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Is Fire Dragon Mechdar the ultimate anti-Draigowing army?
Mechdar will table the Grey Knights.
Dominant victory for mechdar, though I still have models left on the table.
Draigowing pulls one from out of their a$$ for the Draw.
This game was a total fluke as Draigowing ekes out the win.

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Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





San Jose, CA

This is game #2 of our double-header between me and SabrX. The first game we played was a serious game between my competitive Wraithwing-Scarab-farm Necrons against his competitive FNP Blood Angels army (battle report here). The second game was more of a just-for-fun experimental game.

A while back, Tim (SabrX) and I were talking about what could kill Draigowing. At that time, I had just played against his FNP Blood Angels and my paladins went through his 20 FNP assault terminators like a hot knife through butter (battle report here). He then came up with the idea that his 30 fire dragon mechdar list could probably do it....not only beat my Draigowing, but dominate them. Fast forward 2 months later and now he finally gets a chance to test out his hypothesis.

Dark Eldar Venom-spam vs Tyranids
Space Wolves Long-fang Razor-spam vs Dark Eldar
Grey Knight Crowe-Purifiers vs Horde Orks
Dual-lash Chaos vs any foot list without psychic defense
Necron Scarab-farm vs mechanized lists
Grey Knight Interceptor-spam vs Daemons

Will Draigowing-vs-mechdar rank up there with the other David-vs-Goliath matchups? We shall see.


For my Draigowing list, this will be the first time I'm using my stormraven in a normal game (I've only used it once before in a game of Apoc). Basically, I swapped out my dreadknight in order to fit in the stormraven. Otherwise, I brought a pretty standard Draigowing army.


-------------------------------------------------------------------


2000 Draigowing vs Fire Dragon Mechdar


2K Grey Knights (My list)

Draigo
Librarian - Might of Titan, Sanctuary, Shrouding

10x Paladins - 4x Psycannons (2x MC), 2x MC-Hammer, Banner, Stave
5x Paladins - 2x Psycannons, Stave
1x Soladin

Stormraven

Psyfleman Dread
Psyfleman Dread


2K Eldar

Eldrad

10x Fire Dragons
Wave Serpent - Shuricannons, Spirit Stones
10x Fire Dragons
Wave Serpent - Shuricannons, Spirit Stones
10x Fire Dragons
Wave Serpent - Shuricannons, Spirit Stones

5x Dire Avengers
Wave Serpent - Eldar Missile Launcher, Spirit Stones, Star Engines
5x Dire Avengers
Wave Serpent - Eldar Missile Launcher, Spirit Stones
5x Dire Avengers
Wave Serpent - Eldar Missile Launcher, Spirit Stones

Fire Prism
Fire Prism
Fire Prism


-------------------------------------------------------------------


Mission: Capture & Control

Deployment: Dawn of War

Initiative: Grey Knights


Map of terrain:



-------------------------------------------------------------------


I'm pretty sure my paladin's winning streak is over, unless I can pull off an improbable draw. Is there any ways in which I can pull off an upset, or is this perhaps the ultimate anti-paladin list?

Battle report will be out after I finish the Necron-BA batrep.


This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2011/12/23 08:59:43



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Rotting Sorcerer of Nurgle






Jacksonville, NC

Very good matchup for the 'Dar.

Another great matchup vs GK draigowing; Psyker Battle squad. Blast the pallys with weaken resolve, charge them with chimeras, watch them run off the table.

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Sarasota, FL

30 Firedragons wrecked my Paladin list with relative ease, if you can't pop Eldrad you are in trouble.

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Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






I think the libby will help immensly. 10 dragons hit 7, wound 6 times lets say. With 4+ cover, 3 die. Now, some will go on draigo, shrouding may help, and you could stop guide/doom with hood. Either way, draigo and libby should live to charge and kill a 10 man squad each. If just 1 paladin lives then he could probably take a 10 man squad too. Or, every save may fail and you could lose 16 pallys at once.

