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vadersson wrote: I think any real starter box should have Titans. I can kind of see not having aircraft in the starter, but I think having Titans is critical. Noting really show a the scale range as having little inf, some vehicles, and then towering Titans.
My biggest fear is that GW puts the price so high as to drive me away. I started Bolt Action about a year ago an reallyed enjoyed getting a full army for about $100.
BTW Stormonu, I thought they indicated that the full rulebook would be available separately in tye first preview. I might be wrong, but I would expect them to release it separately at some point.
I think the problem with including Titans in the starter set is that they're such a large investment in a force that they're probably not great to have in the small starter games that the starter set is trying to recreate, and it's also not great to "force" people into a specific Titan. Like, maybe the person doesn't want 2x Warhounds, maybe they want a Reaver, or a Warlord, or no Titans at all.
The extra bad thing in this case is that the Warhounds aren't even new models, they're models that most AT fans will already have.
I was just poking around the GW website, and there are no Titans for sale. There are a few sprues of weapon options (mostly out of stock), and the AT starter box (out of stock), but that's it. They are not even listed. Presumably, they are being repackaged to fit in with LI, but who knows.
F - is the Fire that rains from the skies.
U - for Uranium Bomb!
N - is for No Survivors...
Good post there Andrew1975, I agree wholeheartedly.
I actually played a game last night. My Reaver took a Gargant belly-gun round to the face (just about stayed on its feet), the shot cannoned off into a nearby building and flattened it - bad news for the Devastator detachment hiding in it. I love that element of events associated with titans and their weaponry, it wasn't a massive amount of extra dice rolling or record keeping, and I hope it has some equivalent in the new game.
I'd fully expect - and the articles tend to support this - that this will be a combined arms rock-paper-scissors game.
Meaning that different elements will have strengths and weaknesses in relation to others. So (for example), while a Titan might be great at flattening vehicles, it may be vulnerable to infantry and/or air strikes.
Likewise, other units will be good against some, but weak against others.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/07/26 06:39:41
schoon wrote: I'd fully expect - and the articles tend to support this - that this will be a combined arms rock-paper-scissors game.
Meaning that different elements will have strengths and weaknesses in relation to others. So (for example), while a Titan might be great at flattening vehicles, it may be vulnerable to infantry and/or air strikes.
Likewise, other units will be good against some, but weak against others.
It'll be interesting to see if the currently cosmetic options for mortars and anti-air systems on the Warbringer & Warmaster kits see in-game rules under Epic.
Perhaps in future we also see things like AA carapace weapon options for Reavers & Warlords too.
Andrew1975 wrote: Epic 40k was more like assembled strike forces, built almost just like 40k armies are just on a smaller scale.
Epic 40k just gave you heaps of flexibility in how the detachments were assembled... and some people used that to create mini-40k armies as their detachments. But generally it was better to have focused detachments and pick units that were either a group of the same unit or units that synergised well together.
I feel like Epic40k is the most misunderstood edition, that said I liked it so I'm probably biased, lol.
I'm not going to be surprised if new-Epic is more open in the detachment building aspect, though maybe not as open as Epic40k and maybe not in a similar way to Epic40k at all.
I used to love Space Marine, so I would be well up for this. However, I've already bought into 30k in full-size version, so not sure I can justify doing both
Billicus wrote: Sure they do. Warcry broke new price ground when it launched. Pretty sure the original Titanicus launch set did too.
Grandmaster edition was pretty sensible for what it contained, as there was an absolute mountain of terrain sprues included in the box. You basically got a Warlord for free if you wanted everything in it. The problem with the set was that the units it contained were highly unrepresentative of what the game is and the sticker shock of 230 € to try things out was quite unwelcoming for many. This was later fixed with the superb deal that was the current starter box.
That 'mountain' of terrain sprues in the Grandmaster box was about 1/4 of the amount you'd need to fill a table properly and provide adequate cover. It was really a waste from a value standpoint. But it did get people buying more Civitas terrain, so mission accomplished for GW.
Those are different things, though. "The box had a lot of plastic at a discount" is a different statement than "the box gets you a full table". If you wanted everything, including the terrain and rules kits, it was of value as a starting point (at the time, buying the pieces individually would have been around 350 €). If anyone seriously sets their standards for a normal launch box at "has two fully playable forces and 4' x 4' table's worth of quality plastic terrain for a terrain heavy game" that's simply unrealistic.
