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Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Vallejo, CA

Welcome to part 35 of the Blood Conquers All series. To view other reports in this series, click here.

As by now you know, I've gotten new new dice recently. The gold-colored ones are some nice Koplow, which are fine, but still in the price range of regular dice. I also got a small wad of cash for my recent birthday. I was going to spend it on a bottle of scotch, but instead I spend some of it on the Koplow's, and the rest on some very shiny precision backgammon dice from Zontik. I had to wait extra long for them, but it was worth it. I seriously spent like a half an hour before the game just looking at these things luxuriously glinting in the sunlight.



Whether their 3/10000" tolerances will improve my game or not is almost immaterial. So... pretty...

Anyways, this game saw the conclusion to our Rules of Engagement escalation league. This last game saw me pull up against our resident Loganwing player.


THE CHALLENGER: 2+ or no +
1500 pts.

Logan Grimnar, Beater of Face

6 termies, mostly with power weapons
5 termies, mostly with power weapons
5 termies, assorted weapons
5 termies, assorted weapons
(Most terminators were upgraded with storm bolter+power weapon, with some THSS and a couple claws. Some cyclone missiles were also present)

Land Raider Crusader


THE DEFENDER: APPLY THE ARMOR SAVES!
1500 pts.

CCS, lascannon, MoO

PCS, lascannon
power blob with 2x melta gun
power blob with 2x melta gun

PCS, lascannon
power blob with 2x melta gun
power blob with 2x melta gun

Leman Russ Vanquisher, hull lascannon, sponson heavy bolters
Leman Russ Exterminator, hull lascannon, sponson heavy bolters
Leman Russ Exterminator, hull lascannon, sponson heavy bolters

The deployment for this game was one of our table corners options. My opponent's mission was to capture two randomly determined objectives. To his misfortune, the ones that were randomly rolled for were both mine (the blue ones). My mission was to capture more objectives than my opponent (blue or pink). Both of our secondaries were to have a unit in our opponent's deployment zone.

My opponent won the roll to go first.

At deployment, the field looked like this:



My opponent deployed first with everything in a line along his DZ edge with a squad of termies in reserve apparently holding his objective. This mission is likely going to be tough for him simply because he has to wade through an awful pile of guardsmen to make it to my objectives in the rear. That said, he DOES have a lot of power weapons on terminators, and that land raider full of grimnar and 6 termies is the wildcard to look out for.

In response, I pack my guys in, as usual. I deployed one of my PCSs out in front of everything else, though. I didn't know for certain what my power blobs would be doing, and I wanted to keep a non-blob scoring unit near my other objective just in case.

My mission here is to have more objectives than my opponent, not all of the objectives (or even a majority of them). I start my planning conservatively, as me holding 1 objective to his 0 will still net me the win. Really, if I can defend my center objective to the death, I'll probably be fine, as it's going to take some serious shenanigans to punch through to my backfield ones (although, given my luck of old against land raiders...). Of course, my opponent could dash this plan if he keeps some terminators back to hold his objectives, but I can't count on my opponent being so foolish as to leave 1/5 of his forces completely out of the fight.

Assuming he rushes me with everything, I cast my lot on holding my center, with some power blobs on the wings moving up later in the game to help ward off any possible 1-terminator-squad-messing-with-two-objectives nonsense, and, of course, to get my secondary.

I roll to seize the initiative, and fail.


TURN 1

Raust Melios Carissander - Commissar, 124th Foleran Infantry Regiment

After weeks of incompetence and ineptitude, Marshal Clinton had finally "lead" his forces to voctory. Mt. Cos was securely in my grasp, and minimal expenditure of ammunition was required to requisition the labor to help repair the shrine of His Most Holy and Beurocratic St. Eusebius of Silika.

The marshal had then refused to attack through fog and waited for reinforcements to arrive. When the fog lifted, I could plainly see that my enemy had used the mist to cover a cowardly retreat. What remained of the reverse slope now ours, I lead several "unordered" charges down the mountain.

As we approached the bottom of the range, we were met up by the only elements of Clinton's reinforcements that could possibly catch up with my bombastic and athletic charge down the mountainside. Finally, a couple of heavy vehicles to follow me into battle!

It was not long before I made it to the main road at the bottom of the foothill. The wretched traitor had left some units stationed as rear-guards as the remainder of their supplies were escaping across a small river a few miles down the road. Of course, the only rear that needed guarding was theirs, against my steel-shod boot. Having experienced my awesome power, they would no doubt be rectally bleeding for weeks to come.

I paused only for a moment as Daxos desperately ordered me to halt to allow the rest of his whiny cowards to catch up. Soon, I was ready to lead the attack. I took time to work on my "Attack like your life depends on it!" pose as the Leman Russes wheeled up behind me.




I had been anticipating a single thrust through the center of the board, but my opponent begins by attacking my forces in width.

Shooting sees storm bolters predominantly out of range, but his cyclone missiles cause assorted casualty.

After this point, the field looked like this:



Having spotted us, the enemy finally decided to grow a pair and attack for once. A couple of panicky soldiers up and down the line started shooting lasguns at their advance. I will deal with them later.

In the mean time, I prepared my angry pointing pose and was about to throw my men into the battle like a box of toothpicks against a forest fire. I was just about to give the command when suddenly the air exploded around me. With awesome power, all three russes unleashed the totality of their weaponry on the enemy. As the exterminator cannons fired up to full speed he air became an indefinable, blasting scream. After careful consideration, it was the fifth loudest thing I'd heard in my life (second if you don't count women).

The sheer shock of the blasting caused my men to involuntarily flinch towards the ground. The concussive waves of brute force knocked my hat off my head as I stood sternly, unphased by the terror around me. In disgust, I retrieved my hat and fired a few bolt rounds into the nearby Russ. The rounds were ineffective. I will deal with the Russ commander later.


In my turn, I stay stock still. The only exception is a couple of meltagunners moving to the front of a blob. I don't want to commit my forces until I know for certain what's going on. Haste makes waste, after all. That and I want a couple of turns to soften him up before I really get into it, and, given that my opponent is coming at me, advancing would only reduce this time.

