1: Sad no inquisitor in GK, by rumours, as they were good cheap HQ units. The same with assassins, but if my wolvies can use a vindicare that's cool.
2: Draigo. I am one those people who is a tiny comic and film nerd. Lets give draigo the name of Iron man or Thor. Now no-one complains when they cut through an army to find the villain and win nearly single handed, so why complain when a man in huge terminator armour, wielding a sword and shield, kicks ass and defeats Mortarion. They are the same things, heroes do stupid stuff and ALWAYS win, it's the narrative imperative. A hero will always do something brave and fool-hardy and win, look at Sharpe in Sharpe Eagle; pledges to get a french eagle in revenge for death of another officer. Told that is would be suicide and no done, but still goes ahead and gets the eagle. The hero always wins, most of the time. QED Draigo is a hero.
Consistency of tone is a vital part of maintaining the reader's suspension of disbelief.
Just because they're two things I watched recently, compare and contrast the new BBC adaptation of The Musketeers with the film Event Horizon. The former is a flashy adventure show, where the good guys in awesome costumes have swordfights and blackpowder shootouts with the bad guys, they kill the henchmen and beat the bad guy leader, the damsel is saved and they all retire to the tavern to get raging drunk, huzzah! The latter is part horror, part sci-fi, all atmosphere. It's not about valiant heroes engaging in derring-do and saving the day, it's about people just trying to survive in the face of some nameless Stygian horror that wants, if it can even be said to have desires at all, to shred their sanity and watch as they die a gruesome death.
The problem with GW fluff in general and the heart-carvery incident specifically, is that they fluctuate between the two extremes in a completely unpredictable and thus immersion-breaking way. One moment the Grey Knights are portrayed as shining heroes standing alone against the darkness(classical knights and chivalry narrative), the next they are ruthless pragmatists who treat with xenos, bathe in the blood of allies, and carry daemonic artifacts and weapons into battle(90's antihero narrative), then they're fighting a hopeless unwinnable shadow-war against the literal stuff of nightmares(why hallo thar Lovecraft), and then the reader gets slapped in the face with Draigo featured in a completely OTT comic book-style where he defeats an entity that should by all rights have stepped on him like a bug, because Righteous Anger or whatever, and then literally walks into hell but remains Space Marine Jesus despite it supposedly being impossible for a mortal, any mortal, to survive there.
So yes, in an "adventure" story, the narrative imperative is that the heroes triumph, and the reader will accept that even if they do so in an incredibly contrived and ridiculous way because it's what they expect to happen, but even when 40K was much more Monty Python than Grimdark Srs Bsns it was more towards the Event Horizon end of the narrative scale than the kind of adventuring hero tales that would justify Draigo-esque escapades, and even if the more recent direction of 40K fluff has been towards the adventuring heroes brand of story, you still can't just drop that kind of story right into the middle of other types of stories with different narrative imperatives and expect people to go "oh OK cool beans dude that makes sense".
Yodhrin wrote: and then literally walks into hell but remains Space Marine Jesus despite it supposedly being impossible for a mortal, any mortal, to survive there.
Fluff argument, I know, but it's far from impossible to survive there, it's just not a very pleasant place to be with a very high mortality rate. Just think of all the warp travel and teleportation. Void Ship and Space Hulk inhabitants, Warp Spiders, Interceptor squads, etc, they all spend various lengths of time in the warp, either with or without the added protection of stuff like Gellar fields. And while there are certainly a lot of deaths and warp mutations and so on, plenty still make it through with their sanity relatively intact.
Heck, Maugan Ra was happily strolling along in the Warp long before Draigo was even conceived, and I'm sure Draigo can exert a lot control over the Warp than the Phoenix Lord can.
WrentheFaceless wrote: Was waiting for someone to claim that "The 10 man box isnt a discount, its the 5 man box thats over priced nya nya nya"
You know the two statements are not mutually exclusive, yeah? If I offer you one of a thing at an inflated cost, and two of a thing at slightly less than double the inflated cost, you would be perfectly entitled to still call both overpriced despite the latter technically offering a discount.
Well calling them both over priced was the inevitable conclusion i guess
I quite like those point values. Especially regularizing the different CCW and special weapons between squads. Some units see weapons go up in price, but most see them go way down.
Not having read all of the previous 31 pages, I apologize in advance if this has been answered already.
There was a separate rumor going around these boards of a new Chaos Daemon wave sometime later this year. If they are combining two different codex releases into one boxed set, Daemons next would make sense, but I haven't seen anything else on that other than wish-listing. Is there any serious hint that Daemons are next?
I know this is a bit off topic, but I'd take a new Grey Knights codex if it means new plastic Greater Daemons were coming up next.
Man...did the Apothecary upgrade used to be 75 points, or was that for the entire model? Or did the apothecary upgrade just get way the heck cheaper? Force staves only 5 pts per...must've been mega-nerfed. Draigo knocked down by 30 pts as well, Dreadknight cheaper...very interesting.
Colpicklejar wrote: Man...did the Apothecary upgrade used to be 75 points, or was that for the entire model? Or did the apothecary upgrade just get way the heck cheaper? Force staves only 5 pts per...must've been mega-nerfed. Draigo knocked down by 30 pts as well, Dreadknight cheaper...very interesting.
Got much cheaper, the upgrade was 75 points so it was 55 +75 for an apoc
I’m thinking that this codex may make more sense than were giving it credit for. Many people have noted that GK defensively at least are the same as regular SM who pay more for having the storm bolter and force weapon. Previously with expensive weapon upgrades you had to pay for those 2 offensive weapons along with the weapon upgrade (even though you lose the use of the storm bolter and force sword). Lowering the cost of the upgrades I think does a good job of making the army more competitive in a shooting heavy edition, but at the same time not changing the fluff that the GK are a elite army.
SpyderG6 wrote: Lowering the cost of the upgrades I think does a good job of making the army more competitive in a shooting heavy edition, but at the same time not changing the fluff that the GK are a elite army.
Sorry to nitpick but this part of your statement may or may not be accurate, depending upon what, if anything, has happened to psybolt ammo. Additionally, since the majority of GK shooting is 24" and lacking in low AP, they're still very much hampered in a shooty ruleset.
I just realized something: Since the new standard for the 7e codices is to so a picture of the actual model for the unit described instead of artwork, what is the GK codex gonna show for Grand Masters since they don't have a model?
Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote: I just realized something: Since the new standard for the 7e codices is to so a picture of the actual model for the unit described instead of artwork, what is the GK codex gonna show for Grand Masters since they don't have a model?
Probably the Brother Captain, as Grand Master is an upgrade for them now if the army builder is to be believed
Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote: I just realized something: Since the new standard for the 7e codices is to so a picture of the actual model for the unit described instead of artwork, what is the GK codex gonna show for Grand Masters since they don't have a model?
The SW codex had a conversion for both the Wolf Priest and Wolf Lord, since there is no dedicated model for either of them.
SpyderG6 wrote: Lowering the cost of the upgrades I think does a good job of making the army more competitive in a shooting heavy edition, but at the same time not changing the fluff that the GK are a elite army.
Sorry to nitpick but this part of your statement may or may not be accurate, depending upon what, if anything, has happened to psybolt ammo. Additionally, since the majority of GK shooting is 24" and lacking in low AP, they're still very much hampered in a shooty ruleset.
Not a nitpick at all, its a good catch. Im hoping that its accounted for in a special rule for the army or something that doesnt show up in an army builder.
Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote: I just realized something: Since the new standard for the 7e codices is to so a picture of the actual model for the unit described instead of artwork, what is the GK codex gonna show for Grand Masters since they don't have a model?
The SW codex had a conversion for both the Wolf Priest and Wolf Lord, since there is no dedicated model for either of them.
I'm hoping the GK books has conversions instead of the old resin Brother-Captain model.
Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote: I just realized something: Since the new standard for the 7e codices is to so a picture of the actual model for the unit described instead of artwork, what is the GK codex gonna show for Grand Masters since they don't have a model?
The SW codex had a conversion for both the Wolf Priest and Wolf Lord, since there is no dedicated model for either of them.
Which then begs the question of why the FETH have we lost all of the other special characters who could have been equally well served by a suitable conversion?! I mean for gawds sake they've got a ton of talented sculptors, painters and model makers sitting round at Nottingham. Give them a brief of "whoever does the best conversion gets it in the codex" and let them run riot.
Seriously, the loss of characters has been bugging the hell out of me, but I could kind of see the twisted IP logic they were using (didn't agree with it, but could comprehend it). But no, they were just us around
Isn't daemonology sanctic already in the standard pack? Why on earth would they add another 7 cards unless they get another psychic discipline all to themselves?
Isn't daemonology sanctic already in the standard pack? Why on earth would they add another 7 cards unless they get another psychic discipline all to themselves?
Isn't daemonology sanctic already in the standard pack? Why on earth would they add another 7 cards unless they get another psychic discipline all to themselves?
There are some GK powers that still need to be adressed, like warpquake and the one for purgation squads.
EDIT: Never mind I read the description, looks like its just the Sanctic cards again.
Isn't daemonology sanctic already in the standard pack? Why on earth would they add another 7 cards unless they get another psychic discipline all to themselves?
There are some GK powers that still need to be adressed, like warpquake and the one for purgation squads.
Those look to have been removed since the psy cards only have 7 for Sanctic.
That Warriors of the Fang box... 32 models for $170. Which really isn't terrible compared to other games... until you realize that you need a lot more than 32 models to play 40k beyond trivial games.
That, in effect, is the problem. 32 models for $170 would be a reasonable price if that was a decent sized force to play the game.
Elmir wrote: Wow, just goes to show how empty this release really is... They are even repackaging 80% of the datacards to be "GK specific".
Jesus, I'm getting more let down by this release by the minute. One shouldn't feel this way when their primary army gets an update... :(
That's exactly how I feel. Told myself I'd stay positive, but no new models and a huge chunk of the army being removed.... and oh yeah buy these cards that you probably already have? The rules I this thing need to be awesome or I'm not gonna be playing much 40k
WayneTheGame wrote: That Warriors of the Fang box... 32 models for $170. Which really isn't terrible compared to other games... until you realize that you need a lot more than 32 models to play 40k beyond trivial games.
That, in effect, is the problem. 32 models for $170 would be a reasonable price if that was a decent sized force.
It is a decent sized force.
New box: 1x SM Commander, 1x Long Fangs, 1x Sky Claws, 2x Space Wolves Pack, 1x Drop Pod.
Wolf Lord - 150
Long Fangs - 150
Sky Claws - 150
2 GH packs - 400
Drop Pod - 35
It's an update, not a model release. It's happened before and will happen again. At least it is a physical book.
I think for some people it's the realization that this will be the only hardback release so far with literally zero new models and minimal new content. If the assumption is that the only new content is a warlord chart, some artifacts and point changes/removas, there's really no reason for a GK player to buy the new book. You can get everything from armybuilder, battlescribe or the like. Meh is all I have to say, nothing to get excited about.
WayneTheGame wrote: That Warriors of the Fang box... 32 models for $170. Which really isn't terrible compared to other games... until you realize that you need a lot more than 32 models to play 40k beyond trivial games.
That, in effect, is the problem. 32 models for $170 would be a reasonable price if that was a decent sized force.
It is a decent sized force.
New box: 1x SM Commander, 1x Long Fangs, 1x Sky Claws, 2x Space Wolves Pack, 1x Drop Pod.
Wolf Lord - 150
Long Fangs - 150
Sky Claws - 150 2 GH packs - 400
Drop Pod - 35
900 Points easy with mid-low estimates.
That one seems high to be honest. Aren't 5 of them 75pts?
Seriously, it's a big warning sign when the codex doesn't have an author but is instead attributed to the studio. All the other copy and paste hatchet jobs were listed the same way.
I had been assuming they'd at least throw some currently existing models into the book, Stormtalons, Drop Pods, whatever. It costs them literally nothing and fills out the thin codex.
I think we're getting exactly what was leaked in the Space Wolves army builder, and it's really baffling how anyone could be so clueless as to think this would be well received.
Also more formations for Space Wolves. Hopefully they are good ones. The Champions of Fenris ones seem to be lacking a bit after how good the Ork Supplement ones were.
That one seems high to be honest. Aren't 5 of them 75pts?
Oh, I think you're right. Duh. I was thinking of a 10 man. So yeah, 825-850 or so.
puma713 wrote:Wow, $6/model for Grey Knights Strike Squad.
They've been more than $6.00 a model for years. (6.50 in fact since 2011) And before that, they were all metal and probably at least that high. Your complaint is 3 years out of date.
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Lanlaorn wrote: Seriously, it's a big warning sign when the codex doesn't have an author but is instead attributed to the studio. All the other copy and paste hatchet jobs were listed the same way.
Every book has that listed as the author now for like the last year or two.
Why on earth would I want to buy a new book that takes away all my inquisition and my double demon-sword inquisitor (Just for the coolness! ) and Psybolt and SC's and trades them for a few points changes and gear updates?
puma713 wrote:Wow, $6/model for Grey Knights Strike Squad.
They've been more than $6.00 a model for years. (6.50 in fact since 2011) And before that, they were all metal and probably at least that high. Your complaint is 3 years out of date.
I'm just referring to models in general and not just GK. Although maybe I was indoctrinated to it back then. After being out of the game for a while and looking at these prices now, it's a little shocking.
