To be fair things that you want to force are generally from Eldar, Necrons and Chaos (both). and besides Chaos and mirror matches, they wont be able to match the dumb amount of warp charges you make. Its also possible to sit there and bait out charges.
Edit: At best you chuck out 2 WC and have a decent chance of getting it. otherwise shoot some troops :/
LoW:
Draigo, who is a better unit generally speaking with the options for Relics, but does not make Paladins Troops anymore.
HQ:
Librarian (Cheaper = better),
Brother Captain/Grandmaster (OK),
Brother Captain Stern (Still not going to play him)
Crowe (looks better, but he's more expensive so we'll see),
Brotherhood Champion (if he's still there it'll mean Crowe isn't the only non-terminator HQ on the list)
Lost:
Grandmaster Mordrak (Replaced with a 1/6 chance Warlord Trait.
All the Inquisitors (In other words the non-expensive HQ options)
Elite:
Techmarine (Lost the Grenade Jockey options)
Purifiers (Soulblaze on everything? slight consolation to the loss of the Psycannon's functionality)
Dreadnought/Venerable Dreadnought (Lost Psyfleman option)
Paladins (much better)
Lost:
Assassins
Warbands
Troops:
Terminators (much better, but lost Justicar Thawn)
Strike Squad (Lost the Psycanon's functionality)
Fast Attack:
Storm Raven (Better missiles, but lost Psybolt)
Interceptor Squads (Lost the functionality of the Psycannon)
Heavy:
Dreadknights (Appointed chosen of GW to be the new backbone of the Grey Knight Codex)
Purgation Squad (Inferior in every way to the Dreadknights)
Other Changes:
Land Raider varients moved to Dedicated Transport.
Lost:
Psybolt on EVERYTHING. The StormRaven, Land Raider Crusader, Razorback, and Rifleman Dreadnought are hit the most heavily.
Why are paladins loads better? (This sounds sarcy but I promise it's a genuine question!) am feeling a tiny bit better... Not loads... But a little.
WrentheFaceless wrote: Not sure about the rest of you, but DTW on force is still farily difficult having to roll 6's for each charge.
Its not as easy as people are making it out to be
If they have any Psykers, they'll have a decent dice pool for denying, whereas if the Dreadknight throws too many dice into Force to prevent the opponent from denying it, he practically guarantees a Perils of the Warp which could kill him. It's not worth the <4% chance of successfully getting an Instant Death vs an enemy. The Heavy Psycannon will just kill them with wounds, and does it better.
WrentheFaceless wrote: Not sure about the rest of you, but DTW on force is still farily difficult having to roll 6's for each charge.
Its not as easy as people are making it out to be
If they have any Psykers, they'll have a decent dice pool for denying, whereas if the Dreadknight throws too many dice into Force to prevent the opponent from denying it, he practically guarantees a Perils of the Warp which could kill him. It's not worth the <4% chance of successfully getting an Instant Death vs an enemy. The Heavy Psycannon will just kill them with wounds, and does it better.
Less than 4% chance? Where are you getting this math from? Activating force is a 50% chance on just one die, it only goes up from there. Whereas your opponent rolling 1 die to deny it is a 17% chance. The odds are in your favor of getting it off
Draigo got demonstrably better. Hard to see how he's not an auto-take now. +3 strength on the titansword AND hammerhand is turning him into an AP2 combat monster.
Most of the relics are meh. I like the terminator armor, and hopefully it will be costed similarly to the SW artificer.
If ML3 libbies are seriously 135 pts that's ridiculous. I'll double CAD every time for four of them.
I dislike the changes to NFW, but I'll work around it. Still struggling to see how they can operate without allies but we'll see.
Desubot wrote: To be fair things that you want to force are generally from Eldar, Necrons and Chaos (both). and besides Chaos and mirror matches, they wont be able to match the dumb amount of warp charges you make. Its also possible to sit there and bait out charges.
Edit: At best you chuck out 2 WC and have a decent chance of getting it. otherwise shoot some troops :/
With the loss of henchmen and psychic pilot GK are going to have a LOT less WC's. Vs Eldar you can't even wound a wraith knight with s4 so again, use your dice all day on that trash. Against chaos you can gib some spawn, I'll give you that, but screwing chaos was never hard. Necrons? CCB's don't care, literally and that's a problem for the NDK. Wraiths should be scared though, but if I am a cron player staring down multiple NDK with gatling Psi.... I'd be stupid not to reserve my wraiths until my CCB's cornered those things.
WrentheFaceless wrote: Not sure about the rest of you, but DTW on force is still farily difficult having to roll 6's for each charge.
Its not as easy as people are making it out to be
If they have any Psykers, they'll have a decent dice pool for denying, whereas if the Dreadknight throws too many dice into Force to prevent the opponent from denying it, he practically guarantees a Perils of the Warp which could kill him. It's not worth the <4% chance of successfully getting an Instant Death vs an enemy. The Heavy Psycannon will just kill them with wounds, and does it better.
^This
Also I am still not seeing where all these power dice are coming from. All the cheap sources were lost lol. You will ironically have WAY less then demons who get to 20+ without trying very hard.
Cool, thanks for replies. Have not bought 7th yet and barely played 6th. Hoping my Red Hunters (BA Codex) will get an update soon too. Looking at a set of Strikes to go with my dual Stormraven lists, stoked that Draigo can finally do some quality chopping. I'm assuming I can still Combat Squad my Purifiers to make them a shooty squad and a stabby squad? All the more important now that the Psycannon is Salvo.
Auswin wrote: Draigo got demonstrably better. Hard to see how he's not an auto-take now. +3 strength on the titansword AND hammerhand is turning him into an AP2 combat monster.
Most of the relics are meh. I like the terminator armor, and hopefully it will be costed similarly to the SW artificer.
If ML3 libbies are seriously 135 pts that's ridiculous. I'll double CAD every time for four of them.
I dislike the changes to NFW, but I'll work around it. Still struggling to see how they can operate without allies but we'll see.
Yea but that's all he does lol. 245 for a guy who steals your power dice to get unnecessarily stronger and still is on foot and geared only for combat. Anything he can kill that justifys his cost can just walk away.
If you want power dice you hit 10-12 fairly easy. 6 is only 270pts on two level 3 libbies. Even assuming 1 per 200pts there after you're still looking at 14 power dice (more if you combat squad). Seems like above everyone except Eldar & Daemons. Seems appropriate to me. Also GK powers aren't like Daemon powers. Our highest cost is WC2 with most being 1. Unlike Daemons who have a plethora of WC3.
Quickjager wrote: Draigo can't take relics, he is a IC Crowe is an IC but is more expensive, also he has had a odd rule change... He doesn't rend anymore, but in challenges he smashes (like a MC)
Smash also makes all his close combat attacks AP2, which pretty much means that you get to pick a character that doesn't fight when he is in combat.
Desubot wrote: To be fair things that you want to force are generally from Eldar, Necrons and Chaos (both). and besides Chaos and mirror matches, they wont be able to match the dumb amount of warp charges you make. Its also possible to sit there and bait out charges.
Edit: At best you chuck out 2 WC and have a decent chance of getting it. otherwise shoot some troops :/
With the loss of henchmen and psychic pilot GK are going to have a LOT less WC's. Vs Eldar you can't even wound a wraith knight with s4 so again, use your dice all day on that trash. Against chaos you can gib some spawn, I'll give you that, but screwing chaos was never hard. Necrons? CCB's don't care, literally and that's a problem for the NDK. Wraiths should be scared though, but if I am a cron player staring down multiple NDK with gatling Psi.... I'd be stupid not to reserve my wraiths until my CCB's cornered those things.
Yeah was referring to Wraiths, Spawns and possibly princes. forgot s4 to T8 :/ which almost everyone uses, as well gets through FNP which is another bonus.
its also great if the whole 4+ to wound thing is still there against Daemons.
pretre wrote: Anyone have an actual quote for Psychic Pilot being removed? People keep saying it, but I haven't seen it.
Its called reading the goddamn source.
Dreadnoughts still have the rule, everything else lost it. Just click on Brovius's post history on the source link; no its not a over reaction.
EDIT: Lascannon option on razorback got cheaper by 15 points.
Chill. Take a sip of a frosty beverage.
Most of us don't hang out on B&C, so rather than flipping the frak out, just post that crud over here:
"I swear every time I try to leave the PC I refresh the page and feel compelled to answer another question tongue.png
Doomfists are no more, that goes for both the NDK and the Dread. Dreads are still psychic pilots, but everything else is just a normal vehicle (and received the appropriate price change). The Dread still has Sanctuary and Banishment.The higher price from C:SM is likely to accomodate the Aegis and Psychic Pilot (Reinforced Aegis is gone, not that it really did much after the FAQ).
EDIT: Homers are available for all Justicars, Paladins, and HQs that aren't BHCs or Crowe. Teleport Homer is limited to TDA and PT-armed models though. Strikes can't benefit from the homer for some odd reason."
I'm probably alone here, but I am really pissed at the loss of Mordrak. Was currently in the processes of making a custom Mordrak and ghost knights. Yes, i am aware I can still use them as GKT and a a regular HQ, but what was the purpose of removing him and Thawn. Might thumb through the codex, but I cant seem to justify that price for a codex that nerfs the army I have been playing for over a decade and in the words of a contributor that i can't think of at the moment on this forum "it's almost as if GW WANTS us to pirate their products".
Hulksmash wrote: If you want power dice you hit 10-12 fairly easy. 6 is only 270pts on two level 3 libbies. Even assuming 1 per 200pts there after you're still looking at 14 power dice (more if you combat squad). Seems like above everyone except Eldar & Daemons. Seems appropriate to me. Also GK powers aren't like Daemon powers. Our highest cost is WC2 with most being 1. Unlike Daemons who have a plethora of WC3.
Right, but it does limit some builds that currently are floating around, namely the centstar. This is a good thing IMO.
I still think sinking 3 dice or 25% of your pool on force is plenty fine by me. Most things worth forcing to death again are hard to hit, or getting a great save in the case of bugs from cover. I'd stick with heavy PC and incinerators on the NDK.
I do think regular psilencers are nice on strike though. just look at it as a guy with 2 extra storm bolters. It makes the units total shots increase very efficiently on small scoring units. Though honestly an incinerator is probably best for killing cheap enemy Obsec units.
Elmir wrote: Just a quick question: Will a DK have to upgrade to hammer to gain acces to both concussive AND force on his weapons now?
Or are his fists still force activated too?
Wow good call. I wonder if the Nemdoomfists becoming powerfists means you need to buy the sword or hammer for Force. It honestly would make more sense.
Elmir wrote: Just a quick question: Will a DK have to upgrade to hammer to gain acces to both concussive AND force on his weapons now?
Or are his fists still force activated too?
Wow good call. I wonder if the Nemdoomfists becoming powerfists means you need to buy the sword or hammer for Force. It honestly would make more sense.
It is, guy on B&CS confirmed it. Sword and Hammer for NDK are force, so they're still auto take if you want your NDK to one shot other MCs.
Elmir wrote: Just a quick question: Will a DK have to upgrade to hammer to gain acces to both concussive AND force on his weapons now?
Or are his fists still force activated too?
