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 Kanluwen wrote:

drbored wrote:

Don't remind me...

But yeah, watch how loudly you say certain things. GW's gunna be looking for ideas for 11th edition and we may just get Phobos Sternguard and Phobos Gravis Terminator Assault Squad with Jump Packs and all sorts of wacky things to make space marines do something they already have 5 other squads to do, but space marines sell the most so they have to keep the idea pot stirring.

The point that the poster you quoted missed is that I said parts. Having a few Gravis and Phobos parts would have allowed for people to make some of the weirder blends of Primaris Armor, like the Omnis(mix of Tacitus, Gravis, and Phobos parts--seen on Shrike and Suppressors), to give a bit more of a 'veteran' flavor to them.

...but they are not in Gravis or Phobos armor. They are in Tacitus armor.

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

drbored wrote:

Don't remind me...

But yeah, watch how loudly you say certain things. GW's gunna be looking for ideas for 11th edition and we may just get Phobos Sternguard and Phobos Gravis Terminator Assault Squad with Jump Packs and all sorts of wacky things to make space marines do something they already have 5 other squads to do, but space marines sell the most so they have to keep the idea pot stirring.

The point that the poster you quoted missed is that I said parts. Having a few Gravis and Phobos parts would have allowed for people to make some of the weirder blends of Primaris Armor, like the Omnis(mix of Tacitus, Gravis, and Phobos parts--seen on Shrike and Suppressors), to give a bit more of a 'veteran' flavor to them.

...but they are not in Gravis or Phobos armor. They are in Tacitus armor.

They have the Tacitus keyword. Not the same thing.

But I mean, Shrike and Suppressors don't have a keyword. Invictors are randomly keyworded as Phobos.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

drbored wrote:

Don't remind me...

But yeah, watch how loudly you say certain things. GW's gunna be looking for ideas for 11th edition and we may just get Phobos Sternguard and Phobos Gravis Terminator Assault Squad with Jump Packs and all sorts of wacky things to make space marines do something they already have 5 other squads to do, but space marines sell the most so they have to keep the idea pot stirring.

The point that the poster you quoted missed is that I said parts. Having a few Gravis and Phobos parts would have allowed for people to make some of the weirder blends of Primaris Armor, like the Omnis(mix of Tacitus, Gravis, and Phobos parts--seen on Shrike and Suppressors), to give a bit more of a 'veteran' flavor to them.

...but they are not in Gravis or Phobos armor. They are in Tacitus armor.

They have the Tacitus keyword. Not the same thing.

But I mean, Shrike and Suppressors don't have a keyword. Invictors are randomly keyworded as Phobos.

Yes, they have the keyword because they are wearing Mark X Tacticus armor. Shrike, Suppressors and the new Jump Pack Intercessors are "Jump Pack" keyword because making it "Tacticus Jump Pack" is clunky, as Jump Pack works on limiting availability to existing transports, much as Gravis and Phobos can/do.

The guy in the Invictor is wearing Phobos armor, so that is probably why.

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

Yes, they have the keyword because they are wearing Mark X Tacticus armor. Shrike, Suppressors and the new Jump Pack Intercessors are "Jump Pack" keyword because making it "Tacticus Jump Pack" is clunky, as Jump Pack works on limiting availability to existing transports, much as Gravis and Phobos can/do.

Unless there's been a leak of the Jump Pack Intercessors, we don't know what keywords they have.

Shrike lost the Phobos keyword despite having it when his new model dropped. He and Suppressors are both wearing "Omnis" pattern, which is literally just a mix of Gravis, Phobos, and Tacitus parts.

The guy in the Invictor is wearing Phobos armor, so that is probably why.

Sure, and the gunner and driver on the Invader ATV has Tacitus armor yet isn't keyworded as such...


It's okay to say you misunderstood the initial post I made. I said that it would have been nice to get Phobos parts for the Sternguard. Since the armor system is modular, there's no reason that you could not have had parts made available allowing for things like the slimmed down pauldrons/helmets, lighter vambraces, etc.

It's not like there is a Phobos unit that they could be confused with. Bad enough that the stupid tabards are forced down your throat at every fricking turn with the "veteran" units so that every Chapter looks like some wannabe Greco-Roman cosplayers. It would have been nice to be able to genuinely make your veterans look like veterans who have personalized their wargear somewhat.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

Yes, they have the keyword because they are wearing Mark X Tacticus armor. Shrike, Suppressors and the new Jump Pack Intercessors are "Jump Pack" keyword because making it "Tacticus Jump Pack" is clunky, as Jump Pack works on limiting availability to existing transports, much as Gravis and Phobos can/do.