Cant wait!
   
Made in us
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Edit:

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/29 18:14:40


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





New York / Los Angeles

Wow that's a lot of fire dragons! Definitely a tough match up for the ID-able paladins, but each fd squad will get 1 shot on the pallies if they're lucky, and none if they're not. Jy2, where's the Dreadknight!?

16 Paladins is a beast for any army to deal with, but with only 1 stormraven, it's a lot of foot slogging against a very mobile army. C&C is nearly as good for GK as KP would have been, depending on how long that storm raven stays alive. Likewise, how well the serpents withstand the handful of autocannon shots will make a difference as well.

Grey knights having the choice of initiative makes me think that Jy2 is going to take this one.






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Made in fi
Annoyed Blood Angel Devastator




Finland

Those 30 Dragons are going to kill 11 Paladins on alpha srike if you caught them in open and with out Draigo. Librarian, Draigo and Cover reduses the number signifigantly. I don't expect those dragons to get to fire more than one round each since they have to be within charge range to get those shots.
   
Made in us
Sneaky Striking Scorpion






I'm looking forward to this one, cause this is something along the lines I've been theory crafting to take on draigo wing. My only issue with Saber's list is not having star engines on the serpents. I know points are tight, but being able to pop the paladins AND prevent the assault the next turn would just be nasty (sure you can shoot back, but only at one squad. And lets face it, shooting is not the threat Saber's FD's should be concerned about). Plus, do you really need that 10th FD in each squad? 9 is probably more than enough (particularly if you box out the assault and get to shoot again). Could just be a personal pref. on the generals part though, so not going to make a mountain out of that mole hill.

if you can't pop Eldrad you are in trouble.


This. Plus just having Eldrad (read: runes of Warding) means jy2's gona risk "perils-all-over-myself" syndrome.

A little sad to see the Draigo wing list tailored to taking on the Eldar list. The storm raven completely alters the list's abilities. That being said it's not a huge diff. or departure from a standard list, so no biggie.

Really looking forward to the pointy-eared domination!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/12/21 19:26:27


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Made in gb
Lord of the Fleet






London

Wow, three batreps in as many days! I'm voting for the Mechdar in this one, as 30 S8 ID'ing shots per turn, even the Paladins can't survive that for long. He's also dramatically more manuveurable than you, giving him extra reach for the objectives, regardless of where they are placed, and the Fire Prisms could cause havock amongst the Psyflemen, especially when linked, as having two out of LoS and the remaining one as the firer when linked, the S10 Ap1 Blast is going to hurt.
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





San Jose, CA

Wow. I'm surprised to see that about 30% of the pollers have confidence that my Draigowing can take this one. That's probably more confidence than I have in myself. Lol.


--------------------------------------------------------------


PRE-GAME ANALYSIS:
Ok, let's take a look at some best-case and worst-case situations. Assume my paladins (with Draigo and Librarian) will be getting cover.


BEST-CASE SCENARIO
My hood blocks all of Eldrad's attempts to Guide his units and Doom mine. I successfully cast Shrouding for 3+ cover.

So 30 fire dragons fire at my 12-man paladinstar unit.

30 shots x 2/3 hits x 5/6 wounds x 1/3 penetrate cover = 5.55 wounds, or 6 wounds. Draigo takes 1W and 5 paladins die.


WORST-CASE SCENARIO
I fail to block any of Eldrad's powers so 2 units get Guided and my squad gets Doomed. I peril and fail trying to cast Shrouding.

First off, the 2 guided units shoot:

20 shots x 8/9 re-rolled hits x 35/36 re-rolled wounds x1/2 penetrate cover = 8.64 wounds

Then, the unguided unit:

10 shots x 2/3 hits x 35/36 re-rolled wounds x1/2 penetrate cover = 3.24 wounds

So a total of 3.24+8.64 = 12 wounds taken. Basically, almost the whole squad is wiped out except Draigo.


