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pleasestopit wrote:

Aecus Decimus wrote:

pleasestopit wrote:
This is exactly why people should be vocal about their concerns especially in cases of scummy practices like these.

What exactly is scummy about price increases that are less than inflation? Is there something genuinely unethical here, beyond "I want my toys to be cheaper and anything that is inconvenient for me is scummy"?

Furthermore don't bring ah but this is a cheap hobby into the equation, it is an insincere false-argument. At this rate if I build functional space craft as a hobby then most hobbies are cheap... hurr durr... gotcha dude, I justified your skewed value-perception.

Yeah, because building amateur spacecraft is totally comparable to going out drinking on the weekend or buying a new gaming PC, things which are more expensive than playing 40k.

And at the rate this is going as you defend the price hike as a consumer you will be alone playing with your very expensive toys for your very expensive hobby.

People have been saying this for decades and it still hasn't happened.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 endlesswaltz123 wrote:
If anything, a price drop would probably be better for them in terms of revenue and overall profit.

That depends on the state of the market. If GW thinks they've already reached the point of converting most potential customers into actual customers (IOW, the majority of non-customers just don't like 40k for whatever reason) then a price cut would have little effect on sales volume. Most people who buy only the things they're going to immediately use probably won't buy much more than they already do because they're constrained more by time than money and the kids buying 1-2 boxes a year with their birthday money won't be able to increase their purchase volume without a massive price drop. GW would need to get most of that growth in volume from whales who already have 4-5 figure piles of shame and how many of those are there?

But this is all just speculation of course. The people who get paid well to manage hundreds of millions in annual business have looked at the data and concluded that the best way to increase total profit is by per-box profit, not by volume.

Anyway, it is greed.

If it was greed and the market research supported your theory they'd absolutely cut prices to make more money per year.

You clearly are a loony, but if you really want me to extrapolate any proof,logic or in-your-face evidence to support what I said you have to pay me as I will not waste time just for you to cover your "ears" and go LA-LA-LA nu-uh. I really frown upon dealing with people of your fanatical beliefs that take it upon themselves to defend a company for no reason except "i hope she sees this bruh".

But here, have some stinky cheese ... did GW also increase their worker's pay with this new plastic price hike ? Or are their workers exempt of "inflation" costs and they have no increased overhead costs to deal with?

We don’t know, is the short answer. Such things aren’t typically public knowledge.

Might be in their annual report though. That is public.

I switched to 3 d printing last year when they hicked prices. It was kinda rough at first learning how to use it and I more or less wasted a full jug or resin.

Just tinkering here and their I now have it down great saturn 8k resin printer.

I only wish I had found it earlier. Really if you haven't tried 3d printing and you think it's hard to get into it is realy not if I can do it so can you. As a bonus I have been printing minis for use in 40k and just stuff I like. Lots of free sculpts out their plenty that, no joke look better than 40k sculptors.
I do check in and I will say that I would buy somthing if it blew me away (am hoping the soon to arrive lion falls into this catagory) but overall 3d printing really is the future once you have used one and gotten decent with it you can't go back.

How soon before we see retail lists showing the new price structure?

I know GW says it's an average of 6% on plastic and resin kits but in the past some price rises were not equal across the board. Some kits increased more than others percentage wise. Some even got rounded up into the next price band

pleasestopit wrote:
You clearly are a loony, but if you really want me to extrapolate any proof,logic or in-your-face evidence to support what I said you have to pay me as I will not waste time just for you to cover your "ears" and go LA-LA-LA nu-uh. I really frown upon dealing with people of your fanatical beliefs that take it upon themselves to defend a company for no reason except "i hope she sees this bruh".

This is the perfect example of a polite and well-reasoned argument that should be persuasive to anyone who reads it.

/s, since I know you won't get it otherwise.

But here, have some stinky cheese ... did GW also increase their worker's pay with this new plastic price hike ? Or are their workers exempt of "inflation" costs and they have no increased overhead costs to deal with?

Why does it matter if GW increased pay? GW is a for-profit business, not a charity.

It does matter though.

