Author |
Message |
 |
|
 |
Advert
|
Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
- No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
- Times and dates in your local timezone.
- Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
- Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
- Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now. |
|
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/08/28 20:56:11
Subject: Are chosen a good idea?
|
 |
Ravager
|
Are chosen csm a good idea, to put into use in any games or just take the points and invest in something else?
|
So what did a squad of Fire Dragons say to the ork stompa?
MUhahahahah Apocaliptic Explosion!!!
3000 pts |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/08/28 21:09:54
Subject: Are chosen a good idea?
|
 |
Lord of the Fleet
|
They're pretty cool with all special weapons and infiltrate (I think)
other than that, not much else to them besides being more expensive per model than normal marines
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/12/24 21:40:20
Subject: Are chosen a good idea?
|
 |
Decrepit Dakkanaut
|
As always, whether a unit is worth taking or a good idea or whatnot depends on the rest of your army. Consider your army as having a particular mix of synergy, flexibility, and redundancy, and the units within it also having these properties. You need to balance all of these properties at the army level and the unit level, and across both levels in order to maximize the army's effectiveness.
Chosen can outflank, infiltrate with an Icon, and can be outfitted in a variety of ways. Consider whether they can do that the rest of your army cannot (whether they enhance the army's flexibility), whether they can do what the rest of your army can (whether they can enhance the army's redundancy), and whether they will do it better in concert with the rest of your army (whether they can enhance the army's synergy).
These days I like to use my Chosen as shock troops, infiltrating with Plasma Guns, Flamethrowers, and Icons so that they can crack transports, burn the squishy goo within, and bring down my Terminators and Daemons with complete precision. They provide an immediate threat in the early stages of the game as my regular Battle Squads advance up the field towards objectives, and while my Havoc Squads provide covering fire from the backfield.
Chaos Space Marine Chosen
1x Aspiring Champion
w/Power Weapon, Plasma Pistol, Melta Bombs
9x Chosen
w/Plasma Gun, Plasma Gun & Melta Bomb, Flamethrower, Flamethrower & Melta Bomb, Icon of Khorne, Bolter & Melta Bomb, 4x Bolters.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/08/28 21:28:28
Subject: Are chosen a good idea?
|
 |
Blood-Raging Khorne Berserker
|
As always, whether a unit is worth taking or a good idea or whatnot depends on the rest of your army. Consider your army as having a particular mix of synergy, flexibility, and redundancy, and the units within it also having these properties. You need to balance all of these properties at the army level and the unit level, and across both levels in order to maximize the army's effectiveness.
Chosen can outflank, infiltrate with an Icon, and can be outfitted in a variety of ways. Consider whether they can do that the rest of your army cannot (whether they enhance the army's flexibility), whether they can do what the rest of your army can (whether they can enhance the army's redundancy), and whether they will do it better in concert with the rest of your army (whether they can enhance the army's synergy).
These days I like to use my Chosen as shock troops, infiltrating with Plasma Guns, Flamethrowers, and Icons so that they can crack transports, burn the squishy goo within, and bring down my Terminators and Daemons with complete precision. They provide an immediate threat in the early stages of the game as my regular Battle Squads advance up the field towards objectives, and while my Havoc Squads provide covering fire from the backfield.
Chaos Space Marine Chosen
1x Aspiring Champion
w/Power Weapon, Plasma Pistol, Melta Bombs
9x Chosen
w/Plasma Gun, Plasma Gun & Melta Bomb, Flamethrower, Flamethrower & Melta Bomb, Icon of Khorne, Bolter & Melta Bomb, 4x Bolters.
I agree totally.
|
Chaos rules you all drool! Blood for the Blood God!
10,000 pts Black Legion
2,000 pts Traitor Catchian Guard (1067th).
8,000 point Sam Hain Eldar.
2,000 pts Squat Biker Force.
1,500 Orc Hoard (painting for a friend).
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/08/28 21:37:12
Subject: Re:Are chosen a good idea?
|
 |
Crazed Cultist of Khorne
Ipswich/Scotland
|
If you have Terminators or Daemons, Chosen with an Icon enable you to drop forces right in the middle of the enemy, no scatter. Definitely a bonus.
|
Thou shalt not bend to the will of nerds playing war games, and act upon your own free will.
“It makes a funny noise” is not an excuse for punching Imperial Guardsmen.
2000 points (Blood Reavers)
Please Click on Belzephus
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/08/28 22:22:15
Subject: Are chosen a good idea?
|
 |
Junior Officer with Laspistol
|
I think the Icon of Khorne is not really a great idea on chosen with rapid fire weapons. Plasma guns aren't really that good at "cracking transports," while melta guns, even beyond 6" are because of the higher strength and AP1.
