drbored wrote: tbh the reason you don't hear much about AT from AT fans is because they're too busy building, painting, and playing AT.
It's a really good game with really good models, there's no impetus for them to come onto the forums and complain about a game that's genuinely really good. There was also a much more trusted rumormonger that suggested AT was one of the best-selling specialist games that GW has, and I wouldn't be surprised if that's the case.
Unlike other specialist games that need a small number of models like Blood Bowl and Necromunda, AT is a bit unique in that to get a proper sizeable force, you really do have to spend a pretty penny, but those pennies are going to gorgeous models that make fantastic maniples with balanced powers, flavorful legios, and fun stratagems that reward skillful play. There are a few issues keeping the game from perfect balance, but many AT players aren't the grindy competitive type, so it's easy enough to say "Yeah, maybe that Legio + Stratagem is too OP, just don't use that next time".
The Epic crowd, meanwhile, just wants to 3d print a bunch of leman russes and baneblades and play a game using GW rules and GW support but without paying GW a dime for the models they'd make.
(Yes I know this is hyperbolic, but from the few epic players I've met, this was really their entire desire).
No true scotsman (at fan) basically. So glad a "real" AT fan managed to materialize from the aether with gifts of enlightenment. Question, if the game is a winner for GW, why are they putting fewer and fewer resources into it? Why can't I get cards? Why can't I buy a thick card warmaster terminal? Help me understand, oh wise one
As for the epic thing, how exactly is any of this costing gw a dime seeing as it's a market they've clearly moved out of some time ago, the last epic model was a long time ago. Won't both getting into an ip battle, but to me it's pretty simple, the only someone is stealing from gw is if they currently make and sell the model in question, otherwise it's patently absurd. I couldn't give gw money for epic models right now if I wanted to.
drbored wrote: The Epic crowd, meanwhile, just wants to 3d print a bunch of leman russes and baneblades and play a game using GW rules and GW support but without paying GW a dime for the models they'd make.
(Yes I know this is hyperbolic, but from the few epic players I've met, this was really their entire desire).
...from what I keep seeing in this thread, there's a chunk of the AT "community" in that same (3D-printed) boat, drbored.
Absolutely, if gw doesn't want to make lucius pattern titans, I'll find someone who will. The lucius pattern "war dog" is so common the 2018 group had to change their stance on 3d printing because they basically were kicking everyone out for wanting to build and paint new models that gw was not selling.
drbored wrote: The Epic crowd, meanwhile, just wants to 3d print a bunch of leman russes and baneblades and play a game using GW rules and GW support but without paying GW a dime for the models they'd make.
(Yes I know this is hyperbolic, but from the few epic players I've met, this was really their entire desire).
...from what I keep seeing in this thread, there's a chunk of the AT "community" in that same (3D-printed) boat, drbored.
From what I've seen of that 3d printed community, AT peeps use it to swap out armor panels and create base decorations. Whereas with Epic, 3d printing literally undermines the entire product line.
How? How many lucius warlord or warhound sales did gw lose out on? It's no one's fault but gw that 3rd party's are eating their lunch seeing as they leave about 90% on the table.
drbored wrote: The Epic crowd, meanwhile, just wants to 3d print a bunch of leman russes and baneblades and play a game using GW rules and GW support but without paying GW a dime for the models they'd make.
(Yes I know this is hyperbolic, but from the few epic players I've met, this was really their entire desire).
...from what I keep seeing in this thread, there's a chunk of the AT "community" in that same (3D-printed) boat, drbored.
From what I've seen of that 3d printed community, AT peeps use it to swap out armor panels and create base decorations. Whereas with Epic, 3d printing literally undermines the entire product line.
You might have a point if GWhad a product line. Or a game.
It has neither, and most Epic players don't give a rat's ass if GW makes a new game called Epic or not. Because yes, they are already being catered to. Just not by GW.
100%
Even if GW got back in, they'd probably buy the models and leave the books on the store shelves to collect dust. The existence of so-so 3d models for a thunderhawk is still out done by an excellent thunderhawk model from gw. Make cool stuff, people will buy it.
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Overread wrote: Considering how many in the 3D print market chase copy-cat designs of GW stuff - I'd wager if GW released official new Epic models there'd be a healthy market
The whole idea of 3D printing replacing GW is - false to my mind. The only way they replace right now for the majority is the same way that 3rd parties have always replaced GW - by providing a secondary shop experience that sells models.
3D printing at home is a small thing right now. Growing yes, by all means its growing fast, but its still niche. The process isn't clean, super safe, simple nor is it suited to young teenagers.
Heck even many people who are interested are sometimes locked out because they don't have a shed/room/place to put the printer to work safely.
Heck with the wait to print and the clean up its sometimes nice to just get some good old plastic models to clean up and play with.
In the end 3D printing presents options and choices but GW would still dominate the market if they released a model line for Epic. Which is honestly what we should hope is the case for ANY model manufacturer coming to the market. The last thing we should want is a structure that destroys the chances for companies to make viable model lines and games
I agree most people just want a store front with affordable 3d printed models/bits/accessories. I have a friend with some printers, but I've seen the work that goes into it and it's to your point pretty involved, it's not quite there yet as a "consumer product", there's a lot to learn and a lot of funny smells and ancillary gear to help with curing/wash ect. But I think we all see the potential. And this I hope is something that may put pressure on GW to drop some of their more unlikeable sales tactics. Right off the bat, when someone can just make almost an entire epic army on a plate or two, if they take the time it can be the exact composition of a list they came up with, with no extra models or waste. This kind of print on demand stuff, I would hope would keep gw "honest" if they decide to dip their toes back into epic. But I also think, the kind of support it would need just on the imperial side of things, I don't think they'd commit enough to it. The aeronautica models are great, but it's not like there's hundreds of them.
Path of least resistance, but 3d printing at the scale of epic really is something that can keep gw's ambitions and costs in check. Stuff like only including 1 of x weapon in order to make you buy more boxes of a unit, they can't keep doing that while bitching about 3d printers eating their lunch. The FW stuff is a good example, having to get 9 armigers (3 sets) just to field a legal unit with the weapons you actually want. Even the plastic knight kit, comes with a whopping 1 of every gun, again forcing players to buy like 3 boxes, more than they'll ever run, just to be able to run a unit with the same weapon.
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SamusDrake wrote: Apparently there is something called "honour banners" in next month's White Dwarf. The suspense is already killing me...
...oh wait, its literally how to make banners for titans. Nothing to do with Knight banners at all.
I kinda wish it was an actual set of banners. I've seen some titans with banners and they look great. It's kinda nuts that we've never seen a sprue or kit dedicated to just adding little details to titans.
There’s no reason for GW to relaunch Epic as a game. Instead, they can just continue designing Epic-compatible models for other games on their own terms. No need to worry about having complete lines and huge numbers of SKUs, X number of factions, designing for both new and existing players, doing rules support going forward etc.
I think we’ll see other factions for AT before GW gets back into the business of making little tiny guardsmen and Russes and Chimeras and Hydras and Basilisks and Manticores etc. Their business is about making larger plastic kits where their capabilities can really shine.
drbored wrote: tbh the reason you don't hear much about AT from AT fans is because they're too busy building, painting, and playing AT.
It's a really good game with really good models, there's no impetus for them to come onto the forums and complain about a game that's genuinely really good. There was also a much more trusted rumormonger that suggested AT was one of the best-selling specialist games that GW has, and I wouldn't be surprised if that's the case.
Unlike other specialist games that need a small number of models like Blood Bowl and Necromunda, AT is a bit unique in that to get a proper sizeable force, you really do have to spend a pretty penny, but those pennies are going to gorgeous models that make fantastic maniples with balanced powers, flavorful legios, and fun stratagems that reward skillful play. There are a few issues keeping the game from perfect balance, but many AT players aren't the grindy competitive type, so it's easy enough to say "Yeah, maybe that Legio + Stratagem is too OP, just don't use that next time".
The Epic crowd, meanwhile, just wants to 3d print a bunch of leman russes and baneblades and play a game using GW rules and GW support but without paying GW a dime for the models they'd make.
(Yes I know this is hyperbolic, but from the few epic players I've met, this was really their entire desire).
no true scotsman (at fan) basically. So glad a "real" AT managed to materialize from the aether with gifts of enlightenment. Question, if the game is a winner for GW, why are they putting fewer and fewer resources into it? Why can't I get cards? Why can't I buy a thick card warmaster terminal? Help me understand, oh wise one
As for the epic thing, how exactly is any of this costing gw a dime seeing as it's a market they've clearly moved out of some time ago, the last epic model was a long time ago. Won't both getting into an ip battle, but to me it's pretty simple, the only someone is stealing from gw is if they currently make and sell the model in question, otherwise it's patently absurd. I couldn't give gw money for epic models right now if I wanted to.
Show me an AT fan complaining about AT and I'll show you two having a fun game with beautifully built and painted models. That's my experience, anyway.
GW has issues printing cardboard? You don't say. Gosh, I wonder where I can get tactics cards for Necromunda, or terrain cards for Warcry, or any of the previous game boards that they've ever printed ever. That's just an issue with GW as a whole, not exclusively to Titanicus. Also, they ARE putting work into Titanicus. Did you miss the two gigantic Warmaster titans that came out not long ago? The tiny adorable Armigers? The Dire Wolf? The Traitor Legios book that just came out consolidating a ton of rules into one tome so you don't have to go back and dig through a half dozen other books to find your one legio, but that also includes MORE and new information so that you don't feel like you just bought the same thing twice?
And the idea is that the market for epic models is already saturated by other sorts of things, ala 3d printing. Why would GW make a game for something where players can already print what they want? Where's the money for GW to make? It's not the only reason they might not do Epic, but it's gotta be on their minds.
Have I cleared up a few things for you? I am pretty wise after all. In fact, they say my butt is the wisest part of me. They call me a wise-arse quite a bit after all.
drbored wrote: Show me an AT fan complaining about AT and I'll show you two having a fun game with beautifully built and painted models. That's my experience, anyway.
That's my experience with basically any game. Because usually when people is playing they don't complain about the game, they play the game. And the amount of people who go to the internet and talk about a game is stupidly low when compared with the amount of people who don't.
So you could say this about every single GW game (or non-GW to be frank) and it would amount to the same.
Crablezworth wrote: Question, if the game is a winner for GW, why are they putting fewer and fewer resources into it?
GW made the business decision, for AT as well as quite a few of their other "small print run games," that they didn't want to carry stock for anything but a few core items. Everything else they would print only enough to meet initial demand.
This prevents them from having to stock too many SKUs and deal with excess inventory, which can be a real problem with smaller game lines. This is a common practice in other industries as well.
It was bad enough that they started to gain a reputation for not even fulfilling pre-orders, and thus their recent promises on some game lines to ensure that all initial orders will be filled.
Togusa wrote: All of the FW terrain has gone sold out over the weekend. Getting access to official terrain is becoming more and more difficult and that scares me.
Damn it this is a damn good game.
Same on the UK. Looks like they're discontinuing the resin terrain.
SamusDrake wrote: Apparently there is something called "honour banners" in next month's White Dwarf. The suspense is already killing me...
...oh wait, its literally how to make banners for titans. Nothing to do with Knight banners at all.
Wait, so a tutorial for how fans can create their own banners? Not directly trying to sell a banner? I am actually mindblown here!
It's probably just rules for banners with a handful of photos that probably aren't current, maybe it will be interesting, maybe it will be rules clutter. I hope I'm wrong and it's a brand new plastic banner kit, but I'm no true at fan, alas.
drbored wrote: Show me an AT fan complaining about AT and I'll show you two having a fun game with beautifully built and painted models. That's my experience, anyway.
That's my experience with basically any game. Because usually when people is playing they don't complain about the game, they play the game. And the amount of people who go to the internet and talk about a game is stupidly low when compared with the amount of people who don't.
So you could say this about every single GW game (or non-GW to be frank) and it would amount to the same.
And if this site was solely dedicated to photos of two men across a table from one another enjoying themselves and not also discussion I'd say that was a useful contribution. I would simply profer one can enjoy something intensely and passionately while also being critical of it. Tired of the no true at fan, if it's so great why does the fair maiden of at require one to defend it's honour, should one not be off somewhere in total bliss rolling dice and enjoying it in it's immaculate perfection?
Crablezworth wrote: Question, if the game is a winner for GW, why are they putting fewer and fewer resources into it?
GW made the business decision, for AT as well as quite a few of their other "small print run games," that they didn't want to carry stock for anything but a few core items. Everything else they would print only enough to meet initial demand.
This prevents them from having to stock too many SKUs and deal with excess inventory, which can be a real problem with smaller game lines. This is a common practice in other industries as well.
It was bad enough that they started to gain a reputation for not even fulfilling pre-orders, and thus their recent promises on some game lines to ensure that all initial orders will be filled.
And is that still the right approach with 3d printing where its at? IP is a less and less useful thing if you don't actually make stuff with it, someone else will. And they'll call it laser chicken and get away with it.
Togusa wrote: All of the FW terrain has gone sold out over the weekend. Getting access to official terrain is becoming more and more difficult and that scares me.
Togusa wrote: All of the FW terrain has gone sold out over the weekend. Getting access to official terrain is becoming more and more difficult and that scares me.
Damn it this is a damn good game.
Same on the UK. Looks like they're discontinuing the resin terrain.
Well it's a shame, there's always taiwan west I guess.
The Epic crowd, meanwhile, just wants to 3d print a bunch of leman russes and baneblades and play a game using GW rules and GW support but without paying GW a dime for the models they'd make.
(Yes I know this is hyperbolic, but from the few epic players I've met, this was really their entire desire).
Please tell me where it is possible to get new Games Workshop miniatures and give them money. I gave hundreds of £ back in the 90s for 2nd edition Space Marine if that counts?
These days I support companies that are keeping the game going with proxy miniatures (Vanguard and Onslaught miniatures etc.)
Although I do actually buy AT titans for Epic, as I know a lot of Epic players do, so we are not all bottom-feeding parasites stealing from the blessed teat of mother GW
It's probably just rules for banners with a handful of photos that probably aren't current, maybe it will be interesting, maybe it will be rules clutter. I hope I'm wrong and it's a brand new plastic banner kit, but I'm no true at fan, alas.
Nope, its going to be a Blue Peter job from what they said. Better start stocking up on your empty loo rolls, Crablezworth!
Here here! Blood Bowl, Necromunda, Epic survived many years without any official support. Blood Bowl was having tournaments with hundreds of players in Europe more than a decade after official support for it had stopped. Thanks to the internet communities a lot of them have never been stronger, and they will survive for many years long since the last new release from GW has passed.
Exactly! BFG is experiencing a kinda new golden age, fully carried on by the indie scene and fans!
Yeah, at this point I think theres more people playing BFG now than there were when the game was alive. I assume because the BFG computer games were popular and reached new audiences who may not have been familiar with it previously or didn't realize how cool spaceship battles could be, but also because the community editions of the game that are gaining in popularity patch and fix many of the failings of the original game.
Everyone forgets to that GW needed to be basically shamed into selling the warlord weapon arms sprues.
They promised us that they would sell the weapons separately before they ever even released product for the game, so I'm not sure this is accurate. The "shaming" you are describing is because when they did release the second warlord titan with the variant weapons, they didn't immediately also make the stand-alone weapons sprue available and the community reacted badly to that, but that doesn't mean that GW wasn't already planning on releasing it (again, we knew that they would, they told us as much from the beginning), just that they didn't do so immediately. That was a big part of the outrage, actually -- "YOU PROMISED US YOU WOULD RELEASE THE WEAPONS SEPARATELY! WHERE ARE THEY? YOU BETTER NOT BE RENEGING ON THE DEAL, GIVE THEM TO US NOW!" moreso than "WHAT, YOU MEAN I HAVE TO BUY A WHOLE NEW TITAN TO GET THOSE PLASMA CANNONS?"
The Epic crowd, meanwhile, just wants to 3d print a bunch of leman russes and baneblades and play a game using GW rules and GW support but without paying GW a dime for the models they'd make.
(Yes I know this is hyperbolic, but from the few epic players I've met, this was really their entire desire).
*Insert "why would you say something so controversial yet so brave" gif here*
drbored wrote: The Epic crowd, meanwhile, just wants to 3d print a bunch of leman russes and baneblades and play a game using GW rules and GW support but without paying GW a dime for the models they'd make.
(Yes I know this is hyperbolic, but from the few epic players I've met, this was really their entire desire).
...from what I keep seeing in this thread, there's a chunk of the AT "community" in that same (3D-printed) boat, drbored.
From what I've seen of that 3d printed community, AT peeps use it to swap out armor panels and create base decorations. Whereas with Epic, 3d printing literally undermines the entire product line.
You might have a point if GWhad a product line. Or a game.
It has neither, and most Epic players don't give a rat's ass if GW makes a new game called Epic or not. Because yes, they are already being catered to. Just not by GW.