And that's only 1 turn of firing! If there are any survivors, I may be able to kill off 1 squad, or 2 at most. There will still be another 1-2 squads to try to finish off my paladins next turn.


--------------------------------------------------------------


And then there's the fact that he has 9 fast skimmers that can try to tankshock my paladins if he wanted to. Statistically, with LD10, I should fail 1 out of every 6 LD tests. So this is another strategy my opponent may employ. There are some risks to it, but just 1 successful tank shock would mean my 1100pt+ unit would most likely be out of play.

Finally, in C&C, he can just contest my objective with numerous skimmers at the end while saving some to protect his. He's got much better mobility than me.

Overall, with just a rough guessimation, I think my chances of winning in this scenario is 10%, my chances to draw is 20% and his chances to win is 50% and his ability to table me is 20%.


--------------------------------------------------------------


Deployment:

Map of the terrain.


I deploy right in the center of the map, slightly spread out in terrain. My objective is right smack-dab in the middle of the map.


SabrX deploys Eldrad with dire avengers in the star-engined wave serpent. His objective is way in his corner.


For my Grand Strategy, I take Scouts and move my terminators back.

And then I make a huge mistake. I forgot about my Turn 1!

But SabrX was kind enough to let me go second so for this battle, assume he stole the initiative.


--------------------------------------------------------------


Eldar 1

His whole army comes in. The front 3 serpents (with fire dragons) move flat-out. The middle-rear 3 are the fire prisms. Eldrad's serpent drops off the dire avengers near his objective and then move flat-out.

1 fire prism sees my paladins and fire its S9 blast but I pass my cover save plus Draigo's invuln.


Draigowing 1

Stormraven and 2 dreads come in. Soladin stays in reserves. Stormraven moves flat-out.


Paladins advance. My plan is to multi-charge with Might of Ancients.


16 psycannon shots, of which 8 are master-crafted, only manage to shake 1 fire dragon serpent. Stormraven's Power of the Machine Spirited (PotMS) twin-linked multi-melta fails to penetrate the serpent's hull, and both dreadnoughts fail to see in the dark.

On top of all that, paladins try to assault but roll for difficult terrain.


Eldar 2
Eldrad successfully guides both units of fire dragons, but I hood his attempt to doom my paladins.


I catch a bit of a break here. Right serpent disembarks their fire dragons and then moves flat-out to tankshock my paladins. I choose to Death-&-Glory. Needing 5's to penetrate, I only roll a 4 to glance. Now I need to roll a 6 or I lose my hammerdin. I then proceed to roll a ! Since he moved flat-out, his immobilized serpent becomes a wreck.


I catch another break here. He disembarks his 2nd squad of dire avengers and torpedoes his wave serpent about 20"+ at my raven. Hurling his S10 skimmer at mine (and I can't avoid it), he then rolls a and fails to penetrate my armor. In return, I wreck his 2nd serpent!


Middle serpent moves flat-out and tankshocks me. Luckily, I pass morale.


The rest of his serpents shuffle around.


He disembarks the rest of his fire dragons.

Time for some pain as we go onto Shooting!


Fire Prism and eldar missile launchers only manage to stun my raven.


Miraculously, my librarian manages to cast Shrouding for the 3+ cover. Even more miraculously, after 20 twin-linked and 10 normal melta shots, I only lose 3 paladins and Draigo takes 1W.


Draigowing 2

Payback time. Draigo splits off from the squad. He goes one way, and the unit goes the other.


Psyflemans shoot poorly. Despite no cover, I only manage to stun 1 prism with 8 TL S8 shots.

BTW, stormraven perils while trying to cast Fortitude and re-stuns itself. It does pop smoke though.


Charge!


Paladins wipe out 1 unit of fragons (I like that term ). Draigo rolls poorly in assault and only kills 2. They stay locked.