On a purely personal note? Where I work has posted record results in 2020, 2021 and 2022. In those years, I got a 2% payrise, a 0% payrise, and another 2% payrise.

To know our numbers and quality are up, but I get an effective pay cut, year on year, doesn’t just suck, it pees me right off. And we’re not something General Public pays for - we’re free to them.

I’ve personally no issue with GW increasing prices. Like any luxury, I either want it and can afford it, or I don’t buy it. But they’re not treating their staff fairly, that’s pretty scummy.

But as I said, we don’t know unless it’s in annual reports, or someone posts verifiable info in that regard.

Disappointing, but not unexpected.

EviscerationPlague wrote:

 Polonius wrote:

 Albertorius wrote:

 Polonius wrote:
It's weird people bring up board games and video games all the time when talking about GW prices. I mean, I guess it makes some sense, because they're both games, but GW isn't just an expensive game, it's an expensive game with highly detailed plastic kits.

So are gunpla kits. And a whole lotta boardgames nowadays. And still...

Yeah, anybody serious about boardgames is probably spending as much as a GW fanboi per year, and not even playing half the games.

Source: dude, trust me

Kickstarter

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
It does matter though.

On a purely personal note? Where I work has posted record results in 2020, 2021 and 2022. In those years, I got a 2% payrise, a 0% payrise, and another 2% payrise.

To know our numbers and quality are up, but I get an effective pay cut, year on year, doesn’t just suck, it pees me right off. And we’re not something General Public pays for - we’re free to them.

I’ve personally no issue with GW increasing prices. Like any luxury, I either want it and can afford it, or I don’t buy it. But they’re not treating their staff fairly, that’s pretty scummy.

But as I said, we don’t know unless it’s in annual reports, or someone posts verifiable info in that regard.

In short, yes they did:

We are committed to ensuring that all staff are paid fairly for the job they perform and to rewarding our staff for their considerable contribution. We always manage the business for the long term and aim to get the right mix of annual pay rises and variable cash rewards. From June we paid a standard 3% pay rise, with some staff receiving a pay rise of up to 10% to benchmark their pay to market rates. We share our success with our staff too via the group profit share scheme.
In line with our group profit share scheme, payments in cash to staff are £4.5 million (2021: £6.9 million). Total dividends declared in the period reported were 165 pence per share, £54.2 million (2021: 100 pence per share, £32.8 million).

Personal trivia for pay reviews where I am which is a fairly large software firm, similar story, profits up year on year. No pay review for anyone 2021, 2022 it was 2% on average but I was intentionally excluded due to a promotion the year before, this year we had a waffley message about how it'll only be the bottom earners without any definition about that but the idea of a 1% company wide raise made them baulk so likely nothing for me this year. This seems fairly normal in the UK for large corporations atm.

 Albertorius wrote:

 Galas wrote:
6% increase after last year 5% prince increase with profits trought the roof.

Ok. Lovely lookin at those Ogre Infantry going from 32,50€ to 42,50€ and now 45€ in the span of 4 years.

What, you expected already amortized sprues (many, many times over) not to go up in price? C'mon, be serious.

If you don't want to see prices out better leave western countries and similar(japan etc). Our economic system is built on everything going up steadily and if not basically economy stalls, people get laid off, companies go bust and end of the world near.

 Overread wrote:
Honestly I think we need to start collecting these threads. A mandate that we must link back to the previous years of "price rise" to remind ourselves that we've said it all before - mostly around this same time of year too.

Yeah, I've seen this stuff since the mid-1990s on Usenet, and it all still reads the same. Would be fun to see a slideshow of GW price rant quotes from the last 25 years as a line graph in the background shows GW's revenue growth. With "Do You Hear The People Sing" playing as background music.

Basic infantry squads just hit triple digits in Australia, so this "price rise" is confusing.

GW raises the prices all the time. This is a price rise on top of a price rise.

 kodos wrote:

Dudeface wrote:
As an adult the idea is you do what you enjoy and either you afford it or you don't. It shouldn't require justification, just do what makes you happy.

than why do people come up with "GW is still cheaper than other adult hobbies" in price discussion topic if it is not to justify the GW price?