Shooting begins with me needing to handle my opponent's ace: the land raider. Orders start with FoMT on the land raider (which was foolish, as the MoO doesn't grant cover anyways in this case), which sees the master of ordnance scatter off and the CCS lascannon miss outright. The vanquisher then chips in and misses with its main cannon, but hits with the lascannon, which does nothing. I then throw my PCS lascannons at it. One of them hits and scores a glance, which isn't stopped by cover. My new saffron dice apologize for the crappy hit rolling by pulling up an immobilized result on the land raider.

Then I turn towards the terminators. Deciding that I'd actually rather fight in the middle, where I'm strongest (even though that's where he's strongest as well), I decide that the first target of destruction would be the leftmost terminators threatening my left power blob. The equivalent of 12 heavy bolter, 16 autocannon and 2 lascannon shots rain down on them, supported by a dozen or more FRF lasguns. While the stormshield terminator shrugs off both lascannons, due to the sheer volume of fire, he fails a couple of armor saves.

After this point, the field looked like this:




TURN 2

Uncertain of what to do with Grimnar, Lord of Spikes, he decides to keep the termies inside the land raider. Everything else moves forward.

In shooting, he now has a fair number of storm bolters in range which are helped by more missiles. Cover helps keep casualties down somewhat.

After this point, the field looked like this:



In my turn, my opportunity becomes more apparent to me. With the way my opponent's forces are disposed, if I work fast enough, I might be able to take down his forces piecemeal. To this end, I move my left side power blob forward, looking to charge in against the terminators I'd dinged last turn. The only other movement is my right side blob coming back in a little (they were in single-tap range of hurricane bolters the turn before).

Shooting starts with my big guns unloading on his terminators (the Master of Ordnance refrained from shooting this round). Seven lascannon equivalent shots put down 3 wounds, all of which are again stopped by the stormshield. Thankfully, though, so many wounds were applied to that squad once the exterminators and heavy bolters throw down that the stormshield dude fails an armor save. Unfortunately, the huge torrent of fire failed to produce any other failed armor saves.

I prepare to charge in with the left side power blob, but actually take a moment to reconsider. One of the ways that I have (hopefully) matured as a power blob player is not always immediately rushing to charging everything at the absolute first opportunity. Without priests in my squads, and with countercharge in his, I don't actually have as much to gain by running straight into assault. Plus, of the two dudes left, one of them has lightning claws.

As such, I instead opt to shoot at them. Two meltaguns see one failed cover save, ending the lightning claws dude while sportly lasgun fire adds a couple of armor saves, which add to the 2+-o-rama of earlier.

After this point, the field looked like this:




TURN 3

The top of three sees my opponent make up his mind about what to do with Grimnar. Some disembarking and running sees an angry wad of terminators charging up center field.



The wretched foe marched implacably toward me. I stood fast in the way of their advance. I burned to charge straight into them and hack them to bloody chunks, but this would invariably cause a great degree of friendly fire from the Russ behind me. While the loss of men might be considered unfortunate, the loss of a member of the commissariat would be intolerable. Indeed, the whole battle would certainly be lost were I to fall.

For the time, they would have to be brutalized by heavy arms before they were brutalized on my power weapon.


In shooting, my opponent unloads with a squad of storm bolters into Raust's blob, but cover saves work, and the casualties are kept light. Meanwhile, his lone terminator on the left hosed a couple of guardsmen with his storm bolter before charging in:



This lone dude, however, was equipped with a power fist, and a flurry of power weapons cut him down before he got a chance to strike.

The squad rolled high for consolidation. I feel a slight urge to wheel the squad around further to the left. That way they'll definitely be in my opponent's deployment zone for the secondary, and might be able to capture his backfield objective. Not wanting to present a tempting target to my opponent, and desiring maximum carnage against his nearest terminator squad next turn, my left side blob bursts through the hedges towards my waiting foe...



After this point, the field looked like this:



By now, it was the bottom of three, which meant that play time was over. I was now only a couple of turns away from needing my opponent neutralized, and something worth having in his deployment zone.

My infantry make a big shift to the left, while the left side blob charges in.



The Leman Russ behind me stopped firing for a moment. No doubt they had let their cowardice dictate the amount of ammunition they carried in each magazine, requiring them to reload. Sensing the moment upon me, I stormed forward. Inspired by the gloriole of excellence exuding from my body, the troops everywhere around charged in with me.

Shooting sees me unload the maximum level of damnation against the terminators in the middle of the board. Not being certain that I had 6", Raust's blob picks up FRF and 4 meltagun, 7 lascannon, 16 autocannon, 18 heavy bolter, 36 las shots PILE on my opponent. With no storm shield in the squad, and my opponent finally failing a couple of armor saves, the squad is quickly whittled down to just one dude, who is charged by my left-side blob. The termie puts down some power weapon damage before being horribly drug down by the mob.

After this point, the field looked like this:




TURN 4

My opponent begins the turn by continuing to throw his tactical dreadnought armored gauntlet down the chute.



In shooting, he unloads everything against my left side blob which, unlike the last close combat, did not get a good consolidation roll. The nearby termies really hurt, but I got cover saves against the shots from Grimnar's squad, and the hurricane bolter from the land raider. Surprisingly, there are still remnants of the blob squad left alive to be charged.



Who are then immediately wiped out in a fury of preferred enemy wolf claw and frost axe attacks.

After this point, the field looked like this:



In response, I move my infantry up some more. I peel off Raust, as he's the closest to my opponent's deployment zone, and keep him in melta range, but get ready to make a break for it. I can only hope I'm not too late.

For how brutal my firepower was the preceding turn, this turn I brought even more of it. This time, all five terminators hit the dirt before I even needed to blast them with Raust's meltaguns, so I run with him instead. Where once was a grave threat, there is now silence...



I watched as my foes stopped in the face of implacable fire. As they slowed, one by one they began to fall into pools of their own gore. So shameful were they, that I spit towards them and lead my troops onward. Those pathetic cowards weren't even worth my disemboweling rage. I let lesser men finish them off.

Meanwhile, I had the real objective in mind: the road. I brazenly charged forward, ready to take the objective by glorious force.


