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2013/10/13 02:13:01
Subject: Reapers, Bikers, & Little Sisters: Sororitas infiltrators, T3 fast bikes, & naive novices
tl;dr:
Reapers: "cold sniper" Sisters, creepily quiet Elite Infiltrators with Ballistic Skill 5 and masterwork boltguns that can fire Precision Shots.
Thrones: Fast Attack Bikes, but much lighter and faster than Marine ones: no T4 (it's a defining weakness of the Sisters) but 3" extra every time they, including their Hit & Run.
Novices: little girls with big guns, pious teenagers charging into combat with bolters, WS:2 BS:3, and special rules called "Children's Crusade" and "Sacrificial Lambs."
I was inspired here by 3-4 recurring themes in the wishlist thread: what Adepta Sororitas novices would be like, how much the Sisters needed a second Troop choice like maybe Novices, how much the Sisters needed some better elites, and what kinds of Bikes should Sisters have. Those ideas combined with some ideas festering in my notebook to produce these three:
[UPDATE: These specific rules are obsolete now, with a substantially revised write-up on page 2 of the thread.]
Only the best markswomen in the Sisterhood are considered for the elite Reapers. Only the most cold-blooded make the final cut. If the Repentia unnerve many regular Sisters with their screaming fury, Reapers are considered uncanny for their icy calm and their near-total silence: Reapers communicate with each other almost entirely in sign language, whether in the field or in their own home convent, nor do they pray aloud or join in hymns of praise or hate. Shrouded in sacred stealth cloaks, their power armour annointed with sacred lubricants to move without a sound, Reapers infiltrate into key positions and then wait hours, days, or weeks to observe the enemy and -- if so ordered -- strike.
Unit Composition:
1 Reaper Superior
4 Reapers
Unit Type:
Infantry; Superior is Infantry (Character)
Wargear:
Power armour
Boltgun
Camo Cloak
Frag Grenades
Krak Grenades
Special Rules:
Acts of Faith
Shield of Faith
Infiltrate
Move Through Cover
Night Vision
Stealth
Shrouded
Unique Act of Faith: Divine Vengeance*
*Unique Act of Faith: Divine Vengeance
The Reapers intone a silent prayer and fire with impossible precision. You may attempt this Act of Faith at the start of your own Shooting Phase. If successful, all the Reapers' weapons gain the Sniper special rule until the end of the Phase.
Dedicated Transport:
A Reaper squad may never take a dedicated transport.
Options:
Add up to five additional Reapers: 20 points per model
Any Reaper may replace her boltgun with a scoped bolter*: 5 points per model
For every two models in the squad, one may replace her boltgun with a Sororitas Special Weapon.
The Reaper Superior may take Ranged or Melee weapons.
The Reaper Superior may take melta bombs: 5 points
*Scoped Bolter:
Reapers often carry high-accuracy boltguns with powerful targeting scopes wired directly into their helmet displays. A Scoped Bolter is Master-Crafted weapon. Each to-hit roll of 6 results in a Precision Shot (BRBpg. 63).
Range 24" Strength:4 AP:5 Rapid Fire
Agile, fragile, and frighteningly fast, the light bikes ridden by Sororitas Thrones are very different from their Space Marine counterparts. They trade armour protection for sheer speed, often scouting far ahead of the main Sororitas force to stage hit-and-run attacks on vulnerable targets.
*Sororitas Bike:
- Fragile: A model riding a Sororitas Bike does not have the Relentless and Armoured Steed special rules, so her Toughness does not increase by one (as reflected in the Thrones' profiles)
- Fast: However, a model on a Sororitas Bike may add 3" to any movement, including charging, Turbo-Boosting, Falling Back, Hit & Run moves, and Sweeping Advances.
- Otherwise, a Sororitas Bike follows all the normal rules for Bikes (BRB p.54).
- A Sororitas bike is armed with a Storm Bolter (unless an upgrade to another weapon is bought).
Special Rules:
Acts of Faith
Shield of Faith
Hit and Run
Unique Act of Faith: The Emperor's Chariot*
Scout
(Sororitas Bike gives Hammer of Wrath and Jink, but not Armoured Steed or Relentless).
