MajorWesJanson wrote: AT could really benefit from adding the Rapier scout and shifting more things to plastic- say a new weapons sprue for the warlord and reaver, combined with a chaos armor plate sprue for each. Belicosa and 2 miossing guns in plastic for a warbringer sprue. Upgrade sprue with some of the new Warhound weapons.
Epic would be disappointing, since it would mean the Titans are simplified down and pushed to the side rules wise.
Ideal result would be Epic and AT sharing models but remaining different games. Epic handles the big battles while Titanicus stays as a "skirmish" game focused on the Titans.
schoon wrote: Well, given AT's age and where they currently stand in the rules cycle, a new edition would not be the strangest suggestion I've heard.
Combine that with a new Titan class...
While I'd love to see Epic again, I think it's a long shot.
It might not even be a new class, it could also be the long-awaited chaosified Warlord - with enough separate chaos parts that's practically a new kit, even if some of the support structure remains the same.
I'm seeing both AT and AI being replaced with Epic, while they've already served the purpose of supporting last year's launch of The Horus Heresy.
It could be that Epic will have books for different conflicts across history, maybe starting with the Horus Heresy( Imperium, Titans, Knights, Marines ), then the Armageddon invasions( Chaos and Orks ) and others - introducing factions as they go. They don't have to do it all in one go and can save other factions for future editions should the game set the world alight.
schoon wrote: Well, given AT's age and where they currently stand in the rules cycle, a new edition would not be the strangest suggestion I've heard.
Combine that with a new Titan class...
While I'd love to see Epic again, I think it's a long shot.
It might not even be a new class, it could also be the long-awaited chaosified Warlord - with enough separate chaos parts that's practically a new kit, even if some of the support structure remains the same.
That might be a possibility, as far fetched as it might sound. I mean, Grimdark Terrain got contacted by GW to remove the Chaosified Warlord armour plating from their site...
Far as I know those aren't removed but being reworked. GW is likely well aware of GD and keeps an eye on the style of things they release. Even if GW isn't going to release Chaos Titans ever, they will still protect certain design elements of them from being infringed upon.
Sometimes it can be a particular shape of armour or a crest/icon on them that needs changing
Overread wrote: Far as I know those aren't removed but being reworked. GW is likely well aware of GD and keeps an eye on the style of things they release. Even if GW isn't going to release Chaos Titans ever, they will still protect certain design elements of them from being infringed upon.
Sometimes it can be a particular shape of armour or a crest/icon on them that needs changing
Maybe so, but it's rather specific, considering the amount of stuff from Battlebling they've tolerated. I might be looking a bit too much into it though.
Overread wrote: Far as I know those aren't removed but being reworked. GW is likely well aware of GD and keeps an eye on the style of things they release. Even if GW isn't going to release Chaos Titans ever, they will still protect certain design elements of them from being infringed upon.
Sometimes it can be a particular shape of armour or a crest/icon on them that needs changing
Maybe so, but it's rather specific, considering the amount of stuff from Battlebling they've tolerated. I might be looking a bit too much into it though.
Wasn't battlebling the only one with a commercial license to sell prints of those very same chaos warlord armour files?
Overread wrote: Far as I know those aren't removed but being reworked. GW is likely well aware of GD and keeps an eye on the style of things they release. Even if GW isn't going to release Chaos Titans ever, they will still protect certain design elements of them from being infringed upon.
Sometimes it can be a particular shape of armour or a crest/icon on them that needs changing
Maybe so, but it's rather specific, considering the amount of stuff from Battlebling they've tolerated. I might be looking a bit too much into it though.
Wasn't battlebling the only one with a commercial license to sell prints of those very same chaos warlord armour files?
Apparently Grimdark Terrain started doing it as well before they got contacted by GW. No clue if GW contacted Battlebling.
Overread wrote: Far as I know those aren't removed but being reworked. GW is likely well aware of GD and keeps an eye on the style of things they release. Even if GW isn't going to release Chaos Titans ever, they will still protect certain design elements of them from being infringed upon.
Sometimes it can be a particular shape of armour or a crest/icon on them that needs changing
Maybe so, but it's rather specific, considering the amount of stuff from Battlebling they've tolerated. I might be looking a bit too much into it though.
Wasn't battlebling the only one with a commercial license to sell prints of those very same chaos warlord armour files?
Apparently Grimdark Terrain started doing it as well before they got contacted by GW. No clue if GW contacted Battlebling.
Grimdark was just selling the stl's in his online store, battlebling was selling or going to sell prints I believe. Either way it's cute for GW to pretend to care now, the traitor books has been out forever.
