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First of all, Mods, please do not move this thread. It will have battle reports in it eventually when the Ard Boyz preliminaries come around. But it will also contain Army List ideas and also a tactica on how to take on the Ard Boyz scenarios.


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Now for those who are unfamiliar with the Ard Boyz, it is a series of nation-wide tournaments in the United States at 2500pts. There are actually 3 rounds - the Preliminaries, the Semi-finals and the Finals. The pre-lims are on Aug. 3, the semi's are on Sept. 17th and the Finals is sometime in October. Basically, the top 3 finishers in the pre-lims will move onto the semi's. Then, the top 3 finishers from the semi's will then head onto the finals. Last year, the finals were held in 3 locations - Los Angeles, Chicago and Pennsylvania. Rules and scenarios for Ard Boyz preliminaries can be found here. Last year, the 3 winners of Ard Boyz were Chaos Daemons (Los Angeles), Chaos Space Marines (Pennsylvania) and Imperial Guards (Chicago).

For Ard Boyz, basically, it's just bring your most competitive lists. There are no Sportsmanship scores and no painting scores. Painting is not a requirement, though models do need to be what-you-see-is-what-you-get (WYSIWYG). I've seen some pretty "cheesy", "nutty" armies. This is where you'll see the uber-deathstar units and ultra-spammy MSU lists. I've seen a 30 fleeting assault terminator Shrike army against a 250+ green tide ork horde, 5 land raider marines vs 6 land raider CSM, dual nob bikers, dual seer councils, IG leafblower, BA razor-spam, Space wolves razor-spam, ork battlewagon-spam, fatecrusher lists....you name it.

Last year was actually my first year to the Ard Boyz, and I brought my Space Wolves. Unfortunately, my first match was against arguably one of the most dominant armies at the time - mechguards. I didn't bring one of those highly competitive pure MSU armies and narrowly lost to IG. I went on to win my next 2 matches, but the damage was already done. I was out of the running. BTW, the winner at our location was Janthkin and his bugs, but he was lucky to have ducked my 3 rune priests/2 Jaws of the World Wolf list (and on drop pods).

This year, I have a much loftier goal. I'm bringing my Grey Knights, and I think that they could make it to the Semi-finals (meaning I'd have to place in the top 3). Well, maybe...depending on which build I bring. Yes, while I've been mainly playing my Crowe-purifier-dread GK's as of late, I may not necessarily be bringing them to the Ard Boyz. After much experimentation, it's come down to 2 lists and I'll let you, the voters, decide which I take.


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Grey Knights 2500 List #1 - Purifier-Dread Spam

Crowe

Psyfleman Vendread - 2x TL-Autocannons, Psybolt Ammo
Psyfleman Vendread - 2x TL-Autocannons, Psybolt Ammo
Vindicare

5x Purifiers - 2x Psycannons, 2x Halberds, 1x MC-Hammer, Rhino w/Dozers + Searchlights
5x Purifiers - 2x Psycannons, 2x Halberds, 1x MC-Hammer, Rhino w/Dozers + Searchlights
5x Purifiers - 2x Psycannons, 2x Halberds, 1x MC-Hammer, Rhino w/Dozers + Searchlights
5x Purifiers - 2x Psycannons, 2x Halberds, 1x Warding Stave, Rhino w/Dozers + Searchlights
5x Purifiers - 2x Psycannons, 2x Halberds, 1x Warding Stave, Rhino w/Dozers + Searchlights
5x Purifiers - 2x Psycannons, 2x Halberds, 1x Warding Stave, Rhino w/Dozers + Searchlights

5x Interceptors - 1x Psycannon, 2x Halberds, 1x Sword, 1x MC-Hammer

Psyfleman Dread - 2x TL-Autocannons, Psybolt Ammo
Psyfleman Dread - 2x TL-Autocannons, Psybolt Ammo
Psyfleman Dread - 2x TL-Autocannons, Psybolt Ammo


This list is my tried-and-true list. It is an extremely balanced all-comer's GK list that is also incredibly flexible. It's also got some very nasty anti-MSU firepower and it can hold it's own in assault against most armies. There isn't any army that this list can't handle. I have supreme confidence in it, and if I really want to win, this is the list I should take.



Grey Knights 2500 List #2 - Interceptors-Foot-knights

Grandmaster - Rad Grenades
Librarian - Warding Stave, Dark Excommunication, Might of Titan, Quicksilver, Sanctuary, Shrouding, 3x Servo-skulls - 225

10x Strike Squads - 2x Psycannons, Psybolt Ammo
10x Strike Squads - 2x Psycannons, Psybolt Ammo
9x Strike Squads - 1x Psycannon, Psybolt Ammo

10x Interceptors - 2x Psycannons, 3x Halberds, 1x MC-Hammer, Psybolt Ammo
10x Interceptors - 2x Psycannons, 3x Halberds, 1x MC-Hammer, Psybolt Ammo
10x Interceptors - 2x Psycannons, 3x Halberds, 1x MC-Hammer, Psybolt Ammo

Psyfleman Dread - 2x TL-Autocannons, Psybolt Ammo
Psyfleman Dread - 2x TL-Autocannons, Psybolt Ammo
Psyfleman Dread - 2x TL-Autocannons, Psybolt Ammo


List #2 isn't quite as competitive nor is it as balanced as my first list. With this list, I'm not so sure I will make it to the semi-finals. However, it's got 2 things here that I love - interceptors and S5 stormbolter-spam. Also, it's got the underdog feel to it, and as a longtime daemonhunter player, that is a role that I've already gotten used to. It's also what's made me a better player. As a matter of fact, I relish taking the underdog army and doing well with it.