*Unique Act of Faith: The Emperor's Chariot
Driven by zeal, the Thrones tear right through the enemy formation at blinding speed. You may attempt this Act of Faith at the beginning of your Assault Phase. If successful, each Throne becomes Fearless and gains two Hammer of Wratch attacks instead of one. However, the Thrones must attempt to leave combat at the end of the phase using their Hit & Run ability as their momentum carries them out of combat. The effects of this Act last until the end of the phase.
Options:
The squad may include up to five additional Thrones: 20 points per model
For every four Thrones in the squad, one may replace her bike-mounted Storm Bolter with a bike-mounted Sororitas Special Weapon.
The Throne Superior may take any one-handed Melee or Ranged weapon.
The Throne Superior may take Melta bombs: 5 points.
When a prospective Sister of Battle graduates from the Schola Progenium at age 12, she is sent to the Adepta Sororitas for her six-year Novitiate. As a Novice, she learns the Sisterhood's rituals, tactics, and weaponry. A strength-augmentation harness worn over her carapace armour allows the teenage girl to handle the weight of the holy bolter, letting her train from the first day of her Novitiate with the weapon she will most likely use for the rest of her life.
As a matter of both doctrine and maternal instinct, the Sisterhood tries to keep its Novices safe, by Imperial standards, and to send them into combat only on easy missions with extensive backup, as a form of live-fire training. Only as a desperate measure would the Sororitas throw their "Little Sisters" into pitched battle. But desperate times call for desperate measures, and in the grim darkness of a waning Imperium, times are desperate all the time....
Unit Composition:
1 Mistress of Novices
4 Sororitas Novices
Unit Type:
Infantry; Mistress is Infantry (Character)
Wargear (Mistress):
Power Armour
Boltgun
Frag Grenades
Krak Grenades
Special Rules:
Acts of Faith
Shield of Faith
Sacrificial Lambs*
Unique Act of Faith: Children's Crusade*
*Unique special rules:
Sacrificial Lambs:
Full-fledged Sisters of Battle tend to tease the young Novices mercilessly -- "Task Force Acne," "Pettanko Commandos," "Battle Brats," and "Little Bitches" are some of the kinder epithets -- but they are still fiercely protective of them. Some of the more ruthless Sororitas commanders are known to exploit this sentiment by deliberately putting Novices in harm's way. Whenever any enemy unit kills a Novice (i.e. inflicts an unsaved Wound), it immediately and permanently becomes a Preferred Enemy for all adult Adepta Sororitas units (meaning any unit with the Acts of Faith special rule that is not a Novitiate Squad itself).
Unique Act of Faith: Children's Crusade
Fired by their youth, innocence, and inexperience, the Novices charge fearlessly into close combat. You may attempt this Act of Faith at the beginning of either player's Assault Phase. If the roll is successful, the squad gains the Counter-Attack, Fearless, and Rage special rules until the end of the phase.
Dedicated Transport:
A Novice squad with ten models or fewer may take a Rhino as a Dedicated Transport.
Options:
Add up to fifteen additional Novices: 8 points per model
For every eight models in the squad, one Novice may replace her Boltgun with a Sororitas Special Weapon.
The Mistress of Novices may take Melee or Ranged weapons.
The Mistress may take melta bombs: 5 points
[Edited to fix typo that gave Reapers & Thrones three (!) wounds instead of one.]
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2013/10/18 13:32:54
BURN IT DOWN BURN IT DOWN BABY BURN IT DOWN
Psienesis wrote: Well, if you check out Sister Sydney's homebrew/expansion rules, you'll find all kinds of units the Sisters could have, that fit with the theme of the Sisters (as a tabletop army) perfectly well, and are damn-near-perfectly balanced.
First off, might want to work on the fluff descriptions, some of its repetitive, and the first half of the sacrificial lambs special rule feels more junior high than grimdark. Beyond this, excellent stuff.
My favorite part about these units is that they are not just simple ports of units from other codex's, they've got enough of a twist to feel unique.
Reapers: I love the reapers, very fluffy and would actually be a good option for the army. Maybe drop their points a bit, and make the camo cloaks an upgrade rather than an included piece of Wargear. An option for something like an upgraded sniper Bolter might be interesting as an upgrade to take, so maybe a heavy gun with better AP or something. Maybe an upgrade called Blessed Ammunition that increases their guns AP by one, I just feel like this unit is calling out for something else wargear-wise to really flesh them out. Keep an eye on how BS 5 will interact with their rules, it could be slightly overpowered.