Aye, you need either of the two upgrades to give him a Daemonbane Force weapon again. The Hammer has Concussive and the Greatsword has Master-Crafted and Specialist Weapon (so you maintain the bonus attack) I believe.
Edit: Oh, Hammers have Specialist Weapon as well, never mind that bit.
Elmir wrote: Just a quick question: Will a DK have to upgrade to hammer to gain acces to both concussive AND force on his weapons now?
Or are his fists still force activated too?
Wow good call. I wonder if the Nemdoomfists becoming powerfists means you need to buy the sword or hammer for Force. It honestly would make more sense.
It is, guy on B&CS confirmed it. Sword and Hammer for NDK are force, so they're still auto take if you want your NDK to one shot other MCs.
These guys are cheap stock but it is looking like there are a lot of hidden costs to make them all purpose.
What are we looking at for a sword swinging shunter with dual HPcanons? ~220ish
Elmir wrote: Just a quick question: Will a DK have to upgrade to hammer to gain acces to both concussive AND force on his weapons now?
Or are his fists still force activated too?
Wow good call. I wonder if the Nemdoomfists becoming powerfists means you need to buy the sword or hammer for Force. It honestly would make more sense.
Actually I don't think they mentioned anything about that... I know the sword has its own profile now and that it IS a Force weapon and specialist weapon. So you do get that extra attack, The hammer does give Conc and Force. I'd assume we have to pay the points now (its only 10).
EDIT: Dreadknights can take each weapon only ONCE, no dual flamers guy, oh and he gets Sanctuary.
Desubot wrote: To be fair things that you want to force are generally from Eldar, Necrons and Chaos (both). and besides Chaos and mirror matches, they wont be able to match the dumb amount of warp charges you make. Its also possible to sit there and bait out charges.
Edit: At best you chuck out 2 WC and have a decent chance of getting it. otherwise shoot some troops :/
With the loss of henchmen and psychic pilot GK are going to have a LOT less WC's. Vs Eldar you can't even wound a wraith knight with s4 so again, use your dice all day on that trash. Against chaos you can gib some spawn, I'll give you that, but screwing chaos was never hard. Necrons? CCB's don't care, literally and that's a problem for the NDK. Wraiths should be scared though, but if I am a cron player staring down multiple NDK with gatling Psi.... I'd be stupid not to reserve my wraiths until my CCB's cornered those things.
Hammerhand + Halberd makes them S7. Hammerhand + Hammers makes them S10. It requires 2 powers to go off, but it not all that difficult when both are ML1
Elmir wrote: Just a quick question: Will a DK have to upgrade to hammer to gain acces to both concussive AND force on his weapons now?
Or are his fists still force activated too?
Wow good call. I wonder if the Nemdoomfists becoming powerfists means you need to buy the sword or hammer for Force. It honestly would make more sense.
Actually I don't think they mentioned anything about that... I know the sword has its own profile now and that it IS a Force weapon and specialist weapon. So you do get that extra attack, The hammer does give Conc and Force. I'd assume we have to pay the points now (its only 10).
EDIT: Dreadknights can take each weapon only ONCE, no dual flamers guy, oh and he gets Sanctuary.
I'd go PT, Sword, HPC and HI on all of them if I played GK.
Hulksmash wrote: If you want power dice you hit 10-12 fairly easy. 6 is only 270pts on two level 3 libbies. Even assuming 1 per 200pts there after you're still looking at 14 power dice (more if you combat squad). Seems like above everyone except Eldar & Daemons. Seems appropriate to me. Also GK powers aren't like Daemon powers. Our highest cost is WC2 with most being 1. Unlike Daemons who have a plethora of WC3.
Right, but it does limit some builds that currently are floating around, namely the centstar. This is a good thing IMO.
I still think sinking 3 dice or 25% of your pool on force is plenty fine by me. Most things worth forcing to death again are hard to hit, or getting a great save in the case of bugs from cover. I'd stick with heavy PC and incinerators on the NDK.
I do think regular psilencers are nice on strike though. just look at it as a guy with 2 extra storm bolters. It makes the units total shots increase very efficiently on small scoring units. Though honestly an incinerator is probably best for killing cheap enemy Obsec units.
Good points... The libbies at ML 3 will be a big boon. Don't forget that purifiers in rhinos are still going to be pretty bad-ass if given 2 psilencers as well for top hatch fun AND casting cleansing flame is possible from top hatch too. Maybe that's a better place to put in a few of this specialist weapon? I still think heavy psilencer is subpar to dual heavy incinerators or the more flexible heavy psycannons for your dreadknights.
There will be a bit more than "just codex: Dreadknights", but it won't be far off. I call SS officially dead though... Terminators are where it's at.
Don't forget that interceptors got a bit cheaper too. I fail to see the point in SS.
Do dreadnaughts still have sanctuary as base? Even though they suffered a nerf, I still think they'll be usable with the FoC shift in combination with landing pads and com relays (I wouldn't want to leave home without those now that we rely on Deepstrike as much.
agnosto wrote: So, how many attacks with the DK and sword now? Both fist and sword are specialist, does that mean we get an additional attack for dual-wield?
It would suck if the sword/hammer are a replace instead of in addition to fists...
agnosto wrote: So, how many attacks with the DK and sword now? Both fist and sword are specialist, does that mean we get an additional attack for dual-wield?
It would suck if the sword/hammer are a replace instead of in addition to fists...
If the fists no longer have force then I see no way to avoid it. But it is GW, so get ready for YMDA filled with: Does my NDK get s10 from the fists while benefiting from the swords force? threads
agnosto wrote: So, how many attacks with the DK and sword now? Both fist and sword are specialist, does that mean we get an additional attack for dual-wield?
It would suck if the sword/hammer are a replace instead of in addition to fists...
Sword and hammer do replace fists.
OK thank god. Otherwise confusion and arguing would reign.
One weapon each is still fine, still worth it to dual kit them now with decreases.
But yea Teleporter, Sword, Psycannon, and incinerator seems the best build
But looks like the Greatsword is indeed Str x2 ap 2
So no need for the faq shenanigans
Sanctuary makes the DK much more survivable.
I'll take my standard loadout with heavy incinerator and teleporter. Cheap and very solid.
Two DK's seem to become mandatory in any GK force.
Wow the sword doubles strength? I didn't expect that. That's actually kind of stupid, makes the hammer a never take again.
If at 5p vs 10p, it would make perfect sense. Concussive versus Master crafted...
at 35p for HPC, that would make a dualwield HPC with sword and PT clock in at 240? I'm not sure about the HPC cost anymore...
Anyway, with fists, hammer AND greatsword being x2S, what's the point of hammerhand on it again? o.O
Well someone said dual wielding isn't possible so we will see, however 240 for a 12" moving MC that has 12 s7 rending shots? Totally worth it IMO. Thats the firepower of 3....3!!!! riflemen who lack rending. Try getting 3 of those for 240. Oh and he is no chump in HtH like the rifleman dreads.
It would have been nice to have a reason to take purgation squads... If they had scout, they'd be nearly useful. Kind of a shame the only real HS choice is DKs.
Yeah, considering I can give my guy a H. Incinerator, Sword, Heavy Psycannon, and PT for right around the cost of my current DK with Teleporter and H. Incinerator I'm a happy camper.
Redemption wrote: It's 5 points cheaper and replaces Master-Crafted with Concussive. The Greatsword isn't re-roll everything anymore.
Yea but concussive is generally useless, I'd rather have the MCraft ability.
And thats why he has sanctuary instead of hammerhand, all of the weapons are x2 str now
Which makes the gatling psilencer worse too btw. Unless your going to try convincing me that you will cast both those powers regularly without robbing your army. IDK, starting to seem more and more evident they want people using NDK's. They got way cheaper, and out perform dreads in every way possible. Hurray for auto takes. Did Pugators seriously get nothing?
Wow the sword doubles strength? I didn't expect that. That's actually kind of stupid, makes the hammer a never take again.
If at 5p vs 10p, it would make perfect sense. Concussive versus Master crafted...
at 35p for HPC, that would make a dualwield HPC with sword and PT clock in at 240? I'm not sure about the HPC cost anymore...
Anyway, with fists, hammer AND greatsword being x2S, what's the point of hammerhand on it again? o.O
Well someone said dual wielding isn't possible so we will see, however 240 for a 12" moving MC that has 12 s7 rending shots? Totally worth it IMO. Thats the firepower of 3....3!!!! riflemen who lack rending. Try getting 3 of those for 240. Oh and he is no chump in HtH like the rifleman dreads.
Or can not get knocked out or disabled on the first wound (except for force)
I looks like I might be able to bring my Grey Knight force under 2k
Librarian
Paladin Squad
Purifier Squad
Terminators
Strike Squad
Interceptors
Dread Knight
agnosto wrote: It would have been nice to have a reason to take purgation squads... If they had scout, they'd be nearly useful. Kind of a shame the only real HS choice is DKs.
^This
GK are just becoming more like every other army with MC's. Spam as many as you can.
But no they're still the same, 4 can take special weapons per 5 man.
lol with a 24" range gun. woo!! Don't do anything crazy now!
Yea they are outclassed in every way by the NDK. This is GW's major problem they can't seem to ever get right. They make units that are borderline useless that compete for slots with units that are overly efficient for their cost. I no perfect imbalance is a thing but this is far from perfect, this is just imbalance for the sake of being different.
Quickjager wrote: One interesting thing is that Techmarines are a HQ, but if you already have a HQ they do not take a FOC slot. Also they have access to relics.
Yes that means Techmarines in Terminator armor might be a thing now.
Sounds like C:SM... not surprised. Are orbital relays still a thing?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Super Newb wrote: So the DK will come standard with power fists in the new edition? Would it strike at initiative 4 with those or 1?
WrentheFaceless wrote: Not sure about the rest of you, but DTW on force is still farily difficult having to roll 6's for each charge.
Its not as easy as people are making it out to be
If they have any Psykers, they'll have a decent dice pool for denying, whereas if the Dreadknight throws too many dice into Force to prevent the opponent from denying it, he practically guarantees a Perils of the Warp which could kill him. It's not worth the <4% chance of successfully getting an Instant Death vs an enemy. The Heavy Psycannon will just kill them with wounds, and does it better.
Less than 4% chance? Where are you getting this math from? Activating force is a 50% chance on just one die, it only goes up from there. Whereas your opponent rolling 1 die to deny it is a 17% chance. The odds are in your favor of getting it off
More specifically each shot has < 4% chance of causing an instant death.
If you load up a NDK with 2 Gatling Psilencers you get 24 shots. Hitting on a 3+ (x2/3), Wounding T5 on a 5+ (x1/3), enemy 3+ save being failed (x1/3) brings the statistical number of unsaved wounds to 48/27, or 1.78, or 1-2 wounds per shooting phase, which is 7.4% of the shots taken.
Edit: fixed math error
Now let's look at the Force power. Using 3 dice has a 87.5% chance of success, but also carries a 7.4% chance of getting a Perils of the Warp. If your opponent also uses 3 dice to Deny the Witch, he'll also have a 7.4% chance of denying 2 successfully harnessed Warp Charges. Bringing the chance of successful activation down to 81% chance of successful activation.
So each shot has a 7.4% chance of causing an unsaved wound, and you have a 81% chance of activating Force, meaning your chance of sucessfully inflicting Instant Death on the opponent with 2 Gatling Psilencers is roughly 6% under the best conditions.