After this point, the field looked like this:




TURN 5

In my opponent's turn, he continues on with his strategy: slowly advancing while laying down a curtain of small arms fire.

Damage is once again well within the limits of acceptable.

After this point, the field looked like this:



Movement starts with me developing my thrust. Raust moves up on the left, while the right side power blob moves up to his land raider. In the middle, I throw a power blob in to bog down my opponent and prevent him from snagging one of my objectives should the game continue to turn 6. I also move my forward PCS up a bit, just to make sure he's got a model within 3" of the center objective.

Shooting starts with running. I want to make sure I have a unit in my opponent's deployment zone, with a spare just in case.

Raust spares a moment to sneer at his foe as he continues to charge across the field.



As my opponent's forces are no longer much of a threat, I spare my CCS to shoot at his land raider (especially since the meltaguns right next to it ran). This guy only shot like twice up until this point, and BiD sees the shot hit the land raider, along with the lascannon. The lascannon is stopped by cover, and I get ready to score a much-coveted land raider kill with my off-board artillery, but neither of the two dice rolled showed up at least a 5.

The rest of shooting is pretty much the same. With only one blob, and with fewer lascannons and meltaguns, the damage is mostly wrought by a couple of failed armor saves from the endless pounding deluge of my Leman Russes.

After this point, the field looked like this:



My opponent rolls to continue, and for what feels like the first time in quite a while, the game actually continues to turn 6.


TURN 6

Turn sees Grimnar strut up to my blocking blob. For the first time this game, my opponent is able to get in a charge on his own terms.



The damage is brutal. A nearly unhurt power blob feels the brunt force of a 100% hit ratio with his preferred enemy power weapons, and that was after eating storm bolters. In the end, I have only two wounds left.

I'd keep them locked in close combat, but if there's a turn 7, that will just ensure that the game ends on my opponent's terms. I decide to break the blob. 2 sarges throw down their power weapon attacks for zero hits, and then promptly flee.

After this point, the field looked like this:



The bottom of six sees my two flanking blobs slide gracefully forward. Raust easily makes it deep into my opponent's deployment zone, while the other blob, deciding it can't also make it, moves over towards the top-center objective.

Shooting starts with an ineffectual bout of CCSing against the raider, followed up by 2 meltagun shots. They both hit for a pen and a glance for an immobilize and weapon destroyed result (which was really a vehicle wrecked and immobilized result. I can't believe I forgot Ap1).

Everything else that's available, which by now is not much, unloads into grimnar. For how good my opponent's armor saves were earlier in the game, they equally fail him now, seeing Grimnar killed by a pair of failed armor saves (of the seriously like 2 he had to make), along with an invul save. The rest of the squad also takes casualties, leaving a single, lonely terminator still on the board.

After this point, the field looked like this:



My opponent rolls to continue, and we do not.


FINAL RESULTS

My opponent did not control either of my two objectives, and didn't have a unit above half strength in my deployment zone. Meanwhile, I definitely controlled more objectives than my opponent, and also managed to plunk a unit in his deployment zone for an Imperial Guard victory.

- It may be a little difficult to see from this report, so let me throw down a couple of numbers here. Over the course of this game, I fired 99 heavy bolter shots, the equivalent of 72 autocannon shots, and the equivalent of 22 lascannon shots at my opponent's terminators from my Leman Russes ALONE. If things roll as average, that should have accounted for 16 terminators. Throw in the 19 lascannon shots from everything else for 5 more, and the handfuls of meltagun, power weapon, and lasgun attacks mean that the end result of this was me doing an amount of damage SHOCKINGLY close to average. Precision dice, I suppose...

- But it wouldn't have worked if I didn't have time. This game, I brought a little shy of 800 points of close combat goodness, while my opponent brought more like 1300. Not optimized to take down terminators, my russes especially were a serious liability to me this game. Had my opponent gotten into close combat quickly, they would have made FAR less of an impact this game.

But that was the problem. Despite outspending me by 50% on close combat, my opponent used the strategy he always uses. Instead of "move, run, move run" like a person who wants to get into close combat, my opponent practiced "move, shoot, move, shoot", which basically meant that it was going to take him twice as long to make it into close combat. This gave me the vital time window I needed to make my russes actually useful this game.

Wanting to be a shooty commander doesn't actually mesh all that well with a Loganwing, it seems to me. My opponent wisely noted that he was going to start including some regular power armor in the future. If what you want to do is shoot bolters, regular marines are a FAR better way to go about it than storm bolter+frost axe terminators.

MVP: By far, the left side power blob. Not only did they finish off two terminator squads, but they also played speedbump to a third, buying me enough time to absolutely obliterate them with firepower the next turn. With these three squads thus handled, the only bother left was Grimnar.

Hero of the Game: The remaining center power blob. They walked up to Grimnar, stood their ground, and got beaten in the FACE. Their noble sacrifice saved my opponent from running over the exposed PCS at the end of the game. Those two power weapon sergeants didn't retreat, they walked away tall, knowing their job was complete.

I made it to the road and turned around, seeing who had dared follow my bold and excellent lead. Behind me, there lay only ruined enemies and stragglers in my mighty wake.

Taking the initiative, I boldly sprinted the last few miles up to the bridge only to find it treacherously destroyed by enemy sabotage. I prepared to wade in the water, only to find that I had lost the entirety of my regiment in my advance.

Considering engineering the greater part of discernment, I held the twisted stumps of the bridge until such a time as I could obtain a replacement.

I eagerly await my next assignment. In faith,

-Raust Melios Carissander, Imperial Commissar



Now that the league is over, I'd also like to impart some of the lessons I've learned in general from the past couple of months.

- HWSs really are crap. They synergize well with a CCS (better than I'd anticipated), but they're still just crap. Sure, I had some bad luck, but still. Crap.

More importantly, one of the things I discovered is that HWSs do not, in fact, target saturate with the rest of the infantry. All of my opponents' anti-tank weapons were nearly always placed squarely at them, what with being instantly-killable, having few models, and having low morale. Really, HWSs dont' target saturate with regular infantry any more than AV12. In fact, HWSs and AV12 synergize better with each other than with platoons, as they both compete for what to shoot mid-strength weapons at.