Eldar 3

Eldrad successfully dooms Draigo. My librarian blocks his attempts to guide his fire dragons.


Eldar skimmers shuffle around. Fire dragons get back into their skimmer and he moves flat-out back towards his objective.

Note - I realize that we played this wrong, as the skimmer cannot move flat-out after a unit embarks or disembarks from it. We just forgot about that rule in the heat of the battle.

Anyways, my opponent has changed his strategy. Now, instead of trying to kill my paladins (who are in cover), he is trying to defend his objective while using his skimmers to contest mine.


1 skimmer goes to contest, tankshocking my paladins in the process (I believe it went flat-out). I pass my morale check.

His shooting manages to immobilize my stormraven.


In assault, Draigo kills 4 dragons and breaks the unit. He then consolidates forwards.


Draigowing 3

Soladin comes in and scatters back a little. Dreadnoughts advance.


Both Draigo and paladins advance.


Paladins fire their psycannons at the frickin, no, I meant fragon serpent. Just 2 are in range to shoot, but that is enough to wreck it. Fragons spill out and get pinned.

5-man paladin unit disembarks from the stormraven.


Shooting from 5-man paladin unit and psyflemans stun both fire prisms as well as immobilize the front prism.

I also wreck the 3rd fire prism (near his objective).


Draigo then assaults the immobilized prism. He fails to cast Hammerhand and then fails to damage it.


Eldar 4

Serpent moves flat-out again. Paladins pass morale on a 10 from the tankshock (good thing I didn't split up my librarian). Fire dragons keep on falling back.


Dire avengers disembark from their transport.


Serpent then moves flat-out to tankshock my paladins and ram my raven. Paladins pass morale. Unfortunately for my opponent, he rolls a for his dangerous terrain test (landed on the wrecked serpent), thereby wrecking yet another wave serpent.

Wow! 3 attempts to tankshock and/or ram my units end up with 3 of his own vehicles wrecked! Man, I feel for him.


On the bright side, his dragons who are falling back shoot at my paladins and kill 3 (I fail to cast Shrouding this time). I pass morale.

In assault, Draigo, who is still in base-to-base with his immobilized prism, wrecks the skimmer.


Draigowing 4

Grey Knight movement.


Draigo and 5-man paladin unit closes in on his objective.


Paladins shoot and wipe out 1 unit of 5 dire avengers.


Other paladins shoot at his pinned fragons but only kill 1.


Draigo assaults the last prism. I believe I successfully cast Hammerhand. Because it was stunned last turn, Draigo wrecks it.


Eldar 5

Overview of the top of Turn 5.

This will be the last game turn as we are out of time.

This is also where my camera dies and so we had to change cameras.


His 2 last remaining skimmers (1 with Eldrad in it) go to contest my objective.


Other unit of dire avengers go to screen out his avengers on his objective. Fire dragons move on top of the wreck to try to shoot down my paladins. Unfortunately, he only rolls a 3 for the difficult terrain test and only a couple will be able to see and shoot my paladins.

Paladins pass cover against his fire dragons (only 2-3 could shoot, the rest did not have LOS).

His other unit of fire dragons shoot at Draigo. Draigo passes all his invulns.

His screening avengers run towards my paladins but only get 1".


Draigowing 5
Right now, he is winning. If I can contest his objective or wreck both prisms (and prevent Eldrad from contesting), I will get the draw. If I can do both - wreck both serpents and contest his objective - then I will win.


Paladins advance.

Note - this photo actually took place on my Turn 5, but I showed it on my opponent's Turn 4 to show his movement and also the position of his guys relative to his objective.


Dreads, soladin and paladins converge onto his serpents.



Overview of the bottom of Turn 5 after my movement.


Paladins shoot and wreck Eldrad's serpent, forcing Eldrad to disembark away from the objective (and out of contesting range).

However, 8 psyfleman tl-autocannon shots and the tl-multi-melta and tl-lascannon from my stormraven only manages to wreck 1 gun. His serpent made all but 1 cover save!