In which case theres no reason for GW to step into that market, and the Epic crowd should stop calling on them to do so.
chaos0xomega wrote: In which case theres no reason for GW to step into that market, and the Epic crowd should stop calling on them to do so.
I'm Ok with that.
And still... when GW has released titans and planes at that scale, suddenly a lot of Epic players are buying them and fielding them. So maybe, just maybe, if they released actual product it would sell.
The Epic crowd, meanwhile, just wants to 3d print a bunch of leman russes and baneblades and play a game using GW rules and GW support but without paying GW a dime for the models they'd make.
(Yes I know this is hyperbolic, but from the few epic players I've met, this was really their entire desire).
Please tell me where it is possible to get new Games Workshop miniatures and give them money. I gave hundreds of £ back in the 90s for 2nd edition Space Marine if that counts?
These days I support companies that are keeping the game going with proxy miniatures (Vanguard and Onslaught miniatures etc.)
Although I do actually buy AT titans for Epic, as I know a lot of Epic players do, so we are not all bottom-feeding parasites stealing from the blessed teat of mother GW
Like I said, I suspect that GW is happy to produce (and sell you, LOL) Epic-compatible miniatures without the hassle of creating and fully supporting a new Epic game.
The Epic crowd, meanwhile, just wants to 3d print a bunch of leman russes and baneblades and play a game using GW rules and GW support but without paying GW a dime for the models they'd make.
(Yes I know this is hyperbolic, but from the few epic players I've met, this was really their entire desire).
Please tell me where it is possible to get new Games Workshop miniatures and give them money. I gave hundreds of £ back in the 90s for 2nd edition Space Marine if that counts?
These days I support companies that are keeping the game going with proxy miniatures (Vanguard and Onslaught miniatures etc.)
Although I do actually buy AT titans for Epic, as I know a lot of Epic players do, so we are not all bottom-feeding parasites stealing from the blessed teat of mother GW
Like I said, I suspect that GW is happy to produce (and sell you, LOL) Epic-compatible miniatures without the hassle of creating and fully supporting a new Epic game.
I would definitely be happy with that!
Think anything that got more people playing what is IMO one of the greatest games GW has ever made, in God's own scale, can only be a good thing!
Togusa wrote: All of the FW terrain has gone sold out over the weekend. Getting access to official terrain is becoming more and more difficult and that scares me.
Damn it this is a damn good game.
Same on the UK. Looks like they're discontinuing the resin terrain.
Well, you can blame me, since I never bought any of it. Always seemed pricey for terrain that looked to be 1" high and more table decoration than game-influencing.
Togusa wrote: All of the FW terrain has gone sold out over the weekend. Getting access to official terrain is becoming more and more difficult and that scares me.
Damn it this is a damn good game.
Same on the UK. Looks like they're discontinuing the resin terrain.
Well, you can blame me, since I never bought any of it. Always seemed pricey for terrain that looked to be 1" high and more table decoration than game-influencing.
It was modular so you needed to buy multiple kits to build stuff up and out. I am not sure it's gone forever. The basic terrain is a full plastic kit, there is no way they'd retire that mold after just 4 years. The resin stuff I understand, and may be gone for good but I am wondering if we're about to see an announcement of a second edition of the game, reboxings and the inevitable Imperator Titan kit launch? It's been about four years since the game launched now, almost. So it follows the normal GW edition change time.
Last I heard the game does quite well, it's no power house like 40K or AoS, but if AI is still going, no way AT won't be still good.
From what I can tell, the AT community seems to be leaning towards reboxing or new edition.
Togusa wrote: All of the FW terrain has gone sold out over the weekend. Getting access to official terrain is becoming more and more difficult and that scares me.
Damn it this is a damn good game.
Same on the UK. Looks like they're discontinuing the resin terrain.
Well, you can blame me, since I never bought any of it. Always seemed pricey for terrain that looked to be 1" high and more table decoration than game-influencing.
It was modular so you needed to buy multiple kits to build stuff up and out. I am not sure it's gone forever. The basic terrain is a full plastic kit, there is no way they'd retire that mold after just 4 years. The resin stuff I understand, and may be gone for good but I am wondering if we're about to see an announcement of a second edition of the game, reboxings and the inevitable Imperator Titan kit launch? It's been about four years since the game launched now, almost. So it follows the normal GW edition change time.
Last I heard the game does quite well, it's no power house like 40K or AoS, but if AI is still going, no way AT won't be still good.
From what I can tell, the AT community seems to be leaning towards reboxing or new edition.
In the GW US webstore, only one of the three kits are currently in stock, with the Civitas Imperialis, arguably the base set, is listed as no longer available online. But these terrain kits being withdrawn don't concern me to much as there are plenty of 3rd party options for AT scale terrain.
Regardless, I feel there is more evidence that AT and AI are not likely to see any new product support after GW's current fiscal year ends and may possibly be dropped before GW's 2023 fiscal year ends.
Anyway, terrain for Titanicus has been intermittently available, and my local GW manager suggested it might just be reboxing or preparing for a new edition.
All things considered, AT has been out for long enough that they might try to put out a new box set (ala necromunda where they refresh the core book) or a new edition, and they may be repacking a lot of the terrain to prepare for that.
drbored wrote: Anyway, terrain for Titanicus has been intermittently available, and my local GW manager suggested it might just be reboxing or preparing for a new edition.
All things considered, AT has been out for long enough that they might try to put out a new box set (ala necromunda where they refresh the core book) or a new edition, and they may be repacking a lot of the terrain to prepare for that.
drbored wrote: Anyway, terrain for Titanicus has been intermittently available, and my local GW manager suggested it might just be reboxing or preparing for a new edition.
All things considered, AT has been out for long enough that they might try to put out a new box set (ala necromunda where they refresh the core book) or a new edition, and they may be repacking a lot of the terrain to prepare for that.
I hope that's true. I really do.
Or hey, could be rebranding it all to Epic terrain! Who knows?
Like cardboard, GW has an issue with consistency with terrain. So much simply goes the way of the dodo with no warning or pattern.
Togusa wrote: All of the FW terrain has gone sold out over the weekend. Getting access to official terrain is becoming more and more difficult and that scares me.
Damn it this is a damn good game.
Same on the UK. Looks like they're discontinuing the resin terrain.
Well, you can blame me, since I never bought any of it. Always seemed pricey for terrain that looked to be 1" high and more table decoration than game-influencing.
It was modular so you needed to buy multiple kits to build stuff up and out. I am not sure it's gone forever. The basic terrain is a full plastic kit, there is no way they'd retire that mold after just 4 years. The resin stuff I understand, and may be gone for good but I am wondering if we're about to see an announcement of a second edition of the game, reboxings and the inevitable Imperator Titan kit launch? It's been about four years since the game launched now, almost. So it follows the normal GW edition change time.
Last I heard the game does quite well, it's no power house like 40K or AoS, but if AI is still going, no way AT won't be still good.
From what I can tell, the AT community seems to be leaning towards reboxing or new edition.
In the GW US webstore, only one of the three kits are currently in stock, with the Civitas Imperialis, arguably the base set, is listed as no longer available online. But these terrain kits being withdrawn don't concern me to much as there are plenty of 3rd party options for AT scale terrain.
Regardless, I feel there is more evidence that AT and AI are not likely to see any new product support after GW's current fiscal year ends and may possibly be dropped before GW's 2023 fiscal year ends.
Feels that way sadly. The dire wolf release does not give hope, it makes rumours of it running out of steam seem true and things like exciting plastic future releases seem a bit "dire" . (stolen joke )
Lord of Deeds wrote: In the GW US webstore, only one of the three kits are currently in stock, with the Civitas Imperialis, arguably the base set, is listed as no longer available online. But these terrain kits being withdrawn don't concern me to much as there are plenty of 3rd party options for AT scale terrain.
Regardless, I feel there is more evidence that AT and AI are not likely to see any new product support after GW's current fiscal year ends and may possibly be dropped before GW's 2023 fiscal year ends.
I wouldn't put too much stock in (pun intended) the "no longer available" message. That's just GW's gakky system. Lots of things have been listed as such and then been reboxed and restocked. I don't know why they don't change the wording on those to something less prone to cause panic. Although I think players are much too nervous about the future of a game that's sold very well.
gorgon wrote: I don't know why they don't change the wording on those to something less prone to cause panic.
Their entire business model/practice is built of fomo and fake scarcity, this is the inherent problem GW faces going into a future of 3d printing and scarcity only in the sense of running out of resin.
It's not really that defensible outside of limited edition codex's or whatever either, it only fuels price gouging on ebay for at times things some deem essential to enjoyment, like open engine war cards.
I'd love to think their communication will get better when reboxing or temporary supply chain issues disrupt what's available on their site, but, I'm not hopeful.
Crablezworth wrote: Question, if the game is a winner for GW, why are they putting fewer and fewer resources into it?
GW made the business decision, for AT as well as quite a few of their other "small print run games," that they didn't want to carry stock for anything but a few core items. Everything else they would print only enough to meet initial demand.
This prevents them from having to stock too many SKUs and deal with excess inventory, which can be a real problem with smaller game lines. This is a common practice in other industries as well.
It was bad enough that they started to gain a reputation for not even fulfilling pre-orders, and thus their recent promises on some game lines to ensure that all initial orders will be filled.
And is that still the right approach with 3d printing where its at? IP is a less and less useful thing if you don't actually make stuff with it, someone else will. And they'll call it laser chicken and get away with it.
As odd as it may sound, yes.
By not overproducing and keeping inventory low, they avoid the costly cash flow mistakes that sink many hobby producers. It allows them to continue investing in new content as opposed to getting rid of stale inventory.
Is it also annoying to experience as a customer when so much of the line is out of stock - oh yeah, very.
But it ought to put them on good footing to keep producing new stuff, so long as they keep selling out of the releases they don't want to stock.
Togusa wrote: All of the FW terrain has gone sold out over the weekend. Getting access to official terrain is becoming more and more difficult and that scares me.
Damn it this is a damn good game.
Same on the UK. Looks like they're discontinuing the resin terrain.
Well, you can blame me, since I never bought any of it. Always seemed pricey for terrain that looked to be 1" high and more table decoration than game-influencing.
It was modular so you needed to buy multiple kits to build stuff up and out. I am not sure it's gone forever. The basic terrain is a full plastic kit, there is no way they'd retire that mold after just 4 years. The resin stuff I understand, and may be gone for good but I am wondering if we're about to see an announcement of a second edition of the game, reboxings and the inevitable Imperator Titan kit launch? It's been about four years since the game launched now, almost. So it follows the normal GW edition change time.
Last I heard the game does quite well, it's no power house like 40K or AoS, but if AI is still going, no way AT won't be still good.
From what I can tell, the AT community seems to be leaning towards reboxing or new edition.
In the GW US webstore, only one of the three kits are currently in stock, with the Civitas Imperialis, arguably the base set, is listed as no longer available online. But these terrain kits being withdrawn don't concern me to much as there are plenty of 3rd party options for AT scale terrain.
Regardless, I feel there is more evidence that AT and AI are not likely to see any new product support after GW's current fiscal year ends and may possibly be dropped before GW's 2023 fiscal year ends.
Feels that way sadly. The dire wolf release does not give hope, it makes rumours of it running out of steam seem true and things like exciting plastic future releases seem a bit "dire" . (stolen joke )
I don't understand this sentiment. Titanicus is a specialist game, and like many specialist games a lot of times they have stretches of not a lot going on between big hype releases. Look at Underworlds right now. New edition, yet it's been a seriously slow-burner. The new 'rivals' format (which, how they explain it, makes not a lick of sense) is DOA.
Necromunda goes long stretches with not a lot. Blood Bowl goes even longer stretches with a whole lotta nothing. Warcry is getting a book and a reboxing of a bunch of kits that already exist.
Heck, GW is even struggling to release AoS and 40k stuff in due time. I really don't see a difference with Titanicus' releases: they try to put out things when they can, all of the pandemic stuff and supply issues considered.
This whole 'sky is falling and [enter specialist game here] is dying!' mentality is nonsensical.
I agree. The laments (both the "AT is dying " and the "NEED MORE STUFF NOW!!!") are both, at a minimum, quite foolish if not just straight up hysterical.
The part that doesn't feel sustainable, honestly, is FW.
Their "boutique" resin minis are... crap quality, most of the time, crappier both the smaller AND the bigger you go. If they swapped out completely to GW-owned local(ish) printing hubs for all their FW catalogue, they would probably be much better off, and they'd avoid most of their current quality problems. Plus, they wouldn't need to worry anymore about stock, as it would be a PoD operation. And of course, shipping costs should be much smaller too.
JWBS wrote: I agree. The laments (both the "AT is dying " and the "NEED MORE STUFF NOW!!!") are both, at a minimum, quite foolish if not just straight up hysterical.
You know, hysteria is a great way of descricibing the emotional overreaction "real" at fans seem to feel if anything but praise is levied towards the game or its maker.
"hys·te·ri·a
/həˈstirēə,həˈsterēə/
PSYCHIATRY
a psychological disorder (not now regarded as a single definite condition) whose symptoms include conversion of psychological stress into physical symptoms (somatization), selective amnesia, shallow volatile emotions, and overdramatic or attention-seeking behavior. The term has a controversial history as it was formerly regarded as a disease specific to women."
I don't think one or two people on dakka saying they believe a the rumour to be true to be some sort of mark of disrespect. It's just an opinion. One supported with examples and evidence, nothing to get bent out of shape over. I'm sure the dire wolf cast photos will give us all sorts of things to argue over soon enough.
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Albertorius wrote: The part that doesn't feel sustainable, honestly, is FW.
Their "boutique" resin minis are... crap quality, most of the time, crappier both the smaller AND the bigger you go. If they swapped out completely to GW-owned local(ish) printing hubs for all their FW catalogue, they would probably be much better off, and they'd avoid most of their current quality problems. Plus, they wouldn't need to worry anymore about stock, as it would be a PoD operation. And of course, shipping costs should be much smaller too.
That's sorta my issue, there seems to be a rather large amount of AT stuff relegated to resin and as stated the QA on the models is all over the place. That doesn't bode well for future resin released, I as someone who until a few pages ago considered myself an at fan, I now realize im simply an imposter it would seem, all the same I'd prefer everything in plastic, I'd like to think I'm not alone in that sentiment, but what do I know
This whole 'sky is falling and [enter specialist game here] is dying!' mentality is nonsensical.
Probably best to keep engaging with it then, I guess.
Has anyone heard anything yet about the banners in the next white dwarf? Dare we get our collective hopes up for physical component or will it be just rules? Anyone care to speculate?
JWBS wrote: I agree. The laments (both the "AT is dying " and the "NEED MORE STUFF NOW!!!") are both, at a minimum, quite foolish if not just straight up hysterical.
You know, hysteria is a great way of descricibing the emotional overreaction "real" at fans seem to feel if anything but praise is levied towards the game or its maker.
That's just an obvious strawman though, isn't it? Like, as if me saying "I think these concerns are highly overblown" is remotely the same as me saying "Man I'm so angry that people are criticising our beloved corporation and any / all actions undertaken by beloved corporation". You ofc are free to label anyone that disagrees with your takes as an apologist or whatever else you want, but that's not legitimate and likely won't convince many.
Albertorius wrote: The part that doesn't feel sustainable, honestly, is FW.
Their "boutique" resin minis are... crap quality, most of the time, crappier both the smaller AND the bigger you go. If they swapped out completely to GW-owned local(ish) printing hubs for all their FW catalogue, they would probably be much better off, and they'd avoid most of their current quality problems. Plus, they wouldn't need to worry anymore about stock, as it would be a PoD operation. And of course, shipping costs should be much smaller too.
This is true. Some of the smaller models are fine, but even then the quality control is really swingy. A friend and I got the same warlord weapon. His had a massive mold slip, mine was a bit warped but otherwise fine. His should have been rejected and recast at the very least, but they decided it was good enough to ship, and so he had to spend an extra two hours shaving things down and gap filling. That's not good, fun hobby.
Crablezworth wrote: Has anyone heard anything yet about the banners in the next white dwarf? Dare we get our collective hopes up for physical component or will it be just rules? Anyone care to speculate?
I dont expect anything more than a guide to various titanic heraldry, what various symbols and kill markers mean and a guide to making your own with existing decal sheets. There is not going to be a plastic banner sprue, and likely not resin either. At most, a decal/ punch out card sheet. Its just going to be a fluff/conversion article.
Dire wolf in resin I am fine with as far as the future of AT goes. It's meant to be a non-standard model which is what the resin is for. The psy-titan is in resin as well and people dont seem to have an issue with that one.
Warmaster weapons swap is kinda stupid, but also probably the easiest way to deal with the balance issue of a carapace gatling combining with the plasma arms which would allow the warmaster to fairly reliably shield strip and destroy any titan it felt like within 30" on its own.