Chosen are interesting as out-flankers, but mostly fail because Chaos has no abilities to manipulate reserves rolls. Coupled with no psychic defense, it is one of the major reasons why Codex:Chaos Space Marines largely fails as a 5th ed codex.
|
Why did the berzerker cross the road?
Gwar! wrote:Willydstyle has it correct
Gwar! wrote:Yup you're absolutely right
New to the game and can't win? Read this.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/08/28 22:27:29
Subject: Are chosen a good idea?
|
 |
Hurr! Ogryn Bone 'Ead!
|
5 of them with meltaguns outflanking in a Rhino is always a nice surprise.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/08/28 22:35:55
Subject: Are chosen a good idea?
|
 |
Decrepit Dakkanaut
|
willydstyle:
Consider, if you will, that the unit will be infiltrating. If that unit is infiltrating, and armed with Melta Guns, then either the transports they are tasked with hunting will need to oblige them by moving within 12", or they will have to leave cover and moving within 12" of the transports. That means that they may knock out a Rhino or Razorback or Chimera, and then get their butts shot to hell. Plasma Guns give them the reach to engage AV12+ and the extra shots lets them blast away at ranges less than 12". Additionally it gives them the ability to engage non-vehicle nasties like Monstrous Creatures.
That's why they have the Icon of Khorne, not to enable their own charges, but to make whoever charges them hurt. The Melta Bombs give them the ability to engage Walkers (Immobilized a Walker prior to charging and they hit with Grenades on WSvWs).
Melta Guns are nice, particularly if I want to crack a transport and charge the guys inside, but that's not the unit's job. Their job is to crack transports, and shoot the guys inside.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/08/29 14:42:41
Subject: Are chosen a good idea?
|
 |
Ravager
|
I like the sounds of this thank you much!
|
So what did a squad of Fire Dragons say to the ork stompa?
MUhahahahah Apocaliptic Explosion!!!
3000 pts |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/08/29 15:04:51
Subject: Are chosen a good idea?
|
 |
Ladies Love the Vibro-Cannon Operator
|
Depends on what kind of army you want to field.
I'd consider a mech army based on Rhinos, with 3 Chosen squads, 3 Havoc squads, and 4-6 CSM units, all mounted in Rhinos.
This would be something that SM cannot do.
|
Former moderator 40kOnline
Lanchester's square law - please obey in list building!
Illumini: "And thank you for not finishing your post with a " " I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever."
Armies: Eldar, Necrons, Blood Angels, Grey Knights; World Eaters (30k); Bloodbound; Cryx, Circle, Cyriss |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/08/29 15:07:03
Subject: Are chosen a good idea?
|
 |
Napoleonics Obsesser
|
They're okay. The only use for them is their mass weapons sort of thing. If they didn't have that they'd be useless.
I always wondered why chaos 'veterans' never had an extra BS.
|
If only ZUN!bar were here... |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/08/29 15:13:12
Subject: Are chosen a good idea?
|
 |
Banelord Titan Princeps of Khorne
|
wuestenfux wrote:Depends on what kind of army you want to field.
I'd consider a mech army based on Rhinos, with 3 Chosen squads, 3 Havoc squads, and 4-6 CSM units, all mounted in Rhinos.
This would be something that SM cannot do. 
Space Wolves and Blood Angels can.
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/08/29 15:27:35
Subject: Are chosen a good idea?
|
 |
Storm Trooper with Maglight
Buffalo NY, USA
|
Nurglitch wrote:Their job is to crack transports, and shoot the guys inside.
Except you can't do this all in one turn. What you are saying is that their job is to crack the transport, get shot and possibly assaulted (just to deny the CSM player the bonus attack) then fight back in CC. I'm with eNvY on this, they are better off with Melta's but I would put a few more units in the squad to aid in the assault after the Transport is smoked. Honestly if this is what you are going to use them for then think about grabing Raptors instead, some people say they are over priced but I've seen a few times where they make up more then their points in a single turn.