Thrones Again, fluffy and exciting option for Fast Attack. Why storm-Bolters over twin-linked boltguns like normal bikes? I like it, it definitely helps show that they are different from SM bikers (and a really thin, unarmored bike with a stormbolter on it would look really cool), I'm just curious. I don't see any issues with balance or costing here, again maybe look for another unique piece of Wargear to set them apart, kinda like SM scout bikers with their mines.
Novitiate My favorite of the bunch. The sisters needed something else for troops and this hits it on the head. Sacrificial Lambs is an amazing rule to bring them into the game, and unlike anything i can think of. Wording of sacrificial lambs needs some work done on it to help clarify and be more precise, but having any unit who attacks them result in preferred enemy might be a bit extreme, maybe the unit that either kills the novitiate squad or makes them flee, rather than just shoot at them. I'm worried these would become simple objective holders, since the opponent can't harm them without havIng every other unit gain a huge bonus against them, so maybe make it so they can't score. Children's crusade needs some work, that's a lot of bonuses for a single unit. Maybe look at buffing their shield of faith save to show the emperor looking after his children instead/as well, I don't see them as being that kind of uber-aggressive unit the rule would try to turn them into.
2013/10/13 03:22:33
Subject: Reapers, Bikers, & Little Sisters: Sororitas infiltrators, T3 fast bikes, & naive novices
- Blessed ammo of some kind, Sternguard-style, makes a lot of sense for Reapers.
- You're probably right Sacrificial Lambs is overpowered; maybe it should only be the nearest Sisters unit that gets Preferred Enemy, because they saw the most and feel the most responsible for it happening?
- Children's Crusade is maybe OTT, but I really like the idea of giving all these short-term close combat bonuses to a unit that is just terrible in close combat: with WS:2 and Sv:4+ on top of the standard Sisterhood S:3 T:3, Novices will do about as well as the actual Children's Crusade. By contrast, boosting Shield of Faith would show the universe/Emperor cares whether they live or die, which is so ungrimdark. They're kids: they get a brief surge of overconfidence, get in over their heads, and die.
-I put the Storm Bolter on the Soritas Bike because it's a smaller weapon than a TL bolter and the Bike is not Relentless, so Rapid Fire weapons would behave weirdly. Now maybe removing Relentless was silly and just limiting the bikes to bolters, meltas, or flamers with no Heavy Weapons captures their lightness enough already.
BURN IT DOWN BURN IT DOWN BABY BURN IT DOWN
Psienesis wrote: Well, if you check out Sister Sydney's homebrew/expansion rules, you'll find all kinds of units the Sisters could have, that fit with the theme of the Sisters (as a tabletop army) perfectly well, and are damn-near-perfectly balanced.
I'm still mulling things over, but you do realize to have T3 bikes, the models would have had to initially been T2 right? Bikes automatically add +1 to the riders toughness. Even Eldar are T4 on their bikes.
2013/10/13 08:23:42
Subject: Reapers, Bikers, & Little Sisters: Sororitas infiltrators, T3 fast bikes, & naive novices
I like the throne unit, they would grant quite a lot of fire power from a small unit, maybe have access to blessed ammunition (Re-roll 1's to wound?). The reapers should be BS 4 if you want to keep the precision shot AND master crafted. Think about it, they have a 35/36 chance to hit, that's too much. Not even Eldar Rangers are BS 5, Sisters can live with 4 to. I also don't think they deserve shrouded, Shrouded is for people with advanced stealth tech or have spent their entire lives being stealthy (Eldar Pathfinders) and these sisters have neither. Stealth would do them. The Novices deserve WS 3, Ready the Ciaphias Cain novel that includes them, they charge into heretics with Bayonets flashing and enjoy it.
2013/10/13 08:26:09
Subject: Re:Reapers, Bikers, & Little Sisters: Sororitas infiltrators, T3 fast bikes, & naive novices
About Reapers: the idea is cool, but the name doesn't fit into the theme. Call them Vindictus (roughly translates to avengers). Also, they should have Stalker patter boltguns (the official sniper boltgun, you can find the stats in the SM codex as Scout Sergeant Telion uses a Stalker boltgun).
My armies:
14000 points
2013/10/13 09:45:48
Subject: Reapers, Bikers, & Little Sisters: Sororitas infiltrators, T3 fast bikes, & naive novices
Holy blood of the Emperor, Sydney, a native +4 to cover saves?! Even at 19 points per model, that's insane, especially with Infiltrate, Move Through Cover and Night Vision as well. I say 19 rather than 20 because of the Veteran Superior tax.