Do not be fooled by the fact that they're technically infantry, and the fact that they come from your infantry platoons.

- Meltaguns in power blobs are good things. At first, I was loathe to spend the extra points over meltabombs, but the past couple of games really showed me why they cost more. Not only does the 18" threat range mean that I actually get to use them, but, and this is far more important, I can use them against things that are not also vehicles. Not to say that there never was melta shot at vehicles over this league, but the big majority of the shots they made were directed towards obliterators, demon princes and terminators. Being able to force invul saves (that ID T4, no less) has been more than a little helpful.

When I took meltabombs, I did so as an insurance policy against vehicles, when I take meltaguns, I take them to bolster their killing power against things that they are only sort of good against. This frees up points to spend on support units that can handle things that power blobs just aren't able to handle by themselves.

- As you can see over the past games, I've been playing my power blobs differently than usual. Without priests and meltabombs, there is less of an incentive to just straight up assault as fast as possible. Now, I can carefully weigh the situation, and choose to shoot when that's better, especially once I threw in meltaguns. Back in the day, charging wasn't always the best, but the priest over-ruled this. Plus, the rerolls would ameliorate the fact that I was still charging into lightning claws, or whatever. I'm starting to consider a more flexible power blob that has the option to shoot my opponent and then take the charge from my opponent as being the superior way of doing things.

- Also, my opinion towards blobs has also matured a bit over the course of this league, and not just because I occasionally shoot with them. Careful notice of what damage my blobs have done in the past 8 games yields the end result of "not a lot". Maybe it's just the rules of engagement, but I've been finding that I'm starting to play with my blobs more and more as troops choices first, frenetic attrition monsters second. Even though I'm not really spending much more on support units than I always have been, they've been slowly taking on a greater share of doing the damage, while the troops choices have been spending more time eschewing close combat to do other things.

Have I merely lost confidence in my blobs? I hope not. I definitely don't consider them as invincible as I once did, but I'd like to hope that my play is becoming more sophisticated, rather than simply more timid.

- The Master of Ordnance is actually pretty cool. His luck has been rather shoddy over the last few games, but the CCS as a whole is pretty well put together. Having a twin-linked BS4 lascannon means that I usually hit, even when the MoO scatters widely off, and I've taken down a fair number of vehicles with this configuration. Plus, sometimes the MoO DOES hit stuff, and that just makes him loltastic, if not also occasionally effective in excess of his cost.

More importantly, I FINALLY have a CCS configuration that I actually like. I was getting pretty tired of the 3x meltaguns+astropath doing NOTHING every game (apart from calling in reserves). Now, at least, it feels like they actually make their points back.

- More or less, the same is true of my heavy weapon PCSs. Yeah, just a BS3 single shot weapon, but at 40-50 points, they don't have to do a lot to make me feel like they're contributing something more than target saturation. Now, at least, they're also tending to control objectives for me.





Your one-stop website for batreps, articles, and assorted goodies about the men of Folera: Foleran First Imperial Archives. Read Dakka's favorite narrative battle report series The Hand of the King. Also, check out my commission work, and my terrain.

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Geneva

Good game! It seems you new dice are doing a better job than the old ones
Interesting to see you field three LRs. Did you feel they were worth their points? I have a feeling they achieved more than the HWS.
Anyhow, nice batrep, keep it coming.

ps: your enemy has pretty cool army, just tell him to get it painted

lg
FFE

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Homicidal Veteran Blood Angel Assault Marine






NJ, USA

Great Rep as usual. I am happy to see LRBTs, I love them personally and have tried to include them in each IG army list I build. I hope they are here to stay!

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Mighty Brass Scorpion of Khorne






Dorset, UK

Great report
Eventhough its the end of your league it better not be the end of these epic reports

   
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Stalwart Veteran Guard Sergeant






PA

too bad those AC HW teams didn't last long enough to meet those precision dice...
Overall nice win!

UG

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Monstrous Master Moulder




Sacramento, CA

I don't recall seeing you use Russ before. Any particular reason why you brought some in this time, and specifically the types that you used?

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Made in nl
Lesser Daemon of Chaos






Groningen, The Netherlands

Indeed, nice report again and I too hope that you'll start up a new league quickly so you'll keep writing up batreps periodically.

- As you can see over the past games, I've been playing my power blobs differently than usual. Without priests and meltabombs, there is less of an incentive to just straight up assault as fast as possible. Now, I can carefully weigh the situation, and choose to shoot when that's better, especially once I threw in meltaguns. Back in the day, charging wasn't always the best, but the priest over-ruled this. Plus, the rerolls would ameliorate the fact that I was still charging into lightning claws, or whatever. I'm starting to consider a more flexible power blob that has the option to shoot my opponent and then take the charge from my opponent as being the superior way of doing things.

- Also, my opinion towards blobs has also matured a bit over the course of this league, and not just because I occasionally shoot with them. Careful notice of what damage my blobs have done in the past 8 games yields the end result of "not a lot". Maybe it's just the rules of engagement, but I've been finding that I'm starting to play with my blobs more and more as troops choices first, frenetic attrition monsters second. Even though I'm not really spending much more on support units than I always have been, they've been slowly taking on a greater share of doing the damage, while the troops choices have been spending more time eschewing close combat to do other things.


By reading these reports I think you'll rarely do something without thinking about it, so let me ask why you're not using (counts as) Cl. Straken? He'll give you more flexibility when playing with blobs. When you're set on shooting and receiving the charge you'll have Counterattack and when placing a grand assault you can have 1 or 2 squads have Furious Charge... Besides that Straken himself seemes too be quite OK at first glance. I also wonder if you've considered a small squad of Rough Riders. I'd say they could fill a niche in your list as well at relatively low points.

Thnx again for the BatReps.

Cilithan



Fiery the angels fell; deep thunder rolled around their shores; burning with the fires of Orc.

Armies:
Daemons: 5000+ points
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Dakka Veteran





Columbus, OH

Good battle report, always enjoy the rantings of the commisars!

