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- Fix the Act of Atonement special rule. (Characters in a unit with at least one model with this special rule may choose to re-roll failed Look Out, Sir roll. In addition, friendly units partially or fully obscured from enemy units by a unit with at least one model with this special rule gains 4+ Cover Save. However, the Repenter unit suffers one Wound per Wound saved by those friendly units through this Cover Save. Wounds inflicted in this way are distributed randomly (but can only be allocated to model with the Act of Atonement special rule), and have their original AP.)
- Change the Sacred Ward Warlord Trait (Sacred Ward: The Warlord and his unit have a 6+ Invulnerable Save. If they already have Invulnerable Save, increase it by 1 (i.e 5+ becomes 4+)
- Add Footman Retinue (HQ)
- Add Crimson Preachers (HQ)
- Add Blessed Lasgun
- Concussion Carbine now has S4 AP5
From WH40k Wikia:
Spoiler:
"The Frateris Templar served as the primary military order of the Adeptus Ministorum for several centuries until it was disbanded in the 36th Millennium following the Reign of Blood of High Lord Goge Vandire during the Age of Apostasy. It was subsequently replaced as the Ecclesiarchy's primary military force by the Militant Orders of the Adepta Sororitas, better known as the Sisters of Battle."
"The Ecclesiarchy's forces included many commercial and military starships among their numbers, and dozens of Templar armies, each possessing the strength of an Imperial Guard Regiment. The Frateris Templar was an all-male military order and operated effectively as the private army of the Ecclesiarchy. At times it was used to crush revolts against the Ecclesiarchy's power and its religious domination of the Imperium."
Their fleet was destroyed in a Warp Storm while mobilising to attack Sebastian Thor. But I think it is silly to assume that every Templar was on the fleet, right ? And also, they are perfect for battle set in the Age of Apostasy. And what if some of them survived the Warp Storm and emerge from the Warp in the 41st Millenium ? What will the Imperium, and particularly the SoB, do about them ?
They look like the middleground between IG and SoB; more numerous than SoB and maybe better equipped than IG, seeing that the Ecclesiarchy is filthy rich and capable of equipping (almost) any SoB with Power Armour. So maybe standard Carapace Armour is not too much to ask for ? And standard equipments, I think, are almost similar to the SoB, but with more vehicles and improvised stuffs
So what do you guys think ?
I've made some units for the Codex:
Special rule:
Spoiler:
Greater Destiny: Model with this special rule has Feel No Pain (6+) special rule. In addition, if a unit containing at least one model with this special rule suffers one or more Wounds during the opposing player's Shooting Phase, after all shooting attacks have been resolved, the unit can choose to immediately advance up to D6" towards the closest enemy unit, taking Difficult and Dangerous Terrain tests as normal. If this move brings them into base contact with an enemy unit, then they count as having made a charge in the ensuing opposing player's Assault Phase (that means they gain bonus Attacks for charging), but the enemy unit being charged at cannot fire Overwatch.
Allies:
Spoiler:
Battle Brothers: Armies of the Imperium
Allies of Convenience: Eldar
Desperate Allies: Dark Eldar, Tau
Come the Apocalypse: Chaos Space Marines, Chaos Daemons, Orks, Necrons, Tyranid
Warlord Trait
Spoiler:
1 - Crusader's Call: The Warlord and his unit gain the Fleet special rule.
2 - Purification: Flamer and Melta weapons of the Warlord and his unit have the Twin-linked special rule.
3 - Sacred Ward: The Warlord and his unit have a 6+ Invulnerable Save. If they already have Invulnerable Save, increase it by 1 (i.e 5+ becomes 4+)
4 - Emperor's Wrath: The Warlord has the Rampage special rule
5 - Blessed Armaments: Invulnerable Save cannot be taken against Wounds caused by shooting attacks made by one friendly unit within 6" of the Warlord.
6 - Iron Aggression: The Warlord has the Monster Hunter and Tank Hunter special rules.
HQ
Paladin - 70 pts The Paladins are the commanders of Templar regiments. Veterans of many campaigns, they lead thousands of their brethrens into battle, provide them with a strong leadership and shrewd tactical commands. They are both commanders and warriors, and whenever the Ecclesiarchy sounds the call to battle, they boldly lead their brothers into the fray, refusing to stop until those opposing them are crushed.
Spoiler:
Paladin WS5 BS5 S4 T3 W3 I4 A3 Ld10 Sv3+
Unit Type: Infantry (Character)
Unit Composition: 1 Paladin
Wargear: Power armor, Laspistol and CCW, Frag grenades, Krak grenades
Special Rules: Crusader, Independent Character, Zealot, Greater Destiny
Option:
May take replace Laspistol with one of the following: - Boltpistol: 2 pt - Boltgun: 2 pt - Hand flamer: 5 pts - Combi-flamer,- melta or-plasma: 10pts - Inferno pistols: 15 pts
May take replace CCW with one of the following: - Null sword: 15 pts - Power weapon: 15 pts - Consecrated halberd: 15 pts - Chainfist: 30 pts
May take a rosarius: 15 pts
May take meltabombs: 5 pts
Crimson Preacher - 100 pts A member of the Ecclesiarchy who revels in death and destruction, these gun-slingers use a Hand Flamer/Inferno Pistol to deal truly unholy amounts of damage, all the while protected by the holy flame of the Emperor. They can also whip friendly units into a berserk rage, making them heedless of danger
Special Rules: Crusader, Fear, Independent Character, Zealot, Greater Destiny, Berserk Rage, Blazing Effigy, Death Aura
Berserk Rage: The Crimson Preacher and his unit re-roll all failed rolls To Wound.
