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 Daedalus81 wrote:

I still miss Haemonculi getting to use Hexrifles.

Same.

 VladimirHerzog wrote:


the state of drukhari in 9th made me not play them, heavily considering selling them off at this point sadly, its just such a flavorless army now

Yeah, for all that I've complained about DE over the years, I've still played them and tried to make the best of their lack of options, perpetually flavourless rules, dull HQs, and lack of any support.

However, this has crossed the line into just being plain not fun. There's nothing left for me to work with. I can't look to Ynnari or Harlequins for alternative rules because both have been completely gutted.



On the plus side, Necrons look like they have at at least been allowed to keep a few of their intestines.- including a few items of actual wargear. Remember that? When models could take items that weren't just different weapons?

Of course, there's still some plenty of arse to be found. Destroyer Lords are melee units that are only permitted to join ranged units. Because I guess a Destroyer unit joining any of the melee Destroyer units is just unthinkable?

Also, the character rules seem increasingly weird. Why does a character's Resurrection Orb completely cease to function when he's not leading a unit?

It really is bizarre.

Wyches lost C&A and their special weapons.

Banshees keep C&A (and can fall back and charge!), ASF plus S4 AP-3 swords. Their squad leader has three different melee options.

Even Harlequins seem to have lost across the board C&A…but marines with the right army or detachment rule* can let their whole army of heavy infantry, tanks and dreads do it? 😂

No, I still don’t know which is which.

 vipoid wrote:


Of course, there's still some plenty of arse to be found. Destroyer Lords are melee units that are only permitted to join ranged units. Because I guess a Destroyer unit joining any of the melee Destroyer units is just unthinkable?

You don't understand how the big brains at GW think. There might be an unintended consequence of letting Locust Lords be seen with range Destroyers or Wraith body Destroyers!

The lokhust lord doesn't go with the melee destroyers because the skorpekh lord goes with them. Calling it a "melee unit" is a stretch too given that it has a staff of light and it's ability only buffs ranged attacks.

It amazes me how GW took one of their greatest updates to a line, the 5th edition revamp of the Dark Eldar, and has progressively stamped on it with each subsequent edition.

It's like they are mad that people actually liked the new Dark Eldar and are determined to punish people for it.

 Arachnofiend wrote:
The lokhust lord doesn't go with the melee destroyers because the skorpekh lord goes with them. Calling it a "melee unit" is a stretch too given that it has a staff of light and it's ability only buffs ranged attacks.

You'd have a point if it wasn't for the fact it can take a Warscythe and has been used for melee for YEARS.

It was used for melee because the skorpekh models didn't exist yet. I really do not think separating the two out is a problem. I'm sorry that the necron index is so good you have to stretch this far to find things to complain about.

 Arachnofiend wrote:
The lokhust lord doesn't go with the melee destroyers because the skorpekh lord goes with them.

If this is the level of nonsense we're dealing with then a SM Lieutenant shouldn't be able to join any unit that a Captain can join.

And to add insult to the injury for ork players
tank bustas bombs are also a thing of the past!


They trashed the entry for the actual tank bustas,
and also removed the wargear after stupidly
made it a stratagem in V9.

Kommandos models have them,
Tank bustas modelshave them,
Ork boyz (the real kit) models have them...

But they still find a way to trash it.
I just find this annoying.

mortar_crew wrote:
And to add insult to the injury for ork players
tank bustas bombs are also a thing of the past!


They trashed the entry for the actual tank bustas,
and also removed the wargear after stupidly
made it a stratagem in V9.

Kommandos models have them,
Tank bustas modelshave them,
Ork boyz (the real kit) models have them...

But they still find a way to trash it.
I just find this annoying.

And, given that we have multiple armies with Armory Cards, it would be really, really easy to add rules for Frag Grenades, Krak Grenades, Stikkbombs, Tankbusta Bombs, etc. Heck, it would make more sense to have a core stratagem for meltabombs/tankbusta bombs than for 'every grenade under the sun'.

Grenades haven't been this dumb since 3rd, when they forced an opponent in cover to not fight first (keep your head down) but otherwise did nothing.

 Arachnofiend wrote:
It was used for melee because the skorpekh models didn't exist yet.

