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EldarExarch wrote:
Someone built an Admech army that literally kills itself turn one without any interaction from the opponent.

Tight ruleset.

How so?

 Platuan4th wrote:
Yeah, it's less "Army that kills itself" and more "player actively chooses not to play game".

But that isn't as fun to post about!

 MalusCalibur wrote:
I've said it before, and I'll say it again and again until the heat death of the universe: Stop giving GW money for this total hogwash masquerading as a ruleset. Stop accepting mediocrity from a company so profitable they have no excuse for this level of laziness and contempt for the players. Stop assuming that because you already have the GW models you have to play the GW game, when there are a significant number of similar games that are manufacturer agnostic. Things will never improve if you let GW get away with treating you like an idiot.

Come and play OPR, we have actual points *and* options...

As someone who monetarily supports OPR, shut the feth up.

Charax wrote:

 Miguelsan wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
I just saw someone post a list that was Azrael and 21 space marine captains (from 7 different datasheets)

I need to see the details. Please link.

M.

Lemme see if I can do this:

Azreal - 120pts
3x Primaris Captain - 240pts
3x Firstborn Captain - 240pts
3x Gravis Captain - 285pts
3x Phobos Captain - 240pts
3x Terminator Captain - 285pts
3x Bike Captain - 285pts
3x Jump Pack Captain - 300pts

1995 points, 22 models, and that's not even counting DA-specific Captain-equivalents

Looks like a fun “movie marines” list. Doubt it’s particularly effective though.

Tsagualsa wrote:

EldarExarch wrote:
Someone built an Admech army that literally kills itself turn one without any interaction from the opponent.

Tight ruleset.

How so?

By playing rulebook scenario, putting army into deep strike, wait till game ends.

Any army can do that. If nothing else take 500pts only(notqing says you have to use as much as possible), put to strategic reserve, wait.

Works only in rulebook mission that doesn't require half units on board as minimum.


Incidentally same trick was possible in 8th and 9th...

 Platuan4th wrote:

 MalusCalibur wrote:
I've said it before, and I'll say it again and again until the heat death of the universe: Stop giving GW money for this total hogwash masquerading as a ruleset. Stop accepting mediocrity from a company so profitable they have no excuse for this level of laziness and contempt for the players. Stop assuming that because you already have the GW models you have to play the GW game, when there are a significant number of similar games that are manufacturer agnostic. Things will never improve if you let GW get away with treating you like an idiot.

Come and play OPR, we have actual points *and* options...

As someone who monetarily supports OPR, shut the feth up.

why?

for the current mess of that game, until the majority of factions have their Codex there is no good reason to play Indexhammer instead of Grimdark Future

For you maybe. Of course you aren't authority on how people enjoy their time.

 MalusCalibur wrote:
I've said it before, and I'll say it again and again until the heat death of the universe: Stop giving GW money for this total hogwash masquerading as a ruleset. Stop accepting mediocrity from a company so profitable they have no excuse for this level of laziness and contempt for the players. Stop assuming that because you already have the GW models you have to play the GW game, when there are a significant number of similar games that are manufacturer agnostic. Things will never improve if you let GW get away with treating you like an idiot.

Come and play OPR, we have actual points *and* options...

Mm… nah.

 kodos wrote:

 Platuan4th wrote:

 MalusCalibur wrote:
I've said it before, and I'll say it again and again until the heat death of the universe: Stop giving GW money for this total hogwash masquerading as a ruleset. Stop accepting mediocrity from a company so profitable they have no excuse for this level of laziness and contempt for the players. Stop assuming that because you already have the GW models you have to play the GW game, when there are a significant number of similar games that are manufacturer agnostic. Things will never improve if you let GW get away with treating you like an idiot.

Come and play OPR, we have actual points *and* options...