*Also, I've been told that you still can't take 2 of the same gun on a Dreadknight, which would again drop that percentage down to 3%.
Personally, I'm still going to see if I can't take a full unit of terminators with 2 psycannons with an inquisitor with a liber heresius/ psycannon for the scout move.
Or even consider a LR variant to put a 5 man version of that squad in with the inquisitor? It would give them a 12 scout move if I'm not mistaken?
It should be a good midfield or even flank unit at a more reasonable price now and it has 3 psycannons and the justicar of that unit can carry a teleport homer to guide in any shunters. It could make for a very surprise flank change tactic against some opponents.
I understand peoples annoyance at the general loss of power and utility on a number of units but speaking for myself I got into playing GK's for their cool Daemon Hunting fluff and teleporting pure Terminator armoured elite forces - so for me the new book is looking good to go. (wish I could keep my old halberds though ;-)
Force is a Blessing, so you can only deny it on a 6, not a 4+.
Three Deny the Witch dice have 216 possible combinations.
91 of those combinations have at least 1 successful 6 to deny a Warp charge.
16 of those combinations have at least 2 successful 6 to deny both Warp charges.
16/216 = 7.4%
So you're correct that there was an error, but it was that I calculated for 1 denied dice instead of 2, not assuming a denial on a 4+.
WisdomLS wrote: I understand peoples annoyance at the general loss of power and utility on a number of units but speaking for myself I got into playing GK's for their cool Daemon Hunting fluff and teleporting pure Terminator armoured elite forces - so for me the new book is looking good to go. (wish I could keep my old halberds though ;-)
I think its the loss of content period that has people upset. Even if it was foreseeable, that isn't much consolation. Whats worse is when others tell them they are happy for the looses, or that they should share books with friends. That doesn't address the injury, just patches the wound a tad.
WisdomLS wrote: I understand peoples annoyance at the general loss of power and utility on a number of units but speaking for myself I got into playing GK's for their cool Daemon Hunting fluff and teleporting pure Terminator armoured elite forces - so for me the new book is looking good to go. (wish I could keep my old halberds though ;-)
I wouldn't mind half the losses if we could stick psycannons onto our vehicles; we used to be able to proxy with an assault cannon with psybolt ammo. It made my Land Raider Redeemer fun to use STR 7 AP3 Flamer template, STR 7 AP 4 Rending Psycannon, could fit my Termie squad and a IC. Now we don't have that :(
EDIT: Also Purgation Squads can't deepstrike, that was a typo.
Well I guess we might actually see Grey Knights in an army rather than the superior henchman. I'd be pissed at the removal of Inq. stuff but i guess they still have their own dex so no real loss. Interestingly, the Inq. dex still technically has psybolts and psychic pilot for now.
Everything that was good in the previous Grey Knight codex has been nerfed to shreds. Everything. Not just the removal of Inq and Valeria and henchmen, not just the removal of Assassins, not just the removal of Mordrak and Thawn and the Brotherhood Champion, I mean literally everything. Psycannons on non termies? Nerf. Halberds? Bleh. Swords on termies? Bleh. Psycannons on vehicles? Nope. Rifleman Dreads? Bleh. Psybolt Ammo? Nope. Rad grenades? gone. Psychotroke grenades? gone.
We're not haters or whiners, we're just expressing our shock at witnessing our army butchered in front of our very eyes.
The only thing good about the new codex are cheaper Dreadknights (especially with teleporters), cheaper Libbys, cheaper Apothecary upgrades, better psilencers and an even more powerful Draigo.
Pretty much everything else took a beating with the nerfbat.
buddha wrote: Well I guess we might actually see Grey Knights in an army rather than the superior henchman. I'd be pissed at the removal of Inq. stuff but i guess they still have their own dex so no real loss. Interestingly, the Inq. dex still technically has psybolts and psychic pilot for now.
Unless you factor in the cost of the added books....
Everything that was good in the previous Grey Knight codex has been nerfed to shreds.
We're not haters or whiners, we're just expressing our shock at witnessing our army butchered in front of our very eyes.
The only thing good about the new codex are cheaper Dreadknights (especially with teleporters), cheaper Libbys, cheaper Apothecary upgrades and an even more powerful Draigo.
Pretty much everything else took a beating with the nerfbat.
They will be awesome allies for a libby, a termy squad and a NDK.... That's as far as I'd take them though.
That said I can already see someone using dual CAD to run 6 dreadknights
WisdomLS wrote: I understand peoples annoyance at the general loss of power and utility on a number of units but speaking for myself I got into playing GK's for their cool Daemon Hunting fluff and teleporting pure Terminator armoured elite forces - so for me the new book is looking good to go. (wish I could keep my old halberds though ;-)
I wouldn't mind half the losses if we could stick psycannons onto our vehicles; we used to be able to proxy with an assault cannon with psybolt ammo. It made my Land Raider Redeemer fun to use STR 7 AP3 Flamer template, STR 7 AP 4 Rending Psycannon, could fit my Termie squad and a IC. Now we don't have that :(
EDIT: Also Purgation Squads can't deepstrike, that was a typo.
This. The psycannons on vehicles is a huge Nerf. Not to mention I Own a Forgeworld Redeemer with Psycannons and incinerators, as well as 3 razorbacks with Forgeworld Psycannons turrets. I now have very little use for these :(
I wouldn't mind half the losses if we could stick psycannons onto our vehicles; we used to be able to proxy with an assault cannon with psybolt ammo. It made my Land Raider Redeemer fun to use STR 7 AP3 Flamer template, STR 7 AP 4 Rending Psycannon, could fit my Termie squad and a IC. Now we don't have that :(
EDIT: Also Purgation Squads can't deepstrike, that was a typo.
There is a FW option for vehicle psycanons. I want to say it was either the same or 5 points more expensive than assault cannon+psybolt ammo though, which made it of dubious utility back in the day.
Here's stuff posted from a guy who has the codex on /tg/. I take this as his timestamp:
many nerfs.. some buffs. i still like it however.. some neat combinations are possible now. for instance a libby with 3 rolls on telepathy and 1-2 additional rolls on sanctic.
melee weapons:
nemesis force sword: s user ap 3 melee, daemonbane, force.
nemesis force halberd: s +1 ap 3 melee, two handed, daemonbane, force.
daemonbane: a unit that activates its force weapons may reroll all failed to wound and armour pen rolls on enemys with the daemon special rule.
servo arm: same as marines. sx2 ap 1 melee, specialist weapon, unwieldly.
ranged weapons:
psycannon: 24" s7 ap 4 salvo 2/4, rending (hard nerf for PAGK )
heavy psycannon: 2 fire modes:
scattered: 24" s7 ap 4 heavy 1,blast 5", rending
concentrated: 24" s7 ap 4 salvo 3/6, rending
psylencer: 24" s4 ap- heavy 6, force
gatling psylencer: 24" s 4 ap - heavy 12. force
that force addition might become nice but no longer wounds daemons on 4+.
incinerator: template S6 ap 4, assault 1, soul blaze
heavy incinerator: template S6 ap 4 heavy 1, torrent, soul blaze.
psyk out grenades: enemy psyker that assault a unit with these does not gain +1 attack.
you can throw psyk out grenades now:
8" s2 ap - assault 1, blast 3", psy shock
psy shock: a random psyker within the unit suffers a perils of the warp if the unit is hit.
Army wide Special rules:
Aegis: a unit that contains at least one model with this special rule rerolls all rolls of 1 on deny the witch rolls.
spiritual purity: cannot use malefic daemonology. only perils on double 6's when casting sanctic.
Combat squads: (we all know this one)
Warlord Traits:
1: daemonhunter:
the warlord has the hatred (daemons) special rule. when the warlord casts the banishment psychic power he succeeds in channeling on a 2+ on the warp charge rolls instead of 4+.
2: hammer of righteousnes:
the warlord and his unit gain the hammer of wrath USR
3: unyielding anvil:
the warlord and all units of codex: grey knights within 12" gain the stubborn usr
4: the first in the battle:
if you place the warlord and his unit in deepstrike reserve he arrives on turn 1 and can reroll the scatter dice.
5: master of counterattack:
the warlord and his unit gain the counter attack USR
6: master scholar:
the warlord may roll one additional psychic power when generating psychic powers. this power has to be from the daemonology: sanctic discipline.
RELICS
brotherhood banner: allied units of codex: grey knights within 12" of model with the banner reroll failed morale tests. in additon all models in the same unit as the banner bearer gain +1 attack.
reliks (suck mostly.. but are cheap..)
deimos rage: stormbolter with 36" s4 ap 5 assault 3, master crafted, precision shots.
domina liber daemonica:
the wielder of this relik can roll for a additional psychic power. this power has to be generated from the daemonology: sanctic discipline.
in addition every allied unit of codex: grey knights within 6" of the model with this relik can reroll all rolls of 1 when they try to channel daemonology: sanctic powers.
bone shard of solor:
the bearer gains a 3+ invulnerable save if he is within 12" of a model with the special rule daemon. this invulnerable save becomes a 2+ if a model with the special rule daemon of khorne is within 12". in addition the bearer also gains the hatred: khorne special rule.
armor of martyrs:
terminator armour with 2+/5++. the user gains it will not die, relentless, feel no pain, bulky and cannot sweeping advance.
nemesis banner:
allied units of codex: grey knights within 12" gain the fearless usr. all units in the same units as the banner gain +1 attack. all daemons with the daemon usr treat all terrain within 12" of the model with the banner as dangerous terrain. even open terrain counts as dangerous.
the soulgleeve:
s+ 1 ap 3 melee, daemonbane, force, soulprint(sp?), two handed.
soulprint: a character that wields the soulgliev may reroll all failed channel rolls when activating the forceweapon. in addition the wielder rerolls all failed to hit, to wound and armour pen rolls when the gleeves force effect is active. (against everything, not only daemons)
now to the beef, points:
ARMORY
melee weapons:
a model may replace his melee weapon with one of the following:
nemesis force halberd: 2pts
2 nemesis force falchions: 4pts
nemesis force stave: 5pts
nemesis daemonhammer: 10pts
special weapons:
a model may replace his stormbolter and melee weapon for one of the following:
incinerator: 5pts
psylencer: 10pts
psycannon: 15pts
termionator special weapons:
a model may replace his stormbolter for one of the following:
incinerator: 10pts
psylencer: 15 pts
psycannon: 20 pts
special equipment:
a model may take:
melta bombs: 5pts
digital weapons: 10 pts
teleport homer: 10pts
making one of his weapons master crafted: 10 pts
reliks:
per army each one may only be taken once. a modell may take a single:
deimos rage: 10 pts (replaces stormbolter)
bne shard of solor: 10 pts
armour of martyrs: 15 pts (replaces the terminator armour of the model)
soulgleeve 20 pts (replaces the melee weapon of the model)
domina liber daemonica: 25pts
dreadnought weapons:
may switch multimelta for:
TL autocannon: 5 pts
TL heavy bolter: 5pts
TL heavy flamer: 5pts
plasmacannon: 10 pts
assault cannon: 20 pts
TL lascannon: 25 pts
buddha wrote: Well I guess we might actually see Grey Knights in an army rather than the superior henchman. I'd be pissed at the removal of Inq. stuff but i guess they still have their own dex so no real loss. Interestingly, the Inq. dex still technically has psybolts and psychic pilot for now.