Reapers need work, sis. Seriously. Upgrading to Scoped Bolters invalidates half their Act of Faith, making it a worthless upgrade. Meltaguns are distinctively noisy when firing (they 'roar'). Not exactly great for the infil-squad.
Here's what I'd recommend:
105 points for the squad, as you've said.
Give wargear, "Enhanced autosenses" to explain night vision and tidy up the entry a little.
Drop Shrouded outright (camo cloak + stealth still equals +2 cover)
Make Scoped Bolters their default weapon for no additional cost. Telion's Stalker is a unique and customised piece of kit, the standard Stalker bolter would just be a sniper rifle and these girls aren't traditional snipers.
Change Divine Vengeance to grant "all shots are Precision Shots" instead of Sniper. sniper comes with a slew of bonuses like Pinning, Poisoned (4+) and Rending. That would mean that the Reapers' AoF was more powerful than the Canoness' (three instead of two additional rules, if we disregard Precision Shots from the rule because they already have it).
I'm on the wall about Infiltrate. Historically, only Space Marine Veterans could infiltrate in power armour, since it's clunky and clumsy to move around in. I think Infiltrate comes under that rarely-invoked umbrella of "things you need a black carapace to do in power armour". On the other hand, it's kinda vital to them being an effective unit - deathmarks only work as 24" snipers because they deepstrike, after all.
Hmm, how about using the Lictor's/Marbo's "Hidden Set-up" rule instead of Infiltrate? Representing the fact the Reapers were in position long before the enemy army arrived?
I like Thrones, but as Bikers without Relentless (pointless to take it away really since they all have assault weapons) or Armoured Steed, 20 ppm is too high. I'd say 15 points per model is fair - that puts them in the same bracket as Seraphim, who are also (comparatively) fragile skirmishers who are likely to be right in the teeth of the enemy guns.
Novices are fun (lol, pettanko commandos... funny, but totally inappropriate), but why one special in every eight? Seems like a very strange number.
"That time I only loaded the cannon with powder. Next time, I will fill it with jewels and diamonds and they will cut you to shrebbons!" - Nogbad the Bad.
2013/10/13 11:29:33
Subject: Reapers, Bikers, & Little Sisters: Sororitas infiltrators, T3 fast bikes, & naive novices
Yeah, you may want to reconsider the name on the Reapers. Doesn't quite fit with Sororitas naming conventions. People also might confuse them with the Eldar units of a similar name.
Try looking at angel names or the church ranks for inspiration.
Order of the Righteous Armour - 542 points so far.
2013/10/13 15:31:08
Subject: Reapers, Bikers, & Little Sisters: Sororitas infiltrators, T3 fast bikes, & naive novices
Reapers or whatever we end up calling them I definitely need a thorough rewrite on the Reapers -- starting with the name. I'll ponder something more ecclesiastical and/or Latinate.
- Alex, I'd forgotten even Eldar Rangers were BS4. Ok, BS 5 is too much as a way to set them apart from regular Sisters, then. Likewise Shrouded is probably OTT, as you say (more on this below).
- Automaki, I'd also forgotten about Tellion's Stalker, but honestly I'm trying to avoid a Heavy weapon that makes them less mobile; my thought is that once they reveal their position, they're as mobile as any other non-Retributor Sisters. That's also why I'm not so worried about them announcing their presence with meltas and flamers, to address one of Furyou's points.
- Furyou does have me persuaded that the cover save is OTT and the AOF is a mess.
The reasons are related, actually: I'd originally planned on camo cloaks and an AOF that made them Shrouded, even in close combat. Then I realized it takes a hell of a cover save (2+) to be a worthy alternative to power armour (3+) -- well, unless you're facing AP 3 weapons, which are actually pretty common; I hadn't considered that. So I decided to make them Shrouded all the time, figuring it would usually be irrelevant because their armour save would still be better, and hastily cast about for another AOF. Your idea-- every hit, not just 6s, is a Precision shot - is much better and makes them supreme character-killers.
Though I don't think Camo Cloaks + a Stealth SR gives you +2, they just replicate each other. Not sure how or even whether to give them a +2 cover save.