But don't get me wrong. It's still a very strong list IMO and could surprise a few people. We're talking about 60+ force weapon-toting MEQ's here with S5 assault 2 guns. I'll use the 9-man strike squad as a screening unit if I have to, and they will provide a 3+ shrouded cover save to the rest of my army. Interceptors are just awesome if used properly. Dreads and psycannons should provide the necessary AT, and if you don't think I have enough scoring bodies, Grand Strategy is going to make the interceptors scoring and then they can combat-squad as well.


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So my main question at this moment is - which should I take to the Ard Boyz? Comments and opinions welcomed.


Coming up at some future date, a tactica on how will my knights take on the 3 Ard Boyz scenarios.

I think your crowe list will do better, because the second list is lacking lots of long range anti-tank, whereas the first has lots of it.

Unleash Crowe, I say

It is easier to take a weak list to the Ard Boyz as the player will have a built in excuse if they don't win. It is much harder to bring your best army to the Ard Boyz as the player will have more pressure on them to win and no excuses.

woodbok wrote:I think your crowe list will do better, because the second list is lacking lots of long range anti-tank, whereas the first has lots of it.

Yeah, I totally agree. My purifier list is without a doubt the stronger list IMO.

However, you are really under-estimating the amount of AT list #2 has. While it only has half the ranged AT as the purifier build, on the whole, it may potentially be better at cracking open tanks than my purifier build...and that includes land raiders!

Stormcrow wrote:Unleash Crowe, I say

From the looks of the poll, I may well do so.

DarthDiggler wrote:It is easier to take a weak list to the Ard Boyz as the player will have a built in excuse if they don't win. It is much harder to bring your best army to the Ard Boyz as the player will have more pressure on them to win and no excuses.

I intend to win with both. However, with the interceptor list, it'll just be harder. If I bring them, it'll probably be more for fun. Honestly, I'm not sure if my interceptors can win it...but I'll try my best if I end up bringing them.

I say the first list. It has more reliable and durable anti-vehicle and you're familiar with it.

You're looking at 20 S8 48" shots versus 12 and 52/26 S7 rending 24" shots versus 44/22 and the second list will be using the psycannon in assault mode more as they'll be moving outside vehicles more.

First list wins easily on firepower.

In melee, the first list is ghoing to do better against hordes and has 65 basic attacks from its infantry as opposed to 68 -- not really a difference.

Scoring-wise, six units should be enough and so both lists have it covered. certainly the second list has super-redundancy built into it in that regard but I think too much and it might in fact benefit more from re-rolling to wound rolls of 1, helping it in both melee and shooting.

Durability-wise the second list does have more bodies: 59 infantry as opposed to 35, but I don't think taking losses will be so much of an issue.

the main things the second list has is some fearsome mobility from the interceptor-spam which could be useful for objective contesting/grabbing in the late game, potentially useful tactical options from Grand Strategy and the Librarian's powers. Now I'm a huge fan of the Librarian in a list with Paladins and/or storm ravens and in fairness his Sanctuary power will be a tremendous asset for this list as it should interfere with a lot of assaults. But I think you might want to drop the warding stave, quicksilver (lots of halberds anyway and yiou don't really have an assault army) and consider taking Warp Rift instead of DE or just dropping DE altogether. The points saved could give the GM a psycannon. I think the Librarian wants to hide behind the lines in this list, not get mixed into close-quarters fighting.

But take the first list. I think it's much stronger.

Aren't the purifiers fearless? I would go with them. With ld 9 you fail it at the worst possible times.

I would say the first list. Judging from your previous reports your Interceptors seem to die pretty quickly, often losing whole squads at a time. The extra protection and mobility given by the Transports would probably serve better than Interceptors on foot.

The second list is better for the missions in round 1. Two of the three are annihilation style missions, and as list two has half the kps and each is harder to get, I think it will perform better from a Meta perspective.

List #1 seems to me to be at least x2 times stronger than #2.

Have you had any practice games with List #1 and how did they go?

Both lists are strong.

Reecius makes a compelling argument for the second list. It should do better in Annihilation missions and all those storm bolters should hold off horde. However, it may struggle against mech heavy armies such as IG and BA Razor-spam.

IMO play whichever build you feel comfortable with.

Artemo wrote:
the main things the second list has is some fearsome mobility from the interceptor-spam which could be useful for objective contesting/grabbing in the late game, potentially useful tactical options from Grand Strategy and the Librarian's powers. Now I'm a huge fan of the Librarian in a list with Paladins and/or storm ravens and in fairness his Sanctuary power will be a tremendous asset for this list as it should interfere with a lot of assaults. But I think you might want to drop the warding stave, quicksilver (lots of halberds anyway and yiou don't really have an assault army) and consider taking Warp Rift instead of DE or just dropping DE altogether. The points saved could give the GM a psycannon. I think the Librarian wants to hide behind the lines in this list, not get mixed into close-quarters fighting.