The tactical box is $40USD now, I believe. Which does make any of the $33/5 boxes a rip off. But we already knew the value of the boxes have been in decline for some time now. And we have third parties who state that GW prices are highway robbery on the actual dollar cost per plastic sprue you get. The vehicles usually being the biggest culprits. But don't let logic cloud your mind.
I want to see the local response tomorrow of folks who don't follow this and what they think of a $50 book that does nothing but adds random and deletes units.
The Wolf boxes will be interesting to see. Are they rebranded vanilla kits or do they have wolf sprues in them?
More like salad tosser. Not even just brown nosing
As for the codex upgrading it so that the rules make sense for 7th I'm good with. Splitting the book is kinda crappy but to be honest I already expected it. Now Inquisition and Assassins are going to be properly spread around the imperium. GK is GK. I do wish for more units to choose from and new models. But I'm still kinda excited by the release. Not gonna lie.
Hulksmash wrote: More like salad tosser. Not even just brown nosing
As for the codex upgrading it so that the rules make sense for 7th I'm good with. Splitting the book is kinda crappy but to be honest I already expected it. Now Inquisition and Assassins are going to be properly spread around the imperium. GK is GK. I do wish for more units to choose from and new models. But I'm still kinda excited by the release. Not gonna lie.
Yea the writing was pretty much on the wall as soon as they made the Inq codex, not sure why this is surprising. Being dissapointed is fine, but not really surprising
OK, I have to sympathize with GK players though. If the codex was split apart and priced appropriately for the rules content I wouldn't understand the complaining.
But come on, that GK book is 50 bucks with, according to GW, two books worth of data pulled out and sold also at a premium. In order to maintain your collection you need double what other armies are paying. It does seem a bit unfortunate.
Imagine if when Eldar came out, no wraith based were in it and you needed to purchase Iyandin solely to get those units.
Updating a codex so the rules make sense for a new edition is the role of errata and FAQs, though.
A new codex should be new content, and while that certainly doesn't need to be new models (the best new content in the Eldar codex is the Wave Serpent's serpent shield, not the Wraith Knight!), actually removing most of the book without any replacements for those options seems particularly lazy.
Hulksmash wrote: More like salad tosser. Not even just brown nosing
As for the codex upgrading it so that the rules make sense for 7th I'm good with. Splitting the book is kinda crappy but to be honest I already expected it. Now Inquisition and Assassins are going to be properly spread around the imperium. GK is GK. I do wish for more units to choose from and new models. But I'm still kinda excited by the release. Not gonna lie.
See that is a great attitude and I would mirror this if it weren't for the costs involved. I saw the split too, but surely they could price books like this or the even worse offender Imperial Knights more realistically.
Hulksmash wrote: More like salad tosser. Not even just brown nosing
As for the codex upgrading it so that the rules make sense for 7th I'm good with. Splitting the book is kinda crappy but to be honest I already expected it. Now Inquisition and Assassins are going to be properly spread around the imperium. GK is GK. I do wish for more units to choose from and new models. But I'm still kinda excited by the release. Not gonna lie.
See that is a great attitude and I would mirror this if it weren't for the costs involved. I saw the split too, but surely they could price books like this or the even worse offender Imperial Knights more realistically.
Honestly I didn't mind the pricing originally. The quality on the books is awesome and I really like the actual product. Just like GW miniatures that is worth the cost for me. That being said that was before the release schedule tripled in speed just on codexes. With that happening the pricing pushed me out of getting every book like I used to. I pick them up from time to time with tournament winnings but honestly I've probably spent less on codexes on a yearly basis than I used to. They have gotten some cash out of me from dataslates and such but I'm spending less on rules than I used to. And I consider my random rule purchase similar to when I used to purchase whitedwarf for rules. Though sometimes more spread out.
Overall I'm excited because I've been playing GK's since 2nd Edition. So any release of their's I'm excited about. I get people's crankiness about the book itself but saying people are stupid for being excited about the update is a bit silly
Also I see the maelstrom card for the killing allies objective as a bit of a wink at the community. I think it's a joke in pretty good humor
See, that still is the sad thing... Normally I'd agree with you that getting a new codex is exciting.
But again, this is not so much a new codex, than it is an amputation of half the units, the inclusion of the faq, and some reshuffling of points and wargear. That's what I was saying in the deleted post prior to the mildly rude bit
while I'm trying to be optimistic I can't help but shake the feeling the new GK codex is ultimatly the first geniuine victem of the enhanced release schedule and GW's just not had the time to produce the token new unit every codex gets.
Am I the only one thinking this is a ripoff just from the point that it's the only hardback codex to date that will be released without new models/units to accompany it.
Why do people have a problem with the lack of new models all of a sudden?
Almost every release I see non stop complaints about how awful a new model looks combined with complaining about prices and it being "mandatory".
Now we get a release with no need to purchase anything new and people cant stop complaining about it.
Sure INQ and Assassin cost some extra if you plan on using them. Its the cost of like 1 box of minis, I will live. For everyone else who just wants to use one or the other it is actually nice for them. If you dont want to pay for them, then I am sure there will be no shortage of posts where you can get all the rules to use them.
H.B.M.C. wrote: And not releasing models for a Codex is weird.
Codex: AS and Inq agree. :(
Especially one that's getting a physical release. We've all unfortunately become inured to anemic, copy-paste hack jobs for dataslates and other electronic-only releases but this is a first, major faction that gets zero new models with a release.
agnosto wrote: Am I the only one thinking this is a ripoff just from the point that it's the only hardback codex to date that will be released without new models/units to accompany it.
I seriously doubt it. Take your perfectly functioning army and now split it into two books and a dataslate. It is a perfect, capitalistic idea. Now you must purchase two new things you didn't have to before to play the same army!
Wilson wrote: The only thing I'm surprised at is the lack of new assasin models. Huge pottential right there yet nothing :S
Not a usual hater!
I know right? But hey, plastic greater demons would sell like hotcakes as well, but they don't do market research.
I hate to say it but this is another symptom predicted in the GW financials thread. They keep this up and I am sure they bleed yet more customers old and new by the next report. I really want them to turn this around btw, before any one calls me a hater or doomsayer. Of the armies to be redone, this was the easiest one to add to IMHO and yet they didn't. Doesn't look good for BA, DE and Necron players if they also want new models.
BrianDavion wrote: while I'm trying to be optimistic I can't help but shake the feeling the new GK codex is ultimatly the first geniuine victem of the enhanced release schedule and GW's just not had the time to produce the token new unit every codex gets.
I disagree. I think the new codex is exactly what GW wanted to release, and they released it in the way they planned to for at least the last year. Consider, everyone noticed that Assassins were left out of the then new Inquisition Digital Codex. Some claimed this was yet another oversite by GW. I think now it's pretty safe to say they planned then that Assassins would be getting a Data Slate and that the forthcoming updated Grey Knights book would be Grey Knights only. As for no new models, again I think that was a deliberate plan. The entire Grey Knight Army is what, three years old? It's one of the very last of the 5th edition armies. Wile a new model would have been nice it was not needed. In fact I would not be surprised if the eventual Necron release was also done without a new model, after all, what do they really need? I don't know enough about the Dark Eldar to make any kind of prediction but I wouldn't expect a lot of new things for them either. Here's my real prediction though, after Necrons, DE, and Blood Angels are released, we will see Sisters finally updated as the last revamped army for 6/7th Edition. The complaining and rage will be epic.
Hulksmash wrote: More like salad tosser. Not even just brown nosing
As for the codex upgrading it so that the rules make sense for 7th I'm good with. Splitting the book is kinda crappy but to be honest I already expected it. Now Inquisition and Assassins are going to be properly spread around the imperium. GK is GK. I do wish for more units to choose from and new models. But I'm still kinda excited by the release. Not gonna lie.
See that is a great attitude and I would mirror this if it weren't for the costs involved. I saw the split too, but surely they could price books like this or the even worse offender Imperial Knights more realistically.
Honestly I didn't mind the pricing originally. The quality on the books is awesome and I really like the actual product. Just like GW miniatures that is worth the cost for me. That being said that was before the release schedule tripled in speed just on codexes. With that happening the pricing pushed me out of getting every book like I used to. I pick them up from time to time with tournament winnings but honestly I've probably spent less on codexes on a yearly basis than I used to. They have gotten some cash out of me from dataslates and such but I'm spending less on rules than I used to. And I consider my random rule purchase similar to when I used to purchase whitedwarf for rules. Though sometimes more spread out.
Overall I'm excited because I've been playing GK's since 2nd Edition. So any release of their's I'm excited about. I get people's crankiness about the book itself but saying people are stupid for being excited about the update is a bit silly
Also I see the maelstrom card for the killing allies objective as a bit of a wink at the community. I think it's a joke in pretty good humor
See I wouldn't mind the option for a high end 50 dollar book, but first of all the books would need to be high end ie. not recycled fluff and not ripe with grammatical and spelling errors. Second they really should have had an optional paperback cheapy for those who only want the rules to play. Hell, charge for a subscription to have downloadable access to pdf's for user to print off just the rules. This would actually increase sales and gropw the player base.
As of the ork and SW books, the quality has worsened. I don't like the new format at all, and using poor photo shoot pictures for entries to me kills the feel codexes once had. Now they feel more like a hard back white dwarf honestly.
As a dedicated GKs player I was thrilled they were getting an update. I was even thinking about getting the limited edition codex. But looking at everything we are losing, it's pretty depressing. I'll get the regular codex, and work with it, or sell them and just stick to 1 army.
iPad version of the GK codex was there yesterday, but has been removed from the online store today. I am curious how it gets placed back. Since it originally was $40, does that mean all prior purchases get the update free? Also will the new price by the $50 we are assuming for that edition?
It's really quite depressing reading through forums these days isn't it?
I'm almost starting to see why people are negative towards games workshop now as well.
Please GW, invest in a marketing team and learn your fanbase :(
Hell, I'd quit my job and come and do it for you if you like!
Usually I don't complain too much about the releases but on this occasion I'll say that if they are really taking out what I am hearing then the GK will be reduced to a very slight variant on SM but with nowhere near as many units. I don't want OP I am not going to spit out my dummy over 'nerfing' BUT I do want GK (of whom I have over 10,000 points) to be a proper army with a sound choice of units. If the rumours are right then it will be reduced to a rump of less units than any other army except Sisters. There will only be two types of troop and a tiny selection of vehicles. It is critical that they be allowed to freely ally with assassins and inquisition to allow some variety or given access to a wider range of units and vehicles. I don't understand the logic either in reboxing the standard LR as a Grey Knight's LR. Why waste the money on producing the boxes when the existing ones are the same unit or have I missed something?
I don't care what GW says. I'd say that most players don't even know the Inquisition have a Codex, and the Sisters haven't had their own book since 2nd Ed.
H.B.M.C. wrote: I don't care what GW says. I'd say that most players don't even know the Inquisition have a Codex, and the Sisters haven't had their own book since 2nd Ed.
Fair enough. Although I've been able to play them out of their own book/list for 5 editions which is a lot more than a lot of other armies can claim.
Isengard wrote: Usually I don't complain too much about the releases but on this occasion I'll say that if they are really taking out what I am hearing then the GK will be reduced to a very slight variant on SM but with nowhere near as many units. I don't want OP I am not going to spit out my dummy over 'nerfing' BUT I do want GK (of whom I have over 10,000 points) to be a proper army with a sound choice of units. If the rumours are right then it will be reduced to a rump of less units than any other army except Sisters. There will only be two types of troop and a tiny selection of vehicles. It is critical that they be allowed to freely ally with assassins and inquisition to allow some variety or given access to a wider range of units and vehicles. I don't understand the logic either in reboxing the standard LR as a Grey Knight's LR. Why waste the money on producing the boxes when the existing ones are the same unit or have I missed something?
I disagree yeah it would be nice to get additional units but sometimes less is better and in this case I think it plays into the grey knight fluff well. I see them as like an ancient order not really moving foreword like other chapters but depending on the strength of their will to complete their tasks( hint hint GW bring back true grit). The only new unit I wouldn't mind is some sort of bike unit to play into the knights on horseback idea. Honestly what I REALLY want is storm shields give me those with my paladins and maybe more unique weaponry like halberds and such focusing on martial skill and I will be happy.
I don't need new models. The current ones are all good.
Don't care about losing inq or assassins. Neither is part of GK. A GK army shouldn't be all henchmen. If you're too cheap to buy the rules then use a torrent and stop whining.
Some new war gear, point tweaks, and hopefully cool warlord traits and formations will make things fun and tweak the game play. Lots of awesome potential
the most unusal thing to me about it is, GW knows that when a new codex release comes out, generally thats a chance to push people to make some new purchases, as old time players will sudden;y want to add the new shiny to their army. (especially if it fills a new and intreasting niche) so GW's useally come out with new units even if it wasn't exactly nesscary. a good example is SM centurions, not exactly a nesscary unit, but they're fun and fill an intreasting role (the "SOOO MUCH DAKKA!" role )I and a lot of others with SM armies bought it, but you hardly NEED the things.
C:GK isn't going to have any of this, so it is definatly strange. the best I can figure is GW cynically knows a lotta GK lists are Inq heavy so GK players will mostly have to buy GKs to replace what they lost, or buy the Inq codex and assasins dataslate instead.
Mm and cheaper dread Knights. If they had the teleporter and sword and we're cheaper they'd be so rad. Psybolt is my one important thing. The command traits are sweet. Hoping the champion stances are gnarly too
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I just feel like this whole release pattern is out dated. In contrast, I've spent the day lurking the new PP releases which got pushed to my phone halfway through the work day so I could read up on the new casters. PP could have easily said "no rules leaks!" on their forums, but they don't care. They know that getting people talking about how to effectively used their new models gets people interested and buying.