I think I'll stick with Infiltrate rather than something like Marbo's "he's right behind you!" SR, which seems even more implausible in power armour. I actually at one point thought of giving them Carapace instead, but that seemed too un-Sisterly, so instead I came up with the fluff about blessing and anointing the power armour for stealth. It's a miracle!
Novices: Much less to fix here, especially since Lynata PM'd me that my fluff was canon-compatible. The main fluff change is to extract the bitchy nicknames and put them in the Sisters joke thread or maybe a separate "things 40K troops call each other" thread.
- Alex, I'm still inclined to keep the Novices WS 2. That keeps them 1 below regular Sisters in both WS and BS, and it balances the sudden flurry of melee bonuses their AOF gets them: they charge fearlessly with three attacks (A 1, charge, Rage), flail furiously at the enemy with the occasional hit, and then die. That WS 2 is why I'm not worried about the AOF being overpowered, to address Rav1rn's point.
- As Rav1rn suggested, I'll tone down "Sacrificial Lambs"; my idea is to give only the nearest Sisters unit the Preferred Enemy bonus, since they're the ones who saw the slaughter at close range and will feel the most responsible for letting their "Little Sisters" get hurt.
Question to all: with these changes, does 8 points per novice seem right?
Thrones Taking away Relentless does really seem too confusing, and I can get the desired effect by restricting their weapons options, ie no heavies.
- Clockwork: Their lightweight bikes have an SR taking away "armoured steed" so they don't get the +1 Toughness like a normal Bike.
-I'd love to drop their cost to 15 points, as Furyou suggests, but they are crazy fast as written. If they move and Turbo-boost, they're getting +6", which is getting close to an Eldar jetbike. If they move, charge, and either Sweeping Advance or Hit & Run, they're potentially moving 9" more than normal Bikes!
Now maybe that's utterly insane....what do people think?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/10/13 15:32:21
BURN IT DOWN BURN IT DOWN BABY BURN IT DOWN
Psienesis wrote: Well, if you check out Sister Sydney's homebrew/expansion rules, you'll find all kinds of units the Sisters could have, that fit with the theme of the Sisters (as a tabletop army) perfectly well, and are damn-near-perfectly balanced.
Understandable, but for me , the thing that just doesn't work is T4 Sisters.
BURN IT DOWN BURN IT DOWN BABY BURN IT DOWN
Psienesis wrote: Well, if you check out Sister Sydney's homebrew/expansion rules, you'll find all kinds of units the Sisters could have, that fit with the theme of the Sisters (as a tabletop army) perfectly well, and are damn-near-perfectly balanced.
SisterSydney wrote: Understandable, but for me , the thing that just doesn't work is T4 Sisters.
Eldar, who are basically made of glass have T4 bikes. I don't see how it's wrong for Sisters on bikes to be T4 as well. It's very clearly the design intent that the bikes make you a little harder to kill thanks to the fact your riding something made of metal (or wraithbone).
2013/10/13 17:45:20
Subject: Re:Reapers, Bikers, & Little Sisters: Sororitas infiltrators, T3 fast bikes, & naive novices
I'm not an expert on SoB so I won't comment the rules themselves, but why do the reapers and bikes have 3 wounds each? It seems a bit to much especially since they are normal humans and bikes generally don't increase the amount of wounds.
My armies:
vior'la sept 12k
Erik Morkai's great company 6k
dark mechanicus, the dearth of hope, 8k
rothwyr morwan's company 1,5k
Adeptus custodes 2k
AoS, The forgotten order, SE, 3k
2013/10/13 18:03:50
Subject: Reapers, Bikers, & Little Sisters: Sororitas infiltrators, T3 fast bikes, & naive novices
SisterSydney wrote: Understandable, but for me , the thing that just doesn't work is T4 Sisters.
In one of our campaigns, we had a special ally option in the form of a homebrew Sororitas Order. They had T4 all across the board, and they were A-W-E-S-O-M-E . Yeah, they were something like 21 points per model (T4 wasn't their only trick) but everyone and their kittens brought them just because they were SoBand they kicked ass big time.
My armies:
14000 points
2013/10/13 18:11:05
Subject: Re:Reapers, Bikers, & Little Sisters: Sororitas infiltrators, T3 fast bikes, & naive novices
Dantioch wrote: I'm not an expert on SoB so I won't comment the rules themselves, but why do the reapers and bikes have 3 wounds each? It seems a bit to much especially since they are normal humans and bikes generally don't increase the amount of wounds.