I love Zontik dice, and it makes me feel better that someone else has plonked down the cash for them, lol. I've had mine for over a year now and they are still holding up well, although they do have little scratches and nicks from being rolled on the rough tables. You might think about getting a dice tray if you want them to stay nice-looking.

Anyhoo keep up the good work!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/03/02 14:58:22


Thanks,

MegaDave  
   
Made in us
Badass "Sister Sin"






Camas, WA

Great report!

I'd have to agree on the CCS config. I love/hated the meltaguns on the CCS. They were only really good against things that got to your backfield, so hardly were useful (or were useful for one turn before something ate your face). The MoO/Lasc is great. I'm still running Al'Rahem, so I'm keeping the Astro and I've been playing with the Reg Std to keep Commissar related deaths to a minimum and HWS on the table. (My luck with HWS is a bit better than yours.)

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Arch Magos w/ 4 Meg of RAM






In the Wasteland

another great battle report. I instantly fell in love with those dice. I am jealous.



 
   
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Sure Space Wolves Land Raider Pilot




To bad it is ending i will miss the reports the were well thought out and nice

Your end has come. The sight of us will be your last. We are Wrath. We are Vengeance. We are the Rainbow Warrioirs."

*Silence*

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Fixture of Dakka





Wow, vehicles. I bet your opposition wasn't expecting that from you.

Of course, you did bring the ones he almost universally wouldn't care about, but still...

"'players must agree how they are going to select their armies, and if any restrictions apply to the number and type of models they can use."

This is an actual rule in the actual rulebook. Quit whining about how you can imagine someone's army touching you in a bad place and play by the actual rules.


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:-) I've never really been a fan of "Loganwing" unless it is drop podding (OK, I guess) or all in Land Raiders (better).... Wolves lost a LOT of the basic functionality back in 3rd ed when someone decided the Legion famed for planetary assaults was suddenly afraid of teleporters and jump packs... Specifically in this edition, the lack of teleporters hurts the Terminators, more than the customization options I think make up for... Yes, the 63 point TH/SS is neat, but is it better than the 40-45 point (all other) Marine version?

Terminators don't do well walking across the open field like that, and a Terminator based army against a horde is unlikely to fare well in any case... Unless the mission is a quick drop in, grab the target and that's the game... Not sure it gets better with the standard missions or not, or if it's just a bad matchup...
   
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Ailaros someone should pay you for these. You are like a charity for procastination, so much time i should be doing work i spend reading your uniformly fantastic battle reports. Never stop.

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I just love your battle report Ailaros... and Raust' commentary is just priceless. Viva Blood Conquers!

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Vallejo, CA

Viva! Viva!

Gitsplitta wrote:Raust' commentary is just priceless.
MegaDave wrote:Good battle report, always enjoy the rantings of the commisars!

Some people TALK about summarily executing a Leman Russ. Talk is cheap.

Cilithan wrote:Indeed, nice report again and I too hope that you'll start up a new league quickly so you'll keep writing up batreps periodically.
Gorechild wrote:Eventhough its the end of your league it better not be the end of these epic reports
rovian wrote:To bad it is ending i will miss the reports the were well thought out and nice
Perkustin wrote: Never stop.

Lol. The RoE league is over, but that doesn't necessarily mean my battle reports are. This is actually the end of... the fourth league I've played in? There will be a couple of weeks of free play while we all figure out what to do next.

MegaDave wrote:I love Zontik dice, and it makes me feel better that someone else has plonked down the cash for them, lol. I've had mine for over a year now and they are still holding up well, although they do have little scratches and nicks from being rolled on the rough tables. You might think about getting a dice tray if you want them to stay nice-looking.

Yeah, mine actually came a tiny bit scuffed in the mail (their packing material of choice was kleenex), but they're still beautiful. This is the first time in 6 years I've spent money on such a blatantly luxury good. Thankfully, unlike a luxury yacht, or a luxury car, luxury dice are much more within my meager means.

Fire_for_effect wrote:ps: your enemy has pretty cool army, just tell him to get it painted

Yes, yes it is.

It's a sad state of the world when such beautiful models require you to play them from a different codex.

pretre wrote:I'd have to agree on the CCS config. I love/hated the meltaguns on the CCS. They were only really good against things that got to your backfield, so hardly were useful (or were useful for one turn before something ate your face). The MoO/Lasc is great. I'm still running Al'Rahem, so I'm keeping the Astro and I've been playing with the Reg Std to keep Commissar related deaths to a minimum and HWS on the table. (My luck with HWS is a bit better than yours.)

Actually, the standard doesn't help against commissars, but it DOES keep the HWSs around. 3 models and Ld7 means that they're bolting off the table at first casualty as often as they fail orders, which is an uncomfortably often occurrence.

As for the CCS, yeah, 3x meltaguns are likely to do more damage when they get to shoot, but that was exactly their problem - they almost never shot. The CCS is an HQ choice first, and a gunboat second. The 4 BS4 special weapons slots are nice, but when the commander is shielding an astropath, or chasing things down with a standard or hanging back to give orders to HWSs, the opportunity to actually use said weapons wound up being disparagingly infrequent.

Cilithan wrote:By reading these reports I think you'll rarely do something without thinking about it, so let me ask why you're not using (counts as) Cl. Straken? He'll give you more flexibility when playing with blobs. When you're set on shooting and receiving the charge you'll have Counterattack and when placing a grand assault you can have 1 or 2 squads have Furious Charge... Besides that Straken himself seemes too be quite OK at first glance. I also wonder if you've considered a small squad of Rough Riders. I'd say they could fill a niche in your list as well at relatively low points.

I actually ran straken for a few games awhile ago, and didn't really care for him. A major reason for this was because I was also running al'rahem, and needed to keep the CCS in mint condition until he arrived (or else bad things would happen when the astropath died).

My other problem with straken was that his buffs weren't all they were made out to be. Power blobs do their damage with turn after turn of hidden power swording, not all up-front on the charge like other close combat units in this game. Having a single turn of wounding on 4's instead of 5's didn't seem to make that much of a difference. As for straken himself, yeah, he's pretty beeftank in close combat, for a single guardsman. The 3+ armor I've found especially nice. The problem, though, is that he's still just throwing down a handful of power fist attacks, which I had a hard time considering to be worth 90 points.