But take the first list. I think it's much stronger.

I already have some pretty good tactics in mind using the mobility of the interceptors, and it doesn't involve just contesting/grabbing objectives. Rather, they're actually going to be the focal point of my offense. Now imagine 30 interceptors going to the flank of the army. Not too nasty? How about potentially 30 interceptors scouting due to the GM and then aided with the librarian's Might of Titans. Think they could make a mess of a mech parking lot? Quite possibly if pulled off properly.

I can possibly drop the warding stave, 1 servo-skull and 1 power to give my GM a psycannon....or I can raise the 9-striker unit to 10 w/2 psycannons and give my interceptors 1 more halberd each. Actually, that may be a better way to go:


Grey Knights 2500 List #2 - Interceptors-Foot-knights

Grandmaster - Rad Grenades
Librarian - Dark Excommunication, Might of Titan, Sanctuary, Shrouding, 2x Servo-skulls - 180

10x Strike Squads - 2x Psycannons, Psybolt Ammo
10x Strike Squads - 2x Psycannons, Psybolt Ammo
10x Strike Squads - 2x Psycannons, Psybolt Ammo

10x Interceptors - 2x Psycannons, 4x Halberds, 1x MC-Hammer, Psybolt Ammo
10x Interceptors - 2x Psycannons, 4x Halberds, 1x MC-Hammer, Psybolt Ammo
10x Interceptors - 2x Psycannons, 4x Halberds, 1x MC-Hammer, Psybolt Ammo

Psyfleman Dread - 2x TL-Autocannons, Psybolt Ammo
Psyfleman Dread - 2x TL-Autocannons, Psybolt Ammo
Psyfleman Dread - 2x TL-Autocannons, Psybolt Ammo


But right now, it's looking more and more like I'll be taking my Purifier list.

The Unforgiven Saint wrote:Aren't the purifiers fearless? I would go with them. With ld 9 you fail it at the worst possible times.

Yeah, that's one of the things I really like about them. Many times, I've had my strikers (and even interceptors) break and fall back but not once has my purifiers fallen back yet.

Valkyrie wrote:I would say the first list. Judging from your previous reports your Interceptors seem to die pretty quickly, often losing whole squads at a time. The extra protection and mobility given by the Transports would probably serve better than Interceptors on foot.

I agree. Fearless purifiers in transports are much more resilient than interceptors out in the open. But my interceptors could survive. Normally, I use them as a harassing, anti-infantry unit that stays just outside of the threat range of more assaulty opponents. Against certain armies (like IG, Tau or MSU-MEQ armies), then I will play them more aggressively as my opponent should be more concerned with my assault than I am with theirs.

But I don't expect most of my interceptors to live through too many games. They are first and foremost sacrificial units that are meant to give me a tactical advantage over my opponents. The real units that need to survive are my strikers, especially in objectives-based games.

Reecius wrote:The second list is better for the missions in round 1. Two of the three are annihilation style missions, and as list two has half the kps and each is harder to get, I think it will perform better from a Meta perspective.

While that may be true, what list #2 lacks is the protection of transports. There's a reason why mech-lists are king right now and foot-armies are considered underdog armies. While my list #2 has the mobility to actually surpass #1, IMO it doesn't have as much resiliency. So while list #1 has almost double the KP's as list #2, list #2 is more likely to get tabled by an extremely nasty opponent like leafblower IG or even your very own Bjorn wolves.

Later on, I will analyze how I think either lists will stack up in each of the Ard Boyz scenario.

Grey Therion wrote:List #1 seems to me to be at least x2 times stronger than #2.

Have you had any practice games with List #1 and how did they go?

I also think #1 is the stronger list, though I don't know by how much as I haven't actually played with list #2 yet. Lol. Yeah, it's a new build but it's the type of footslogging build that I would probably use in a competitive environment.

I've actually had 1 game with a variant of list #1. In that list, I had 6 dreads instead and 5 purifiers + 1 striker squad. I played against an Ard Boyz DE list with Vect using scenario #1 (Kill points with the traitor) and I absolutely massacred him while also killing the traitor who was hiding (shunted my interceptors and stormboltered him to death). Now he wasn't running pure MSU DE, but he was a pretty experienced player and a good tactician. I don't think my list #2 would have fared as well against his list as he brought 2 uber-incubi units with FNP haemys and Vect. Actually, that game reminds me of our game. I was dominating his army for the most part until finally, he just said f*ck it and went all out aggressive, just like you did with your GK army against my nids. However, the difference here is that my purifiers are just too strong and that he didn't have the fortune that you had with your dreadknight wiping out most of my tyranids.

I replaced one of the dreads for the vindicare because I think 1) 5 dreads is probably enough and 2) you usually see a lot of land raiders at Ard Boyz tournaments.

SabrX wrote:Both lists are strong.

