Now that Wolves have hit, The next 40k army will be Grey Knights. This release will be codex and data cards only. There will be zero kits for this release.
Should be soon. BA and DE could be down the road, but my source says GK. He's been right so many times.
No new models sounds weird for a codex release this important. But so far everything he predicted was right on.
Though they could release new different bundles without having actual new models. Or they could do a new Stormclaw like boxset with the rumored new daemons/csm units as the opposing faction.
UPDATED 8/8
via an anonymous source on Faeit 212
Next weeks White Dwarf cover reads like the following.......
Dare You Read The New Codex?
Grey Knights
Beware, Daemons, For Your Time Has Come.
From a source of L'Astropate
SANCTUS REACH: HOUR OF THE WOLF €39,00
Limited edition, English. 5 new Planetstrike missions for SW and Orks.
WARRIORS OF THE FANG €140,00
New box: 1x SM Commander, 1x Long Fangs, 1x Sky Claws, 2x Space Wolves Pack, 1x Drop Pod.
SPACE WOLVES SKYCLAWS €29,00
5 Space Wolves equipped as an Assault Squad.
SPACE WOLVES LONG FANGS €29,00
5 Space Wolves equipped as a Devastator Squad.
CODEX: GREY KNIGHTS €39,00
DATACARDS: GREY KNIGHTS (ENGLISH) €6,50
Limited edition, English.
GREY KNIGHTS STRIKE SQUAD €47,50
Grey Knights repack. 10 models.
SANCTUS REACH: BLOOD ON THE MOUNTAIN €17,50
THE GREY KNIGHTS OMNIBUS €17,50
WHITE DWARF WEEKLY 30 (ENGLISH) €3,20
and for all the leaked picture of the digital codex:
No new models? Hmmmmm that sounds fishy. Though the digital books didn't get models, so it's not out of the question. While there might not be new models, they could just stuff the codex with stuff like Whirlwinds, Thunderfire Cannons, Storm Talons, and other things vanilla mariners get.
As a new player (I've read a few codices, but I haven't bought any models), GK interest me. I think smaller "elite" armies would be better starters since they cost less.
l0k1 wrote: No new models? Hmmmmm that sounds fishy. Though the digital books didn't get models, so it's not out of the question. While there might not be new models, they could just stuff the codex with stuff like Whirlwinds, Thunderfire Cannons, Storm Talons, and other things vanilla mariners get.
Regardless, I'm interested, but not hopeful.
Given what the update for their FAQ put in profiles for Whirlwinds and Predators, I won't be surprised if they did that. It would round out the army's inventory, if you don't count having troop termies as a replacement for a lack of MBTs.
Why no new models though? I'm not huge on what GK need or want but surely they're lacking a couple bits and pieces?
Grey knights are missing Grand Master Mordra and his Ghost knights and a named inquisitor (which wasnt in the inquisition dex). Everything else technically has an official model. Most of the inquisitional henchmen are in blisters of 1 or 2 per box.
Why no new models though? I'm not huge on what GK need or want but surely they're lacking a couple bits and pieces?
Grey knights are missing Grand Master Mordra and his Ghost knights and a named inquisitor (which wasnt in the inquisition dex). Everything else technically has an official model. Most of the inquisitional henchmen are in blisters of 1 or 2 per box.
While it sucks that GK players wouldn't get new models, it does save GW money since kits for those tanks already exist, and it boosts sales on those existing kits.
Why no new models though? I'm not huge on what GK need or want but surely they're lacking a couple bits and pieces?
Grey knights are missing Grand Master Mordra and his Ghost knights and a named inquisitor (which wasnt in the inquisition dex). Everything else technically has an official model. Most of the inquisitional henchmen are in blisters of 1 or 2 per box.
Why no new models though? I'm not huge on what GK need or want but surely they're lacking a couple bits and pieces?
Grey knights are missing Grand Master Mordra and his Ghost knights and a named inquisitor (which wasnt in the inquisition dex). Everything else technically has an official model. Most of the inquisitional henchmen are in blisters of 1 or 2 per box.
@ace While it sucks that GK players wouldn't get new models, it does save GW money since kits for those tanks already exist, and it boost a sales.
It could be a way to promote the rumored Daemon release while selling some of the SM units that GK can now (theoretically) take. A couple Strike Squads and a Whirlwind plus Character etc.
So maybe there's no new codex at all, just a Sanctus Reach style box with GK and er, someone else (Daemons would be the most logical choice). Given how fast Sanctus sold out, more of the same would surely appeal to GW's bean counters, and such boxes are minimal effort to produce (especially if they don't even bother including a couple of new Sanctus-style commander models).
Tweek the rules, bring psychic powers up to 7th edition.....and done. They don't really need anything new as they are supposed to be anti demon, but I could see them bring the other tanks and jets in as limited qty models. Plus they probably still want to get their stuff out now before dreamforge games gets the rest of their overdue kickstarter completed so they sell the GW kits to the impatient players before nicer kits come out.
Breotan wrote: Grey Knights? Seriously? Where the hell are the damned Bretonnians? Son of a...
I'm not asking this to be cute, I honestly can't remember, but:
When was the last Fantasy release? Dwarves in Feb right? It's seriously been 5 months without another Fantasy release with that number looking like it's just going to go up?
It's specialist games all over again, they do nothing to excite the community, generate interest or drive sales, then, when it gets flushed, turn around and say "well, nobody was playing it!"
Breotan wrote: Grey Knights? Seriously? Where the hell are the damned Bretonnians? Son of a...
I'm not asking this to be cute, I honestly can't remember, but:
When was the last Fantasy release? Dwarves in Feb right? It's seriously been 5 months without another Fantasy release with that number looking like it's just going to go up?
Breotan wrote: Grey Knights? Seriously? Where the hell are the damned Bretonnians? Son of a...
I'm not asking this to be cute, I honestly can't remember, but:
When was the last Fantasy release? Dwarves in Feb right? It's seriously been 5 months without another Fantasy release with that number looking like it's just going to go up?
I know 40K is their money maker, but seriously.
Wood Elves was in May.
Ah, thank you. The past 6 months have kinda all run together(whoo, baby prep).
I hope it is false. I like my GK codex just fine and don't feel like being taxed another $50 to play the game a few times a year. And predators and whirlwinds are the last thing that fits the GK theme.
I'd be surprised if we see two back to back Imperial Releases, when was the last time that happened?
I could see a mini Daemon wave followed up with a Daemon vs. Grey Knight campaign box with the Grey Knight codex following. Depending on the contents I'd be buying many boxes of the campaign box.
GK could do with a dual plastic kit for henchmen and servitors, not sure they would sell well enough to justify the cost and I'd expect all the Inquisition options to be removed but still.
With the current focus around unbound it doesn't make sense to me to remove options from codexes for units that already have models elsewhere; wouldn't they sell more Guard if you could take them as troops in the GK codex? Likewise with Leman Russes in the Space Wolves Codex?
There is quite a bit they could add to GK, especially if Inquisition gets pulled out fully.
Kitwise, they could use a Dreadnought at the minimum. New units they could add in say Jetbikes so FA has more than one entry, Chaplains to match the fluff, they could do GK Centurions with dual psycannons.
This would seem a bit ham handed to do? No Fantasy for awhile when Brets were gettin' a lot of folks hot and bothered. And Grey Knights? They have a really good book, still. Blood Angels need love badly, alone with Dark Eldar to an extent.
It's like you could just re-release the Grey Knight book in hardcover with the previous errata that was in the 6E FAQ and call it good... wait a second...
MajorWesJanson wrote: There is quite a bit they could add to GK, especially if Inquisition gets pulled out fully.
Kitwise, they could use a Dreadnought at the minimum. New units they could add in say Jetbikes so FA has more than one entry, Chaplains to match the fluff, they could do GK Centurions with dual psycannons.
Centrutions with: >Psycannons
>Psilencers
>Incinarators
>Psybolt Ammo
I could go for that.
MajorWesJanson wrote: There is quite a bit they could add to GK, especially if Inquisition gets pulled out fully.
Kitwise, they could use a Dreadnought at the minimum. New units they could add in say Jetbikes so FA has more than one entry, Chaplains to match the fluff, they could do GK Centurions with dual psycannons.
Centrutions with: >Psycannons
>Psilencers
>Incinarators
>Psybolt Ammo
I could go for that.
So could I.
That said, I do not expect GK to be coming out yet. I'd put more trust in the BA and Dark Eldar being next, possibly with some daemon stuff in between.
Wouldn't be surprised if this was a codex only release. GK by themselves (not really including any of that i inquisitor henchmen crap) don't really need anything except maybe a dread, and a plastic Grand Master/captain model. None of those are super important so I can see GW not releasing them. I would say that Mordak needs a model too but knowing GW they'll just cut him from the next codex...
I actually almost buy this rumor. I mean, that source has been good, but a codex release without any models sounds really weird. That being said, GK are pretty taken care of in the modeling aspect, and unless they started filling in the gaps of the Inquisition units (henchmen, inquisitors, etc) or introduced some new unit when it already felt like a pretty crowded codex given the few boxes of actual models out there, I don't know what they'd actually release for them. I like the idea of GW releasing codices without models or models without codices as they see fit though - that's kind of the point of the weekly release schedule, isn't it?
GW isn't releasing the GK without new kits. other than some of the SoB updates (they never got a codex really) this has never happened, and its not going to start.
they're here to make money, they need existing players to buy new kits, so they make new kits. GKs won't break this trend.
They pretty much have most of their core models, and unless they are updating the old metal/Finecast models like the Brotherhood Champion I wouldn't expect new kits. I don't expect Mordrak or Ghost Knights to go as Ghost Knights are just Termies with rules and paintjob. Mordrak is an asy clampack sell. I would like a plastic "SM Commander/CSMTDA Lord" plastic kit. One where you get a single, fancy Terminator with all weapon options and build it yourself. 1 each of Hammer, Sword, Stave, Falchion pairs, Halberd, Stormbolter, Psycannon, Incinerator and Psilincer. The thing would sell like hotcakes for the spare weapons alone.
How about a plastic Inquisitor kit? They've only got four finecast sculpts left on the site (none of the female ones remain).and could use at least a plastic monopose with some weapon options.
The BA in me will be annoyed if we're delayed yet again.
sockwithaticket wrote: How about a plastic Inquisitor kit? They've only got four finecast sculpts left on the site (none of the female ones remain).and could use at least a plastic monopose with some weapon options.
The BA in me will be annoyed if we're delayed yet again.
Inquisitors are just too diverse to have a plastic kit for. The best Inquisitors are the 4 Finecast ones, or conversions. A plastic Inquisitor just doesn't appeal to me.
Without new models, I don't expect this to be a good thing (if it's true, of course). Things to expect will be arbitrary points increases and the addition of many, many random tables.
Deadshot wrote: They pretty much have most of their core models, and unless they are updating the old metal/Finecast models like the Brotherhood Champion I wouldn't expect new kits.
For real? You actually don't expect new kits? You honestly think GW won't spend weeks releasing one or two new GK models (be they units or single-frame plastic characters) for 2-3 weeks along with a Codex during one of those weeks? This is GW we're talking about here.
Deadshot wrote: They pretty much have most of their core models, and unless they are updating the old metal/Finecast models like the Brotherhood Champion I wouldn't expect new kits.
For real? You actually don't expect new kits? You honestly think GW won't spend weeks releasing one or two new GK models (be they units or single-frame plastic characters) for 2-3 weeks along with a Codex during one of those weeks? This is GW we're talking about here.
Why would I? There's a reason Whirlwinds, Predators and Vindicators wrre left out, they don't fit the GK's MO. Land Speeders are pretty obselete as the GK just teleport everywhere they need, bikes are the same. They have teleporters instead of Jump Packs. The only thing I could see them getting is maybe the Stormfang/Stormwolf, but unlikely as they are likely local Fenrisian patterns they won't ahare with the Inquisition. Stormtalons maybe but they are primarily escort craft and strafing runs, both of which are unnnessecary. If they can't teleport down they fly in a Stormraven which can do all the Stormtalon can and more. Their primary foe has no flyers other than Daemon Princes, Bloodthristers and Lords of Change, and all of those will be close enough melee. Stormravens keep them out of the air, and Dreadknights kill them up close. Stalkers or Hunters are not nessecary as they are slow and cumbersome, and as mentioned, unnessecary. Centurions are for sieges, which the GK don't do. DevCents might be useful equipped with Psycannons but that's about it.
If the GK get any models, it'll be a plastic clampack Brotherhood Champion, a plastic Captain/Grand Master and a new set of Assassins maybe. A plastic kit that can make any 1 of the 4? That would be nice.
Then I'm sorry, but you're nuts. GW releases models. That's pretty much all they do, stopping occasionally to release some paints with useless names.
GW will invent new units for the Grey Knights and make GK versions of existing units for the Grey Knights. They will release 3-6 new kits (including characters) to go along side their book. That's what they always do.
sockwithaticket wrote: How about a plastic Inquisitor kit? They've only got four finecast sculpts left on the site (none of the female ones remain).and could use at least a plastic monopose with some weapon options.
The BA in me will be annoyed if we're delayed yet again.
Inquisitors are just too diverse to have a plastic kit for. The best Inquisitors are the 4 Finecast ones, or conversions. A plastic Inquisitor just doesn't appeal to me.
Plastic is perfect for diversity: Empire Captains, Empire Wizards, Space Marine Commander, Chaos Terminator Lord.
It truly baffles me that there aren't more mult-part, plastic generic HQ's out there. While a plastic Inquisitor might not appeal to you, the finecast ones don't appeal to myself (or others I know) for a host of reasons that have been done to death elsewhere. Those models are incredibly limiting in terms of pose and equipment, definitely not representative of the Inquisition's diversity. Making your own out of plastic parts is currently not that easy unless you're going down the terminator route (particularly if you have limited green stuff and plasticard ability).
I recognise that a multi-part is likely out of the question, but a monopose with x2 heads, x2 guns, x2/3 other weapons/objects, surely wouldn't be completely out of the question?
H.B.M.C. wrote: Then I'm sorry, but you're nuts. GW releases models. That's pretty much all they do, stopping occasionally to release some paints with useless names.
GW will invent new units for the Grey Knights and make GK versions of existing units for the Grey Knights. They will release 3-6 new kits (including characters) to go along side their book. That's what they always do.
I've named models I see coming out. I don't see more units coming out, GK have everything covered by current kits.
Could this be an even quicker money grab for GW? I mean with the discussion thread of Kirby stepping down and the expectations of a poor yearly around the corner its a pretty quick answer. You "fix/break" a few things so they become the new hotness again and get people to buy up the models they already have kits of (no outlay of cash for new molds), and sell $50 codex or $50 icodex, or special limited edition codex that are misprints.....I mean warp influenced for $300 like the space wolf book.
The other option is they really thought everyone built an army of psychers with unbound in mind so maybe a new dex will rake in tons of money countering those armies .