Unless you factor in the cost of the added books....
Yeah.
And being forced to have two GK squads of troops (could've had a bunch of purifiers or interceptors with henchmen... can't do that with the new dex)
And being forced to use a GKhq rather than an Inq one. On top of that 2 HQs are required to run GK/Inquisition rather than only one HQ before.
So besides paying around a hundred bucks for three codices to replace the old one, besides what I said above, besides all of the purely GK things stripped from the new codex (mordrak, thrawn, psybolts etc; ). No real loss.
Everything that was good in the previous Grey Knight codex has been nerfed to shreds. Everything. Not just the removal of Inq and Valeria and henchmen, not just the removal of Assassins, not just the removal of Mordrak and Thawn and the Brotherhood Champion, I mean literally everything. Psycannons on non termies? Nerf. Halberds? Bleh. Psycannons on vehicles? Nope. Rifleman Dreads? Bleh. Psybolt Ammo? Nope.
We're not haters or whiners, we're just expressing our shock at witnessing our army butchered in front of our very eyes.
The only thing good about the new codex are cheaper Dreadknights (especially with teleporters), cheaper Libbys, cheaper Apothecary upgrades, better psilencers and an even more powerful Draigo.
Pretty much everything else took a beating with the nerfbat.
Yep. They'll be amazing allies and I suspect most marine players will look at them as their primary allies to get cheap ML3 units, but that's about it. I can't work out how this army is supposed to operate on its own unless you happen to be up against a demon or footslogging list.
At least so far it doesn't look like you're getting orked, where your army no longer functions on a basic level.
I think forced range weapons are a real wildcard. So much stuff doesn't have EW... and all you have to do is fail one save... sure the probabilities are low, but I can see that sort of thing absolutely ruining someones day
Goresaw wrote: At least so far it doesn't look like you're getting orked, where your army no longer functions on a basic level.
I think forced range weapons are a real wildcard. So much stuff doesn't have EW... and all you have to do is fail one save... sure the probabilities are low, but I can see that sort of thing absolutely ruining someones day
Explain real quick what happened to orks; as far as I was aware they got nerfed but didn't lose any models, and the nerfs were on Mob rule and Flash Gitz.
Lol I just realized something else. The inquisition digital codex doesn't have troops. So no objective secured henchmen. Yet another thing splitting the codex into pieces has lost us.
"no real loss" indeed. Lol it's so funny someone can think that.
Super Newb wrote: Lol I just realized something else. The inquisition digital codex doesn't have troops. So no objective secured henchmen. Yet another thing splitting the codex into pieces has lost us.
"no real loss" indeed. Lol it's so funny someone can think that.
That's been like that since it came out. Not to mention Inquisition can't take a CAD, which is the real requirement for Obsec, not Troops. So yeah, welcome to two months ago.
Super Newb wrote: Lol I just realized something else. The inquisition digital codex doesn't have troops. So no objective secured henchmen. Yet another thing splitting the codex into pieces has lost us.
"no real loss" indeed. Lol it's so funny someone can think that.
That's been like that since it came out. Not to mention Inquisition can't take a CAD, which is the real requirement for Obsec, not Troops. So yeah, welcome to two months ago.
Uh why would I give two craps about the inquisition codex when I already had the GK one? I'm only reading up on it now as I will need to shell out for it to make my army playable. :(
But seriously I'm looking at my three dreadknights and wondering if I can make a 4th I love me some dreadknights. I'll judge the book fully when I read it. There were quite a few little quirks in the SW book that were posted wrong or missed that seriously affected it's power level.
Super Newb wrote: Uh why would I give two craps about the inquisition codex when I already had the GK one? I'm only reading up on it now as I will need to shell out for it to make my army playable. :(
Anyone who thought about it for two seconds when the Inquisition dex came out it was the first step in them being removed from C:GK. Hence why a lot of people are completely unsurprised that... Inquisition were removed from Codex:GK.
Hulksmash wrote: But seriously I'm looking at my three dreadknights and wondering if I can make a 4th I love me some dreadknights. I'll judge the book fully when I read it. There were quite a few little quirks in the SW book that were posted wrong or missed that seriously affected it's power level.
Yep. The same thing that happens every time we get a new book. lol Oh well.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Quickjager wrote: Pretre I am looking at a damn scan of the book right now
Trust me on this.
I'm sure you are, but I don't know you from a hole in the wall.
Super Newb wrote: Uh why would I give two craps about the inquisition codex when I already had the GK one? I'm only reading up on it now as I will need to shell out for it to make my army playable. :(
Anyone who thought about it for two seconds when the Inquisition dex came out it was the first step in them being removed from C:GK. Hence why a lot of people are completely unsurprised that... Inquisition were removed from Codex:GK.
Sorry, I am not going to waste my time reading up on codex: copy paste unless I have to. And now apparently I have to.
So I can get a DK with a teleporter, sword, h. incinerator, h. psycannon for 10pts less than my current model with a teleporter and h. incinerator. I'm in.
Oh, that rule 4. It tends not to be enforced as much previous to release. Also, there's a world of difference between hotlinking and hosting on dakka. Lastly, you might want to not swear so much.
Awesome info drop(the amount of info not the content lol). Thanks dude!
Auto cannon dread with only S7 shots is 10 points more than the old rifle dread with S8 shots. Lol. At least a DK with teleporter, incinerator and heavy psycannon is only 215 points.
Sir Arun wrote: Am I blind or can you no longer replace the multi-melta arm on the GK dread???
Well, you can replace the CC arm with one of those two guns, and then there's the thing below at the bottom of the list saying you can take things from the list.
Maybe you don't ever actually LOSE the multimelta? Maybe it's a hilariously halfassed typo in a hilariously halfassed codex?.
Sir Arun wrote: Am I blind or can you no longer replace the multi-melta arm on the GK dread???
Well, you can replace the CC arm with one of those two guns, and then there's the thing below at the bottom of the list saying you can take things from the list.
Maybe you don't ever actually LOSE the multimelta? Maybe it's a hilariously halfassed typo in a hilariously halfassed codex?.
Dreadnought weapons says you replace the multi-melta.
I skimmed through these pages, I see confirmation that no units have the option for Psybolt ammo. And unless I missed it, no unit comes with it by default. Does that sound right?
Both purifiers and strike squad guys went up slightly on price. I guess to pay for their sergeant / justicar character. That coupled with the psycannon nerf and the lack of psychic pilot is bad news for PAGK.
The only buff there is interceptors with incinerators are cheaper.
Strikes in a las/plas or tl-las razorback are about the only reason I can see to take them. Get some much needed long range fire in the list. I suppose 10 PAGK with incenerators in a rhino, combat squaded (DS one combat squad if needed for maelstrom and the like) but man lotta points there.
That's kinda cool. Looks like they removed Psybolt ammo altogether and cut down on the psychic pilot stuff.
Looks like a relatively cut down release from the last book. I like the cheap termi's, everything else looks mostly the same (was the Dreadknight always absurdly cheap?), and some of the more insane things like 5pt psybolt removed. The lack of henchmen may hurt though.
Super Newb wrote: Both purifiers and strike squad guys went up slightly on price. I guess to pay for their sergeant / justicar character. That coupled with the psycannon nerf and the lack of psychic pilot is bad news for PAGK.
The only buff there is interceptors with incinerators are cheaper.
I disagree. Purifiers being ML2 psykers who come standard with cleansing flame (was like that before, ML2 is new) is nothing to be sneezed at. They will not want to take psycannons anymore though...
But with 2 incinerators on them in a rhino and the fact that you can cast their nove out of the tophatch, they are pretty decent at busting hordes. Especially if you consider that they only clock in at 170p in that formation. True pyromaniacs!
Incinerators on interceptors is also really good as well.
Purgation squads and strike squads are dead though... Sad... :(
easysauce wrote: ummmm no, you are just wrong sorry, st 3, with *6* shots per gun means that even when fishing for 6's you have a decent chance to insta gib stuff...
A 1/27 chance to put a single wound on a carnifex and a 1/54 chance to put a wound on a Riptide or swooping T6 5++ FMC is a "decent chance"?
And those calculations were made at strength 4, for the record.
WrentheFaceless wrote: May have to get a crusader for my draigo ball since its 7 models, blegh.
I'm actually going to attempt that with an ordo malleus inquisitor with liber heresius to give that unit scout move in the LR. I believe that allows it to drive forward 12" before the game even starts... it could mean that you end up with a turn 1 charge for draigo and his palladins. 8 terminators in a single unit will sting. If you toss in a personal teleporter, you might be able to shunt all 3 DKs in for a second turn charge fest as well with those guys. ;-)
WrentheFaceless wrote: May have to get a crusader for my draigo ball since its 7 models, blegh.
I'm actually going to attempt that with an ordo malleus inquisitor with liber heresius to give that unit scout move in the LR. I believe that allows it to drive forward 12" before the game even starts... it could mean that you end up with a turn 1 charge for draigo and his palladins. 8 terminators in a single unit will sting. If you toss in a personal teleporter, you might be able to shunt all 3 DKs in for a second turn charge fest as well with those guys. ;-)
Cant charge if you scout turn 1, in the scout rules.
Auswin wrote: Is there something I'm missing with brother captains and grand masters? I see no benefit taking either at their points over a champion or ML3 libby
Captains/GM have better stat lines, more wounds, better invuln saves. So i guess if you want something a bit more durable?
Having my codex in hand at the moment... GW has really hammered GKs into the ground this time. Strike squads sub par, paladins sub par, Crowe and Champion useless, Purgation squad pointless, etc etc.
The ONLY things this codex has to offer are the buffed purifiers, interceptors, cheap dreadknights, cheap librarian and decent terminators. Somehow, it seems that the elite dread knights have become even more elite without the substance to back it up.
I'd rather have the tyranid codex than this pile of half assed crap.
Aaaah, shame. Oh well... Guess it'll be whole lot charging in turn 2 then... Still a scary prospect to get that deployed in front of your nose in the first turn. Deadlier and more reliable than the deepstrike move I reckon.
chnmmr wrote: Having my codex in hand at the moment... GW has really hammered GKs into the ground this time. Strike squads sub par, paladins sub par, Crowe and Champion useless, Purgation squad pointless, etc etc.
The ONLY things this codex has to offer are the buffed purifiers, interceptors, cheap dreadknights, cheap librarian and decent terminators. Somehow, it seems that the elite dread knights have become even more elite without the substance to back it up.
I'd rather have the tyranid codex than this pile of half assed crap.
How are paladins sub par? They didnt change, and their apothecary got 55 points cheaper.
chnmmr wrote: Having my codex in hand at the moment... GW has really hammered GKs into the ground this time. Strike squads sub par, paladins sub par, Crowe and Champion useless, Purgation squad pointless, etc etc.
The ONLY things this codex has to offer are the buffed purifiers, interceptors, cheap dreadknights, cheap librarian and decent terminators. Somehow, it seems that the elite dread knights have become even more elite without the substance to back it up.
I'd rather have the tyranid codex than this pile of half assed crap.