So the only thing that I could do is to assault and pray for 1 last miracle. Both dreads and soladin charge. Soladin perils while trying to cast Hammerhand. He doesn't do anything.

So it's up to my dreads. Needing 6's to hit and 5-6's to pen with only 3 attacks each.....


....my dread blows it up!!!


Paladins assault the screening dire avenger unit.


I wipe them out and consolidate into contesting range.

With that we end the game as we had to leave.


--------------------------------------------------------------



Grey Knights are contesting the eldar objective.


And claiming their own.



Victory to the Grey Knights!!!


This message was edited 7 times. Last update was at 2011/12/23 09:21:14



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The Hive Mind





Jy, normally I give it to you.... but I think this is the big effing rock to the draigowing hammer.

My beautiful wife wrote:Trucks = Carnifex snack, Tanks = meals.
 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





San Jose, CA

Zid wrote:Very good matchup for the 'Dar.

Another great matchup vs GK draigowing; Psyker Battle squad. Blast the pallys with weaken resolve, charge them with chimeras, watch them run off the table.

While I wouldn't say PBS is great against Draigowing, they do help somewhat. Mainly, they just need vendettas, demolishers and meltavets. The PBS is just icing on the cake.


BladeWalker wrote:30 Firedragons wrecked my Paladin list with relative ease, if you can't pop Eldrad you are in trouble.

I'm going to say that Eldrad will have a good chance of living. My main concern would be to pop those serpents with the fire dragons in them. Then I need to pop his other skimmers to prevent them from contesting. Stopping his mobility is paramount (or killing his troops). I'll let Easy 'E live this time.


DevianID wrote:I think the libby will help immensly. 10 dragons hit 7, wound 6 times lets say. With 4+ cover, 3 die. Now, some will go on draigo, shrouding may help, and you could stop guide/doom with hood. Either way, draigo and libby should live to charge and kill a 10 man squad each. If just 1 paladin lives then he could probably take a 10 man squad too. Or, every save may fail and you could lose 16 pallys at once.

Cant wait!

What will be key for me is if I can overcome Runes of Warding to be able to cast Shrouding and perhaps Might of Titans. If I can't, it'll be over real fast. If I can, I have a fighting chance.


sirisaacnuton wrote:
Zid wrote:Another great matchup vs GK draigowing; Psyker Battle squad. Blast the pallys with weaken resolve, charge them with chimeras, watch them run off the table.

Only if you can get rid of the Dreads first. The PBS would have a pretty hard time fighting through Reinforced Aegis. Of course, if anyone should be able to get rid of the Dreads in short order, it's Guard. Still definitely easier than trying to kill them all the old-fashioned way.

Agreed 100%.


junk wrote:Wow that's a lot of fire dragons! Definitely a tough match up for the ID-able paladins, but each fd squad will get 1 shot on the pallies if they're lucky, and none if they're not. Jy2, where's the Dreadknight!?

16 Paladins is a beast for any army to deal with, but with only 1 stormraven, it's a lot of foot slogging against a very mobile army. C&C is nearly as good for GK as KP would have been, depending on how long that storm raven stays alive. Likewise, how well the serpents withstand the handful of autocannon shots will make a difference as well.

Grey knights having the choice of initiative makes me think that Jy2 is going to take this one.

Swapped out the dreadknight for a raven. I needed some more mobility for this game. This is also to let me test out my stormraven which I will be using for the very 1st time in regular gaming (I used it one other time in Apoc).

The tactic is that my paladinstar will attract eldar attention while my 5-man paladin unit in raven will go in for the kill. Will it work? I'll find out soon enough.

I estimate that I may kill at most 1 serpent each turn with my 2 psyflemans....that is, if they don't get shot down first.