It was used in melee because it did a good job, not because the other Destroyer Lord didn't exist. What timeline do you live in?

 Sotahullu wrote:
Well one thing that surprised me was that Heat Lance got buffed, a lot. Str 14.

Yeah, I was wondering about that.
I assume whoever wrote the dark elf cards missed the meeting about melta weapons having S9.

 vipoid wrote:

 Arachnofiend wrote:
The lokhust lord doesn't go with the melee destroyers because the skorpekh lord goes with them.

If this is the level of nonsense we're dealing with then a SM Lieutenant shouldn't be able to join any unit that a Captain can join.

Huh?

I'm still forming my opinion about the new Drukhari rules, but I admit that the Heat Lance stats are a pleasant surprise. I like the guns, it's great they seem to be a very effective AT option.

Well, points tomorrow, that's another fundamental factor.

Btw, what do you guys think about the Troupe Master melee weapons? Is that seriously intended, or one of the many minor errors they'll hopefully fix soon-ish?

 SarisKhan wrote:
Btw, what do you guys think about the Troupe Master melee weapons? Is that seriously intended, or one of the many minor errors they'll hopefully fix soon-ish?

Makes no sense at all. Timeline on a fix for stuff like this is probably a number of weeks at least.

They "simplified" things this edition and "reduced the lethality" but they did it so badly, inconsistently, and with so many new issues that it seems on first pass to be a sidegrade at best. Some of the changes, well outlined by other posters, are just baffling. And I can easily see the dev team looking at the complaints and saying "looks like the consumers just aren't happy nomatter what we do" without a shred of understanding as to what's going on.

I usually don't criticize this company, but their decision to needlessly simplify some units (tyranid warriors spring to mind) despite the absolute glut of special rules (every guard tank needs a special rule for us to remember on it's datasheet? really?) is maddening. Combining a ton of universally known and intuitive versions of combiweapons into one nonsensical profile and then handing out different rules for different versions of the same weapon based on who is holding it... they're working at cross purposes with themselves.

I just can't with these people

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 SarisKhan wrote:
Btw, what do you guys think about the Troupe Master melee weapons? Is that seriously intended, or one of the many minor errors they'll hopefully fix soon-ish?

Makes no sense at all. Timeline on a fix for stuff like this is probably a number of weeks at least.

I guess people could increase the chances of quick fixes happening vastly by collecting all the issues in one place, organizing them in categories like clear typos/omissions/errors, ambiguities and power issues, and then sending that collated list to GW. Complaining on forums makes more people aware, but does not really do anything beyond that.

Zachectomy wrote:

I usually don't criticize this company, but their decision to needlessly simplify some units (tyranid warriors spring to mind) despite the absolute glut of special rules (every guard tank needs a special rule for us to remember on it's datasheet? really?) is maddening.

Yeah, I don't think every unit needed a special rule either. Most of what makes a unit effective/ ineffective in a role should be determined by it's characteristics and weaponry. Only special units need special rules. I'm hoping that the majority of rules will stick in my head after a few games or battle reports.

Tsagualsa wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 SarisKhan wrote:
Btw, what do you guys think about the Troupe Master melee weapons? Is that seriously intended, or one of the many minor errors they'll hopefully fix soon-ish?

Makes no sense at all. Timeline on a fix for stuff like this is probably a number of weeks at least.

I guess people could increase the chances of quick fixes happening vastly by collecting all the issues in one place, organizing them in categories like clear typos/omissions/errors, ambiguities and power issues, and then sending that collated list to GW. Complaining on forums makes more people aware, but does not really do anything beyond that.

Good call. I'll make a post.

Do people really not know why a melee character would go into a ranged unit? Like I get it's not obvious, but melee counterpunch protecting a ranged unit seems like one of those things experienced players should understand...

 cole1114 wrote:
Do people really not know why a melee character would go into a ranged unit? Like I get it's not obvious, but melee counterpunch protecting a ranged unit seems like one of those things experienced players should understand...

While I like the TAC nature of that, for most of 40k history, the best path to victory was not a well balanced list, but taking highly efficient hyper specialist units, get them to do what they do best, and ride that to the win.