I'm still expecting the next plastic kit to be a two pack of rapier light scouts.
Man the problem with resin is that it takes the beauty of Titanicus and sticks it into an ugly, unpleasant medium. It's a crap shoot - expensive, poorly QA'd death sentence for the game. The more they shift to FW resin, the closer this game and any other is to death. At least, for 90% of the customers in this market.
axotl wrote: Man the problem with resin is that it takes the beauty of Titanicus and sticks it into an ugly, unpleasant medium. It's a crap shoot - expensive, poorly QA'd death sentence for the game. The more they shift to FW resin, the closer this game and any other is to death. At least, for 90% of the customers in this market.
Agreed and people saying recognizing that trajectory is being negative or "hysterical" for not thinking it's a positive development. Shoot the messenger basically.
Crablezworth wrote: Has anyone heard anything yet about the banners in the next white dwarf? Dare we get our collective hopes up for physical component or will it be just rules? Anyone care to speculate?
I dont expect anything more than a guide to various titanic heraldry, what various symbols and kill markers mean and a guide to making your own with existing decal sheets. There is not going to be a plastic banner sprue, and likely not resin either. At most, a decal/ punch out card sheet. Its just going to be a fluff/conversion article.
Dire wolf in resin I am fine with as far as the future of AT goes. It's meant to be a non-standard model which is what the resin is for. The psy-titan is in resin as well and people dont seem to have an issue with that one.
Warmaster weapons swap is kinda stupid, but also probably the easiest way to deal with the balance issue of a carapace gatling combining with the plasma arms which would allow the warmaster to fairly reliably shield strip and destroy any titan it felt like within 30" on its own.
I'm still expecting the next plastic kit to be a two pack of rapier light scouts.
Ya I didn't want to get my hopes up for much in terms of the banners.
The dire wolf being in resin means it likely has no customization for loyalist or traitor, I'm hoping I'm wrong on that, but seeing as they've announced selling it in 2 kits based on carapace weapon, if it is indeed the case that there are no options and not even a second un-revealed torso/arm weapon, I don't see how monobuild titans with like 1 option is a step forward from what we've become accustomed to. modularity. As for the psi titan, people had issue with it being out of stock often for long periods of time. Another problem with FW.
I agree the balance isn't great on on carapace gattling and dual plasma, but they could have honestly just limited that without having us pretend they're two entirely different units with no cross pollination. Could have just said you needed at least 1 cc arm to take the top gun or something to that effect. Still, the way they handled it's release was arrogant in the extreme in my opinion. I just don't like the idea of going from weapons systems and platforms, which is what battle titans and scout titans are, to incredibly fixed or artificially limited loadouts what the intent is clearly more commercial than balance oriented.
I hope you're right and we get another plastic kit and it is a dual rapier kits similar to the warhound box but scale 5. I want that to be true, I'm just no holding my breath. And the fear is even if we get plastic, it will be mono build or require a silly amount of box purchases just to get the ability to kit it out the way I'd like.
Albertorius wrote: The part that doesn't feel sustainable, honestly, is FW.
Their "boutique" resin minis are... crap quality, most of the time, crappier both the smaller AND the bigger you go. If they swapped out completely to GW-owned local(ish) printing hubs for all their FW catalogue, they would probably be much better off, and they'd avoid most of their current quality problems. Plus, they wouldn't need to worry anymore about stock, as it would be a PoD operation. And of course, shipping costs should be much smaller too.
This is true. Some of the smaller models are fine, but even then the quality control is really swingy. A friend and I got the same warlord weapon. His had a massive mold slip, mine was a bit warped but otherwise fine. His should have been rejected and recast at the very least, but they decided it was good enough to ship, and so he had to spend an extra two hours shaving things down and gap filling. That's not good, fun hobby.
Mould slips are grounds for refund or replacement IMO. Warping is pretty easy to fix, air bubbles don't take long to fix with a bit of green stuff, but mould slips are too far.
Personally, I wouldn't want FW to go print-on-demand unless they made the products a hell of a lot cheaper or could achieve no printing lines. I'm already unhappy that my Arvus Lighters have printing lines on them. 3D prints need post work before becoming masters, and in this case it doesn't look like they've put in the effort.
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axotl wrote: Man the problem with resin is that it takes the beauty of Titanicus and sticks it into an ugly, unpleasant medium. It's a crap shoot - expensive, poorly QA'd death sentence for the game. The more they shift to FW resin, the closer this game and any other is to death. At least, for 90% of the customers in this market.
I'm still pro-resin for making sharper details than plastic can achieve, which is nice at this small scale, but obviously if FW aren't putting in the effort to make that detail or have good enough QA then that's not great. And resin still allows for a broader product range, if GW release 10 products in a year of which 9 are resin and 1 of which is plastic, swapping to only plastic doesn't mean you get 10 plastic products a year, it means you probably get 2.
The biggest problem with FW for AT and AI, IMO, is beyond the QA issues many people just aren't willing to order specifically from FW and wait for postage. A lot of people just buy from their local store, or online from discounters, and the idea of buying direct from FW at their insane prices and still having to wait for shipping is off-putting for many.
And that's a problem when a decent portion of the range is FW, many people will just see that and be put off from ever starting the game.
Want to start AI and like Necrons but don't like FW? Too bad, either deal with FW or don't play... and many people will choose to not play.
axotl wrote: Man the problem with resin is that it takes the beauty of Titanicus and sticks it into an ugly, unpleasant medium. It's a crap shoot - expensive, poorly QA'd death sentence for the game. The more they shift to FW resin, the closer this game and any other is to death. At least, for 90% of the customers in this market.
Let's remember that most of Titanicus' range (all of the major titans) are still in plastic, including many of their weapons. Same with many of the Knights.
So far, a lot of the stuff that's resin has been more esoteric options (mechanicum knights and the psi titan) and a handful of weapon upgrades, and the Dire Wolf, which they probably put resin because they just don't see it as a hot seller.
I'll be getting a few because Legio Defensor and the Dire Wolf go together like peanut butter and jam.
I remember the Psi titan being out of stock for a long time at the same time GW was out of stock of the plasma warlord, which the psy titan parts are bundled with
AllSeeingSkink wrote: Personally, I wouldn't want FW to go print-on-demand unless they made the products a hell of a lot cheaper or could achieve no printing lines. I'm already unhappy that my Arvus Lighters have printing lines on them. 3D prints need post work before becoming masters, and in this case it doesn't look like they've put in the effort.
Well, that or better configured settings, better resin and smaller layers. That will also help a lot. Even with a regular ass 2k, $200 desktop printer you can achieve some incredible detail with basically no layer lines, if you are willing to make the effort.
AllSeeingSkink wrote: Personally, I wouldn't want FW to go print-on-demand unless they made the products a hell of a lot cheaper or could achieve no printing lines. I'm already unhappy that my Arvus Lighters have printing lines on them. 3D prints need post work before becoming masters, and in this case it doesn't look like they've put in the effort.
Well, that or better configured settings, better resin and smaller layers. That will also help a lot. Even with a regular ass 2k, $200 desktop printer you can achieve some incredible detail with basically no layer lines, if you are willing to make the effort.
I'd be curious to see what's possible, but from what I've seen even 8k printers and DLP printers have some level of printing striations and should probably be post worked before being turned into masters.
The model I got from FW where the lines are noticeable, I'd be happy if a model of that quality came out of my own printer, or if I purchased it for a few bucks from a small time creator, but for the money FW charge for models I expect something better than that.
Yeah you're not getting any sort of print thats free of visible layer striations for less than ~$5-10k minimum. You need roughly sub-25μm layer height resolution in order to go beyond visual layer lines, and theres only one printer that I know of in the sub-$2000 hobby printer range that can actually do that (Phrozen Sonic Mini 8K) without any sort of gimmick or strings attached (a few advertise similar capabilities, but only if you're printing at a small fraction of the actual print volume to do something small like a ring or whatever.
Really not getting what all the fuss is about, resin is a great medium and theres plenty of people happy to work with it. Frankly, outside of dakka I have yet to ever encounter someone who says "I won't buy this product because its in resin". As it stands, this is one of a handful of non-primary products that are being tooled for resin instead of plastic, I'm really not concerned for the future of this game. Most of what you need and most of what players will actually field are in plastic and I expect that will continue inh the future as well. 40k as had a very large forgeworld catalog containing hundreds of items for years and somehow that never put it on the brink of death.
To be clear, I can confirm that FW is NOT cleaning their 3d prints pre-master molding. The armigers ALL have parts of the supports remaining and incorporated into the master mold. Divots from them, little stems, all of it. It's small and I think a lot of older moldeler's eyes are bad or something (or we'd hear about this more) but they're all there.
Yeah, I think we can interpret the Dire Wolf release as a sign of the game's health, actually. They're still interested in and seeing profit in selling us more AT stuff. That's good.
And while we can't know for sure, I think it's a pretty good bet this one's in resin because of limited plastic support (something all the SGs deal with if you pay strict attention) and because it's more of a niche Titan. It's mostly been mentioned in connection with Audax, and I think it'll end up mostly being used by people playing around with all-scout or scout-heavy forces.
The DW almost has to come in at 250+. And at that price point, I'd probably rather have a Reaver for around 300 that's tougher with more guns. I'll be getting at least one DW for my Audax, but I don't see why I'd get one for my Praesagius unless I was being a completist about it (and I'm not).
Saw a pretty sweet Direwolf mod on instagram today, though it's 28mm scale and iirc the guy just designs and prints stuff for personal use. Look twice as good as the official model though (it's just a carapace weapon and a pair of arm guns to attach to the standard warhound).
JWBS wrote: Saw a pretty sweet Direwolf mod on instagram today, though it's 28mm scale and iirc the guy just designs and prints stuff for personal use. Look twice as good as the official model though (it's just a carapace weapon and a pair of arm guns to attach to the standard warhound).
Yah I keep thinking the first person to come up with a dire wolf upgrade kit to the plastic warhound is going to make some people happy.
MajorWesJanson wrote: I remember the Psi titan being out of stock for a long time at the same time GW was out of stock of the plasma warlord, which the psy titan parts are bundled with
The Psy-Titan is still showing 'out of stock' in the USA for me, unfortunately.
MajorWesJanson wrote: I remember the Psi titan being out of stock for a long time at the same time GW was out of stock of the plasma warlord, which the psy titan parts are bundled with
The Psy-Titan is still showing 'out of stock' in the USA for me, unfortunately.
I've never seen it in stock, actually...
Shhhhh only good think, no bad think
Apparently the announced price increase will affect resin so the already not cheap dire wolf may be 5-10% more than expected/feared. I mean jolly good, hurray, nothing but positive vibes for gw and future realeas
Automatically Appended Next Post: Grimdark just released the first part of february's package. Really stoked on this one. The hermes are out now, the rest drops this weekend. There's a crashed version of the samson freighter.
This is just the lifter version, there's 2 more in the pack.
(this is a scale shot broncofish posted on facebook)
MajorWesJanson wrote: I remember the Psi titan being out of stock for a long time at the same time GW was out of stock of the plasma warlord, which the psy titan parts are bundled with
The Psy-Titan is still showing 'out of stock' in the USA for me, unfortunately.
I've never seen it in stock, actually...
It was in stock very recently and for more than a day or two, lol. I got one. And yes, the interesting part was that the check slip in the box of resin bits was dated more than six months earlier. It was the plastic Warlord kits that they were apparently waiting on.
Which returns us to the conversation around plastic manufacturing bottle necks…
That model that the author (from Instagram) is working on will be 28mm scale - he's also done an absolutely "Lance Hound" conversion in 28mm - a harpoon-armed Warhound.
Crablezworth wrote: Question, if the game is a winner for GW, why are they putting fewer and fewer resources into it?
GW made the business decision, for AT as well as quite a few of their other "small print run games," that they didn't want to carry stock for anything but a few core items. Everything else they would print only enough to meet initial demand.
This prevents them from having to stock too many SKUs and deal with excess inventory, which can be a real problem with smaller game lines. This is a common practice in other industries as well.
It was bad enough that they started to gain a reputation for not even fulfilling pre-orders, and thus their recent promises on some game lines to ensure that all initial orders will be filled.
And is that still the right approach with 3d printing where its at? IP is a less and less useful thing if you don't actually make stuff with it, someone else will. And they'll call it laser chicken and get away with it.
As odd as it may sound, yes.
By not overproducing and keeping inventory low, they avoid the costly cash flow mistakes that sink many hobby producers. It allows them to continue investing in new content as opposed to getting rid of stale inventory.
Is it also annoying to experience as a customer when so much of the line is out of stock - oh yeah, very.
But it ought to put them on good footing to keep producing new stuff, so long as they keep selling out of the releases they don't want to stock.
Having spent a lot of cash and time on Star Wars armada, you hit the nail right on the head. I'd say a lot fo the missing AT stuff will return in the near future.
Ya pretty ingenious design, had gw just gone that route and made it a resin conversion kit for hounds it would be bee a lot more palatable i piggy backing off the hound design.
Great that Grimdark are offering printing services (or a directory of them at least), actually makes them accessible to people that don't have a 3D printer.
Great that Grimdark are offering printing services (or a directory of them at least), actually makes them accessible to people that don't have a 3D printer.
Yah and there's not much lag time in terms of stl release and printers being able to it on demand in some cases.
Bits blitz design just previewed these on their fb page, work/salvage crew dudes. Excited to see those with the hermes.
Great that Grimdark are offering printing services (or a directory of them at least), actually makes them accessible to people that don't have a 3D printer.
Yah and there's not much lag time in terms of stl release and printers being able to it on demand in some cases.
Bits blitz design just previewed these on their fb page, work/salvage crew dudes. Excited to see those with the hermes.
MajorWesJanson wrote: I remember the Psi titan being out of stock for a long time at the same time GW was out of stock of the plasma warlord, which the psy titan parts are bundled with
The Psy-Titan is still showing 'out of stock' in the USA for me, unfortunately.
I've never seen it in stock, actually...
It was in stock very recently and for more than a day or two, lol. I got one. And yes, the interesting part was that the check slip in the box of resin bits was dated more than six months earlier. It was the plastic Warlord kits that they were apparently waiting on.
Which returns us to the conversation around plastic manufacturing bottle necks…
Lucky you!
If anyone notices it is back in stock in the USA someday, if they could shoot me a PM, I'd greatly appreciate it!
Thank you - I'll have to sign up for that group too!
For what it's worth, I've signed up via FW's "Alert Me When it is back in Stock" email thingie too - and I've never gotten an email that this item was ever back in stock.
Kind of fristrating, but low on the list of First World Problems, to be sure...
Really? I’ve had several.
Might want to be sure you’re signed in when you press the button.
Also the usual check your spam/junk filters etc and so forth.
Grimdark terrain is celebrating their first birthday by giving away a free terrain stl that's inspired by some old school terrain. Great for AT, might even look ok at 28mm.
Grimdark has put out conversion files for plastic warhounds, they're available from their commercial printers or you can get the file directly from them.
Unfortunate that this isn't part of the monthly package. I skipped this month as it was just the cargo mover, and this Direwolf alternate seems a little pricey tbh (though I suppose most buyers will print 2+ of them which makes it better value, I suppose I'll probably buy it at some point). How much was your cults version?
JWBS wrote: Unfortunate that this isn't part of the monthly package. I skipped this month as it was just the cargo mover, and this Direwolf alternate seems a little pricey tbh (though I suppose most buyers will print 2+ of them which makes it better value, I suppose I'll probably buy it at some point). How much was your cults version?
Monthly peeps save 35% I think. The cults one was on sale when I got it so it was 12.50 (50% off). I think even with buying a box of hounds you'll probably get 2 to 1 to the cost of the forge world one.
We're in interesting times, GW/Forge World previews a model with, let's say a mixed response to be fair and the community responds by making improved designs. For starters, it's not even like this isn't a brilliant idea, had forge world made a conversion kit for plastic warhounds instead of "that thing" we may be in a different place in terms of how people or "the community" reacted. Also the fanboy element can't exactly cry bloody murder because it's not taking sales away from GW, in fact, it down right requires GW get a sale in the form of a box of warhounds in order to even complete. So like with battle bling, it's hard to argue the usual ip stuff, GW is just letting people eat their lunch, and they used to at least have iconic designs that were the envy of everyone, that's no longer the case with the dire wolf heavy scout titan, the community saw a less than inspired design and took to the task of making something better AND more common sense in that it's a conversion kit. So hats off to the third party's who have all beat GW/Forge World to market. Kudos. Keep up the good work. Perhaps "the real" at fans will chime in and tell me what heresy this is.
As I said on the GTD discord - I want a crane version as well, then you could do Genestealer Cult uprisings at Titanicus scale, grabbing up Warhounds and using them like wrecking balls to smash other enemies
I ordered the rules set last night, hopefully will pick it up today. Trying to decide on legio still. I think that above terrain piece (earth mover whatever) is what sold me . Leaning towards Traitor Legios as I see more opportunity to convert things.