Vasara wrote:Those 30 Dragons are going to kill 11 Paladins on alpha srike if you caught them in open and with out Draigo. Librarian, Draigo and Cover reduses the number signifigantly. I don't expect those dragons to get to fire more than one round each since they have to be within charge range to get those shots.

Actually, they should be able to if SabrX plays it right.

He needs to use his serpents as a screen and disembark his dragons behind the wave serpent wall. Then he would be able to fire and I wouldn't be able to assault them without going through his transports first. If he does this, then my only recourse would be to shoot down his serpent walls with my psyflemans to create a path to his firedragons.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Dash2021 wrote:I'm looking forward to this one, cause this is something along the lines I've been theory crafting to take on draigo wing. My only issue with Saber's list is not having star engines on the serpents. I know points are tight, but being able to pop the paladins AND prevent the assault the next turn would just be nasty (sure you can shoot back, but only at one squad. And lets face it, shooting is not the threat Saber's FD's should be concerned about). Plus, do you really need that 10th FD in each squad? 9 is probably more than enough (particularly if you box out the assault and get to shoot again). Could just be a personal pref. on the generals part though, so not going to make a mountain out of that mole hill.

SabrX went for more skimmers over upgrades. It adds up fast when trying to fit that many skimmers, Eldrad and 30 fire dragons.

if you can't pop Eldrad you are in trouble.


This. Plus just having Eldrad (read: runes of Warding) means jy2's gona risk "perils-all-over-myself" syndrome.

Eldrad and RoW has always been a bane to almost every army I've played (space wolves, tyranids, grey knights). I think my chances for survival will live and die with Runes, but I really can't afford to spend the resources to kill the hard-to-kill character, at least not until I've taken care of the fire dragons.


A little sad to see the Draigo wing list tailored to taking on the Eldar list. The storm raven completely alters the list's abilities. That being said it's not a huge diff. or departure from a standard list, so no biggie.

Really looking forward to the pointy-eared domination!

Tailoring? You think this list is tailored to take on eldar? Try this Draigowing:

Draigo
Librarian - Might, Shrouding

Psyfleman Vendread

10x Paladins - 4x Psycannons
Soladin

Stormraven
Stormraven

Psyfleman
Psyfleman
Psyfleman


Just because I took 1 stormraven doesn't mean I am tailoring anything. Stormravens and dreadknights are both common in Draigowing builds. That is because they complement a slow-moving army well with their mobility. Would a tailored Draigowing list have staves and banners in their units against MSU-squads?

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2011/12/22 06:32:14



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Regular Dakkanaut




jy2 wrote:
BEST-CASE SCENARIO
My hood blocks all of Eldrad's attempts to Guide his units and Doom mine. I successfully cast Shrouding for 3+ cover.


What is this cast to have 3+ cover ??
   
Made in au
Malicious Mandrake






A little sad to see the Draigo wing list tailored to taking on the Eldar list. The storm raven completely alters the list's abilities. That being said it's not a huge diff. or departure from a standard list, so no biggie.

Really looking forward to the pointy-eared domination!


... seriously? Tailored? If anything, that Eldar list is tailored to kill of Draigowing. Units of 10 Firedragons are massive overkill on every single tank that isn't a superheavy, they're completely excessive in most matchups aside from soaking up extra wounds. Against Pallies and MCs however, they come into their own.

Looks to be a good game, but I voted that Eldar massacre Draigowing

Eldrad is a complete troll for GKs.

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Kovnik




Bristol

Warboss Gutrip wrote:
Eldrad is a complete troll for any army.


Fixed that for you

Also my money is on the Eldar, but Im voting for the GK's. Being British means I have a unnatural desire to see the under dog pull through!

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2011/12/22 10:54:03


Nerivant wrote:The Custodes are the reason Draigo is staying in the Warp.

ObliviousBlueCaboose wrote:I cant wait until i team up with a cron player an kill a land raider with a lasgun.

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Executing Exarch






Tank shock, that is all.

It is the bane of Draigowing.