How are paladins sub par? They didnt change, and their apothecary got 55 points cheaper.
chnmmr wrote: Having my codex in hand at the moment... GW has really hammered GKs into the ground this time. Strike squads sub par, paladins sub par, Crowe and Champion useless, Purgation squad pointless, etc etc.
The ONLY things this codex has to offer are the buffed purifiers, interceptors, cheap dreadknights, cheap librarian and decent terminators. Somehow, it seems that the elite dread knights have become even more elite without the substance to back it up.
I'd rather have the tyranid codex than this pile of half assed crap.
How are paladins sub par? They didnt change, and their apothecary got 55 points cheaper.
chnmmr wrote: Having my codex in hand at the moment... GW has really hammered GKs into the ground this time. Strike squads sub par, paladins sub par, Crowe and Champion useless, Purgation squad pointless, etc etc.
The ONLY things this codex has to offer are the buffed purifiers, interceptors, cheap dreadknights, cheap librarian and decent terminators. Somehow, it seems that the elite dread knights have become even more elite without the substance to back it up.
I'd rather have the tyranid codex than this pile of half assed crap.
How are paladins sub par? They didnt change, and their apothecary got 55 points cheaper.
chnmmr wrote: Having my codex in hand at the moment... GW has really hammered GKs into the ground this time. Strike squads sub par, paladins sub par, Crowe and Champion useless, Purgation squad pointless, etc etc.
The ONLY things this codex has to offer are the buffed purifiers, interceptors, cheap dreadknights, cheap librarian and decent terminators. Somehow, it seems that the elite dread knights have become even more elite without the substance to back it up.
I'd rather have the tyranid codex than this pile of half assed crap.
How do you reckon palladins got the shaft? with their new dirt cheap apothecary, I think they got better. With the changes to halberds, you might even want to consider some falchions on them for some insane damage output in melee now.
And can we knock on your door when GW-legal decided to shut down this forum?
So please, remove those. A link to the /tg/ would be enough, despite not being fully allowed.
chnmmr wrote: Having my codex in hand at the moment... GW has really hammered GKs into the ground this time. Strike squads sub par, paladins sub par, Crowe and Champion useless, Purgation squad pointless, etc etc.
The ONLY things this codex has to offer are the buffed purifiers, interceptors, cheap dreadknights, cheap librarian and decent terminators. Somehow, it seems that the elite dread knights have become even more elite without the substance to back it up.
I'd rather have the tyranid codex than this pile of half assed crap.
How are paladins sub par? They didnt change, and their apothecary got 55 points cheaper.
Besides all the weapon nerfs all around?
Which except for psybolt doesnt effect paladins?
Well mostly the Nemesis weapons. no more 4+ invul, or Initative + n stuff.
chnmmr wrote: Having my codex in hand at the moment... GW has really hammered GKs into the ground this time. Strike squads sub par, paladins sub par, Crowe and Champion useless, Purgation squad pointless, etc etc.
The ONLY things this codex has to offer are the buffed purifiers, interceptors, cheap dreadknights, cheap librarian and decent terminators. Somehow, it seems that the elite dread knights have become even more elite without the substance to back it up.
I'd rather have the tyranid codex than this pile of half assed crap.
How do you reckon palladins got the shaft? with their new dirt cheap apothecary, I think they got better. With the changes to halberds, you might even want to consider some falchions on them for some insane damage output in melee now.
I have 10 Paladins including 6 Halberds...I like Str5 base. Sure, the Int bonus would have been nice but I think between them they could tackle a Wraightknight if they get there. And with that new detachment for T1 goodiess.....
Edit; Also, anyone know what Swords are like this time around? I just built 5 Termies with them and a Psilincer... is it just AP3?
Super Newb wrote: Both purifiers and strike squad guys went up slightly on price. I guess to pay for their sergeant / justicar character. That coupled with the psycannon nerf and the lack of psychic pilot is bad news for PAGK.
The only buff there is interceptors with incinerators are cheaper.
I disagree. Purifiers being ML2 psykers who come standard with cleansing flame (was like that before, ML2 is new) is nothing to be sneezed at. They will not want to take psycannons anymore though...
But with 2 incinerators on them in a rhino and the fact that you can cast their nove out of the tophatch, they are pretty decent at busting hordes. Especially if you consider that they only clock in at 170p in that formation. True pyromaniacs!
Incinerators on interceptors is also really good as well.
Purgation squads and strike squads are dead though... Sad... :(
Ah ha, I missed that ML 2 bit! Ok that's not as bad then.
Auswin wrote: Paladins got better overall, but in terms of how much cheaper terminators got I'd say pallies are demonstrably worse.
With the over-abundance of high strength AP2 weaponry it feels like a waste to take Paladins at 55 pts a model over 33 pt terminators.
Wait... am I reading this wrong or can an entire squad of paladins take Iron Halos? It's under the special-issue wargear
That's what I meant, Paladin's don't compare cost wise to Terminators I don't think. And As much as I'd like it to be so, the wargear bit must be a misprint.
I ran 2x5 Paladins with Halberd/Apothecary+Stave/Hammer+SB/Hammer+PsyCan/Banner
And
5 Halberd and 1 Psycannon.
I had a Terminator Squad I was in the process of building with 4x Sword, 1 Psilincer and the Justicar either Stave for the challenges, Thawn because he's awesome or Sword for cheapness. Never fielded and not even painted yet.
oh no one of the most OP books in 5th 6th and 7th is getting hit with a nerf bat who knew, next thing you know tau and eldar are gonna get nerfed and people are gonna riot. get over it
zearas wrote: oh no one of the most OP books in 5th 6th and 7th is getting hit with a nerf bat who knew, next thing you know tau and eldar are gonna get nerfed and people are gonna riot. get over it
They've been around middle tier at best since the end of 5th.
zearas wrote: oh no one of the most OP books in 5th 6th and 7th is getting hit with a nerf bat who knew, next thing you know tau and eldar are gonna get nerfed and people are gonna riot. get over it
They've been around middle tier at best since the end of 5th.
Come on, it was no earlier than mid 6th when they got knocked down a peg. Until the first 6e FAQs made Paladins no longer characters, among other things, and until Eldar and Tau GK were still uber good.
Looks like an errata needs to come out telling me I can't equip my justicars with storm shields and plasma cutters. IE. Numerous entries stating they can take special issue gear >_>
Personal teleporting iron halo paladins with storm shields and plasma cutters.. heh... proofreading.
chnmmr wrote: Looks like an errata needs to come out telling me I can't equip my justicars with storm shields and plasma cutters. IE. Numerous entries stating they can take special issue gear >_>
zearas wrote: oh no one of the most OP books in 5th 6th and 7th is getting hit with a nerf bat who knew, next thing you know tau and eldar are gonna get nerfed and people are gonna riot. get over it
They've been around middle tier at best since the end of 5th.
Come on, it was no earlier than mid 6th when they got knocked down a peg. Until the first 6e FAQs made Paladins no longer characters, among other things, and until Eldar and Tau GK were still uber good.
I will concede that. The statement that they were "one of the most OP books in 5th 6th and 7th" is still incredibly inaccurate.
chnmmr wrote: Looks like an errata needs to come out telling me I can't equip my justicars with storm shields and plasma cutters. IE. Numerous entries stating they can take special issue gear >_>
The special issue wargear listed with point costs, not all the wargear.
Come on, it was no earlier than mid 6th when they got knocked down a peg. Until the first 6e FAQs made Paladins no longer characters, among other things, and until Eldar and Tau GK were still uber good.
Actually, the minute 6th landed GKs took a steep plummet.
- Rapid fire changes drastically reduced the huge advantage they had in the shooting phase with their storm bolters... You couldn't just win every mid-range shoot-out.
- Power/Force weapons changed to only be AP3 also hurt.
- Light vehicles like the previously supremely undercosted psyback went from almost impossible to kill to "easy to glance to bits" due to Hull Points.
The palladin change was the least of their "worries" during 6th. Eldar and Tau just took over when their books hit., but prior to that, necron croissant and IG vendetta spam was all the outrage.
They are comparable. What is the issue? The GK one lets you assault and fire all three shots regardless of range.
Honestly, the amount of tears spilling forth on this thread is hilarious.
I you are upset about losing the Inquisition forces and assassins, you can just include them as allies. If you are crying about needing to buy other books, the Inquisition book is identical to the old GK rules in almost every way with one or two items being different in points.
Come on, the only way anyone can legitimately take issue with this is if they were pining for some grand shift in fluff and concept from a new book and they are upset that the book isn't completely redoing the army.
My silver lining is that dreadknights have sanctuary now (4++ yay), and are much cheaper. I run a lot of termies anyway and those are cheaper too.
Being able to spit a bunch of force weapons via the previously terrible psilencer at MCs is an interesting thought (looking at you riptide). Draigowing has gate of infinity by default now, but you'll probably need to throw a Libby in there for prescience. If you throw Stern in there you can get a 2++ Draigo.
No more Mordrak...but maybe that detachment will make up for it.
We'll see.
chnmmr wrote:Looks like an errata needs to come out telling me I can't equip my justicars with storm shields and plasma cutters. IE. Numerous entries stating they can take special issue gear >_>
Personal teleporting iron halo paladins with storm shields and plasma cutters.. heh... proofreading.
Unless you are looking at a different picture to me, the Wargear list only drops Digital Weapons, Personal Teleporter, Meltabombs and 1 Master Crafted weapon for SIW.
No more 10 Paladins with all 18 melee and guns MC then?
The loss of all FoC modifications in 7th edition books so far is an example of the disconnect between the designers and the playerbase.
Unbound makes such rules unnecessary. Unless of course you house ruled it out immediately (or preemptively in the case of many people here as 7th's details leaked) Which seems to be an incredibly pervasive mindset.
chnmmr wrote:Looks like an errata needs to come out telling me I can't equip my justicars with storm shields and plasma cutters. IE. Numerous entries stating they can take special issue gear >_>
Personal teleporting iron halo paladins with storm shields and plasma cutters.. heh... proofreading.
Unless you are looking at a different picture to me, the Wargear list only drops Digital Weapons, Personal Teleporter, Meltabombs and 1 Master Crafted weapon for SIW.
No more 10 Paladins with all 18 melee and guns MC then?
Don't mind me, I was misreading the wrong special issue gear list. >_>
Come on, it was no earlier than mid 6th when they got knocked down a peg. Until the first 6e FAQs made Paladins no longer characters, among other things, and until Eldar and Tau GK were still uber good.
Actually, the minute 6th landed GKs took a steep plummet.
- Rapid fire changes drastically reduced the huge advantage they had in the shooting phase with their storm bolters... You couldn't just win every mid-range shoot-out.
- Power/Force weapons changed to only be AP3 also hurt.
- Light vehicles like the previously supremely undercosted psyback went from almost impossible to kill to "easy to glance to bits" due to Hull Points.
The palladin change was the least of their "worries" during 6th. Eldar and Tau just took over when their books hit., but prior to that, necron croissant and IG vendetta spam was all the outrage.
Grey Knights ended up no worse for wear than the majority of armies through most of 6th.
Between their own flyer, instant Divination access, plenty of twin-linking, Henchmen shenanigans, masses of cheap transports, etc... they still stayed fairly solid until the disgusting Taudar bro-fisting nonsense took over.