Reecius makes a compelling argument for the second list. It should do better in Annihilation missions and all those storm bolters should hold off horde. However, it may struggle against mech heavy armies such as IG and BA Razor-spam.

IMO play whichever build you feel comfortable with.

Without actually having played list #2 yet, I don't really want to say that it will do better in KP games. Because of it's low number of KP's, it would seem reasonable to make that assumption. However, my purifier knights have been dominating and I've nearly-tabled a few opponents with them before (or we stopped the games before it went that far). But I do think that list #2 is better against hordes despite the lack of Cleansing Flame. Against mech, there is no question list #1 is superior.

I haven't played list #2 yet. Hopefully I can get in 1 practice game before the tournament. But I think I'll feel right at home with list #2. I may even relish the challenge.

I like list #2 better.

That being said, you have 2 extremes and I would go with something more in the middle of both of them.

I'd hate to be the Daemons of Chaos player going against list #2.

I don;t know if you'd really have so much trouble with leaf blower with list 2. Particularly if you go first. You shunt all the interceptors right in the IG player's face, and shoot. The strikes run forward and are in range to shoot turn 2. After that, you just keep advancing and firing until you can assault and it's a wrap. The typical leaf blower these days is a combination of manticores and hydras, which are much worse against light mech spam than MEQs. What you would really have to fear would be Vendettas and Veterans. But again, apply massive pressure turn one with shunt moves, take out vendettas with Psyfilemen's, and you are assaulting turn 2. That means IG are toast.

Against Razorspam, again, you can hurt any of them with Pysbolt ammo.

This is all theory though, of course. Try both, but I think given the missions, you'd be better off with list 2.

list one tbh, or you will suffer template death,

grey knights are still nubs in powerarmour, they are good, uber if you want but die as easly, keep taht in mind...

Army number one has resillience in every way, army number two will suffer in straight out shootouts..

In list 2, why not take 2 Venerable Dreadnoughts instead of the 3 ordinary ones? More effective over the game and less KPs.

Valek wrote:list one tbh, or you will suffer template death,

grey knights are still nubs in powerarmour, they are good, uber if you want but die as easly, keep taht in mind...

Army number one has resillience in every way, army number two will suffer in straight out shootouts..

But what pie plates to you mean? It is uncommon to see ap3 pie anymore. It's all Manticores these days.

I suppose if you did come up against some random list that had Russ' and Bassies you'd suffer, but the typical "net" lists out there don't have the ability to sweep MEQs off the table anymore. Everything is geared towards killing av12 vehicles these days. Plasma vets would be the worst of it in a typical leaf blower list.

Honestly though, either list would be good. List 1 has more raw power, but I really do feel list 2 is the smarter meta choice.

Either way, it will be interesting to see how things go!

I think Reecius may have the right of it, but I still don't have enough GK practice to tell for sure.

List 1. List 2 is a little too gimmicky IMO; its interesting and will throw people off, but dunno if it has what it takes

Now I will be evaluating the 3 Ard Boyz scenarios and how my 2 potential lists will stack up to them. First of all, you can find the Ard Boyz scenarios here.


Scenario #1 - Git Dat Dirty Git!
This is a Kill Point mission using Pitched Battle deployment. There is a special rule - each player gives the other player a troop choice model. That "traitor" model is an Independent Character and worth 5KP's if killed.

A massacre is 10+ KP's, a major victory is 7-9 KP's and a minor victory is 1-6 KP's more than your opponent.


Special Rules: No Scout moves (but there is Outflanking) and Night Fight on turn 1.

With the exception of the traitor, this scenario isn't too different from regular Annihilation missions. As usual, this type of mission favors low KP armies and hurts MSU builds. However, the type of army that may benefit most from this scenario are certain deathstar builds. Try killing the traitor who is attached to the 10-man paladin unit with Draigo and librarian or the 10 assault terminators or the Swarmlord's unit with 3 tyrant guards and a Tyranid Prime. However, on the bright side, TWC hero-hammer wolves, nob bikers and jetseer councils will be severely hampered by the traitor's restrictive movement.

My list #2 (Interceptor knights) may possibly do better in this scenario with a lot less Kill Points than my list #1 (purifier-dreads). Also, attaching the traitor to my 10-man strikers with the Grandmaster and a Librarian casting Shrouding makes him much more resilient than attaching him to my 5-man purifier units.

Then again, I know my purifier-knights have the potential to table/dominate opponents. The interceptors? I'm not so sure.


Advantage: List #2 - Interceptor Knights.



Scenario #2 - Whoz Got Da Motz!
This is a modified Seize Ground mission using Spearhead deployment. There are 5 objectives, with 1 objective in the very center of the board and 4 objectives each in the center of the table quarters. The center objective is worth 4 points, each objective in the players' deployment zones are worth 1 point, and the 2 objectives in the empty table quarters are worth 2 points each.

A massacre is 5 or more objectives points than your opponent, major victory is 3-4 more points and minor victory is 1-2 more points than your opponent.


Special Rules: 6 turns only. Wow...no infiltrating, scouting or outflanking! Night-fighting on Turn 6.

