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For a big bug?

I want something novel. Not necessarily “we am make bug big as Titan”, but something adapted to taking down massive prey.

Think tendrils for clambering, and an abdomen mounted injector, either for Rippers or bio-acid. Clamber up or on your foe, penetrate with your abdomen spike, and Fill It Full Of Nasties.

 Gene St. Ealer wrote:
Yeah, definitely with Dudeface here. If the Emmissary was more cockroach-like (i.e. flat carapace protecting innards that could retreat for squeezing into tight spaces) it'd be one thing; like I could imagine the Maleceptor or Toxicrene shrinking itself inwards for navigating close quarters. The spore chimneys just make that ridiculous with the Emmissary.

I'm not disagreeing here, the stories evoked a very different creature in my mind than what we were presented. Also, i think it is thematically inconsistent in other dimensions as well - 'Norn Emissary' is a serviceable name, but i'd put it on either a very strong psyker or on a leadership creature, not on what is described as some sort of hyper-lictor. And it just looks like a hive tyrant on steroids, by the established visual language of the tyranid range, it should be a lynchpin synapse creature, not an infiltrating high-profile assassin. And let's not start with the 'Norn Assimilator', a name that is not just dumb, but also ill-fitting on a creature that seems to be a battleline superheavy and does zero assimilating from what we have seen so far.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
For a big bug?

I want something novel. Not necessarily “we am make bug big as Titan”, but something adapted to taking down massive prey.

Think tendrils for clambering, and an abdomen mounted injector, either for Rippers or bio-acid. Clamber up or on your foe, penetrate with your abdomen spike, and Fill It Full Of Nasties.

A flightless tarantula hawk the size of a baneblade would be nice.

Both Trygon and Mawloc are big enough that it wouldn’t be ludicrous for them to have Knight equivilant stats. That would be a really easy win for them if they wanted to give Nids something a bit beefier.

I’m not so bothered about the size of the Norn beasties, so long as their stats are enough for them to take on the big stuff.

 General Kroll wrote:
Both Trygon and Mawloc are big enough that it wouldn’t be ludicrous for them to have Knight equivilant stats. That would be a really easy win for them if they wanted to give Nids something a bit beefier.

The Trygon was even a Gargantuan Creature before being made plastic and the size wasn't any different between the FW and GW versions.

 Platuan4th wrote:

 General Kroll wrote:
Both Trygon and Mawloc are big enough that it wouldn’t be ludicrous for them to have Knight equivilant stats. That would be a really easy win for them if they wanted to give Nids something a bit beefier.

The Trygon was even a Gargantuan Creature before being made plastic and the size wasn't any different between the FW and GW versions.

It suffers from not being that gargantuan any more though sadly, it's just in the big category along with riptides and anything of that ilk. Further to that it needs to be punching harder and tougher if it fills that role.

Tsagualsa wrote:
And let's not start with the 'Norn Assimilator', a name that is not just dumb, but also ill-fitting on a creature that seems to be a battleline superheavy and does zero assimilating from what we have seen so far.

Same sort of feelings I have. The "loadout" doesn't really seem to make a lot of sense, either.... yet? Maybe a longer bestiary entry will improve the vibes? But right now I'm getting a bit of,

Hive Mind: We have spawned you to eliminate a particular fortification.
Norn Ass'm: That's sick. That slaps. What weapons shall be bestowed upon my form?
Hive Mind: A pair of massive toxinjector harpoons to pinion your prey in place.
Norn Ass'm: https://imgur.io/gallery/Fhaoy

Tsagualsa wrote:

 Gene St. Ealer wrote:
Yeah, definitely with Dudeface here. If the Emmissary was more cockroach-like (i.e. flat carapace protecting innards that could retreat for squeezing into tight spaces) it'd be one thing; like I could imagine the Maleceptor or Toxicrene shrinking itself inwards for navigating close quarters. The spore chimneys just make that ridiculous with the Emmissary.

I'm not disagreeing here, the stories evoked a very different creature in my mind than what we were presented. Also, i think it is thematically inconsistent in other dimensions as well - 'Norn Emissary' is a serviceable name, but i'd put it on either a very strong psyker or on a leadership creature, not on what is described as some sort of hyper-lictor. And it just looks like a hive tyrant on steroids, by the established visual language of the tyranid range, it should be a lynchpin synapse creature, not an infiltrating high-profile assassin. And let's not start with the 'Norn Assimilator', a name that is not just dumb, but also ill-fitting on a creature that seems to be a battleline superheavy and does zero assimilating from what we have seen so far.