It's a way of saying "it's still affordable for loads of us" without sounding so mercenary or exclusionary. It's not about justifying the price, it's *in response* to the doom-mongering that GW are going to kill themselves as the market can't sustain it, every time there's a price increase. It's pointing out there are plenty of industries around far more expensive hobbies that are doing *just fine*.

It's not a moral argument, it's not about what's right or wrong (and it's sad to see so many kids priced out and super-long-term that's going to be very bad, but that's 20 years down the line) - it's about if they can continue to sell at that price, which they can, because most of their audience already has the disposable income and can cope with annual price increases.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Basic infantry squads just hit triple digits in Australia, so this "price rise" is confusing.

GW raises the prices all the time. This is a price rise on top of a price rise.

Exactly. Which is why I'm hoping we see a retail list of the new price increases soon. To help clarify and to plan any immediate purchases.

 Polonius wrote:

 Albertorius wrote:

 Polonius wrote:
It's weird people bring up board games and video games all the time when talking about GW prices. I mean, I guess it makes some sense, because they're both games, but GW isn't just an expensive game, it's an expensive game with highly detailed plastic kits.

So are gunpla kits. And a whole lotta boardgames nowadays. And still...

Yeah, anybody serious about boardgames is probably spending as much as a GW fanboi per year, and not even playing half the games.

You aren't kidding about that. I'm always surprised to see the stacks of new boardgames people walk out with at PAX Unplugged. And it's not like there aren't ample amounts of boardgame retailers selling boardgames at ample discounts. I know I was never in the habit of dropping a few hundred on merch at every minis event I attended.

Come to think of it, it was like that at the old Games Days too. People would be in line at the registers with stacks of new kits they could have bought or ordered anywhere. It was those moments that were the counterpoints to all the price rants and outrage.

Boosykes wrote:
I switched to 3 d printing last year when they hicked prices. It was kinda rough at first learning how to use it and I more or less wasted a full jug or resin.

Just tinkering here and their I now have it down great saturn 8k resin printer.

I only wish I had found it earlier. Really if you haven't tried 3d printing and you think it's hard to get into it is realy not if I can do it so can you. As a bonus I have been printing minis for use in 40k and just stuff I like. Lots of free sculpts out their plenty that, no joke look better than 40k sculptors.
I do check in and I will say that I would buy somthing if it blew me away (am hoping the soon to arrive lion falls into this catagory) but overall 3d printing really is the future once you have used one and gotten decent with it you can't go back.

Until 3d printers are user friendly enough to effectively plug in, then press print (like a traditional printer) then the up front cost, time and effort getting prints right, is going to put off the majority of people.

It's so much easier and more convenient to buy a box of minis that you know what they look like, and you can return if there is anything wrong with them.

Saying that I do think 3d printing is the future, maybe 5 years away from being more mainstream.

Removed - rule #1

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Basic infantry squads just hit triple digits in Australia, so this "price rise" is confusing.

GW raises the prices all the time. This is a price rise on top of a price rise.

^ Exactly. It's another day that ends in Y. The figures are starting to collect dust on our local markets shelves. It's that issue about price hikes on everything across the board, but not wage.

You should have seen how fast the Horus Heresy crowd died... The Glut on the local shelf was legendary. It was as if the whole group, collectively, said- the hell with it, we're out.

 gorgon wrote:

 Polonius wrote:

 Albertorius wrote:

 Polonius wrote:
It's weird people bring up board games and video games all the time when talking about GW prices. I mean, I guess it makes some sense, because they're both games, but GW isn't just an expensive game, it's an expensive game with highly detailed plastic kits.

So are gunpla kits. And a whole lotta boardgames nowadays. And still...

Yeah, anybody serious about boardgames is probably spending as much as a GW fanboi per year, and not even playing half the games.

You aren't kidding about that. I'm always surprised to see the stacks of new boardgames people walk out with at PAX Unplugged. And it's not like there aren't ample amounts of boardgame retailers selling boardgames at ample discounts. I know I was never in the habit of dropping a few hundred on merch at every minis event I attended.