 Nevelon wrote:

 cole1114 wrote:
Do people really not know why a melee character would go into a ranged unit? Like I get it's not obvious, but melee counterpunch protecting a ranged unit seems like one of those things experienced players should understand...

While I like the TAC nature of that, for most of 40k history, the best path to victory was not a well balanced list, but taking highly efficient hyper specialist units, get them to do what they do best, and ride that to the win.

Okay, but Locust Lords have been a melee unit THE WHOLE GODDAMN TIME. Now it can't even attach to the wraith looking Destroyers.

chaos0xomega wrote:
-Deff Dreds, Sagitaurs, Voidweavers, War Walkers, Vypers, Ork Buggies, etc. are all unit size of 1 model now, Achilles Ridgerunners, Cronos and Talos are 1-2 models, Penitent Engines and Mortifiers are units of 2 models (RIP anyone that had purchased max allowance of either), a number of other units have also seen unit sizes cut (Boyz and Grots top out at 20 models instead of 30, Skitarii in units of 10 rather than 20), while other units seemingly arbitrarily stayed the same (Sentinels of both varieties for example can be fielded in units of 1-3 models, Killa Kans in units of up to 6) or increased (Guard squads can be fielded in counts of up to 20 models).

Box-based unit restrictions are to 10th what sprue-based weapon restrictions were to 9th.

It's not consistent (nothing GW does is consistent), but it's a much bigger thing than it was. Look at Tankbustas, Vespid, Carnifexes, Spawn, and so on.

Well, my Squat horde army is dead. I was excited when they're stats dropped, as that means lower points and more bodies.

However, unit size went from 5-20 to a fixed unit of 10. So, max of 60 Hearthkyn at lower points.

Have we been given confirmation on how to actually build our list yet?

Could I go BA and just run a bunch of different dreads(3max of each different type)? Lib dread to cover the HQ need?

Or nids with like Old One Eye, 3x2 Carnifex and 3 Screamer Killers?

 Rogzor87 wrote:
Have we been given confirmation on how to actually build our list yet?

Could I go BA and just run a bunch of different dreads(3max of each different type)? Lib dread to cover the HQ need?

Or nids with like Old One Eye, 3x2 Carnifex and 3 Screamer Killers?

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/03/30/how-army-building-works-in-the-new-edition-of-warhammer-40000/

It was one of the first things they showed off. There's no such thing as an HQ, but you do need a Character.

 Rogzor87 wrote:
Have we been given confirmation on how to actually build our list yet?

Could I go BA and just run a bunch of different dreads(3max of each different type)? Lib dread to cover the HQ need?

Or nids with like Old One Eye, 3x2 Carnifex and 3 Screamer Killers?

Unfortunately, Librarian Dreadnoughts don't have the Character keyword for the mandatory Character slot. Anyone hoping for a pure Dreadnought list will either have to rely on Legends (and hope that's got us covered with Chaplain Dreadnoughts) or use Space Wolves for Bjorn.

 cuda1179 wrote:
Well, my Squat horde army is dead. I was excited when they're stats dropped, as that means lower points and more bodies.

However, unit size went from 5-20 to a fixed unit of 10. So, max of 60 Hearthkyn at lower points.

That is hardly the worst thing to happen to the Leagues in 10th. They got done dirty, like real bad. Of course, if most of their stuff got cheaper it could still be okay, we'll know tomorrow. I would think GW would want Votann to be good, given that they are a brand new range and all, but sadly they capitulated to the whiny manbabies and nerfed them into the ground over and over and over again. The first nerf was admittedly deserved; everyone with any experience in 40k could tell that book was busted as hell, but then GW decided to keep hitting them, punishing them for the sins they never got to commit.

 Platuan4th wrote:


https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/03/30/how-army-building-works-in-the-new-edition-of-warhammer-40000/

It was one of the first things they showed off. There's no such thing as an HQ, but you do need a Character.

Yeah I just wasn't sure if they were going to add more stipulations in to prevent people from just fielding all vehicles, walkers, monsters. Like somehow combining the X amount of Dreadnought data sheets so you couldn't do 3 venerable, 3 ironclad, 3 primaris, 3 contemptor, 3 furioso and so on with the rest.

Those will drop in 6 months because "no one could have foreseen this."