Skaven should get an update before GKs, maybe even a 2 month consecutive update. A lot of their models are pewter or primitive CAD plastics, whilst the book is blatantly designed for 7th edition and has loads of overpriced special characters.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Then I'm sorry, but you're nuts. GW releases models. That's pretty much all they do, stopping occasionally to release some paints with useless names.
GW will invent new units for the Grey Knights and make GK versions of existing units for the Grey Knights. They will release 3-6 new kits (including characters) to go along side their book. That's what they always do.
I've named models I see coming out. I don't see more units coming out, GK have everything covered by current kits.
That doesn't make much sense.. GW will simply invent new units, such as COdex: Grey Knights compared to Codex: demonhunters.. Come on, think back to.. EVERY single other codex release!
sockwithaticket wrote: How about a plastic Inquisitor kit? They've only got four finecast sculpts left on the site (none of the female ones remain).and could use at least a plastic monopose with some weapon options.
The BA in me will be annoyed if we're delayed yet again.
Considering Wood Elves got one single generic plastic characters(Araloth is a Special Character, the Treeman kit is a triple kit which can build a Treeman Ancient as an afterthought compared to Durthu and the generic Treeman Rare choice) while Orks got 3(Big Mek with SAG, Mek with Killsaw and Kustom Mega Slugga, Painboy) , it is anyone's guess.
I would not hold my breath for an Inquisitor though. I would be surprised if they stayed in the book.
In addition to making business sense, the GK Codex is actually pretty thin in many places, and that becomes especially true if you remove Inquisition forces. I'd expect some more Fast Attack and Troop options personally.
Honestly it wouldn't surprise me at all if instead of removing the Inquisitorial elements they threw in SoB and Deathwatch (aka buy SM stuff and paint it black) elements.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Then I'm sorry, but you're nuts. GW releases models. That's pretty much all they do, stopping occasionally to release some paints with useless names.
GW will invent new units for the Grey Knights and make GK versions of existing units for the Grey Knights. They will release 3-6 new kits (including characters) to go along side their book. That's what they always do.
I've named models I see coming out. I don't see more units coming out, GK have everything covered by current kits.
That doesn't make much sense.. GW will simply invent new units, such as COdex: Grey Knights compared to Codex: demonhunters.. Come on, think back to.. EVERY single other codex release!
Every other release EVER added more units the Codex was lacking. GK are not lacking anything. The only thing added that was added and not needed was Centurions, but I guess Personnel sized siege weapons is a good idea. GK have everything they need in the current kits. Psykers, Flyers, Monstrous Creatures...they were built for 6th Ed, which 7th is simply an update for. The only things needed to change are the Psychic powers and add Warlord Traits.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Then I'm sorry, but you're nuts. GW releases models. That's pretty much all they do, stopping occasionally to release some paints with useless names.
GW will invent new units for the Grey Knights and make GK versions of existing units for the Grey Knights. They will release 3-6 new kits (including characters) to go along side their book. That's what they always do.
This.
The only, only way for GK to get a "codex" without new miniatures is if it's a Sisters of Battle style WD/Online army list.
Deadshot wrote: Every other release EVER added more units the Codex was lacking. GK are not lacking anything. The only thing added that was added and not needed was Centurions, but I guess Personnel sized siege weapons is a good idea. GK have everything they need in the current kits. Psykers, Flyers, Monstrous Creatures...they were built for 6th Ed, which 7th is simply an update for. The only things needed to change are the Psychic powers and add Warlord Traits.
Your arguement is about as bogus as possible.
At many points throughout the last 25 years, several armies haven't "needed" anything. GW has always found something to put out new models. You even refrence one of the units!
Just because YOU don't think GK are "lacking anything" doesn't mean GW agrees.
They can/have/will jam something into a Codex because they are a minatures company, not a rules company.
Clearly false rumours. Everyone knows we're getting Lord Kaldor Dreadknight as a LOW. 10's across the board, 666 points. Any enemy models in this characters LOS are removed from play.
Tannhauser42 wrote: GW could take the lazy route and just put the GK stuff from Forgeworld into the book and make plastic kits for them.
There's not really much on Forgeworld for Grey Knights at all. Even then, GW isn't huge on making Forgeworld kits into plastic kits. The Hydra is the only one in recent years I can think of.
Deadshot wrote: Every other release EVER added more units the Codex was lacking. GK are not lacking anything. The only thing added that was added and not needed was Centurions, but I guess Personnel sized siege weapons is a good idea. GK have everything they need in the current kits. Psykers, Flyers, Monstrous Creatures...they were built for 6th Ed, which 7th is simply an update for. The only things needed to change are the Psychic powers and add Warlord Traits.
Your arguement is about as bogus as possible.
At many points throughout the last 25 years, several armies haven't "needed" anything. GW has always found something to put out new models. You even refrence one of the units!
Just because YOU don't think GK are "lacking anything" doesn't mean GW agrees.
They can/have/will jam something into a Codex because they are a minatures company, not a rules company.
Then please enlighten me as to what the Grey Knights lack?
And yes, I have referenced something that was not a necessity, Centurions. Needed? No. Do they perform a unique function? Yes.
Deadshot wrote: Every other release EVER added more units the Codex was lacking. GK are not lacking anything. The only thing added that was added and not needed was Centurions, but I guess Personnel sized siege weapons is a good idea. GK have everything they need in the current kits. Psykers, Flyers, Monstrous Creatures...they were built for 6th Ed, which 7th is simply an update for. The only things needed to change are the Psychic powers and add Warlord Traits.
Your arguement is about as bogus as possible.
At many points throughout the last 25 years, several armies haven't "needed" anything. GW has always found something to put out new models. You even refrence one of the units!
Just because YOU don't think GK are "lacking anything" doesn't mean GW agrees.
They can/have/will jam something into a Codex because they are a minatures company, not a rules company.
Then please enlighten me as to what the Grey Knights lack?
And yes, I have referenced something that was not a necessity, Centurions. Needed? No. Do they perform a unique function? Yes.
I think the general point was that even if a codex isn't lacking something, then GW will create something new.
Deadshot wrote: Every other release EVER added more units the Codex was lacking. GK are not lacking anything. The only thing added that was added and not needed was Centurions, but I guess Personnel sized siege weapons is a good idea. GK have everything they need in the current kits. Psykers, Flyers, Monstrous Creatures...they were built for 6th Ed, which 7th is simply an update for. The only things needed to change are the Psychic powers and add Warlord Traits.
Your arguement is about as bogus as possible.
At many points throughout the last 25 years, several armies haven't "needed" anything. GW has always found something to put out new models. You even refrence one of the units!
Just because YOU don't think GK are "lacking anything" doesn't mean GW agrees.
They can/have/will jam something into a Codex because they are a minatures company, not a rules company.
Then please enlighten me as to what the Grey Knights lack?
And yes, I have referenced something that was not a necessity, Centurions. Needed? No. Do they perform a unique function? Yes.
I think the general point was that even if a codex isn't lacking something, then GW will create something new.
They lack anti-air.
Expect either the hunter/stalker kit or a new kit for another variant of Dreadnought for anti-air/ more Ornate GK Dreadnought.
I could see there being a release without models, and a few different ways for this.
1: If they do a digital update, like they did with the SoB and BA (People seem to forget about the BA digital updated codex) then there wouldn't be a model release.
2: If all they're doing is giving GK access to already available kits, then I don't see why they would need to release brand new kits.
But I also find it very unlikely, that they won't come out with SOMETHING new for them. just because thats how GW works. perhaps a unique centurion box with an upgrade sprue, or reboxing the Dreadknight with additional options.
Do you guys think that this just might be taking Inquisitorial forces out of the GK codex so that you have to buy the Inquisition book? No longer 2 coteaz maybe.
I would be so sad pandas at that point (though i have both books so not as big a deal)
But personally i wouldnt mind a Inquisition book separate then the individual daemon,witch,alien hunters again if it give them all individually which i wouldn't mind paying for.
Deadshot wrote: Every other release EVER added more units the Codex was lacking. GK are not lacking anything. The only thing added that was added and not needed was Centurions, but I guess Personnel sized siege weapons is a good idea. GK have everything they need in the current kits. Psykers, Flyers, Monstrous Creatures...they were built for 6th Ed, which 7th is simply an update for. The only things needed to change are the Psychic powers and add Warlord Traits.
Your arguement is about as bogus as possible.
At many points throughout the last 25 years, several armies haven't "needed" anything. GW has always found something to put out new models. You even refrence one of the units!
Just because YOU don't think GK are "lacking anything" doesn't mean GW agrees.
They can/have/will jam something into a Codex because they are a minatures company, not a rules company.
Then please enlighten me as to what the Grey Knights lack?
And yes, I have referenced something that was not a necessity, Centurions. Needed? No. Do they perform a unique function? Yes.
I think the general point was that even if a codex isn't lacking something, then GW will create something new.
You are correct.
It's also not my responsiblity to prove they will create something to fill a void that either does or doesn't exist. GW themselves have the track record of doing it.
It's why your argument is bogus. Once again, just because YOU think GK don't need anything, doesn't mean GW agrees. As history provides many examples, I would bet you're on the wrong side of that arguement.
GK don't use anti air as they don't fight things with ariel support. The closest Daemons come to ariel support is flying Greater Daemons and Daemon Princes. Stormravens or a Talon is sufficient to keep the skies clear, and Dreadknights are specifically designed to kill them in melee.
GK don't use anti air as they don't fight things with ariel support. The closest Daemons come to ariel support is flying Greater Daemons and Daemon Princes. Stormravens or a Talon is sufficient to keep the skies clear, and Dreadknights are specifically designed to kill them in melee.
If GW sees a place to grab more money from its customers then they will. They will even retconn fluff to make sure that the specific unit works in fluff..
As for dreadnoughts, then why is it that most people I see take twin-psycannon Dreads and not anything for CC?
As I have said and will stand by it as speculation, expect another anti-air option for GK and maybe a new GK dread kit imo..
No new models? I call bull. They're not Sisters. The revamp made them relatively popular. If this was a digital-only release I could maybe get onboard, but it's not.
Even if it was only Special Characters who got models I'd still be more inclined to believe that but given their recent attitude of "shoehorn as much codex-specific crap as we can!" I highly, highly, doubt Grey Knights will be the exception.
Frankly, I don't think GW would miss the chance to release plastic Inquisitors. With the Allies rules and Unbound nonsense they'd be swimming in it and they know it.
GK don't use anti air as they don't fight things with ariel support. The closest Daemons come to ariel support is flying Greater Daemons and Daemon Princes. Stormravens or a Talon is sufficient to keep the skies clear, and Dreadknights are specifically designed to kill them in melee.
If GW sees a place to grab more money from its customers then they will. They will even retconn fluff to make sure that the specific unit works in fluff..
As for dreadnoughts, then why is it that most people I see take twin-psycannon Dreads and not anything for CC?
As I have said and will stand by it as speculation, expect another anti-air option for GK and maybe a new GK dread kit imo..
I'd be fine with a Dread kit that actually includes two autocannons.
GK don't use anti air as they don't fight things with ariel support. The closest Daemons come to ariel support is flying Greater Daemons and Daemon Princes. Stormravens or a Talon is sufficient to keep the skies clear, and Dreadknights are specifically designed to kill them in melee.
If GW sees a place to grab more money from its customers then they will. They will even retconn fluff to make sure that the specific unit works in fluff..
As for dreadnoughts, then why is it that most people I see take twin-psycannon Dreads and not anything for CC?
As I have said and will stand by it as speculation, expect another anti-air option for GK and maybe a new GK dread kit imo..
I'd be fine with a Dread kit that actually includes two autocannons.
Boom. GW just got a sale.
And this is why I can see personally see them making new models for GK... That and also GW have said that they are a model company first, etc, etc..
If GW is going to go down the "let's copy Privateer Press" route and make Santa Grimnar as rumored (epic casters), then I want royalties on eDraigo....
WrentheFaceless wrote: For as much flack as Matt Ward gets for his fluff, at least his codexes actually have good rules
True, but against other codices NOT written by him they're broke as **** (Notice how in 5e the top codices were GK, Crons, SW, and BA, all written by him)
40k would actually be fun as hell (with terrible fluff) if Ward was its only author, but alas....
TheKbob wrote: If GW is going to go down the "let's copy Privateer Press" route and make Santa Grimnar as rumored (epic casters), then I want royalties on eDraigo....
You're aware that GW was doing things like that long before Privateer Press had their whole "epic casters" thing, right?
TheKbob wrote: If GW is going to go down the "let's copy Privateer Press" route and make Santa Grimnar as rumored (epic casters), then I want royalties on eDraigo....
You're aware that GW was doing things like that long before Privateer Press had their whole "epic casters" thing, right?
TheKbob wrote: If GW is going to go down the "let's copy Privateer Press" route and make Santa Grimnar as rumored (epic casters), then I want royalties on eDraigo....
You're aware that GW was doing things like that long before Privateer Press had their whole "epic casters" thing, right?
They were?
Please expand, as many of the special characters are still 2nd Edition or their original sculpts, and I'm struggling to think of anyone who got given a pimped up ride in an update...
TheKbob wrote: If GW is going to go down the "let's copy Privateer Press" route and make Santa Grimnar as rumored (epic casters), then I want royalties on eDraigo....
You're aware that GW was doing things like that long before Privateer Press had their whole "epic casters" thing, right?
Really? When did they advance the story line and have a character "Go Epic?" This would be great news. Or do you mean shoe horning in some character "in the past". The Blood Angels captain comes to mind, but I wouldn't call that planned out intelligently.
Perception is reality. Even if they did it long ago, its the MO of Privateer Press now and nothing but the grognards and long beards will care to correct. PP has been putting out large base Casters for a bit now. If GW starts, it looks like copying to the lay crowd.
TheKbob wrote: If GW is going to go down the "let's copy Privateer Press" route and make Santa Grimnar as rumored (epic casters), then I want royalties on eDraigo....
You're aware that GW was doing things like that long before Privateer Press had their whole "epic casters" thing, right?
They were?
Please expand, as many of the special characters are still 2nd Edition or their original sculpts, and I'm struggling to think of anyone who got given a pimped up ride in an update...
I was meaning less of the "pimped out sculpts" and more the "alternate variants of the same character"...which were more in Fantasy than 40k. Things like Malekith having a unique chariot or characters like Karl Franz who in their profile had multiple mounts.
Jokes aside, going epic (or 3 in some cases) is a bit more involved than the model getting a horse or chariot. Its the narrative of the character advancing and its skill set and combat abilities changing to reflect them maturing.
It's not Karl on foot vs. Karl on a giant bird thing that likes to eat cannons.
Generally I'm a bit skeptical; While GK enjoyed a brief surge of popularity before 6th, afterwards that seemed to wane pretty fast.
And, as has allready been stated, I don't see GW doing a bigger release (like a codex) without models to accompany it. What I could see, would be a bloodangels style remake of the codex.