I can see this scenario hurting foot lists, especially if they go up against an IG leafblower list. Cannot infiltrate or outflank units like genestealers or kroots, so you either leave them in normal reserves or deploy them on the board all nicely clustered up due to spearhead. Have fun against a template/blast-heavy army. At least this will give daemons a chance against armies with a lot of infiltrators (stealer-shock nids or kroot-heavy Tau). It also helps a little against Warp Quake grey knights, though the only real solution against them is to go first.

While my interceptor-knights have the mobility to easily reach any of the objectives, they will get hurt if I go up against blast-heavy armies and don't get first turn. Also, while Grand Strategy will give me more scoring units, I'm not sure that my foot-knights have the resiliency to hold objectives like my mechanized purifiers can. While the number of infantry in my footlist is 2x that of my purifier army, LD9 means that 3 out of 4 times, a unit is going to break. And so far, I've only lost all my purifiers in only 1 game ever.


Advantage: List #1 - Purifier-Dreads.



Scenario #3 - Head of Da Snake!
This scenario uses Victory Points and the Dawn of War deployment. Each general also nominates 1 HQ choice. That HQ is worth 2x VP's. Pretty straight-forwards scenario.

Massacre = 1126-2500 more VP's than your opponent. Major victory = 751-1125 more VP's. Minor victory = 376-750 VP's more than your opponent.


Special Rules: No scouting and no infiltrating (there is outflanking though).

Victory Points are the forte of MSU-armies. So you kill a rhino? In normal games, that would give you 1KP but here, you only get 35-40 VP's. So while in a KP game, if you kill all 6 of my rhinos, I'm down quite a lot with 6 KP's lost. However, in VP missions, I've only lost 240pts out of my 2500pts army. That's not even 10% of my army! Victory points are what makes MSU-armies so damned tough. You could kill 5 of my units, but I just need to kill 1 of your more expensive units and I'll still be ahead. Without a doubt, my purifier-dread list, which is a MSU-army, should have the advantage here.


Advantage: List #1 - Purifier-Dreads.





Automatically Appended Next Post:

Blackmoor wrote:I like list #2 better.

That being said, you have 2 extremes and I would go with something more in the middle of both of them.

I have thought about a list with a mix of the 2....but couldn't really find one that I really liked. So either I take my battle-tested purifier-dreads or I wanted to go all infantry with interceptors as my central focus and maximum stormbolter fire. I've even considered a list with 30 interceptors, 1 unit of terminators and 50 stormbolter henchmen backed by 3 dreads and led by Coteaz and Karamazov. That would be a really fun list, but I just didn't have the models.

Anyways, it's looking more and more like that purifier-dreads will be the one I will be taking. Well, at least they're already finished and I don't have to do much work on that army (compared to my all-infantry interceptor list).

SabrX wrote:I'd hate to be the Daemons of Chaos player going against list #2.

They wouldn't have to worry about Warp Quake though. I would give them a chance to land so that I can blast the heck out of them with my stormbolters.

Reecius wrote:I don;t know if you'd really have so much trouble with leaf blower with list 2. Particularly if you go first. You shunt all the interceptors right in the IG player's face, and shoot. The strikes run forward and are in range to shoot turn 2. After that, you just keep advancing and firing until you can assault and it's a wrap. The typical leaf blower these days is a combination of manticores and hydras, which are much worse against light mech spam than MEQs. What you would really have to fear would be Vendettas and Veterans. But again, apply massive pressure turn one with shunt moves, take out vendettas with Psyfilemen's, and you are assaulting turn 2. That means IG are toast.

Against Razorspam, again, you can hurt any of them with Pysbolt ammo.

This is all theory though, of course. Try both, but I think given the missions, you'd be better off with list 2.

Yeah, I really need some practice with list #2. Never used that list yet, though I have almost all the models.

Valek wrote:list one tbh, or you will suffer template death,

grey knights are still nubs in powerarmour, they are good, uber if you want but die as easly, keep taht in mind...

Army number one has resillience in every way, army number two will suffer in straight out shootouts..

The only template/blast army they really fear is IG with 9 russes. But it seems as if that is a dying build, just as land raider-spam is. My only concern is playing this type of army in Spearhead where I can't spread my guys out. Against such an army, I may have to reserve most of my army, leaving just the GM + 1 squad on the board and out of LOS so that he can bring in the rest of the army using Psychic Communion.

Artemo wrote:In list 2, why not take 2 Venerable Dreadnoughts instead of the 3 ordinary ones? More effective over the game and less KPs.

Because of volume of fire. I don't really care if they die. My interceptor-build isn't that KP-heavy anyways. What I do prefer though is the 12 TL-shots over the increased resiliency. It's the same reason why I have about 30 strikers instead of 2 smallish strike units and 1 purifier unit. In this type of army, I want the numbers.

Mannahnin wrote:I think Reecius may have the right of it, but I still don't have enough GK practice to tell for sure.

You probably will as GK's are starting to climb up in the tournament scene (assuming you go to tournaments often). But foot-GK's are really an untested build, at least in the tournament scene. Most people there tend to flock towards mech-GK's unless they're playing paladins.

It's also a reason why I want to give them (my interceptor-knights) a try at a competitive event.