I'm not sure that we're discussing the same thing. My point is that something can be discounted but not represent a good value to the customer. The only way those terrain sprues became valuable is if the customer bought a lot more of them. (Or potentially sold them off to others.)
IMO, the GM box would have been a better value without terrain sprues inflating its price. As I said, it did get people buying more of it (myself included, although I would never do that again), so it was a successful marketing tactic.
From that viewpoint, sure. Getting only discounted titans like we got in the maniple boxes down the line would've of course been the best value for customers who only wanted the titans, no problem with that line of thinking. I still have to disagree on the terrain only being valuable if you bought more, though, as nothing forces the customers to only use those kits. This is a hobby where we create plenty of beautiful things that can be used across multiple systems, especially when it comes to terrain. Combining even a small number of buildings with your existing collection of hills, water features, woods and other appropriate pieces or embedding them into such makes for amazing tables that give the titans a nice sense of scale. This is why I started by saying "if you wanted everything in the box", as I can't say I would've been dissatisfied with mine as a customer since I did want it all. I do agree that it wasn't a stellar opening box by any means, unlike the later starter kit which is excellent for just getting rules and models.
Slinky wrote: I used to love Space Marine, so I would be well up for this. However, I've already bought into 30k in full-size version, so not sure I can justify doing both
At the risk of getting overly philosophical- who do you need to justify it to?
Skinflint Games- war gaming in the age of austerity
Slinky wrote: I used to love Space Marine, so I would be well up for this. However, I've already bought into 30k in full-size version, so not sure I can justify doing both
At the risk of getting overly philosophical- who do you need to justify it to?
Time and banks accounts usually, I've the same issues, I need to pick one or the other for my next venture.
Slinky wrote: I used to love Space Marine, so I would be well up for this. However, I've already bought into 30k in full-size version, so not sure I can justify doing both
At the risk of getting overly philosophical- who do you need to justify it to?
My cupboard space, my bank account, my existing pile of shame, my limited free time, my potential opponents....
...and if I had a significant other they'd probably crack it for a mention
Slinky wrote: I used to love Space Marine, so I would be well up for this. However, I've already bought into 30k in full-size version, so not sure I can justify doing both
At the risk of getting overly philosophical- who do you need to justify it to?
My cupboard space, my bank account, my existing pile of shame, my limited free time, my potential opponents....
...and if I had a significant other they'd probably crack it for a mention
Of course judging from Necromunda the tiles have a good chance of coming significantly warped. So much for a safe flat surface. And you get 6 square feet... more than Munda tiles, but you'll still need 4 boxes for a table. For something that's barely textured more than two layer mdf.
How much of a price hike are we expecting on the buildings and industrial tanks since we last saw them? +50%?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/07/26 13:19:43
The old meta is dead and the new meta struggles to be born. Now is the time of munchkins.
Slinky wrote: I used to love Space Marine, so I would be well up for this. However, I've already bought into 30k in full-size version, so not sure I can justify doing both
At the risk of getting overly philosophical- who do you need to justify it to?
My cupboard space, my bank account, my existing pile of shame, my limited free time, my potential opponents....
...and if I had a significant other they'd probably crack it for a mention
All the above
Fair enough, that's what I get for being a smartarse
Skinflint Games- war gaming in the age of austerity
Slinky wrote: I used to love Space Marine, so I would be well up for this. However, I've already bought into 30k in full-size version, so not sure I can justify doing both
At the risk of getting overly philosophical- who do you need to justify it to?
My cupboard space, my bank account, my existing pile of shame, my limited free time, my potential opponents....
...and if I had a significant other they'd probably crack it for a mention
Cupboard space is *the* one thing that you can never use as an excuse to not collect Epic!
I think I've got about 11,000 points of marines in a small carry case (minus the titans), think equivalent of a couple of Saga or Necromunda warbands/gangs.
Don't need any tiles myself, but GW making products like that alongside new ruins is a great sign for future support of this game system. In comparison, Titanicus on release was a single plastic terrain kit followed by resin Forgeworld tiles that cost around £500 for an empty table.
Baneblade & friends as Thursday's reveal article seems likely too.
Ruins are nice, tiles will typically be a product quickly going to "unavailable online" for a while. They'll certainly be packaged the same than Necromunda, a nice flat box, so no danger of being warped and easy to put away.
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