TheKbob wrote: Jokes aside, going epic (or 3 in some cases) is a bit more involved than the model getting a horse or chariot. Its the narrative of the character advancing and its skill set and combat abilities changing to reflect them maturing.
It's not Karl on foot vs. Karl on a giant bird thing that likes to eat cannons.
The one I can think of off the top of my head is Lysander. He started as a scout then a sergeant now captain, future chapter master ahoy!
That's fair. It seems like if GW is doing it, its retroactive changes. Unless they write a story that pushes the clock an iota forward and Lysander goes CM (but don't his stats already reflect that?).
Its not the crux of the mythos, though. Most of GW heroes are static cardboard cut out in terms of character growth. Or they just mysteriously disappeared...
Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote: Notice how in 5e the top codices were GK, Crons, SW, and BA, all written by him)
Actually Phil Kelly wrote Space Wolves 5E. And it's heaps better than Matt Ward's gak.
Ha! A comedian. Or should I say A wolf claw comedian riding a thunderwolf with a wolf talisman and Jaws of the world wolf?
I guess I should clarify that I like the good bits, of which Matt Ward's books have none. Wait... why should I have to clarify that, that should be fething obvious
I think since the dreadknight has the babby carrier which holds a guy in power armor, you should be able to disembark from it. That would be pretty cool.
The only reason I am even taking these rumors seriously is their track record. They are frankly the only non 'White Dwarf leak' source of rumors at the moment that is legit.
WrentheFaceless wrote: For as much flack as Matt Ward gets for his fluff, at least his codexes actually have good rules
I feel the same. I always hope he updates armies I play. His rules have stood the test of time (5th space marines, Necrons), his fluff is wonky and likes crazy names, but damn does he write good codexes.
They stopped making Blood for the Blood God, so maybe a limited edition release of that crossed out and say "Holy Armor Anointment Oil (Totally not Sisters Blood)?"
Yet another 40k release...I'm happy that all these armies are getting new stuff as I play 40k but fantasy just hasn't been getting any attention. Brettonians in late June...moved to early July...moved to middle august...moved to...never? Haha
Would be cool to have a grey knights and demons box set tho, just hope its not as limited as storm claw
chiefbigredman wrote: Yet another 40k release...I'm happy that all these armies are getting new stuff as I play 40k but fantasy just hasn't been getting any attention. Brettonians in late June...moved to early July...moved to middle august...moved to...never? Haha
Would be cool to have a grey knights and demons box set tho, just hope its not as limited as storm claw
With every month they Grey Knights of Fantasy get pushed back, the less worried I feel about having sold my army. I kept my metal characters and BSB because they are rare(ish) and awesome models, but the treatment the Brets are getting is making me sad. Then again, if GW pulls 9E out and it's amazing, I'll gladly reward them by buying Perry Minis for a new army!
I'd be psyked for the chance of new Inquisition rules and models (plastic Inquisitor and henchmen set, please?) but I know in my heart GW will cut out the Inquisition this time so they can sell the online mini dex and a new Assassins Codex.
It took them 10 years but yeah, I've abandoned all hope of being happy with a GW product.
Kid_Kyoto wrote: I'd be psyked for the chance of new Inquisition rules and models (plastic Inquisitor and henchmen set, please?) but I know in my heart GW will cut out the Inquisition this time so they can sell the online mini dex and a new Assassins Codex.
It took them 10 years but yeah, I've abandoned all hope of being happy with a GW product.
I feel like Inquisition models have always been the "you kitbash to make your own themed force of irregulars" style army. I had a good one growing, but it, too, gave up the ghost recently. I kept my custom Death Cult Assassins because I feel like I can still do something with them. Try making your own and enjoy it, I'd say.
Really? When did they advance the story line and have a character "Go Epic?" This would be great news. Or do you mean shoe horning in some character "in the past". The Blood Angels captain comes to mind, but I wouldn't call that planned out intelligently.
Perception is reality. Even if they did it long ago, its the MO of Privateer Press now and nothing but the grognards and long beards will care to correct. PP has been putting out large base Casters for a bit now. If GW starts, it looks like copying to the lay crowd.
It's been a while since they did it but I can think of a few. Ghazgull started out as a normal Ork Warboss (Andy Chamber's IIRC) became a special character, then doubled in size for 3rd edition.
Captain Tyco also went from generic to special to being a Death Company Dread.
Kid_Kyoto wrote: I'd be psyked for the chance of new Inquisition rules and models (plastic Inquisitor and henchmen set, please?) but I know in my heart GW will cut out the Inquisition this time so they can sell the online mini dex and a new Assassins Codex.
It took them 10 years but yeah, I've abandoned all hope of being happy with a GW product.
I feel like Inquisition models have always been the "you kitbash to make your own themed force of irregulars" style army. I had a good one growing, but it, too, gave up the ghost recently. I kept my custom Death Cult Assassins because I feel like I can still do something with them. Try making your own and enjoy it, I'd say.
Sir I have a few thousand points of =I= all converted and kit bashed, but I'd love more fodder to work with.
major codexes have not seen an update without new kits, ever.
GW is a model company, the rules are the second thought based on the models. They wont even look at updating a codex without brainstorming new models to make for it first, then make rules for them.
I expect GK will not be released next.
I also expect when GK become released all selections in their codex that do not have official models will be axed.
I Further expect Gk will receive two new vehicle kits. One will be a flyer that will take the fast attack slot, one will be an artillery type piece that can shunt once per game and be taken in units of 1-3. Despite being artillery it will mount Salvo like fire options so it can move and fire, or remain stationary and fire more.
I expect 1-2 characters will be axed and a new one will be put in.
I also have it on good information from the psychic friends network that Grey Knights will recieve the return of imperial jetbikes for their Fast Attack slot. There will be no option for characters to purchase one however.
Hulksmash wrote: Off the top of my head characters that have "advanced"
-Pedro Kantor
-Lysander
-Tycho
-Ghaz
Not sure if any of the IG ones that are now gone did. No aliens other than Orks did as far as I know. Chaos has always had the same big bads.
No other Ork has survived long enough to warrant advancement. Eldrad did have advancement (death) but was retconned, all the rest have been around for ages or just repeat over and over (Pheonix Lords, Avatar, Vect, most DE characters). All the IG guys would be dead or not-yet-born for most of the setting. Nids have no personality. Necrons have only just came into their own, so have Tau.
Space Marines could have advanced but between the last codex and the current one nothing much has changed. All of the characters are Chapter Masters, Captains, Head Chaplains or Chief Librarians. The ones who aren't (Vulkan, Chronos and Telion) will hold their role until death. Telion being the exception as he could be promoted to 10th Company Captain but then his role would change.
SW may change, Lukas won't. Njal is already "Chief Librarian." Ulrik is head of the Wolf Priests. Logan is Great Wolf. Ragner can't grow a beard and he can't progress in rank without killing off Logan. Bjorn...nuff said. Murderfang has just been added so...
BA Seth is already Master. Dante is already Master and he won't learn anything new at this point after 1100+ years. Sanguinor is an eternal spirit. Mephiston has potential to advance. As does Lemartes.
BT Helbretch is High Marshal. The only thing to do is kill Imotehk, which won't happen. Grimaldus is High Chaplain. Emperor's Champion changes all the time.
GK Mordrak, Draigo and Thwn are all new characters with potential for advancement. Stern can advance. Crowe maybe not. Valeria can. Coteaz and Karamazov not so much.
DA Azrael, Beliel, Sammael...all heads of Chapter and -Wing with not much potential for advancement.
Daemons
All eternal but with story advancement potential (feuds and rivalries with mortal groups)
CSM Abaddon has advanced (Black Crusade objectives), Kharn is pretty repetitive. Ahriman won't find the Black Library. Typhus won't spread the plague everywhere. Fabius just roams as a Mercenary doctor. Lucius is repetitive. Huron already commands the second largest renegade faction.
SM Lysander can become Chapter Master
Vulkan could find more relics.
Cassius could find a way to fight the Nids.
Tiguirius could get more power.
Sicarius could be promoted to 1st Captain with the death of Agemann(sp?). Or skip to CM if they killed off Calgar.
Breotan wrote: Grey Knights? Seriously? Where the hell are the damned Bretonnians? Son of a...
Maybe GW has changed from an alternating monthly release to an alternating editions release. All 40k 7th edition will arrive. 1 codex every month or so. Then next edition of fantasy will arrive, followed by an updated codex every month or so. Then after that... another new edition of 40k? Maybe after fantasy LoTR gets a little love?
I hope this rumor is not true as it would mean we would lose Mordrak. That would be a shame as his fluff and rules are among my favorite in the game. I would enjoy a new codex but if it means no new models I'd rather just wait
I wouldn't be surprised to see strikes lose deep strike and gain drop pods. It would move kits and make them better. That said they will get something new. Even if it's just a plastic tech marine with orbital relay or something. No way they don't get a few kits.
I see GKSS, Purifies, and Purgation squads costing 2 points less a model, just vanilla marines. Purifies may end up with even more of a points decrease considering that Cleansing Flame is now somewhat less reliable with the current psychic rules and the 2D6 limit.
Interceptors are hard to say, maybe as much as 4 points.
Termies will probably stay the same.
Paladins I have no idea,
Driago may get cheaper if his Titansword remains only AP3.
Sadly I'm confident Mordak and Thawn are gone unless they get a model for this release.
As for weapons:
Nemesis Swords will probably stay the same, though I would love it if they gave models with no ++ a 6++ now.
Hammers will stay the same.
Halberds will probably only give the Initiative boost on the charge only now. If they don't I expect a points increase.
I play GK, but they don't need an update the way BA and DE do -- and a no model release seems super weird.
Nevertheless, it makes sense based on the rumors of new demon sets and campaign boxes to bridge releases. Could easily see a big demon release, maybe a supplement and then GK.
It's disappointing to see an army get updated that doesn't really need it, but it is what it is.
Auswin wrote: I play GK, but they don't need an update the way BA and DE do -- and a no model release seems super weird.
Nevertheless, it makes sense based on the rumors of new demon sets and campaign boxes to bridge releases. Could easily see a big demon release, maybe a supplement and then GK.
It's disappointing to see an army get updated that doesn't really need it, but it is what it is.
Weren't GK a VERY popular release when they came out? In my local GW at least (former LA Battle Bunker) its seemed as though everyone bought at least a couple of them just to test out...
I dont actually see how this rumor could be true. After the ork codex it would make sense to update codices in order of oldest first. After space wolves, blood angels and dark eldar are the next oldest dexs, with grey knights being released over 6 months after DE, followed by necrons. Skipping 2 very popular books with loyal fanbases to update a codex that doesnt need it seems rediculous.
th3maninblak wrote: I dont actually see how this rumor could be true. After the ork codex it would make sense to update codices in order of oldest first. After space wolves, blood angels and dark eldar are the next oldest dexs, with grey knights being released over 6 months after DE, followed by necrons. Skipping 2 very popular books with loyal fanbases to update a codex that doesnt need it seems rediculous.
Who cares about the fan base. GW releases things you will buy because they say so.
The codexes haven't been in order and nothing shows that it will be in order.
I would say BA need the update more than GK, but it is hard to say DE need the update more than GK. DE are decent as are GK. But I will say GK have a lot of funky inconsistent point costs.
5 pts for a LRC psybolt but 20 pts for a Storm Raven psybolt. 25 pts for PsyCann for termies, 10 for GKSS, 20 for paladins, 10 for purifiers when the incinerator is 20 for GKSS but free for them.
There are just a lot of inconsistencies. Also GKGM are just not as potent as the SMGM as well as the orbital bombardment which is just 50 points of garbage for the GK. Also I can see the DK getting a point decrease or a wound increase to bring him more in line with other MC.
I think the psybolt ammo and special weapons costs were more in line with "how many can a unit field" and the potential impact of said unit on the battlefield. Although it is finnicky to have to go back to the book more often, I thought the approach worked. The dreadnought with psybolt and 2 twin-linked Autocannons, though... pure gold.
Mathieu Raymond wrote: I think the psybolt ammo and special weapons costs were more in line with "how many can a unit field" and the potential impact of said unit on the battlefield. Although it is finnicky to have to go back to the book more often, I thought the approach worked. The dreadnought with psybolt and 2 twin-linked Autocannons, though... pure gold.
You say that but I just don't see that sort of logic put into this codex.
A 10 man GKSS can have two incinerators at +40 or 10 man GK purifiers squad can have 4 at +0.
But psycannons cost the same when one can have two and the other can have four...?
Then paladins can have more of anything, and all of their weapons are just cheaper then all of the terminators minus incinerators.
Speaking of incinerators. Why are termie incins 5 pts when a GKSS is 20? THey both get 1 per 5 and both are troops. A PAGKSS guy with incin is 40 pts. A TAGK Termie guy with incin is 45 pts.....
5 pts for a LRC psybolt but 20 pts for a Storm Raven psybolt. 25 pts for PsyCann for termies, 10 for GKSS, 20 for paladins, 10 for purifiers when the incinerator is 20 for GKSS but free for them.
In 5th Ed, when GK was written, Psybolt was a bad thing on LRC because it made their sponson Hurricane Bolters a non-Defensive weapon. Normally it could be armed with a Stormbolter and Multimelta, and move 6" a turn and fire all its weaponry. With Psybolt it could only move 6" and fire any 1 weapon. Stormravens could be armed with Heavy Bolters, Assault Cannon and Hurricane bolters, and being a Fast vehicle with PoTMS, move 6" and fire everything. Or move 12" and fire 2 weapons.
The points are also consistant with fluff.
For example, for SS, objective holders and line troops, the versatile Psycannon was most expensive, being that it could fire on the move (when you moved towards an objective) or stay still and become more effective (when camping). Whereas Psilincer could only stay still but was better for objective camping, and Incinerator was short ranged (and Overwatch was no yet a thing).
Purifiers are elite guys and very Flamer orientated so get Incinerators for free, and the Psiliencers are highly anti-Daemon (Purifier's MO above all others). Psycannons again most expensive but eliteness makes them cheaper.
Interceptors get Psiliencers for free because it was not able to be used in conjunction with their benefit over Strike Squads; mobility. Psycannons lay in the mid ground of being usable on the move but most useful stationary. And Incinerators were "the best" for them because they suffered no penalty for moving.
Terminators get Incinerators cheapest, below Psiliencers, because Psilincers on a Terminator are relentless. Psycannons also benefit but are vastly more powerful.
Paladins are more elite and so are entrusted with more heavy weapons (so can take twice as many) and their hefty points cost and eliteness gives them a discount of 5 points.
GK Captains have a higher BS so take the Psilincer and Psycannon at even higher points that a Termy or Paladin, but the Incinerator is only 5pts or so because it isn't effected by the BS5.
GKGM has BS6 and so pays an additional 5 points more that the Captain for Psilincers and Psycannons (as much as a Rhino and Razorback respectively!) But the Incinerator stays the same.
Purgators gain benefits from all 3 weapons as the Devastator Squad and so is priced in order of fluff. Incinerator is short ranged when they perform fire support. Psilincer is static when they need to advance. Psycannon gives the best of both worlds.
