kits again.
I wouldn't bet against it, that's for sure.

I feel like I ought to be gnashing my gums together and talking about how back in MY day, our "autarchs" were just exarchs that took advantage of their ridiculous gear options in the codex, but GW didn't make any minis for the mixed gear options. We had to convert them ourselves and we LIKED it!

Now get off my lawn!

grumpy grognards thread over here for all your yelling at cloud needs.

**tneva82**

H.B.M.C. wrote:
* pours one out for Guide and Doom, yet more victims of removing "bloat" *

You have seen every power book has? Different datasheet, different powers.

They could be eldrad locked though.

**Nightlord1987**

We could see some trickle down detachments in future Chapter Approved books like they did for 8th edition, to hold over the non codex crowd.

Just saying....

**Daedalus81**

tneva82 wrote:
They could be eldrad locked though.

I'd hate for army defining powers to be character locked.

**Platuan4th**

Nightlord1987 wrote:
We could see some trickle down detachments in future Chapter Approved books like they did for 8th edition, to hold over the non codex crowd.

Just saying....

They've already said there will be White Dwarf Detachments.

**VladimirHerzog**

has it been explicitely said that psykers ONLY get the spells on their datasheet?

**Platuan4th**

VladimirHerzog wrote:
has it been explicitely said that psykers ONLY get the spells on their datasheet?

Explicitly? No. But they also haven't explicitly said whether or not Enhancements include additional Powers.

**vipoid**

Platuan4th wrote:
VladimirHerzog wrote:
has it been explicitely said that psykers ONLY get the spells on their datasheet?

Explicitly? No. But they also haven't explicitly said whether or not Enhancements include additional Powers.

Even if psykers can get additional powers via Enhancements, are we really pretending that's a good thing?

"This ""Enhancement"" gives you the ability to do what you've been able to do for at least the past 7 editions. You may now show appreciation by clapping like seals."

**Daedalus81**

vipoid wrote:
Platuan4th wrote:
VladimirHerzog wrote:
has it been explicitely said that psykers ONLY get the spells on their datasheet?

Explicitly? No. But they also haven't explicitly said whether or not Enhancements include additional Powers.

Even if psykers can get additional powers via Enhancements, are we really pretending that's a good thing?

"This ""Enhancement"" gives you the ability to do what you've been able to do for at least the past 7 editions. You may now show appreciation by clapping like seals."

That's not really the issue in my eyes. Clearly they want to constrain elements of the game to make it easier to manage. Some of that involves removing abundance of choice and I'm pretty fine with most of that - just as long as what replaces it is interesting.

I'm just curious on how much of what we had is still present and where. Is it on other units? Or will some of it be available by enhancement?

Surely a sorcerer joining scarabs could give them a 4++ instead of casting Weaver like I used to. Or maybe scarabs just have a 4++ anyway and Weaver isn't really a thing any longer.

I used to need that spell to keep vehicles alive, but now that vehicles are tougher and if Scarabs have a 4++...do I need it? Probably not. Just give me something else that's interesting.

**skeleton**

Remeber that you only can have three enchantments.

**JNAProductions**

I'll also add. despite my preference for the 3rd-7th paradigm, powers were RANDOM then.

**Daedalus81**

JNAProductions wrote:
I'll also add. despite my preference for the 3rd-7th paradigm, powers were RANDOM then.

Ugg I hated being forced to fish for invisibility to keep up with the dudes who could more easily pick that spell up. Bleck bleck bleck. Picking is great. Now I guess we pick, but models instead of spells.

I did like purchasing in 3.5. So the hope is enhancements will be that sort of purchase.

**VladimirHerzog**

vipoid wrote:
Platuan4th wrote:
VladimirHerzog wrote:
has it been explicitely said that psykers ONLY get the spells on their datasheet?

Explicitly? No. But they also haven't explicitly said whether or not Enhancements include additional Powers.

Even if psykers can get additional powers via Enhancements, are we really pretending that's a good thing?

"This ""Enhancement"" gives you the ability to do what you've been able to do for at least the past 7 editions. You may now show appreciation by clapping like seals."

i'm more talking about a system like AoS, where psykers have innate spells AND can pick from the faction spell list

**Not Online!!!**

purchasing powers should be a thing again. Preferentially diffrent prices for garbage tier squad sorcerers and the actual mean big things and the normal hq sorcerers inbetween, could even add in a tiered system.

but that'd be an interesting scaling core mechanic, can't have that,

**Tsagualsa**

Not Online!!! wrote:
purchasing powers should be a thing again. Preferentially diffrent prices for garbage tier squad sorcerers and the actual mean big things and the normal hq sorcerers inbetween, could even add in a tiered system.

but that'd be an interesting scaling core mechanic, can't have that,

Just wait for ca. two years, then you can buy all that, and customizable wargear, back in the ~~Storm of Magic~~ Darker Millenium box...