I know I'm ready to drop money on a Brad pre-order + a Lord of Feast and a Rotterhorn for my Una to play a list for him. And I'm eyeing eAbby super fierce.
Instead, here, we get drip fed rumors from Grey Knights, and all the bad ones first that are just turning people off left and right. A good release would have been keeping the Inq and Assassins in the book, making GKs have a bonus of not needing them as separate detachments given their close work with them and just keeping Inquisition a separate release for everyone else along with the dataslate. It's win-win, then. GK players of all types keep their armies and other Imperium folks could buy their Assassins and Inquisitors at a much cheaper rate than $50 for a new hardcover.
But no, GW refuses to use logic and sense. I paid $60 for all the rules for Warmachine forever (or at least Mk2?). For the same cost as the Space Marine book, I'm always apart of the zeitgeist of a new release which makes me wanna go grab minis, which is the real bread and butter.
The GK release is already a stinker for invalidating armies and making people pay more. Now it's a case of people either saying "Nuh-uh, it's not bad for me, because I'm a True GW Scotsman™ " or "Well, what do we have left to work with." Argue over the GKs themselves as much you want, but this is bad business.
I don't play Warmahordes, so I'm curious - how many times has PP invalidated parts of an army in an update?
Mk1 to Mk2? Probably a bit to a lot, but the game changed a great deal. During Mk2, or at least from my point of view, never. The basic casters released at the start of Mk2 are still the same casters now and are still considered staple parts of good armies. My Cryx can still cause buttholes to pucker if I drop pDenegrah (the basic HQ that comes in the starter box).
Their updates never change models. Much like other games such as Malifaux and to an extent, Infinity (limited knowledge on the latter). As they should, if they make a model too underpowered or underdeveloped, they will release a unit attachment, solo, or caster to help benefit that unit or play style, but in a controlled fashion. There is no points escalation in Games Workshop games. There are some units that are considered stinkers, but that's not quite like "Mandrake" or "Pyrovore" bad. And all it takes is a UA or Solo and they could be turned around if that's in the game's design.
I'm looking forward to the codex. Everyone cried doom and gloom when Tyranids got their codex and I've done just fine with it. I've won 5/6 games I've played with them.
I will be sad to see Psybolts go, but that means I'll just have to develop a new strategy.
I already have the Codex: =][=, so that doesn't bother me in the least.
I also really like the idea of the no witnesses thing. I've always wanted to be able to do that.
BrianDavion wrote: in fairness armies are always to one degree or another invalidated with a new release but yeah this is a pretty big one,
And I'm saying that's bad business. Games should grow and your new stuff should be value add, not take away.
Tyranids lost a complete play style. IG lost a ton of flavorful characters and became "Codex:Cadia" for all intents and purposes. Orks lost force organization changes and units. Spaces Wolves lost them, too, and gained fluff crippling, mind-numbing units. Grey Knights are now losing characters and, what, 9 or so other units? (Inquisitors, Coteaz, Valeria, Karamazov, Warbands, Chimeras, 4 Assassins... missing something?). That's a hell of a bummer of a release. And no, offering to pay more to get it all back is absolutely dumb idea.
Codex: Cadia is not what the IG is. Those characters were almost never taken, in my experience. I never once saw them used outside of anecdotal stuff here on Dakka.
BrianDavion wrote: in fairness armies are always to one degree or another invalidated with a new release but yeah this is a pretty big one,
And I'm saying that's bad business. Games should grow and your new stuff should be value add, not take away.
Tyranids lost a complete play style. IG lost a ton of flavorful characters and became "Codex:Cadia" for all intents and purposes. Orks lost force organization changes and units. Spaces Wolves lost them, too, and gained fluff crippling, mind-numbing units. Grey Knights are now losing characters and, what, 9 or so other units? (Inquisitors, Coteaz, Valeria, Karamazov, Warbands, Chimeras, 4 Assassins... missing something?). That's a hell of a bummer of a release. And no, offering to pay more to get it all back is absolutely dumb idea.
actually more along the lines of "Codex: Cadia and Catachans" but I get your point.
I don't disagree that removing stuff is a bad thing. cause it is. (I tend to in the case of 'nids at least more hold it against GW not releasing minis of whats in a codex. that was dumb.)
so yeah in this case GKs are proably the worst off. even if you credit warbands as a single type of unit with multiple differnt weays to build it. even if you ignore Valeria (no mini so her going was to be expected) GKs still lose a fair bit.
Kanluwen wrote: Codex: Cadia is not what the IG is. Those characters were almost never taken, in my experience. I never once saw them used outside of anecdotal stuff here on Dakka.
Funnily enough, I've played against multiple armies that included Chenkov... and have never to date seen Creed on the table.
And pretty much every Guard army I played against in 5th edition included Marbo.
raoiley wrote: I don't need new models. The current ones are all good.
Don't care about losing inq or assassins. Neither is part of GK. A GK army shouldn't be all henchmen. If you're too cheap to buy the rules then use a torrent and stop whining.
Some new war gear, point tweaks, and hopefully cool warlord traits and formations will make things fun and tweak the game play. Lots of awesome potential
Agree 100 percent. Im pretty excited to see what the relics do.
raoiley wrote: I don't need new models. The current ones are all good. Don't care about losing inq or assassins. Neither is part of GK. A GK army shouldn't be all henchmen. If you're too cheap to buy the rules then use a torrent and stop whining.
Some new war gear, point tweaks, and hopefully cool warlord traits and formations will make things fun and tweak the game play. Lots of awesome potential
Agree 100 percent. Im pretty excited to see what the relics do.
"No True GW Scotsman™ would ever run a GK army different from me and should thus be punished to buy $100 worth of rules for what was previously $33!"
The argument, made short and concise. Meaning it's a bad argument because it's entirely based on a fallacy and supports bad business. Remember, same company that said buying is the hobby. In court.
Kanluwen wrote: Codex: Cadia is not what the IG is. Those characters were almost never taken, in my experience. I never once saw them used outside of anecdotal stuff here on Dakka.
Funnily enough, I've played against multiple armies that included Chenkov... and have never to date seen Creed on the table.
And pretty much every Guard army I played against in 5th edition included Marbo.
I saw Creed a great deal. I know specifically one individual making a full custom "Chenkov" Russian style army because he loved the character. He was sculpting long coats on all his Cadians to match the theme. Great move for him, right? I sold my allied detachment because I could no long field Marbo. He was the literal epitome of forging narratives and always a source of "the lulz."
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hotsauceman1 wrote: How is the vindicare? I always wanted to use one for potent Anti-tank. If they keep it much the same i might get one
He hits reliably and the statistical average, as it stands, is "17" (meaning 3 + 4d6 avg = pen result of 17) and he's Ap1. I've had plenty of games where you smoke or cripple a land raider first turn, but also had plenty of games where my 145pt snowflake eats a krak missile and that's that.
raoiley wrote: I don't need new models. The current ones are all good.
Don't care about losing inq or assassins. Neither is part of GK. A GK army shouldn't be all henchmen. If you're too cheap to buy the rules then use a torrent and stop whining.
Some new war gear, point tweaks, and hopefully cool warlord traits and formations will make things fun and tweak the game play. Lots of awesome potential
Agree 100 percent. Im pretty excited to see what the relics do.
"No True GW Scotsman™ would ever run a GK army different from me and should thus be punished to buy $100 worth of rules for what was previously $33!"
The argument, made short and concise. Meaning it's a bad argument because it's entirely based on a fallacy and supports bad business. Remember, same company that said buying is the hobby. In court.
Can you stop pissing in their cheerios please? You got a serious case of "Stop liking what I dont like" going on
Sorry people being excited offends you so
Though go ahead propping your scotsman up with your strawman. A strawscotsman I believe
He hits reliably and the statistical average, as it stands, is "17" (meaning 3 + 4d6 avg = pen result of 17) and he's Ap1. I've had plenty of games where you smoke or cripple a land raider first turn, but also had plenty of games where my 145pt snowflake eats a krak missile and that's that.
It's an average of 18 now with the new 7th sniper rules isn't it?
Can you stop pissing in their cheerios please? You got a serious case of "Stop liking what I dont like" going on
Sorry people being excited offends you so
Yes, as soon as they stop saying "You were doing it wrong," or to that effect. Or use a sense of rationality to see taking 1, putting it into 3 parts, and tripling the price is asinine. Because it is. It's not about people being excited. It's people being excited about being taken while what I'm happy about is being ruined and being told "I was doing it wrong." And then further explanation that my meta only allows 2 sources because of the terrible way the game is written. So why don't you try to have some empathy. Because if this kind of crap continues, you won't be getting new releases from Games Workshop.
It's not like people hate 40k. It's that Games Workshop drives you away if stop allowing them to firmly put wool over your eyes. I have committed no logical fallacy. The value of the release has gone down objectively. My army is invalidated. My fun, as it was, is ruined.
He hits reliably and the statistical average, as it stands, is "17" (meaning 3 + 4d6 avg = pen result of 17) and he's Ap1. I've had plenty of games where you smoke or cripple a land raider first turn, but also had plenty of games where my 145pt snowflake eats a krak missile and that's that.
It's an average of 18 now with the new 7th sniper rules isn't it?
Could very well be. I do not know how the sniper rules changed for 6E to 7E. That number is without accounting for rending, which the old rifle could still rend on 6s which make the average closer to a 20 usually. Was hilarious to get like a 22 armor pen roll.
Can you stop pissing in their cheerios please? You got a serious case of "Stop liking what I dont like" going on
Sorry people being excited offends you so
Yes, as soon as they stop saying "You were doing it wrong," or to that effect. Or use a sense of rationality to see taking 1, putting it into 3 parts, and tripling the price is asinine. Because it is. It's not about people being excited. It's people being excited about being taken while what I'm happy about is being ruined and being told "I was doing it wrong." And then further explanation that my meta only allows 2 sources because of the terrible way the game is written. So why don't you try to have some empathy. Because if this kind of crap continues, you won't be getting new releases from Games Workshop.
It's not like people hate 40k. It's that Games Workshop drives you away if stop allowing them to firmly put wool over your eyes.
Clearly the ignorant boobs dont deserve the pleasure of 40k and the 'Truth'
Or it could be that not everyone things or agrees with the things you do. But do continue talking down to people, its sure to garner more support for your position
Clearly the ignorant boobs dont deserve the pleasure of 40k and the 'Truth'
Or it could be that not everyone things or agrees with the things you do. But do continue talking down to people, its sure to garner more support for your position
If you choose to not listen or believe in facts, then that's on you. Don't be mad at people pointing them out. Your opinion or disagreement with facts does not change them. I'm not talking down to anyone. I was, however, pointing out a fallacy. If they were "supposed to be played" a certain way, then GW would have never released that book. It's the same nonsense that always divides the 40k community; poor rules and poor community support. And now you get the joy of paying triple for it.
Or are you going to say a person with a full Mordrak themed force is doing it wrong or not a true GK army? A spore pod Tyranids list? A Wolf Guard terminator drop pod list? Wazdakka Ork army? Because I'm sure all those people would beg to differ.
c0j1r0 wrote: Everyone cried doom and gloom when Tyranids got their codex...
And they were right to. The book is objectively worse than its predecessor, a book GW acknowledged as flawed, and it's the second time Cruddace has messed up 'Nids.
insaniak wrote: So... a $30 price rise for an 'update' that essentially just removes a bunch of stuff from the previous codex.
Yeah, this really is releasing an hard-backed errata for a high price. This is even more of a cynical short-term cash grap than the damned 1-unit Knight Codex. That was at least joined by a cool model.
While I have chosen to face to codex's release, as it is, with a good attitude, I will be incredibly sad to see Mordrak go.
I have a full unit of ghosts that are some of my favorite miniatures I've painted (I like to think I did a very fine job on them) and he has been my main HQ for basically the entirety of the 5th ed's codex lifespan. I'd considered repainting them as living Grey Knights, but after looking at them again, I decided to just say screw it, they're staying Ghosts.
Who knows, maybe there will be a relic that still enables the ghosts to be used (though i seriously doubt it). But I'll keep playing Grey Knights and try to enjoy it as best I can.
c0j1r0 wrote: While I have chosen to face to codex's release, as it is, with a good attitude, I will be incredibly sad to see Mordrak go.
I have a full unit of ghosts that are some of my favorite miniatures I've painted (I like to think I did a very fine job on them) and he has been my main HQ for basically the entirety of the 5th ed's codex lifespan. I'd considered repainting them as living Grey Knights, but after looking at them again, I decided to just say screw it, they're staying Ghosts.
Who knows, maybe there will be a relic that still enables the ghosts to be used (though i seriously doubt it). But I'll keep playing Grey Knights and try to enjoy it as best I can.
I know how ya feel; got a unit of ghost knights my self; I also have to re-evaluate my shunt punch list
I can honestly see both sides of the argument here. It's pretty crappy that you have to pay extra to use models you already have. I just got back from 40k night at my FLGS and we were all talking about it (that is after I got my teeth kicked down my throat by an Eldar/IG list but I digress lol). To me I don't even really need new models. They would be nice but not something I'll be angry about if they aren't present. To me its how slim the codex is going to be. If they reworked how some of the weapons worked and simply added new unit entries in a way that wasn't "oh these strikes squads are just like strike squads but they get teleporters! oooooo" I'm really curious as to what the psilencer is going to be like. I really hope they don't leave it as it is.