Theophony wrote: I ordered the rules set last night, hopefully will pick it up today. Trying to decide on legio still. I think that above terrain piece (earth mover whatever) is what sold me . Leaning towards Traitor Legios as I see more opportunity to convert things.
If you really wanna go all out, check out the custom legio rules in the ryza book. You can still do a traitor custom legio, and still allows for corrupted titans.
Well the 30k trailer dropped and there was a surprisingly large amount of titans in it, here's some screenshots. Dare we hope adepticon might see something, anything, announced for AT or do we think they're gonna wrap it up after the dire wolf?
Crablezworth wrote: Well the 30k trailer dropped and there was a surprisingly large amount of titans in it, here's some screenshots. Dare we hope adepticon might see something, anything, announced for AT or do we think they're gonna wrap it up after the dire wolf?
Given AT wasn't on the list of games getting a preview, going by Monday's article, no, you shouldn't've been expecting anything.
Equally, positioning the situation as a binary choice - while kind of appropriate for the AdMech - is a bit daft. Just because they haven't previewed anything at Adepticon doesn't mean there won't be more stuff down the line.
Not sure why you're bothered if they preview more stuff - given your posts over the last couple of pages, it ain't like you're going to buy it anyway.
It wasn't a great "Epic" trailer, there're no Knight force, no secutarii, no air support, no xiphon, thunderhawk, fire raptor, storm eagle entering from space, etc, but there're orbital strike from battleship.
Crablezworth wrote: Well the 30k trailer dropped and there was a surprisingly large amount of titans in it, here's some screenshots. Dare we hope adepticon might see something, anything, announced for AT or do we think they're gonna wrap it up after the dire wolf?
Given AT wasn't on the list of games getting a preview, going by Monday's article, no, you shouldn't've been expecting anything.
You should work for GW. The tone is a pitch perfect match.
Crablezworth wrote: Well the 30k trailer dropped and there was a surprisingly large amount of titans in it, here's some screenshots. Dare we hope adepticon might see something, anything, announced for AT or do we think they're gonna wrap it up after the dire wolf?
Equally, positioning the situation as a binary choice - while kind of appropriate for the AdMech - is a bit daft. Just because they haven't previewed anything at Adepticon doesn't mean there won't be more stuff down the line.
It would seem its absence indicative that AT in its current iteration appears to be on the way out or continues to be in no way a priority.
Crablezworth wrote: Well the 30k trailer dropped and there was a surprisingly large amount of titans in it, here's some screenshots. Dare we hope adepticon might see something, anything, announced for AT or do we think they're gonna wrap it up after the dire wolf?
Not sure why you're bothered if they preview more stuff - given your posts over the last couple of pages, it ain't like you're going to buy it anyway.
Really? We're gonna do the I'm not a good enough consumer now?
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Kanluwen wrote: They literally started doing the "preshow announcements" to manage expectations.
What, exactly, could they do beyond that?
Not let every third party beat them to market by months perhaps, they previewed the dire wolf a while ago now. At least show us a terminal.
I don’t understand your doomerism on this issue at all crabblzeworth. You seem absolutely intent about it (mostly on the basis of a random 4chan post, from what I remember), and you’re the only one that’s pushing this theory, and it’s bizarre to me because it’s entirely without basis, it’s unproductive (with respect, I personally find it wearying and I think I detect that from others too) and I don’t think any fans of the other specialist games see the slower rate of sg releases in the same overly negative way. There is no ‘blood bowl is dying guys I just know it’ talk around here, for example (none that I can remember anyway).
Your whole upset is over the fact that "third parties beat them to market by months"?
How many of those third parties are actually selling physical products versus STL files? How many of those third parties are actually getting their products on store shelves?
JWBS wrote: I don’t understand your doomerism on this issue at all crabblzeworth. You seem absolutely intent about it (mostly on the basis of a random 4chan post, from what I remember), and you’re the only one that’s pushing this theory, and it’s bizarre to me because it’s entirely without basis, it’s unproductive (with respect, I personally find it wearying and I think I detect that from others too) and I don’t think any fans of the other specialist games see the slower rate of sg releases in the same overly negative way. There is no ‘blood bowl is dying guys I just know it’ talk around here, for example (none that I can remember anyway).
Blood Bowl has a slightly different problem, I've seen, and it's that the Blood Bowl "doomers" try to loudly convince everybody that nobody plays Blood Bowl, while the Blood Bowl players happily play.
Your whole upset is over the fact that "third parties beat them to market by months"?
How many of those third parties are actually selling physical products versus STL files? How many of those third parties are actually getting their products on store shelves?
It's almost like my painted dire wolf can't really be played without a terminal and rules... this is something not currently available from third party's. Why is that a good thing?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
JWBS wrote: I don’t understand your doomerism on this issue at all crabblzeworth. You seem absolutely intent about it (mostly on the basis of a random 4chan post, from what I remember), and you’re the only one that’s pushing this theory, and it’s bizarre to me because it’s entirely without basis, it’s unproductive (with respect, I personally find it wearying and I think I detect that from others too) and I don’t think any fans of the other specialist games see the slower rate of sg releases in the same overly negative way. There is no ‘blood bowl is dying guys I just know it’ talk around here, for example (none that I can remember anyway).
I can't stress how little I care if you feel it's productive, it's true. The game is on the decline from what I can see and I've given my reasons for seeing it that way, which is always used to shoot the messenger and character assassinate.
JWBS wrote: I don’t understand your doomerism on this issue at all crabblzeworth. You seem absolutely intent about it (mostly on the basis of a random 4chan post, from what I remember), and you’re the only one that’s pushing this theory, and it’s bizarre to me because it’s entirely without basis, it’s unproductive (with respect, I personally find it wearying and I think I detect that from others too) and I don’t think any fans of the other specialist games see the slower rate of sg releases in the same overly negative way. There is no ‘blood bowl is dying guys I just know it’ talk around here, for example (none that I can remember anyway).
Blood Bowl has a slightly different problem, I've seen, and it's that the Blood Bowl "doomers" try to loudly convince everybody that nobody plays Blood Bowl, while the Blood Bowl players happily play.
All the same still seems worth it to defend the fair maiden, who apparently requires no defense.
Okay, I thought my criticism was respectfully put but your response has confirmed to me that your opinions can be entirely ignored (and likely derided) from now on, ty.
JWBS wrote: Okay, I thought my criticism was respectfully put but your response has confirmed to me that your opinions can be entirely ignored (and likely derided) from now on, ty.
That's cool, here's some AT content other than shooting the messenger and tone policing.
Your whole upset is over the fact that "third parties beat them to market by months"?
How many of those third parties are actually selling physical products versus STL files? How many of those third parties are actually getting their products on store shelves?
It's almost like my painted dire wolf can't really be played without a terminal and rules... this is something not currently available from third party's. Why is that a good thing?
Is the Dire Wolf even released yet, outside of third parties?
Why should they care that you're not able to play with something you got from elsewhere? Why do you expect them to cater to that?
Your whole upset is over the fact that "third parties beat them to market by months"?
How many of those third parties are actually selling physical products versus STL files? How many of those third parties are actually getting their products on store shelves?
It's almost like my painted dire wolf can't really be played without a terminal and rules... this is something not currently available from third party's. Why is that a good thing?
Is the Dire Wolf even released yet, outside of third parties?
Why should they care that you're not able to play with something you got from elsewhere? Why do you expect them to cater to that?
"Why should the company that requires profit to still exist make things consumers want?" Is what I get from that.
Your whole upset is over the fact that "third parties beat them to market by months"?
How many of those third parties are actually selling physical products versus STL files? How many of those third parties are actually getting their products on store shelves?
It's almost like my painted dire wolf can't really be played without a terminal and rules... this is something not currently available from third party's. Why is that a good thing?
Is the Dire Wolf even released yet, outside of third parties?
Why should they care that you're not able to play with something you got from elsewhere? Why do you expect them to cater to that?
"Why should the company that requires profit to still exist make things consumers want?" Is what I get from that.
I want a hamburger. Why don't they make that?
Take a breath, count to ten and come back when you are rested.
Your whole upset is over the fact that "third parties beat them to market by months"?
How many of those third parties are actually selling physical products versus STL files? How many of those third parties are actually getting their products on store shelves?
It's almost like my painted dire wolf can't really be played without a terminal and rules... this is something not currently available from third party's. Why is that a good thing?
Is the Dire Wolf even released yet, outside of third parties?
Why should they care that you're not able to play with something you got from elsewhere? Why do you expect them to cater to that?
"Why should the company that requires profit to still exist make things consumers want?" Is what I get from that.
I want a hamburger. Why don't they make that?
Take a breath, count to ten and come back when you are rested.
The dire wolf is in the title of this thread, if you go back, you can see it previewed, followed by third parties, followed by literally me posting a finished third party one because it still hasn't been released. Why is that good? Why is that good for GW? Why is it bad for me to want them to release a model or at least announce when it will be released?
JWBS wrote: Okay, I thought my criticism was respectfully put but your response has confirmed to me that your opinions can be entirely ignored (and likely derided) from now on, ty.
That's cool, here's some AT content other than shooting the messenger and tone policing.
The message is a baseless claim that is so oft repeated by you that it can now accurately be classified as a rant. But yes carry on. It will eventually be proven correct, given a long enough span of time.
Your whole upset is over the fact that "third parties beat them to market by months"?
How many of those third parties are actually selling physical products versus STL files? How many of those third parties are actually getting their products on store shelves?
It's almost like my painted dire wolf can't really be played without a terminal and rules... this is something not currently available from third party's. Why is that a good thing?
Is the Dire Wolf even released yet, outside of third parties?
Why should they care that you're not able to play with something you got from elsewhere? Why do you expect them to cater to that?
"Why should the company that requires profit to still exist make things consumers want?" Is what I get from that.
I want a hamburger. Why don't they make that?
Take a breath, count to ten and come back when you are rested.
The dire wolf is in the title of this thread, if you go back, you can see it previewed, followed by third parties, followed by literally me posting a finished third party one because it still hasn't been released. Why is that good? Why is that good for GW? Why is it bad for me to want them to release a model or at least announce when it will be released?
GW as a company must continue to preview items to keep the excitement alive. With the current worldwide global reset happening and delays on material, shipping and everything else lead times are insane. The specialist range takes a backseat to the main games and items get pushed back. A company that needs to maximize its production and shipping has to make cuts in some places and AT is far less productive than 40K. One specialist game model which is never going to sell more than a couple pieces to avid gamers is such a smaller priority it is silly.
On the fact that third party people can get stls out quicker than physical models, do you even realize what your saying? They literally spent a couple hours at most making modifications to another stl file. There is no comparing a 3d print model to the designs that are produced by GW, are approved by the powers that be at GW and then still need all the info sent to development to have "Proper" terminals made and approved. Not to mention them producing them and marketing the kit. Third party people come in with an "acceptably similar" design after half the work is done and don't have to worry about production and development of any physical aspects of the game.
The title of the thread has changed many times in the 5+ years that this thread has been running. More often than not the title changes when the model is announced and it is a while before they become available. Nothing new here.
You make wonderful models, paint great details and bring a lot to the forum, but recently you have become exceedingly negative. Most times I just put people on Ignore, but your AT stuff is a reason that I have gotten the starter set and I do want to see more of your work so I haven't.
JWBS wrote: I don’t understand your doomerism on this issue at all crabblzeworth. You seem absolutely intent about it (mostly on the basis of a random 4chan post, from what I remember), and you’re the only one that’s pushing this theory, and it’s bizarre to me because it’s entirely without basis, it’s unproductive (with respect, I personally find it wearying and I think I detect that from others too) and I don’t think any fans of the other specialist games see the slower rate of sg releases in the same overly negative way. There is no ‘blood bowl is dying guys I just know it’ talk around here, for example (none that I can remember anyway).
To expand on this a little:
Blood Bowl was released in 2016, had a slow down in new releases, then saw a second edition in late 2020 followed by regular new models.
Necromunda was released in 2017, had a slow down in new releases last year, and just over four years later we're now seeing a fairly substantial update in a new setting with vehicles.
Adeptus Titanicus was released in 2018, and is currently undergoing a slow down in in new content...
Your whole upset is over the fact that "third parties beat them to market by months"?
How many of those third parties are actually selling physical products versus STL files? How many of those third parties are actually getting their products on store shelves?
It's almost like my painted dire wolf can't really be played without a terminal and rules... this is something not currently available from third party's. Why is that a good thing?
Is the Dire Wolf even released yet, outside of third parties?
Why should they care that you're not able to play with something you got from elsewhere? Why do you expect them to cater to that?
"Why should the company that requires profit to still exist make things consumers want?" Is what I get from that.
I want a hamburger. Why don't they make that?
Take a breath, count to ten and come back when you are rested.
The dire wolf is in the title of this thread, if you go back, you can see it previewed, followed by third parties, followed by literally me posting a finished third party one because it still hasn't been released. Why is that good? Why is that good for GW? Why is it bad for me to want them to release a model or at least announce when it will be released?
GW as a company must continue to preview items to keep the excitement alive. With the current worldwide global reset happening and delays on material, shipping and everything else lead times are insane. The specialist range takes a backseat to the main games and items get pushed back. A company that needs to maximize its production and shipping has to make cuts in some places and AT is far less productive than 40K. One specialist game model which is never going to sell more than a couple pieces to avid gamers is such a smaller priority it is silly.
On the fact that third party people can get stls out quicker than physical models, do you even realize what your saying? They literally spent a couple hours at most making modifications to another stl file. There is no comparing a 3d print model to the designs that are produced by GW, are approved by the powers that be at GW and then still need all the info sent to development to have "Proper" terminals made and approved. Not to mention them producing them and marketing the kit. Third party people come in with an "acceptably similar" design after half the work is done and don't have to worry about production and development of any physical aspects of the game.
The title of the thread has changed many times in the 5+ years that this thread has been running. More often than not the title changes when the model is announced and it is a while before they become available. Nothing new here.
You make wonderful models, paint great details and bring a lot to the forum, but recently you have become exceedingly negative. Most times I just put people on Ignore, but your AT stuff is a reason that I have gotten the starter set and I do want to see more of your work so I haven't.
Call it tough love and It seems you've discovered the trick, if my words have a negative impact then ignore them. That's not the same as me owing this game or its maker universal fealty and praise. I put a lot of time into this, it's proportional to how strongly I feel about certain aspects of the game, for better or worse.
But c'mon, half this hobby is shoot the damn messenger. I'd like rules for the dire wolf now. I don't think that's negative or controversial to say in the slightest. And as someone who understands the concept of under promise and over deliver, they can set expectations all they want with a preview of what games are getting some sort of announcement, little old me just thought maybe we'd see a picture of the dire wolf or maybe even an announcement on when it will be released. How many pages before this turns from discussing rumours and upcoming releases to just lets defend gw at all cost for sheer lack of new releases on the horizon.
Wanting them to release rules for a model they previewed a while ago for a game I play is not negative, For all the wish listing about xenos titans, I post some and no one bats an eye and they honestly fit the scale pretty well. I appreciate the kind words in relation to the models/painting, but I'm not exactly troubled if you find my opinions not your liking, you don't have to suffer them to skip right to the photos. Skin in the game, basically.
Anyway, here's hoping we see the dire wolf terminal/rules soon. Seeing them in relation to adepticon would have been nice.
Something I noticed while re-reading the custom legio rules, one of the traits, vanguard fighters, mentions scale 6 and 7 titans, this is the one that allows them to first fire without command check if no other friendly titan is within 6 inches and gives +1 to hit, could be very good for the dire wolf, if we ever see it.
JWBS wrote: I don’t understand your doomerism on this issue at all crabblzeworth. You seem absolutely intent about it (mostly on the basis of a random 4chan post, from what I remember), and you’re the only one that’s pushing this theory, and it’s bizarre to me because it’s entirely without basis, it’s unproductive (with respect, I personally find it wearying and I think I detect that from others too) and I don’t think any fans of the other specialist games see the slower rate of sg releases in the same overly negative way. There is no ‘blood bowl is dying guys I just know it’ talk around here, for example (none that I can remember anyway).
To expand on this a little:
Blood Bowl was released in 2016, had a slow down in new releases, then saw a second edition in late 2020 followed by regular new models.
Necromunda was released in 2017, had a slow down in new releases last year, and just over four years later we're now seeing a fairly substantial update in a new setting with vehicles.
Adeptus Titanicus was released in 2018, and is currently undergoing a slow down in in new content...
And even blood bowl is getting announcements. The slow down seems palpable. I get hated for mentioning the rumour that it might end this year, but again it could. Just like 30k getting 2.0, that could be where its heading next year.
Dude, not every game is getting announcements every event. That's life. I would love for Middle-Earth and Warcry to get something every time, but they don't so they wait their turn.