All I'm honestly seeing here is a boatload of over entitlement, little different to the cries of those Daemon players in Fantasy who effectively whined that their Bloodletter horde + multiple MoS Tzheralds were no longer easy-mode.
PhillyT wrote: Honestly, the amount of tears spilling forth on this thread is hilarious.
I you are upset about losing the Inquisition forces and assassins, you can just include them as allies. If you are crying about needing to buy other books, the Inquisition book is identical to the old GK rules in almost every way with one or two items being different in points.
This sort of loaded wording does nothing positive for the discussion. Please dial down the hyperbole.
Eldarain wrote: The loss of all FoC modifications in 7th edition books so far is an example of the disconnect between the designers and the playerbase.
Unbound makes such rules unnecessary. Unless of course you house ruled it out immediately (or preemptively in the case of many people here as 7th's details leaked) Which seems to be an incredibly pervasive mindset.
Unbound is too open. The disparity between a fluffy list and a cheese list is far greater in unbound. It seems like I have to play unbound though if I want a list close to some of the lists I have now. Guess I'll have to spend time yammering about how I am not d-bag nor a fluff only player but want to run a halfway decent list that is closer to the 5th edition GK codex. I should read up on influential salesman tactics so I can have a chance of ever running an unbound list in a pick up game around here. Lol.
What a bad ass codex. I was disappointed with the Ork codex, but holy crap, they're gods compared to this glorified toilet paper.
Glad to see EVERY GK list that is quasi competitive will be Lv3 Librarian, 1 troop choice, 2 dreadknights and multiple detachments FROM LITERALLY ANY OTHER CODEX.
Psybolt coud have been the one saving grace to this. Could have been.
This is going to be a monobuild ally dex and little else. Those people who dont play GK but thought about starting a small force hit the jackpot - level 3 libby, Termies, and tooled up teleporting DKs
BlackRaven1987!! wrote: A lot of bummers however the psilencer is force now does that mean it can cause instant death?
Yep..
Well that is pretty awesome not sure if it enough to save the codex but still pretty darn good.
It has limited use :/ but potentially can do damage.
It burns through FNP and multi wound like it should but has the issue of actually wounding since most things you wana ID are higher T and or have great saves.
BlackRaven1987!! wrote: Don't have seventh edition rule book yet so I was wondering what the rule for adamantium will is?
+1 to deny the witch.
Which means a libby with ml3 and a staff is giving you a 3+ deny the witch on anything ml2 or lower, rerolling ones. At worst its a 4+. Which effectively means that grey knights are now immune to maledictions and witchfire powers.
BlackRaven1987!! wrote: Don't have seventh edition rule book yet so I was wondering what the rule for adamantium will is?
+1 to deny the witch.
Which means a libby with ml3 and a staff is giving you a 3+ deny the witch on anything ml2 or lower, rerolling ones. At worst its a 4+. Which effectively means that grey knights are now immune to maledictions and witchfire powers.
Immune would be a strong word when some armies can throw a dozen dice to that power, really resistant is better imo.
BlackRaven1987!! wrote: Don't have seventh edition rule book yet so I was wondering what the rule for adamantium will is?
+1 to deny the witch.
Well that kills nemesis warding staves they really have no point to take.
Well, as Psykers I believe GK normally get 4+DTW standard (although BoP may not count for the regular +1 bonus). And Adamantium will would make that 3+.
ML3 Librarians get 3+ standard against most psykers except named ones then. And +2Str. Str 8 in CC with Hammerhand anyone?
It is really a godsend vs other psykers.
The best DTW is Kharn the Betrayer, a single, underused character in what is considered a subpar book. The ML3 Libby with Stave is the next best thing assuming your opponent isn't using a ML3 or 4 psyker of their own...so CSM Sorcerers or DP, CD Lords of Change, Fateweaver or Blue Scribes, Eldar Farseers and Eldrad, Ahriman, The Swarmlord, Mephiston and Tiguirius.
BlackRaven1987!! wrote: Don't have seventh edition rule book yet so I was wondering what the rule for adamantium will is?
+1 to deny the witch.
Which means a libby with ml3 and a staff is giving you a 3+ deny the witch on anything ml2 or lower, rerolling ones. At worst its a 4+. Which effectively means that grey knights are now immune to maledictions and witchfire powers.
Immune would be a strong word when some armies can throw a dozen dice to that power, really resistant is better imo.
This is grey knights we're talking about. You can just throw a dozen dice back.
WrentheFaceless wrote: It warrants some experimenting, at least for the lower tougness multi wound annoying models.
It's performance is pretty middling against even sub-MC multi-wound units, unfortunately. It takes ~14 shots on average to kill a single TWC model, and five shots to kill a single Chaos Spawn- 9 shots to kill a Nurgle Spawn.
It looks to be pretty effective against swarms like nurglings and rippers though, I guess.
pizzaguardian wrote: We need some sort of reliability on those ds. How about an inquisitor with servo skulls from C:I ?
Tried to stay within the x2 source books limitation some tournaments mandate.
It is mostly 2 detachments actually and not 2 source books nowadays, so that list is already passing that with having 3 detachments. (Well BAO and Nova is like that as far as i can check atm)
WrentheFaceless wrote: It warrants some experimenting, at least for the lower tougness multi wound annoying models.
It's performance is pretty middling against even sub-MC multi-wound units, unfortunately. It takes ~14 shots on average to kill a single TWC model, and five shots to kill a single Chaos Spawn- 9 shots to kill a Nurgle Spawn.
It looks to be pretty effective against swarms like nurglings and rippers though, I guess.
Apologies if this is in a FAQ somewhere I missed, but if you combat squad a unit with Brotherhood of psykers, how does that impact generating warp charges?
I could see some interesting shenanigans with combat squadding purifiers if it indeed grants a bonus two charges for squadding them.
Auswin wrote: Apologies if this is in a FAQ somewhere I missed, but if you combat squad a unit with Brotherhood of psykers, how does that impact generating warp charges?
I could see some interesting shenanigans with combat squadding purifiers if it indeed grants a bonus two charges for squadding them.
Each squad counts separately and generates a charge each
So yes if you combat squad a 10 man purifier squad now, you'll get 4 dice out of it
I'm betting on the psilencer being one of those really annoying things that will always end up working spectacularly against you, but horribly if you use it yourself.
Brotherhood Champion got MURDERED. Straight up smashed face first into the dirt.
Cons
50 points more expensive.
-1ws
gains smash at the cost of attacks for everything in base contact or i10 d3 attacks
loses re-roll hits on charge
loses re-roll wounds
loses awesome Heroic Sacrifice
Pros
1 extra wound
Apparently Brotherhood Champions were super cheese tourny dominators before.
katfude wrote: Brotherhood Champion got MURDERED. Straight up smashed face first into the dirt.
Cons
50 points more expensive.
-1ws
gains smash at the cost of attacks for everything in base contact or i10 d3 attacks
loses re-roll hits on charge
loses re-roll wounds
loses awesome Heroic Sacrifice
Pros
1 extra wound
Apparently Brotherhood Champions were super cheese tourny dominators before.
They're effectively an even crappier, pricier and psychic version of the Emperor's Champion, and the EC is already pretty iffy for the price you pay for him. Crowe fares a little better, now that he has IC status so he can actually hide in units, Unfortunately he's bad in the sense that outside of challenges he sucks even worse than BC since he lost his 4+ rending rule so he fights with a single CCW with no AP at all. Even with Hammerhand for a 175 HQ choice it is pretty terrible.
katfude wrote: Brotherhood Champion got MURDERED. Straight up smashed face first into the dirt.
Cons
50 points more expensive.
-1ws
gains smash at the cost of attacks for everything in base contact or i10 d3 attacks
loses re-roll hits on charge
loses re-roll wounds
loses awesome Heroic Sacrifice
Pros
1 extra wound
Apparently Brotherhood Champions were super cheese tourny dominators before.
They're effectively an even crappier, pricier and psychic version of the Emperor's Champion, and the EC is already pretty iffy for the price you pay for him. Crowe fares a little better, now that he has IC status so he can actually hide in units, Unfortunately he's bad in the sense that outside of challenges he sucks even worse than BC since he lost his 4+ rending rule so he fights with a single CCW with no AP at all. Even with Hammerhand for a 175 HQ choice it is pretty terrible.
Yeah, almost all of Crowe's abilities were nerfed along with the Champion since they shared a few. Crowe dies, throws one normal punch, doesn't rend and everyone laughs at his dumb, useless corpse.
I've skimmed... I'll be enjoying my jerk chicken for dinner, but I have some stewed crow for some folks who derided me over the past week.
Then again, I'm the real "winner" as my army is unplayable as it stands without purchasing both a new book and several boxes of models to have two troops choices. Luckily I already fielded 3 Dreadknights, so I'm good there.
Or I'll keep investing in other games that don't invalidate players models and armies with new releases. You know, games that care about their players (or at least pretend a teeny bit).
Draigo does look awesome except the reduced toughness and strength, but I always fielded him with Paladins. His T5 was useful for FNP rolls. I see taking a Libby with the super TDA armor along with him since Coteaz is not as viable (though Libby + Draigo + Coteaz + Ordo Maleus + Paladins is probably the same points cost as the old unit?). But the points savings are now going to be eaten up by troop tax. And boy, does someone really not like power armor Grey Knights.
Edit: Sadly, Draigo is no longer an awesome inclusion in the "Mephistar" (Mephiston, Draigo, Corbulo, Preacher w/ Litanies in a Land Raider).
TheKbob wrote: I've skimmed... I'll be enjoying my jerk chicken for dinner, but I have some stewed crow for some folks who derided me over the past week.
Then again, I'm the real "winner" as my army is unplayable as it stands without purchasing both a new book and several boxes of models to have two troops choices. Luckily I already fielded 3 Dreadknights, so I'm good there.
Or I'll keep investing in other games that don't invalidate players models and armies with new releases. You know, games that care about their players (or at least pretend a teeny bit).
Draigo does look awesome except the reduced toughness and strength, but I always fielded him with Paladins. His T5 was useful for FNP rolls. I see taking a Libby with the super TDA armor along with him since Coteaz is not as viable (though Libby + Draigo + Coteaz + Ordo Maleus + Paladins is probably the same points cost as the old unit?). But the points savings are now going to be eaten up by troop tax. And boy, does someone really not like power armor Grey Knights.
Edit: Sadly, Draigo is no longer an awesome inclusion in the "Mephistar" (Mephiston, Draigo, Corbulo, Preacher w/ Litanies in a Land Raider).
Nah brah. Every army is legal and legit. Unbound yo!
As an ork player thoroughly depressed about having an attrition army that is punished for taking casualties, I have to wonder. If every 7th edition book is horrible... and no one likes their army.... is the edition now balanced? Or is this a 'if a tree falls in the woods, and no one is there' sort of thing. Is a game balanced if no one plays it?
Nah brah. Every army is legal and legit. Unbound yo!
I look forward to running Grand Master *REDACTED* and his *REDACTED* Knights. It's going to be great. I'm gonna get some crappy Grey Knight Models and put giant black bars that say "++REDACTED++" over the figures. Then I'm gonna roll for warlord traits and be like "I forgot what they even had! PSH!" and then deep strike mishap them every game as a cheeky reference to their mishap out of the codex.