Come to think of it, it was like that at the old Games Days too. People would be in line at the registers with stacks of new kits they could have bought or ordered anywhere. It was those moments that were the counterpoints to all the price rants and outrage.

Thing is after all it's still hobby spending - 'The Market' is by definition composed of people that can still afford it. That market may shrink or expand a bit depending on how the economy does, but after you've bitten the initial bullet another x% on top are pretty easy to justify...

On top of that, people don't operate in a vacuum - 50€ for a character or 100€ for a patrol box is harsh, but it becomes much less so when you can easily get nearer to 100 than to 50 for going for a couple of beers and a movie with two people, or for a single PC/console game with some DLC. It's high, but it's also still in the same general category where it always was. Crazyland, aka Oceania off course excluded

And a gakky economy and even shittier prospects for young-ish people can have paradoxical effects, too: if you don't even attempt to save up for a house, a car or for going to college anymore because it is no longer financially feasible to even try, you suddenly have a lot of disposable income in your late 20s and early 30s compared to the generations before, and that finds its way into all sorts of crazy whale-ish spending on hobbies and other stuff in that vein. It's a symptom of a general malaise of a lot of western societies, but at the moment it's also a tide that floats a large number of entertainment industry boats that should have sunk a long time ago if it were a normal and healthy situation.

 Grot 6 wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Basic infantry squads just hit triple digits in Australia, so this "price rise" is confusing.

GW raises the prices all the time. This is a price rise on top of a price rise.

^ Exactly. It's another day that ends in Y. The figures are starting to collect dust on our local markets shelves. It's that issue about price hikes on everything across the board, but not wage.

You should have seen how fast the Horus Heresy crowd died... The Glut on the local shelf was legendary. It was as if the whole group, collectively, said- the hell with it, we're out.

I have a local store near me that has a 30 foot long by 14 foot high wall, stuffed to the brim with 40k and AoS stuff. I don't understand how they move any of it. They have killteam boxes from years ago.

No discount unless you join thier pay-in "Rewards" club.

Keep in mind, FW raises their prices up to 10%. Before last year raise Warhound was 450, now it's 495. After this raise it's going to be 544.5.

 Overread wrote:
Also I want to point out that 3d printers are NOT cheaper.

They are not. They are a whole new hobby. But they allow me to do things I could have only imagined some years back, whereas GW is devolving to one pose, one loadout in most of their stuff.

 McDougall Designs wrote:
I have a local store near me that has a 30 foot long by 14 foot high wall, stuffed to the brim with 40k and AoS stuff. I don't understand how they move any of it. They have killteam boxes from years ago.

No discount unless you join thier pay-in "Rewards" club.

I suspect that has more to do with that particular store being bad than anything, positive or negative, involving GW's prices. Full MSRP at a store doesn't get customers when you can pay MSRP and have the thing you want show up at your house instead of having to go out and get it.

 Albertorius wrote:

 Overread wrote:
Also I want to point out that 3d printers are NOT cheaper.

They are not. They are a whole new hobby. But they allow me to do things I could habe only imagined some years back, whereas GW is devolving to one pose, one loadout in most of their stuff.

Which is an amusing complaint to me when the majority of 3D print models are also monopose in the extreme - some don't even bother to cut anything at all and just presupport as one standing pose.

Modular is a whole rafter of challenges and many don't do it well or don't do it at all.

Then you've got someone like Pipermakes who is just doing utterly crazy with modular it and its awesome.





But yeah 3D printing doesn't replace GW or Mantic or PP or any other firm; its just another avenue and another type and selection of models to pick from

tneva82 wrote:

 Albertorius wrote:

 Galas wrote:
6% increase after last year 5% prince increase with profits trought the roof.

Ok. Lovely lookin at those Ogre Infantry going from 32,50€ to 42,50€ and now 45€ in the span of 4 years.

What, you expected already amortized sprues (many, many times over) not to go up in price? C'mon, be serious.

If you don't want to see prices out better leave western countries and similar(japan etc). Our economic system is built on everything going up steadily and if not basically economy stalls, people get laid off, companies go bust and end of the world near.