Rick Priestley said it best:
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Connecticut

Ravenous D wrote:Tank shock, that is all.

It is the bane of Draigowing.
9 tank shocks a turn is a big problem for Draigowing
   
Made in au
Malicious Mandrake





Chaos Lord Gir wrote:
Warboss Gutrip wrote:
Eldrad is a complete troll for any army.


Fixed that for you

Also my money is on the Eldar, but Im voting for the GK's. Being British means I have a unnatural desire to see the under dog pull through!


Don't even get me started...

Just two days ago, I observed as Eldrad tarpitted three thunderwolves with thunder hammers and storm sheilds and a Wolf Lord on a thunderwolf with a thunder hammer and stormsheild, for 8 rounds of combat, killing all of the thunderwolves and reducing the Lord to one wound. In his defence though, the thunderwolf unit had already taken two wounds...

But seriously, Eldrad didn't even take a single wound... what a dick. I love him though: it meant my Tyranids didn't have to play SW in the next round

*Edit*

Something has gone deeply wrong with the quoting...

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/12/22 14:35:25


*Click*  
   
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Executing Exarch






labmouse42 wrote:
Ravenous D wrote:Tank shock, that is all.

It is the bane of Draigowing.
9 tank shocks a turn is a big problem for Draigowing


Any tank shock is bad for Draigowing, every time I heard "tank shock" it usually meant my 1200pt unit was running.

Rick Priestley said it best:
Bryan always said that if the studio ever had to mix with the manufacturing and sales part of the business it would destroy the studio. And I have to say – he wasn’t wrong there! The modern studio isn’t a studio in the same way; it isn’t a collection of artists and creatives sharing ideas and driving each other on. It’s become the promotions department of a toy company – things move on!
 
   
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Fixture of Dakka





San Jose, CA



Turn 1 is up. So far, I've survived 2 tankshocks.




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Decrepit Dakkanaut






UK

Well, first off he can guide Fragons if he's with them in the transport, but can't guide any others if they're in a different one.

Secondly, he couldn't disembark a unit and then move Flat Out.

Apart from that, watching with interest

Mandorallen turned back toward the insolently sneering baron. 'My Lord,' The great knight said distantly, 'I find thy face apelike and thy form misshapen. Thy beard, moreover, is an offence against decency, resembling more closely the scabrous fur which doth decorate the hinder portion of a mongrel dog than a proper adornment for a human face. Is it possibly that thy mother, seized by some wild lechery, did dally at some time past with a randy goat?' - Mimbrate Knight Protector Mandorallen.

Excerpt from "Seeress of Kell", Book Five of The Malloreon series by David Eddings.

My deviantART Profile - Pay No Attention To The Man Behind The Madness

"You need not fear us, unless you are a dark heart, a vile one who preys on the innocent; I promise, you can’t hide forever in the empty darkness, for we will hunt you down like the animals you are, and pull you into the very bowels of hell." Iron - Within Temptation 
   
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Agile Revenant Titan





Scotland

Avatar 720 wrote:Well, first off he can guide Fragons if he's with them in the transport, but can't guide any others if they're in a different one.

Secondly, he couldn't disembark a unit and then move Flat Out.

Apart from that, watching with interest


I move to suggest we get the term "Fragon" copyrighted, I can't stop laughing.

Iranna.

 
   
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Monstrous Master Moulder




Sacramento, CA

It looks like you opponent needs to reread the rules for transport vehicles.
His whole army comes in. The front 3 serpents (with fire dragons) move flat-out. The middle-rear 3 are the fire prisms. Eldrad's serpent drops off the dire avengers near his objective and then move flat-out.
There are two reasons why that doesn't work. First, you can't move a transport, disembark, then move again. Second, you can't disembark troops on the same turn that you move flat out. The point later on where a squad disembarks from a serpent which then goes on to move flat out to ram is also disallowed.