Wolves get awesome flyers that can 1 hit kill... our flyers lose their psyker killing missiles, can't swap weapons per the leak, and lose psychic pilot.
Wolves get a ton of dreadnought options... ours get nerfed.
Wolves get a new LoW model and chariot... ours gets a stat nerf.
Wolves get new models period... we lose half our codex.
Seriously, the only winners in this book are interceptors and the librarian (which is a huge upgrade, don't get me wrong, but now all you will see are librarians).
Even our cheaper dreadknight loses force on his doom/power fists. He has to buy the sword to get force back, and that's pretty much all it does.
Killing out psychic pilot on each vehicle only saved us 5pts per and we lost even more than we gained on most vehicles, especially with psybolt gone.
It's ok though, Purifiers get night vision. We're all good now.
I would honestly be okay with these... bland (to put it nicely) codexes if the designers would give us some rational insight into what's going on.
Just a statement like "we realizes some armies were too powerful and we are trying to dial back on some of the craziness to deliver a more consistent power base across all armies".
instead all I see is this horrifying game of russian roulette. Everytime a new book is released its like putting the gun to your head and praying it clicks and you get a good codex. But so far the chambers lately are all loaded, and the players are blowing their heads off.
Goresaw wrote: I would honestly be okay with these... bland (to put it nicely) codexes if the designers would give us some rational insight into what's going on.
Just a statement like "we realizes some armies were too powerful and we are trying to dial back on some of the craziness to deliver a more consistent power base across all armies".
instead all I see is this horrifying game of russian roulette. Everytime a new book is released its like putting the gun to your head and praying it clicks and you get a good codex. But so far the chambers lately are all loaded, and the players are blowing their heads off.
I'd be okay with that notion, too. However, digging into my own limited knowledge on game design, it's been said that no one enjoys the nerfbat. Having something you enjoy, even if hilariously game breaking, go from good times to bad times is no bueno, more so in a hobby that involves hundreds of dollars and man hours of dedication. Instead, it can involve tweaking and making other options BETTER, not worse. People always spammed X? Was it because X was broken? If yes, tweak it, but not knee jerk. But is it because Y and Z are terrible choices? If yes, make those on par with X. We see it so often that a bunch of things get the nerf bat and then new "mono-builds," as it is said, pop out. Because only Y is good now and X is now bad and Z got worse, somehow.
valace2 wrote: ya know what really blows, with the abomination this codex is, I doubt I could even get half of what I paid for it on eBay.
I wanna know why they decided to completely shat on this army.
I just finished painting my entire GK army myself, which also happens to be my first fully painted army....but with how this codex turned out I don't even
know if i want to actually field them anymore
valace2 wrote: ya know what really blows, with the abomination this codex is, I doubt I could even get half of what I paid for it on eBay.
I wanna know why they decided to completely shat on this army.
I don't think they view them as armies anymore to be honest. I think they believe that everyone has fully embraced the "Take as many FoCs and Allies as needed or go Unbound if your idea merits it" approach to army creation.
It's why you hear people who are upset that their "X unit is troops" army is invalidated. Technically they are still valid and have a multitude of new options never seen before. However many communities are not embracing the design studios ideas (Many of which do seem more motivated by sales than game design IMO) So you have this fundamental disconnect between creator and player.
chnmmr wrote: Looks like an errata needs to come out telling me I can't equip my justicars with storm shields and plasma cutters. IE. Numerous entries stating they can take special issue gear >_>
Personal teleporting iron halo paladins with storm shields and plasma cutters.. heh... proofreading.
Because there are many people who's codex in reference is "their jam". Their army of choice and have spent a significant time on a special character, build or otherwise. Whatever the intentions (fluff, competitive, etc.), they identify with said choice as most people are want to do with their selections in life beyond even plastic army men. So if you spent a significant chunk of money and a large part of your time building and making a specific build to see it disappear is pretty heart breaking. On one end, you have builds that they enjoy go from playable to not. Or the worst, you see the entry entirely deleted.
So you see this happening every single codex because Games Workshop keeps doing this absolute horse gak with every recent codex release. People have had spore pod Nids armies, Ork biker gangs, Guard artillery or Chenkov/Al'Raheam based factions, and more all go *poof* into either unbound messes or deleted. This is utter garbage and absolutely doesn't happen with other gaming companies. And if it does, they get equally lambasted for it. Games Workshop deserves every bit of torching for doing this to fans and the "Do No Wrong" party that even tries to cover for this lack empathy entirely on the matter; they are just as bad or worse than the company doing it.
A game on it's Seventh Edition should not see army breaking game changes.
katfude wrote:Well, all our opponents can now take our Vindicares and blow all his toys up.
It fits the fluff reasons for having it, too. Technically he has 3 Invulnerable saves (SS, IH, TDA). Lysander is like this too.
Well I guess to all the MAD people saying there going to sell their stuff pm me pictures and your price I might just buy them. If you really even have a GK army I bet most the whiners own noda.
Fireraven wrote: Well I guess to all the MAD people saying there going to sell their stuff pm me pictures and your price I might just buy them. If you really even have a GK army I bet most the whiners own noda.
You can see my army in my gallery and I spent 4 months custom converting each model. The paint took an insane amount of layers because of the pigment being super thin given the color of choice. I will gladly negotiate a four figure price for all the effort I put into it along with the value of the models plus I'll throw in a carrying case. I'll even throw in the now Inquisition Detachment, all custom made, too, at no cost!
Fireraven wrote: Well I guess to all the MAD people saying there going to sell their stuff pm me pictures and your price I might just buy them. If you really even have a GK army I bet most the whiners own noda.
You can see my army in my gallery and I spent 4 months custom converting each model. The paint took an insane amount of layers because of the pigment being super thin given the color of choice. I will gladly negotiate a four figure price for all the effort I put into it along with the value of the models plus I'll throw in a carrying case. I'll even throw in the now Inquisition Detachment, all custom made, too, at no cost!
Psycannons are worthless on any model without Relentless. 12" S7 AP4 (2 shots) is not worth giving up a Storm Bolter AND a Nemesis Force Sword AND the ability to assault after shooting (even if it were a free exchange). But it would have been met with fanfair instead of dread if the range had just been increased to 36", so that the half range would have been 18".
Psilencers are still worthless even with Force. They have almost no chance of inflicting Instant Death being as they are only Str 4 and have no AP. I calculated a 7% chance of each shot successfully causing Instant Death on a T5 enemy. It is margionally better vs daemons since it gets some extra re-rolls against them, but they still get to use their best save. Psilencers would have been viable if their Strength was increased to 6, and it ignored the Invulnerable Save of models with the Daemon Special Rule.
Incinerators getting Soulblaze is epic. Psycannons didn't need a nerf to make people start bringing more Incinerators. But since the nerf happened, the Incinerator is the only special weapon worth taking on non-relentless units.
Psybolt Ammunition is gone. The number one upgrade for all vehicles that gave the Grey Knights a fighting chance against enemies who vastly outnumbered them at range, and it's gone, along with the viability of several vehicle builds.
The Grey Knights have been reduced to a gimmick. They are close combat Psykers, who can't cast their psychic powers when in close combat. They have been become a one-trick pony, and all of the builds are going to start looking alike, more so than the 5th edition Codex.
The Dreadknight is the only model that retains good mobility, good ranged firepower, and melee potential, so we will see a lot more of them showing up in every list. Apart from the HQ/T tax, all the rest of the points will be spent on Dreadknights, or allies.
Pyeatt wrote: KBOB, your grey knights are freaking amazing.
Thanks! Inspired by the Flash Gitz from their Trials of Lord Draigo. Failed to get army of the show at Feast last year, but the winner had some mind blowing Chaos army with some kit bashes that made my stuff look like hack work!
I mean, it's the real reason I'm pretty upset with this release. It took a lot of work!
ForeverARookie wrote: They are close combat Psykers, who can't cast their psychic powers when in close combat. They have been become a one-trick pony, and all of the builds are going to start looking alike, more so than the 5th edition Codex.
You keep repeating this, you're aware you can cast blessings and maledictions in combat right?
Fireraven wrote: Well I guess to all the MAD people saying there going to sell their stuff pm me pictures and your price I might just buy them. If you really even have a GK army I bet most the whiners own noda.
You can see my army in my gallery and I spent 4 months custom converting each model. The paint took an insane amount of layers because of the pigment being super thin given the color of choice. I will gladly negotiate a four figure price for all the effort I put into it along with the value of the models plus I'll throw in a carrying case. I'll even throw in the now Inquisition Detachment, all custom made, too, at no cost!
I seen your gallery although they are nice I did not see no where near enough for a 1k+ price tag i seenmaybe 3 squads 2 DK. The conversions are nice but that green would have to go. Although I seen your sister's are they painted yet those conversions looked bad to the bone. For that price tag I can get a pretty nice sized army and get them painted to spec in the uk and shipped to me. I'm currently trying to get a final total to have the Fury of Fenris pack painted and shipped to me.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I did give you a 10 for coolness and a 9 on paint foe the color. So that's 3 DK I seen updating from 2.
ForeverARookie wrote: They are close combat Psykers, who can't cast their psychic powers when in close combat. They have been become a one-trick pony, and all of the builds are going to start looking alike, more so than the 5th edition Codex.
You keep repeating this, you're aware you can cast blessings and maledictions in combat right?
It seems that his screen name is most appropriate...
Hulksmash wrote: So I can get a DK with a teleporter, sword, h. incinerator, h. psycannon for 10pts less than my current model with a teleporter and h. incinerator. I'm in.
Well, teleporter and heavy incinerator should be enough.
I'll spend the points freed for some other things: Termies, Dreads, not sure.
That's like saying you can ride this bike to work AND this Scooter.
Captains/GMs have iron halos its a fluff thing
Draigo is a Supreme GM thus having the iron halo
They are all like that. Look at Lysander or a Chapter Master
Also, it has some remote use in-game.
A vindicare can brake an invul item, but if you got another-you got a backup.
Andway, are we missing the most imoprtant thing?
Psylencers. FORCE. the Gatling one is 12 shots. pretty much "point and click removal" if you manage to turn up the force. against anything and everything without EW.
Well I have been looking at Crowe and yes Crowe by himself does not look impressive, but with my Purifier Squad [6 Models with 2 Incinerators] I see this...
Movement Phase: Gets within a few inches of a Unit
Psychic Phase: Crowe Cast Force
Crowe Cast Cleansing Flame
Purifier Squad Cast Hammer Hand
Purifier Squad Cleansing Flame
That comes out to 4d6 S5, AP4 Soul Blaze Attacks and everyone is now S6 Shooting Phase: 5x Storm Bolters and 2 Incinerators go off.
Assault Phase: [Assuming they all get to Assault]
I10] 7x S6 Hammer of Wrath Attacks
I6 Crow makes 4x WS8, S6, AP-, Force Attacks or 1x WS8, S10 AP2, Force Attack [Vs. Daemons with Re-Rolls]
I4 2x Halberds: 3x WS4, S7, AP3, Force Attacks [Vs. Daemons with Re-Rolls]
I4 1x Falchion 4x WS4, S6, AP3 Force Attacks [Vs. Daemons with Re-Rolls]
I4 2x Incinerators, 3x WS4, S6, AP-, Attacks [Vs. Daemons with Re-Rolls]
I1 1x Hammer, 3x WS4, S10, AP2, Force, Concussive Attacks [Vs. Daemons with Re-Rolls]
If I can pull this off it could be pretty Devastating, the only issue I am seeing is that I may blast my way out of Assault Range.