Funny thing is too - with the lictor seeming to be much larger/taller than previous iterations, why couldn't they just make the super lictor... a lictor? And on the topic of the Norn Emissary name, IIRC a bunch of us (or at least me) thought the Norn Emissary could've been the psychic monstrosity we first saw previewed in the 10e video. That was, until they revealed that the monstrosity is actually Neurothrope-ish in size and is the Neurotyrant.

I really don't mean to complain much, I mostly love these models, but you're absolutely right, the nomenclature feels off-kilter.

The way I see it is if Lictor-varients fail the 'stealth' approach to assassination is deemed non-viable so the Norny boi is brewed up for the more direct method of punching straight through whatever defensive layers there may be to hit the 'vital organ' that is its target.

Lictors go after commanders, Norn creations go after Primarchs.

That's one way of looking at it, the two Norn warriors are basically the Tyranid's response to super-powerful characters beyond normal risk levels. They are also perhaps a means to allow the Tyranids to cover more fields of War rather than relying heavily on Hive Tyrants, which are supposed to be generals leading the armies or the Swarmlord, who is a limited resource.


The other angle is that the Norn's can also go after bunkers, armoured emplacements or other key targets. So they aren't just assassination, they are basically a special forces unit in one massive monster.

Norn Emissaries also have some degree of leadership. Not as army commanders like the Hive Tyrants but they are able to lead Tyranid strike forces.

What do we think for the emissaries stats, move 10, probs t12 3+/4++? 16ish wounds? 8ish s16 -3 D:d3+3 melee with twin linked?

They are Daemon Primarch sized, so likely M10" T11 2+/4++ 16 wounds.

But I also expect them to rely more on special rules than pure stats. In particular I'm expecting the Emissary to have both Infiltrate and Deep Strike to represent its ability to appear out of nowhere.
Maybe even gets Stealth, Fight First and Lone Operator to represent the fact it kinda is a giant Lictor.

Tsagualsa wrote:
'Norn Emissary' is a serviceable name, but i'd put it on either a very strong psyker or on a leadership creature, not on what is described as some sort of hyper-lictor.

See, I actually really like the name.

For me it evokes stuff along the lines of the "The Lanisters send their regards," portion of the Red Wedding. It feels very tongue-in-cheek that a Tyranid 'emissary' would be a hyper-dangerous assassin that can easily lop the head off of even elite Custodian leaders, in so far as nid 'diplomacy' is eating everything in sight.

Also, given the Norns were broadly responsible for shaping fates, the 'norn emissary' being a hero-targeted murder-machine strikes pretty true as well.

 Overread wrote:
Lictors go after commanders, Norn creations go after Primarchs.

That's one way of looking at it, the two Norn warriors are basically the Tyranid's response to super-powerful characters beyond normal risk levels. They are also perhaps a means to allow the Tyranids to cover more fields of War rather than relying heavily on Hive Tyrants, which are supposed to be generals leading the armies or the Swarmlord, who is a limited resource.


The other angle is that the Norn's can also go after bunkers, armoured emplacements or other key targets. So they aren't just assassination, they are basically a special forces unit in one massive monster.

Exalted for 'basically a special forces unit in one organism' that's a fantastic way of putting it!

Maybe the Norn Emissary shed or cut short its own spore chimneys in order to squeeze its way into that shaft. Maybe like how some animals can shed tails or limbs.

On a slightly related note, anyone else feeling the 'exposed brain' motif is being overused with this round of releases? I like it on Zoanthropes and Neurotyrants, it gives me a feel like the cerebral growth has been artificially stimulated to the point of being monstrous, but in a manner where less is more. With it showing up on all sorts of creatures that happen to have strong psychic abilities (as opposed to on creatures which are -only- strong psychic abilities) it doesn't feel as intimidating.

Iracundus wrote:
Maybe the Norn Emissary shed or cut short its own spore chimneys in order to squeeze its way into that shaft. Maybe like how some animals can shed tails or limbs.

Or maybe there are disconnects in GW between fiction writers, model designers, and rules writers (who presumably named the model).

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
On a slightly related note, anyone else feeling the 'exposed brain' motif is being overused with this round of releases? I like it on Zoanthropes and Neurotyrants, it gives me a feel like the cerebral growth has been artificially stimulated to the point of being monstrous, but in a manner where less is more. With it showing up on all sorts of creatures that happen to have strong psychic abilities (as opposed to on creatures which are -only- strong psychic abilities) it doesn't feel as intimidating.