Blazing Effigy: The Crimson Preacher The Crimson Preacher has a 6+ Invulnerable Save, and causes one S4 AP5 hit to an enemy unit locked in combat with his unit and within 2" of him whenever he suffers a hit in close combat.
Death Aura: The Crimson Preacher may only join Repenter and Frateris Zealot unit.
Option:
May take meltabombs: 5 pts
May take up 0-5 Ministorum Priests in each detachment. Do not take up FOC slot and do not qualify as mandatory HQ choice.
May take up to 1 Footman Retinue for each Paladin in the Detachment. . Do not take up FOC slot and do not qualify as mandatory HQ choice.
Footman Retinue - 70 pts A member of the Templar's hereditary servant/warrior class, the Footman fights with cherished heirlooms of blessed Lasgun passed down for centuries. They cater to every needs of the Paladins, and in battle they selflessly throw themselves between their master and and enemy fire to protect him, keeping the flame of the Emperor alive.
Human Shield: As long as there is at least one Paladin joining their unit, the Footmen gain the Fearless special rule, and all Look Out, Sir attempts for the Paladin(s) by Footmen automatically success, except for Wounds caused by weapons with the Sniper special rule, for which the Look Out, Sir attempts are made as normal.
Option:
May take up to 20 more Footmen for 7pts each.
The entire squad may take krak grenade: 1pt/model
If the unit numbers 12 models or less, it may select a Reckoner or a Chimera as a Dedicated Transport.
Troops:
Templar Squad - 50 pts The Templars are a disciplined and effective fighting force. Each one of them is equipped with superb weapons and armours, allow them to tackle a wide variety of foes. Their strongest weapons, however, are their faith in the Emperor, their devotion to the eradication of the Imperium's many enemies, and the bond of brotherhood between them.
Spoiler:
Templar WS3 BS4 S3 T3 W1 I3 A1 Ld7 Sv4+ Templar Superior WS3 BS4 S3 T3 W1 I3 A2 Ld8 Sv4+
Unit Type: Infantry, Superior is Infantry (Character)
Any Templar may replace his concussion carbine with a shotgun or lasgun for free
For every 5 models in the unit one Templar may replace his concussion carbine for one of the following: - Flamer: 5pts/model - Meltagun: 10 pts/model - Witchkiller rocket launcher: 15 pts/model
The unit may take krak grenades: 1 pts/model
May select a Reckoner or a Chimera as a Dedicated Transport.
Frateris Zealots - 40 pts (courtesy of Sister Sydney; you can find the original unit here under the name Frateris Militia The Frateris Zealots are the masses of the Imperial Cult's most zealous faithful who have gathered to fight wars of faith against the enemies of the God-Emperor and Mankind. Despite being ill-trained and ill-equipped, they make up for this general lack with selfless fanaticism.
Spoiler:
Zealot WS2 BS2 S3 T3 W1 I3 A1 Ld6 Sv:6+ Champion: WS3 BS3 S3 T3 W1 I3 A2 Ld6 Sv6+
Unit Type: Infantry, Champion is Infantry (Character)
Any Zealot may replace his stub gun with a shotgun for 1 pt
For every 10 models in the unit one Zealot may replace his Stub gun for one of the following: - Grenade launcher: 4 pts/model - Flamer: 4 pts/model - Heavy stubber: 5 pts/model Grenade launcher and flamer taken by a Frateris Zealot suffer from the Gets Hot special rule
If the unit numbers 12 models or less, it may select a Frateris Technical as a Dedicated Transport.
Repenters - 50 pts Repenters are heretics who seek absolution in the field of battle. Shackled by chain and lead by merciless Overseer, the Repenters throw themselves into enemy fire, desperately finding a chance to redeem themselves in the eyes of the Emperor.
Special Rules: Rage, Greater Destiny (Overseer only), Act of Atonement (Repenter and Mutant only), Stubborn Act of Atonement: Characters in a unit with at least one model with this special rule may choose to re-roll failed Look Out, Sir roll. In addition, friendly units partially or fully obscured from enemy units by a unit with at least one model with this special rule gains 4+ Cover Save. However, the Repenter unit suffers one Wound per Wound saved by those friendly units through this Cover Save. Wounds inflicted in this way are distributed randomly (but can only be allocated to model with the Act of Atonement special rule), and have their original AP.
Option:
May take up to 20 more Repenters for 4pts each.
May take joined by up to 5 Mutants: 12 pts each
For every 5 models in the unit one Repenter may be equipped with bomb harness: 15 pts/model
Dedicated Transport:
Reckoner - 90 pts A transport variant based on the famed Leman Russ Battle Tank, the Reckoner can deliver its cargo safely deep inside enemy territory and provide vital fire support, while return fire bounces harmlessly of its thick armour.