Heck, the article even makes it clear that it will not be an immediate thing:
Both variations of the Dire Wolf Heavy Scout Titan will be available from Forge World later in the year.
I really fail to see how it is GW's fault that you bought a third party iteration of that model before the rules were ever out and are now stuck waiting.
Heck, the article even makes it clear that it will not be an immediate thing:
Both variations of the Dire Wolf Heavy Scout Titan will be available from Forge World later in the year.
I really fail to see how it is GW's fault that you bought a third party iteration of that model before the rules were ever out and are now stuck waiting.
Explain why any of this is good for me. I'll wait.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Inquisitor Gideon wrote: Dude, not every game is getting announcements every event. That's life. I would love for Middle-Earth and Warcry to get something every time, but they don't so they wait their turn.
You're right, I guess I'll stop sharing my opinions now. Oh wait, no I won't.
And GW normally operates on a principle of releasing a model within 3 months of previewing it. So we've got the whole of April before we're outside that window.
The cardstock terminal may make this a little trickier for AT, depending on where they're produced.
So, you're gonna buy one? Or are you just waiting for the terminals+rules to hit the web?
This is the whole situation in a nutshell. You couldn't wait to buy it, and now you're stuck waiting for the rules. Bummer I guess?
I bought a Thanatar from FW for my AdMech in advance of a book that never ended up happening and rules that have never materialized. Life sucks, I guess?
Kanluwen wrote: Explain why you should be able to play with a model from a third party before the official model is ever released.
I'll wait.
My entire lamentation is I can't, explain why that should make me content.
"Hey this guy wants GW to release rules and a model they previewed months ago" like how is this bad?
Literally 60 days since they previewed it.
If they released the rules for you now, then when the next book comes out with the rules printed in it people will cry that it's just filler and it was already release. GW will make the rules available probably in the next book, it's their way of generating revenue. You don't like it...too bad.
At this point you begin to look like the brat child that throws a temper tantrum at the FLGS because their opponent (Who is playing by the rules) isn't letting little timmy win like mommy and daddy do at home. It makes everyone else in the place dislike showing up to the shop to play because he whines and cries at every opportunity. The store owner is put in the bad spot of possibly losing sales by telling little timmy's parents off, or driving away other customers. I'd like to see preview of this game and hear good things about it, but now when I open the thread it's complaints. It's not shooting the messenger it's saying to you that I (and possibly others that have raised a voice here) are tired of hearing it. Send GW an email, we cannot change anything for you and we all have enough other noise in our lives.
Kanluwen wrote: So, you're gonna buy one? Or are you just waiting for the terminals+rules to hit the web?
This is the whole situation in a nutshell. You couldn't wait to buy it, and now you're stuck waiting for the rules. Bummer I guess?
I bought a Thanatar from FW for my AdMech in advance of a book that never ended up happening and rules that have never materialized. Life sucks, I guess?
Kanluwen wrote: Explain why you should be able to play with a model from a third party before the official model is ever released.
I'll wait.
My entire lamentation is I can't, explain why that should make me content.
"Hey this guy wants GW to release rules and a model they previewed months ago" like how is this bad?
Literally 60 days since they previewed it.
If they released the rules for you now, then when the next book comes out with the rules printed in it people will cry that it's just filler and it was already release. GW will make the rules available probably in the next book, it's their way of generating revenue. You don't like it...too bad.
At this point you begin to look like the brat child that throws a temper tantrum at the FLGS because their opponent (Who is playing by the rules) isn't letting little timmy win like mommy and daddy do at home. It makes everyone else in the place dislike showing up to the shop to play because he whines and cries at every opportunity. The store owner is put in the bad spot of possibly losing sales by telling little timmy's parents off, or driving away other customers. I'd like to see preview of this game and hear good things about it, but now when I open the thread it's complaints. It's not shooting the messenger it's saying to you that I (and possibly others that have raised a voice here) are tired of hearing it. Send GW an email, we cannot change anything for you and we all have enough other noise in our lives.
I'm not the topic, fren. Do you own stock or something?
Yeah, its really meant more as a quick play version of battletech. Rules are alright, some interesting mechanics, but nothing really spectacular. No heat or reactor management, mechs tend to be fairly mobile and can use jump jets to hop around. Firing weapons doesn't require a roll to hit, instead your opponent rolls a number of dice equal to a weapon stat (modified by certain factors) and has to beat a certain value, anything that doesn't meet the value causes some damage. Damage is handled by armor and structure points (the game refers to them as "dice" but you never roll them for any purpose, so instead they are really more spin-down counters), so you either have d6, d8, d10, or 12 armor and/or structure points - you generally take damage to your armor first and once thats depleted to your structure, once structure = 0 you are destroyed. Some weapons bypass armor and do points to structure while the armor is still up. They can do additional effects like "kinetic" which causes the mech being hit to rotate 45 degrees from the impact (useful in order to prevent reactive return fire). Uses an alternating activation system, you can spend points on support assets (didn't really get a chance to look at those, they have things like orbital bombardments, deployable mine-drones, etc. Ash has also mentioned things like infantry, tanks, and non-mech battlegroup models, but its not clear if those are currently in the game or not, he said that he has expansions planned to open up more battlegroup options for things like aircraft, etc.).
All in all, its a fairly simple game to play. You can use your titanicus models for it, but the game won't play anything at all like a titan battle - if you're looking for ponderous and slow "battleships that walk" type action, the game is not really modeling that, its focused on more dynamic and faster paced smaller mechs that are hopping around the battlefield and taking cover behind buildings. Games also look to generally be pretty short - I watched a lets play on youtube and they were basically destroying 1 mech per turn, by the end of the 3rd round half the mechs were wrecked and the remainder were basically held together by duct tape and bubblegum, IIRC the game ended on turn 4 with like 1 mech left standing.
Dysartes wrote: And GW normally operates on a principle of releasing a model within 3 months of previewing it. So we've got the whole of April before we're outside that window.
The cardstock terminal may make this a little trickier for AT, depending on where they're produced.
The thinner ones would be easier to find a domestic printer for than the thicker ones. Would very much welcome the tick card stock ones for the warmaster and the dire wolf, dare to dream I guess.
Yeah, its really meant more as a quick play version of battletech. Rules are alright, some interesting mechanics, but nothing really spectacular. No heat or reactor management, mechs tend to be fairly mobile and can use jump jets to hop around. Firing weapons doesn't require a roll to hit, instead your opponent rolls a number of dice equal to a weapon stat (modified by certain factors) and has to beat a certain value, anything that doesn't meet the value causes some damage. Damage is handled by armor and structure points (the game refers to them as "dice" but you never roll them for any purpose, so instead they are really more spin-down counters), so you either have d6, d8, d10, or 12 armor and/or structure points - you generally take damage to your armor first and once thats depleted to your structure, once structure = 0 you are destroyed. Some weapons bypass armor and do points to structure while the armor is still up. They can do additional effects like "kinetic" which causes the mech being hit to rotate 45 degrees from the impact (useful in order to prevent reactive return fire). Uses an alternating activation system, you can spend points on support assets (didn't really get a chance to look at those, they have things like orbital bombardments, deployable mine-drones, etc. Ash has also mentioned things like infantry, tanks, and non-mech battlegroup models, but its not clear if those are currently in the game or not, he said that he has expansions planned to open up more battlegroup options for things like aircraft, etc.).
All in all, its a fairly simple game to play. You can use your titanicus models for it, but the game won't play anything at all like a titan battle - if you're looking for ponderous and slow "battleships that walk" type action, the game is not really modeling that, its focused on more dynamic and faster paced smaller mechs that are hopping around the battlefield and taking cover behind buildings. Games also look to generally be pretty short - I watched a lets play on youtube and they were basically destroying 1 mech per turn, by the end of the 3rd round half the mechs were wrecked and the remainder were basically held together by duct tape and bubblegum, IIRC the game ended on turn 4 with like 1 mech left standing.
Kanluwen wrote: So, you're gonna buy one? Or are you just waiting for the terminals+rules to hit the web?
This is the whole situation in a nutshell. You couldn't wait to buy it, and now you're stuck waiting for the rules. Bummer I guess?
I bought a Thanatar from FW for my AdMech in advance of a book that never ended up happening and rules that have never materialized. Life sucks, I guess?
Don't ever work in sales.
Have done so. Your complaints are nothing but the song of the "wasn't gonna buy it anyways" crowd.
Kanluwen wrote: Explain why you should be able to play with a model from a third party before the official model is ever released.
I'll wait.
Explain to me why it bothers you if someone does, unless you have a vested financial interest in company.
The topic is apparently why not releasing something is a good thing.
I mean, the topic is Adeptus Titanicus news and rumours...but you've hijacked it with your line of "how dare they not show us a firm release date for this thing that I'm not going to buy anyways but I need the rules for!".
I'm not the topic, fren. Do you own stock or something?
You've kind of made yourself the topic, but we can remedy that.
SamusDrake wrote: Someone has to say it; the Direwolf argument is getting annoying.
Lets move on.
Yes please. This is the most annoying conversation I've seen in a while.
It's like someone makes a rip-off of Metroid ahead of the actual Metroid game being released, but the rip-off is scuffed and crappy and people are wondering why the original company wont make the rip-off functional. Like... uh???
If you feel a need to respond to the above sentences and rip them apart, just don't. Sit on your hands for an hour and go watch some Fortnite meme clips.
Beyond the topic - maybe this entire forum - but I'm now thinking of getting a Switch and Metroid Dread...but...well...I don't know. Mercurysteam screwed up Samus Returns with that !@$&ing Diggernaut, and not too best pleased with how they begrudged their staff from having credit, and then trying to turn Samus into a Tarantino hipster anti-hero....and quite frankly not a fan of evil-Big-Bird...
...sigh. Maybe I'd best put the money towards that new Chaos Knights boxset instead.
SamusDrake wrote: Beyond the topic - maybe this entire forum - but I'm now thinking of getting a Switch and Metroid Dread...but...well...I don't know. Mercurysteam screwed up Samus Returns with that !@$&ing Diggernaut, and not too best pleased with how they begrudged their staff from having credit, and then trying to turn Samus into a Tarantino hipster anti-hero....and quite frankly not a fan of evil-Big-Bird...
...sigh. Maybe I'd best put the money towards that new Chaos Knights boxset instead.
Not sure what any of the first part means as I haven't played video games in 20+ years , But I wonder, with GW using computers to design their newer models, how soon will we get the chaosified Knights for AT?
That said we do know that there is a Renegade Knights Banner expansion at some point in the future...unless GW does scrap the game, in which case we'll blow raspberries at them forever more...
SamusDrake wrote: Beyond the topic - maybe this entire forum - but I'm now thinking of getting a Switch and Metroid Dread...but...well...I don't know. Mercurysteam screwed up Samus Returns with that !@$&ing Diggernaut, and not too best pleased with how they begrudged their staff from having credit, and then trying to turn Samus into a Tarantino hipster anti-hero....and quite frankly not a fan of evil-Big-Bird...
...sigh. Maybe I'd best put the money towards that new Chaos Knights boxset instead.
Not sure what any of the first part means as I haven't played video games in 20+ years , But I wonder, with GW using computers to design their newer models, how soon will we get the chaosified Knights for AT?
Not anytime soon. I mean, we still don’t have Chaosified Titans yet. That being said, it would probably be easier to rescale the Chaos Knights before designing entirely new Chaos Titans and/or upgrade bits.
Remember when GW claimed the Warlord was so modular so that different types of carapace plating could be used?
JWBS wrote: I don’t understand your doomerism on this issue at all crabblzeworth. You seem absolutely intent about it (mostly on the basis of a random 4chan post, from what I remember), and you’re the only one that’s pushing this theory, and it’s bizarre to me because it’s entirely without basis, it’s unproductive (with respect, I personally find it wearying and I think I detect that from others too) and I don’t think any fans of the other specialist games see the slower rate of sg releases in the same overly negative way. There is no ‘blood bowl is dying guys I just know it’ talk around here, for example (none that I can remember anyway).
To expand on this a little:
Blood Bowl was released in 2016, had a slow down in new releases, then saw a second edition in late 2020 followed by regular new models.
Necromunda was released in 2017, had a slow down in new releases last year, and just over four years later we're now seeing a fairly substantial update in a new setting with vehicles.
Adeptus Titanicus was released in 2018, and is currently undergoing a slow down in in new content...
Long period of no plastic reveal could also mean they're making the 500 USD Emperor titans for lpeople out there who need it as a paperweight and never play the game. Think positively people
Chopstick wrote: Long period of no plastic reveal could also mean they're making the 500 USD Emperor titans for lpeople out there who need it as a paperweight and never play the game. Think positively people
Personally I hope its because they are working on a full corrupted chaos titan release. I feel the biggest gap is having non-mirror armies in the game. They need to break out of the early HH period and move the timeline forward into full chaos titans at the very least. The sooner the better otherwise they end up with a game where the new faction needs to be ever bigger and bigger to have any chance of gaining traction against an Imperial army that is ever growing with variety and models and tactical options.
Much as I'd love to see an Imperator - which is only the height of two warlords so still well within the practical realm of models for the tabletop at this scale, I'd rather see the game spread out and gain Chaos and Xenos.
SamusDrake wrote: Beyond the topic - maybe this entire forum - but I'm now thinking of getting a Switch and Metroid Dread...but...well...I don't know. Mercurysteam screwed up Samus Returns with that !@$&ing Diggernaut, and not too best pleased with how they begrudged their staff from having credit, and then trying to turn Samus into a Tarantino hipster anti-hero....and quite frankly not a fan of evil-Big-Bird...
...sigh. Maybe I'd best put the money towards that new Chaos Knights boxset instead.
Not sure what any of the first part means as I haven't played video games in 20+ years , But I wonder, with GW using computers to design their newer models, how soon will we get the chaosified Knights for AT?
Not anytime soon. I mean, we still don’t have Chaosified Titans yet. That being said, it would probably be easier to rescale the Chaos Knights before designing entirely new Chaos Titans and/or upgrade bits.
Remember when GW claimed the Warlord was so modular so that different types of carapace plating could be used?
Part of the problem might be making it easy for the secondary market to fill that gap.
It does make me wonder why this third party bumping is less of a problem when it's stuff by Battlebling or Grimdark Terrain. Or maybe that stuff was sorted out through PM's?
Basically they are alternative Titanicus-scale armigers for far, far less than Forgeworld's own offering, even if they don't include bases. Armigers are so small that its easy to overlook the differences.
For those of us who would like to make Knight armies, this is most welcome.
Malika2 wrote: It does make me wonder why this third party bumping is less of a problem when it's stuff by Battlebling or Grimdark Terrain. Or maybe that stuff was sorted out through PM's?
I suggest threads for those as well. Why it's the Titanicus news and rumours thread that gets flooded with 3rd party sculpts to such an extent compared to others, I don't know.
JWBS wrote: I like the third party AT stuff to be in the AT thread thanks, this makes it far easier to see w/o having to track the various threads.
No thanks. It pretty much is only the Titanicus thread that suffers from this. You don't see this happen in the 40k, AoS or other threads
While I do like the ability to see stuff like this without having to go looking for it, I do see your point. That being said, I think the link added without huge photos is acceptable. Now if Vanguard minis, who have their own thread, continuously posted stuff in here then I think it would be a bigger issue.
I will say it was the photo of Grimdark terrain's huge excavator that got me to order the Adeptus Titanicus rules, so growth in a market is good, especially since I cannot get the main starter box from GW or local shops.
Theophony wrote: While I do like the ability to see stuff like this without having to go looking for it, I do see your point. That being said, I think the link added without huge photos is acceptable. Now if Vanguard minis, who have their own thread, continuously posted stuff in here then I think it would be a bigger issue.
I will say it was the photo of Grimdark terrain's huge excavator that got me to order the Adeptus Titanicus rules, so growth in a market is good, especially since I cannot get the main starter box from GW or local shops.
Thing is, once a link is posted, the thread is just bumped over and over as everyone responds to the other 3rd party piece instead of anything actually about Adeptus Titanicus directly. This is made worse as no one has bothered starting a Grimdark or Battlebling thread. Probably happens regularly to Titanicus as not many mods play it
Personally I hate when this thread gets bumped (frequently) every time someone decides to break out the "Hey let's discuss Epic!" conversation and several people join in the fun. That's worse because it's more common than a 3rd party model drop and it's also literally OT. I don't think it's my place to try to prevent it though since I'm not a mod. I just console myself by thinking bad thoughts about the people that do it : )
JWBS wrote: Personally I hate when this thread gets bumped (frequently) every time someone decides to break out the "Hey let's discuss Epic!" conversation and several people join in the fun. That's worse because it's more common than a 3rd party model drop and it's also literally OT. I don't think it's my place to try to prevent it though since I'm not a mod. I just console myself by thinking bad thoughts about the people that do it : )
Indeed, the amount of times I've hit the yellow triangle over that tangent...