I don't mind it on the emissary or neurolictor, it's just the tyranid design cue for psyker, just like how every space marine librarian has design features in common (psychic hood, etc). What I don't like is the parasite design style creeping in like every tyranid is controlled by an external Goa'uld (barbgaunts, neurotyrant, neurogaunts, to a lesser extant others).

 morganfreeman wrote:

Tsagualsa wrote:
'Norn Emissary' is a serviceable name, but i'd put it on either a very strong psyker or on a leadership creature, not on what is described as some sort of hyper-lictor.

See, I actually really like the name.

For me it evokes stuff along the lines of the "The Lanisters send their regards," portion of the Red Wedding. It feels very tongue-in-cheek that a Tyranid 'emissary' would be a hyper-dangerous assassin that can easily lop the head off of even elite Custodian leaders, in so far as nid 'diplomacy' is eating everything in sight.

Also, given the Norns were broadly responsible for shaping fates, the 'norn emissary' being a hero-targeted murder-machine strikes pretty true as well.

I like the name as well. It reminds me of Infinity's Morat Diplomatic Division with their philosophy - “The biggest gun always wins in any negotiation”.
What I do not get is Assimilator as a name for a creature which sole purpose is to annihilate.

 Gene St. Ealer wrote:

Tsagualsa wrote:

 Gene St. Ealer wrote:
Yeah, definitely with Dudeface here. If the Emmissary was more cockroach-like (i.e. flat carapace protecting innards that could retreat for squeezing into tight spaces) it'd be one thing; like I could imagine the Maleceptor or Toxicrene shrinking itself inwards for navigating close quarters. The spore chimneys just make that ridiculous with the Emmissary.

I'm not disagreeing here, the stories evoked a very different creature in my mind than what we were presented. Also, i think it is thematically inconsistent in other dimensions as well - 'Norn Emissary' is a serviceable name, but i'd put it on either a very strong psyker or on a leadership creature, not on what is described as some sort of hyper-lictor. And it just looks like a hive tyrant on steroids, by the established visual language of the tyranid range, it should be a lynchpin synapse creature, not an infiltrating high-profile assassin. And let's not start with the 'Norn Assimilator', a name that is not just dumb, but also ill-fitting on a creature that seems to be a battleline superheavy and does zero assimilating from what we have seen so far.

Funny thing is too - with the lictor seeming to be much larger/taller than previous iterations, why couldn't they just make the super lictor... a lictor? And on the topic of the Norn Emissary name, IIRC a bunch of us (or at least me) thought the Norn Emissary could've been the psychic monstrosity we first saw previewed in the 10e video. That was, until they revealed that the monstrosity is actually Neurothrope-ish in size and is the Neurotyrant.

I really don't mean to complain much, I mostly love these models, but you're absolutely right, the nomenclature feels off-kilter.

You folks would probably be a lot happier if you stopped misspelling the Nom Emissary's and Nom Assimilator's names. Properly spelled they make a lot more sense.

 Overread wrote:
Lictors go after commanders, Norn creations go after Primarchs.

That's one way of looking at it, the two Norn warriors are basically the Tyranid's response to super-powerful characters beyond normal risk levels. They are also perhaps a means to allow the Tyranids to cover more fields of War rather than relying heavily on Hive Tyrants, which are supposed to be generals leading the armies or the Swarmlord, who is a limited resource.


The other angle is that the Norn's can also go after bunkers, armoured emplacements or other key targets. So they aren't just assassination, they are basically a special forces unit in one massive monster.

What the Nom Emissary seems to lack is the Lictor's ability to actually get to its target. It's large and easily visible. The model just doesn't read assassin.

That's really the problem with looking like an embiggened Hive Tyrant. It's as conventional in appearance as Tyranid monsters get, and that comes with expectations. In spite of what the fluff would have us believe, it very much looks like it needs supporting forces to get to its target. At that point I have to ask, what's the difference between this giant monster and the half dozen giant monsters we already have? They're all big and stabby and share a lack of stealthiness. The Nom Emissary doesn't look like it has unique features that qualify it as an assassin.

 Geifer wrote:


What the Nom Emissary seems to lack is the Lictor's ability to actually get to its target. It's large and easily visible. The model just doesn't read assassin.