5 pts for a LRC psybolt but 20 pts for a Storm Raven psybolt. 25 pts for PsyCann for termies, 10 for GKSS, 20 for paladins, 10 for purifiers when the incinerator is 20 for GKSS but free for them.
In 5th Ed, when GK was written, Psybolt was a bad thing on LRC because it made their sponson Hurricane Bolters a non-Defensive weapon. Normally it could be armed with a Stormbolter and Multimelta, and move 6" a turn and fire all its weaponry. With Psybolt it could only move 6" and fire any 1 weapon. Stormravens could be armed with Heavy Bolters, Assault Cannon and Hurricane bolters, and being a Fast vehicle with PoTMS, move 6" and fire everything. Or move 12" and fire 2 weapons.
The points are also consistant with fluff.
For example, for SS, objective holders and line troops, the versatile Psycannon was most expensive, being that it could fire on the move (when you moved towards an objective) or stay still and become more effective (when camping). Whereas Psilincer could only stay still but was better for objective camping, and Incinerator was short ranged (and Overwatch was no yet a thing).
Purifiers are elite guys and very Flamer orientated so get Incinerators for free, and the Psiliencers are highly anti-Daemon (Purifier's MO above all others). Psycannons again most expensive but eliteness makes them cheaper.
Interceptors get Psiliencers for free because it was not able to be used in conjunction with their benefit over Strike Squads; mobility. Psycannons lay in the mid ground of being usable on the move but most useful stationary. And Incinerators were "the best" for them because they suffered no penalty for moving.
Terminators get Incinerators cheapest, below Psiliencers, because Psilincers on a Terminator are relentless. Psycannons also benefit but are vastly more powerful.
Paladins are more elite and so are entrusted with more heavy weapons (so can take twice as many) and their hefty points cost and eliteness gives them a discount of 5 points.
GK Captains have a higher BS so take the Psilincer and Psycannon at even higher points that a Termy or Paladin, but the Incinerator is only 5pts or so because it isn't effected by the BS5.
GKGM has BS6 and so pays an additional 5 points more that the Captain for Psilincers and Psycannons (as much as a Rhino and Razorback respectively!) But the Incinerator stays the same.
Purgators gain benefits from all 3 weapons as the Devastator Squad and so is priced in order of fluff. Incinerator is short ranged when they perform fire support. Psilincer is static when they need to advance. Psycannon gives the best of both worlds.
A lot of inconsistencies when compared to the SM codex where plasmas are just 15 regardless if its a veteran, tactical or command sqaud.
5 pts for a LRC psybolt but 20 pts for a Storm Raven psybolt. 25 pts for PsyCann for termies, 10 for GKSS, 20 for paladins, 10 for purifiers when the incinerator is 20 for GKSS but free for them.
In 5th Ed, when GK was written, Psybolt was a bad thing on LRC because it made their sponson Hurricane Bolters a non-Defensive weapon. Normally it could be armed with a Stormbolter and Multimelta, and move 6" a turn and fire all its weaponry. With Psybolt it could only move 6" and fire any 1 weapon. Stormravens could be armed with Heavy Bolters, Assault Cannon and Hurricane bolters, and being a Fast vehicle with PoTMS, move 6" and fire everything. Or move 12" and fire 2 weapons.
The points are also consistant with fluff.
For example, for SS, objective holders and line troops, the versatile Psycannon was most expensive, being that it could fire on the move (when you moved towards an objective) or stay still and become more effective (when camping). Whereas Psilincer could only stay still but was better for objective camping, and Incinerator was short ranged (and Overwatch was no yet a thing).
Purifiers are elite guys and very Flamer orientated so get Incinerators for free, and the Psiliencers are highly anti-Daemon (Purifier's MO above all others). Psycannons again most expensive but eliteness makes them cheaper.
Interceptors get Psiliencers for free because it was not able to be used in conjunction with their benefit over Strike Squads; mobility. Psycannons lay in the mid ground of being usable on the move but most useful stationary. And Incinerators were "the best" for them because they suffered no penalty for moving.
Terminators get Incinerators cheapest, below Psiliencers, because Psilincers on a Terminator are relentless. Psycannons also benefit but are vastly more powerful.
Paladins are more elite and so are entrusted with more heavy weapons (so can take twice as many) and their hefty points cost and eliteness gives them a discount of 5 points.
GK Captains have a higher BS so take the Psilincer and Psycannon at even higher points that a Termy or Paladin, but the Incinerator is only 5pts or so because it isn't effected by the BS5.
GKGM has BS6 and so pays an additional 5 points more that the Captain for Psilincers and Psycannons (as much as a Rhino and Razorback respectively!) But the Incinerator stays the same.
Purgators gain benefits from all 3 weapons as the Devastator Squad and so is priced in order of fluff. Incinerator is short ranged when they perform fire support. Psilincer is static when they need to advance. Psycannon gives the best of both worlds.
A lot of inconsistencies when compared to the SM codex where plasmas are just 15 regardless if its a veteran, tactical or command sqaud.
Because every one of them, Veteran, Tactical or Command Squad (veteran) is going to fire at BS4, Str7 and AP2 with Gets Hot! They all perform the same job no matter what model its taken on.
Strike Squads get a much larger benefit from Psycannons vs the other 2. Interceptors get a better deal from the Incinerator. Purgators get the best deal with Psycannons. Terminators and Paladins get an awesome deal due to relentless, but the Incinerator isn't affected. Captains have relentless AND BS5. So more expensive. Grand Masters have BS6 and get to reroll to hit (needing 6s) so cost even more.
Its honestly a very consistent pricing. If something gets a bigger benefit towards it intended role, it becomes more expensive. Hence why Psilincers are free on Interceptors who are designed to be mobile, but expensive on Purgators who are designed to be static.
5 pts for a LRC psybolt but 20 pts for a Storm Raven psybolt. 25 pts for PsyCann for termies, 10 for GKSS, 20 for paladins, 10 for purifiers when the incinerator is 20 for GKSS but free for them.
In 5th Ed, when GK was written, Psybolt was a bad thing on LRC because it made their sponson Hurricane Bolters a non-Defensive weapon. Normally it could be armed with a Stormbolter and Multimelta, and move 6" a turn and fire all its weaponry. With Psybolt it could only move 6" and fire any 1 weapon. Stormravens could be armed with Heavy Bolters, Assault Cannon and Hurricane bolters, and being a Fast vehicle with PoTMS, move 6" and fire everything. Or move 12" and fire 2 weapons.
The points are also consistant with fluff.
For example, for SS, objective holders and line troops, the versatile Psycannon was most expensive, being that it could fire on the move (when you moved towards an objective) or stay still and become more effective (when camping). Whereas Psilincer could only stay still but was better for objective camping, and Incinerator was short ranged (and Overwatch was no yet a thing).
Purifiers are elite guys and very Flamer orientated so get Incinerators for free, and the Psiliencers are highly anti-Daemon (Purifier's MO above all others). Psycannons again most expensive but eliteness makes them cheaper.
Interceptors get Psiliencers for free because it was not able to be used in conjunction with their benefit over Strike Squads; mobility. Psycannons lay in the mid ground of being usable on the move but most useful stationary. And Incinerators were "the best" for them because they suffered no penalty for moving.
Terminators get Incinerators cheapest, below Psiliencers, because Psilincers on a Terminator are relentless. Psycannons also benefit but are vastly more powerful.
Paladins are more elite and so are entrusted with more heavy weapons (so can take twice as many) and their hefty points cost and eliteness gives them a discount of 5 points.
GK Captains have a higher BS so take the Psilincer and Psycannon at even higher points that a Termy or Paladin, but the Incinerator is only 5pts or so because it isn't effected by the BS5.
GKGM has BS6 and so pays an additional 5 points more that the Captain for Psilincers and Psycannons (as much as a Rhino and Razorback respectively!) But the Incinerator stays the same.
Purgators gain benefits from all 3 weapons as the Devastator Squad and so is priced in order of fluff. Incinerator is short ranged when they perform fire support. Psilincer is static when they need to advance. Psycannon gives the best of both worlds.
A lot of inconsistencies when compared to the SM codex where plasmas are just 15 regardless if its a veteran, tactical or command sqaud.
Because every one of them, Veteran, Tactical or Command Squad (veteran) is going to fire at BS4, Str7 and AP2 with Gets Hot! They all perform the same job no matter what model its taken on.
Strike Squads get a much larger benefit from Psycannons vs the other 2. Interceptors get a better deal from the Incinerator. Purgators get the best deal with Psycannons. Terminators and Paladins get an awesome deal due to relentless, but the Incinerator isn't affected. Captains have relentless AND BS5. So more expensive. Grand Masters have BS6 and get to reroll to hit (needing 6s) so cost even more.
Its honestly a very consistent pricing. If something gets a bigger benefit towards it intended role, it becomes more expensive. Hence why Psilincers are free on Interceptors who are designed to be mobile, but expensive on Purgators who are designed to be static.
And the command squad who gets bikes and becomes relentless who pays the same price for grav guns or plasma guns doesn't get an added benefit of charging with rapid fire or never shooting at salvo range as opposed to the veterans or tactical squad on foot. Also normal bikers guns are the same price as tact squad including plasma and grav.
5 pts for a LRC psybolt but 20 pts for a Storm Raven psybolt. 25 pts for PsyCann for termies, 10 for GKSS, 20 for paladins, 10 for purifiers when the incinerator is 20 for GKSS but free for them.
In 5th Ed, when GK was written, Psybolt was a bad thing on LRC because it made their sponson Hurricane Bolters a non-Defensive weapon. Normally it could be armed with a Stormbolter and Multimelta, and move 6" a turn and fire all its weaponry. With Psybolt it could only move 6" and fire any 1 weapon. Stormravens could be armed with Heavy Bolters, Assault Cannon and Hurricane bolters, and being a Fast vehicle with PoTMS, move 6" and fire everything. Or move 12" and fire 2 weapons.
The points are also consistant with fluff.
For example, for SS, objective holders and line troops, the versatile Psycannon was most expensive, being that it could fire on the move (when you moved towards an objective) or stay still and become more effective (when camping). Whereas Psilincer could only stay still but was better for objective camping, and Incinerator was short ranged (and Overwatch was no yet a thing).
Purifiers are elite guys and very Flamer orientated so get Incinerators for free, and the Psiliencers are highly anti-Daemon (Purifier's MO above all others). Psycannons again most expensive but eliteness makes them cheaper.
Interceptors get Psiliencers for free because it was not able to be used in conjunction with their benefit over Strike Squads; mobility. Psycannons lay in the mid ground of being usable on the move but most useful stationary. And Incinerators were "the best" for them because they suffered no penalty for moving.
Terminators get Incinerators cheapest, below Psiliencers, because Psilincers on a Terminator are relentless. Psycannons also benefit but are vastly more powerful.
Paladins are more elite and so are entrusted with more heavy weapons (so can take twice as many) and their hefty points cost and eliteness gives them a discount of 5 points.
GK Captains have a higher BS so take the Psilincer and Psycannon at even higher points that a Termy or Paladin, but the Incinerator is only 5pts or so because it isn't effected by the BS5.
GKGM has BS6 and so pays an additional 5 points more that the Captain for Psilincers and Psycannons (as much as a Rhino and Razorback respectively!) But the Incinerator stays the same.
Purgators gain benefits from all 3 weapons as the Devastator Squad and so is priced in order of fluff. Incinerator is short ranged when they perform fire support. Psilincer is static when they need to advance. Psycannon gives the best of both worlds.
A lot of inconsistencies when compared to the SM codex where plasmas are just 15 regardless if its a veteran, tactical or command sqaud.
Because every one of them, Veteran, Tactical or Command Squad (veteran) is going to fire at BS4, Str7 and AP2 with Gets Hot! They all perform the same job no matter what model its taken on.
Strike Squads get a much larger benefit from Psycannons vs the other 2. Interceptors get a better deal from the Incinerator. Purgators get the best deal with Psycannons. Terminators and Paladins get an awesome deal due to relentless, but the Incinerator isn't affected. Captains have relentless AND BS5. So more expensive. Grand Masters have BS6 and get to reroll to hit (needing 6s) so cost even more.
Its honestly a very consistent pricing. If something gets a bigger benefit towards it intended role, it becomes more expensive. Hence why Psilincers are free on Interceptors who are designed to be mobile, but expensive on Purgators who are designed to be static.
And the command squad who gets bikes and becomes relentless who pays the same price for grav guns or plasma guns doesn't get an added benefit of charging with rapid fire or never shooting at salvo range as opposed to the veterans or tactical squad on foot. Also normal bikers guns are the same price as tact squad including plasma and grav.
Except that the benefits of bikes is included in the base price or upgrade price. Not only that, but bikes can't score, nor can Command Squads. At least when the book was written.
exploited751 wrote: You can say the same with paying the premium for terminator armor or the premium of purifiers etc...
You can, but then you leave out the fact that each squad has an intended roll and is affected differently by each weapon. Tacticals, Veterans and Command squads are all affected the same.
exploited751 wrote: You can say the same with paying the premium for terminator armor or the premium of purifiers etc...
You can, but then you leave out the fact that each squad has an intended roll and is affected differently by each weapon. Tacticals, Veterans and Command squads are all affected the same.
exploited751 wrote: You can say the same with paying the premium for terminator armor or the premium of purifiers etc...
You can, but then you leave out the fact that each squad has an intended roll and is affected differently by each weapon. Tacticals, Veterans and Command squads are all affected the same.
I'm with Deadshot on this one, he summed it up perfectly. The roles and extra powers each had originally justified the price of the upgrades. They also influenced your choices towards the fluffiness of the unit.
No, it should be paid for in the model for what it's currently equipped with. Otherwise you're paying more for a model you don't upgrade to take say a psycannon with. GK codex was done right partially because they adjusted based on the squad load out options and abilities. Only wolves had really done that previously.
Smotejob wrote: The increased ballistic skill is IMO paid for in the model. The price for the weapon should be the same regardless.
It is. If Captains were only BS4 they'd be cheaper. The weapons are more expensive because they have a much larger potential for damage with BS5 vs BS4. And an even larger one with BS6 hen ce the additional 5pts vs the Captain.
I don't like how GKs play now;it's too much bookkeeping to keep track of psychic powers, power dice, etc. Played a game vs a friend playing Daemons and the game drug on so long I just finally said, "Yeah, you win, I'm going to go home."
I don't like how GKs play now;it's too much bookkeeping to keep track of psychic powers, power dice, etc. Played a game vs a friend playing Daemons and the game drug on so long I just finally said, "Yeah, you win, I'm going to go home."
If you dont like psychic powers, you're probably playing the wrong army for it
I don't like how GKs play now;it's too much bookkeeping to keep track of psychic powers, power dice, etc. Played a game vs a friend playing Daemons and the game drug on so long I just finally said, "Yeah, you win, I'm going to go home."