As someone who monetarily supports OPR, shut the feth up.

why?

for the current mess of that game, until the majority of factions have their Codex there is no good reason to play Indexhammer instead of Grimdark Future

Because it's nobody's business to tell others how to value their time and money or what they consider quality and that mindset and doing that actively drives people away from the product you're presenting as an alternative. It's part of why The 9th Age split the community rather than took it over, it's part of why people actively resist Mantic, etc. It's a terrible post and a terrible attitude

 MalusCalibur wrote:
I've said it before, and I'll say it again and again until the heat death of the universe: Stop giving GW money for this total hogwash masquerading as a ruleset. Stop accepting mediocrity from a company so profitable they have no excuse for this level of laziness and contempt for the players. Stop assuming that because you already have the GW models you have to play the GW game, when there are a significant number of similar games that are manufacturer agnostic. Things will never improve if you let GW get away with treating you like an idiot.

Come and play OPR, we have actual points *and* options...

They hated him because he spoke the truth.

Trying to convince people to hate what they like and like what you like instead will Never win people over to your game. It will only drive them away.

 kodos wrote:

 Platuan4th wrote:

 MalusCalibur wrote:
I've said it before, and I'll say it again and again until the heat death of the universe: Stop giving GW money for this total hogwash masquerading as a ruleset. Stop accepting mediocrity from a company so profitable they have no excuse for this level of laziness and contempt for the players. Stop assuming that because you already have the GW models you have to play the GW game, when there are a significant number of similar games that are manufacturer agnostic. Things will never improve if you let GW get away with treating you like an idiot.

Come and play OPR, we have actual points *and* options...

As someone who monetarily supports OPR, shut the feth up.

why?

for the current mess of that game, until the majority of factions have their Codex there is no good reason to play Indexhammer instead of Grimdark Future

Because people that can't stop gaking in the thread and hawking their system of choice every day come of like sleazy car salesmen, or at least as needy. It's just offputting to a lot of people, and smells of something between bitterness, buyer's remorse and schadenfreude. Everybody knows that there are a wealth of different systems available, no need to point it out at every conceivalbe opportunity and ad nauseam. If you actually want people to check out things you find awesome, make a good thread about how great they are and put a link in your signature, don't try to stir up gak in threads where it's off-topic. There are too many people running around and basically going 'neh-neh neh-neh, i play da betta system' at 40k players that tout how much greater HH2.0/OPR/whatever is, it becomes galling after a point.

 AduroT wrote:
Trying to convince people to hate what they like and like what you like instead will Never win people over to your game. It will only drive them away.

Not my fault you enjoy mediocrity.

 AduroT wrote:
Trying to convince people to hate what they like and like what you like instead will Never win people over to your game. It will only drive them away.

See, Aduro gets it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Grimtuff wrote:

 AduroT wrote:
Trying to convince people to hate what they like and like what you like instead will Never win people over to your game. It will only drive them away.

Not my fault you enjoy mediocrity.

Not our fault you mistake your subjective opinion for fact.

 Platuan4th wrote:

Because it's nobody's business to tell others how to value their time and money or what they consider quality and that mindset and doing that actively drives people away from the product you're presenting as an alternative. It's part of why The 9th Age split the community rather than took it over, it's part of why people actively resist Mantic, etc. It's a terrible post and a terrible attitude

so telling nobody that something else exists and they should all find out on their own how to handle that situation
yeah, I see how this works out with people complaining about how bad the situation is and with the conclusion that there are no other games to play so must make the best of it by buying a new army

specially as OPR is just a different ruleset for 40k, no one is losing anything they like by playing 40k with OPR rules
except those that like Powerlevel and alternate player turns with bad balanced indices

 kodos wrote:

 Platuan4th wrote:

Because it's nobody's business to tell others how to value their time and money or what they consider quality and that mindset and doing that actively drives people away from the product you're presenting as an alternative. It's part of why The 9th Age split the community rather than took it over, it's part of why people actively resist Mantic, etc. It's a terrible post and a terrible attitude

so telling nobody that something else exists and they should all find out on their own how to handle that situation

yeah, I see how this works out with people complaining about how bad the situation is and with the conclusion that there are no other games to play so must make the best of it by buying a new army

Not what I said, and you know it. It's HOW they went about doing it and you know it. Stop being deliberately obtuse.