If I want this kind of a squad, I think I'd rather throw in an ultrabling lord commissar. For basically the same price, I get a "fearless" unit, but it's a power blob instead of just 6 guys, and I get the same high weapon skill power fist, durability, choppy thing, while also passing out a buff I think I'm more likely to actually use (Ld10). Plus, if I give him a camo cloak, he turns guardsmen into space marines, as far as saves go.

pchappel wrote: Yes, the 63 point TH/SS is neat, but is it better than the 40-45 point (all other) Marine version? Terminators don't do well walking across the open field like that, and a Terminator based army against a horde is unlikely to fare well in any case...

Right. The problem with terminators is that they only do a certain set of things well (perhaps if, like chaos, they had access to combi-weapons, but as is...). However, they're so expensive that it can be difficult to find enough points to support them while also still having enough units not to get screwed over by not having enough troops. Perhaps it only works at very high points levels.

I'd be interested to see a game between your deathwing and his loganwing, though.

MadMaverick76 wrote: I am happy to see LRBTs
Fire_for_effect wrote:Interesting to see you field three LRs. Did you feel they were worth their points? I have a feeling they achieved more than the HWS.
Raxmei wrote:I don't recall seeing you use Russ before. Any particular reason why you brought some in this time, and specifically the types that you used?
DarknessEternal wrote:Wow, vehicles. I bet your opposition wasn't expecting that from you.

Of course, you did bring the ones he almost universally wouldn't care about, but still...

So, about the russes. Firstly, I'd note that this isn't actually the first time I'd brought them. I played this game and the preceding tournament with them.

As for why russes. I started out this series with shooty platoons supported by artillery. After a couple of months, my shooty platoons had already been completely rolled over to power blobs, and I was already well-realised that my artillery was doing less than I wanted. So, starting in game 13, I started my quest to find new support units for my blobs. As I played with them more, I got a better understanding of what they could and couldn't do well, which allowed me to refine my parameters of what support units to take.

My first attempt was with Hydras, but the problem was that I was restricted both by models, and by points (lots of points were still being eaten up by al'rahem and priests at the time). Light vehicle support gave way to Ogryn. The problem with ogryn is their high price tag keeping them out of lower points games, and, because there was nothing better to shoot at, they ate all my opponent's lascannons, etc. Ogryn are durable, but they need a little target saturation help to really get the most use out of them. In this league, I tried out both HWSs and stormies. HWSs, as mentioned, wound up just being crap. Stormies, while good, only really shine when you can catch your opponent unawares. Unfortunately, my opponents wisened up to them real quick, and I found myself unable to force my opponent to make mistakes for my stormies to exploit.

The next thing on the docket, then is russes. I'm banking on AV14 spam being roughly as good as AV12 spam, even though I'm bringing half the models. This is key, because I still don't have a lot of vehicle models. Plus, now that I've lost al'rahem and my priests, I have the points available to outfit them properly.

As for my particular choice of russes, it's all based on my power blobs. My blobs can handle MEq, TEq and most vehicles on their own, while not being shabby against hordes either. Where I've found that power blobs, even with meltaguns, really struggles is against skimmers and monstrous creatures. Skimmers are just too able to stay out of melta gun range (especially with night shields), while it's just too difficult for my guardsmen to get enough 6's to handle monstrous creatures all on their lonesome.

The most obvious answer to both of these is the exterminator. Enough shots to make MC's fail enough armor saves, and enough autocannons still to mess with skimmers. They're also pretty good against horde, which my power blobs don't necessarily struggle against, but in the games I've played against green tides, my position seemed very tenuous. So why the vanquisher? Well, I had 5 points left over, and couldn't think of something better to spend it on. With S8 AP2, it's still good enough against MCs, and the +D6 also keeps it good against vehicles. Plus, it adds another unit from the codex that I can honestly say I've tried out.

We'll see how the russes hold up over the next several games. It's unlikely that I'll use a different configuration, though, as the rest of the russes only handle what my power blobs already can.



This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2011/03/02 18:43:30


Your one-stop website for batreps, articles, and assorted goodies about the men of Folera: Foleran First Imperial Archives. Read Dakka's favorite narrative battle report series The Hand of the King. Also, check out my commission work, and my terrain.

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For commissar versus standard, I've played (and inat ruled) you can take the reg STD reroll and he only executes of they fail the second time. (no second reroll though.)

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The thing is, though, that in order to use a regimental standard, you have to fail a morale check. I mean, it wouldn't make sense to use a standard on a passed morale check, or when you didn't even have to make a check in the first place, which is why the rules state that you can only use the standard at all once you've failed a morale test.

Once you fail your morale test, two things are triggered. One of them is a summary execution, another is a standard reroll. You don't get the option of doing one and not the other (well, unless you don't want to make a regimental standard reroll). Regardless of where you choose to take your reroll from, the commissar still shoots somebody.

You can't take a reroll unless you fail, and whenever you fail, the commissar shoots.

Of course, it's still good for keeping PCSs, SWSs, HWSs and the like on the table.


Your one-stop website for batreps, articles, and assorted goodies about the men of Folera: Foleran First Imperial Archives. Read Dakka's favorite narrative battle report series The Hand of the King. Also, check out my commission work, and my terrain.

Abstract Principles of 40k: Why game imbalance and list tailoring is good, and why tournaments are an absurd farce.

Read "The Geomides Affair", now on sale! No bolter porn. Not another inquisitor story. A book written by a dakkanought for dakkanoughts!
 
   
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OH, and those are totaly sweet dice Ailaros... like amber formed into cubes of averaging magic!

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Camas, WA

Ailaros wrote:The thing is, though, that in order to use a regimental standard, you have to fail a morale check. I mean, it wouldn't make sense to use a standard on a passed morale check, or when you didn't even have to make a check in the first place, which is why the rules state that you can only use the standard at all once you've failed a morale test.

Once you fail your morale test, two things are triggered. One of them is a summary execution, another is a standard reroll. You don't get the option of doing one and not the other (well, unless you don't want to make a regimental standard reroll). Regardless of where you choose to take your reroll from, the commissar still shoots somebody.