If you dont like psychic powers, you're probably playing the wrong army for it
Can't blame a guy for that. GK have changed enormously in the 4 years they've beem around. When they first came out everything worked perfectly for them. Everyone had their own powers, it told you when to use them and the effect on the relevant page. Perils was simple. Roll a or and the squad leader took a wound with no armour, but a forced reroll on an invulnerable save if they have it. Or if there was no leader, a random, non-IC.
Enter 6th ed. Some things changed but mostly stayed the same. The only difference was Librarians really and DTW. The changes to Psychic wasn't a major blow like it was to other MEQ armies becaude GK had the Aegis, and Dreadnoughts (Psyflemen in particular) were prevelant still, and increased things from a -1Ld to -4Ld for enemy psykers. Plus, everyone being psykers meant a guarenteed 5+ DTW minimum. Librarians could still take their own powers but could also get Divination for Prescience. A Purgation Squad using their power to shoot around corners out of line of sight, combined with Prescience and 4 Psycannons, was murder on paper. If you got Perfect Timing you could even negate the automatic 4+ cover save.
Now come 7th ed. No one keeps their powers. Everyone rolls for it. Who has what power, how many Warp Charge do I get this turn, what effect of perils, how does Aegis work?
You're right. I played it wrong. For some reason when I glanced through the FAQ, my eyes locked on the bold "Daemonology (Sanctic)" and I missed the two powers listed for strike squads et al.
I still don't like the warp charge generation and the psychic phase does slow things down.
OT Do you all really think they'll remove Inquisition from the codex? It'd make for a very bland codex unless they add something in to replace them.
I think the new psychic phase has streamlined the psychic portions of my game. A daemons summon list is pretty tedious, but otherwise the psychic phase goes quickly. I rarely cast more than four or five powers a turn even with our sizeable psychic pool. They are much less reliable now though and I miss the old powers we lost. Does everyone feel we will get additional powers in the codex or will we just keep the ones in the brb? It makes me doubt this rumor even more, why would we get a new codex and just some objective cards especially if our psychic powers are not expanded? It seems our army would not change much save the loss of models (presuming inquisition and assassins get yanked), a couple point changes, and draigo being a lord of war - so what would be the point? I really hope this is a bogus rumor
You're right. I played it wrong. For some reason when I glanced through the FAQ, my eyes locked on the bold "Daemonology (Sanctic)" and I missed the two powers listed for strike squads et al.
I still don't like the warp charge generation and the psychic phase does slow things down.
OT Do you all really think they'll remove Inquisition from the codex? It'd make for a very bland codex unless they add something in to replace them.
If they do, i expect them to add in the rest of the genric space marine equipment/vehicles to make up for it. But 'psy'd' out.
We need a new codex... not because of rule change... but a need of an official codex release... nowadays GK players are playing with a FAQ... common... its... just.... stupid...
pizzaguardian wrote: Also where would the assasins go? They already surprised me by not putting them in inq, i would be more surprised if all of them would be removed.
Away? Or into a supplement?
There's plenty of places for them to go--and it's would not be surprising if they decided to just get rid of them given how old the models are.
pizzaguardian wrote: Also where would the assasins go? They already surprised me by not putting them in inq, i would be more surprised if all of them would be removed.
Away? Or into a supplement?
There's plenty of places for them to go--and it's would not be surprising if they decided to just get rid of them given how old the models are.
But the models exist and are still for sale, right? I'd be surprised if they DIDN'T get moved out of C:GK and into their own Black Library DLC at this point, though.
If I could wishlist, it would be for cheaper long-range guns. Special psycanons for the heavy support guys with longer range....that'd make them somewhat useful.
You're right. I played it wrong. For some reason when I glanced through the FAQ, my eyes locked on the bold "Daemonology (Sanctic)" and I missed the two powers listed for strike squads et al.
I still don't like the warp charge generation and the psychic phase does slow things down.
OT Do you all really think they'll remove Inquisition from the codex? It'd make for a very bland codex unless they add something in to replace them.
If they do, i expect them to add in the rest of the genric space marine equipment/vehicles to make up for it. But 'psy'd' out.
I don't like this either. I want Grey knights to keep a pretty unique flavor about the army and not just open the entire space marine armory to them.
You're right. I played it wrong. For some reason when I glanced through the FAQ, my eyes locked on the bold "Daemonology (Sanctic)" and I missed the two powers listed for strike squads et al.
I still don't like the warp charge generation and the psychic phase does slow things down.
OT Do you all really think they'll remove Inquisition from the codex? It'd make for a very bland codex unless they add something in to replace them.
If they do, i expect them to add in the rest of the genric space marine equipment/vehicles to make up for it. But 'psy'd' out.
I don't like this either. I want Grey knights to keep a pretty unique flavor about the army and not just open the entire space marine armory to them.
Considering their fluff and having the best of everything, it seemed kindof weird they didnt have it already to me.
You're right. I played it wrong. For some reason when I glanced through the FAQ, my eyes locked on the bold "Daemonology (Sanctic)" and I missed the two powers listed for strike squads et al.
I still don't like the warp charge generation and the psychic phase does slow things down.
OT Do you all really think they'll remove Inquisition from the codex? It'd make for a very bland codex unless they add something in to replace them.
If they do, i expect them to add in the rest of the genric space marine equipment/vehicles to make up for it. But 'psy'd' out.
I don't like this either. I want Grey knights to keep a pretty unique flavor about the army and not just open the entire space marine armory to them.
Considering their fluff and having the best of everything, it seemed kindof weird they didnt have it already to me.
Cuz they didn't need it. Predators are not great for hunting Daemons, as they tend to get up close, where you use Nemesis Force Weapons to kill them and banish them. Dreadnoughts provide fire support. Vindicators are for Sieges, which GK don't do. Whirlwinds are for sieges too, firing up and over things. GK just teleport into the midst of things or stand within sight of the rift. Hunters and Stalkers are only useful vs FMC Daemons, which Stormravens shoot down and Dreadknights finish off. Plus, all those tanks are hard to deploy. Bikes and Land Speeders are most often used for recon, which GK don't do. Centurions are new, and siege focused. Drop Pods can be intercepted, teleportation is safer (for GK). GK weapons are superior for killing Daemons to melta/plasma and they have a better version of heavy flamers availible to standard guys.
I think they should have some things like drop pod. They use drop pods in the fluff, why shouldn't they use them otherwise to reliably expedite their attack on demons.
Justicar... err... brother captain... errr... Alaric uses them quite a bit.
i agree with the other vehicles. We shouldn't have them and should get our own unique units as they are not good agains't demons. I think centurions would be good against demons though.
Smotejob wrote: I think they should have some things like drop pod. They use drop pods in the fluff, why shouldn't they use them otherwise to reliably expedite their attack on demons.
Justicar... err... brother captain... errr... Alaric uses them quite a bit.
i agree with the other vehicles. We shouldn't have them and should get our own unique units as they are not good agains't demons. I think centurions would be good against demons though.
Because they don't need Drop Pods? They can teleport, even when in PA. Its more reliable for them, as it doesn't get shot out of the sky, they don't need lifting crew to retrieve the pods, so they can teleport away before being seen by Imperial reinforcements. And if they can't teleport, they use a Stormraven, which can also take a Dreadnought as well as the 12 guys inside. It can also shoot back and act as a gunship afterwards and them fly back to the Cruiser.
Centurions might work if they were equipped with GK tech. Paired doomfists and Incinerators for Assault, paired Psilincers, Psycannons or Grav-Cannon with Amp for Purgator. With chest mounted Rad-Launchers and Hurricane Bolters respectively, with upgrade options to Hurricane Bolter and Missile Launcher.
Smotejob wrote: I think they should have some things like drop pod. They use drop pods in the fluff, why shouldn't they use them otherwise to reliably expedite their attack on demons.
Justicar... err... brother captain... errr... Alaric uses them quite a bit.
i agree with the other vehicles. We shouldn't have them and should get our own unique units as they are not good agains't demons. I think centurions would be good against demons though.
Because they don't need Drop Pods? They can teleport, even when in PA. Its more reliable for them, as it doesn't get shot out of the sky, they don't need lifting crew to retrieve the pods, so they can teleport away before being seen by Imperial reinforcements. And if they can't teleport, they use a Stormraven, which can also take a Dreadnought as well as the 12 guys inside. It can also shoot back and act as a gunship afterwards and them fly back to the Cruiser.
Centurions might work if they were equipped with GK tech. Paired doomfists and Incinerators for Assault, paired Psilincers, Psycannons or Grav-Cannon with Amp for Purgator. With chest mounted Rad-Launchers and Hurricane Bolters respectively, with upgrade options to Hurricane Bolter and Missile Launcher.
Not all of them. yes interceptors and gkss have those capes but sometimes a stormraven is just too slow and having elite or heavy choices in a drop pod would be very nice and match the fluff. Would it break them? i don't think so. it would be a more reliable transport to where we want to get than our trusty rhino. Rhino is great don't get me wrong but it would be nice to have access to that tech. =)
Smotejob wrote: I think they should have some things like drop pod. They use drop pods in the fluff, why shouldn't they use them otherwise to reliably expedite their attack on demons.
Justicar... err... brother captain... errr... Alaric uses them quite a bit.
i agree with the other vehicles. We shouldn't have them and should get our own unique units as they are not good agains't demons. I think centurions would be good against demons though.
Because they don't need Drop Pods? They can teleport, even when in PA. Its more reliable for them, as it doesn't get shot out of the sky, they don't need lifting crew to retrieve the pods, so they can teleport away before being seen by Imperial reinforcements. And if they can't teleport, they use a Stormraven, which can also take a Dreadnought as well as the 12 guys inside. It can also shoot back and act as a gunship afterwards and them fly back to the Cruiser.
Centurions might work if they were equipped with GK tech. Paired doomfists and Incinerators for Assault, paired Psilincers, Psycannons or Grav-Cannon with Amp for Purgator. With chest mounted Rad-Launchers and Hurricane Bolters respectively, with upgrade options to Hurricane Bolter and Missile Launcher.
Fluff wise, yes they can teleport and they prefer .
Actual mechanics wise, Deep Strike is terrible, if I'm going to reserve, Id rather have a more reliable Drop Pod
Smotejob wrote: I think they should have some things like drop pod. They use drop pods in the fluff, why shouldn't they use them otherwise to reliably expedite their attack on demons.
Justicar... err... brother captain... errr... Alaric uses them quite a bit.
i agree with the other vehicles. We shouldn't have them and should get our own unique units as they are not good agains't demons. I think centurions would be good against demons though.
Because they don't need Drop Pods? They can teleport, even when in PA. Its more reliable for them, as it doesn't get shot out of the sky, they don't need lifting crew to retrieve the pods, so they can teleport away before being seen by Imperial reinforcements. And if they can't teleport, they use a Stormraven, which can also take a Dreadnought as well as the 12 guys inside. It can also shoot back and act as a gunship afterwards and them fly back to the Cruiser.
Centurions might work if they were equipped with GK tech. Paired doomfists and Incinerators for Assault, paired Psilincers, Psycannons or Grav-Cannon with Amp for Purgator. With chest mounted Rad-Launchers and Hurricane Bolters respectively, with upgrade options to Hurricane Bolter and Missile Launcher.
Not all of them. yes interceptors and gkss have those capes but sometimes a stormraven is just too slow and having elite or heavy choices in a drop pod would be very nice and match the fluff. Would it break them? i don't think so. it would be a more reliable transport to where we want to get than our trusty rhino. Rhino is great don't get me wrong but it would be nice to have access to that tech. =)
Yes, all of them can, in fluff at least, teleport in. The only GK squads that can't are Purifiers and Purgators for balance purposes. Purgators are GK just like the SS and Interceptors and Purifiers are even more Daemonproof than the rest.
Dreadnoughts get dropped in by stormraven if needed, but I would assume a Warp Stabilization field would allow them to be teleported in too.
Smotejob wrote: I think they should have some things like drop pod. They use drop pods in the fluff, why shouldn't they use them otherwise to reliably expedite their attack on demons.
Justicar... err... brother captain... errr... Alaric uses them quite a bit.
i agree with the other vehicles. We shouldn't have them and should get our own unique units as they are not good agains't demons. I think centurions would be good against demons though.
Because they don't need Drop Pods? They can teleport, even when in PA. Its more reliable for them, as it doesn't get shot out of the sky, they don't need lifting crew to retrieve the pods, so they can teleport away before being seen by Imperial reinforcements. And if they can't teleport, they use a Stormraven, which can also take a Dreadnought as well as the 12 guys inside. It can also shoot back and act as a gunship afterwards and them fly back to the Cruiser.
Centurions might work if they were equipped with GK tech. Paired doomfists and Incinerators for Assault, paired Psilincers, Psycannons or Grav-Cannon with Amp for Purgator. With chest mounted Rad-Launchers and Hurricane Bolters respectively, with upgrade options to Hurricane Bolter and Missile Launcher.
Fluff wise, yes they can teleport and they prefer .
Actual mechanics wise, Deep Strike is terrible, if I'm going to reserve, Id rather have a more reliable Drop Pod
I like the Centurion ideas though.
Agreed, but fluff says they don't so that's my view.
Purifier or Paladin orders (led by Crowe and Draigo respectively). Either that or certain Brotherhoods, either Stern's, Mordrak's or Thawn's. They might even put Stern/Mordrak and Thawn in the same brotherhood.
Smotejob wrote: I think they should have some things like drop pod. They use drop pods in the fluff, why shouldn't they use them otherwise to reliably expedite their attack on demons.
Justicar... err... brother captain... errr... Alaric uses them quite a bit.
i agree with the other vehicles. We shouldn't have them and should get our own unique units as they are not good agains't demons. I think centurions would be good against demons though.
Because they don't need Drop Pods? They can teleport, even when in PA. Its more reliable for them, as it doesn't get shot out of the sky, they don't need lifting crew to retrieve the pods, so they can teleport away before being seen by Imperial reinforcements. And if they can't teleport, they use a Stormraven, which can also take a Dreadnought as well as the 12 guys inside. It can also shoot back and act as a gunship afterwards and them fly back to the Cruiser.
Centurions might work if they were equipped with GK tech. Paired doomfists and Incinerators for Assault, paired Psilincers, Psycannons or Grav-Cannon with Amp for Purgator. With chest mounted Rad-Launchers and Hurricane Bolters respectively, with upgrade options to Hurricane Bolter and Missile Launcher.
Fluff wise, yes they can teleport and they prefer .
Actual mechanics wise, Deep Strike is terrible, if I'm going to reserve, Id rather have a more reliable Drop Pod
I like the Centurion ideas though.
Its not if you spend just 20 or so points on 4 Servo skulls. You can then DS within 12 inches of them and only scatter D6, among other benefits.
Its not if you spend just 20 or so points on 4 Servo skulls. You can then DS within 12 inches of them and only scatter D6, among other benefits.