For the record, I don't need new models either. I will hope the PA guys get better to justify their points cost, but then that means I'm buying the Dreamforge minis.
Spoiler:
Too good and the price is right. It's going to be curious how the hammer and sword change on the dreadknights, too. They could stay the same and just be cheaper, that'd be fine by me. That would mean (130 base + 30 PT + 20 Hv Inc + 10 Sword) 190pt Dread Knights that used to be 265. That feels about right in the world of Riptides and Wraithknights. A fifth wound be just fine, too, but I doubt it happens.
korghan wrote: I can honestly see both sides of the argument here. It's pretty crappy that you have to pay extra to use models you already have. I just got back from 40k night at my FLGS and we were all talking about it (that is after I got my teeth kicked down my throat by an Eldar/IG list but I digress lol). To me I don't even really need new models. They would be nice but not something I'll be angry about if they aren't present. To me its how slim the codex is going to be. If they reworked how some of the weapons worked and simply added new unit entries in a way that wasn't "oh these strikes squads are just like strike squads but they get teleporters! oooooo" I'm really curious as to what the psilencer is going to be like. I really hope they don't leave it as it is.
I've bolded the point I think is understated.
We have to buy a new codex and LOSE the models we have already, if we used any =][= in our last army setup.
THEN we have to buy 2 new books/dataslates to use them again.
Mixed feeling all around. Hoping they will make things better and more clear for the new edition. But pretty unhappy with the gutting of inquisition. If the codex was say $20($10 digital) I'd be OK with it, because it will mostly be nothing new and just a FAQ update. I know relics are a thing but they are not physicaly new pieces and just invisible upgrades players can model if they choose to. They are just a few extra words written in the book that won't even take a full page. Its doesn't feel like a NEW codex. For example; but not that it was the best codex ever but the new Chaos Space Marine Dex actually felt like a new book with new substance.
Well, I think a full GK army will hardly be competitive as they have no cheap point fillers such has Henchmen.
If you want a decent GK force, you will need an ally detachment from AM or a Marine army (Grey Hunters, vanilla Marines, or Dark Angels).
wuestenfux wrote: Well, I think a full GK army will hardly be competitive as they have no cheap point fillers such has Henchmen.
If you want a decent GK force, you will need an ally detachment from AM or a Marine army (Grey Hunters, vanilla Marines, or Dark Angels).
See, that's the main issue here. They most likely won't be 'competitive' due to the removal of Inq. If people happen to be competitive or tournament players then GK won't be of much use to them.
On the other hand, I'm really looking forward to this release. I'm not bothered about tournaments and the like so for me, new rules, compatibility with 7th and cheaper units means I can plonk more actual GK down on the table and I'm very pleased about that. Termies being only 165 for a squad is great - I'll probably invest in another couple of boxes. And cheaper DKs means I'll probably buy another one of those too. Sure, I'll have a bit of a hybrid list, I won't win game after game but I'll enjoy playing a cool looking list and not have to watch people roll their eyes at me when I put down the new OP army on the table. I can't wait for the new codex.
TheKbob wrote: They blew their modeling load on the new Nagash model if you check the Fantasy thread, BTW. Thing looks massive. Like maybe stare a Wraithknight big.
I cannot fathom how much they'll ask for him/it.
Haha it is no way that big.
It's probably the same size as a a bone giant if that.
wuestenfux wrote: Well, I think a full GK army will hardly be competitive as they have no cheap point fillers such has Henchmen.
If you want a decent GK force, you will need an ally detachment from AM or a Marine army (Grey Hunters, vanilla Marines, or Dark Angels).
See, that's the main issue here. They most likely won't be 'competitive' due to the removal of Inq. If people happen to be competitive or tournament players then GK won't be of much use to them.
On the other hand, I'm really looking forward to this release. I'm not bothered about tournaments and the like so for me, new rules, compatibility with 7th and cheaper units means I can plonk more actual GK down on the table and I'm very pleased about that. Termies being only 165 for a squad is great - I'll probably invest in another couple of boxes. And cheaper DKs means I'll probably buy another one of those too. Sure, I'll have a bit of a hybrid list, I won't win game after game but I'll enjoy playing a cool looking list and not have to watch people roll their eyes at me when I put down the new OP army on the table. I can't wait for the new codex.
Indeed, GK will not be super competitive in the near future but nowhere nearly useless.
For scoring purposes one could add a vanilla Librarian and two vanilla Marine units in transports.
It is pretty sucky to "have to pay extra to use models you already have" but isn't that pretty much what every edition change does?
Sure it is worse here for the GKs specifically are they don't seem to have gotten anything out of the deal just yet.
However, if it means access to Assassin's for other forces, well I can live with it (for transparency my entire GKWIP force was more or less moved into C:=][= any way so that is my bias.)
TheKbob wrote: Or use a sense of rationality to see taking 1, putting it into 3 parts, and tripling the price is asinine. Because it is. It's not about people being excited. It's people being excited about being taken while what I'm happy about is being ruined and being told "I was doing it wrong." And then further explanation that my meta only allows 2 sources because of the terrible way the game is written. So why don't you try to have some empathy. Because if this kind of crap continues, you won't be getting new releases from Games Workshop.
The Price increase is bad. Price increases are always disappointing. Removing most of the Inquisition and Assassins from the GK codex is not such a bad thing.
2/3 of the Inquisition elements were in the last GK book not because they fit with the army at all, but because there was nowhere else to put them.
Assassins started out as their own little detachment in 2nd, and then again in 3rd they got a booklet with assassin rules. Sisters had their own codex in 2nd, and Grey Knights were part of the big book in second. Then they decided to add the Inquisition to the game in third edition. Ordo Malleus was added to the Grey Knights, Ordo Hereticus to the Sisters, and they were goin to do Ordo Xenos and Deathwatch but never got to it. Additionally, instead of remaining separate, the assassins were lumped in to help fill out the Daemonhunters and Witchhunters lists somewhat (see Orbiral strikes as a HS choice to also fill out the list.
They lasted a while, until 5th edition. Sisters didn't have plans for a new book or models any time soon, so when GK got a new set of plastic models and kits, Ordo Hereticus was lumped into the GK book, and Ordo Xenos so they were not left out. Not because they fit the GK at all, but because they had nowhere else to go for updated rules. Thanks to how awesome the rules for Coteaz were, many K builds took advantage of extremely cheap henchmen troops to fill out the required slots, which was a valid build to make an Inq force, but they were replacing GK units in GK lists because they were so much more points efficient. See the problem with Cultists crowding out actual Chaos Marines in the CSM book as the default troop choice.
I will miss the Ordo Malleus Inquisitor in the GK book. But Ordo Xenos and Hereticus never should have been there in the first place, and Assassins work better fluffwise and rules-wise as their own support detachment than part of a proper army. Same with the Inquisition really.
TLDR: Having to pay for Assassins and Inquisition rules separate from GK, bad. Inquisition and Assassin rules actually being separate entities from the GK book, good.
TheKbob wrote: Or use a sense of rationality to see taking 1, putting it into 3 parts, and tripling the price is asinine. Because it is. It's not about people being excited. It's people being excited about being taken while what I'm happy about is being ruined and being told "I was doing it wrong." And then further explanation that my meta only allows 2 sources because of the terrible way the game is written. So why don't you try to have some empathy. Because if this kind of crap continues, you won't be getting new releases from Games Workshop.
The Price increase is bad. Price increases are always disappointing. Removing most of the Inquisition and Assassins from the GK codex is not such a bad thing.
2/3 of the Inquisition elements were in the last GK book not because they fit with the army at all, but because there was nowhere else to put them.
Assassins started out as their own little detachment in 2nd, and then again in 3rd they got a booklet with assassin rules. Sisters had their own codex in 2nd, and Grey Knights were part of the big book in second. Then they decided to add the Inquisition to the game in third edition. Ordo Malleus was added to the Grey Knights, Ordo Hereticus to the Sisters, and they were goin to do Ordo Xenos and Deathwatch but never got to it. Additionally, instead of remaining separate, the assassins were lumped in to help fill out the Daemonhunters and Witchhunters lists somewhat (see Orbiral strikes as a HS choice to also fill out the list.
They lasted a while, until 5th edition. Sisters didn't have plans for a new book or models any time soon, so when GK got a new set of plastic models and kits, Ordo Hereticus was lumped into the GK book, and Ordo Xenos so they were not left out. Not because they fit the GK at all, but because they had nowhere else to go for updated rules. Thanks to how awesome the rules for Coteaz were, many K builds took advantage of extremely cheap henchmen troops to fill out the required slots, which was a valid build to make an Inq force, but they were replacing GK units in GK lists because they were so much more points efficient. See the problem with Cultists crowding out actual Chaos Marines in the CSM book as the default troop choice.
I will miss the Ordo Malleus Inquisitor in the GK book. But Ordo Xenos and Hereticus never should have been there in the first place, and Assassins work better fluffwise and rules-wise as their own support detachment than part of a proper army. Same with the Inquisition really.
TLDR: Having to pay for Assassins and Inquisition rules separate from GK, bad. Inquisition and Assassin rules actually being separate entities from the GK book, good.
Mhmm I agree completely; but why the HELL COULDN'T THEY JUST LEAVE IT IN THE CODEX? BOOM everyone wins; except GW moneywise. Dataslates for everyone else, incodex for old players.
Vain wrote: It is pretty sucky to "have to pay extra to use models you already have" but isn't that pretty much what every edition change does?
Sure it is worse here for the GKs specifically are they don't seem to have gotten anything out of the deal just yet.
However, if it means access to Assassin's for other forces, well I can live with it (for transparency my entire GKWIP force was more or less moved into C:=][= any way so that is my bias.)
There's a huge difference between buying a codex to still use the models you have versus having to buy several codexes/dataslates to be able to continue using those models.
It's a money grab... plain and simple.
Not getting any new models is just rubbing salt in the wound on top of that. Now imagine this hadn't been a little sidearmy of yours, but something you've worked on for over a decade and it's the second time GW starts messing bigtime with the composition of the army. I already wrote half an essay on that on p28 or something, so I'm not going to repeat it here... but it's pretty atrocious (same goes for AS players btw...)
Vain wrote: It is pretty sucky to "have to pay extra to use models you already have" but isn't that pretty much what every edition change does?
Sure it is worse here for the GKs specifically are they don't seem to have gotten anything out of the deal just yet.
However, if it means access to Assassin's for other forces, well I can live with it (for transparency my entire GKWIP force was more or less moved into C:=][= any way so that is my bias.)
There's a huge difference between buying a codex to still use the models you have versus having to buy several codexes/dataslates to be able to continue using those models.
It's a money grab... plain and simple.
Not getting any new models is just rubbing salt in the wound on top of that. Now imagine this hadn't been a little sidearmy of yours, but something you've worked on for over a decade and it's the second time GW starts messing bigtime with the composition of the army. I already wrote half an essay on that on p28 or something, so I'm not going to repeat it here... but it's pretty atrocious (same goes for AS players btw...)
You can also see it the other way round. No new models mean no spending for an already existing GK army, just for the codex. This is a wallet friendly policy. Thank you GW.
They lasted a while, until 5th edition. Sisters didn't have plans for a new book or models any time soon, so when GK got a new set of plastic models and kits, Ordo Hereticus was lumped into the GK book, and Ordo Xenos so they were not left out. Not because they fit the GK at all, but because they had nowhere else to go for updated rules. Thanks to how awesome the rules for Coteaz were, many K builds took advantage of extremely cheap henchmen troops to fill out the required slots, which was a valid build to make an Inq force, but they were replacing GK units in GK lists because they were so much more points efficient. See the problem with Cultists crowding out actual Chaos Marines in the CSM book as the default troop choice.
I will miss the Ordo Malleus Inquisitor in the GK book. But Ordo Xenos and Hereticus never should have been there in the first place, and Assassins work better fluffwise and rules-wise as their own support detachment than part of a proper army. Same with the Inquisition really.
TLDR: Having to pay for Assassins and Inquisition rules separate from GK, bad. Inquisition and Assassin rules actually being separate entities from the GK book, good.
Ooooow there... you missed one point on coteaz ... When that book was released in 5th, he was the only way to keep using any inducted troops OR inquisitorial stormtroopers from your previous army. Don't forget that scrapping those options was already the first massacre they pulled on codex :daemonhunters in terms of amputating things from the list.
And while I don't hate the fact at all that many imperial armies get acces to assassins and inquisitors, I really do hate the way things have gone. Again, I just want to repeat this point....
In order for a veteran player to keep playing with all the models he's potentially had since day 1 that the inquisitorial armies were released (daemonhunters and witchhunters, all the entries were in one neat book) he'd now need:
Codex: Grey knights OR Codex adepta Sororitas
Codex: Astra militarum
Codex: inquisition
Codex: Space marines
Dataslates: Assassins
That's pretty awful when you think that used to be 1 book, right?
Just imagine what the reaction would be if they just cut ALL stormtroopers from Codex: Astra militarum and only gave you acces to them if you bought Codex: militarum tempestus. It would make sense from a fluff point of view, it would be awesome that every imperial army could acces stormtroopers now if wanted. And yet many IG would have their jimmies rustled if they had to buy both books just to continue with their models. Well, this is EXACTLY what happened to GK.
Just like they left the stormtroopers in codex: AM, they could have just as well kept the ordo malleus in the codex. Both are technically different organisations, but with incredibly close ties. Assassins only through dataslates is just fine, the other ordos through codex: Inquisition would be fine as well...