EDIT: Clarify
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/08/29 15:28:26
ComputerGeek01 is more then just a name |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/08/29 16:45:48
Subject: Are chosen a good idea?
|
 |
Decrepit Dakkanaut
|
ComputerGeek01:
I've explained why Melta Guns won't work if you're infiltrating the unit. Either you leave cover or the other player obliges you by moving into Melta range. If you do remain in cover, then you have a Cv4+ against incoming fire, anyone assaulting needs Assault Grenades, and the Icon of Khorne is there to give the attacks they would be 'denied' by getting charged, despite the fact that they're not going to charge.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/08/29 18:37:43
Subject: Are chosen a good idea?
|
 |
Storm Trooper with Maglight
Buffalo NY, USA
|
Nurglitch:
Right, you did a fine job in justifying your argument and it is %100 valid. But you never explained how your idea is better when it takes longer to execute. The Melta idea works best against transports specifically so that you can assault the troops inside and sweep both the transport and its troops in one turn. Worst case scenario you are trading one killpoint for two, and ideally this would be against a target that works out to be more points then the Choosen with their Meltas.
I'm not saying that your idea is worse, in a game where you want to keep more anti-medium-tank units on the field and you have other units in position to sweep up the enemy Troops plasma in cover is the way to go. But for any scenario where you want to bomb the rear armor of a tank instead of shooting the front, Melta allows for it and Plasma does not.
|
ComputerGeek01 is more then just a name |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/08/29 23:34:55
Subject: Re:Are chosen a good idea?
|
 |
Longtime Dakkanaut
|
Meh. At 2,500 points, outflanking a couple 5-melta Chosen squads in Rhinos might be fun and effective against certain armies but I'd rather spend my points on min-maxed Plague Marine squads for the melta game at anything less.
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/08/30 03:59:13
Subject: Are chosen a good idea?
|
 |
Decrepit Dakkanaut
|
ComputerGeek01:
So how do you plan to get that Melta into position on the first turn?
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/08/30 04:26:34
Subject: Are chosen a good idea?
|
 |
Morphing Obliterator
|
I infiltrate my 5 x melta chosen - but that takes into accoun the large amount of terrain (city fight games) and the fact I commonly fight IG armies (lots of tanks, and space is at a premium). If I cant get close enough on the first round, I force them to move away and/or get shot at, which allows me to move the rest of the army in.
Works pretty well I think.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/08/30 04:51:05
Subject: Are chosen a good idea?
|
 |
Plastictrees
|
With meltaguns, they're one of chaos's three viable antitank options (the others are oblits and termicide). It's a major limitation of chaos that they only have the three options really.
I've seen players try to use them in other ways, but I think there are better options for all those alternative purposes.
|
"The complete or partial destruction of the enemy must be regarded as the sole object of all engagements.... Direct annihilation of the enemy's forces must always be the dominant consideration." Karl von Clausewitz |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/08/30 11:08:29
Subject: Are chosen a good idea?
|
 |
Pestilent Plague Marine with Blight Grenade
Lafayette, IN
|
Nurglitch has it right. On paper there are a lot of ways to use chosen, but I have been playing chaos heavily sincethe dex hit, and the only really effective use I have found is an infiltrated squad with IoK and plasma. I usually have a naked champ in there for a greater daemon vessel as well. They bring the daemons and termies on the spot and are effective against more units while keeping the guys safely tucked in cover.
The problem with the melta trick is the range - if you are playing newbs and like clubbing baby seals, then good, but a decent player will not allow you to infiltrate 5 meltas, pop a transport, and charge the contents. If you pop a transport with a melta you are in the open. If you are in the open you are dead...
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/08/30 11:11:45
Subject: Are chosen a good idea?
|
 |
Ladies Love the Vibro-Cannon Operator
|
whitedragon wrote:wuestenfux wrote:Depends on what kind of army you want to field.
I'd consider a mech army based on Rhinos, with 3 Chosen squads, 3 Havoc squads, and 4-6 CSM units, all mounted in Rhinos.
This would be something that SM cannot do. 
Space Wolves and Blood Angels can.
Not really.
Chosen can outflank or infiltrate with their Rhinos and
Havocs can get special weapons, not just heavy weapons.
|
Former moderator 40kOnline
Lanchester's square law - please obey in list building!
Illumini: "And thank you for not finishing your post with a " " I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever."
Armies: Eldar, Necrons, Blood Angels, Grey Knights; World Eaters (30k); Bloodbound; Cryx, Circle, Cyriss |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/08/30 14:33:24
Subject: Are chosen a good idea?
|
 |
Rotting Sorcerer of Nurgle
|
Infiltrating any of the special weapons will not be as efficient as most will want.
Outflanking is the way to go with them.
It keeps them safe until they commit.
|
This is a little story about four people named Everybody, Somebody, Anybody, and Nobody.
There was an important job to be done and Everybody was sure that Somebody would do it.
Anybody could have done it, but Nobody did it.