**ERJAK**

Daedalus81 wrote:
ERJAK wrote:
Fate dice have been miracle dice 2.0 since they came out and I hate them.

Actually look at those 2 mechanics:

Eldar get 12 free dice over the course of a game. Sisters get 10.
Eldar get all 12 at the beginning, sisters get 1. A turn 1 dice has several times the value of a turn 3 dice.
Eldar get 2 'free' rerolls of all of their dice before they even get down to the number of dice sisters are going to have after turn 5.
Eldar get a cheap HQ that lets them turn dice into 6s. Sisters get a big, stupid, expensive special character.
Eldar get shooting weapons that can actually USE their dice for something other than the wound roll.
Eldar get to generate dice from objectives the same as Sisters do, just with a better unit.

You're looking at a part of each army. Sisters will most certainly have additional mechanics. Getting all 12 dice upfront is not important unless you expect to front-load them and not have any for the rest of the game.

You also seem to be under the impression that MM are bad and that Retributors will have no special rules what-so-ever.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Irbis wrote:
Tyranid Horde wrote:
Quite like the look of Eldar overall. Fire and fade access for wraith units and vehicles is quite lovely to have, especially if you can poke a fire prism out and run away.

The word that comes to mind seeing heavy infantry that was always supposed to be slow getting a rocket engine up their arse and zooming all over the board faster than jump infantry of other races is not 'lovely'. It's .

Ditto with prisms, thanks to stupid, unnerfed gun ranges it's brain dead unit that doesn't require any positioning, just dump them behind heaviest LOS blockers, then poke out one, make it magically fire S18 gun dozen times all over the board, then jump back in before opponent can do anything. What a fun, interactive and balanced mechanic!

bullyboy wrote:
At least people don’t have to see -3AP on shuriken anymore.

Shurikens "nerfed" from OP crap to 'merely' S4 -1 Assault weapon (which is, for the record, Bolter+, on a platform that is both cheaper and far more reliable in hit/wound than any SM model) is not good, it's merely a step in right direction but compared to past broken gak it looks almost bearable. When in reality, something so efficient put in virtually every other army would be autotake infantry gun eclipsing all competition

And before any of the usual jokers goes 'but muh T3', not only Farseers get to make virtually all S4/5 guns targeting them S3 for free, but not paying for useless defensive statline makes these dudes even more efficient against all comers armies that prepared to kill MEQs only to see their expensive guns overkill and fail to wound. The problem with these eldar rules is not just that they are all bonkers compared to stuff the other armies have, it's also that all of it looks easy to wombo combo into multiple broken interactions wherever you look...

Hyperbole thy name is Ibris. You really think a Farseer is going to waste -1 to wound on mooks? Also AP1 isn't some super magical thing. It can get negated, which means those marines and defenders are squaring off with the same armor, but the marines have an extra 6" and T4.

What is this wombo combo that you're seeing? Tucking a prism is 2CP. Not exactly cheap. Maybe we should wait and find out what other things you might spend CP on would be.

MM ARE bad. We've seen the stats on them.

Whether retributors have special rules that makes them worth using is a different story, but Multimeltas, by themselves, are not good. Eldar get a 2 shot 60", S18, AP-4 D6 gun that hits on 3s, meanwhile multimeltas were apparently so scary that they had to lose 6" of range.

And what I'm looking at is two very similar mechanics in a vacuum. The same way you compare like for like with any armies. It doesn't tell the whole story of the power of the FACTIONS, but it DOES tell the whole story of the mechanic by itself.

And by itself, Strands of Fate are MUCH stronger than Acts of Faith.

**Daedalus81**

ERJAK wrote:

MM ARE bad. We've seen the stats on them.

Whether retributors have special rules that makes them worth using is a different story, but Multimeltas, by themselves, are not good. Eldar get a 2 shot 60", S18, AP-4 D6 gun that hits on 3s, meanwhile multimeltas were apparently so scary that they had to lose 6" of range.

And what I'm looking at is two very similar mechanics in a vacuum. The same way you compare like for like with any armies. It doesn't tell the whole story of the power of the FACTIONS, but it DOES tell the whole story of the mechanic by itself.