I'd not have minded if they kept the Ordos Malleus Inqusitors in, with some restrictions. namely no deamon swords or deamon hosts. the idea of Inqusitors who used those things fighting along side GKs is frankly, silly.
What I'd LOVE to see GW do (and they won't b ut it'd be great) is to do a ebook package deal. get Codex: GK, Codex: Inq and Dataslate Assasins for I dunno a package deal of 75ish bucks? it'd be a bit of a discount from what I can tell, and thus at least make life a little easier on GK players who DO need all 3 sources
You know what GW could have done which would have satisfied 99% of GK players, still allowed them to sell Assassins and Inquisition rules to loads of players, AND earned them a massive goodwill boost from the whole community?
Include a voucher with the first print run of the new GK 'dex that could be redeemed for free epub/mobi versions of the digital Inquisition 'dex and Assassins dataslate.
It's a self-limiting offer so it wouldn't impact their sales long-term, it would show they acknowledge the negative aspects of the change for existing players and value them enough to make a gesture to mitigate that, and the hardback books are so pricey they wouldn't have to worry about non-GK players buying the GK book to get "free" extras to use with other armies.
But of course, they would never do something like that, because their main motivation for these kinds of changes is to wring the maximum possible cash out of their ever-declining customer base, so they'd rather bet that enough GK players with hybrid forces will suck up the cost and buy all three to make up for those that will just walk away, than enact a policy that might have a small short-term cost but could help retain customers in the medium-term.
BrianDavion wrote: I'd not have minded if they kept the Ordos Malleus Inqusitors in, with some restrictions. namely no deamon swords or deamon hosts. the idea of Inqusitors who used those things fighting along side GKs is frankly, silly.
What I'd LOVE to see GW do (and they won't b ut it'd be great) is to do a ebook package deal. get Codex: GK, Codex: Inq and Dataslate Assasins for I dunno a package deal of 75ish bucks? it'd be a bit of a discount from what I can tell, and thus at least make life a little easier on GK players who DO need all 3 sources
Why no Daemon Swords or Daemonhosts? Inquisitors can be radical and the GK don't care enough to kill him for using a Daemon Sword to fight Chaos. They are primarily Daemon hunters. Everything else is secondary. If the Inq started twitching and acting suspicious, the GK would of course slay him without question, and they would always keep an eye on him, but without a reason to stop the Inq using the stuff they won't.
The epub deal sounds exactly what I was thinking.
For all the people who are purely Inq, why you so mad? All you need is the Inq Codex? I get it if you need 2 sources (I do now) but only 1? What's the issue?
Deadshot wrote: For all the people who are purely Inq, why you so mad? All you need is the Inq Codex? I get it if you need 2 sources (I do now) but only 1? What's the issue?
They have to moan about something, whether it makes any sense or not is irrelevant.
Deadshot wrote: Why no Daemon Swords or Daemonhosts? Inquisitors can be radical and the GK don't care enough to kill him for using a Daemon Sword to fight Chaos.
In the previous codex, you couldn't have Grey Knights in the same force as a Radical Inquisitor.
BrianDavion wrote: I'd not have minded if they kept the Ordos Malleus Inqusitors in, with some restrictions. namely no deamon swords or deamon hosts. the idea of Inqusitors who used those things fighting along side GKs is frankly, silly.
What I'd LOVE to see GW do (and they won't b ut it'd be great) is to do a ebook package deal. get Codex: GK, Codex: Inq and Dataslate Assasins for I dunno a package deal of 75ish bucks? it'd be a bit of a discount from what I can tell, and thus at least make life a little easier on GK players who DO need all 3 sources
Why no Daemon Swords or Daemonhosts? Inquisitors can be radical and the GK don't care enough to kill him for using a Daemon Sword to fight Chaos. They are primarily Daemon hunters. Everything else is secondary. If the Inq started twitching and acting suspicious, the GK would of course slay him without question, and they would always keep an eye on him, but without a reason to stop the Inq using the stuff they won't.
The epub deal sounds exactly what I was thinking.
For all the people who are purely Inq, why you so mad? All you need is the Inq Codex? I get it if you need 2 sources (I do now) but only 1? What's the issue?
Inquisition lists relied somewhat heavily on the psychic dice generated by the GK psychic pilots of Razorbacks. That and cheap Obj. Sec units. Now they get neither.
Medium of Death wrote: I definitely think the Grey Knights would have a problem with using anything Daemonic in their presence.
It kind of dilutes their character to say that they are OK with it now and then. Silly GW.
Crowe uses a daemonsword so...? The Grey Knights may be more pragmatic than you think, and this is ignoring crazy stupid fluff pieces like the Sisters of Battle blood bs.
I imagine as long as the Radical Inquisitor is focused on killing demons, the policy is to turn a blind eye to his fighting fire with fire tactics.
Medium of Death wrote: I definitely think the Grey Knights would have a problem with using anything Daemonic in their presence.
It kind of dilutes their character to say that they are OK with it now and then. Silly GW.
Crowe uses a daemonsword so...? The Grey Knights may be more pragmatic than you think, and this is ignoring crazy stupid fluff pieces like the Sisters of Battle blood bs.
I imagine as long as the Radical Inquisitor is focused on killing demons, the policy is to turn a blind eye to his fighting fire with fire tactics.
This is what I mean. The 5th Ed codex goes on and on about pragmatism. They'll do what's necessary. Even the SoB blood was necessary at the time.
BrianDavion wrote: I'd not have minded if they kept the Ordos Malleus Inqusitors in, with some restrictions. namely no deamon swords or deamon hosts. the idea of Inqusitors who used those things fighting along side GKs is frankly, silly.
What I'd LOVE to see GW do (and they won't b ut it'd be great) is to do a ebook package deal. get Codex: GK, Codex: Inq and Dataslate Assasins for I dunno a package deal of 75ish bucks? it'd be a bit of a discount from what I can tell, and thus at least make life a little easier on GK players who DO need all 3 sources
Why no Daemon Swords or Daemonhosts? Inquisitors can be radical and the GK don't care enough to kill him for using a Daemon Sword to fight Chaos. They are primarily Daemon hunters. Everything else is secondary. If the Inq started twitching and acting suspicious, the GK would of course slay him without question, and they would always keep an eye on him, but without a reason to stop the Inq using the stuff they won't.
The epub deal sounds exactly what I was thinking.
For all the people who are purely Inq, why you so mad? All you need is the Inq Codex? I get it if you need 2 sources (I do now) but only 1? What's the issue?
Inquisition lists relied somewhat heavily on the psychic dice generated by the GK psychic pilots of Razorbacks. That and cheap Obj. Sec units. Now they get neither.
So its not really pure Inq lists, its Inq with GK Razorback spam. Case resolved.
Cheap OS units? Fair point. But tbf, that would have gone out the window with any Inq 7th Ed update.
In C:GK (5th Ed) Coteaz made them Troops because only troops score. C:I in 6th Ed allowed them to score through Coteaz, and because the Inq detachment needed no Troops, you could consider them troops anyway.
Now in 7th they can already score, and you still don't need them to be troops so no point in keeping it. The original purpose is fulfilled by the core rules.
BrianDavion wrote: I'd not have minded if they kept the Ordos Malleus Inqusitors in, with some restrictions. namely no deamon swords or deamon hosts. the idea of Inqusitors who used those things fighting along side GKs is frankly, silly.
What I'd LOVE to see GW do (and they won't b ut it'd be great) is to do a ebook package deal. get Codex: GK, Codex: Inq and Dataslate Assasins for I dunno a package deal of 75ish bucks? it'd be a bit of a discount from what I can tell, and thus at least make life a little easier on GK players who DO need all 3 sources
Why no Daemon Swords or Daemonhosts? Inquisitors can be radical and the GK don't care enough to kill him for using a Daemon Sword to fight Chaos. They are primarily Daemon hunters. Everything else is secondary. If the Inq started twitching and acting suspicious, the GK would of course slay him without question, and they would always keep an eye on him, but without a reason to stop the Inq using the stuff they won't.
The epub deal sounds exactly what I was thinking.
For all the people who are purely Inq, why you so mad? All you need is the Inq Codex? I get it if you need 2 sources (I do now) but only 1? What's the issue?
Inquisition lists relied somewhat heavily on the psychic dice generated by the GK psychic pilots of Razorbacks. That and cheap Obj. Sec units. Now they get neither.
So its not really pure Inq lists, its Inq with GK Razorback spam. Case resolved.
Cheap OS units? Fair point. But tbf, that would have gone out the window with any Inq 7th Ed update.
In C:GK (5th Ed) Coteaz made them Troops because only troops score. C:I in 6th Ed allowed them to score through Coteaz, and because the Inq detachment needed no Troops, you could consider them troops anyway.
Now in 7th they can already score, and you still don't need them to be troops so no point in keeping it. The original purpose is fulfilled by the core rules.
That would be true if other parts of the core rules didn't change, now people are looking for obj. secured dedicated transports AND troops and the reason to make them obj. secured was for them to camp backfield and not worry TOO much about the turboing Jetbike, at the very least they would have to kill a vehicle and then a squad before the objective was null. Now they don't serve that purpose, beyond their codex not taking up any slots. Its basically a fluff book for those competitive players now.
Indeed, which doesn't fit any Inquisitor bar Coteaz because no other Inquisitor would have the resources to pull together a full army like we see on the tabletop (hence why the Codex is 1-2 HQ and 0-3 Elites).
C:I is for fluffly players, which is why the competitive guys went with C:GK for the Razorbacks, HS, Troop and FA units when needed.
On the crowe point, he doesn't use it's power as it's really EVIL. So he doesn't use it's power but controls it as just a combat blade, and everyone knows that he is so holy, there is no problem with him using it. And you could have GK with radicalish inquistors and my inq had a daemonblade and GK's with her.
Inquisition lists relied somewhat heavily on the psychic dice generated by the GK psychic pilots of Razorbacks. That and cheap Obj. Sec units. Now they get neither.
The objective secured rule and psychic dice have existed for barely three months. Someone who rushed out and spent money to build a list based on the interactions between the freshest content available and the 2nd oldest codex (now the oldest since the release of Orks) might have been a bit shortsighted IMO. I mean it sucks that it happened to them but it's not like they shattered a time-honored meta.
Reading through all these posts I've seen several mentions of the Grey Knights scoring an objective if they kill their allies. Is that part of the leak, or did someone on here come up with it? Would it be an optional objective they can use near the end game to break a tie or deny the opponent victory?
ForeverARookie wrote: Reading through all these posts I've seen several mentions of the Grey Knights scoring an objective if they kill their allies. Is that part of the leak, or did someone on here come up with it? Would it be an optional objective they can use near the end game to break a tie or deny the opponent victory?
Based on a WD hint where we get a Tactical Objective card called "No Witnesses"
ForeverARookie wrote: Reading through all these posts I've seen several mentions of the Grey Knights scoring an objective if they kill their allies. Is that part of the leak, or did someone on here come up with it? Would it be an optional objective they can use near the end game to break a tie or deny the opponent victory?
Based on a WD hint where we get a Tactical Objective card called "No Witnesses"
Sounds interesting, but I bet that card is just "kill x number of units" with a different title. That's how most of the Ork objectives were- I think they had a grand total of one truly unique objective.
Colpicklejar wrote: Sounds interesting, but I bet that card is just "kill x number of units" with a different title. That's how most of the Ork objectives were- I think they had a grand total of one truly unique objective.
Decide for yourself:
˘The “No witnesses!” card is a particularly sinister, though entertaining, addition to the deck”.
I would be personally very disappointed if it was just “Destroy enemy units”…
[quote=
˘The “No witnesses!” card is a particularly sinister, though entertaining, addition to the deck”.
I would be personally very disappointed if it was just “Destroy enemy units”…
You can't normally target friendly units, so would that allow Grey Knights to target their allies, or would it just encourage them to send their allies on suicide runs? Will using this set of objectives over the ones in the core rulebook be optional?
Also, I don't know how I feel about Daemons getting a buff when they're facing Grey Knights. It'd be fine if the buff the Grey Knights get when facing Daemons is enough to counter it. But honestly, the Grey Knights should be the toughest enemy Daemons ever have to face, so their buffs shouldn't have them giggling with glee to be up against an army with a Grey Knight detachment.
It's really tiresome that people will defend GWs stupid strategies as "it fits the fluff!" The company made the fluff up! (but actually stole a great deal of it and then has the gall to sue people over IP). The fluff is completely arbitrary. The game is "hard selling point" of the matter; if you ruin my capabilities to enjoy the game by drastically increasing the cost, it's BAD. Definitively. The product has less value; less actual game rules, high cost is less value. There's no opinion there, that's fact.
Yeesh, it just reeks. And no, "regular everything scores" is not the same as OBSEC. The game runs on OBSEC now.
Also, I don't know how I feel about Daemons getting a buff when they're facing Grey Knights. It'd be fine if the buff the Grey Knights get when facing Daemons is enough to counter it. But honestly, the Grey Knights should be the toughest enemy Daemons ever have to face, so their buffs shouldn't have them giggling with glee to be up against an army with a Grey Knight detachment.
The fluff is that because if there are Grey Knights in the first place there, you can assume it's a huge MAJOR daemon incursion, hence why there are so many more daemons around than usual (and thus why the Grey Knights were called in the first place).
This is one of those cases where it works both fluff wise and balance wise cause otherwise (depending on things but generally BY DESIGN in this hypothetical case) daemon players might as well just give up if they go up against a Grey Knights player.