Or do the same with turn 1 drop pods landing right where you want them rather than hoping the servo skulls last at least a turn or 2 before your reserves come in. I'd gladly give up deepstrike and points for drop pods. Protection (cover,) and 6 inch deployment to avoid standing in a nice blast marker shaped formation on arrival? yes please..
Its not if you spend just 20 or so points on 4 Servo skulls. You can then DS within 12 inches of them and only scatter D6, among other benefits.
Or do the same with turn 1 drop pods landing right where you want them rather than hoping the servo skulls last at least a turn or 2 before your reserves come in. I'd gladly give up deepstrike and points for drop pods. Protection (cover,) and 6 inch deployment to avoid standing in a nice blast marker shaped formation on arrival? yes please..
Except it goes against fluff which is why it shouldn't be there. Just be content with deep striking and Terminator troops, bucketfuls of Warp Charge dice, AP 3 on everybody, Dreadknights with 5 Str 10 AP 2 attacks and rerollable everything in melee with a Jump pack, a 30" move once per game, better versions of Rifleman dreads, or you know, just deploy normally and use your Grand Master to give stuff scout? Then you can sit in cover and shoot out?
Its not if you spend just 20 or so points on 4 Servo skulls. You can then DS within 12 inches of them and only scatter D6, among other benefits.
Or do the same with turn 1 drop pods landing right where you want them rather than hoping the servo skulls last at least a turn or 2 before your reserves come in. I'd gladly give up deepstrike and points for drop pods. Protection (cover,) and 6 inch deployment to avoid standing in a nice blast marker shaped formation on arrival? yes please..
Except it goes against fluff which is why it shouldn't be there.
Bullgak. They use Drop Pods several times in the GK omnibus, for example.
Its not if you spend just 20 or so points on 4 Servo skulls. You can then DS within 12 inches of them and only scatter D6, among other benefits.
Or do the same with turn 1 drop pods landing right where you want them rather than hoping the servo skulls last at least a turn or 2 before your reserves come in. I'd gladly give up deepstrike and points for drop pods. Protection (cover,) and 6 inch deployment to avoid standing in a nice blast marker shaped formation on arrival? yes please..
Except it goes against fluff which is why it shouldn't be there.
Bullgak. They use Drop Pods several times in the GK omnibus, for example.
And?
In the GK omnibus there is also a Daemon infested Forge World that gains sentience.
Its not if you spend just 20 or so points on 4 Servo skulls. You can then DS within 12 inches of them and only scatter D6, among other benefits.
Or do the same with turn 1 drop pods landing right where you want them rather than hoping the servo skulls last at least a turn or 2 before your reserves come in. I'd gladly give up deepstrike and points for drop pods. Protection (cover,) and 6 inch deployment to avoid standing in a nice blast marker shaped formation on arrival? yes please..
Except it goes against fluff which is why it shouldn't be there.
Bullgak. They use Drop Pods several times in the GK omnibus, for example.
Isn't the GK codex newer? Where they use the much more reliable teleportation method (reliable for them), or the heavily armed Stormraven or Thunderhawk.
Also, as I've previously stated, Drop Pods require retrieval by heavy lifting ship, and so are a hassle to clear up. GK want to get out before any Imperials arrive and they have to kill or mindwipe them. Gunships can ferry things back up to the strike cruiser like Land Raiders and Rhinos and Stormravens take Dreadnoughts, while everything else teleports up. Takes maybe an hour to get away, as opposed to several to get the bulk carriers to retrieve the pods.
We're starting to get into a discussion of mechanics vs fluff. While it is fluffy that GKs deepstrike using teleporters, I would say that drop pod deepstriking is generally superior mechanically in most ways. Guaranteed some turn 1 deepstriking, less threat to the units inside to mishap, and no risk of everyone ending their turn in a tight clump therefore being blast fodder.
chnmmr wrote: We're starting to get into a discussion of mechanics vs fluff. While it is fluffy that GKs deepstrike using teleporters, I would say that drop pod deepstriking is generally superior mechanically in most ways. Guaranteed some turn 1 deepstriking, less threat to the units inside to mishap, and no risk of everyone ending their turn in a tight clump therefore being blast fodder.
Just cuz its superior doesn't mean they should have it.
I say they should get drop pods since the fluff supports it.
Not to mention... Every other space marine army has access to them. I know that is not the strongest argument but grey knights can keep their flavor and would be a more reliable army. Very frustrating to not get your troops until turn 3 or 4.
Many battles in grey knight history where grand masters and brother captains have elected to use drop pods to attack a demon infestation.
Thinking of doing some trial runs against some friends to see how drop pods work in grey knight armies.
From a Fluff perspective I agree they should have pods.
From a game play perspective, I'm for anything that adds flavor without catapulting an army's power over the top. I am NOT saying this would be the case.
Hope you'll do a write up of your experimental GK Pods Smote.
Smotejob wrote: I say they should get drop pods since the fluff supports it.
Not to mention... Every other space marine army has access to them. I know that is not the strongest argument but grey knights can keep their flavor and would be a more reliable army. Very frustrating to not get your troops until turn 3 or 4.
Many battles in grey knight history where grand masters and brother captains have elected to use drop pods to attack a demon infestation.
Thinking of doing some trial runs against some friends to see how drop pods work in grey knight armies.
Fluff from years ago, that the newer codex contradicts? When was the last time a GK novel came out? GK don't need Drop Pods because they can teleport. Teleportation is superior to Drop Pods (fluffwise). If other Marines could guarentee the same reliablity DP would become obsolete.
Also, if you want your troops in turn 1, deploy them.
Smotejob wrote: I say they should get drop pods since the fluff supports it.
Not to mention... Every other space marine army has access to them. I know that is not the strongest argument but grey knights can keep their flavor and would be a more reliable army. Very frustrating to not get your troops until turn 3 or 4.
Many battles in grey knight history where grand masters and brother captains have elected to use drop pods to attack a demon infestation.
Thinking of doing some trial runs against some friends to see how drop pods work in grey knight armies.
Fluff from years ago, that the newer codex contradicts? When was the last time a GK novel came out? GK don't need Drop Pods because they can teleport. Teleportation is superior to Drop Pods (fluffwise). If other Marines could guarentee the same reliablity DP would become obsolete.
Also, if you want your troops in turn 1, deploy them.
So an even newer codex will contradict that and say they do use drop pods. About half the posts in this thread are you saying the same thing. I think we all know you opinion by this point. If GW decides GK drop pods will sell, the fluff will be adjusted accordingly. In this case, it would hardly lead to howls of outrage given that GK drop pods are established in older fluff.
Smotejob wrote: I say they should get drop pods since the fluff supports it.
Not to mention... Every other space marine army has access to them. I know that is not the strongest argument but grey knights can keep their flavor and would be a more reliable army. Very frustrating to not get your troops until turn 3 or 4.
Many battles in grey knight history where grand masters and brother captains have elected to use drop pods to attack a demon infestation.
Thinking of doing some trial runs against some friends to see how drop pods work in grey knight armies.
Fluff from years ago, that the newer codex contradicts? When was the last time a GK novel came out? GK don't need Drop Pods because they can teleport. Teleportation is superior to Drop Pods (fluffwise). If other Marines could guarentee the same reliablity DP would become obsolete.
Also, if you want your troops in turn 1, deploy them.
So an even newer codex will contradict that and say they do use drop pods. About half the posts in this thread are you saying the same thing. I think we all know you opinion by this point. If GW decides GK drop pods will sell, the fluff will be adjusted accordingly. In this case, it would hardly lead to howls of outrage given that GK drop pods are established in older fluff.
If you want me to stop posting the same stuff, stop giving me reason to. If a new codex retcons it, fine. Until them, this is how it is.
I wager it will be a Sanctus Reach box for GK vs. Demons. It's so easy for them. Make a fancy Grand Master sculpt, throw in a strike squad a 5 pallies and they're done.
Ties in with the round of rumored demon releases, bridges the gap before Dark Eldar and Blood Angels.
Now, how the heck they weave DE and BA into Sanctus Reach is beyond me.
If a GK vs Daemons boxset is coming, I hope we get a new generic Grandmaster/Brother-Captain kit to go with it. GK more or less have all the kits they need except for their HQ's which are all still Failcast (I'm not counting inquisitors and henchmen since they're a separate codex now...)
pretre wrote: I bet there is no box set and it is just books (Just like Sanctus 1 with Noval/Campaign together). Another boxset so soon is just wishlisting.
But Stormclaw is long sold out? Wasn't the current rumor now that every new 2 codex would get a boxset vs one another?
pretre wrote: I bet there is no box set and it is just books (Just like Sanctus 1 with Noval/Campaign together). Another boxset so soon is just wishlisting.
But Stormclaw is long sold out? Wasn't the current rumor now that every new 2 codex would get a boxset vs one another?
That wasn't a rumor so much as people wishlisting in the Stormclaw thread, iirc.
pretre wrote: I bet there is no box set and it is just books (Just like Sanctus 1 with Noval/Campaign together). Another boxset so soon is just wishlisting.
But Stormclaw is long sold out? Wasn't the current rumor now that every new 2 codex would get a boxset vs one another?
That wasn't a rumor so much as people wishlisting in the Stormclaw thread, iirc.
There was a rumor that said as much on Natf-- never mind.
pretre wrote: I bet there is no box set and it is just books (Just like Sanctus 1 with Noval/Campaign together). Another boxset so soon is just wishlisting.
But Stormclaw is long sold out? Wasn't the current rumor now that every new 2 codex would get a boxset vs one another?
That wasn't a rumor so much as people wishlisting in the Stormclaw thread, iirc.
There was a rumor that said as much on Natf-- never mind.
Natfka
Supplement Rumors - July 2014
via an anonymous source on Faeit 212
We talked about this months ago We will be seeing lots more. Campaigns will be a big part of 7th to keep the narrative flowing.
Every other codex will have a campaign bridge with the next.
Like Orks - campaign - Space Wolves
for Example Dark Eldar - campaign - Blood Angels.
Each campaign is 3 parts.
1. before the box that sets the stage. Roughly alongside the first codex.
2. inside the box for the bulk of the fighting
3. after the box that concludes the campaign. Roughly alongside the second codex.
DV wont be pulled from each release, that's just happening now to make ensure that they all have 7th edition rule books (I don't know if old sets are being opened and then repackaged, but they just don't want 6th being sold). Anyone who bought DV recently btw can get a 7th mini rule book for free if they have their receipt showing the purchase date within a month of 7ths release.
I don't know for sure, but it was mentioned that all narrative boxes (like storm claw) will come with the mini rule book as added incentive, but DV will remain on the shelves as the starter product.
6 months per is roughly accurate. Their life cycles are directly tied to codex releases.
All will have special edition models like Krom and the Ork. That wont be later released separately. They will be box exclusive.
Supplement Rumors - July 2014
via Voice of the Chaos Gods
GW will release other Campagin Books with included old expansions from the softcover era. Storm Claw will be not the last Campaign based boxed set, every half year there comes a new boxed sets of this kind. This Sets can be imperial guard vs. eldar, blood angels vs orks or other Themes.
Was in Games Workshop Dublin today, one of only 2 GW Stores on the whole Island. They had 10 boxes of Stormclaw up for grabs, €100 a pop.
The junior clerk who was on at the time said they think they'll shift by the end of the month as SM is the most popular army in general. A lot of people are waiting it out to see if they can get it.
A younger guy beside me painting some Orks said he was interested, but wouldn't be able to get it until the end of August.
As for GK, I think this is just going to be the book release. The added fluff will get more people interested in the campaign books and keep the scenarios alive in ppls minds, and draw the kiddies to the extensive library on top of it. It's a bit of a win win imo.
But it depends on how the stores, and FLGS sell it. Without word of mouth and strong selling from people who know their fluff it could loose its potential as a narrative campaign that could run and run. I could see GW running narrative campaigns with tie in materials over a whole quarter or year, again and again, with only a few special sculpts and lots of supporting material.
A good way to advance all ranges imo. Expand the universe also.
Or will it always be stuck at just past 40,000 AD...
Well seeing as only 4 Codexes (GK, BA, DE and Necrons) are left to update to 7th Ed, I wouldn't mind such box sets for updates. I wouldn't mind a BA vs Necrons group but DE and GK should have normal updates.
mikhaila wrote: Can confirm that it is just a novel, available only on the BL website.
Bam! Thanks, mikhaila!
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Deadshot wrote: Well seeing as only 4 Codexes (GK, BA, DE and Necrons) are left to update to 7th Ed, I wouldn't mind such box sets for updates. I wouldn't mind a BA vs Necrons group but DE and GK should have normal updates.
Umm. That's incorrect, unless you meant 'update to 6th edition'. Otherwise, you can add 13 more codexes to that list.
Well considering they can never finish all the army books between editions that's just nitpicking, though I see your point. It's much easier to look at the army books separate from the editions they are released. Besides most people always think armies released late in one edition are written for the next anyway lol.
mikhaila wrote: Can confirm that it is just a novel, available only on the BL website.
Bam! Thanks, mikhaila!
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Deadshot wrote: Well seeing as only 4 Codexes (GK, BA, DE and Necrons) are left to update to 7th Ed, I wouldn't mind such box sets for updates. I wouldn't mind a BA vs Necrons group but DE and GK should have normal updates.
Umm. That's incorrect, unless you meant 'update to 6th edition'. Otherwise, you can add 13 more codexes to that list.
I see the hardbacks as a single edition update. They are similar and balanced enough that they all could be.
Now that Wolves have hit, The next 40k army will be Grey Knights. This release will be codex and data cards only. There will be zero kits for this release.
Should be soon. BA and DE could be down the road, but my source says GK. He's been right so many times.
No new models sounds weird for a codex release this important. But so far everything he predicted was right on.
Though they could release new different bundles without having actual new models. Or they could do a new Stormclaw like boxset with the rumored new daemons/csm units as the opposing faction.
Fairly disappointing mainly due to the fact BA now have the oldest codex and it's points costs are starting to really show.... oh well
mikhaila wrote: Can confirm that it is just a novel, available only on the BL website.
Bam! Thanks, mikhaila!
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Deadshot wrote: Well seeing as only 4 Codexes (GK, BA, DE and Necrons) are left to update to 7th Ed, I wouldn't mind such box sets for updates. I wouldn't mind a BA vs Necrons group but DE and GK should have normal updates.
Umm. That's incorrect, unless you meant 'update to 6th edition'. Otherwise, you can add 13 more codexes to that list.
I see the hardbacks as a single edition update. They are similar and balanced enough that they all could be.
CSM, Dark Angels and Nids would totally agree they are balanced just like Eldar! Also, there was a pretty drastic shift mid-edition to microtransactions (IE dataslates, etc) which makes the codices *not* similar nor balanced even among other hardback ones. It's just as screwed up as it's always been.. it's just harder to pin down because there is so much screwy stuff thrown around.
mikhaila wrote: Can confirm that it is just a novel, available only on the BL website.
Bam! Thanks, mikhaila!