You can't take a reroll unless you fail, and whenever you fail, the commissar shoots.

Of course, it's still good for keeping PCSs, SWSs, HWSs and the like on the table.



I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

In my mind, you fail, you choose your reroll: Standard or Commissar. That Fails: You choose the other one, but can't use it because you can't reroll a reroll. I see where you are coming from though. You're taking the simultaneous interpretation; I'm taking the one-at-a-time version.

INAT agrees with mine, not that that's the end all and be all.

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Oh, sure, you can choose to reroll from either the standard or the commissar, but the commissar shoots regardless. Whenever you fail a morale check, he shoots. Period. In order to take a reroll, you have to first fail a morale check. Period. There's not really that much to disagree about, as the ruling is pretty clear.

That INAT has it wrong isn't terribly surprising. They tend to make a lot of bad rulings (cf. dash's struggle to get TO's to recognize rollas as doing what they clearly state they do). It's one of the reasons I don't think I'll ever go to a big tournament. What's the point in playing in a fast-paced ultra-competitions when you have incompetent umpires?


Your one-stop website for batreps, articles, and assorted goodies about the men of Folera: Foleran First Imperial Archives. Read Dakka's favorite narrative battle report series The Hand of the King. Also, check out my commission work, and my terrain.

Abstract Principles of 40k: Why game imbalance and list tailoring is good, and why tournaments are an absurd farce.

Read "The Geomides Affair", now on sale! No bolter porn. Not another inquisitor story. A book written by a dakkanought for dakkanoughts!
 
   
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Canada

Cilithan wrote: I also wonder if you've considered a small squad of Rough Riders. I'd say they could fill a niche in your list as well at relatively low points.


I personally think Rough Riders could work well with this list. I have enjoyed my single 10-man squad immensely in the short time I've been using them, so much so that I'm going to invest in a second 10-man squad once I can save up the ducats for the Forgeworld prices. They are a one-shot unit, but they can deliver a rather nice kick in that first turn. I could see blobs tying units up then delivering a knockout punch with the Rough Riders.

   
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Camas, WA

The way I see it (from a battlefield standpoint) is that the standard gives them a second chance to rally and then when they flee anyway, the Commissar executes a officer in an effort to regroup them, but it is too late. Meh. It's not crucial to my lists, but I just go with what's there.

I won't drag us down in pro/con INAT. I think it is the best in a bad situation. /shrug

On a secondary note, tournaments are always fun and the bad parts of them are usually overblown. I usually have a blast.

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Ailaros wrote:Oh, sure, you can choose to reroll from either the standard or the commissar, but the commissar shoots regardless. Whenever you fail a morale check, he shoots. Period. In order to take a reroll, you have to first fail a morale check. Period. There's not really that much to disagree about, as the ruling is pretty clear.


But have you actually failed the morale check before rerolling with the standard? I consider it somewhat like mastercrafted weapons, you only get so many shots, so technically your shot that missed hasn't REALLY missed until to take your mastercraft reroll. The logic being, that it isn't giving you another attack, it's letting you undo the failed roll, making it no longer a fail. I see the standard in the same manner; you haven't actually failed the morale check until you fail the standard's reroll. I hope that makes sense.

   
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I must admit, I am surprised.

There was a time you insisted on meltaguns being useless in powerblobs, wasnt it?
That turnabout surprises me really. What happened to you that you changed your mind so drastically?

Still one more nice batrep from you.

Your opponent made a stupid deployment and opening move, and played quite uncertain in my opinion. this lost him the game. So he deserved defeat.

Exterminators are quite a logical choice of yours. You need ACs to get transports early/from afar. In this game they didnt do too much, did they?
I think they suit you quite well. Ever thought of pask upgrade for s "8" autocannon and reroll to wound vs MC?

Concerning standard vs. commissar:

Oh, sure, you can choose to reroll from either the standard or the commissar, but the commissar shoots regardless. Whenever you fail a morale check, he shoots. Period. In order to take a reroll, you have to first fail a morale check. Period. There's not really that much to disagree about, as the ruling is pretty clear.


No one seems to get this... Good to hear someone having exactly the same argumentation!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/03/02 21:47:20


 
   
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Vallejo, CA

NWansbutter wrote:
Cilithan wrote: I also wonder if you've considered a small squad of Rough Riders. I'd say they could fill a niche in your list as well at relatively low points.


I personally think Rough Riders could work well with this list.

Oh, right, I forgot to comment on this.

Yes, I think rough riders would be great. Very good against MCs, somewhat decent against skimmers. Give them meltabombs and they can handle tanks.

The biggest problem with them is that they're fragile and so really need target saturation to keep them alive. If I don't have much else to help them, that means I would be amiss if I didn't bring at least three full squads of them. I simply don't have the models to make that happen at the moment.

pretre wrote:The way I see it (from a battlefield standpoint) is that the standard gives them a second chance to rally and then when they flee anyway, the Commissar executes a officer in an effort to regroup them, but it is too late.

Ah, heh, I see it the other way around. The standard is good for rallying shaky troops. The commissar is there to make sure they never shake in the first place. A soldier will have a hard time considering whether to run or not, and how the regiment's colors affect that if he's got a deuterium slug in his brain.

Commissars come across as the front line of morale enforcement, no matter where they are in regards to their officers. Otherwise, if they were just there to pick up fleeing squads and regroup them, then why would they be assigned to the squads themselves?

NWansbutter wrote:But have you actually failed the morale check before rerolling with the standard?

You tell me. If the answer is "yes", then the commissar shoots. If the answer is "no" then you don't have the option of choosing to reroll with the standard.

NWansbutter wrote:I consider it somewhat like mastercrafted weapons, you only get so many shots, so technically your shot that missed hasn't REALLY missed until to take your mastercraft reroll.

But in the case of the standard, you get into a illogical loop of circular awfulness.

Let's say that the way you're talking about it is true. You roll for morale and pick up boxcars. The squad fails morale. BUT WAIT, because the squad failed morale, you get to see if maybe they didn't actually fail morale. You reroll and pick up snakeyes. Looks like you DID pass that morale test after all.