Spoiler:
BS4 F12 S12 R10 HP3
Unit Composition: 1 Reckoner Unit Type: Vehicle (Tank, Transport)
Access Points: The Reckoner has one Access Point at the front and one at the rear
Options:
May replace its twin-linked autocannon with: - Twin-linked heavy flamer: free - Twin-linked multi-melta: free
May take any of the following - Dozer blade: 5pts - Extra armour: 10 pts - Hunter-killer missile: 10 pts - Fear Siren: 10 pts
Chimera - 65 pts
Spoiler:
BS4 F12 S10 R10 HP3
Unit Composition: 1 Chimera Unit Type: Vehicle (Tank, Transport)
Wargear: Multi-laser, heavy bolter, searchlight, smoke launchers
Special Rules: Amphibious, Assault Vehicle
Transport capacity: 12 models.
Fire points: Two model can fire from the Chimera's top hatch
Access Points: A Chimera has one Access Point at the rear
Options: May replace heavy bolter and/or multi-laser with: - Heavy flamer: free - Multi-melta: free
May take any of the following - Dozer blade: 5pts - Extra armour: 10 pts - Hunter-killer missile: 10 pts - Fear Siren: 10 pts
Frateris Technical - 30 pts (courtesy of Sister Sydney; you can find the original unit here) Some Frateris Zealots go into battle on modified pickup trucks; while they are not the best protected or equipped, they can get their users into battle a lot faster than walking on foot. That is, if they can survive more than a few hits.
Spoiler:
BS2 F10 S10 R10 HP2
Unit Composition: 1 Frateris Technical Unit Type: Vehicle (Fast, Open-Topped, Transport)
Wargear: Heavy stubber, Searchlight, Smoke Launchers
Transport capacity: 12 models. The Technical may not carry Bulky, Very Bulky or Extremely Bulky models.
Options:
May replace the heavy stubber with - Grenade launcher: 4 pts - Flamer: 4 pts
The Grenade Launcher and Flamer taken by the Frateris Technical suffer from the Gets Hot special rule.
Elite:
Flamebringer Squad - 60 pts With their flamethrowers and power armours, the Flamebringers sanctify the lands of the Imperium threatened by heresy. Leading every attacks, these troops clear the field of enemy infantry and restore the Emperor's rule across the galaxy on a tide of scourging flame. Humanity will remember and embrace their true master, or they will burn.
Spoiler:
Flamebringer WS4 BS4 S4 T3 W1 I3 A1 Ld8 Sv3+ Flamebringer Superior WS4 BS4 S4 T3 W1 I3 A2 Ld9 Sv3+
Unit Type: Infantry, Superior is Infantry (Character)
Unit Composition: 2 Flamebringers, 1 Flamebringer Superior
Wargear: Power armor, Flamer, CCW, Frag grenades, Krak grenades
Special Rules: Crusader, Greater Destiny, Scouring Flame
Scouring Flame: At the start of the opposing player's Movement Phase, any enemy unit that is within 2" of one or more units with this special rule suffers D3 S4 AP5 hits. This applies even if the unit with this special rules is locked in combat.
Option:
May take up to 7 more Flamebringers for 20pts each.
Any Flamebringer may replace his Flamer for one of the following: - Meltagun: free - Blazing sword: free - Redeemer rocket launcher: 5 pts/model
The unit may take meltabombs: 5 pts/model
May select a Reckoner or a Chimera as a Dedicated Transport.
Crusader Squad - 60 pts Trained from birth, the Crusaders represent the martial prowess of the Frateris Templar. Fueled by their faith and their extreme hatred for the enemies of Man, they crash into battle line to wreck havoc with their finely crafted swords, while return fire bound febbly of their shield
Spoiler:
Crusader WS4 BS3 S4 T3 W1 I3 A1 Ld8 Sv4+ Crusader Superior WS4 BS3 S4 T3 W1 I3 A2 Ld9 Sv4+
Unit Type: Infantry, Superior is Infantry (Character)
Unit Composition: 2 Crusaders, 1 Crusader Superior
Wargear: Carapace armor, storm shield, power sword and CCW, Frag grenades, Krak grenades
Special Rules: Crusader, Greater Destiny, Hatred (Everything)
Option:
May take up to 7 more Crusaders for 20pts each.
Any model may replace power sword with consecrated halberd: 5 pts/model
The unit may take meltabombs: 5 pts/model
May select a Reckoner or a Chimera as a Dedicated Transport.
Fast Attack:
Deliverer Squadron - 105 pts Protected by mysterious power, the Deliverers race accross the battlefield disintegrating enemy lines with thrice-blessed halberds before drawing blades to finish those left standing. Fueled by their faith, the Deliverers are amongst the deadliest warriors of the Frateris Templar.
Special Rules: Aegis, Crusader, Greater Destiny, Scout
Aegis: Successful To Wound Roll against model with this special rule caused by weapons with Sniper, Poisoned, or Fleshbane special rule, Flamer weapons or by the Soul Blaze special rule must be re-rolled
Option:
May take up to 7 more Deliverers for 30pts each
Any Deliverer may replace his Consecrated halberd for one of the following: - Blazing sword: free - Null sword: free
The unit may take refractor field: 10 pts/model
Templar Fusilier Squad - 60 pts The Fusiliers are elite marksmen of the Templar; they usually infiltrate enemy position long before the battle begin, then reveal themselves for a split second to eliminate a high profile target in a well-aimed fusillade of fire before disappearing again into the shadow
Spoiler:
Fusilier WS3 BS4 S3 T3 W1 I3 A1 Ld8 Sv5+ Fusilier Superior WS3 BS4 S3 T3 W1 I3 A2 Ld9 Sv5+
Unit Type: Infantry, Superior is Infantry (Character)
Unit Composition: 2 Fusiliers, 1 Fusilier Superior
Wargear: Flak armor, Long rifle, Frag grenades, Krak grenades
Special Rules: Fusillade, Greater Destiny, Infiltrate, Stealth
Fusillade: If all models in a unit with at least one model with this special rule do not move during the Shooting Phase, they can choose to re-roll all failed To Hit rolls during the Shooting Phase. However, if they choose to do so, they cannot charge in the ensuing Assault Phase.