This... In the old codex: daemonhunters, lesser daemons recieved the "without number" rule. Allowing them to come out of reserves again at full force after the GK player destroyed them.
Also, that was when GKs didn't come standard with a bunch of anti-demon tools and spells. So ironically, daemons was the worst matchup and the hardest one to face if you ran an "all rounder" army designed to take anything on and not sink your points into specific anti-demon stuff.
If you did sink your points in the anti-demon stuff, they'd vanish like snow before the sun, but it required list tailoring. So I'm not quite sure what to make of that.
But hey... now that summoning is a thing, this might just become interesting, or an uphill struggle for GKs, remains to be seen.
Also, to the guy who said you just use codex: Inquisition as the only source for your army... I don't think 3 henchmen units with DT and 2 HQs is going to get people very far in that one.
Also, I don't know how I feel about Daemons getting a buff when they're facing Grey Knights. It'd be fine if the buff the Grey Knights get when facing Daemons is enough to counter it. But honestly, the Grey Knights should be the toughest enemy Daemons ever have to face, so their buffs shouldn't have them giggling with glee to be up against an army with a Grey Knight detachment.
The fluff is that because if there are Grey Knights in the first place there, you can assume it's a huge MAJOR daemon incursion, hence why there are so many more daemons around than usual (and thus why the Grey Knights were called in the first place).
This is one of those cases where it works both fluff wise and balance wise cause otherwise (depending on things but generally BY DESIGN in this hypothetical case) daemon players might as well just give up if they go up against a Grey Knights player.
I don't think it's a good idea fluff or balance wise, because in the fluff every Grey Knight is practically a Primarch compared to the rest of the Space Marines, so they should mow through Chaos like it's nothing, and that wouldn't be good gameplay.
If you're penalized for fielding Grey Knights vs daemons, then fewer people will play Grey Knights, and virtually no one will take them as allies, ultimately hurting sales and making it a bad idea.
I don't know what sort of buff the Daemons would get, or what sort of buff the Grey Knights could get to balance it out, but I think it is just overly complicated. The factions have sort of a Paper - Scissors - Rock balance to them and Chaos Daemons are supposed to be the Paper to the Grey Knight Scissors. Balance wise, the Tau would be the Rock to the Grey Knight Scissors. It's not a perfect balance, but we shouldn't lose our advantage over a faction when other factions hold just as strong of an advantage over us as doing so would make the codex less viable.
Frankly, if the buff goes both ways and turns GK and Demons up to 11, this could be awesome! What better way to emphasise the power and importance of the GK than by upping the ante against their most powerful enemies!
If you're penalized for fielding Grey Knights vs daemons, then fewer people will play Grey Knights, and virtually no one will take them as allies, ultimately hurting sales and making it a bad idea.
I don't know what sort of buff the Daemons would get, or what sort of buff the Grey Knights could get to balance it out, but I think it is just overly complicated. The factions have sort of a Paper - Scissors - Rock balance to them and Chaos Daemons are supposed to be the Paper to the Grey Knight Scissors. Balance wise, the Tau would be the Rock to the Grey Knight Scissors. It's not a perfect balance, but we shouldn't lose our advantage over a faction when other factions hold just as strong of an advantage over us as doing so would make the codex less viable.
But you aren't supposed to be penalized for fielding Grey Knights vs Daemons (whether or not It turns out to be the case in either direction would be due to math flaws, not design-intent).
Grey Knights are supposed to get a whole ton of rules that give them bonuses against daemons. Daemons meanwhile get a ton of special rules that give them increased numbers (or maybe power, with the fluff being that the planet's already partially in the warp by now. I myself would just prefer numbers like in the past, though) to balance against that. In the end, it evens out (well, it's supposed to). With Grey Knights mowing down daemons left and right just like they are supposed to do so, but the daemon horde being HUGE, just like it's supposed to be whenever Grey Knights are involved (because that's why Grey Knights are there in the first place).
That's the design and fluff intent, at least. The execution is still up in the air.
20 bucks for assassins?! seriously? and Ipad only?
Ha! So I was under-costing it! The old Grey Knights book was $33, and in order to maintain the same army you had from the last edition you now have to pay more than *twice* the cost as before!
$50 for Grey Knights + $20 for Assassins, so $70! (actually a little more than double, but that's not the point) This is...GREAT NEWS!
Also, I see the Limited Edition has been bumped up to $110. You know, because customers are sheep or something...
20 bucks for assassins?! seriously? and Ipad only?
Ha! So I was under-costing it! The old Grey Knights book was $33, and in order to maintain the same army you had from the last edition you now have to pay more than *twice* the cost as before!
$50 for Grey Knights + $20 for Assassins, so $70! (actually a little more than double, but that's not the point) This is...GREAT NEWS!
Also, I see the Limited Edition has been bumped up to $110. You know, because customers are sheep or something...
Plus £16 ($25?) for Inquisition.
Interestingly, I noticed that in all currencies the LE is more than twice the price of the regular codex, except in Norwegian kroner, where it's 700 NOK (compared to 380 NOK for the regular).
20 bucks for assassins?! seriously? and Ipad only?
Ha! So I was under-costing it! The old Grey Knights book was $33, and in order to maintain the same army you had from the last edition you now have to pay more than *twice* the cost as before!
$50 for Grey Knights + $20 for Assassins, so $70! (actually a little more than double, but that's not the point) This is...GREAT NEWS!
Also, I see the Limited Edition has been bumped up to $110. You know, because customers are sheep or something...
U forgettin Inq codex.
Also disclaimer; i actually did buy the limited edition. A sad sucker for grey knights
Ha! So I was under-costing it! The old Grey Knights book was $33, and in order to maintain the same army you had from the last edition you now have to pay more than *twice* the cost as before!
$50 for Grey Knights + $20 for Assassins, so $70! (actually a little more than double, but that's not the point) This is...GREAT NEWS!
...
Depends on how much the Assassins have changed. If the changes are small or only points changes, just use the old codex for the inq and assassins stuff, with point changes noted down if needed.
Looks like the "Bring multiple assassins" formation is getting reprinted/ updated.
The price is high, but it all depends on what is in the expansion. The preview mentions the four assassins and the formation. Maybe there will be a couple missions tossed in like Cypher had?
I know I will be picking it up, as I have wanted to run assassins but I didn't like paying a tax in GK to do it.
Ya'll are right, I was forgetting the Inquisition since the had their own mini-dex released a white back, my apologies.
Soooooooo if you want to run the same army from your Grey Knights book (that was published in what, 2011?), you go from a $33 book to...
New rad Hardback: $50 Killer awesome Assassin Dataslate: $20 Bodacious Inquisition EBook: $25
So $95 dollars to keep playing your army. Shut up, stop complaining, you owe GW this money you haters. They're not a charity, yada yada yada (just helping everyone out by adding the usual responses )
Happygrunt wrote: Looks like the "Bring multiple assassins" formation is getting reprinted/ updated.
The price is high, but it all depends on what is in the expansion. The preview mentions the four assassins and the formation. Maybe there will be a couple missions tossed in like Cypher had?
I know I will be picking it up, as I have wanted to run assassins but I didn't like paying a tax in GK to do it.
I will reluctantly as well.
Im just hoping they add something more. (missions would be awesome or perhaps some crazy VP things like a specific target for each assassins or something interesting ya know?)
Happygrunt wrote: Looks like the "Bring multiple assassins" formation is getting reprinted/ updated.
The price is high, but it all depends on what is in the expansion. The preview mentions the four assassins and the formation. Maybe there will be a couple missions tossed in like Cypher had?
I know I will be picking it up, as I have wanted to run assassins but I didn't like paying a tax in GK to do it.
I will reluctantly as well.
Im just hoping they add something more. (missions would be awesome or perhaps some crazy VP things like a specific target for each assassins or something interesting ya know?)
Well, the Cypher expansion had a bunch of extra missions/ rules for running Cypher (including DA going bananas when he shows up) so the precedent is there. I just don't want to get my hopes up.
Interesting that they don't say how many pages the codex is on the website, while all the other recent releases do. Smaller codex or same 104 page book like all the others?
Whumbachumba wrote: Interesting that they don't say how many pages the codex is on the website, while all the other recent releases do. Smaller codex or same 104 page book like all the others?
from the leaked white dwarf pages, it said it was 96 pages IIRC
Whumbachumba wrote: Interesting that they don't say how many pages the codex is on the website, while all the other recent releases do. Smaller codex or same 104 page book like all the others?
from the leaked white dwarf pages, it said it was 96 pages IIRC
20 bucks for assassins?! seriously? and Ipad only?
jeeze it's like GW WANTS us to Pirate this.
I mean maybe it's like the cyper dataslate where you get a ton of missions and fluff... (still was over priced but I could see why they priced the cypher slate they did after I had a chance to see it)
Automatically Appended Next Post: on the bright side, it looks like they toned down the Dragio fluff.
What does the limited edition offer that's not in the regular edition? If it's just fancier or has more fluff then I'm not it's target audience being as it more than doubles the price.
Additionally, Grey Knights need a special rule to have reduced scatter, not Teleport Homers. If most of your units on the same turn, then there is no way for them to benefit from those homers as they need to be already on the table at the start of the turn. And I've never been a fan of servo skulls because every time I put them somewhere that would be of use to me, my opponent gets to them first, making them vanish.
Personally, I'm not going to buy Inquisition or Assassins. I'll use the old Codex for friendly games because the units are exactly the same, with the only additional rules in the new "books" fitting on an index card I can staple in. If GW showed any sense in their pricing I'd buy all of my models new instead of getting them exclusively used from (now former) players. For a point of reference, I've purchased roughly 10,000 points of Grey Knights over 3 years, used from other players.
Paradigm wrote: Frankly, if the buff goes both ways and turns GK and Demons up to 11, this could be awesome! What better way to emphasise the power and importance of the GK than by upping the ante against their most powerful enemies!
I hope they create the rules in such a way that GK+ Daemons doesn't get overpowered.
That would be a major screw up xD
I've generally steered away from commenting on this thread, but now the moment has finally arrived and the codex has dropped without any evidence of new models and shorn of a significant portion of its previous material yet increased in price I can only offer my Grey Knight brethren wholehearted commiserations.
With this and the Wolves release I'll be quite happy if they leave Blood Angels alone for a loooooong time.
Puri are team of 5 and the strike is the team to 5 x 2.
pally and termy look the same and have the same price.
repack only x SR. I have not seen Land.
gk now have 19 articles, 14 inqui and 6 for assassins
WD coming in:
"" The biggest change to the Codex lies in the background section. While there's still a mysteriousness to the Chapter, Its History is now fully fleshed-out "
t looks that titan will be examined well and should be an heraldry like Bretonnia. sadness. no leaks. not even an overview of the codex like last time. I feel like I clean my ass with 3 euro.
Battle: librarian (the same of the marine but silver. nothing hints at new Minia with any bundle. 5 + 5 + 10 PAGK Termy 5, 2 dreddy psyrifle ... without psy, DK and SR. NOT CITE PSYAMMO.
against s 1666 points of demons. I only say that we lose 9 to 3.
"Final Scores: Daemons 9 Grey Knights 3!"
confirms the strike squad nemesis dedicated FOC.
"One of the major influences in this Codex is the Horus Heresy novel series." but especially "There were eight Space Marines selected by the Malcador Sigillite to become the first Grey Knights, "says Owen. "One of them, Janus, Became the Chapter's first Grand Master, but the rest are unknown. I keep being asked if Captain Nathaniel Garro is one of them. I think the excitement is in the mystery and we may never know His fairies. My advice: keep reading the Horus Heresy series and see what happens. "
Well I always thought there was nat behind it all, and I like this...
sincerely? do not waste money.
about free release of the codex
nothing. Aegis should continue to work as before, Kaldor and costs 245 points, 30 less, is LOW and does not make mention of his sword but specifies that "Since That Day Has wandered the Supreme Grand Master of the tides Immaterium, no daemon or god strong enough to defeat him. "
no one chaos god can bend the warp dust sniffer (for who do not know what I mean look here https: //www.youtube....h? v = xfJUi4cB4oc)
So at the end of the story I want to bestemmiare.
no new units.
changes of cost (?)
units erase.
is not that encourage their own to buy the codex ...
The only positive note seizone BG that seems very extended ( to replace all those pages less).
MAH
Battle: librarian (the same of the marine but silver. nothing hints at new Minia with any bundle. 5 + 5 + 10 PAGK Termy 5, 2 dreddy psyrifle ... without psy, DK and SR. NOT CITE PSYAMMO.
against s 1666 points of demons. I only say that we lose 9 to 3.
"Final Scores: Daemons 9 Grey Knights 3!"
thats kind of depressing, useally GW tends to at least cook the books in favor of the new codex so they can prove how awesome it is.
Different people like the different aspects of 40k for different reasons. I don't personally have $50 worth of care for the fluff. I just want my army to work and make sense. Adding more fluff to what is at it's core a rulebook, is not a fair tradeoff for taking away half of what few units we had.
I really hope those relics and Warlord Traits are worth it.
I'll get the book, but at this point, I really don't care how my opponent acquired his rules, so long as they are correct. And it's so rediculously expensive that I'd be fine if my opponent fielded paper stand-ups of their army instead of buying models.
Ok, so I have £160 in my account, that will last until next friday when I get £80 back from a loan and possibly between £40 and £80 wages for my part time job.
I feel like I want the LE but I want all 4 of my Codexes to have the same style on my shelf. I have 6th Ed SM, Nids and CSM and now GK I could get with that gorgeous cover but I'm not set.