But here's the problem. You passed a morale test. You can not use the standard when you pass a morale test. This means you broke the rules when you used the standard. This means you have to undo your cheating by accepting the original roll. Except wait, that was a failed morale test, which means it's NOT cheating to use the standard. This means that you get to use the results of the reroll. But wait, that means you cheated, etc.

So you have two options. Either the unit fails morale on the original roll, and the commissar shoots, or the unit doesn't fail morale, and you're a dirty cheater for using the standard

-Nazdreg- wrote:There was a time you insisted on meltaguns being useless in powerblobs, wasnt it?
That turnabout surprises me really. What happened to you that you changed your mind so drastically?

I don't actually recall being quite so vehemently against meltaguns in them in the past. I mean, I didn't take them because I was taking priests and meltabombs, but without either of those in the list, meltaguns seem the thing to do.

I mean, the special weapons are abblative wounds anyways, as far as close combat is concerned, so it's not like special weapons hurt the CC ability of the blobs (which is why I have customarily taken special weapons of some sort in them). Perhaps you're thinking of El Cheesus? I know he very much prefers to not include special weapons in blobs.

-Nazdreg- wrote:Exterminators are quite a logical choice of yours. You need ACs to get transports early/from afar. In this game they didnt do too much, did they?
I think they suit you quite well. Ever thought of pask upgrade for s "8" autocannon and reroll to wound vs MC?

Yes, I have very seriously considered the pasksterminator. The only problem is points.

The debate that I've had even already about the exterminators is comparing them to executioners. For the price of an exterminator with a lascannon, I can get a executioner with HHB instead.

I think my biggest reservation with the exterminator is that it's not as good against AV12 (or lower), and while it ignores armor on MCs, it isn't actually better against them unless they have a 2+ save (of which I've yet to see any), and are worse if the MC has only Sv4 or a ++ save.

They would have done more for me against terminators, but I didn't really have a problem with them, now did I? Also, having so easily beaten small blast template throwing units before simply by spreading out and getting cover, I have a rather low opinion of any weapon which uses them, including plasma cannons.


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Abstract Principles of 40k: Why game imbalance and list tailoring is good, and why tournaments are an absurd farce.

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Another great bat rep, and you're 100% right about the commisar, he kills whenever that check fails reguardles of other modifiers
   
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Deathwing vs. Loganwing would be heavily in the Deathwing's favor I'd think... Cheaper Terminators, especially the TH/SS and LC options, mobility in the form of Teleporters linked to the homers on all of the Ravenwing who would be scouting and equipped with Melta and MM weapons... Some luck on who goes first, but even still, I think the DA have a slight advantage unless the Wolves bring a mixed force with only a few Terminators...

2+ on a MC, Jamie used to run some with his Tyranids before he switched to Necrons, I do not remember what they were called, but I was glad I brought Las Cannons :-) But in general the AV 14 "lots of shots" was one I tried several times before ditching it in favor of a Hydra or two.. More shots, and I still brought the Russ, just standard ones for the template and big target no one dared ignore... I was just unimpressed by the AC/HBs mounted with BS 3 and armor saves for everyone usually...
   
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Great battle report, I was honestly surprised to see a Vanquisher with SPONSONS in your list. That being said, I did like your battlereport. And sweet Emperor are those dice beautiful...I mean...wow, just wow.

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Canada

Ailaros wrote:
NWansbutter wrote:
Cilithan wrote: I also wonder if you've considered a small squad of Rough Riders. I'd say they could fill a niche in your list as well at relatively low points.


I personally think Rough Riders could work well with this list.

Oh, right, I forgot to comment on this.

Yes, I think rough riders would be great. Very good against MCs, somewhat decent against skimmers. Give them meltabombs and they can handle tanks.

The biggest problem with them is that they're fragile and so really need target saturation to keep them alive. If I don't have much else to help them, that means I would be amiss if I didn't bring at least three full squads of them. I simply don't have the models to make that happen at the moment.


Something to work towards, then

Yes, I see what you mean about the target saturation. My solution is to hide them hidden behind an advancing hellhound and three rhinos, but since you don't do mech, it's more of a problem. They *are* rather fragile, which is why they're only good for one charge even with my tactic -- since after they blow away that unit worth 3x their value, all enemy guns will be on them. Three squads could work. Putting footsloggers as a meat shield could work somewhat as well, since rough riders move at the same speed as infantry until they charge. The fact that they have a potential 19-24" (move + run + charge) threat range does mitigate their fragility somewhat, since they can hide until the enemy gets within 24".

Ailaros wrote:
NWansbutter wrote:But have you actually failed the morale check before rerolling with the standard?

You tell me. If the answer is "yes", then the commissar shoots. If the answer is "no" then you don't have the option of choosing to reroll with the standard.

NWansbutter wrote:I consider it somewhat like mastercrafted weapons, you only get so many shots, so technically your shot that missed hasn't REALLY missed until to take your mastercraft reroll.

But in the case of the standard, you get into a illogical loop of circular awfulness.


Not necessarily. I think we need to look at the context of the standard and what we in the law call "the legislator's intent". The standard is supposed to be an inspiration to the troops; they are less likely to fall back when it is in their sight, and more likely to fight to the bitter end to defend it. It essentially gives them a leadership boost. I suppose a more elegant way of dealing with it to get rid of the commissar dilemma would have been for the designers to just say it gives a +1 or +2 leadership boost to troops within range. But they chose to represent the boost in morale by giving a reroll instead. So I don't think the circular logic comes into play since it's supposed to buff leadership, thus rerolling passed morale checks makes no sense whatsoever and goes against the spirit of the rule. So in my view, the "legislator's intent" is that troops near banners be less likely to fail a test and thus less likely to incur the wrath of their commissars (also the commissars are less necessary), therefore the INAT ruling makes sense to me.

Is this debate getting esoteric enough yet?




Automatically Appended Next Post:
P.S. How much did the Koplow precision dice set you back? There are no prices on their website. I tend to roll well below statistics, I could use a set of those ...

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/03/03 03:05:41


   
 
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