Zid wrote:List 1. List 2 is a little too gimmicky IMO; its interesting and will throw people off, but dunno if it has what it takes

Not really. It's kind of like footdar or an all-jump-infantry BA army. They're a very tactical army that doesn't necessarily have to rely on a gimmick to win (though that just helps them to win faster). The GK alpha-strike is just like any other alpha-strike army. You can alpha-strike to cripple the opponent, but it's got enough balance in it that you don't have to rely on just that tactic. But you have to know how to play them. Yes, they do require more thought in terms of strategy compared to, say, my purifier dreads, but if you're a savvy general, IMO they can be a very good army just like footdar.

I'd probably go for the Purifier Dread list. it seems the tougher of the two lists and is much harder to defend against than the 2nd list may be IMHO.
At the very least, what really sells it for me is that you know it that much better; you've had so much more experience with it.

Whilst it does suffer more in KP games as Reece (and others) so rightly pointed out, you're still a GK army so would probably still have less KP than many and the Dreads at least should be a tough cookie for your opponent to gain kill points from.
The only thing bugging me with list 1 is that it doesn't seem to have that much depth to me; at 2500pts you can afford LOTS, but the heard of your lists is still 5-man MeQ squads, which at 2500pts may be relatively easy to take out it seems. I'm just not sure it has the depth a list at such a pts level should have.
Personally, I'm thinking that you may do better to replace 2 Purifier Squads (and a Dread?+) with a 10-man squad of Strikes or Purifiers (or even Termies or Pali's) and a Land Raider.
I believe a 10-man squad would have greater sticking power, as would a Land Raider. With the AV14 and all the Dreads and remaining rhinos you'd be fine with armour saturation, whilst you'd half the number of kill points these units would give away...

Just my thoughts man.

Unfortunately, that is one of the limitations of purifier-dread army - it's eliteness. I basically took my 2K and asked myself, what do I want to do with it? First of all, I wanted more scoring, so I added 1 more squad of purifiers (at 200+ pts per). Then, I felt that I could use more shooting at 2.5K so I added another dread (135pts). Finally, I felt I needed to address its main weakness - mobility. Initially, I was thinking stormraven at first but thought that with just 1 stormraven, it would be too much of a target and easily shot down. But finally, I settled on a smallish 5-man unit of interceptors. They're small enough that they wouldn't be considered a high priority target.

I had also considered a land raider for some more durability. That would mean I would have to give up either more bodies (troops) or my mobility (interceptors). In my LR-list, I could only fit 5 scoring units in there with one of them being a strike squad.

Anyways, I wasn't as comfortable with either of those lists as I am with my current one. So far in all my games using my purifier-dread build (with just 25 troop infantry at 2K), only in 2 games did I lose all my infantry (against Tau and tyranids). Overall, I find that those 5-man units are pretty resilient, especially with my dreads blowing away any guns that could potentially hurt them from range. Also, 5-man units are easier to hide out of LOS. They can actually hide behind a wrecked rhino even. That helps to increase their survivability as well.

I have a practice match coming up tomorrow against a very competitive, mechanized BA army. I've decided to bring my Purifier-dread army, though if time permits, I may be able to get in 2 games and use both lists. Anyways, this is his list:



2500 Blood Angels
Librarian – Blood Lance, Shield of Sanguinius
Honour Guard – 2x Meltaguns, Las/plas Razorback
Librarian – Blood Lance, Shield of Sanguinius
Honour Guard – 2x Meltaguns, Las/plas Razorback

5x Assault Marines – 1x Flamer, Las/plas Razorback
5x Assault Marines – 1x Flamer, Las/plas Razorback
5x Assault Marines – 1x Flamer, Las/plas Razorback
5x Assault Marines – 1x Meltagun, Las/plas Razorback
5x Assault Marines – 1x Meltagun, Las/plas Razorback
5x Assault Marines – 1x Meltagun, Las/plas Razorback

Baal Predator – TL-Asscan, Heavy Bolter Sponsoons
Baal Predator – TL-Asscan, Heavy Bolter Sponsoons
2x Land Speeder Typhoons – Heavy Bolter

Predator – Autocannon, Lascannon Sponsoons
Predator – Autocannon, Lascannon Sponsoons
Predator – Autocannon, Lascannon Sponsoons



If my purifiers can handle this list, then they can handle any type of MSU-mech list. Question is, can they handle it? Thoughts?

Eh, if you dumped the interceptors and rhinos and bought razorbacks with psybolt ammo in their place, that crowe list would be a lot better

Fire points say no!

EDIT:

I believe Fortitude will dominate the match. These are just too many psycannons to bear, and your infantry outclasses his in all aspects. Finally, you're infantry can kill his tanks. His can't... at least it has more difficulties and range problems. And you're can easily dominate his infantry too.

This could be a tough matchup. If you get first turn you can cause a lot of damage to his razorbacks though the preds are a little tougher to handle This gives you the advantage of forcing his infantry to move forward on foot and you can effectively stay out of melta range and have a lot less lascannons to worry about. If he gets first turn he can do the exact same thing to your rhinos. Smart decisions will have to be made for whoever gets 2nd turn since you both have some significant firepower in your lists. Castling up away from some some of the firepower would be my suggestion, but knowing that the BA transports are fast may hamper that...Honestly I don't know who would win, but it seems to me it will be an uphill battle for GK.