Option:
May take up to 7 more Fusiliers for 20pts each
Up to three Fusiliers may replace his long rifle for one of the following: - Sniper rifle: free - Meltagun: 10 pts/model - Plasma gun: 15 pts/model
The Fusilier Superior may take meltabombs: 5 pts
Heavy Support:
Judicator - 135 pts Despite utilizing the same chassis as the Penitent Engine, the Judicator is a revered object, for they serve the same function as Space Marine's Dreadnought: that of a mean for an experienced Templar to continue the fight after death. Instead of the Penitent Engine open cockpit, the Judicator is heavily armoured as well as armed to the teeth. The pilot enters combat with a cold tactical mind, but no less deadly, for their skills in battle, firepower and durability can cause far more damage than just a simple rampage of a desperate man
Spoiler:
Judicator WS4 BS4 S5 F12 S11 R11 I3 A3 HP3
Unit Type: Vehicle (Walker)
Unit Composition: 1 Judicator
Wargear: Twin-linked multi-melta, Dreadnought close combat weapons, heavy flamer, searchlight, smoke launcher
Special Rules: Crusader, Scouring Flame
Scouring Flame: At the start of the opposing player's Movement Phase, any enemy unit that is within 2" of one or more units with this special rule suffers D3 S4 AP5 hits. This applies even if the unit with this special rules is locked in combat.
Option: May replace heavy flamer with one of the following: - Heavy bolter: free - Multi-melta: free
May replace twin-linked multi-melta with one of the following: - Twin-linked heavy bolter: free - Twin-linked heavy flamer: free - Exorcist launcher: 50 pts
May take any of the following: - Extra armour: 10 pts - Fear siren: 10 pts
Revelator - 150 pts The Revelator is a walking icon of the might and faith of the Frateris Templar. Every inch of the walker is blessed by priests of the Ecclesiarchy, allows it to resist the unholy power of the Warp with ease. Carrying mighty weapons and shield created in the shape of an Aquila, the Revelator is the bane of heretics, and at the same time, the symbol of the Emperor. Everywhere it goes, enlightenment follows
Special Rules: Adamantium Will, Banishment, Crusader, Fear, Icon of Faith
Banishment: All models in an enemy unit within 12" of, or all enemy models locked in combat with the Revelator suffer a -1 penalty to their Invulnerable Save.
Icon of Faith: Enemy units locked in combat with the Revelator must take their Fear test at 3D6, discarding the lowest. Friendly non-vehicle models within 6" of the Revelator gain +1 to their Feel no Pain roll. If they do not already have the Feel no Pain special rule, they gain the Feel no Pain (6+) special rule.
Option:
May take any of the following: - Extra armour: 10 pts - Fear siren: 10 pts
Castigator - 135 pts Armed with devastating long-range weapons, the Castigator was designed to deliver judgement from afar. The walker’s deadly projectiles are launched into enemy ranks to explode in a cascade of deadly debris that smashs vehicle to pieces, and leaves enemy infantry blasted, burned, and praying for the release of death.
Spoiler:
Castigator WS4 BS4 S5 F12 S11 R11 I3 A3 HP3
Unit Type: Vehicle (Walker)
Unit Composition: 1 Castigator
Wargear: Absolver cannon, heavy flamer, searchlight, smoke launcher
Special Rules: Crusader, Tracking System
Tracking System: If the Castigator remains stationary in the Movement Phase, it gains the Interceptor special rule. In addition, it can choose to whether or not to use the Skyfire special rule at the start of the Shooting Phase. It does not have to use the Skyfire special rule, but if it does, all of its weapons (except Blast and Template weapons) are treated as having the Skyfire special rule.
Option: May replace Absolver cannon with Skywrath rocket launcher: 30 pts
May replace heavy flamer with one of the following: - Heavy bolter: free - Multi-melta: free
May take any of the following: - Extra armour: 10 pts - Fear siren: 10 pts
Ranged Weapons:
Spoiler:
Absolver cannon: R72" S8 AP3 Heavy 2, Twin-linked
Blessed Lasgun: R24", S3 AP- Rapid Fire, Blessed Blessed: Successful Invulnerable Save taken against Wounds caused by a weapon with this rule must be re-rolled.
Bomb Harness: One use only. A model with a Bomb Harness can make a Shooting attack using the following profile. Bomb Harness cannot be used to make Snap Shots, and cannot be used to attack Flyers, Flying Monstrous Creatures, or Skimmers. After rolling to hit, but before rolling to Wound, for each hit from a unit equip with Bomb Harness, the target must roll a D6. If the result is 4+, one Bomb Harness hit is discount and no longer has any effect on the target. Remove the model equipped with Bomb Harness as soon as it make a Shooting attack with Bomb Harness. R8" S8 AP3 Assault 1, Pinning, Blast, Suicide Attack! Suicide Attack !: A shooting attack made with Bomb Harness only scatter D6".