Good point. I hadn't caught that.
2013/10/13 19:25:54
Subject: Reapers, Bikers, & Little Sisters: Sororitas infiltrators, T3 fast bikes, & naive novices
Price increase: the closest similar unit is the Tau stealthsuit, the price should be thusly comparable but still lower due to inferior weaponry Special ammunition, sniper units often have specialised ammuition Heavy sniper weapons: great markswomen should not be wasted Remove stealth, camo-cloaks purchasable Icy calm special rule; their own little twist, just to make them interesting
Only the best markswomen in the Sisterhood are considered for the elite Reapers. Only the most cold-blooded make the final cut. If the Repentia unnerve many regular Sisters with their screaming fury, Reapers are considered uncanny for their icy calm and their near-total silence: Reapers communicate with each other almost entirely in sign language, whether in the field or in their own home convent, nor do they pray aloud or join in hymns of praise or hate. Shrouded in sacred stealth cloaks, their power armour annointed with sacred lubricants to move without a sound, Reapers infiltrate into key positions and then wait hours, days, or weeks to observe the enemy and -- if so ordered -- strike.
Unit Composition: 1 Reaper Superior 4 Reapers
Unit Type: Infantry; Superior is Infantry (Character)
Wargear: Power armour Boltgun Frag Grenades Krak Grenades
Special Rules: Acts of Faith Shield of Faith Infiltrate Move Through Cover Night Vision Shrouded Icy calm Unique Act of Faith: Divine Vengeance*
*Unique Act of Faith: Divine Vengeance The Reapers intone a silent prayer and fire with impossible precision. You may attempt this Act of Faith at the start of your own Shooting Phase. If successful, all the Reapers' make precision shots until the end of the Phase.
Dedicated Transport: A Reaper squad may never take a dedicated transport.
Options: The Reaper Superior may take Ranged or Melee weapons. The Reaper Superior may take melta bombs................................................................ 5points Add up to five additional Reapers:................................................................................. 25pts/model Any Reaper may replace her boltgun with a scoped bolter........................................... 5pts/model Any Reaper may replace her boltgun with a sniper rifle with inferno rounds ................ 5pts/model Bolters may be upgraded to fire special ammunition..................................................... 5pts/model Every model in the squad may take camo-cloaks......................................................... 1pt/model For every two models in the squad, one may replace her boltgun with a Sororitas Special Weapon.
Scoped Bolter: Reapers often carry high-accuracy boltguns with powerful targeting scopes wired directly into their helmet displays. A Scoped Bolter is Master-Crafted weapon. Each to-hit roll of 6 results in a Precision Shot (BRBpg. 63). Range 24" Strength:4 AP:5 Rapid Fire
Special ammunition: Reapers bolters are often loaded with special ammunition, making their already lethal aim even deadlier. After deployment, but before infiltration, declare the ammunition type that the reapers will be using for the game. Special ammunition types can be found in most MEQ codexes.
Icy Calm Reapers' calm does not only manifest externally, such calm can only come from extreme focus... Reroll to wound rolls of 1 if the unit has not moved this turn, applies to overwatch.
Inferno rounds Inferno rounds are as hot as the Reapers are cold, hot-loaded to burn right through the toughest of armour, the large cauterised hole they leave as a wound is by far their most distinguished feature and all who recognise it fear it. Inferno rounds fire with the following profile; Range: 36" S: X(8*) Ap3 Heavy 1, Sniper. Inferno rounds count as S8 when determining instant death.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2013/10/13 19:59:56
Scouts and Forward Observer Veterans were both FAQ'd so that Camo Cloaks give a +1 Cover Save, and stack with Stealth (previously, they just granted Stealth).
"That time I only loaded the cannon with powder. Next time, I will fill it with jewels and diamonds and they will cut you to shrebbons!" - Nogbad the Bad.
2013/10/14 02:05:13
Subject: Reapers, Bikers, & Little Sisters: Sororitas infiltrators, T3 fast bikes, & naive novices
la'DunX wrote: Price increase: the closest similar unit is the Tau stealthsuit, the price should be thusly comparable but still lower due to inferior weaponry.....
Your 25-point version is frickin' terrifying. An amazing unit, but I think a lot too powerful for me.