Andway, are we missing the most imoprtant thing?
Psylencers. FORCE. the Gatling one is 12 shots. pretty much "point and click removal" if you manage to turn up the force. against anything and everything without EW.
Beh.
Mathematically, against TEQ, you'll get .667 wounds with that shooting, and you have to get the force weapon to actually activate.
Against most nids monstrous creatures, you'll get .444 wounds. Not impressive.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Anpu42 wrote: Well I have been looking at Crowe and yes Crowe by himself does not look impressive, but with my Purifier Squad [6 Models with 2 Incinerators] I see this...
Movement Phase: Gets within a few inches of a Unit
Psychic Phase: Crowe Cast Force
Crowe Cast Cleansing Flame
Purifier Squad Cast Hammer Hand
Purifier Squad Cleansing Flame
That comes out to 4d6 S5, AP4 Soul Blaze Attacks and everyone is now S6 Shooting Phase: 5x Storm Bolters and 2 Incinerators go off.
Assault Phase: [Assuming they all get to Assault]
I10] 7x S6 Hammer of Wrath Attacks
I6 Crow makes 4x WS8, S6, AP-, Force Attacks or 1x WS8, S10 AP2, Force Attack [Vs. Daemons with Re-Rolls]
I4 2x Halberds: 3x WS4, S7, AP3, Force Attacks [Vs. Daemons with Re-Rolls]
I4 1x Falchion 4x WS4, S6, AP3 Force Attacks [Vs. Daemons with Re-Rolls]
I4 2x Incinerators, 3x WS4, S6, AP-, Attacks [Vs. Daemons with Re-Rolls]
I1 1x Hammer, 3x WS4, S10, AP2, Force, Concussive Attacks [Vs. Daemons with Re-Rolls]
If I can pull this off it could be pretty Devastating, the only issue I am seeing is that I may blast my way out of Assault Range.
Biggest problem is getting into that range. Gonna need a raider or a raven to do that. Next biggest problem is successfully casting all of that, especially since our rides aren't supplying nearly as much warp charge.
If you could pull it off, it'd be pretty funny though.
it's a 40%ish chance to ID any nid MC with a single model's shooting, less after DtW. it's not super broken but it's not some remote event in the farthest realms of impossibility, either.
Anpu42 wrote: Well I have been looking at Crowe and yes Crowe by himself does not look impressive, but with my Purifier Squad [6 Models with 2 Incinerators] I see this...
Movement Phase: Gets within a few inches of a Unit
Psychic Phase: Crowe Cast Force
Crowe Cast Cleansing Flame
Purifier Squad Cast Hammer Hand
Purifier Squad Cleansing Flame
That comes out to 4d6 S5, AP4 Soul Blaze Attacks and everyone is now S6 Shooting Phase: 5x Storm Bolters and 2 Incinerators go off.
Assault Phase: [Assuming they all get to Assault]
I10] 7x S6 Hammer of Wrath Attacks
I6 Crow makes 4x WS8, S6, AP-, Force Attacks or 1x WS8, S10 AP2, Force Attack [Vs. Daemons with Re-Rolls]
I4 2x Halberds: 3x WS4, S7, AP3, Force Attacks [Vs. Daemons with Re-Rolls]
I4 1x Falchion 4x WS4, S6, AP3 Force Attacks [Vs. Daemons with Re-Rolls]
I4 2x Incinerators, 3x WS4, S6, AP-, Attacks [Vs. Daemons with Re-Rolls]
I1 1x Hammer, 3x WS4, S10, AP2, Force, Concussive Attacks [Vs. Daemons with Re-Rolls]
If I can pull this off it could be pretty Devastating, the only issue I am seeing is that I may blast my way out of Assault Range.
Biggest problem is getting into that range. Gonna need a raider or a raven to do that. Next biggest problem is successfully casting all of that, especially since our rides aren't supplying nearly as much warp charge.
If you could pull it off, it'd be pretty funny though.
Probably in the Land Raider Redeemer, I usually put my Librarian and Paladin Squad in the Storm Raven.
Both the Transports just got Cheaper with out the Psi-Ammo
Kbob those are some amazing GK, I am jelly. Still, it is going to be a bit hard selling a GK army like mine that has only one knight in it.
As for everyone poo-pooing the GK players in this thread because it was their codex nerfed and not yours, I sincerely hope you grow-up, no one likes something they worked on being trashed. It means it more likely GW will go down this path in the future; lets take a saying and change it a bit.
First they came for the Tyranids, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Tyranid.
Then they came for the Orks, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Orks.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.
Also GK was mid tier, I wonder where everyone got the idea they were Tau and Eldar tier.
Anpu42 wrote: Well I have been looking at Crowe and yes Crowe by himself does not look impressive, but with my Purifier Squad [6 Models with 2 Incinerators] I see this...
Movement Phase: Gets within a few inches of a Unit
Psychic Phase: Crowe Cast Force
Crowe Cast Cleansing Flame
Purifier Squad Cast Hammer Hand
Purifier Squad Cleansing Flame
That comes out to 4d6 S5, AP4 Soul Blaze Attacks and everyone is now S6 Shooting Phase: 5x Storm Bolters and 2 Incinerators go off.
Assault Phase: [Assuming they all get to Assault]
I10] 7x S6 Hammer of Wrath Attacks
I6 Crow makes 4x WS8, S6, AP-, Force Attacks or 1x WS8, S10 AP2, Force Attack [Vs. Daemons with Re-Rolls]
I4 2x Halberds: 3x WS4, S7, AP3, Force Attacks [Vs. Daemons with Re-Rolls]
I4 1x Falchion 4x WS4, S6, AP3 Force Attacks [Vs. Daemons with Re-Rolls]
I4 2x Incinerators, 3x WS4, S6, AP-, Attacks [Vs. Daemons with Re-Rolls]
I1 1x Hammer, 3x WS4, S10, AP2, Force, Concussive Attacks [Vs. Daemons with Re-Rolls]
If I can pull this off it could be pretty Devastating, the only issue I am seeing is that I may blast my way out of Assault Range.
Crowe doesn't have a Force weapon, and Smash only comes into play when he can get in a challenge. He can just attack 4 times at S6 AP2 though, you don't have to replace an attack with the Smash rule with a single Sx2 attack. But yeah, that would require 4 successful psychic tests, out of which 2 are WP2 powers that can be denied with full DtW bonuses, and Crowe will have to be your Warlord.
Since i never owned a single DK, because to this day i cannot stand that awful awful model, does anyone know of a good alternative model for the DK since I'm forced to get at least 2 if i ever want to play my GKs again ?
Anpu42 wrote: Well I have been looking at Crowe and yes Crowe by himself does not look impressive, but with my Purifier Squad [6 Models with 2 Incinerators] I see this...
Movement Phase: Gets within a few inches of a Unit
Psychic Phase: Crowe Cast Force
Crowe Cast Cleansing Flame
Purifier Squad Cast Hammer Hand
Purifier Squad Cleansing Flame
That comes out to 4d6 S5, AP4 Soul Blaze Attacks and everyone is now S6 Shooting Phase: 5x Storm Bolters and 2 Incinerators go off.
Assault Phase: [Assuming they all get to Assault]
I10] 7x S6 Hammer of Wrath Attacks
I6 Crow makes 4x WS8, S6, AP-, Force Attacks or 1x WS8, S10 AP2, Force Attack [Vs. Daemons with Re-Rolls]
I4 2x Halberds: 3x WS4, S7, AP3, Force Attacks [Vs. Daemons with Re-Rolls]
I4 1x Falchion 4x WS4, S6, AP3 Force Attacks [Vs. Daemons with Re-Rolls]
I4 2x Incinerators, 3x WS4, S6, AP-, Attacks [Vs. Daemons with Re-Rolls]
I1 1x Hammer, 3x WS4, S10, AP2, Force, Concussive Attacks [Vs. Daemons with Re-Rolls]
If I can pull this off it could be pretty Devastating, the only issue I am seeing is that I may blast my way out of Assault Range.
Crowe doesn't have a Force weapon, and Smash only comes into play when he can get in a challenge. He can just attack 4 times at S6 AP2 though, you don't have to replace an attack with the Smash rule with a single Sx2 attack. But yeah, that would require 4 successful psychic tests, out of which 2 are WP2 powers that can be denied with full DtW bonuses, and Crowe will have to be your Warlord.
That's like saying you can ride this bike to work AND this Scooter.
Captains/GMs have iron halos its a fluff thing
Draigo is a Supreme GM thus having the iron halo
They are all like that. Look at Lysander or a Chapter Master
Also, it has some remote use in-game.
A vindicare can brake an invul item, but if you got another-you got a backup.
Assuming the dataslate is a copy and paste of the old Codex's rules then it removes all wargear granted invulnerable saves
"When a wound from this round is allocated to a model, that model loses any invulnerable saves granted by wargear immediately and for the rest of the battle. Remaining saves (if any) can then be taken."
Looky Likey wrote: The scans are up on the Mexican Ork's facebook page, I won't post them here due to the Mod post above. What do people think of the confirmed changes?
I think they are pretty awesome from what I've seen so far.
And I've seen them all, since I am working on their Battlescribe file
Looky Likey wrote: The scans are up on the Mexican Ork's facebook page, I won't post them here due to the Mod post above. What do people think of the confirmed changes?
I think they are pretty awesome from what I've seen so far.
And I've seen them all, since I am working on their Battlescribe file
Glad to hear it! I just spent my work shift doing a super rough battlescribe edit job to allow me to start painfully planning my newly restricted army and it's bueno for now, but can't wait to check out your shiny finished product!
Looky Likey wrote: The scans are up on the Mexican Ork's facebook page, I won't post them here due to the Mod post above. What do people think of the confirmed changes?
As a 40k player for 30 years i must admit that this relaese is a huge dissapointment, bouth as a fluffy player and a competetive player. The big four for me being:
- No new model or units
- All of inquisitor, henchmen and assassins gone. I can accept that GW take out those that don't have models and that Inq Xeno etc goes out. But Mallus Inquisitor, henchmen, stormtroopers and assassins should be there. Both for fluff and to flesh out the codex.
- Internal and external balance seems really bad.
- A lot of the nice unique wargear and powers for GK, which wasn't OP is taken out. Shure it's the same with other armies, but doesn't make it better.
I think this is really a lost opertunity for GW to make money. If I was in charge i would :
- Keep mallus inquisiors and relaese a plastic inqusitor modell with a lot of different weapons/options. Since a lot of people also ally in a inq., i think it would sell good.
- Keep henchmen and give GK some elite stormtroopers. Should boost sale for the stormtroopers.
- Give GK a jetbike options in fast slot. If GW don't want to invest in one, give GK access to the FW LEGION SCIMITAR PATTERN JETBIKE. It would be fluffy and good for sale.
- Some tweaks to units stats and wargear to make it better but not OP. I think most good players out there could do this in 10 min.
I'm assuming I can still Combat Squad my Purifiers to make them a shooty squad and a stabby squad? All the more important now that the Psycannon is Salvo.
what an oversight!
4chan ninja strikes again 