Unless there's been a leak of the Jump Pack Intercessors, we don't know what keywords they have.

Shrike lost the Phobos keyword despite having it when his new model dropped. He and Suppressors are both wearing "Omnis" pattern, which is literally just a mix of Gravis, Phobos, and Tacitus parts.

The guy in the Invictor is wearing Phobos armor, so that is probably why.

Sure, and the gunner and driver on the Invader ATV has Tacitus armor yet isn't keyworded as such...


It's okay to say you misunderstood the initial post I made. I said that it would have been nice to get Phobos parts for the Sternguard. Since the armor system is modular, there's no reason that you could not have had parts made available allowing for things like the slimmed down pauldrons/helmets, lighter vambraces, etc.

It's not like there is a Phobos unit that they could be confused with. Bad enough that the stupid tabards are forced down your throat at every fricking turn with the "veteran" units so that every Chapter looks like some wannabe Greco-Roman cosplayers. It would have been nice to be able to genuinely make your veterans look like veterans who have personalized their wargear somewhat.

It is a safe bet on the Jump Pack, since they have... Jump packs. Omnis pattern would be redundant rules wise, while Phobos, Gravis and Tacticus are not. Same for the ATV, which is "Mounted". Much like "Jump Pack" it would not be helpful. Basically, my point is, they use armor keywords for limiting things unless there is a broader concept that exists to create a limitation.

Either way, the original point stands too - Sternguard are in Tacticus armor, so they wouldn't be wearing Gravis or Phobos armor. Just as they historically haven't had mixed Terminator armor either, despite being First Company veterans themselves.

You should probably be able to hit up your bits box and swap in some phobos bits if that’s what you want. When putting together an old KT, I used a few lighter armor bits on an intercessor for the “scout” role.

So we have no idea on datasheet changes (outside of new and expired ones) in comparison to ones already in circulation? Assuming we might see this weekend?

 bullyboy wrote:
So we have no idea on datasheet changes (outside of new and expired ones) in comparison to ones already in circulation? Assuming we might see this weekend?

Outside of reprinting corrections that already occurred (and catching some things they missed) for things like 'has CCW, doesn't have option to take CCW') , I don't see any reason to expect many (if any) changes to surviving datasheets.

Looking at new jump pack sprues, GW finally fixed the thing that bugged me forever, namely integrated power plants into the jump pack. Old squattus had jump pack and armor magically powered by nothing, this thing looks like it would actually function as described. Too bad 30K still gets old, crap designs, though maybe GW will positively surprise me and will copy the primaris look into Mk 6 pack (like they did with new termies, 100% of the improvement is copied from past primaris bits) to have them make sense too.

Billicus wrote:
Could do with a few more pistols in there so I can split the sternguard up to be veteran sergeants in other units, but I guess that's me being a bit too creative for GW in 2023. They're adjectivenoun verbers and that's that.

That's where you grab BT crusader squad which also has tabards and fancy helmets/backpacks, plus multiple pistols/melee weapons, and funnily enough, if I guess box prices right, get 1 free chapter champion and 4 scouts over sternguard kit, problem solved

 ZergSmasher wrote:
On the subject of the Lieutenant with Combi-weapon, he does have a very distinct ruleset compared to normal Lieutenants. He's a Lone Operative, where the others are leaders (of various different units depending on type). Personally I think he should have a cooler name (like Forward Ops Lieutenant or Tyrannic Veteran Lieutenant) but given his ruleset he definitely should be his own thing.

He is literally a 30K Moritat (or, if you want 40K example, DW Kill Marine or SW Lone Wolf, similar things had been in lore for ages). He absolutely should get a distinct name and actual options akin to the above, but alas, GW rules clown sabotaging primaris since 7th edition never put any thought or effort into their rules save for nerfing what he made good by accident.

Either way, it's hilarious to see usual call him 'bLoAt' when A) it's actually nice, fluffy addition to SM lineup, B) they praise the exact same thing in 30K under slightly different name, go figure

 Mr Morden wrote:
Its the normal problem - how do you make the "oh so very super special" Chapters different from the 990 other, often equally or more divergent Chapters but also allow them to have most if not all of the normal stuff.....