Want the same style and the Reg cover looks amazing but the LE looks great and its cheap and affordable enough and I've never had a LE before and might not again.
Is it worth going for? Putting aside the general moanings of how overpriced and there's nothing extra, because I love the artwork, fluff and look and feel of the Codexes, and its more than a rule source for me.
H.B.M.C. wrote: So they cut out the Assassins to resell them to you for $20? Wonderful...
$20 and I can use them in any imperial army, instead of $50 and I could only use them as an elite choice in an allied Grey knights force? Sounds like a deal to me.
Deadshot wrote: Ok, so I have £160 in my account, that will last until next friday when I get £80 back from a loan and possibly between £40 and £80 wages for my part time job.
I feel like I want the LE but I want all 4 of my Codexes to have the same style on my shelf. I have 6th Ed SM, Nids and CSM and now GK I could get with that gorgeous cover but I'm not set.
Want the same style and the Reg cover looks amazing but the LE looks great and its cheap and affordable enough and I've never had a LE before and might not again.
Is it worth going for? Putting aside the general moanings of how overpriced and there's nothing extra, because I love the artwork, fluff and look and feel of the Codexes, and its more than a rule source for me.
I just ordered the LE Codex. I hope I don't regret it. I probably won't. Probably.
GW giving Inquisition their own codex: “Hey, it is an awesome opportunity to truly develop Inquisitors and their retinue now that they are not linked with another actual army, so we can give them tons of potential special rules and exotic wargear!”. Result: copypaste.
GW giving Assassins their own codex^w dataslate: “Hey, this is an awesome opportunity to expand the assassins beyond the four temples that have been the only one with rules and models since 2nd edition, even though even back then tons of other temples were present in the fluff”. Result: only the same old 4 assassins temples, and I would bet on copypaste.
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote: GW giving Inquisition their own codex: “Hey, it is an awesome opportunity to truly develop Inquisitors and their retinue now that they are not linked with another actual army, so we can give them tons of potential special rules and exotic wargear!”. Result: copypaste.
GW giving Assassins their own codex^w dataslate: “Hey, this is an awesome opportunity to expand the assassins beyond the four temples that have been the only one with rules and models since 2nd edition, even though even back then tons of other temples were present in the fluff”. Result: only the same old 4 assassins temples, and I would bet on copypaste.
Read the fine print man!
*These opportunities to expand will be when the Codex is next updated. Til then suck it up.
There are two types of armies in 40k.
- The army that get expanded when they receive a new codex
- The army that get shrunk when they receive a new codex.
You just have to take you bet on which category Inquisition and Assassins belong to!
Only the emperor's finest artist for the Grey Knights
It's a very pretty cover, that's for sure.
Maybe it will make me feel the tiniest better about how underwhelming the inside seems to be. God, I'm so disappointed with how this codex seems to be shaping up.
Pox Apostle wrote: $20 and I can use them in any imperial army, instead of $50 and I could only use them as an elite choice in an allied Grey knights force? Sounds like a deal to me.
I don't think "deal" means what you think it means...
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote: There are two types of armies in 40k. - The army that get expanded when they receive a new codex - The army that get shrunk when they receive a new codex. You just have to take you bet on which category Inquisition and Assassins belong to!
There are two other types types of army:
- Fake armies that exist as shadows or shells of their former selves, or stillborn armies that aren't really armies (Inquisition, Sisters, Legion of the Damned) - Dead armies that simply don't exist any more (Lost & The Damned)
"One of the major influences in this Codex is the Horus Heresy novel series." but especially "There were eight Space Marines selected by the Malcador Sigillite to become the first Grey Knights, "says Owen. "One of them, Janus, Became the Chapter's first Grand Master, but the rest are unknown. I keep being asked if Captain Nathaniel Garro is one of them. I think the excitement is in the mystery and we may never know His fairies. My advice: keep reading the Horus Heresy series and see what happens. "
Well I always thought there was nat behind it all, and I like this.
Pretty sure one of the other guys was Garviel Loken
Pox Apostle wrote: $20 and I can use them in any imperial army, instead of $50 and I could only use them as an elite choice in an allied Grey knights force? Sounds like a deal to me.
Uh, this is 7th edition. So that's actually '$20 for 4 units that you can use in any army, instead of $50 for a codex full of units that you can use in any army...'
I am both excited and worried for this release. I love my Grey Knights, but I don't want to feel like I am fighting an uphill battle like I did with the old Demon Hunters codex.
Since its just a codex and no models, We will most likely see another that will be getting something new after this. Next week will be the official launch of the codex and maybe something fun for the codex will be revealed. Then we will start seeing new models for either Dark Eldar or Blood Angels. Most Likely it will be Dark Eldar.
..a possiblity of necrons instead? I am voting dark eldar though.
Necrons and DEdef need the power boost and some new models.
Vasarto wrote: Since its just a codex and no models, We will most likely see another that will be getting something new after this. Next week will be the official launch of the codex and maybe something fun for the codex will be revealed. Then we will start seeing new models for either Dark Eldar or Blood Angels. Most Likely it will be Dark Eldar.
..a possiblity of necrons instead? I am voting dark eldar though.
Necrons and DEdef need the power boost and some new models.
Nope, after Grey Knights is some Fantasy book that brings Nagash back.
Unless you meant next 40K release, in which case, yep, probably.
The cover art is horrible compared to anything else released so far.
You are mistaking the awesomeness by looking at the POSE (which is great), the angle from which it is painted, the general idea and concept itself, and of course because it is a FRIKKIN GREY KNIGHT.
But the level of detail is horribly low.
I dont even think it is the same guy who did most of the codex art so far. I think this guy is rather the guy who did the cover for the MT codex - and that art is already sub par.
What I am trying to say is that there is no hyper-realistic 3D effect.
Compare these two covers:
with these two and you'll see what I mean
The latter two look like paintings, while the former two look like computer rendered 3d models
The cover art is horrible compared to anything else released so far.
You are mistaking the awesomeness by looking at the POSE (which is great), the angle from which it is painted, the general idea and concept itself, and of course because it is a FRIKKIN GREY KNIGHT.
But the level of detail is horribly low.
I dont even think it is the same guy who did most of the codex art so far. I think this guy is rather the guy who did the cover for the MT codex - and that art is already sub par.
What I am trying to say is that there is no hyper-realistic 3D effect.
Compare these two covers:
with these two and you'll see what I mean
The latter two look like paintings, while the former two look like computer rendered 3d models
Battle: librarian (the same of the marine but silver. nothing hints at new Minia with any bundle. 5 + 5 + 10 PAGK Termy 5, 2 dreddy psyrifle ... without psy, DK and SR. NOT CITE PSYAMMO.
against s 1666 points of demons. I only say that we lose 9 to 3.
"Final Scores: Daemons 9 Grey Knights 3!"
The only positive note seizone BG that seems very extended ( to replace all those pages less).
MAH
Oh man, if they eliminated psybolt ammo as well, that just makes razorback and psyflemen dreads pretty weak. Same with the assaultcannon/hurricane bolter SR configuration. Also no longer anything special about them.
Looks like this may become codex: Dreadknights if those rumours are true. Less then a week now for the release.
I'm really not sure what you mean with that last paragraph btw? Anybody know what seizone BG is? Or am I having a brainfart?
At the iBooks store, the enhanced version of the new GK codex has the entry for Drago and Purifiers in the preview images section. Can't work out how to make it big enough to read though, lol.
I don't know if anyone has run the numbers yet (and if so, I apologize), but if the leaked point values from the glitch in the Space Wolves army builder are accurate, then the list in the White Dwarf comes to 1579 total points.
This means that either the leaked point values are incorrect or that there are 87 points worth of options not listed in the leaked army builder. Psybolt ammo? Something else?
Pox Apostle wrote: $20 and I can use them in any imperial army, instead of $50 and I could only use them as an elite choice in an allied Grey knights force? Sounds like a deal to me.
Uh, this is 7th edition. So that's actually '$20 for 4 units that you can use in any army, instead of $50 for a codex full of units that you can use in any army...'
Pox Apostle wrote: $20 and I can use them in any imperial army, instead of $50 and I could only use them as an elite choice in an allied Grey knights force? Sounds like a deal to me.
I don't think "deal" means what you think it means...
You've missed my point. I have a couple of assassins from back in 3rd ed. where I could use them in any imperial army I wanted without the need to buy models/pay points cost for an entire other army range and codex just to use said assassin. Since this is 7th ed and codexes cost $50, if they'd kept assassins in the GK book I'd have to pay $50 for the GK codex and then buy a small allied force of models, pay the points cost for them in a list all to field a battle forged army that I only wanted to include an assassin in anyhow. So, yes, $20 to be able to field my assassins without the need for a more expensive codex, and without the need of buying a new allied army, is a deal in my book.
And yes, i get that it's not a "deal" if you fielded both GK and Assassins in your army, that sucks for those who did, but having been playing since before assassins were in the GK book, I kinda knew it was only a matter of time before they got removed, especially the way this current edition is compartmentalizing everything. Besides, I'm one of those who always felt that the Inquisition and Assassins didn't belong in the GK codex to begin with. Either way it's a win for giving more people access to units, but it sucks for those who need multiple books just to play their list now.
Herodius wrote: I don't know if anyone has run the numbers yet (and if so, I apologize), but if the leaked point values from the glitch in the Space Wolves army builder are accurate, then the list in the White Dwarf comes to 1579 total points.
This means that either the leaked point values are incorrect or that there are 87 points worth of options not listed in the leaked army builder. Psybolt ammo? Something else?
Quite often the army's used in the WD battle reports are not evenly pointed out. Usually because they are trying to show off all the new models and or using the painted studio army.
Pox Apostle wrote: [... and then buy a small allied force of models, pay the points cost for them in a list all to field a battle forged army...
Hence my emphasis on 7th edition. You don't have to have an allied force at all to field an assassin in any other army in this edition.
How so? Unless I am reading the rules wrong, I thought to have a battle forged army I couldn't just take an elites choice from another codex without taking that army as an ally and being forced to bring the 1 HQ and Troops from that army?
Pox Apostle wrote: [... and then buy a small allied force of models, pay the points cost for them in a list all to field a battle forged army...
Hence my emphasis on 7th edition. You don't have to have an allied force at all to field an assassin in any other army in this edition.
How so? Unless I am reading the rules wrong, I thought to have a battle forged army I couldn't just take an elites choice from another codex without taking that army as an ally and being forced to bring the 1 HQ and Troops from that army?
You do. Insaniak is emphasising the Unbound rule where you don't need any FOC.
Pox Apostle wrote: [... and then buy a small allied force of models, pay the points cost for them in a list all to field a battle forged army...
Hence my emphasis on 7th edition. You don't have to have an allied force at all to field an assassin in any other army in this edition.
How so? Unless I am reading the rules wrong, I thought to have a battle forged army I couldn't just take an elites choice from another codex without taking that army as an ally and being forced to bring the 1 HQ and Troops from that army?
You do. Insaniak is emphasising the Unbound rule where you don't need any FOC.
Okay, good to know I wasn't missing something in the rules! I know I could always go Unbound, but my point was that it's simply nice to have the option of taking an assassin without going unbound.
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote: There are two types of armies in 40k.
- The army that get expanded when they receive a new codex
- The army that get shrunk when they receive a new codex.
You just have to take you bet on which category Inquisition and Assassins belong to!
There are two other types types of army:
- Fake armies that exist as shadows or shells of their former selves, or stillborn armies that aren't really armies (Inquisition, Sisters, Legion of the Damned)
- Dead armies that simply don't exist any more (Lost & The Damned)
If your army get shrunk when they receive a codex, it usually is a pretty good hint you are part of that “fake armies” category. Because you still get new codecies, meaning you still exist.
Pox Apostle wrote: [... and then buy a small allied force of models, pay the points cost for them in a list all to field a battle forged army...
Hence my emphasis on 7th edition. You don't have to have an allied force at all to field an assassin in any other army in this edition.
How so? Unless I am reading the rules wrong, I thought to have a battle forged army I couldn't just take an elites choice from another codex without taking that army as an ally and being forced to bring the 1 HQ and Troops from that army?
You do. Insaniak is emphasising the Unbound rule where you don't need any FOC.
Okay, good to know I wasn't missing something in the rules! I know I could always go Unbound, but my point was that it's simply nice to have the option of taking an assassin without going unbound.
I'm not a fan of all the books being $50 this edition. Up until next week, You get Inquisition, Grey Knights, and Assassins for the low, low, price of $33. I don't have a problem with them being in the same volume because each of these factions is so small to begin with. But starting next week our only options will be $25 for the Inquisition, $50 for the Grey Knights, $20 for Assassins.
As I said $33 was a great deal, but having to shell out $95 the very next update just to field the same models is beyond unfair. And GW actually said that there is no suppliment to the Grey Knights. Everyone else gets supplements that add new units to their armies, and GW turns around and takes ours away to turn them into (wait for it) SUPPLEMENTS.
Vasarto wrote: Since its just a codex and no models, We will most likely see another that will be getting something new after this. Next week will be the official launch of the codex and maybe something fun for the codex will be revealed. Then we will start seeing new models for either Dark Eldar or Blood Angels. Most Likely it will be Dark Eldar.
..a possiblity of necrons instead? I am voting dark eldar though.
Necrons and DEdef need the power boost and some new models.
Well the Necron dex just disappeared off the GW site, which is usually always the first sign.