And by itself, Strands of Fate are MUCH stronger than Acts of Faith.

I don't think you're giving much credit to the layers.

A wounded Sisters unit can move and shoot and still hit on 3s - pushing to 2s in some scenarios.

And while a Prism can pop out and blast you can hide your exorcist(s) and fire back. I imagine a Prism will be T10, which puts you on 4s with S10 - which could now be decidedly a 'medium' anti-tank.

A Prism shooting T10 3+ is....5.3 damage. The Exorcist is 3.2 from Indirect and 5.3 direct.

And against 5++...3.5 vs 5.3.
And T11 5++...3.5 vs 3.5

Sooooo....yea...horrible.

EDIT: the prism values are understated without the possible reroll. I'm going to model all the weapons in UC later on.

**Tyran**

The issue with MM wasn't that an individual MM was scary, but that an unit of retributors had 4 MM plus cherubs, meaning 10 melta shots.

A fireprism sounds scary, but at the end of the day it still is only 2 shots because the vehicle only has one gun that truly matters.

**bullyboy**

Interesting that the article didn’t even say a word about Harlequins.

**Platuan4th**

JNAProductions wrote:
I'll also add. despite my preference for the 3rd-7th paradigm, powers were RANDOM then.

You mean 4th-7th. In 3rd Powers were either already assigned or purchased with points. The only random powers were Minor Powers.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

VladimirHerzog wrote:

i'm more talking about a system like AoS, where psykers have innate spells AND can pick from the faction spell list

They haven't explicitly said no, but all indications are NO.

**Tyran**

Platuan4th wrote:
JNAProductions wrote:
I'll also add. despite my preference for the 3rd-7th paradigm, powers were RANDOM then.

You mean 4th-7th. In 3rd Powers were either already assigned or purchased with points. The only random powers were Minor Powers.

Random powers was only a 6th-7th thing (alongside random warlord traits).

I remember buying powers in 5th.

**Spoletta**

ERJAK wrote:

Fate dice have been miracle dice 2.0 since they came out and I hate them.

Actually look at those 2 mechanics:

Eldar get 12 free dice over the course of a game. Sisters get 10.
Eldar get all 12 at the beginning, sisters get 1. A turn 1 dice has several times the value of a turn 3 dice.
Eldar get 2 'free' rerolls of all of their dice before they even get down to the number of dice sisters are going to have after turn 5.
Eldar get a cheap HQ that lets them turn dice into 6s. Sisters get a big, stupid, expensive special character.
Eldar get shooting weapons that can actually USE their dice for something other than the wound roll.
Eldar get to generate dice from objectives the same as Sisters do, just with a better unit.

This actually made my day, so thank you for posting it.
You just demonstrated that you believe that sisters are hugely OP in the new edition, since in your scenario they managed to go 5 turns without ever losing a single unit!
Sorry gals! No martyrdom chants today! Better luck next time!

On a more serious note, you should take a good breath, relax and come back at these rules with a cooler mind.
You will notice that anyone without a serious bias can easily see which of these 2 rules is set to be the strongest one. Spoiler, it isn't the xeno one. If I had a collection of pointy ears, I would be mad at how bad strands of fate is compared to miracle dices.
And you can bet that we have characters which can modify those dices. What else do you expect Dialogi to do?

**Dysartes**

bullyboy wrote:
Interesting that the article didn’t even say a word about Harlequins.

Nor Corsairs, and the only mention of the Ynnari was in the fiction section.

**Tsagualsa**

Dysartes wrote:
bullyboy wrote:
Interesting that the article didn’t even say a word about Harlequins.

Nor Corsairs, and the only mention of the Ynnari was in the fiction section.

I'm still guessing they put the cards for these Fractions into the Drukhari card pack, as otherwise that would have literally 1/3 to 1/4 as many cards in it as the Aeldari pack.

**Dudeface**

ERJAK wrote:

meanwhile multimeltas were apparently so scary that they had to lose 6" of range.

Yes, multimeltas were for a good chunk of 9th a problem. They defined early 9th, they were the AT weapon of choice wherever you got them.

**Voss**

bullyboy wrote:
Interesting that the article didn’t even say a word about Harlequins.

Is it interesting? It mentioned aspect warriors exactly once, and didn't mention wraith constructs, jet bikes or the Avatar either.
These teasers are very focused and haven't touched on 90+% of any army.