Consecrated halberd: R- S+1 AP4 Melee, Two-handed, Blessed Blessed: Successful Invulnerable Save taken against Wounds caused by a weapon with this rule must be re-rolled.
Null sword: R- S+1 AP4 Melee, Psychic Feedback Psychic Feedback: Unit with the Daemon, Psyker, Brotherhood of Psyker or Psychic Pilot special rule suffer one additional hit for each Wound or lost Hull Point caused by a weapon with this special rule.
Greater Destiny is a neat special rule to represent fanaticism of a different flavor than the Sisters'. Maybe add lots of Hatred to capture the Ecclesiarchical feel and emphasize these are nasty bastards?
I'm not sure about "Scouring Flame": it seems like it would rarely apply given the 2" range -- unless it's supposed to apply during close combat, in which case it's overpowered. Flame might not necessarily even be the Templars' shtick....
I'd certainly like to see a power-armored elite with a weapons option besides flamers. Having the regular troops wear carapace seems right. A mix of 3+ elites and 4+ regulars is actually pretty unusual and helps distinguish the army.
And making the army distinct is the trick: you don't want "Sisters plus testes" or "Sisters minus all the interesting parts." So it takes some hard thinking about what the army's theme and feel should be.
BURN IT DOWN BURN IT DOWN BABY BURN IT DOWN
Psienesis wrote: Well, if you check out Sister Sydney's homebrew/expansion rules, you'll find all kinds of units the Sisters could have, that fit with the theme of the Sisters (as a tabletop army) perfectly well, and are damn-near-perfectly balanced.
I'd like to see Frateris Templar be more like Crusaders. Something like Imperial Guard, but with Power Weapons and Storm Shields. Also, replace Commissars with a Chaplain like unit. Commanders would be replaced with Confessors, etc.
I wouldn't give them Power Armour, just Flak Armour. If they're not meant to be used with Horus Heresy, give them Carapace Armour. Solar Auxilia fills the role of the 4+ save Army in Horus Heresy already.
I would reword, greater destiny since as worded you could use it to reposition out of charge range. Even if you don't "advance" backwards you could use it to diagonally forward, increasing charge distance needed by up to 2 inches. You could also use it to place them in cover. I'd change it to the unit immediately moves d6" towards the closest enemy unit, if this move brings them into base contact with an enemy unit it counts as having charged in the ensuing assault phase.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/04/13 19:57:44
I always figured the Frateris Templar would have a Zealot option in Troops, like the unit that was run in Chapter Approved once, to represent all the mobs of the faithful that join them when they march to war.
Poorly equipped fanatics, like CSM cultists, but with an Imperium, burn-the-witch twist.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/04/14 02:21:50
Zealots would be good. And to J3f: I don't think there were Frateris Templars during the Heresy, seeing as they're an Ecclesiarchy thing and worshipping the Emperor was actively discouraged during his (His?) lifetime. They'd be for historical games set around the time the Sororitas came into existence or earlier. So pretty much everything from 40K would be around.
BURN IT DOWN BURN IT DOWN BABY BURN IT DOWN
Psienesis wrote: Well, if you check out Sister Sydney's homebrew/expansion rules, you'll find all kinds of units the Sisters could have, that fit with the theme of the Sisters (as a tabletop army) perfectly well, and are damn-near-perfectly balanced.
SisterSydney wrote: Zealots would be good. And to J3f: I don't think there were Frateris Templars during the Heresy, seeing as they're an Ecclesiarchy thing and worshipping the Emperor was actively discouraged during his (His?) lifetime. They'd be for historical games set around the time the Sororitas came into existence or earlier. So pretty much everything from 40K would be around.
Yup. Frateris Templar became a thing when the Temple of the Savior Emperor took over the Imperium after the Emperor got put on his golden toilet, bringing the whole "the Emperor is a god" thing into the mainstream. They existed until the end of the Age of Apostasy, when Vandire got his head chopped off. They'd be perfect for an Age of Apostasy campaign, or for a campaign based around the post-Emperor transformation of the Imperium into what it is today. In a big way, the Frateris Templar is the REASON the Imperium is what it is today. They kicked the butts of everyone else in the Imperium, which led to the establishment of the Eccesiarchy and the Imperial Creed.
And somewhere, the Word Bearers laughed bitterly at the irony, because the FT's Imperial Creed was based on their own pre-heresy dogma.
-Add Frateris Technical, Templar version Rhino and Chimera (DT)
-Add Crusader Squad (Elite)
- Add Fear Siren (Vehicle Equipments)
- Any Templar now can replace Lascarbine with Shotgun or Lasgun for free
- Flamebringer's Ld is improved by 1 (Grunt 8, Champion 9)
-Update rule for Greater Destiny (if a unit containing at least one model with this special rule suffers one or more Wounds during the opposing player's Shooting Phase, after all shooting attacks have been resolved, the unit can choose to immediately advance up to D6" towards the closest enemy unit, taking Difficult and Dangerous Terrain tests as normal. If this move brings them into base contact with an enemy unit, then they count as having made a charge in the ensuing opposing player's Assault Phase (that means they gain bonus Attacks for charging), but the enemy unit being charged at cannot fire Overwatch.)
-Scouring Flame now only inflicts D3 hits
-Lascarbine is now S3 AP- Assault 1 with Pinning
SisterSydney wrote: Greater Destiny is a neat special rule to represent fanaticism of a different flavor than the Sisters'. Maybe add lots of Hatred to capture the Ecclesiarchical feel and emphasize these are nasty bastards?