That was the sort of armielist i was thinking your footknights will just die in droves. ap2 shooting deluxe... but coupled with vindicators a bit like Mercer is playing.

I think you wont make much chance tbh, you will need first turn! and he has two hoods to stop overuse of fortitude...

Wow. that is a very powerful list...
I think I have to agree with the sentiments that whomever gets 1st turn gets a significant advantage, but that could also depend on terrain coverage too, so I really couldn't say in advance...
In Dawn of War or an objective game I'd probably favour the Grey Knights but it's a very tricky decision clearly!

I look forward to hearing how it goes man, good luck. I understand your decision regarding the Land Raider too, although I'm really not sold on the 5-man interceptors yet...

Practice Ard Boyz game against mechanized BA - I played against a heavily proxied game using Witch Hunter/Space Wolf count-as Blood Angels. We used Ard Boyz scenario #3. This report will be briefer and not as detailed as my usual reports as we kind of rushed through it in order to try to get another game in.


Grey Knights 2500 List #1 - Purifier-Dread Spam (My list)

Crowe

Psyfleman Vendread - 2x TL-Autocannons, Psybolt Ammo
Psyfleman Vendread - 2x TL-Autocannons, Psybolt Ammo
Vindicare

5x Purifiers - 2x Psycannons, 2x Halberds, 1x MC-Hammer, Rhino w/Dozers + Searchlights
5x Purifiers - 2x Psycannons, 2x Halberds, 1x MC-Hammer, Rhino w/Dozers + Searchlights
5x Purifiers - 2x Psycannons, 2x Halberds, 1x MC-Hammer, Rhino w/Dozers + Searchlights
5x Purifiers - 2x Psycannons, 2x Halberds, 1x Warding Stave, Rhino w/Dozers + Searchlights
5x Purifiers - 2x Psycannons, 2x Halberds, 1x Warding Stave, Rhino w/Dozers + Searchlights
5x Purifiers - 2x Psycannons, 2x Halberds, 1x Warding Stave, Rhino w/Dozers + Searchlights

5x Interceptors - 1x Psycannon, 2x Halberds, 1x Sword, 1x MC-Hammer

Psyfleman Dread - 2x TL-Autocannons, Psybolt Ammo
Psyfleman Dread - 2x TL-Autocannons, Psybolt Ammo
Psyfleman Dread - 2x TL-Autocannons, Psybolt Ammo



2500 Blood Angels
Librarian – Blood Lance, Shield of Sanguinius
Honour Guard – 2x Meltaguns, Las/plas Razorback
Librarian – Blood Lance, Shield of Sanguinius
Honour Guard – 2x Meltaguns, Las/plas Razorback

5x Assault Marines – 1x Flamer, Las/plas Razorback
5x Assault Marines – 1x Flamer, Las/plas Razorback
5x Assault Marines – 1x Flamer, Las/plas Razorback
5x Assault Marines – 1x Meltagun, Las/plas Razorback
5x Assault Marines – 1x Meltagun, Las/plas Razorback
5x Assault Marines – 1x Meltagun, Las/plas Razorback

Baal Predator – TL-Asscan, Heavy Bolter Sponsoons
Baal Predator – TL-Asscan, Heavy Bolter Sponsoons
2x Land Speeder Typhoons – Heavy Bolter

Predator – Autocannon, Lascannon Sponsoons
Predator – Autocannon, Lascannon Sponsoons
Predator – Autocannon, Lascannon Sponsoons


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Scenario #3 - Head of Da Snake!

Mission: Victory Points - 1 nominated HQ unit worth 2x VP's.

Blood Angels - 1 Honour Guards.

Grey Knights - Crowe.

Deployment: Dawn of War

Initiative: Grey Knights

Massacre = 1126-2500 more VP's than your opponent. Major victory = 751-1125 more VP's. Minor victory = 376-750 VP's more than your opponent.

Special Rules: No scouting and no infiltrating (there is outflanking though).


-------------------------------------------------------------------


Deployment:

Map of the terrain:


My deployment:


I deploy 2 empty purifier rhinos up around the 24" deployment line and in cover. Actually, looking at the photo now, it looks as if I deployed 1 rhino a little too far forwards. I have no reserves. Everything will be coming in on Turn 1.

BA deploys nothing. Everything will walk on. He fails to seize.


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Grey Knights 1

Everything moves in and runs/pops smoke. 2 deployed rhinos double backwards. Despite his models on the table, my opponent is not actually on the board yet. His units will be coming in on his turn.


Blood Angels 1

Now he moves on. Immolators are las/plas razors. Predators only have autocannon turrets, and the 2 leman russes are actually proxied baal predators. His 2 baals pop smoke. All his other vehicles fail to spot any of my units.


Grey Knights 2

Interceptors move towards the left flank (from my perspective). The sword dies to dangerous terrain. They then run.