5th edition got this right (divergent chapters paying for snowflake units or different troop choices with lack of access to SM rules/relics/characters, units that duplicated their snowflake stuff, or points raised on units they traditionally rarely used) but alas, that was last time GW had competent rules writer leading 40K. Since then, whining of snowflake chapters players they don't get unit X or Y in addition to all their extra special ++ counterparts (and general rule writing incompetency on GW side) destroyed that delicate balance and it will be hard to put that genie back into bottle without someone feeling shafted, sadly.

10th could have fixed it by introducing separation between snowflake stuff and the broader SM rules (basically, making 'codex' chapters having extra options of their own over deviants) but alas, that would require effort and we can't have that...

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I hope that the various divergent Chapters help to fill in the gaps in the line (Outriders/Bike Captain with the Dark Angels, Assault Terminators/Vanguard Jump Packers with the Blood Angels, and so on)... but I doubt it.

Would be nice, but what I expect GW writer will actually do is leaving snowflake options segregated (see BT captain being the only one who knows how to unlock Power Axe cabinet in chapter armory) and snowflakiness ++ will just go to ++++

 Kanluwen wrote:
Invictors are randomly keyworded as Phobos.

They are keyworded as phobos because A) they wear phobos armor, B) they are designed to be buffed by phobos characters who can only target phobos units with their SR/psychic powers. Actually knowing the rules helps

Exactly. There's nothing weird about Invictors having the Phobos keyword. They're 100% Phobos units.

 Irbis wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Invictors are randomly keyworded as Phobos.

They are keyworded as phobos because A) they wear phobos armor, B) they are designed to be buffed by phobos characters who can only target phobos units with their SR/psychic powers. Actually knowing the rules helps

Funny you mention that...
Out of the Phobos equipped HQ? Only the Captain in Phobos Armor has a non-Leader associated ability, "Master of Deceit".
MoD affects "up to three friendly Adeptus Astartes Phobos, Adeptus Astartes Scout Squad, or Adeptus Astartes Scout Sniper Squad units".
Librarian only affects their squad with Shrouding(Psychic).
Lieutenants only affect their squads.
Heck, Shrike only affects the unit he joins now.

But I guess you knew that, since you're taking shots at me for not knowing the rules eh?

So lets leave the keyword off entirely so it can't be affected by likely strategems that target Phobos units?

Fine by me.

We already can surmise that they see an issue with it, given the wording of the Invictors' own "Combat Support" ability. and the leaked wording of the "Guerilla Tactics" stratagem for the Vanguard(but not really) Spearhead(affects 2 Phobos infantry or 1 other infantry). Unless there's something else coming down the road for Phobos, there's no point in having a non-infantry unit with the keyword.

Is there any info in this re The Legion Of The Damned? thanking you

No Legion.

Thank you

I wonder if there is going to be a good counts-as for them in the new book? Just a way to get some flaming undead marines to the table.

Would like to see them added to a potential imperial ally book sometime down the road. They are too cool to just let drift away.

 Beaker07 wrote:
Is there any info in this re The Legion Of The Damned? thanking you

Their rules can be found in the imperial agents Legends document

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/09/28/space-marine-company-heroes-kit-focus-whats-on-the-sprues/

Ok, so 100% no more Lightning Claws, Thunder Hammers/Storm Shields or even Chainswords on Captains anymore.

Marines get more and more like CSM every day...

I like the look of the command squad, but hope we get more options then what’s in the box for how to field them (yah, yah, I know…). Right now it’s all over the place with equipment. Captain gets a new pistol option. They have been flogging the concept of interchangeability with the new kits, so fingers crossed.

Still meh on the new chaplain mini. Interesting that he’s got a few custom options (like 2 crozious tops) how many TDA chaplains are most people going to want/need? I suspect the answer is around zero, but probably tops out at one. Still, more options are always welcome, just a little surprised to see them here. Will kitbash my own once I see the rules.

 Nevelon wrote:
I wonder if there is going to be a good counts-as for them in the new book? Just a way to get some flaming undead marines to the table.

Would like to see them added to a potential imperial ally book sometime down the road. They are too cool to just let drift away.

I would love to see them come up with a reason why they would be primaris now.

Because they're the souls of dead Space Marines and plenty of Primaris Marines have died.
Not exactly difficult.

 Gert wrote:
Because they're the souls of dead Space Marines and plenty of Primaris Marines have died.
Not exactly difficult.

There are a lot of theories on the LoTD, and this covers the big one.

If they are “good” warp entities, they could take the form of how the Imperium perceives marines, which could be primaris.

If they are marines lost to the warp, plenty of primaris have done so. Even if they are founded on a core of Fire Hawks, warp-lost primaris could have joined them.