I'm not sure about "Scouring Flame": it seems like it would rarely apply given the 2" range -- unless it's supposed to apply during close combat, in which case it's overpowered. Flame might not necessarily even be the Templars' shtick....
I'd certainly like to see a power-armored elite with a weapons option besides flamers. Having the regular troops wear carapace seems right. A mix of 3+ elites and 4+ regulars is actually pretty unusual and helps distinguish the army.
And making the army distinct is the trick: you don't want "Sisters plus testes" or "Sisters minus all the interesting parts." So it takes some hard thinking about what the army's theme and feel should be.
Hmmm, yes, I will change the Scouring Flame rule how about D3 hits instead of D6 ?
Also, I have created another 3+ Elite and they are not armed with Flamer
J3f wrote: I'd like to see Frateris Templar be more like Crusaders. Something like Imperial Guard, but with Power Weapons and Storm Shields. Also, replace Commissars with a Chaplain like unit. Commanders would be replaced with Confessors, etc.
I wouldn't give them Power Armour, just Flak Armour. If they're not meant to be used with Horus Heresy, give them Carapace Armour. Solar Auxilia fills the role of the 4+ save Army in Horus Heresy already.
I would reword, greater destiny since as worded you could use it to reposition out of charge range. Even if you don't "advance" backwards you could use it to diagonally forward, increasing charge distance needed by up to 2 inches. You could also use it to place them in cover. I'd change it to the unit immediately moves d6" towards the closest enemy unit, if this move brings them into base contact with an enemy unit it counts as having charged in the ensuing assault phase.
Your suggestions to Greater Destiny and to the units are neat I'll apply that to the codex However, I must disagree with "no power armour", since the SoB can have loads and loads of Sisters with Power Armour, so I think a small number of Elite troops with PA are not out of the question.
fallinq wrote: I always figured the Frateris Templar would have a Zealot option in Troops, like the unit that was run in Chapter Approved once, to represent all the mobs of the faithful that join them when they march to war.
Poorly equipped fanatics, like CSM cultists, but with an Imperium, burn-the-witch twist.
Of course it is not the Imperial Church if there aren't a massive number of screaming, poorly-armed Zealots I have added them to the Codex
SisterSydney wrote: Zealots would be good. And to J3f: I don't think there were Frateris Templars during the Heresy, seeing as they're an Ecclesiarchy thing and worshipping the Emperor was actively discouraged during his (His?) lifetime. They'd be for historical games set around the time the Sororitas came into existence or earlier. So pretty much everything from 40K would be around.
Yup. Frateris Templar became a thing when the Temple of the Savior Emperor took over the Imperium after the Emperor got put on his golden toilet, bringing the whole "the Emperor is a god" thing into the mainstream. They existed until the end of the Age of Apostasy, when Vandire got his head chopped off. They'd be perfect for an Age of Apostasy campaign, or for a campaign based around the post-Emperor transformation of the Imperium into what it is today. In a big way, the Frateris Templar is the REASON the Imperium is what it is today. They kicked the butts of everyone else in the Imperium, which led to the establishment of the Eccesiarchy and the Imperial Creed.
And somewhere, the Word Bearers laughed bitterly at the irony, because the FT's Imperial Creed was based on their own pre-heresy dogma.
And another irony is that the Big E is worshipped after his death despite being an atheist
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I really like how this is shaping out, these definitely has the foundation for some really interesting units.
The Consecrated Halberds give me hesitation, however... they ignore all but a 2+ armor save and all Invulnerable saves? That seems a bit too powerful, most non-Space Marine HQs have a 3+ armor save at best and even more rely on their invulnerable. What do you think about one of these ideas: modifying the AP to around 5/6, having it lower Invulnerable saves by 1, or making the model reroll successful Invulnerable saves? That way the opponent still has a chance but it is still a lot less of one than normal.
- The Judicator now has option to take a Fear Siren, and can replace twin-linked multi-melta with twin-linked heavy bolter or twin-linked heavy flamer
- Fear Siren now forces enemy units within 6" to take a MORALE check instead of Ld test.
- Consecrated halberd AP is now 4, and force successful Invul Save to be re-rolled.
LtShade wrote: I really like how this is shaping out, these definitely has the foundation for some really interesting units.
The Consecrated Halberds give me hesitation, however... they ignore all but a 2+ armor save and all Invulnerable saves? That seems a bit too powerful, most non-Space Marine HQs have a 3+ armor save at best and even more rely on their invulnerable. What do you think about one of these ideas: modifying the AP to around 5/6, having it lower Invulnerable saves by 1, or making the model reroll successful Invulnerable saves? That way the opponent still has a chance but it is still a lot less of one than normal.
Most models (I think) have better Armour Save than Invul Save, so if the Consecrated Halberd has lower AP, then the target just have to take its Armour Save to totally negate the effect of the Blessed special rule. It, however, is more powerful vs Daemons, since most of them rely on Invul Save. But I think lowering the AP to, maybe, AP4, and forced re-roll successful Invul Save are justifiable ?
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This is shaping up nicely. Looks like the army's strengths are short-ranged shooting (like the Sisters) and assault (unlike the Sisters), with good to decent armor (whereas Sisters are consistently good).