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Deadshot wrote: Well seeing as only 4 Codexes (GK, BA, DE and Necrons) are left to update to 7th Ed, I wouldn't mind such box sets for updates. I wouldn't mind a BA vs Necrons group but DE and GK should have normal updates.
Umm. That's incorrect, unless you meant 'update to 6th edition'. Otherwise, you can add 13 more codexes to that list.
I see the hardbacks as a single edition update. They are similar and balanced enough that they all could be.
CSM, Dark Angels and Nids would totally agree they are balanced just like Eldar! Also, there was a pretty drastic shift mid-edition to microtransactions (IE dataslates, etc) which makes the codices *not* similar nor balanced even among other hardback ones. It's just as screwed up as it's always been.. it's just harder to pin down because there is so much screwy stuff thrown around.
They are not, never have, and never will be balanced for competitive play. But I have played Nids since 4th Ed. They work just fine in this edition. Chaos also work well, some build better than others. And from what I hear, Dark Angels do alright too.
Eldar may be at the top of the pile but not so far above they can never be beaten. They can.
To be honest, I would like to think that GKs are getting a new dex, I really do, but I feel like GW is just going to crapshoot it. Talks of removing the Inquisitorial Warbands and having them just be in the inquisition codex. I really hope that they keep it similar because today GKs aren't OP, if anything I would like to see them have a price raise for Coteaz, not by much but still one, and to keep the Inqisitors in the dex. What makes GKs good in 7th is the war bands. Removing them and just having terminators as troops is terrible. We all know how bad terminators are. Now, with this all in mind, we also have to entertain the possibility that yes, there will be a new book out highlighting GKs, but there might not be a new codex just yet. I would be surprised to see them before some other armies that IMO need it more.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
RedFox wrote: That Daemons vs Grey Knights Sanctus Reach boxset I predicted makes even more sense now
I would like to have a GK Force of MEQ and TEQ be viable, I would rather not run warbands or inq spam.
Not all GK players are fans of the INQ side of the codex, and with Inq having its own codex, removal of that stuff for better Space Marine related options would be better in my book
WrentheFaceless wrote: I would like to have a GK Force of MEQ and TEQ be viable, I would rather not run warbands or inq spam.
Not all GK players are fans of the INQ side of the codex, and with Inq having its own codex, removal of that stuff for better Space Marine related options would be better in my book
yup, I would rather have a only GK codex now that INQ has it's own.
WrentheFaceless wrote: I would like to have a GK Force of MEQ and TEQ be viable, I would rather not run warbands or inq spam.
Not all GK players are fans of the INQ side of the codex, and with Inq having its own codex, removal of that stuff for better Space Marine related options would be better in my book
yup, I would rather have a only GK codex now that INQ has it's own.
So you want it to be more fluffy and cool at the expense of how good the army actually is? IMO the Inquisition is what makes GKs good. Especially with OS being such a big deal apparently, having the 20+ warp charge dice and 6 OS transports is good. If you want to blow points on Terminators that will get hit by one Riptide IA shot and die, then go ahead, but if they take out inquisition and there is no option to take is as an ally that doesn't count for a slot (talking about how the BAO lets you have one CAD and one other detachment) then I would rather sell all my GKs then play them if they are going to be a small codex comprised of Characters, Draigo (most likely to be a LoW), Paladins, Terminators, no more assassins, no inquisitorial stuff, Dreadnoughts, Dread knights, transports, and purgation squads.
If they change it too much, I don't see how they would be good at all. With GKs getting their own psychic discipline, that must be good, but if they lose too much, that probably can't make up for it. I really want GKs to be great again, not a crazy, but still seen at tournaments more, without it being the Centruion Star. In fact, the only thing that would be good about a GK codex change is the fact that if inquisitors and GKs split, then you lose one GK librarian if you still want to run the Cent Star, it still just mitigates the damage it can do though.
In conclusion, I want GKs to do well and become more viable on the tournament scene, but if they are going to take out what is already making them hang in there, I don't see how they can be changed if they are not going to make new kits.
WrentheFaceless wrote: I would like to have a GK Force of MEQ and TEQ be viable, I would rather not run warbands or inq spam.
Not all GK players are fans of the INQ side of the codex, and with Inq having its own codex, removal of that stuff for better Space Marine related options would be better in my book
yup, I would rather have a only GK codex now that INQ has it's own.
Agreed. Inq should be their own hardback mini-codex, like Knights.
The question then becomes what does codex GK need with the removal of Inquisition?
Going through the FOC minus the INQ stuff
HQ: Draigo (99% move to Lord of War)
Grand Master (Chapter master eq)
Mordrak (could go away for lacking a model, but could also be given a model in a box set or something. Ghost Knights could easily become a conjuration spell for him)
Brother Captain (Captain eq)
Stern (Has a model, not going anywhere)
Brotherhood Champion (Odd bird, meant to duel, needs updated to fit better with current challenge mechanics. Possibly better moved to Elite?)
Crowe (Named champion, regarded as poor, a "tax" to get purifiers as troops. Needs a rethink, esp if Brotherhood champion moves to elites.
Librarian (Librarian eq)
Pretty similar to other SM books. Lacking a command squad/honor guard unit of some sort, but Paladins are basically that but in elites. Also missing a Chaplain, who exists in the fluff, and would fit in well if the champion moves to elites.
Elites: Techmarine (currently used as a grenade caddy mostly. Maybe fix grenades and give him servitor access? Otherwise fine.)
Purifiers (Veteran troop EQ. 2 specials per 5, extra attack base. Cleansing Flame made them strong.)
Venerable Dreadnought (Probably needs a point drop to match other Ven dreads)
Paladin Squad (Elite Terminators mixed with command squad elements). Could use Dedicated transport options
Removing the Inq stuff hits Elites pretty hard- henchmen and assassins. Moving the Brotherhood Champion to Elites may help, and the likely end of purifiers and paladins as troops means competition will be up. If they do a new Dreadnought kit for GK, a Librarian Dread in Elites would make a lot of sense, as BA started the trend.
Troops: Terminator Squad (Basic terminators. Could use dedicated transport options)
Justicar Thawn (upgrade character for Terminator squad. Could easily disappear)
GK squad (Basic troops)
Troops will be taken more if Paladins and Purifiers are no longer troop options. Expensive base, but GK are an elite army. It would be nice for troops (and by extension everyone) if Nemesis weapons were a bit more equalized and costed the same for everyone- Make the sword, halberd, and falchions AP3, and have them give +1WS, +1I, and Shred respectively. Keep the hammer as a Thunderhammer Eq for +10 points, and the Warding Stave as a Force Stave +2 Str, AP4, concussive with a +1 to Invul and Deny the witch saves for +15 or +20
Fast Attack:
Stormraven (really a HS plane, only in FA due to lack of other options)
Interceptor Squad (Jump infantry EQ)
Weakest section of the FOC. 2 units, one that should really be in HS. Plenty of room for expansion. GK are high tech, and lack biker equivalents, so a Jetbike unit would be nice, though DA players would cry. Maybe add a flier, possibly the Storm Talon, to deal with flying daemons?
Heavy Support
Purgation Squad (Devastator Eq)
Dreadnought (mainly here to fill out HS, normally an elite slot unit)
Dreadknight (Works well as HS.)
Land Raider + variants (It's a land raider)
Like FA, rather light on options. Another area for possible new kits. Gk specific Centurions could help fill out FA and HS, with assaulty ones with nemesis weapons in FA and shooty ones with Psy-weapons and lascannons for HS. Would probably deserve a specific kit as well, with the proper weapons and engraved plates and such. Maybe give FA centurions the option to buy Teleporters like Interceptors?
WrentheFaceless wrote: I would like to have a GK Force of MEQ and TEQ be viable, I would rather not run warbands or inq spam.
Not all GK players are fans of the INQ side of the codex, and with Inq having its own codex, removal of that stuff for better Space Marine related options would be better in my book
yup, I would rather have a only GK codex now that INQ has it's own.
So you want it to be more fluffy and cool at the expense of how good the army actually is? IMO the Inquisition is what makes GKs good. Especially with OS being such a big deal apparently, having the 20+ warp charge dice and 6 OS transports is good. If you want to blow points on Terminators that will get hit by one Riptide IA shot and die, then go ahead, but if they take out inquisition and there is no option to take is as an ally that doesn't count for a slot (talking about how the BAO lets you have one CAD and one other detachment) then I would rather sell all my GKs then play them if they are going to be a small codex comprised of Characters, Draigo (most likely to be a LoW), Paladins, Terminators, no more assassins, no inquisitorial stuff, Dreadnoughts, Dread knights, transports, and purgation squads.
If they change it too much, I don't see how they would be good at all. With GKs getting their own psychic discipline, that must be good, but if they lose too much, that probably can't make up for it. I really want GKs to be great again, not a crazy, but still seen at tournaments more, without it being the Centruion Star. In fact, the only thing that would be good about a GK codex change is the fact that if inquisitors and GKs split, then you lose one GK librarian if you still want to run the Cent Star, it still just mitigates the damage it can do though.
In conclusion, I want GKs to do well and become more viable on the tournament scene, but if they are going to take out what is already making them hang in there, I don't see how they can be changed if they are not going to make new kits.
You seem to be missing the point.
We want to be good, without having to rely on what are arguably now units out of a separate codex. And personally I feel inq spam lists are not "GK lists", but thats just me
You also missed the suggestion of adding more related SM stuff to fill in the Inquisition gaps. As well as a general point decrease all around.
Yknow a full faction codex like Space Wolves of Dark Angels. They're separate fully functional marine factions.
Inquisition has its own codex now, the GK codex should be fleshed out to fill the gaps to make it an actuall GK codes, not the GK/Inq codes
If this is true, we need to have a special force org. That allows for more elites or something like that. IMO
Automatically Appended Next Post: The lengthy post going over the specific units and slots. Amazing. With some of those changes I could see it working, along with my suggestion above. Bikes and Centurions as more things that are GK specific would be awesome. Them would I feel like Inquisition could get the boot (a physical copy would be nice too)
My only concern is that GW will not be making new kits for this release, that is what I have heard
I cant believe that. Not for a second. Back in 5th they sold soooo many Grey Knights. They were such a power dex, almost everyone bought someone. The user base (that still plays 40k anyway) with a grey knight army sitting in a closet waiting for some fresh rules and models is probably still huge
Goresaw wrote: I cant believe that. Not for a second. Back in 5th they sold soooo many Grey Knights. They were such a power dex, almost everyone bought someone. The user base (that still plays 40k anyway) with a grey knight army sitting in a closet waiting for some fresh rules and models is probably still huge
Games Workshop will not be releasing new models on the release of the GKs codex.
Goresaw wrote: I cant believe that. Not for a second. Back in 5th they sold soooo many Grey Knights. They were such a power dex, almost everyone bought someone. The user base (that still plays 40k anyway) with a grey knight army sitting in a closet waiting for some fresh rules and models is probably still huge
This is my belief as well. But on the other hand, GK already have more or less all their units covered with the PA and TEQ kits (unless they create new ones, which is certainly a possibility).
Inquisitors and their henchmen need a lot of work, but those have their own codex now so I'm 99% sure they won't be in GK anymore.
The only kits GK really need are for their HQ's, but even then, a generic Chapter Master/Brother-Captain/Champion can easily be kit bashed from the exiting plastic kits.
I do agree that taking out the inquisition units leaves GK somewhat bare-boned, that's why I'm thinking either the new dex will import some more units from Vanilla Marines, create some more, or if not, the codex might be an online only Codex like the SoB one...
Agreed. Inq should be their own hardback mini-codex, like Knights.
Spoiler:
HQ: Draigo (99% move to Lord of War)
Grand Master (Chapter master eq)
Mordrak (could go away for lacking a model, but could also be given a model in a box set or something. Ghost Knights could easily become a conjuration spell for him)
Brother Captain (Captain eq)
Stern (Has a model, not going anywhere)
Brotherhood Champion (Odd bird, meant to duel, needs updated to fit better with current challenge mechanics. Possibly better moved to Elite?)
Crowe (Named champion, regarded as poor, a "tax" to get purifiers as troops. Needs a rethink, esp if Brotherhood champion moves to elites.
Librarian (Librarian eq)
Pretty similar to other SM books. Lacking a command squad/honor guard unit of some sort, but Paladins are basically that but in elites. Also missing a Chaplain, who exists in the fluff, and would fit in well if the champion moves to elites.
Elites: Techmarine (currently used as a grenade caddy mostly. Maybe fix grenades and give him servitor access? Otherwise fine.)
Purifiers (Veteran troop EQ. 2 specials per 5, extra attack base. Cleansing Flame made them strong.)
Venerable Dreadnought (Probably needs a point drop to match other Ven dreads)
Paladin Squad (Elite Terminators mixed with command squad elements). Could use Dedicated transport options
Removing the Inq stuff hits Elites pretty hard- henchmen and assassins. Moving the Brotherhood Champion to Elites may help, and the likely end of purifiers and paladins as troops means competition will be up. If they do a new Dreadnought kit for GK, a Librarian Dread in Elites would make a lot of sense, as BA started the trend.
Troops: Terminator Squad (Basic terminators. Could use dedicated transport options)
Justicar Thawn (upgrade character for Terminator squad. Could easily disappear)
GK squad (Basic troops)
Troops will be taken more if Paladins and Purifiers are no longer troop options. Expensive base, but GK are an elite army. It would be nice for troops (and by extension everyone) if Nemesis weapons were a bit more equalized and costed the same for everyone- Make the sword, halberd, and falchions AP3, and have them give +1WS, +1I, and Shred respectively. Keep the hammer as a Thunderhammer Eq for +10 points, and the Warding Stave as a Force Stave +2 Str, AP4, concussive with a +1 to Invul and Deny the witch saves for +15 or +20
Fast Attack:
Stormraven (really a HS plane, only in FA due to lack of other options)
Interceptor Squad (Jump infantry EQ)
Weakest section of the FOC. 2 units, one that should really be in HS. Plenty of room for expansion. GK are high tech, and lack biker equivalents, so a Jetbike unit would be nice, though DA players would cry. Maybe add a flier, possibly the Storm Talon, to deal with flying daemons?
Heavy Support
Purgation Squad (Devastator Eq)
Dreadnought (mainly here to fill out HS, normally an elite slot unit)
Dreadknight (Works well as HS.)
Land Raider + variants (It's a land raider)
Like FA, rather light on options. Another area for possible new kits. Gk specific Centurions could help fill out FA and HS, with assaulty ones with nemesis weapons in FA and shooty ones with Psy-weapons and lascannons for HS. Would probably deserve a specific kit as well, with the proper weapons and engraved plates and such. Maybe give FA centurions the option to buy Teleporters like Interceptors?
Seriously, Wes. Have you considered applying for a position with the design team?
I'll be really pissed off if Thawn goes. I'm doing in a GK Termy squad. Have a temporary pin that can swap between Sword like the rest of the unit and Warding Stave for challenges. And I have a Halberd all done up for Thawn-mode. God damn GW.