Somebody got angry about that because it was Everybody's job.
Everybody thought that Anybody could do it, but Nobody realized that Everybody wouldn't do it.
It ended up that Everybody blamed Somebody when Nobody did what Anybody could have done.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/08/30 15:25:33
Subject: Are chosen a good idea?
|
 |
Arch Magos w/ 4 Meg of RAM
|
Then it runs the risk of committing to the wrong side of the field.
There really isn't any correct way to run Chosen. Outflanking is risky, Infiltrating is riskier and deploying normally wastes 17% of their points.
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/08/30 16:21:12
Subject: Are chosen a good idea?
|
 |
Rotting Sorcerer of Nurgle
|
So.... lesser of two evils = outflanking according to Darkhound  .
|
This is a little story about four people named Everybody, Somebody, Anybody, and Nobody.
There was an important job to be done and Everybody was sure that Somebody would do it.
Anybody could have done it, but Nobody did it.
Somebody got angry about that because it was Everybody's job.
Everybody thought that Anybody could do it, but Nobody realized that Everybody wouldn't do it.
It ended up that Everybody blamed Somebody when Nobody did what Anybody could have done.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/08/30 17:14:33
Subject: Are chosen a good idea?
|
 |
Eternally-Stimulated Slaanesh Dreadnought
|
wrex
spamming specials is good. whatever. they arent the best unit no. you pay an extra 3 points a guy for an ability that (infiltrate) that is so so at best, and for the weapon options, which are already pretty expensive. A CSM chosen with a plasmagun for instance is 33 points. A terminator with a combi plasmagun is 35. IMO the terminators are stronger here and cost near the same (at least for the first 4 of them) so I'd go with those.
AF
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/08/30 17:15:59
Subject: Are chosen a good idea?
|
 |
Ladies Love the Vibro-Cannon Operator
|
Then is comes down to the use of Termicide units, three Termies with combi-weapons.
|
Former moderator 40kOnline
Lanchester's square law - please obey in list building!
Illumini: "And thank you for not finishing your post with a " " I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever."
Armies: Eldar, Necrons, Blood Angels, Grey Knights; World Eaters (30k); Bloodbound; Cryx, Circle, Cyriss |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/08/30 17:33:31
Subject: Are chosen a good idea?
|
 |
Ravager
|
Alright so say im faceing Black Templars with one rhino, a landraider, 1 dread and one venerable dread and of course his other units. What would be the best way to get in there and crack the transports/dreads? diversions? outflankings?
next game i will be feilding is as follows
defiler
landraider
3 obliterators
1 squad 8 plague marines w/ rhino
1 squad 8 khorne bezerkers w/ rhino
5 raptors
5 termis
10 chosen
2 dp one nurgle one slaneesh w/ wings
|
So what did a squad of Fire Dragons say to the ork stompa?
MUhahahahah Apocaliptic Explosion!!!
3000 pts |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/08/30 17:39:47
Subject: Are chosen a good idea?
|
 |
Ladies Love the Vibro-Cannon Operator
|
Well, BT has 2 Dreads and 1 Landraider (pattern?).
What are the weapons of these tanks?
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/08/30 17:39:59
Former moderator 40kOnline
Lanchester's square law - please obey in list building!
Illumini: "And thank you for not finishing your post with a " " I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever."
Armies: Eldar, Necrons, Blood Angels, Grey Knights; World Eaters (30k); Bloodbound; Cryx, Circle, Cyriss |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/08/30 18:25:46
Subject: Are chosen a good idea?
|
 |
Ravager
|
They are kitted out to fight a ork horde. Dreads cc Landraider has a missile launcher forget wat its called has twin linked autocannons and hurricane bolters on the sides and a multa melta.
His Rhino has same missile and storm bolter
|
So what did a squad of Fire Dragons say to the ork stompa?
MUhahahahah Apocaliptic Explosion!!!
3000 pts |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/08/30 18:38:12
Subject: Are chosen a good idea?
|
 |
Ladies Love the Vibro-Cannon Operator
|
Well, then the weapons are not high strength.
This means that you can sit back and try to slow down his advance with your Obliterators, Chosen with meltas in a Rhino, Termicide unit, and Raptors with meltas.
|
Former moderator 40kOnline
Lanchester's square law - please obey in list building!
Illumini: "And thank you for not finishing your post with a " " I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever."
Armies: Eldar, Necrons, Blood Angels, Grey Knights; World Eaters (30k); Bloodbound; Cryx, Circle, Cyriss |
|
 |
 |
|