A few questions:
- why are lascarbines Pinning? I can see them being Assault 2, but Pinning is pretty special and needs some justification.
- why are Crusaders and Flamebringers Strength 4? I know they have power armor, but regular humans in PA are consistently S:3 (eg Sisters, Inquisitors & their Acolytes). I'd rather give them a +1 Strength weapon than say they're somehow inherently as strong as an Astartes.
- still need to clarify whether Scouring Flame applies when locked in combat (I think so, but I'm not sure).
- does the Chimera have fire points like the Codex:Inquisition version or lasgun arrays like in Codex:Astra Militarum?
- a Rhino variant with Assault Vehicle? No no no no nope. Rhinos have their doors in the back. If you want an assault vehicle, which would be totally appropriate to this army, you gotta use/make something else. Something AWESOME.
BURN IT DOWN BURN IT DOWN BABY BURN IT DOWN
Psienesis wrote: Well, if you check out Sister Sydney's homebrew/expansion rules, you'll find all kinds of units the Sisters could have, that fit with the theme of the Sisters (as a tabletop army) perfectly well, and are damn-near-perfectly balanced.
That makes me much more comfortable, yes. Still very strong against Daemons and IG style infantry [so, in theory, Chaos anf Heretics are now scared of the blades].
edit: I second Sydney's concerns, especially on the Rhino but otherwise I'd play against this list.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/04/17 01:16:36
Thanks. Also: I want to know what the Deliverers are riding that makes them Cavalry. Horses? Robot horses? Or are they just really fething fast?
BURN IT DOWN BURN IT DOWN BABY BURN IT DOWN
Psienesis wrote: Well, if you check out Sister Sydney's homebrew/expansion rules, you'll find all kinds of units the Sisters could have, that fit with the theme of the Sisters (as a tabletop army) perfectly well, and are damn-near-perfectly balanced.
- Better clarified the Scouring Flame special rule.
- Fixed the error in Chimera's entry (Flamer -> Heavy Flamers; Add Access Points and Fire Points)
SisterSydney wrote: This is shaping up nicely. Looks like the army's strengths are short-ranged shooting (like the Sisters) and assault (unlike the Sisters), with good to decent armor (whereas Sisters are consistently good).
A few questions: - why are lascarbines Pinning? I can see them being Assault 2, but Pinning is pretty special and needs some justification. - why are Crusaders and Flamebringers Strength 4? I know they have power armor, but regular humans in PA are consistently S:3 (eg Sisters, Inquisitors & their Acolytes). I'd rather give them a +1 Strength weapon than say they're somehow inherently as strong as an Astartes. - still need to clarify whether Scouring Flame applies when locked in combat (I think so, but I'm not sure). - does the Chimera have fire points like the Codex:Inquisition version or lasgun arrays like in Codex:Astra Militarum? - a Rhino variant with Assault Vehicle? No no no no nope. Rhinos have their doors in the back. If you want an assault vehicle, which would be totally appropriate to this army, you gotta use/make something else. Something AWESOME.
LtShade wrote: That makes me much more comfortable, yes. Still very strong against Daemons and IG style infantry [so, in theory, Chaos anf Heretics are now scared of the blades]. edit: I second Sydney's concerns, especially on the Rhino but otherwise I'd play against this list.
- The lascarbine is Pinning because: a) from a gameplay perspective, I want a weapon that is between shotgun and lasgun, so that the Templar will have more options to suit whichever play styles the players want to use. And b) I assume it fires accurate suppressive fire, still automatic, but not as fast as the lasgun or automatic shotgun, enough to force the enemies to duck for cover or be riddled with holes, and/or have underslung grenade launcher like Tau Pulse carbine.
- I assume the Crusaders and Flamebringers have received some genetic modifications like the Arco-Flagellants, but without the mind control and lobotomization part.
- Yes, I have clarified it it also applies if the unit with that special rule is locked in combat.
- I don't have the Inquisition Codex with me, but the Chimera has Fire Points like the IG version, but does not have Lasgun Arrays.
- Hmmm... I've created a new Transport option, and removed the Rhino. I think you will like it. A transport based on the Leman Russ with twin-linked turret autocannon
SisterSydney wrote: Thanks. Also: I want to know what the Deliverers are riding that makes them Cavalry. Horses? Robot horses? Or are they just really fething fast?
Well, let's just say horse, faith, and some genetic enhancements thrown in a blender
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/04/17 20:07:54
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Fusiliers are beautifully brutal (and should be for 25 points per model).
I see your vision for the lascarbine, but it still doesn't sound like a las weapon. I'd suggest renaming it and giving it different fluff that better justifies the stats -- maybe "punishment gun" or "excoriator carbine"?
BURN IT DOWN BURN IT DOWN BABY BURN IT DOWN
Psienesis wrote: Well, if you check out Sister Sydney's homebrew/expansion rules, you'll find all kinds of units the Sisters could have, that fit with the theme of the Sisters (as a tabletop army) perfectly well, and are damn-near-perfectly balanced.
- Fusillier now costs 20 pts per model, minimum squad size reduced to 3
- Lascarbine's name changed to Concussion Carbine
SisterSydney wrote: Fusiliers are beautifully brutal (and should be for 25 points per model).
I see your vision for the lascarbine, but it still doesn't sound like a las weapon. I'd suggest renaming it and giving it different fluff that better justifies the stats -- maybe "punishment gun" or "excoriator carbine"?