I really hope there remains some way to have Paladins as Troops. Otherwise I have no GK army anymore. My only troops are 10 Paladins and this 5 man Termy squad I've not used yet. I can't even proxy the Paladins as Termies because they have an Apothecary and my fluff OCD and those Paladin style heads will not allow.
If there are no minis, there will be no new codex. Model making company and all that. Releasing a new book with no models is leaving money on the table.... or even worse losing money. We all know these ridiculously expensive books are just an excuse to sell you $80 flying bricks for each squad of your armored space vikings.
Could they move the GK story forward a bit so that Draigo has finally escaped the warp and is now the Grand Master of the Grey Knights?
Or even retcon it to be 'boy dun spent 1,000 years in the warp smiting stuff, now he's dun served his time and iz back!'
I think that would be infinitely better than Draigo just magically getting sucked into the material realm. And now he's not just stalking around the warp getting high off warp dust and doing things that shouldn't be possible.
Thinking about things and talking with my FLGS manager, we've come up with a few ideas of what the new GK codex could contain:
1) Purgation squad kit. This is the chance for GWs to release a kit with new weapons that would give the GKs a proper devestator type squad.
2) Draigo may have two stat lines. Draigo as he is now, and draigo as a 'Draigonought.' Ie grey knights have found a way to keep Draigo out of the warp for longer but involves the use of a dreadnought body.
3) Interceptors move to Troops slot. NDK with the personal teleporter becomes a fast attack.
4) Introduction of the SM vehicles 'leaked' in the GK errata.
5) A Librarian dreadnought. Of all the chapters that could have one, the chapter of psychics makes sense.
6) The loss of the INQ component of the codex.
7) Some army wide improved deepstrike ability. Less scatter for example, or army wide modifier to deepstrike reserves roll.
8) -Maybe- Jet bikes. This one is a big maybe in our eyes. We think they'd only add these if interceptors didn't compete for the same slot. Afterall GW wants you to buy this new kit and if it competes with one of the better MEQGK units, then people may be hesitant to buy them.
chnmmr wrote: Thinking about things and talking with my FLGS manager, we've come up with a few ideas of what the new GK codex could contain:
1) Purgation squad kit. This is the chance for GWs to release a kit with new weapons that would give the GKs a proper devestator type squad.
2) Draigo may have two stat lines. Draigo as he is now, and draigo as a 'Draigonought.' Ie grey knights have found a way to keep Draigo out of the warp for longer but involves the use of a dreadnought body.
3) Interceptors move to Troops slot. NDK with the personal teleporter becomes a fast attack.
4) Introduction of the SM vehicles 'leaked' in the GK errata.
5) A Librarian dreadnought. Of all the chapters that could have one, the chapter of psychics makes sense.
6) The loss of the INQ component of the codex.
7) Some army wide improved deepstrike ability. Less scatter for example, or army wide modifier to deepstrike reserves roll.
8) -Maybe- Jet bikes. This one is a big maybe in our eyes. We think they'd only add these if interceptors didn't compete for the same slot. Afterall GW wants you to buy this new kit and if it competes with one of the better MEQGK units, then people may be hesitant to buy them.
chnmmr wrote: Thinking about things and talking with my FLGS manager, we've come up with a few ideas of what the new GK codex could contain:
1) Purgation squad kit. This is the chance for GWs to release a kit with new weapons that would give the GKs a proper devestator type squad.
2) Draigo may have two stat lines. Draigo as he is now, and draigo as a 'Draigonought.' Ie grey knights have found a way to keep Draigo out of the warp for longer but involves the use of a dreadnought body.
3) Interceptors move to Troops slot. NDK with the personal teleporter becomes a fast attack.
4) Introduction of the SM vehicles 'leaked' in the GK errata.
5) A Librarian dreadnought. Of all the chapters that could have one, the chapter of psychics makes sense.
6) The loss of the INQ component of the codex.
7) Some army wide improved deepstrike ability. Less scatter for example, or army wide modifier to deepstrike reserves roll.
8) -Maybe- Jet bikes. This one is a big maybe in our eyes. We think they'd only add these if interceptors didn't compete for the same slot. Afterall GW wants you to buy this new kit and if it competes with one of the better MEQGK units, then people may be hesitant to buy them.
9) Chaplain
They are in the novels, why not in the codex?
1. Possible. They could add one sprue with more heavy weapons and other special stuff to the current GK kit and charge more for it. But it wouldn't really be anything different to the current kit.
2. Draigo just needs an AP2 sword, and will probably move to the LOW slot. I kind of like the fluff that he is trapped in the Warp, Samurai Jack style, but I'd like to see it toyed with a bit- the warp does not interact with time normally, so he has been spat out throughout the past 10K years as a mysterious figure appearing to help the GKs, a great mystery until Draigo realizes that is him and willingly goes to the battle where he is trapped. Less of the burning down the warp though.
3. Unlikely. GK are already very short of FA choices. And if interceptors move to troops, why take normal Strike Squads?
4. I'd rather not see more of the Generic SM vehicles become part of GK. GK specific Centurions, or GK Storm Talons sure, those could easily fit roles the GK need. But battle tanks and artillery, not as much
5. Yes. This. All it would take is letting a Ven Dread buy Mastery Levels.
6. Yes. Inq should be their own book like Knights.
7. Agreed. Something like Descent of Angels and/or Deathwing Assault rules would help a lot. Drop Pods are far superior rule-wise to deep strike as it is.
8. Jet Bikes are popular because they are high-tech, look cool, and the GK are logically the faction to have them still working in numbers. It also would fill the sparse FA slot. They also would serve a separate role from Interceptors- they Bikes are faster and tougher, but would be more expensive and possibly weaker in an assault (maybe not have the bikers armed with nemesis weapons?)
9. Chaplain. Yes. I want a Chaplain in HQ, and bump the Brotherhood Champion to Elite.
The Inquisition now has its own 'army' dropdown on the Store which wasn't there before, though all of it can still be found under Grey Knights as well.
A stormtalon with the stock TLHBs/TLAsC loaded with Psy-ammo would be a scary bird.
I bet dollars to dimes that psy-bolt ammo disappears entirely or at the very least is a relic or HQ upgrade. It is easily one of the poorest written rules. They just need to make psilencers actually work and revert psycanons to less shots at further range and they'd be set.
Look at all the most recent books. SW lost 75% of their unique gear. Ever since things have shifted to an armory, gear had been vanishing and being streamlined like crazy. I am terrified at how much I expect to lose when my DE get over hauled.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Maybe we'll get a new Draigo model. He can be riding a chariot (the chariot will actually be Mortarion, with his name clearly carved into it).
He can steer the Mortariot by waggling his sword, still embedded in Mortarion's heart, to the left or right.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Maybe we'll get a new Draigo model. He can be riding a chariot (the chariot will actually be Mortarion, with his name clearly carved into it).
Arbitrator wrote: The Inquisition now has its own 'army' dropdown on the Store which wasn't there before, though all of it can still be found under Grey Knights as well.
Take that as you will.
That is quite interesting. On a similar note, there is no link to purchasing their own codex.
Although that new Inquisition section is missing several models (including any vehicles) so it may just be a web glitch. Still, I will be following that.
Spoiler:
And praying that they get an honest to god physical book, I am tired of bringing a tablet to games.
Happygrunt wrote: And praying that they get an honest to god physical book, I am tired of bringing a tablet to games.
I printed mine...
I would love to print my copy, but seeing as the book is formatted pretty badly and I don't want to print the whole codex at home (and I have yet to look into how much Kinkos will cost me to print it) I am stuck with the tablet version.
Happygrunt wrote: And praying that they get an honest to god physical book, I am tired of bringing a tablet to games.
I printed mine...
I would love to print my copy, but seeing as the book is formatted pretty badly and I don't want to print the whole codex at home (and I have yet to look into how much Kinkos will cost me to print it) I am stuck with the tablet version.
I reformatted both my C:AS and my C:Inq. AS I printed at Office Max for like $10 (bound and everything). C:Inq, I changed to 4 pages to a page and printed the rules pages at home.
streetsamurai wrote: My LGS told me that they received an email from the distributors telling them that theirs is a new boxset coming
That's it? No other details?
Not a lot more to tell, I called the store to know if he has a box of sanctus reach skyclaw, and he told me no, but that he had been told in an email by the distributor, than a new set was coming.
via an anonymous source on Faeit 212
Next weeks White Dwarf cover reads like the following.......
Dare You Read The New Codex?
Grey Knights
Beware, Daemons, For Your Time Has Come.
This really feels like a last minute thing from GW. Maybe they really wanted a new codex to fit with a possible Sanctus Reach release...and maybe we'll actually see new models later
Tbh I really don't think jet bikes will happen. I'd love it too but I don't think it will.
Chaplains I think will be another GW oversight and they'll get missed too.
Draigo I reckon will have AP2 and a LoW slot coming his way.
Libby Dread is entirely likely even if it doesn't get a new model.
And from the FAQ I think we'll be getting Whirlwinds and the like for sure I'd also put money on the INQ units to get scrapped and for Stormtalons to get added (were they included as part of Death From the Skies?)
BrianDavion wrote: aren;'t all GK dreads psykers already? a Lib psyker could be doable, just "for x points upgrade the dread to a librarian dreadnought with ML2"
My fear is that this codex will be a huge rush job -- as in: "Quick, we need a 7th ed book to move when people buy a sanctus reach box."
If rumors are true that inquisition is getting pulled out AND there are no new models, suddenly an all GK book becomes very boring and "samey." In terms of the tabletop there wont be much variety to running grey knights and that would be a shame.
Happygrunt wrote: And praying that they get an honest to god physical book, I am tired of bringing a tablet to games.
I printed mine...
I would love to print my copy, but seeing as the book is formatted pretty badly and I don't want to print the whole codex at home (and I have yet to look into how much Kinkos will cost me to print it) I am stuck with the tablet version.
I reformatted both my C:AS and my C:Inq. AS I printed at Office Max for like $10 (bound and everything). C:Inq, I changed to 4 pages to a page and printed the rules pages at home.
I may have to do that. Hopefully I will be able to reformat C:Inq without too much trouble.
More likely the gk dex is needed as the faqs changed all there psy powers and made a lot of changes (addded sm vehicals) plus as said earlyer they have most of there models already. So to me this will be a tidy up exercise rather than a full overhaul.
Skullhammer wrote: More likely the gk dex is needed as the faqs changed all there psy powers and made a lot of changes (addded sm vehicals) plus as said earlyer they have most of there models already. So to me this will be a tidy up exercise rather than a full overhaul.
That's a possibility. The GK dex is a total mess atm with half their rules replaced with ones in the rulebook, not to mention psychic powers.
pretre wrote: I reformatted both my C:AS and my C:Inq. AS I printed at Office Max for like $10 (bound and everything). C:Inq, I changed to 4 pages to a page and printed the rules pages at home.
I may have to do that. Hopefully I will be able to reformat C:Inq without too much trouble.
It's pretty easy, I reformatted my Sisters and Inquisition codices too. I just copied everything into Word, repositioned/resized the text and pictures so that the pages lined up logically (I used the full page pictures that are scattered through the books as page buffers where needed) and then printed and bound everything at work. Took maybe half a day, in between doing actual work lol, at the office.
via an anonymous source on Faeit 212
Next weeks White Dwarf cover reads like the following.......
Dare You Read The New Codex?
Grey Knights
Beware, Daemons, For Your Time Has Come.
This really feels like a last minute thing from GW. Maybe they really wanted a new codex to fit with a possible Sanctus Reach release...and maybe we'll actually see new models later
Please oh please, don't let this be yet another groin shot at all Daemon players.
I don' think I can handle getting hit for a 3rd time by a book that's pretty much designed to outright troll my entire army.
Still really hoping all of this is false. Blood angels are the oldest codex and most in need of an update. Might as well do crons while theyre at it, too. Heck, lets just shelve the angels and start with the 6th ed codices.
via an anonymous source on Faeit 212
Next weeks White Dwarf cover reads like the following.......
Dare You Read The New Codex?
Grey Knights
Beware, Daemons, For Your Time Has Come.
This really feels like a last minute thing from GW. Maybe they really wanted a new codex to fit with a possible Sanctus Reach release...and maybe we'll actually see new models later
Please oh please, don't let this be yet another groin shot at all Daemon players.
I don' think I can handle getting hit for a 3rd time by a book that's pretty much designed to outright troll my entire army.
Meh, GK aren't exactly the hardest matchup for daemons currently. The question is will they author an army that is both standalone and capable of being fielded alongside most factions within the game with minimal effort that will discourage people from buying all those daemons kits which can be fielded by literally everyone (sorry Nids) for no effort at all?
This dove tail nicely with the "daemons wave in August" rumour doing the rounds a few weeks back though.
A user of the main french warhammer forum (http://www.warhammer-forum.com/index.php?showtopic=221485&st=0) who bought the digital edition of the SW codex today reported that this new digital codex include a brand new army list builder app. But, what interest us, is that he also said that he was able to see in this new tool a different GK army list than the current one, maybe from the upcoming dex (due to a bug). Here is what he reported, of course i cannot tell you if this is 100% legit :
HQ
- Brother Captain (same point cost as before)
-- Grand Master
-- Melta bombs
--Digital weapons
-- Teleport Homer
New relics :
-- Master crafted
-- Bone Shard of Solor
-- The fury of Deimos
-- Cuirass of Sacrifice
-- The Soul Glaive
-- Domina Liber Daemonica
- Brother-Captain stern (less expensive than before, point drop = power weapon),
- BrotherHood Champion
- Castellan Crowe (more expensive than before)
- Librarian (lvl 2), (point deacrase = GK rhino)
-- Niveau 3
-- combi weapon
-- GKcc weapon
-- Melta-bombs
-- Digital weapons
--Teleport homer
--Master-crafted
-- relics
- Techmarine, same cost as before
TROOP
- Strike Squad, a little more expensive
- Terminator Squad, price less expensive than before (the point drop = price of nemesis scepter)
-- no more justicar Thawn
-- Land raider dedicated transport
ELITE
- Purifier Squad, a little more expensive than before
- Paladin Squad, suaqd of 3 for the cost of a 5 man vanilla terminator squad
-- Land raider as dedicated transport
- Dreadnought, a little more expensive
-- can become vénérable
FAST ATTACK
- Interceptor Squad, same cost as before
-- Incinerator, huge discount as GK weapon's cost is the same for every entry now
- Stormraven,
HEAVY SUPPORT
- Purgator Squad, un peu + cher qu'avant. RAS
- Nemesis Dreadknight, same cost
-- Personal teleporter has gone cheaper !
LORD OF WAR
- Draigo Kaldor, cheaper.
SO no more inquisition stuff on the dex.
ps : as i'm french too i apology for the bad english !
So, based upon that, it looks like GK's are getting the SoB treatment (i.e. a digital only dex?). If this is true, and I hope it isn't, they've taken all of the flavor out of the army.
for $300 like the space wolf book.
.