News threads meander when there's no new news. Better get used to it, I guess?
How about no. Let's just stick to posting news and rumours when there is actual news and rumours and leave the thread when there isn't. Plenty of threads in the specialist games section for off topic, Titanicus related discussion
The third party is the majority of AT releases, it fills the void, outside of complaining about complaining or, the ever weird complaining about wanting something previewed to get a release date in a rumour thread
JWBS wrote: I like the third party AT stuff to be in the AT thread thanks, this makes it far easier to see w/o having to track the various threads.
No thanks. It pretty much is only the Titanicus thread that suffers from this. You don't see this happen in the 40k, AoS or other threads
While I do like the ability to see stuff like this without having to go looking for it, I do see your point. That being said, I think the link added without huge photos is acceptable. Now if Vanguard minis, who have their own thread, continuously posted stuff in here then I think it would be a bigger issue.
I will say it was the photo of Grimdark terrain's huge excavator that got me to order the Adeptus Titanicus rules, so growth in a market is good, especially since I cannot get the main starter box from GW or local shops.
That's good to hear, the terrain aspect of titanicus is one of the best parts,
News threads meander when there's no new news. Better get used to it, I guess?
How about no. Let's just stick to posting news and rumours when there is actual news and rumours and leave the thread when there isn't. Plenty of threads in the specialist games section for off topic, Titanicus related discussion
Well, you do you then. Meanwhile, the thread will do the thread. There's plenty of threads for everything in this form, and yet... news threads meander. They do, and they will.
Crablezworth wrote:The third party is the majority of AT releases, it fills the void, outside of complaining about complaining or, the ever weird complaining about wanting something previewed to get a release date in a rumour thread
Then create a thread for those companies! They're not Titanicus releases, they're Battlebling, Grimdark or whatever releases that just happen to be compatible. Do I need to stick GW in the thread title? Hell, it's even in the Please read thread stickied post at the top:
we ask þat you make every effort to combine information about a single company's releases into as few þreads as humanly possible.
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Albertorius wrote: Well, you do you then. Meanwhile, the thread will do the thread. There's plenty of threads for everything in this form, and yet... news threads meander. They do, and they will.
There's meandering and then there's what happens in this thread (which hasn't had anything concrete for 2 months). For example, I love the Unreal Wargaming Studios bases for Titanicus. Recently ordered a bunch. Though you don't see me posting about their releases or possible re-releases, etc in this thread.
zedmeister wrote: I love the Unreal Wargaming Studios bases for Titanicus. Recently ordered a bunch. Though you don't see me posting about their releases or possible re-releases, etc in this thread.
Please post them, I'd much rather like to see those than be told to make separate threads for a dead game that being kept alive by those third parties. Like you said it's been 2 months, I'd rather fill the gap with titanicus relevant new releases than nothing. Even if there was seperate threads, stuff would just get posted in 2 places anyway.
Warmaster took over a year of no new release, Warbringer estimately took about 6-9 months, they had to drag out the release of questoris upgrade and Knight Acheron to fill in the blank even though they were done for a very long time.
Crablezworth wrote: The third party is the majority of AT releases, it fills the void, outside of complaining about complaining or, the ever weird complaining about wanting something previewed to get a release date in a rumour thread
No they aren't, only GW releases are AT releases. Many of us aren't interested in your third party models and come here specifically for official news, thats wht this thread exists. Go take your third party discussion to another thread.
Instead of fighting over it and trying to "push people out". Why not make a news post for 3rd party AT releases and encourage and welcome people to use that thread?
The reason AT gets "more of it than 40K" is likely just because this is a 40K forum so there are a LOT more threads on the subject. So they get broken up.
Meanwhile AT is a niche game and niche subgroup that doesn't even have its own subsection of its own. So the number of discussion threads is fewer so they become more comprehensive. If you want more specific threads - help make them rather than trying to tell people to leave the discussion etc...
There's no need for hostility within the community
I personally can understand the hostility. When I pop into the thread looking for discussion on official AT news, half the time I just see someone's half-butt attempts at a third party STL or 3d model or somesuch.
Great for you if that's what you're into, but go start a new thread and put all your STL stuff there. I couldn't care less about 3rd party titanicus stuff. I care about the official release and what GW is actually doing with it.
Calling 3rd party anything 'GW product' is absolutely ignorant and laughable.
That said, I think we're going to see more coming for AT with the Horus Heresy stuff. The trailer featured a LOT of Titan action. Could we see 30k Epic coming at last? Or perhaps a closer tie-in between AT and 30k campaigns? Would be neat.
drbored wrote: I personally can understand the hostility
...
Calling 3rd party anything 'GW product' is absolutely ignorant and laughable.
...
Could we see 30k Epic coming at last?...Would be neat.
Ignorant and laughable, yes. Let's talk Epic again that's always cool.
At least the third party news is actual news, instead of the same people saying the same stuff to each other about a game that doesn't even exist, over and again in a tedious rhythm.
Overread wrote: Instead of fighting over it and trying to "push people out". Why not make a news post for 3rd party AT releases and encourage and welcome people to use that thread?
There's no need for hostility within the community
Exactly that! I feel the hostile behaviour has become a bit of nasty gatekeeping.
Malika2 wrote: Exactly that! I feel the hostile behaviour has become a bit of nasty gatekeeping.
Nobodies stopping you posting, just post it in the appropriate thread. I doubt you’d be too pleased if someone wanders into your thread promoting their own wares and products. It’s just downright rude
Malika2 wrote: Exactly that! I feel the hostile behaviour has become a bit of nasty gatekeeping.
Nobodies stopping you posting, just post it in the appropriate thread. I doubt you’d be too pleased if someone wanders into your thread promoting their own wares and products. It’s just downright rude
Fair enough! I get where you’re coming from with this. It kinda reminds me of the various AT themed FB groups. Kinda how Adeptus Titanicus Fans was a split from Adeptus Titanicus 2018.
Maybe we should start a new thread that allows for both GW and non GW content. With blackjack and hookers! Maybe forget the blackjack!
Malika2 wrote: Exactly that! I feel the hostile behaviour has become a bit of nasty gatekeeping.
Nobodies stopping you posting, just post it in the appropriate thread. I doubt you’d be too pleased if someone wanders into your thread promoting their own wares and products. It’s just downright rude
Fair enough! I get where you’re coming from with this. It kinda reminds me of the various AT themed FB groups. Kinda how Adeptus Titanicus Fans was a split from Adeptus Titanicus 2018.
Maybe we should start a new thread that allows for both GW and non GW content. With blackjack and hookers! Maybe forget the blackjack!
The 2018 facebook group was literally banning randomly banning people over 3rd printing for like 2 years but gave vanguard models a pass for some reason, I literally have to use an alt just to access it. It's gatekeeping personified.
Malika2 wrote: Exactly that! I feel the hostile behaviour has become a bit of nasty gatekeeping.
Nobodies stopping you posting, just post it in the appropriate thread. I doubt you’d be too pleased if someone wanders into your thread promoting their own wares and products. It’s just downright rude
Rude to who? GW?
Spoiler:
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Chopstick wrote: That metal armiger have a pilot and didn't have bent barrels like the "Authentic" GW one, 10/10.
That kit looks like it sold well too, such a great idea too.
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drbored wrote: I personally can understand the hostility.
That cuts both ways, fren.
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Overread wrote: Instead of fighting over it and trying to "push people out". Why not make a news post for 3rd party AT releases and encourage and welcome people to use that thread?
The reason AT gets "more of it than 40K" is likely just because this is a 40K forum so there are a LOT more threads on the subject. So they get broken up.
Meanwhile AT is a niche game and niche subgroup that doesn't even have its own subsection of its own. So the number of discussion threads is fewer so they become more comprehensive. If you want more specific threads - help make them rather than trying to tell people to leave the discussion etc...
There's no need for hostility within the community
Agreed. If someone wants to make a new thread good one them, how they imagine they won't be seeing double posting is beyond me though.
Standards. I don’t care whether it’s a multimillion pound corporation or a one man band. Keep companies releases to their own threads. Besides, it’s rude to everyone and that’s not even counting for the fact that it’s literally in the stickied post at the top. Besides, I’m sure Battlebling would be very appreciative of a separate thread anyway for the simple fact of highlighting they exist.
Dire Wolf Heavy Scout Titans strike out ahead of a Legio’s lumbering Warlord and Reaver Titans, but can still pack a formidable punch with their carapace-mounted Volcano Cannons and Neutron Lasers. They present a deadly new challenge for your foe – and a valuable tool for your own titanic armies.
I think the main problem with them is they got "t-rex arms". Big body, big head, big legs, big weapon on the back, big shoulders, and then these small stubby arm weapons. I enjoy everything about them except that aspect of them, I feel like with some slight modifications they could have sold the look better.
chaos0xomega wrote: I think the main problem with them is they got "t-rex arms". Big body, big head, big legs, big weapon on the back, big shoulders, and then these small stubby arm weapons. I enjoy everything about them except that aspect of them, I feel like with some slight modifications they could have sold the look better.
Came across these rumors on facebook, from an unknown source on an unknown discord, poster claims to be an influencer that got preview access during the in-person WHFest events over the past few days. I'm inclined to think they are bs, but sharing it with the dakkarati for posterity just in case theres something to it.
My take - "3-5 years out from release" is a hedge for a made up rumor, its far enough out in the future that the probability of it becoming true is fairly realistic, so this dude with his made up rumor can pat himself on the back and score fake internet points for "leaking" an accurate rumor, etc. Its also highly unlikely that they are doing a playtest -especially a semi-public playtest with influencers - for something that far out from release. Its highly unlikely that they even have rules that well developed that far in advance of release. While it was somewhat the case with Adeptus Titanicus, that was only because at the last minute the decision was made to release the game in plastic instead of resin, which necessitated about 2 years of additional product development before the game could actually be released.
Talk about "expanding to Xenos" is self-hedging. If it happens, "see, told you so", if it doesn't "well it was just talk so I guess they didn't go forward with it". "Rules similar to 4th Ed Armageddon and Original BFG" is a reasonable guess, none of the specialist games have deviated that far off their original pedigree, so its reasonable to assume they will be an evolution of their original incarnations rather than a revolution in terms of game design, the more they deviate than "the more changes that had to be made as a result of playtesting for the past 3-5 years" - i.e. more hedging.
40k mechanicus to 30k is an interesting one. Haven't seen anything else to corroborate this, in general it feels unlikely given the general consensus that GW is doing its damnedest to separate the model ranges between 30k and 40k and minimize or eliminate crossover between the two. If they eliminated Casterferrum dreads and Indomitus Pattern Termie armor it doesn't make sense that they would bring 41st millennium era AdMech sculpts in. My guess is that the source here is making gak up and throwing gak at the wall to see what sticks and took a guess here without considering observable trends and implications with it. This rumor might serve as a canary in a coal mine for us - if it comes to pass then it doesn't necessarily mean the rest of the rumors are *real* but it does raise their likelihood.
Dunno what the other leaks are referring to (Traitor leaks, loyalist leaks, custodes mech and human leaks, knights leak), unless the sources name is OK_Entrepreneur or ClockworkChris, etc. the sources for many of those leaks are fairly well known. Likewise, given that all that gak was leaked weeks ago, etc. it sounds an awful lot like someone trying to take credit for reposting gak in order to legitimize themselves, etc.
chaos0xomega wrote: I think the main problem with them is they got "t-rex arms". Big body, big head, big legs, big weapon on the back, big shoulders, and then these small stubby arm weapons. I enjoy everything about them except that aspect of them, I feel like with some slight modifications they could have sold the look better.
It’s the legs for me, and the head. The legs look really awkward and it’s just stood dead straight and still. And for some reason the Warhound head looks goofy here.
I actually like the static legs on this, more than the conversions of just a giant gun on the back of a standard warhound. It's meant to get into position, brace, and fire, not scamper around the battle like a scout titan.
Came across these rumors on facebook, from an unknown source on an unknown discord, poster claims to be an influencer that got preview access during the in-person WHFest events over the past few days. I'm inclined to think they are bs, but sharing it with the dakkarati for posterity just in case theres something to it.
My take - "3-5 years out from release" is a hedge for a made up rumor, its far enough out in the future that the probability of it becoming true is fairly realistic, so this dude with his made up rumor can pat himself on the back and score fake internet points for "leaking" an accurate rumor, etc. Its also highly unlikely that they are doing a playtest -especially a semi-public playtest with influencers - for something that far out from release. Its highly unlikely that they even have rules that well developed that far in advance of release. While it was somewhat the case with Adeptus Titanicus, that was only because at the last minute the decision was made to release the game in plastic instead of resin, which necessitated about 2 years of additional product development before the game could actually be released.
Talk about "expanding to Xenos" is self-hedging. If it happens, "see, told you so", if it doesn't "well it was just talk so I guess they didn't go forward with it". "Rules similar to 4th Ed Armageddon and Original BFG" is a reasonable guess, none of the specialist games have deviated that far off their original pedigree, so its reasonable to assume they will be an evolution of their original incarnations rather than a revolution in terms of game design, the more they deviate than "the more changes that had to be made as a result of playtesting for the past 3-5 years" - i.e. more hedging.
40k mechanicus to 30k is an interesting one. Haven't seen anything else to corroborate this, in general it feels unlikely given the general consensus that GW is doing its damnedest to separate the model ranges between 30k and 40k and minimize or eliminate crossover between the two. If they eliminated Casterferrum dreads and Indomitus Pattern Termie armor it doesn't make sense that they would bring 41st millennium era AdMech sculpts in. My guess is that the source here is making gak up and throwing gak at the wall to see what sticks and took a guess here without considering observable trends and implications with it. This rumor might serve as a canary in a coal mine for us - if it comes to pass then it doesn't necessarily mean the rest of the rumors are *real* but it does raise their likelihood.
Dunno what the other leaks are referring to (Traitor leaks, loyalist leaks, custodes mech and human leaks, knights leak), unless the sources name is OK_Entrepreneur or ClockworkChris, etc. the sources for many of those leaks are fairly well known. Likewise, given that all that gak was leaked weeks ago, etc. it sounds an awful lot like someone trying to take credit for reposting gak in order to legitimize themselves, etc.
But I'm a cynic and might be overthinking it.
Oh hey, I'm on the discord server those pics are from.
The mods confirmed the guy who posted that was lying.
chaos0xomega wrote: I think the main problem with them is they got "t-rex arms". Big body, big head, big legs, big weapon on the back, big shoulders, and then these small stubby arm weapons. I enjoy everything about them except that aspect of them, I feel like with some slight modifications they could have sold the look better.
Yeah, extend the arm gun barrels more and it'd have a different look.
Came across these rumors on facebook, from an unknown source on an unknown discord, poster claims to be an influencer that got preview access during the in-person WHFest events over the past few days. I'm inclined to think they are bs, but sharing it with the dakkarati for posterity just in case theres something to it.
My take - "3-5 years out from release" is a hedge for a made up rumor, its far enough out in the future that the probability of it becoming true is fairly realistic, so this dude with his made up rumor can pat himself on the back and score fake internet points for "leaking" an accurate rumor, etc. Its also highly unlikely that they are doing a playtest -especially a semi-public playtest with influencers - for something that far out from release. Its highly unlikely that they even have rules that well developed that far in advance of release. While it was somewhat the case with Adeptus Titanicus, that was only because at the last minute the decision was made to release the game in plastic instead of resin, which necessitated about 2 years of additional product development before the game could actually be released.
Talk about "expanding to Xenos" is self-hedging. If it happens, "see, told you so", if it doesn't "well it was just talk so I guess they didn't go forward with it". "Rules similar to 4th Ed Armageddon and Original BFG" is a reasonable guess, none of the specialist games have deviated that far off their original pedigree, so its reasonable to assume they will be an evolution of their original incarnations rather than a revolution in terms of game design, the more they deviate than "the more changes that had to be made as a result of playtesting for the past 3-5 years" - i.e. more hedging.
40k mechanicus to 30k is an interesting one. Haven't seen anything else to corroborate this, in general it feels unlikely given the general consensus that GW is doing its damnedest to separate the model ranges between 30k and 40k and minimize or eliminate crossover between the two. If they eliminated Casterferrum dreads and Indomitus Pattern Termie armor it doesn't make sense that they would bring 41st millennium era AdMech sculpts in. My guess is that the source here is making gak up and throwing gak at the wall to see what sticks and took a guess here without considering observable trends and implications with it. This rumor might serve as a canary in a coal mine for us - if it comes to pass then it doesn't necessarily mean the rest of the rumors are *real* but it does raise their likelihood.
Dunno what the other leaks are referring to (Traitor leaks, loyalist leaks, custodes mech and human leaks, knights leak), unless the sources name is OK_Entrepreneur or ClockworkChris, etc. the sources for many of those leaks are fairly well known. Likewise, given that all that gak was leaked weeks ago, etc. it sounds an awful lot like someone trying to take credit for reposting gak in order to legitimize themselves, etc.