I don't know how to actually price them, but isn't 25 pts somewhat too high ? But I still raised their cost to 20 ppm, just in case.
Hmmm...about the carbine... how about changing the name to concussion carbine ?
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/04/24 17:55:20
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Oops, I must've misread the point cost you had for the Fusiliers -- I thought it was already 25 ppm; 20 is probably fine.
Concussion carbine is an improvement, though it makes me want to add the "Concussive" rule to it: It can kill you outright, knock you flat, or stun your whole unit (pinning).
And I'm liking the emphasis on walkers -- specifically on medium-weight AV:12/11/11 walkers, rather than fragile Sentinels or heavy Dreadnoughts. That makes the army distinct from other Imperial armies in general and from the Sisters in particular -- whose only walker, the Penitent Engine, now looks like a dark remnant of an earlier, darker era in Ecclesiarchal history. All the walkers also combine with the Crusader (stormshield infantry), Repenters (2 CCW infantry), and Deliverers (cyborg horse cavalry!) to make the army much more melee-oriented than the Sisters, without making it superhumanly tough and strong.
I think the Absolver Cannon and Skywrath Rocket may be a bit overpowered, though.
BURN IT DOWN BURN IT DOWN BABY BURN IT DOWN
Psienesis wrote: Well, if you check out Sister Sydney's homebrew/expansion rules, you'll find all kinds of units the Sisters could have, that fit with the theme of the Sisters (as a tabletop army) perfectly well, and are damn-near-perfectly balanced.
- Change the Act of Atonement special rule of Repenters (the Repenter unit suffers one Wound per Wound saved by those friendly units through this Cover Save. Wounds inflicted in this way are distributed randomly (but can only be allocated to model with the Act of Atonement special rule, so if there is no model with this special rule in the unit, the resulted excess Wounds are wasted) have no AP value.)
- Raised the cost of upgrading to Skywrath rocket launcher on Castigator to 30 pts
SisterSydney wrote: Oops, I must've misread the point cost you had for the Fusiliers -- I thought it was already 25 ppm; 20 is probably fine.
Concussion carbine is an improvement, though it makes me want to add the "Concussive" rule to it: It can kill you outright, knock you flat, or stun your whole unit (pinning).
And I'm liking the emphasis on walkers -- specifically on medium-weight AV:12/11/11 walkers, rather than fragile Sentinels or heavy Dreadnoughts. That makes the army distinct from other Imperial armies in general and from the Sisters in particular -- whose only walker, the Penitent Engine, now looks like a dark remnant of an earlier, darker era in Ecclesiarchal history. All the walkers also combine with the Crusader (stormshield infantry), Repenters (2 CCW infantry), and Deliverers (cyborg horse cavalry!) to make the army much more melee-oriented than the Sisters, without making it superhumanly tough and strong.
I think the Absolver Cannon and Skywrath Rocket may be a bit overpowered, though.
The basic guns have Concussive special rule is somewhat OTT, however, you just give me the idea for another special weapon
Well, the Absolver is not so OP when you compare them to, say, Hellhound and its variants but may be the Skywrath is undercosted. How about raising the cost of upgrading to 30 pts ?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/04/25 15:58:24
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30 points is a lot, but probably a safe start. Costing is always tricky, and I've not had time to put all your units through the wringer of Ovion's methodology
Two questions about the revised Act of Atonement (emphasis mine)
Act of Atonement: Characters in a unit with at least one model with this special rule may choose to re-roll failed Look Out, Sir roll. In addition, friendly units partially or fully obscured from enemy units by a unit with at least one model with this special rule gains 4+ Cover Save. However, the Repenter unit suffers one Wound per Wound saved by those friendly units through this Cover Save. Wounds inflicted in this way are distributed randomly (but can only be allocated to model with the Act of Atonement special rule, so if there is no model with this special rule in the unit, the resulted excess Wounds are wasted) have no AP value.
The italicized bit seems like a sentence fragment left over from an earlier draft -- delete it? I don't see the sense of hits losing their AP value, if that's what's intended.
The bolded bit is confusing: If there are no models with the Act of Atonement rule in the unit, how is it soaking up wounds for the guys behind it in the first place?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/04/26 15:18:36
BURN IT DOWN BURN IT DOWN BABY BURN IT DOWN
Psienesis wrote: Well, if you check out Sister Sydney's homebrew/expansion rules, you'll find all kinds of units the Sisters could have, that fit with the theme of the Sisters (as a tabletop army) perfectly well, and are damn-near-perfectly balanced.
- Fix the Act of Atonement special rule. (Characters in a unit with at least one model with this special rule may choose to re-roll failed Look Out, Sir roll. In addition, friendly units partially or fully obscured from enemy units by a unit with at least one model with this special rule gains 4+ Cover Save. However, the Repenter unit suffers one Wound per Wound saved by those friendly units through this Cover Save. Wounds inflicted in this way are distributed randomly (but can only be allocated to model with the Act of Atonement special rule), and have their original AP.)
- Change the Sacred Ward Warlord Trait (Sacred Ward: The Warlord and his unit have a 6+ Invulnerable Save. If they already have Invulnerable Save, increase it by 1 (i.e 5+ becomes 4+)
- Add Footman Retinue (HQ)
- Add Crimson Preachers (HQ)
- Add Blessed Lasgun
- Concussion Carbine now has S4 AP5
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