Deleted. I caught up and now I understand the replies.

 Platuan4th wrote:

 kodos wrote:

 Platuan4th wrote:

Because it's nobody's business to tell others how to value their time and money or what they consider quality and that mindset and doing that actively drives people away from the product you're presenting as an alternative. It's part of why The 9th Age split the community rather than took it over, it's part of why people actively resist Mantic, etc. It's a terrible post and a terrible attitude

so telling nobody that something else exists and they should all find out on their own how to handle that situation

yeah, I see how this works out with people complaining about how bad the situation is and with the conclusion that there are no other games to play so must make the best of it by buying a new army

Not what I said, and you know it. It's HOW they went about doing it and you know it.

I don't think it benefits anyone to follow this discussion further, not much sense in debating people that refuse to engage in good faith.

 kodos wrote:

 Platuan4th wrote:

Because it's nobody's business to tell others how to value their time and money or what they consider quality and that mindset and doing that actively drives people away from the product you're presenting as an alternative. It's part of why The 9th Age split the community rather than took it over, it's part of why people actively resist Mantic, etc. It's a terrible post and a terrible attitude

so telling nobody that something else exists and they should all find out on their own how to handle that situation

yeah, I see how this works out with people complaining about how bad the situation is and with the conclusion that there are no other games to play so must make the best of it by buying a new army

Your opinion is just stupid. Seriously, only true idiots would ever value an opinion as poorly thought out as this. You need to come over and value my clearly superior opinion. It’s just plain better than your dumb opinion for dummies. Why anyone would value your wretched thoughts is a true mystery when my opinion is the only correct one.

 Grimtuff wrote:

 AduroT wrote:
Trying to convince people to hate what they like and like what you like instead will Never win people over to your game. It will only drive them away.

Not my fault you enjoy mediocrity.

Or your superiority isn't as superior as you think.

Certainly you are very bad salesman for your game doing more harm than good.

 AduroT wrote:
Your opinion is just stupid. Seriously, only true idiots would ever value an opinion as poorly thought out as this. You need to come over and value my clearly superior opinion. It’s just plain better than your dumb opinion for dummies. Why anyone would value your wretched thoughts is a true mystery when my opinion is the only correct one.

I can clearly see we things as people don't want a solution but just complain while to continue with it
so the true mystery is, why complain and call something bad, if you don't want it to change or are happy with it?

could also tell everyone else here to shut up

Charax wrote:

 Miguelsan wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
I just saw someone post a list that was Azrael and 21 space marine captains (from 7 different datasheets)

I need to see the details. Please link.

M.

Lemme see if I can do this:

Azreal - 120pts
3x Primaris Captain - 240pts
3x Firstborn Captain - 240pts
3x Gravis Captain - 285pts
3x Phobos Captain - 240pts
3x Terminator Captain - 285pts
3x Bike Captain - 285pts
3x Jump Pack Captain - 300pts

1995 points, 22 models, and that's not even counting DA-specific Captain-equivalents

I thought there was a limit of characters or is that not a thing ?

 Mr Morden wrote:

Charax wrote:

 Miguelsan wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
I just saw someone post a list that was Azrael and 21 space marine captains (from 7 different datasheets)

I need to see the details. Please link.

M.

Lemme see if I can do this:

Azreal - 120pts
3x Primaris Captain - 240pts
3x Firstborn Captain - 240pts
3x Gravis Captain - 285pts
3x Phobos Captain - 240pts
3x Terminator Captain - 285pts
3x Bike Captain - 285pts
3x Jump Pack Captain - 300pts

1995 points, 22 models, and that's not even counting DA-specific Captain-equivalents

I thought there was a limit of characters or is that not a thing ?

For Epic Characters, not for regular ones.

 Overread wrote:
Most of us here have been through this dance before, many times. GW will change things; it will get balance wrong; they will make some mistakes that are just mindbreakingly baffling how they managed to do it; they will change things just because they can.