Dantioch wrote: I'm not an expert on SoB so I won't comment the rules themselves, but why do the reapers and bikes have 3 wounds each? It seems a bit to much especially since they are normal humans and bikes generally don't increase the amount of wounds.
DOH. Typo. Will fix. Thanks!
Furyou Miko wrote: Scouts and Forward Observer Veterans were both FAQ'd so that Camo Cloaks give a +1 Cover Save, and stack with Stealth (previously, they just granted Stealth).
I did not know that. That's a nice wrinkle. I'd love a link to that FAQ.
Automatically Appended Next Post: PS: Some great back-and-forth on what canon actually does or does not say about Novices on this page of the Wishlist thread. Not me being great, other people with more fluff knowledge being great.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I've also realized, belatedly, that a lot of people find fiction that puts children in danger is deeply disturbing, that adding child soldiers to a fictional setting crosses the line from "grim darkness" to "squick."
I get that. I respect that. I even admire it. Perhaps it would be better if my mind didn't go such dark places. But I'm not going to stop going there, at least not for now.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2013/10/14 03:54:51
BURN IT DOWN BURN IT DOWN BABY BURN IT DOWN
Psienesis wrote: Well, if you check out Sister Sydney's homebrew/expansion rules, you'll find all kinds of units the Sisters could have, that fit with the theme of the Sisters (as a tabletop army) perfectly well, and are damn-near-perfectly balanced.
la'DunX wrote: Price increase: the closest similar unit is the Tau stealthsuit, the price should be thusly comparable but still lower due to inferior weaponry.....
Your 25-point version is frickin' terrifying. An amazing unit, but I think a lot too powerful for me.
Haha, yeah, as you've probably surmised I play a lot of tau so I'm used to paying 200pts and getting something very killy; you should see what I've done to my pathfinders...
I think perhaps bring Bs down to 4 and make the bolter rounds "blessed" 30" S4 Ap4
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/10/14 07:32:54
I like the fluff to the bikes. In crunch, though, I think this unit is going to be a waste of points. I dunno. Would need to test them on the table to see if the loss of Relentless and Armored Steed is worth the gain to movement.
Love the Novices. However, the Mistress of Novices needs to carry a neural whip (like the Repentia Mistress) or a power-ruler.
It is best to be a pessimist. You are usually right and, when you're wrong, you're pleasantly surprised.
2013/10/14 21:27:16
Subject: Reapers, Bikers, & Little Sisters: Sororitas infiltrators, T3 fast bikes, & naive novices
Psienesis wrote: I like the fluff to the bikes. In crunch, though, I think this unit is going to be a waste of points. I dunno. Would need to test them on the table to see if the loss of Relentless and Armored Steed is worth the gain to movement
That's another vote for costing them at 15 points instead of 20, then.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/10/14 21:28:58
BURN IT DOWN BURN IT DOWN BABY BURN IT DOWN
Psienesis wrote: Well, if you check out Sister Sydney's homebrew/expansion rules, you'll find all kinds of units the Sisters could have, that fit with the theme of the Sisters (as a tabletop army) perfectly well, and are damn-near-perfectly balanced.
Just out f curiosity, did anyone else read "Little Sisters" and think of Bioshock?
Greebo had spent an irritating two minutes in that box. Technically, a cat locked in a box may be alive or it may be dead. You never know until you look. In fact, the mere act of opening the box will determine the state of the cat, although in this case there were three determinate states the cat could be in: these being Alive, Dead, and Bloody Furious.
Orks always ride in single file to hide their strength and numbers.
Gozer the Gozerian, Gozer the Destructor, Volguus Zildrohar, Gozer the Traveler, and Lord of the Sebouillia
2013/10/14 22:09:47
Subject: Reapers, Bikers, & Little Sisters: Sororitas infiltrators, T3 fast bikes, & naive novices
Bioshock 2 just got a little more Grimdark to me.
Little girls going around looking for "angels" whilst protected by bigger girls in strong armour who fling fire at you. Meanwhile you are watching out for really big guys who also wear said armour...
Greebo had spent an irritating two minutes in that box. Technically, a cat locked in a box may be alive or it may be dead. You never know until you look. In fact, the mere act of opening the box will determine the state of the cat, although in this case there were three determinate states the cat could be in: these being Alive, Dead, and Bloody Furious.
Orks always ride in single file to hide their strength and numbers.