But I'm a cynic and might be overthinking it.
Oh hey, I'm on the discord server those pics are from.
The mods confirmed the guy who posted that was lying.
Thanks for the confirmation, looked and felt like BS but wasn't positive. If anything todays 30k Ad Mech preview not featuring a single 40k model in the photograph made this rumor seem unlikely.
Came across these rumors on facebook, from an unknown source on an unknown discord, poster claims to be an influencer that got preview access during the in-person WHFest events over the past few days. I'm inclined to think they are bs, but sharing it with the dakkarati for posterity just in case theres something to it.
My take - "3-5 years out from release" is a hedge for a made up rumor, its far enough out in the future that the probability of it becoming true is fairly realistic, so this dude with his made up rumor can pat himself on the back and score fake internet points for "leaking" an accurate rumor, etc. Its also highly unlikely that they are doing a playtest -especially a semi-public playtest with influencers - for something that far out from release. Its highly unlikely that they even have rules that well developed that far in advance of release. While it was somewhat the case with Adeptus Titanicus, that was only because at the last minute the decision was made to release the game in plastic instead of resin, which necessitated about 2 years of additional product development before the game could actually be released.
Talk about "expanding to Xenos" is self-hedging. If it happens, "see, told you so", if it doesn't "well it was just talk so I guess they didn't go forward with it". "Rules similar to 4th Ed Armageddon and Original BFG" is a reasonable guess, none of the specialist games have deviated that far off their original pedigree, so its reasonable to assume they will be an evolution of their original incarnations rather than a revolution in terms of game design, the more they deviate than "the more changes that had to be made as a result of playtesting for the past 3-5 years" - i.e. more hedging.
40k mechanicus to 30k is an interesting one. Haven't seen anything else to corroborate this, in general it feels unlikely given the general consensus that GW is doing its damnedest to separate the model ranges between 30k and 40k and minimize or eliminate crossover between the two. If they eliminated Casterferrum dreads and Indomitus Pattern Termie armor it doesn't make sense that they would bring 41st millennium era AdMech sculpts in. My guess is that the source here is making gak up and throwing gak at the wall to see what sticks and took a guess here without considering observable trends and implications with it. This rumor might serve as a canary in a coal mine for us - if it comes to pass then it doesn't necessarily mean the rest of the rumors are *real* but it does raise their likelihood.
Dunno what the other leaks are referring to (Traitor leaks, loyalist leaks, custodes mech and human leaks, knights leak), unless the sources name is OK_Entrepreneur or ClockworkChris, etc. the sources for many of those leaks are fairly well known. Likewise, given that all that gak was leaked weeks ago, etc. it sounds an awful lot like someone trying to take credit for reposting gak in order to legitimize themselves, etc.
But I'm a cynic and might be overthinking it.
Oh hey, I'm on the discord server those pics are from.
The mods confirmed the guy who posted that was lying.
Not that I believe the rumors, but what would the mods of a Discord server know? It seems to me that if they were in a position to know one way or the other, they probably wouldn't be allowed to say (not without losing any playtest access they might have, at the very least).
That said, this sounds like a repeat of a rumor from Faeit 212 from last November, with some extra BS sprinkled around. I do believe that Epic 30k will be an official box game within a couple of years; too bad for me that I'm not into Heresy stuff.
While I don't believe this particular rumour, I do think that GW have two realistic options to push forward with this scale:
1) Introduce Xenos titans into AT 2) Bring other imperial units into a new Epic scale game set in the Heresy, and sell the same models to both loyalist and traitor players. This also reinforces the market for Chaos knights & titans under AT rules.
Perhaps they'll do both eventually, but I think the latter is more likely to happen first as there's an existing pool of model designs to grab from.
That's why I'm skipping this year's HH relaunch in the vain hope that we see a reboot of Epic: Space Marine in the next few years.
lord_blackfang wrote: Necromunda for sure ate all of this quarter's Specialist Games sprue allowance, and is Horus Heresy also coming out of that budget?
I wouldn't write off AT just yet, but GW clearly can't/won't do everything at once.
That's it exactly, and let's not forget that AT got two BIG kits last year.
The Dire Wolf looks like another 'tide you over' release like the resin Knights, and it's a perfect candidate for that because it's a niche Titan. I'll get some real utility out of it as an Audax player, but odds are it'll come in at a price point where most players of conventional Legios would just rather have a Reaver.
As I've said, the game has had a pretty glacial release rate of Titan kits ever since launch. And everything other than the Iconoclast has seemed to sell really well. I don't know why the community has to go through these hand-wringing exercises every time we're in a lull. Soon after AT launched, the studio said they were planning 'tweener Titans and a Psi-Titan. And we got the Psi and two of the 'tweeners so far. We just need to be patient. Would be hard to believe that they haven't worked on the Rapier in particular, given how many times it's been name-dropped at this point.
lord_blackfang wrote: Necromunda for sure ate all of this quarter's Specialist Games sprue allowance, and is Horus Heresy also coming out of that budget?
I wouldn't write off AT just yet, but GW clearly can't/won't do everything at once.
That's it exactly, and let's not forget that AT got two BIG kits last year.
Hopefully it's because AT's sprue allowance is now being pushed back for some kind of major update in 6-12 months time.
Necromunda saw a big slow down in plastic kits in 2021 compared to previous years, with most new models being in resin. Now there are new gangs, vehicles, and terrain appearing alongside the Ash Wastes relaunch and they'll probably be back to at least one new plastic kit every quarter. Blood Bowl had a similar process prior to it's new edition in late 2020.
I'm not sure what form an AT update will take, but with my business hat on I'd say that the best way to launch plastic Chaos titans would be as part of a boxed set like Ash Wastes. That's the easiest option to maximise sales for the first AT plastic model(s) only usable by traitor legion players rather than both sides.
gorgon wrote: That's it exactly, and let's not forget that AT got two BIG kits last year.
The Dire Wolf looks like another 'tide you over' release like the resin Knights, and it's a perfect candidate for that because it's a niche Titan. I'll get some real utility out of it as an Audax player, but odds are it'll come in at a price point where most players of conventional Legios would just rather have a Reaver.
As I've said, the game has had a pretty glacial release rate of Titan kits ever since launch. And everything other than the Iconoclast has seemed to sell really well. I don't know why the community has to go through these hand-wringing exercises every time we're in a lull. Soon after AT launched, the studio said they were planning 'tweener Titans and a Psi-Titan. And we got the Psi and two of the 'tweeners so far. We just need to be patient. Would be hard to believe that they haven't worked on the Rapier in particular, given how many times it's been name-dropped at this point.
I think this has the right ring of truth. After all, we've still got the Dominus Knights and the missing Moriax Weapons as further stop-gaps. Plus the odd weapon here or there. I wouldn't be surpirsed if the Neutron Laser doesn't make an appearance for a Reaver arm weapon or maybe the Saturnyne Lascutter for the Warlord. With the delayed Heresy and Necromunda releases this year, Titanicus is currently on a lull. I'm guessing that the Dire Wolf will actually be quite the seller, especially the Neutron Laser version.
AT isn't just in a lull, people are jumping ship. GW needs to communicate a roadmap. Just hearing official word that they have releases planned or the current iteration until the end of the year would be enough to stop the losses somewhat, but you also have the HH 2.0 release pulling on people's hobbie time. It's not surprising we're seeing a lull but a quarter year from preview to pre-order date is a pretty noticeable lull. It feels like it's soon to be over, that doesn't mean done mind you, just likely to see a new edition next year would be my guess after all the HH stuff has had time to settle. But I feel like 2022 is likely the end for this edition of AT, if we get anything else it will likely be one more book and maybe a titan or two in plastic if we're lucky. I like the idea of a re-launch box with chaos titans/knights but the problem is they don't really have am equiv for loyalist. The game is already skewed towards traitors given how corruptions work. The current balance is giving loyalist some broken stuff like vortex missiles and the psi titan, as much as I'd like to see chaos titans/knights, I'd much rather it be a series of upgrade kits than whole models, I would also want loyalists to get thrown a bone too in terms of bits/upgrades/bling.
But better communication would help, third party's are carrying the game, and they communicate regularly and don't need to use much fomo to sell their offerings.
lord_blackfang wrote: Necromunda for sure ate all of this quarter's Specialist Games sprue allowance, and is Horus Heresy also coming out of that budget?
I wouldn't write off AT just yet, but GW clearly can't/won't do everything at once.
That's it exactly, and let's not forget that AT got two BIG kits last year.
Hopefully it's because AT's sprue allowance is now being pushed back for some kind of major update in 6-12 months time.
Necromunda saw a big slow down in plastic kits in 2021 compared to previous years, with most new models being in resin. Now there are new gangs, vehicles, and terrain appearing alongside the Ash Wastes relaunch and they'll probably be back to at least one new plastic kit every quarter. Blood Bowl had a similar process prior to it's new edition in late 2020.
I'm not sure what form an AT update will take, but with my business hat on I'd say that the best way to launch plastic Chaos titans would be as part of a boxed set like Ash Wastes. That's the easiest option to maximise sales for the first AT plastic model(s) only usable by traitor legion players rather than both sides.
I really think GW will see the Heresy through...which means the missing 'tweener Titans and a campaign book(s) that covers the Siege. The Siege *could* take the form of an Ash Waste-style boxed set, but that feels more like an ending than a launch of a new phase...? Don't really see the sales/marketing legs there, but I could be wrong.
Personally I think a better AW-style set would be -- as with NM -- a new narrative and setting (Beast Arises?) with xenos Titans (likely Orks and Eldar). It'd be genuinely fresh and new in a way that Chaos Titans aren't, maybe rope in some 40K players who love their xenos, and provide a new setting they could milk for a while.
But I think that'd be a good while down the road. They plan this stuff -- especially the miniatures kits -- far in advance.
As much as I'd like to see other factions, eldar/orks/crons I don't trust their implementation.
We don't even have the gaming aids we need for a monofaction game model/terminal-wise. The upside of this is at least we all sortof suffer the same fate, ie 2 out 3 volkites being objectively bad pointswise. The good is we all suffer the same, its not like volkite is better for some legios. The downside is if they can't even get weapon releases right and quickly abandon doing further stand alone weapon releases and cede that to the third parties, what hope to other factions have? To dig up a dead horse, they still haven't rectified their miss step with the iconoclast(cynical weapon swap limits to try and force everyone to get 2 warmasters), which probably explains why my local store still has 4 of them, everyone found battlebling or got a printer I guess. They also haven't even offered up the sprue alone like with the warlord sprues. I welcome more factions if gw's going to get its act together and decide if they want the game to be modular or not.
Given the plastic necromunda bits packs and previewed plastic weapons kits for HH 2.0, giving us a bunch of resin for the last while then pretending a 190$ warmatser iconoclast was like some entirely new model because they made a single new sprue, where's the love? Third party's put out better more affordable armiger models with all the options, the resin asterius costs more than 2 pals tic warhounds, dire wolf likely to end up costing almost the same or more than a plastic warlord. Even if people loved that model, it's hard to expect large demand with so many better looking third party options having been available now for so long.
Also if we're talking silos of information, it sucks to have to wait till after its release to see the terminals.
gorgon wrote: That's it exactly, and let's not forget that AT got two BIG kits last year.
The Dire Wolf looks like another 'tide you over' release like the resin Knights, and it's a perfect candidate for that because it's a niche Titan. I'll get some real utility out of it as an Audax player, but odds are it'll come in at a price point where most players of conventional Legios would just rather have a Reaver.
As I've said, the game has had a pretty glacial release rate of Titan kits ever since launch. And everything other than the Iconoclast has seemed to sell really well. I don't know why the community has to go through these hand-wringing exercises every time we're in a lull. Soon after AT launched, the studio said they were planning 'tweener Titans and a Psi-Titan. And we got the Psi and two of the 'tweeners so far. We just need to be patient. Would be hard to believe that they haven't worked on the Rapier in particular, given how many times it's been name-dropped at this point.
I think this has the right ring of truth. After all, we've still got the Dominus Knights and the missing Moriax Weapons as further stop-gaps. Plus the odd weapon here or there. I wouldn't be surpirsed if the Neutron Laser doesn't make an appearance for a Reaver arm weapon or maybe the Saturnyne Lascutter for the Warlord. With the delayed Heresy and Necromunda releases this year, Titanicus is currently on a lull. I'm guessing that the Dire Wolf will actually be quite the seller, especially the Neutron Laser version.
Speaking of which, does anyone know the time at which FW pre-orders go up in the US?
Crablezworth wrote: AT isn't just in a lull, people are jumping ship. GW needs to communicate a roadmap. Just hearing official word that they have releases planned or the current iteration until the end of the year would be enough to stop the losses somewhat, but you also have the HH 2.0 release pulling on people's hobbie time. It's not surprising we're seeing a lull but a quarter year from preview to pre-order date is a pretty noticeable lull. It feels like it's soon to be over, that doesn't mean done mind you, just likely to see a new edition next year would be my guess after all the HH stuff has had time to settle. But I feel like 2022 is likely the end for this edition of AT, if we get anything else it will likely be one more book and maybe a titan or two in plastic if we're lucky. I like the idea of a re-launch box with chaos titans/knights but the problem is they don't really have am equiv for loyalist. The game is already skewed towards traitors given how corruptions work. The current balance is giving loyalist some broken stuff like vortex missiles and the psi titan, as much as I'd like to see chaos titans/knights, I'd much rather it be a series of upgrade kits than whole models, I would also want loyalists to get thrown a bone too in terms of bits/upgrades/bling.
But better communication would help, third party's are carrying the game, and they communicate regularly and don't need to use much fomo to sell their offerings.
If this is how you talk about the game in your local stores, no wonder people are jumping ship - you're worse than an Empire Flagellant.
Crablezworth wrote: AT isn't just in a lull, people are jumping ship. GW needs to communicate a roadmap. Just hearing official word that they have releases planned or the current iteration until the end of the year would be enough to stop the losses somewhat, but you also have the HH 2.0 release pulling on people's hobbie time. It's not surprising we're seeing a lull but a quarter year from preview to pre-order date is a pretty noticeable lull. It feels like it's soon to be over, that doesn't mean done mind you, just likely to see a new edition next year would be my guess after all the HH stuff has had time to settle. But I feel like 2022 is likely the end for this edition of AT, if we get anything else it will likely be one more book and maybe a titan or two in plastic if we're lucky. I like the idea of a re-launch box with chaos titans/knights but the problem is they don't really have am equiv for loyalist. The game is already skewed towards traitors given how corruptions work. The current balance is giving loyalist some broken stuff like vortex missiles and the psi titan, as much as I'd like to see chaos titans/knights, I'd much rather it be a series of upgrade kits than whole models, I would also want loyalists to get thrown a bone too in terms of bits/upgrades/bling.
But better communication would help, third party's are carrying the game, and they communicate regularly and don't need to use much fomo to sell their offerings.
If this is how you talk about the game in your local stores, no wonder people are jumping ship - you're worse than an Empire Flagellant.
I don't owe gw marketing speak or silver lining related proclamations, besides, no one even plays AT there and even if they did what would we have had to talk about for a quarter year on the gw release front? Especially for a model they won't be able to profit from being it's fw not GW (dire wolf) we could all sing songs of praise of its coming and it still wouldn't help the local scene really. Not to mention they (sore people) have to stare at 1000$ worth of iconoclasts because some hack that runs the game thought marketing speak would be enough to move a 200 dollar close combat titan in a game they've clearly never played once
I'll be right back to singing its praises if they release a few more plastic titans. Perhaps something not 200 dollars that could have been a sprue. Still hopeful that may happen but lulls are more manageable when we know how long they can be expected to last. 3-4 months radio silence between releases looks less than healthy, regardless of my complaints or praise.
Chopstick wrote: I'd buy anything that isn't Imperial Knight size and cost 150+ dollar.
I'm sure an even bigger titan would restore some good will, model wise it would be cool to see, game-wise, the warmasters about the limit and even then its awkward when both sides don't have one. Battebling seemingly is going to beat gw in the giant stompy robot department, the titan the previewed is like 14 inches tall.
Concerned if this isn't aux, was hearing the rundown of a test game where they put 3 of the lasers on hounds to see how they'd do and it kept a warmaster out for like 5/6 turns. Granted there could be other factors buffing shooting, but its easy to miss that its gets +1 already within 30 inches. So ya, 3 of them within short range on side or rear would be quite frustrating.
I think it may have been better to make it corridor arc, at least that way titans could potentially move out of the way once in a while. At least it will be taxing the dire wolf's reactor.
Let's not forget that a Warmaster is the perfect target for these guys: singular, expensive and thus less supported. An individual neutron laser isn't reliably shutting down anyone and likely costs more than a regular Hound, meaning that such spamming likely results in a very bad matchup against more balanced forces.
