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 ZergSmasher wrote:
On the subject of the Lieutenant with Combi-weapon, he does have a very distinct ruleset compared to normal Lieutenants. He's a Lone Operative, where the others are leaders (of various different units depending on type). Personally I think he should have a cooler name (like Forward Ops Lieutenant or Tyrannic Veteran Lieutenant) but given his ruleset he definitely should be his own thing.

He's no different, lorewise, than how the other two have been described. It's just that he came in a box with no Phobos stuff.

It is nice they have an option to field characters solo without them just eating a lascannon to the face when not in a squad. Would be nice if they had similar lone operative options for other characters, but that would probably end up with massive bloat.

Or they could fix the character rules, but let’s not talk crazy…

 Kanluwen wrote:

 ZergSmasher wrote:
On the subject of the Lieutenant with Combi-weapon, he does have a very distinct ruleset compared to normal Lieutenants. He's a Lone Operative, where the others are leaders (of various different units depending on type). Personally I think he should have a cooler name (like Forward Ops Lieutenant or Tyrannic Veteran Lieutenant) but given his ruleset he definitely should be his own thing.

He's no different, lorewise, than how the other two have been described. It's just that he came in a box with no Phobos stuff.

The same is equally true of the Gravis Apothecary, and there aren't enough Terminators for both the Captain and Librarian to join a squad.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Designer Interview for the new Marines
Gotta say, I'm a bit disappointed that it sounds like the Company Heroes is forced into weapon role diversity. Will sadly make them a bit of a lame duck choice.

Remember that Heavy weapons are just a +1 to hit if stationary now, and even the Intercessors have them now.

As for the rest of the interview, Termie Sergeants can now take power fists.

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
Gotta say, I'm a bit disappointed that it sounds like the Company Heroes is forced into weapon role diversity. Will sadly make them a bit of a lame duck choice.

Yeah... smashing all those choices back into a single squad isn't much fun. I just got the Company Champion model from their MTO thing. Shame he has to be stuck in that squad.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
Gotta say, I'm a bit disappointed that it sounds like the Company Heroes is forced into weapon role diversity. Will sadly make them a bit of a lame duck choice.

Yeah... smashing all those choices back into a single squad isn't much fun. I just got the Company Champion model from their MTO thing. Shame he has to be stuck in that squad.

Hey, the Company Champion arrived with like, a two-week window you could use him as written! If you didn't get him painted and on the table in that time, that's on you.

Mine arrived the day before I went on holiday for 2 weeks. He's still in his box!

My MTO champ made it to built and primed. On the bright side, I’ve got an ancient, so just need to kitbash the other two vets in the squad to have a nice command squad for my company.

I suspect the full SG kit and my bits box will be able to sort that out.

ngl, Space Marine players now feeling how Chaos Marine players have felt for a solid decade.

This is what it is. Half the codex is updated brand new models. The other half is models that are waiting to be updated/upscaled. Weird, limited characters, some that aren't even available to purchase on their own, or at all.

Welcome to the 'chaosistency' of GW. The Apothecary Biologis will be stuck in a combo box with the Lt with combi-weapon or something, just like how the Neurotyrant, Screamer Killer, and Neurogaunts will be stuck in a weird box together. Just like the Tyranid and Space Marine combat patrols, and the upcoming Necron combat patrol, and the Venomcrawler/Obliterator set stuck together, and the SM Honoured of the Chapter from last edition, and the Vanguard Task Force which is the only way to get the Suppressors.

It's not even unique to 40k, it's happening in AoS too. Models and sets GW has decided it isn't worth it to release them on their own, so they'll keep them together.

Unfortunately, all this behavior does is bloat the secondary and tertiary markets and make certain options more and more difficult for the layperson to get and add to their army without also purchasing either stuff they don't want or need for their collection, or go to other sources that will either be blessedly cheaper or sometimes scalped to high heaven. It also boosts the prevalence of their FOMO strategy. If a box set comes out and you want the characters, you gotta get it the day it goes up for pre-order, and if you miss out, it'll be sold out for a solid month, split up into weird sub-boxes that'll be 2x or 3x more expensive from the original box, and even THOSE will be hard to come by because they're low-priority on the production queue. Good luck.

I really, REALLY hope we see this behavior turn around. GW's too big to be locking models in monopose boxes like this. I really hoped that the Shadowspear Oblit/Venomcrawler thing was a one-off thing, but now it seems to be a whole strategy of bullcrappery.

drbored wrote:
I really, REALLY hope we see this behavior turn around. GW's too big to be locking models in monopose boxes like this. I really hoped that the Shadowspear Oblit/Venomcrawler thing was a one-off thing, but now it seems to be a whole strategy of bullcrappery.

GW is big, yes. But its size seems to be measured in breadth way more than it used to be. Horus Heresy, the return of the various specialist games, the odd new faction for the main games and model updates for factions that would have remained without new models for twice the time a decade ago are all things GW expanded into and that take up production time. GW may have grown, but so has its catalogue.

But manufacturing capacity aside, the monopose sprues from starter boxes look like they fit GW's strategy great. Once the starter box is retired, development for the sprues is already paid for. GW gets to sell something in bulk for a fairly high price instead of having people only pick up one or two models of the group, which is something they seem to have grown very fond of after start collecting boxes became a success through the same approach. And there is an element of fueling FOMO to these sprues.

For the customer, you are correct. For us it would be desirable to have proper individual kits for all these units locked in a mixed bag sprue. But I don't see a desire on GW's part to do do away with something that, as far as we can tell, works just fine for them.

So I have been out of the hobby for a long time, even longer time since I've been actively playing, got dragged back in with leviathan.