Oh, yeah, ye olde "but you still live in a capitalist country" retort.

 Albertorius wrote:

 Undead_Love-Machine wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

 RaptorusRex wrote:
Complaining and complaining about complaining, round 1461647.

Bob has the right idea.

What, come and ineffectually complain about something they don't partake in and have no interest in?

Exalted.

I'm disappointed with the price rise, but not surprised. It won't stop me buying, even though times are tight. It's my hobby, after all.

And that's why they do it. Because they can.

Yes, of course.

Some people don't seem to understand that GW is a business.

They will charge what they can get away with.

Guess what? It's working for them.

Won't effect me as I haven't bought current GW stuff in years. Last GW thing I bought was second hand (Doom of the Eldar boardgame from the 90's).

I was toying with the idea of getting into the HH, the big box set looks nice, however the increase and poor currency conversion really puts that idea on hold.

It is an exact year that they announced the last price increase, will be interesting to see if they make the same announcement on Feb 9th 2024. Could be something to do with the financial year.

6% may be below UK inflation, but it comes at a bad time. Gw will weather what ever fall out this generates, as they are a behemoth of a company.

It would be less awful if they hadn't just raised the prices just a couple of months ago.

If I was still active in the 'Complete warhammer hobby experience™' I'd be annoyed, but honestly I save so much money by just playing older editions, alternative games, and basing miniatures in a way that lets me play the same models in multiple games. Simple dropping edition chasing has saved me so much.

Even simple things like not bothering to buy AoS battletomes, warscrolls and generals handbooks ever year saves more than what the price rise will probably add. Waiting on buying new AoS kits until they appear the following year in a battleforce also saves a nice amount.

I do find it amusing that GW are raising their prices at least twice every year now, and yet think they can bring out the old world and not have it fall into the exact same issues that WFB 8th ed was facing at the end (times). I also chuckle when I pick up old, OOP kits new in box which come with a complete WFB unit (Including command, extras and movement tray) and the price is still less than that of a 5/10 man set of current bog standard troops.

I do feel sorry for kids wanting to get into playing warhammer at these sort of price points. GW/Warhammer was incredibly important to me as a kid, I do not know how someone in similar shoes as I once was would have any chance to even be able to buy enough stuff to 'make do' to be involved in the hobby in some form these days. Pocket money sets are a thing of the past with warhammer.

There are the sort of comments where people try to justify a new generals handbook/rulebook/army book every 6 months as a good way to support the game, and by not buying into it you could be killing the game. I've stopped posting to most major hobby groups online simple as I'm sick of being told I'm hurting the game by playing older editions.

Gw price rises also become less of a hindrance on my own hobby, by just going out and celebrating each price rise with a huge order of Victrix/Oathmark (or other) minis instead.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 stonehorse wrote:

I was toying with the idea of getting into the HH, the big box set looks nice, however the increase and poor currency conversion really puts that idea on hold.

Play it in 6mm scale. Epic has a lively community and plenty of people run HH at 6mm. Vanguard minis has a huge range of minis for the HH, even before you add in the option to 3d Print.

You may end up buying some knights/Titan from the AT range, but its still a lot cheaper overall than buying into the larger scale version of the game.

 Undead_Love-Machine wrote:

Some people don't seem to understand that GW is a business
.

No, some people think it's a hobby.

 Azreal13 wrote:

 Undead_Love-Machine wrote:

Some people don't seem to understand that GW is a business
.

No, some people think it's a hobby.

Miniature painting is a hobby, wargaming is a hobby, Games Workshop is a business.

I know that you know this, so whatever point you were making has clearly gone over my head.

I've been "invested" in this hobby of ours since the late eighties, but I'm very much a realist when it comes to what modern day GW is.

 Undead_Love-Machine wrote:
Yes, of course.

Some people don't seem to understand that GW is a business.

They will charge what they can get away with.

Guess what? It's working for them.

Agreed. But that doesn't mean that you need to just suck it up, buttercup either.

Just take a look at WotC and all the OGL debacle and see what pushback can do.

But of course, if prices keep rising and people keep buying, it's not like they have any incentive whatsoever to stop doing it.