I wanted to buy into it a few months ago.had the money, printed some Titans, but couldn’t get the main set as it was out of stock at GW US for months. Local shops and distributors couldn’t get it either. Gave up. Saturday it came back in stock on the GW US page. Unfortunately, I’ve given up hope of GW being able to support multiple fronts, and them going into 30K means less attention to AT. It would be a great tie n, especially if they did epic alongside it, but nope.
Got a game of ASOIAF and arena Rex in and have a game of Bushido scheduled. I love the universe, hate GWmanagement of the game.
Sherrypie wrote: Let's not forget that a Warmaster is the perfect target for these guys: singular, expensive and thus less supported. An individual neutron laser isn't reliably shutting down anyone and likely costs more than a regular Hound, meaning that such spamming likely results in a very bad matchup against more balanced forces.
Ya it's more the concern it will have the ability to squadron, I don't thin one is the end of the world but would rather not see 3.
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Theophony wrote: I wanted to buy into it a few months ago.had the money, printed some Titans, but couldn’t get the main set as it was out of stock at GW US for months. Local shops and distributors couldn’t get it either. Gave up. Saturday it came back in stock on the GW US page. Unfortunately, I’ve given up hope of GW being able to support multiple fronts, and them going into 30K means less attention to AT. It would be a great tie n, especially if they did epic alongside it, but nope.
Got a game of ASOIAF and arena Rex in and have a game of Bushido scheduled. I love the universe, hate GWmanagement of the game.
I'm seeing a lot of terrain go on sale in the AT buy and sell groups, gw's giving people cold feet with the crappy communication. Hope it's not over, but I can see it looking that way if they can't support it.
Titanicus is going to remain very well supported. Looking at a lot of the art and trailer for 30k, titans were featured very heavily. Titanicus, of course, is also set in the age of 30k, where having huge maniples of titans still makes sense.
I think a new edition is on the horizon, and it's just a matter of time. GW's gotta spend a lot of time and effort getting the new 30k 2.0 off the ground. Then, I'm sure we'll see Titanicus make a comeback with some new starter sets and new plastic titans.
I strongly suspect GW plans to make a plastic Imperator class titan eventually and would not abandon the game before that happens, even if they are having annoying patches of little to no releases.
ph34r wrote: I strongly suspect GW plans to make a plastic Imperator class titan eventually and would not abandon the game before that happens, even if they are having annoying patches of little to no releases.
A plastic imperator would be what, almost forgeworld warhound size?
They could easily go back and remake all the models in Lucius pattern also and get some sales. They have room to play around, but they don’t have the time in production to slot in more models, especially with 30k starting up.
ph34r wrote: I strongly suspect GW plans to make a plastic Imperator class titan eventually and would not abandon the game before that happens, even if they are having annoying patches of little to no releases.
A plastic imperator would be what, almost forgeworld warhound size?
It would be around twice the height of the Warlord
ph34r wrote: I strongly suspect GW plans to make a plastic Imperator class titan eventually and would not abandon the game before that happens, even if they are having annoying patches of little to no releases.
A plastic imperator would be what, almost forgeworld warhound size?
It's hard to say because the old Epic was all over the place in terms of scale, thanks to practical limitations on model production at the time. I don't think any modern lore has confirmed the precise height of Imperators like it has for all the existing models.
There has been some modern artwork with Imperator titans, but these have an odd perspective making it hard to compare with other titans (see spoiler tags)
A Warmaster with a bunch of towers on top is probably fairly close, but there's nothing to stop GW going bigger than that.
Unpopular opinion: I hate how every rendition of an Imperator looks like the top of a normal titan was sheared off wholesale in a straight cut, then a level floor put on top of that and a castle on top of that. I'd want the battlements rising out of something that still looks like a titan carapace and not have the model bisected by a perfectly flat plane.
It's basically supposed to be a walking cathedral castle. The whole flat top with low walls, small turrets on the edges, towering spires and turrets in the middle and such plays into that theme and idea
Something that's been on my hobby wishlist for a while is to make a Kill Team board based on the top deck of an Imperator. Attacking troops fight Tech Guard Skitarii and try to damage titan, just like the old Titan Legions rules.
It would be even better if there's an proper Imperator model to run an AT game in parallel, and attackers as achieve objectives the titan suffers damage effects.
Most real castles are built into hilltops without shaving off the hilltop tho, they have courtyards with varying elevation levels, bottoms of walls conforming to the contour of the landscape and so on.
Theophony wrote: They could easily go back and remake all the models in Lucius pattern also and get some sales. They have room to play around, but they don’t have the time in production to slot in more models, especially with 30k starting up.
I'm surprised they didn't do this sort of thing in the first place. The ability to customize your titans with different decorations and armour pieces seems like something that would do well.
Theophony wrote: They could easily go back and remake all the models in Lucius pattern also and get some sales. They have room to play around, but they don’t have the time in production to slot in more models, especially with 30k starting up.
I'm surprised they didn't do this sort of thing in the first place. The ability to customize your titans with different decorations and armour pieces seems like something that would do well.
Lots of that is available to 3D print. Most people who customize their Titans either enjoy scratch building, print it themselves or order the 3D prints.
Having official Lucius models with rules will sell to those who want a bit of a different look. Still plenty of people who would buy official models instead of 3D prints.
Theophony wrote: They could easily go back and remake all the models in Lucius pattern also and get some sales. They have room to play around, but they don’t have the time in production to slot in more models, especially with 30k starting up.
I'm surprised they didn't do this sort of thing in the first place. The ability to customize your titans with different decorations and armour pieces seems like something that would do well.
Agreed but bit late, battlebling already eating their lunch there.
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Chopstick wrote: I'd prefer they use the budget for weapons rather than "titan skins"
Weapons would be more useful, but I think we've been sorta lucky too that we haven't been drowned in weapon releases, or worse yet, they go the route of like 0-1 special/relic weapons. The game definitely needs more weapons to round out the titan classes, but we saw with volkite, 2 or 3 felt like the person writing the rules doesn't play, 2 or 3 are objectively worse that vbr's for twice the price. Plasma on warhounds could stand to get more expensive.
Theophony wrote: They could easily go back and remake all the models in Lucius pattern also and get some sales. They have room to play around, but they don’t have the time in production to slot in more models, especially with 30k starting up.
I'm surprised they didn't do this sort of thing in the first place. The ability to customize your titans with different decorations and armour pieces seems like something that would do well.
Lots of that is available to 3D print. Most people who customize their Titans either enjoy scratch building, print it themselves or order the 3D prints.
Having official Lucius models with rules will sell to those who want a bit of a different look. Still plenty of people who would buy official models instead of 3D prints.
The trick/problem is gw isn't too good at making slight variation in unit stats. Like if we were to do it, the difference between a lucius and mars pattern from a stat/terminal perspective would likely be minimal, probbably only differences being prehaps high armour on the body/legs/head but a slower movement stat than normal and likely different base point cost. The problem is gw designers and design probably would work that way and the fear is they'd try something stilly like use the lucius pattern titans to introduce weapons locked into them or something. After the desing ethos of modularity took a jump off a cliff with the iconoclast/dire wolf I'm just not sure they'd have it in them to pull of lucius stuff without bungling it.
The problem with adding more weapons for the Imperial force is that, again, the more you bulk up their armoury the harder it becomes to then add an entirely new faction into the game. Which is why I keep hoping they start adding new factions sooner. That's where they budget should be going.
Spread the game wider, open it up to chaos corrupted titans and xenos.
The sooner they jump on that the sooner they can expand the games potential playerbase and interest because it moves away from mirror-match styles. It also means that they can keep expanding the Imperial side, just alongside other releases.
I do wonder if part of the issue is that the budget they've got for the game just isn't enough to justify two or more titans/models at once easily. So they "Can't" add chaos or xenos without making every release chaos/xenos and no more Imperial
Agreed but bit late, battlebling already eating their lunch there.
Spicy take time, but I think Battle Bling have a lot of missed potential right now. Some of their earlier stuff is really cool, and I have bought several items. However they've gradually crept away from making original items into mimicking existing GW designs that don't even sell at any significant discount.
For example you can buy near-identical copies of Reaver gatling, melta, and volcano cannons for £8.50 each while GW sell a sprue containing the same 3-4 weapons for £16. Many of the Warlord arm options copied from FW don't include the shoulder mount, so if you want to magnetise and swap weapons you need an extra part bringing it on par with FW's price.
What I'd love to see more of from Battle Bling are the cool visually distinct concepts like their classic warhound bodies, possessed titan heads, or scourge / flail weapon arms that first got me to buy from them. They could make a fortune from Lucius style or corrupted titan armour panels that GW don't make.
ph34r wrote: I strongly suspect GW plans to make a plastic Imperator class titan eventually and would not abandon the game before that happens, even if they are having annoying patches of little to no releases.
A plastic imperator would be what, almost forgeworld warhound size?
Mark Bedford once said at WarhammerFest that he expected it would be the size of the 40k Reaver, were they to make the Imperator
It would be around twice the height of the Warlord
I inks they are doing a fine job at walking the thin line. The models don’t need to be unique, they need to visually be different enough to make people buy them so they are different to everyone else’s models yet still close enough so nobody cries foul at a tournament.
I think they are holding off on a lot of the corrupted items until they see where the rules are leading. The slow pace of releases doesn’t help. I think they like many other 3D companies would flourish if EPIC would release and be a consistent scale.
A new titan is great to see, but it doesn't fit my normal play style. I'd like to see if modelers can do something with the pose to make it less static.
Shocked that this isn't priced above the £44 Asterius knight. It's tempting at about the same price as a reaver.
Going to hold off for now and wait to see:
1) How the legs are assembled and if it can be built with a more interesting pose
2) What the actual rules are, and if it can be put into squadrons etc
I actually like most of it except the ridges on the carapace but mostly I can’t stand the feet (the pose is boring as, too) because they look less stable than the basic ones.
I could see a potential higher cast failure rate on the Armigers, at least, being an issue that they'd factor into the price, given all the small fiddly bits that could break in casting.
The Dire Wolf generally looks sufficiently chunky to avoid that.
Can somebody please tell me what FW's logic is to pricing their models?
We can't really know without knowing all the numbers....the cost to produce each unit, the estimated demand, their desired margin, etc. Although pricing it based on size/how much resin is used may seem like the most intuitive approach to customers, that would be the worst way to do it.
I procured two of the neutron laser variety. Really not too worried whether they're auxiliary or not. I could field both alongside a Canis/Lupercal maniple combo and then even squadron them thanks to Audax being Au-some.
Can somebody please tell me what FW's logic is to pricing their models?
We can't really know without knowing all the numbers....the cost to produce each unit, the estimated demand, their desired margin, etc. Although pricing it based on size/how much resin is used may seem like the most intuitive approach to customers, that would be the worst way to do it.
I procured two of the neutron laser variety. Really not too worried whether they're auxiliary or not. I could field both alongside a Canis/Lupercal maniple combo and then even squadron them thanks to Audax being Au-some.
The more components, the more QA I guess, it's not even like they varied the pose between the two sets.
Again, it’s not just about production costs…demand, margin, sales goals, etc are all factors. My gut says that price point means they want to push a good number of these kits…that it’s not a smaller run aimed at whales and completists. But what that number would be and whether that’s even an accurate take are things only GW would know.
gorgon wrote: Again, it’s not just about production costs…demand, margin, sales goals, etc are all factors. My gut says that price point means they want to push a good number of these kits…that it’s not a smaller run aimed at whales and completists. But what that number would be and whether that’s even an accurate take are things only GW would know.
Regardless…I got mine!
Just a shame modularity goes out the door, for those that might want both weapon options or to future proof their titan only to be forced to buy both kind basically. I understand gw wanting to sell more not less titans, but part of that too is letting players if it can squadron and of course how many. As many have pointed on the various discord/fb groups they put out a really detailed reveal when the previewed it. The update from today was pretty bare bones.
I would highlight this is in contrast to the grimdark conversion kit for the plastic gw warhounds which has both options and i believe can be magnetized or press fit to swap out either. It gets to inherit the possibility of a warhound too which is great because without trying to be too hard on the forge world's desgin, it ain't the prettiest but worse, it looks like the legs are very static, everyone is hoping that's not true and the just got lazy in posting/building. We'll see soon enough at least the price isn't as high as feared.
It's also been updated with 2 more head options and the second weapon option up top, looks nice too very sniper-ish. One of the new heads has a minigun in it, which looks sick.
At least you won't be paying a fortune for those Direwolves. You've been waiting a long time for a new scout titan and finally have something to complement your Warhounds.
At least you won't be paying a fortune for those Direwolves. You've been waiting a long time for a new scout titan and finally have something to complement your Warhounds.
At least you won't be paying a fortune for those Direwolves. You've been waiting a long time for a new scout titan and finally have something to complement your Warhounds.
Oh yeah, it feels good.
How long do fw orders usually take to arrive? Everyone wants to cast their eyes on the terminal.
Interesting. It can be swapped in non-minimal maniples, clocks a bit over 250 points, has slightly better reactor and durability over a regular Hound while also getting a forward deployment rule. Pretty neat all things considered, given that it's also hard to have more than two of these on the table unless you're playing pure Warhound spam.
It's very clever pricing from FW for a change. Most people, including myself, don't have access to a 3D printer, so I buy complete printed kits from suppliers. Taking the Grimdark kit as an example, it's £15 for a complete printed kit. So two of those, plus the plastic Warhound kit comes to £70.
If I'm spending £70, then I'll buy the FW ones as they come with the terminals and cards.
Interesting. It can be swapped in non-minimal maniples, clocks a bit over 250 points, has slightly better reactor and durability over a regular Hound while also getting a forward deployment rule. Pretty neat all things considered, given that it's also hard to have more than two of these on the table unless you're playing pure Warhound spam.
I've done my best to stitch together the terminal from that review, it's a good review and well worth watching indeed, this might help more on the discussion side of things. I've also done a second one with a side by side of the warhound terminal to make it easy to compare.
Thank you, Crablezworth, for recreating the terminal.
Fortunate those dudes posted their review, thought we'd all have to wait a week.
So interesting things to note, better command than a warhound, more servitor clades as well. It has 1 more reactor pip, putting it in league with the reaver's reactor but with one important difference, where the reaver has 2 yellow, the dire wolf has 1 and 2 orange, so you gotta be real careful towards the end of the track. Also worth mentioning, unlike the warbringer nemesis, the dire wolf's carapace weapons are both 90 arc instead of corridor. It's body has a bit more armour, the leg armour starts at 1 point higher than the hound. The stalker rules is very interesting and one of my favorite aspects of its rules. Also worth noting, it's able to be both an aux titan and or put into a maniple. Not only that, it specifically says if it replaces a warhound or reaver, it counts as such for the purpose of the maniples special rules, so for example it can do what a reaver does in a venator maniple.
It would be great if FW made a 28mm dire wolf. It would also be nice if they started making more of the carapace weapons for the warlord and reaver in 28mm scale too. And maybe update the warhound VMB and Plasma blasting so they aren't "handed"
Dire Wolf rules are great for Audax. Stalker means I don’t even have to use the Canis maniple or Outflank to find interesting firing angles. And allowing it to replace a Reaver means we suddenly have more maniple options. Points cost is reasonable, and the improved reactor is fine. That with the extra clade and heat management options should make Draining manageable.
Edit: I also made jokes about the model looking better in Audax colors, but I wasn’t completely joking about that and I’m not surprised the unpainted version looks better.
Manchu wrote: AT terrain seems to be going OOP. Any rumors about whether this stuff will ever come back or be replaced?
I don't think it's gone forever, the kit is too integral to the other ones. It's also brilliant, in its tiered varying height option modular builds buz it actually is like perfect terrain for the game in terms of los if built to appropriate heights. It'd be a shame to lose that even if it isn't cheap.
Manchu wrote: AT terrain seems to be going OOP. Any rumors about whether this stuff will ever come back or be replaced?
No, GW is generally really weird with their terrain kits.
It's probably repackaging, it could be some boxes are less efficient than others, like in theory could potentially hold another sprue or something. Freight isn't just weight but dimensions so with costs going up across the board they may make a hybrid kit or simply re-box it in a way that makes more sense.
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Chopstick wrote: At least you didn't pay 55USD for bent armiger autocannons, and a pdf tell you to fix it yourself. QA does not include for the smallest kit possible.
Only upside to the small kits like armigers is even tho their msrp is the same as the dire wolf, I feel like you'd be more likely to get a whole new blister/set of armigers sent to address bent/broken or missing stuff than a whole new dire wolf, but that's possible too. Their QA really is bad on the armigers from what's been posted, especially all the same 2 right or 2 left sides legs.
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" and the "NEED MORE STUFF NOW!!!") are both, at a minimum, quite foolish if not just straight up hysterical.
of course the 6” tall isn’t much to brag about 
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