Gozer the Gozerian, Gozer the Destructor, Volguus Zildrohar, Gozer the Traveler, and Lord of the Sebouillia
2013/10/14 22:43:43
Subject: Reapers, Bikers, & Little Sisters: Sororitas infiltrators, T3 fast bikes, & naive novices
Psienesis wrote:However, the Mistress of Novices needs to carry a neural whip (like the Repentia Mistress) or a power-ruler.
Exalted.
The power ruler reminds me of Mr. Neuro-Spatula.
Spoiler:
Psienesis wrote:Hmm, I dunno... wide-eyed innocents with an undeniably creepy air, protected by comparatively hulking figures in Power Armor? Sounds like Novitiate Sisters to me.
Funny, the power-ruler reminds me of this little gem (thank you Psienesis)
Psienesis wrote: Sister Raven is at prayers in the chapel. Sister Koriander limps up, looking absolutely all beat to hell.
Sister Raven: Throne of Terra, Sister Koriander! Are you OK?
Sister Koriander: Ugghhh.... no....
SR: What is it? Orks? Necrons? Heretics?!
SK: No, worse...
SR: Worse?! DAEMONS?!
SK: No... do you know Sister Superior Constantia?
SR: <blinking in confusion> The one who teaches Imperium History? Uh, yes? What about her?
SK: <sighs ruefully> Her power-ruler arrived with the morning transport...
SR: <eyes widening in horror> Throne preserve us...
Greebo had spent an irritating two minutes in that box. Technically, a cat locked in a box may be alive or it may be dead. You never know until you look. In fact, the mere act of opening the box will determine the state of the cat, although in this case there were three determinate states the cat could be in: these being Alive, Dead, and Bloody Furious.
Orks always ride in single file to hide their strength and numbers.
Gozer the Gozerian, Gozer the Destructor, Volguus Zildrohar, Gozer the Traveler, and Lord of the Sebouillia
2013/10/14 23:46:36
Subject: Reapers, Bikers, & Little Sisters: Sororitas infiltrators, T3 fast bikes, & naive novices
Heh, the model idea *and* that joke bit there were partially inspired by an image of some terrifying-looking angry nun (RL kind, not the kind with power armor) with a ruler in hand from an artist named Dave Mire (or maybe Meyer, I forget). I was thinking (based on the look on her face) that Sisters Superior are kind of like the Commissars of the Sororitas... if there's something scary up front, but something even scarier in the back.
It is best to be a pessimist. You are usually right and, when you're wrong, you're pleasantly surprised.
2013/10/15 02:05:48
Subject: Reapers, Bikers, & Little Sisters: Sororitas infiltrators, T3 fast bikes, & naive novices
Tenebrae Latin for "shadows" or "darkness" -- and of an evening service of extinguishing candles that is held three times during Holy Week, specifically on the day before Jesus's death (Thursday), the day of His death (Friday), and the day He lay in the tomb (Saturday). Religious, grim, and appropriate to infiltrators.
Vindicta Latin for "vengeance" (or a particular kind of rod...) -- I think this is the more proper form of AtoMaki's suggestion "vindictus" and happens to have a lovely femine-sounding ending.
Vigils Basically it means keeping watch, especially at night, but there's nice quadruple meaning here:
- night (since vigils are usually held overnight) and thus concealment, appropriate for infiltrators
- a religious observance (appropriate for Sisters)
- military vigilance (ditto)
- vigilante violence (ditto)
BURN IT DOWN BURN IT DOWN BABY BURN IT DOWN
Psienesis wrote: Well, if you check out Sister Sydney's homebrew/expansion rules, you'll find all kinds of units the Sisters could have, that fit with the theme of the Sisters (as a tabletop army) perfectly well, and are damn-near-perfectly balanced.
Vindicta Latin for "vengeance" (or a particular kind of rod...) -- I think this is the more proper form of AtoMaki's suggestion "vindictus" and happens to have a lovely femine-sounding ending.
The vindicta is the noun form. Vindictus is the attribute form. A good parallel would be vindicta(revenge)/retribution and vindictus(revenger)/retributor. That's why I think vindictus is the better option.
14000 points 
vior'la sept 12k
Erik Morkai's great company 6k
dark mechanicus, the dearth of hope, 8k
rothwyr morwan's company 1,5k
. Yeah, they were something like 21 points per model (T4 wasn't their only trick) but everyone and their kittens brought them just because they were 