The fluff does not have to be bent very far at all to accommodate new LotD sculps

 Nevelon wrote:
I like the look of the command squad, but hope we get more options then what’s in the box for how to field them (yah, yah, I know…).

Not going to happen. The squad will always have one guy with a Bolter, one guy with a Heavy Bolter, one guy with a flag, and one guy with a sword. Aren't kit-based restrictions fun?

 Nevelon wrote:
Right now it’s all over the place with equipment.

If GW released a Devastator squad today like the did back in the days of 2nd Ed, they'd be locked at one of each type of weapon.

 Nevelon wrote:
Still meh on the new chaplain mini. Interesting that he’s got a few custom options (like 2 crozious tops) how many TDA chaplains are most people going to want/need? I suspect the answer is around zero, but probably tops out at one. Still, more options are always welcome, just a little surprised to see them here. Will kitbash my own once I see the rules.

Does have more options?

Right now a TDA Chaplain can get a Combi-Weapon purely because this mini exists. But that mini isn't on general sale, and the new one has no combi-weapon on the sprue. So it may have lost combi-weapon access in favour of the Storm Shield.

 Nevelon wrote:
Still meh on the new chaplain mini. Interesting that he’s got a few custom options (like 2 crozious tops) how many TDA chaplains are most people going to want/need? I suspect the answer is around zero, but probably tops out at one. Still, more options are always welcome, just a little surprised to see them here. Will kitbash my own once I see the rules.

No or only one Terminator Chaplain sounds like heresy to me. I may have overindulged in the past because points limits back in the day meant I'd use exactly one character in my army, but I had way more Chaplains than that, both terminator and power armored. If I played these days, with how armies have gotten bigger in the meantime I might just use two of them. So I can definitely appreciate the extra bits.

That said, I'm not big on this particular model either. It's decent for the bits, or as a base model for a proper Chaplain conversion. But stock it's way too bland for my taste.

Also curious to see they thought a Terminator Chaplain of all people needs a storm shield.

I”m pretty surprised how apathetic I am toward this edition. No enthusiasm to play much or even build lists. I want my vanvets to have LCs again, etc. if I play, that’s how I’ll play (don’t play comp) since “heirloom weapons” is just dumb.

 Geifer wrote:

 Nevelon wrote:
Still meh on the new chaplain mini. Interesting that he’s got a few custom options (like 2 crozious tops) how many TDA chaplains are most people going to want/need? I suspect the answer is around zero, but probably tops out at one. Still, more options are always welcome, just a little surprised to see them here. Will kitbash my own once I see the rules.

No or only one Terminator Chaplain sounds like heresy to me. I may have overindulged in the past because points limits back in the day meant I'd use exactly one character in my army, but I had way more Chaplains than that, both terminator and power armored. If I played these days, with how armies have gotten bigger in the meantime I might just use two of them. So I can definitely appreciate the extra bits.

That said, I'm not big on this particular model either. It's decent for the bits, or as a base model for a proper Chaplain conversion. But stock it's way too bland for my taste.

Also curious to see they thought a Terminator Chaplain of all people needs a storm shield.

Don’t get me wrong, I love chaplains, of all types, and have fielded them even in editions where they were sub par. But I recognize that I’m a minority. Looking at the current rules, I don’t see much advantage to taking him over a librarian/captain.
From a fluff POV how many TDA chaplains are going to be available to a given chapter?

As for the shield, currently that looks like swapping out a SB for an extra wound. (Looking at similar character options). If you were going to stick him with some assault marines that aren’t going to be shooting anyway, why not?

I’ll be modeling the leviathan captain into a chaplain, but am going to wait until I have codex in hand before picking up the knife. This model just don’t do it for me.

 bullyboy wrote:
I want my vanvets to have LCs again, etc. if I play, that’s how I’ll play (don’t play comp) since “heirloom weapons” is just dumb.

I wouldn't worry too much. I doubt VanVets will even be in the new Codex, whether they have heirloom weapons or heirloom tomatoes!

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 bullyboy wrote:
I want my vanvets to have LCs again, etc. if I play, that’s how I’ll play (don’t play comp) since “heirloom weapons” is just dumb.

I wouldn't worry too much. I doubt VanVets will even be in the new Codex, whether they have heirloom weapons or heirloom tomatoes!

Foot vanguard vets are probably legends and/or toast, but JP VVs are still in (pg 160 per preview video)

No clue what wargear they will have.