Most of us have adopted strategies to cope - using house rules; using magnets on optional weapon parts; collecting more models etc.

Exactly! Also GW Game rules come a go so fast these days that by the time the complaining dusts have settled, it's the 11th!

 Mr Morden wrote:

Charax wrote:

 Miguelsan wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
I just saw someone post a list that was Azrael and 21 space marine captains (from 7 different datasheets)

I need to see the details. Please link.

M.

Lemme see if I can do this:

Azreal - 120pts
3x Primaris Captain - 240pts
3x Firstborn Captain - 240pts
3x Gravis Captain - 285pts
3x Phobos Captain - 240pts
3x Terminator Captain - 285pts
3x Bike Captain - 285pts
3x Jump Pack Captain - 300pts

1995 points, 22 models, and that's not even counting DA-specific Captain-equivalents

I thought there was a limit of characters or is that not a thing ?

There is a limit for Datasheets (max 3 of each), one for Epic Heros (max 1 of each) and a stipulation that you need at least one character in your army, but characters in total are not limited. And since SM have dozens of characters with minimally different datasheets, nonsense like the above is possible. In fact, it has been anticipated somewhat, as for example the 'One free Stratagem per battleround' skill most SM captains share is limited to one activation per battleround, not one per Captain.

 Mr Morden wrote:

I thought there was a limit of characters or is that not a thing ?

Must have 1, not more than 3 of each datasheet, only one of each Epic Hero. That's it.

It's definitely going to be a terrible list, but not entirely useless. 22 single-model units are going to make hiding pretty easy, and in a 2k army your opponent is going to have to prioritise their targets.

A lot of their abilities do still activate, although it will probably need an FAQ to see how many times Rites of Battle can be activated each turn (the army has 21 models with the ability, so you probably just won't need any CP, even though you'll get an additional one from Azreal)

Severe lack of anything capable of capping/holding objectives will mean you almost always lose, but you can pull some weird stuff like charging all 3 Firstborn captains into a unit and activating Finest Hour on all of them to turn them into blenders

Honestly if you cut it down to 500pts (6ish models?) I'd play a Herohammer force in a Boarding Action, might be fun

Oh of course I should have expected Marines to be able to ignore the rules through sheer weight of numbers - silly me.

Is Gw just trying to make 40k like 30K so just Marine on Marine action - I mean obviously us Marine players need two entire miniature ranges.......

 kodos wrote:

 AduroT wrote:
Your opinion is just stupid. Seriously, only true idiots would ever value an opinion as poorly thought out as this. You need to come over and value my clearly superior opinion. It’s just plain better than your dumb opinion for dummies. Why anyone would value your wretched thoughts is a true mystery when my opinion is the only correct one.

I can clearly see we things as people don't want a solution but just complain while to continue with it
so the true mystery is, why complain and call something bad, if you don't want it to change or are happy with it?

could also tell everyone else here to shut up

Telling someone the thing they like is garbage and to abandon it and come do the thing you like instead is Not Constructive. If that is all a person is going to do, then yes, I do think they need to just shut up. If you want to be constructive with suggestions how to fix things, or even just say hey if you’re mad at this as well come try this other thing and see if you like it, that’s Far more helpful. But again, just telling people they have mediocre opinions will win no one to your side. As it is I have no idea why I’d Want to try OPR if the player base is this toxic.

I'll give OPR another look when they actually have official Dwarf Guilds models. 'Light infantry', please, and not the power armor dwarf aesthetic.

Charax wrote:

A lot of their abilities do still activate, although it will probably need an FAQ to see how many times Rites of Battle can be activated each turn (the army has 21 models with the ability, so you probably just won't need any CP, even though you'll get an additional one from Azreal)

Nah, Rites of Battle is pretty explicit about it:

Rites of Battle: Once per battle round, one unit from your
army with this ability can be targeted by a Stratagem for
0CP, even if another unit from your army has already been
targeted by that Stratagem this phase.

Note that it is Once per battle round ... one unit with this ability, not a unit with this ability