That's really the problem with looking like an embiggened Hive Tyrant. It's as conventional in appearance as Tyranid monsters get, and that comes with expectations. In spite of what the fluff would have us believe, it very much looks like it needs supporting forces to get to its target. At that point I have to ask, what's the difference between this giant monster and the half dozen giant monsters we already have? They're all big and stabby and share a lack of stealthiness. The Nom Emissary doesn't look like it has unique features that qualify it as an assassin.

So he is like Dima, relaying on speed and toughness to get to its target? Also, it is a psychic creature, and in the novel there is a dread feeling propagating throughout the system with bad dreams about the creature etc. paralysing many. Its rules may reflect it, giving him some bonuses to avoid fire etc.

True. GW has gone for a big focus with this Tyranid wave on the advanced forces. Genestealers, Lictors, Norns - all advanced battle forces and clearly they've built the idea that you can build a whole army around that theme.

So there is a sense that perhaps they've shoe-horned in a big model to fit this role on the tabletop even if its not the most logical lore/practicality wise.




At the same time the 40K setting does everything by a scale of 11. It cranks up battlefields, bunkers, cities and everything ot insanely huge sizes and scales. In such a setting its possible that a stealth unit could be a lot bigger than we might expect. At least one designed to break major bunkers and facilities or super-powerful individuals.

If the Norn's have the same camouflage abilities that lictors do plus psy powers plus a cat/rodent style structure to squeeze into spots you don't think they should be able too; then there's a chance that they can be stealthy and yet bulky in a setting that just has insanely big structures and theatres of war.



I do think that the Norns are very much a case of once spotted/attacking you will notice them. The key being that once you notice them, they've got enough individual power and ability that you and the target will be destroyed. So there's a sacrificial element to them that you don't see with Hive Tyrants. It's bringing a Tyrant into the forward battlefield area; a forward commander if need be; a forward infiltrator and demolishing expert.

There's even a sense that they'll come with synapse to take control of local forces directly and use that to impose their objective on local Tyranids to direct them toward their specific target.



I see Norns as your special forces coupled to forward commander. I think they fit that role and concept if perhaps not being as stealthy as is ideal, but kind of working in the nuts massive 40K setting

I mean the miniatures team makes something, then the fluff team has to find a way to fit it into the universe, then the rules team has to work out how it fits into the game.

There had to have been some disconnect to get from "Bigger Hive Tyrant" to "Super-Duper Size-Changing Ninja Tyranid Assassin Monster".

I think they confirmed in the Stream that the Norn Emissary is both a psychic/synapse creature as well as packing a punch physically. They also confirmed I think that it had 'a number' of psychic attacks it could use in the shooting phase.

As for rules, I would be astonished if it didn't have at least one of Stealth, Scout, Infiltrate, Deepstrike and Lone Operative. I am more interested in what it has to make it good against the targets it is supposedly good at killing.

I really don't know what to expect for the Assimilator. They just said it was like the Emissary but instead of going after High Value characters, it was intended to go after super heavies and LOWs presumably.

Necronmaniac05 wrote:

I really don't know what to expect for the Assimilator. They just said it was like the Emissary but instead of going after High Value characters, it was intended to go after super heavies and LOWs presumably.

And most of those units are not organic but somehow he has toxins as one of primary armaments instead some crab like heavy claws etc. I do not get it.

Well if delivered with enough force, you can technically poison an Imperial Knight.

 Tyran wrote:
Well if delivered with enough force, you can technically poison an Imperial Knight.

True Still more efficient would be to rip off his leg

 Shadow Walker wrote:

 Tyran wrote:
Well if delivered with enough force, you can technically poison an Imperial Knight.

True Still more efficient would be to rip off his leg

The toxins might be acidic as well, so that would make a bit more sense.

Dudeface wrote:

 Shadow Walker wrote:

 Tyran wrote:
Well if delivered with enough force, you can technically poison an Imperial Knight.

True Still more efficient would be to rip off his leg

The toxins might be acidic as well, so that would make a bit more sense.

Aliens style? Maybe. Still I do not see it as being effective against fortifications as mentioned in the article. Also why does it need both harpoons and Flesh Hooks?

 Shadow Walker wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

 Shadow Walker wrote:

 Tyran wrote:
Well if delivered with enough force, you can technically poison an Imperial Knight.

True Still more efficient would be to rip off his leg

The toxins might be acidic as well, so that would make a bit more sense.

Aliens style? Maybe. Still I do not see it as being effective against fortifications as mentioned in the article. Also why does it need both harpoons and Flesh Hooks?

To help him climb those tall fortifications.