Vasarto wrote: Since its just a codex and no models, We will most likely see another that will be getting something new after this. Next week will be the official launch of the codex and maybe something fun for the codex will be revealed. Then we will start seeing new models for either Dark Eldar or Blood Angels. Most Likely it will be Dark Eldar.
..a possiblity of necrons instead? I am voting dark eldar though.
Necrons and DEdef need the power boost and some new models.
Well the Necron dex just disappeared off the GW site, which is usually always the first sign.
However this is not always a guarantee, as they could be reprinting the book or it is a website glitch. This is not the first time something has disappeared from the site only to reappear a few days latter.
Commander_Farsight wrote: My favorite codex cover is Space Wolves, I fell in love with it. I hate the Tau one and especially the GKs one. A huge let down. Really, PURPLE!!!
You don't like the silver knight standing in the falling rain surrounded by the wisps of chaos?
Vasarto wrote: Since its just a codex and no models, We will most likely see another that will be getting something new after this. Next week will be the official launch of the codex and maybe something fun for the codex will be revealed. Then we will start seeing new models for either Dark Eldar or Blood Angels. Most Likely it will be Dark Eldar.
..a possiblity of necrons instead? I am voting dark eldar though.
Necrons and DEdef need the power boost and some new models.
*raised eyebrow*
I sit here with my BA hat on, but of those 3 Necrons are at the bottom of the list of armies requiring a power boost and their model range is pretty extensive. I can see DE coming next but will be pretty annoyed if Necrons are seen to before my own brand of special snowflake marines (and I'll be annoyed if we come before Necrons with a mediocre codex that also invalidates old wargear loadouts and army play styles. Basically, I'm going to be annoyed whatever happens).
sockwithaticket wrote: and I'll be annoyed if we come before Necrons with a mediocre codex that also invalidates old wargear loadouts and army play styles. Basically, I'm going to be annoyed whatever happens.
It's gonna happen and you know it. Appreciate your ICs and special pieces of wargear while you still can.
TheKbob wrote: To all the folks enjoying this or saying "yay, more opportunities!" then just wait for 7E update. Just wait...
These actions are just going to be flushing people further out the door. If Psy-Bolt ammo is gone...
Spoiler:
if Psybolt ammo is gone I'm sure GK players will adapt.
I'm starting a GK list and if they remove Psybolt ammo I might look to a guard detachment to address my anti-armnor concerns.
well that or run my Grey Knights along side my Knight Paladin. my original plan was to actually run one but I was hoping to toss a psybolt rifleman dread on the table or two to divide some of the anti-tank firepower
Vasarto wrote: Since its just a codex and no models, We will most likely see another that will be getting something new after this. Next week will be the official launch of the codex and maybe something fun for the codex will be revealed. Then we will start seeing new models for either Dark Eldar or Blood Angels. Most Likely it will be Dark Eldar.
..a possiblity of necrons instead? I am voting dark eldar though.
Necrons and DEdef need the power boost and some new models.
*raised eyebrow*
I sit here with my BA hat on, but of those 3 Necrons are at the bottom of the list of armies requiring a power boost and their model range is pretty extensive. I can see DE coming next but will be pretty annoyed if Necrons are seen to before my own brand of special snowflake marines (and I'll be annoyed if we come before Necrons with a mediocre codex that also invalidates old wargear loadouts and army play styles. Basically, I'm going to be annoyed whatever happens).
yeah necrons, aren't they still considered a middle to top tier army?
Vasarto wrote: Since its just a codex and no models, We will most likely see another that will be getting something new after this. Next week will be the official launch of the codex and maybe something fun for the codex will be revealed. Then we will start seeing new models for either Dark Eldar or Blood Angels. Most Likely it will be Dark Eldar.
..a possiblity of necrons instead? I am voting dark eldar though.
Necrons and DEdef need the power boost and some new models.
*raised eyebrow*
I sit here with my BA hat on, but of those 3 Necrons are at the bottom of the list of armies requiring a power boost and their model range is pretty extensive. I can see DE coming next but will be pretty annoyed if Necrons are seen to before my own brand of special snowflake marines (and I'll be annoyed if we come before Necrons with a mediocre codex that also invalidates old wargear loadouts and army play styles. Basically, I'm going to be annoyed whatever happens).
Im with you there, to a point. Necrons dont need an update, like... at all. Theyre good til the middle of next year. Everyone keeps saying dark eldar will be next but i actually highly doubt it. In the original 7th edition FAQs, orks, blood angels, space wolves, and grey knights were the only books that had something TAKEN OUT of them, psychic powers in particular. Of those 4, orks got the first update since they were a 4th ed book. Wolves were next because they were older than all the other books by at least a year. Grey knights got pushed through because their book had tons of stuff that was invalidated by 7th and you needed the FAQ just to effectively play the army. BA are the next logical step, since we lost our book specific psychic powers and had several units (mephiston, libby dreads, etc) that were built with those powers in mind. It would make sense, though whether this is right is still yet to be seen.
I have a feeling that theyll just bring our points costs in line with the other marine books, give us relics/warlord traits/psychic powers, and maybe 1 new model or unit. Unexciting, but ill be perfectly happy if thats the case.
...I might look to a guard detachment to address my anti-armnor concerns...
Ah, yes. The "spend another $50 on a rulebook and buy a complete second faction to make up for the removed capabilities in the book you previously had" tactic. Glad to see GW is being successful in this ruse. *Looks at the financials thread* Oh, wait...
...I might look to a guard detachment to address my anti-armnor concerns...
Ah, yes. The "spend another $50 on a rulebook and buy a complete second faction to make up for the removed capabilities in the book you previously had" tactic. Glad to see GW is being successful in this ruse. *Looks at the financials thread* Oh, wait...
In my case I specificly say I might look at a small guard detachment because I actually have one anyway. it'd literally cost me Nothing to toss a company command squad, 2 squads of veterns and a LR vanquisher in. I'm not saying this is needed, I am saying "well since I have this anyway, maybe I'll take a look at using it"
In codex daemonhunter, Grey knights had to rely on inducted guardsmen to get any anti tank weaponry in their army.
Looks like with the amputation of this new codex and the possible loss of psybolt, it looks like they'll be back to resorting to the same tactics. Aaaaah GW, you can be quite amusing in your money grabbing.
In codex daemonhunter, Grey knights had to rely on inducted guardsmen to get any anti tank weaponry in their army.
Looks like with the amputation of this new codex and the possible loss of psybolt, it looks like they'll be back to resorting to the same tactics. Aaaaah GW, you can be quite amusing in your money grabbing.
well I suppose you could sue a godhammer LR for a anti-tank. or a Dreadknight. there ARE options.
So my question is seeing that grey knights are the only army whose terminators can't bring storm shields is there any news of them gaining that war gear because that would make me really happy.
In codex daemonhunter, Grey knights had to rely on inducted guardsmen to get any anti tank weaponry in their army.
Looks like with the amputation of this new codex and the possible loss of psybolt, it looks like they'll be back to resorting to the same tactics. Aaaaah GW, you can be quite amusing in your money grabbing.
well I suppose you could sue a godhammer LR for a anti-tank. or a Dreadknight. there ARE options.
Just not as good.
There's also Dreadnoughts with their wide array of weapon options and Stormravens. But none of that comes even remotely close being as fantastically cheap as psybolt ammo.
It may be worth mentioning that they're fairly good at AT with daemonhammers though. And if their deep striking has gotten (a little) better then they'd close the gap between themselves and the tanks they need to smash fairly quickly. That's usually the tactic I use anyway.
BlackRaven1987!! wrote: So my question is seeing that grey knights are the only army whose terminators can't bring storm shields is there any news of them gaining that war gear because that would make me really happy.
No. They aren't in the kit, so don't expect them to get them in the codex.
BlackRaven1987!! wrote: So my question is seeing that grey knights are the only army whose terminators can't bring storm shields is there any news of them gaining that war gear because that would make me really happy.
No. They aren't in the kit, so don't expect them to get them in the codex.
So no rumors on maybe a repackage of the present kit?
BlackRaven1987!! wrote: So my question is seeing that grey knights are the only army whose terminators can't bring storm shields is there any news of them gaining that war gear because that would make me really happy.
No. They aren't in the kit, so don't expect them to get them in the codex.
So no rumors on maybe a repackage of the present kit?
No, the only repackage was the 10 man strike squad.
No Psybolt Ammo would flat out suck. I'm not even talking about the anti tank aspect of psybolt Autocannons and Assault Cannons. I'm looking at the Stormbolter every GK carries. That S5 Stormbolter is what helped my GK army actually be effective in the shooting phase compared to normal marines with bolters. We're already going to be outnumbered by regular marines, but at least the psybolt stormbolters helped even up the shooting a bit.
ForeverARookie wrote: After all this nonsense, we may still have no answer to Tau's long range firepower and ridiculously overpowered overwatch.
Why is it that the Grey Knights aren't apparently allowed to have ranged firepower? Are Daemons just immune to anything moving faster than a Hammer?
GKs aren't really built as a shooty army. so expecting some sort of magic anti tau thing is a bit strange. that said, we do have the new nemisis formation, which DOES allow GKs to drop a heavy force in our opponents face on turn 1. it MIGHT be eneugh
ForeverARookie wrote: After all this nonsense, we may still have no answer to Tau's long range firepower and ridiculously overpowered overwatch.
Why is it that the Grey Knights aren't apparently allowed to have ranged firepower? Are Daemons just immune to anything moving faster than a Hammer?
GKs aren't really built as a shooty army. so expecting some sort of magic anti tau thing is a bit strange. that said, we do have the new nemisis formation, which DOES allow GKs to drop a heavy force in our opponents face on turn 1. it MIGHT be eneugh
Only if they still allow Grand Masters / Brother-Captains to take servo skulls. Or barring that, SOMETHING that makes DS more reliable.
ForeverARookie wrote: After all this nonsense, we may still have no answer to Tau's long range firepower and ridiculously overpowered overwatch.
Why is it that the Grey Knights aren't apparently allowed to have ranged firepower? Are Daemons just immune to anything moving faster than a Hammer?
GKs aren't really built as a shooty army. so expecting some sort of magic anti tau thing is a bit strange. that said, we do have the new nemisis formation, which DOES allow GKs to drop a heavy force in our opponents face on turn 1. it MIGHT be eneugh
Only if they still allow Grand Masters / Brother-Captains to take servo skulls. Or barring that, SOMETHING that makes DS more reliable.
Aren't three servo skulls just 39 points and an inquisitorial detachment away? Or is that considered bad form?
Servo Skulls can't be placed in enemy deployment zones, so dropping behind any enemy line would have full scatter. And a turn 1 drop can't even benefit from a Drop Pod with a Teleport Homer.
That doesn't change that fact that successfully charging the Tau is as hard as a lone psyker getting off a Psychic power when an entire Grey Knight army pools its dice to stop him.
ForeverARookie wrote: After all this nonsense, we may still have no answer to Tau's long range firepower and ridiculously overpowered overwatch.
Why is it that the Grey Knights aren't apparently allowed to have ranged firepower? Are Daemons just immune to anything moving faster than a Hammer?
GKs aren't really built as a shooty army. so expecting some sort of magic anti tau thing is a bit strange. that said, we do have the new nemisis formation, which DOES allow GKs to drop a heavy force in our opponents face on turn 1. it MIGHT be eneugh
Only if they still allow Grand Masters / Brother-Captains to take servo skulls. Or barring that, SOMETHING that makes DS more reliable.
I'm crossing my fingers for a new peice of wargear, or warlord trait
Well, the new WD offers some more insight into the new GK codex.
It appears that the new GK were designed as an ally force or a main detachment make use of allies, fighting side by side with battle brothers.
wuestenfux wrote: Well, the new WD offers some more insight into the new GK codex.
It appears that the new GK were designed as an ally force or a main detachment make use of allies, fighting side by side with battle brothers.
for me this would be a real bummer. I just started my Grey Knight army because they are the only Imperial army that really appealed to me in terms of looks, and
playing with friends or competitively is also a big factor. If the codex comes out and it sucks, then I can't do anything about it, but I think i'd prefer that than
a codex designed to have allies or be an allied attachment. Anyway that's just my personal preference, as I'd just like to play only grey knights.
wuestenfux wrote: Well, the new WD offers some more insight into the new GK codex.
It appears that the new GK were designed as an ally force or a main detachment make use of allies, fighting side by side with battle brothers.
for me this would be a real bummer. I just started my Grey Knight army because they are the only Imperial army that really appealed to me in terms of looks, and
playing with friends or competitively is also a big factor. If the codex comes out and it sucks, then I can't do anything about it, but I think i'd prefer that than
a codex designed to have allies or be an allied attachment. Anyway that's just my personal preference, as I'd just like to play only grey knights.
Well, against a very shooty or horde army, a GK army with models from the new GK codex only, will play an uphill battle.
Not sure if there is light at the horizon. Termies got cheaper, the same holds for the DK's weapons and teleporter. Moreover, the new GK can deep strike in round 1.
So if played smartly (deep striking to overwhelm one enemy flank), this may work.
Sir Arun wrote: Of course we WILL see dual heavy psycannon dreadknights to bring in some anti horde firepower
If so, I'd opt for dual heavy incinerators.
The new GK a new force organization chart with 2 HS, 2 FA, and 4 Elite slots.
Since Dreadnoughts seem to be Elite, you could play 2 DK's and up to 4 Dreads.
Buth then you would need some cheap units for scoring which you could only integrate via allies.
us around 