Agitator noster fulminis percussus est 
   
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Shepherd





Well technically gk cant use might of ancients either. Might of Titan sure..

The enemy of my enemy is a bastard so lets kill him too.


 
   
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Discriminating Deathmark Assassin




You can't disembark and move flat out!
   
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Shas'ui with Bonding Knife





Concord CA

wow looking at that the end of Eldar movement phase things looks pretty grim for the grey knights at the moment, can't wait to see the shooting phase So far good luck versus bad luck seems to be pretty even
I could never bet against grey knights though, for the emperor!

I will...never be a memory 
   
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Dakka Veteran




Huntsville, AL

copper.talos wrote:You can't disembark and move flat out!


Did you read any of the other posts?

Man I have no clue how you are going to pull this one out. Looks pretty grim for the paladins.
   
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Stern Iron Priest with Thrall Bodyguard






San Diego

As others have pointed out, the Eldar player is making some big mistakes that are ultimately going to cost you. Here are the specifics of why:

Eldrad can cast 3 powers per turn, 2 of which can be the same power per his staff. That said, he may NOT cast a power on an embarked unit unless he is inside the transport attached to that unit. Additionally, all of those psychic powers are cast at the beginning of the turn, before anything moves, so your opponent may not cast Guide or Fortune on any of his tanks that arrive turn 1 via Dawn of War, nor may he disembark units, then cast powers on them on any normal turn. For Eldrad to Guide both units, they must be on foot at the beginning of their turn and within 6" of him or the vehicle he is embarked on, and within his Line of Sight.

Additionally, as others have pointed out, your opponent could not have moved onto the board, dropped off Eldrad, then moved again with the vehicle. Units move one at a time, and you must complete their entire move before moving on to the next unit. This means that when he moves his transports onto the board from reserve on the first turn, as soon as he finishes moving the vehicle and decides to disembark his units, the vehicle can move no further. On normal turns, your opponent may not disembark from a transport and then move flat-out with that transport. He could have rammed the Stormraven if it was within 12", but not if it was further away than that.

It sounds like your opponent needs to re-read the basic 5th edition rules regarding some of these issues. They are fairly common mistakes amongst beginner Eldar players (I made many of them myself when I came back to the game at the start of 5th edition playing Eldar) and you should be aware of them and not be afraid to call your opponent out on them. They make it significantly more difficult to play Mech Eldar effectively, but it's necessary to know they are there.

"Duty is heavier than a mountain, death lighter than a feather."

Proud supporter of Scott the Paladin. Long Live Scott! 
   
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Decrepit Dakkanaut






UK

and within his Line of Sight


Guide doesn't require LoS to the target unit.

Mandorallen turned back toward the insolently sneering baron. 'My Lord,' The great knight said distantly, 'I find thy face apelike and thy form misshapen. Thy beard, moreover, is an offence against decency, resembling more closely the scabrous fur which doth decorate the hinder portion of a mongrel dog than a proper adornment for a human face. Is it possibly that thy mother, seized by some wild lechery, did dally at some time past with a randy goat?' - Mimbrate Knight Protector Mandorallen.

Excerpt from "Seeress of Kell", Book Five of The Malloreon series by David Eddings.

My deviantART Profile - Pay No Attention To The Man Behind The Madness

"You need not fear us, unless you are a dark heart, a vile one who preys on the innocent; I promise, you can’t hide forever in the empty darkness, for we will hunt you down like the animals you are, and pull you into the very bowels of hell." Iron - Within Temptation 
   
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Stern Iron Priest with Thrall Bodyguard






San Diego

Avatar 720 wrote:
and within his Line of Sight


Guide doesn't require LoS to the target unit.

Yeah you're right, hence the reason he can cast it from inside a transport without fire points. Man it's been a long time since I've played my Eldar!

"Duty is heavier than a mountain, death lighter than a feather."

Proud supporter of Scott the Paladin. Long Live Scott! 
   
 
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