Am I correct in my reading of announcements so far that in essence you might as well be playing one of the divergent chapters e.g. Blood Angels, Dark Angels etc. as they're going to have literally all the core codex plus extras? Thinking I may have goofed painting my models as Imperial Fists so far if this is the case.

 Ignatius-Grulgor wrote:
So I have been out of the hobby for a long time, even longer time since I've been actively playing, got dragged back in with leviathan.

Am I correct in my reading of announcements so far that in essence you might as well be playing one of the divergent chapters e.g. Blood Angels, Dark Angels etc. as they're going to have literally all the core codex plus extras? Thinking I may have goofed painting my models as Imperial Fists so far if this is the case.

Its the normal problem - how do you make the "oh so very super special" Chapters different from the 990 other, often equally or more divergent Chapters but also allow them to have most if not all of the normal stuff.....

We’ll find out for sure when we get the first chapter supplement book.

Right now it seems like a return of keeping paint and rules separate. As long as you don’t use 2 different chapter locked units at the same time, it doesn’t make a difference.

 Ignatius-Grulgor wrote:
So I have been out of the hobby for a long time, even longer time since I've been actively playing, got dragged back in with leviathan.

Am I correct in my reading of announcements so far that in essence you might as well be playing one of the divergent chapters e.g. Blood Angels, Dark Angels etc. as they're going to have literally all the core codex plus extras? Thinking I may have goofed painting my models as Imperial Fists so far if this is the case.

Nah, just have some fancy Imperial fist jump guys and play with the BA rules, or some extra terminators and use DA or whatever, it's the (un)intentional side effect of GW going the way they have with the chapters and detachment rules imo.

drbored wrote:
ngl, Space Marine players now feeling how Chaos Marine players have felt for a solid decade.

This is an apt comparison.

I hope that the various divergent Chapters help to fill in the gaps in the line (Outriders/Bike Captain with the Dark Angels, Assault Terminators/Vanguard Jump Packers with the Blood Angels, and so on)... but I doubt it.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/09/26/the-sternguard-and-terminator-kits-make-for-the-fanciest-space-marines-in-the-imperium/

Sternguard Sprues shown off. 2 x combi plasma/melts/flamer, but confirmed to not matter as it’s a single combi-weapon profile.

It's such a bummer that they didn't make it so that there were Phobos parts in the Sternguard kit.

Good to see that the new Terminators borrow elements from Space Marine Heroes 2 (split storm bolter & power fist).

Two minor nitpicks : IMO, rear torso would have been nicer with gothic arches (see current DW termies). Also, a storm
bolter with sickle clips would have been nice..

Will be picking up a couple of boxes for my Space Hulk project.

The way the Terminator legs are structured screams them doing a Deathwing upgrade sprue rather than fully new models.

(Which is fine.)

A single studded pauldron and greave. Thanks GW, I hate it.

 Kanluwen wrote:
It's such a bummer that they didn't make it so that there were Phobos parts in the Sternguard kit.

phobos is an entirely different armor no? Thats like saying "Its a shame the MK6 squad doesnt have MK3 bits in the kit"

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
It's such a bummer that they didn't make it so that there were Phobos parts in the Sternguard kit.

phobos is an entirely different armor no? Thats like saying "Its a shame the MK6 squad doesnt have MK3 bits in the kit"

Phobos is a different "loadout" of the base armor.

The Primaris armor is basically a frame which gets outfitted with plates as needed, per the lore.

But this is Tacticus... why would they put Phobos in there?

I mean, we get it - Raven Guard Raven Guard Raven Guard - as always, but still, your desire makes zero sense?

Interesting that every Terminator can have a Chainfist. Meanwhile, in Chaos Terminator Land...

Could do with a few more pistols in there so I can split the sternguard up to be veteran sergeants in other units, but I guess that's me being a bit too creative for GW in 2023. They're adjectivenoun verbers and that's that.

I like that the Cyclone includes a targeter to put on the fist. Nice nod to the old metals.

Spare helmets!

Glad I waited on assembling the leviathan characters.

 Platuan4th wrote:
I like that the Cyclone includes a targeter to put on the fist. Nice nod to the old metals.

How the mechanics of the power fields on Power Fists, Chainfists, and Power Fists with attached targeters work is a mystery which will never be answered, I'm sure...

 Nevelon wrote:
It is nice they have an option to field characters solo without them just eating a lascannon to the face when not in a squad. Would be nice if they had similar lone operative options for other characters, but that would probably end up with massive bloat.

Or they could fix the character rules, but let’s not talk crazy…

Overlapping character Auras? Overlapping Character Auras.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
But this is Tacticus... why would they put Phobos in there?

I mean, we get it - Raven Guard Raven Guard Raven Guard - as always, but still, your desire makes zero sense?

Interesting that every Terminator can have a Chainfist. Meanwhile, in Chaos Terminator Land...

Don't remind me...

But yeah, watch how loudly you say certain things. GW's gunna be looking for ideas for 11th edition and we may just get Phobos Sternguard and Phobos Gravis Terminator Assault Squad with Jump Packs and all sorts of wacky things to make space marines do something they already have 5 other squads to do, but space marines sell the most so they have to keep the idea pot stirring.

drbored wrote:

Don't remind me...

But yeah, watch how loudly you say certain things. GW's gunna be looking for ideas for 11th edition and we may just get Phobos Sternguard and Phobos Gravis Terminator Assault Squad with Jump Packs and all sorts of wacky things to make space marines do something they already have 5 other squads to do, but space marines sell the most so they have to keep the idea pot stirring.

The point that the poster you quoted missed is that I said parts. Having a few Gravis and Phobos parts would have allowed for people to make some of the weirder blends of Primaris Armor, like the Omnis(mix of Tacitus, Gravis, and Phobos parts--seen on Shrike and Suppressors), to give a bit more of a 'veteran' flavor to them.