I didn't think my vindicare has good LOS/range so I opt to run him up the ruins instead. Foot purifiers run forwards. Dreads move up the ruins for cover.


Crowe, who hitched a ride on a rhino last turn, zooms forwards and pops smoke. The red bead on the rhino is to indicate that it already popped smoke.


Despite smoke, my shooting shakes 3 predators, including the 2 baals. I also blow off one of the baal's assault cannons as well as immobilise 1 heavy predator. Overall, my shooting was mediocre this turn.


Blood Angels 2

Librarian disembarks from his razor in order to cast Blood Lance. His razors and speeders then move out of cover to shoot.


More movement. BA get ready to bring on the pain.


Every tank moves to be able to get a shot off. You've got to love BA vehicles. Move 6" and still fire every single gun. No wonder they're such a good army. And his razors are protected by AV13 tanks!


He blows up my lead rhino. Luckily, no one dies in the explosion.


He then destroys 1 regular dread despite cover with his squad of land speeders.

He also immobilises Crowe's rhino.

Actually, I got off light this turn as he missed with a lot of his lazorbacks and I made maybe 2/3 of my cover.


Grey Knights 3

GK movement (not much).


Crowe disembarks from his rhino and tries to pull back. I roll 1,1 for my movement and then a 2 for my running. Well, he didn't get very far. That's a 300VP lascannon-bait next turn.


My shooting stuns and blows off both guns on his honour guard's razor. I also wreck one of his land speeders and shake the other one.


Here my shooting turns deadly. Dread blows up the middle predator. Then psycannons wreck the baal and another predator.


Finally, my left dreads explode his last heavy predator.

Wow! I downed 4 AV13 predators and 1 land speeder in 1 turn of shooting! My opponent couldn't make a cover save if his life depended on it, and then I would roll 5 and 6's on the damage charts. Ouch!


Blood Angels 3

Severely behind, my opponent decides he needs to play more aggressively. So he moves full throttle. Baal moves only 6" though.


On the left flank, his 3 razors go after my interceptors and 1 purifier squad.


His miserable razor shooting continues, and he only manages to stun my vendread and shake 1 rhino with all those lascannons and twin-linked plasmas.


Grey Knights 4
I hardly move anything (maybe just 1 dread). There was no need to.


I blow up his last predator and 1 razorback. My purifiers then whittle down his 5-man assault squad to just 2. They pass morale and pinning.


I also wreck 1 razor on the right as well as immobilise, weapon destroy and stun 2 other razors.


On the left, I can't seem to wreck any of his razors with 2 dreads, the vindicare and 2 squads of psycannon guys, though I do a lot of other damage.


Blood Angels 4

My opponent goes for broke. On the right, his honour guard rhino move 12" and everyone disembarks.


On the left side, everyone gets out as well.


Typhoon pops out to take some shots.

His plan? Blow up my rhino and then insta-kill Crowe behind it.


Unfortunately for him, it takes all 3 squads (with 4 meltas) and his land speeder typhoon just to blow up my rhino thanks to cover. Crowe will live to fight another day.


Lastly, he wrecks my left purifier rhino.


Grey Knights 5

Purifiers and interceptor go after his honour guards (his nominated HQ unit). Fortunately for him, the librarian with a unit of assault marines is in their way.


I felt it unsporting to hide Crowe, so instead, he moves forwards as does my purifiers. My shooting kills 3 from 1 assault squad and 1 from his honour guards. I also immobilise both razors as well as stun the rear one.


I believe it was my psycannons that downs his last speeder.


I still cannot kill a razorback on the left flank with 2 dreads firing at them. Vindicare aims for his librarian with a turbo-penetrator round and he goes to ground to avoid a headshot kill.


Crowe and purifiers then assault his honour guards and wipe them out. Crowe cannot consolidate far enough to get out of LOS of his meltas next turn.


Finally, my 3 interceptors kill off all but 2 assault marines. His librarian wipes out my 2 halberds. In return, my hammer flattens his librarian. They remain locked in combat.


Blood Angels 5
This will be the last turn as we were trying to get another game in using my list #2 (Interceptor GK list) afterwards.

He aims 2 meltas at Crowe....but fails to take him out (missing with 1 and rolling 1 to wound with the other)! However, 1 bolt pistol penetrates Crowe's armor to cause 1W to him.


He then charges both squads into Crowe. I cast Cleansing Flame and kill off 2 assault marines, but then Crowe whiffs on his attacks, failing to do any damage at all. Now he's got both squads charging with Furious Charge and Preferred Enemy. He scores 6 wounds on Crowe....and I manage to make all my saves! Crowe lives yet again!


On the bright side, he wipes out both my purifiers and my interceptors on the left side to make the game a little closer.


Aftermath of the carnage.

He kills 780 VP's worth of my units. I kill 1805 VP's of his so I end up with 1025pts for a Major Victory. I also gets 2 bonus points because Crowe lived and also because I killed off all of his Fast Attacks. If only Crowe didn't take 1W from his bolt pistol shot, that would have given me a Massacre. Oh well. I was expecting Crowe to die anyways. Against this army, I'll take whatever victory I can get.



Majory Victory to the Grey Knights!!!