The Warlord gun looks ace, for once an actually creative design, as far as vaguely gun-shaped death rays go. The other variants are your bog-standard C-beams, but then, any amount of support for AT is appreciated.
For once, the C-beam rules incentivise something different, ie. staying at a distance. That's good, currently almost all weapons sans missiles have done better at close ranges. I like that.
Whoever is writing it misspelled reaver and wrote "reiver". I really wish they'd just show us the damn weapons cards than having to read copy by someone who doesn't play. Nice to have new weapons but sadly it's forge world resin so 3d printing it is. Those weapons are simply too expensive for the QA and time sink. Nice to see something new I guess.
Crablezworth wrote: Whoever is writing it misspelled reaver and wrote "reiver". I really wish they'd just show us the damn weapons cards than having to read copy by someone who doesn't play. Nice to have new weapons but sadly it's forge world resin so 3d printing it is.
I appreciate this might be tricky for you to understand, but they want people to buy the weapons and get the information that way - not put the card out, and then have people not support the game by not buying the product.
I do hope the lead time between WHC preview of the weapons and release of the weapons isn't as long as it was last time - I don't think that did them any favours.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
SamusDrake wrote: Not seeing the point when it comes to Warhounds, as they run a very high risk of blowing themselves up with such weapons.
Depends on how much of a risk it actually ends up being, I guess - being able to use a high-move platform to get shots on larger targets while staying in range brackets that makes return fire less effective seems like it is worth a try, at the very least.
SamusDrake wrote: A proper melee weapon would make more sense, given their speed and animal design.
Given how comparatively squishy the platform is, I don't think I'd want to use melee options on Warhounds, but to each their own. What would you envisage as a melee option for them?
SamusDrake wrote: Not seeing the point when it comes to Warhounds, as they run a very high risk of blowing themselves up with such weapons.
A proper melee weapon would make more sense, given their speed and animal design.
Two points:
1) If the WH version can throw down some S11 or maybe even higher (the article makes it sound like only the WL version can be pushed though)...oh yeah, that's potentially something I'm going to try at some point or another. And note that I'm a very risk-averse Audax player.
2) A melee weapon would be useful capability, but it's probably not going to happen for the WH. I remain hopeful that it could an option on the Rapier, however.
Lord Borak wrote: Awesome stuff. I shall obviously be doing the responsible thing and buying 2 of each.
As for a combat weapon on a warhound, wasn't there a mention somewhere of a Rapier class titan? Which was Warhound sized but more combat based.
Smaller than a Warhound as far as we know. Likely sitting in the scale 5 slot if we ever get the model and rules. I don't think any content thus far has suggested the loadout, although people have speculated that the chassis may be the uncorrupted version of the old Slaaneshi Chaos engines. And at least one of those had melee weapons. But who really knows.
Dysartes wrote: I appreciate this might be tricky for you to understand, but they want people to buy the weapons and get the information that way - not put the card out, and then have people not support the game by not buying the product.
I do hope the lead time between WHC preview of the weapons and release of the weapons isn't as long as it was last time - I don't think that did them any favours.
They might want to do it that way, instead of putting the rules in the books they also sell. Doesn't mean we have to allow them to entertain that notion, though. And people will 3d print stuff if they so choose, regardless of how GW puts out the rules.
They decide how to release stuff. Then they get to live with the customers' response.
Depends on how much of a risk it actually ends up being, I guess - being able to use a high-move platform to get shots on larger targets while staying in range brackets that makes return fire less effective seems like it is worth a try, at the very least.
Given how comparatively squishy the platform is, I don't think I'd want to use melee options on Warhounds, but to each their own. What would you envisage as a melee option for them?
Damn, you're giving me mixed messages here; happy to blow up your hound but, too squishy for the glory of personal combat?
But seriously, at least one weapon that offers the melee trait to target individual parts. A nasty chain-fisty weapon will do nicely...
1) If the WH version can throw down some S11 or maybe even higher (the article makes it sound like only the WL version can be pushed though)...oh yeah, that's potentially something I'm going to try at some point or another. And note that I'm a very risk-averse Audax player.
2) A melee weapon would be useful capability, but it's probably not going to happen for the WH. I remain hopeful that it could an option on the Rapier, however.
You're just outright reckless!
Yeah, but I don't think the Rapier is coming now, and it's just these FW "core-titan" weapons only going forward. Best to just stick with Cerastus Lancers instead and not worry.
Smaller than a Warhound as far as we know. Likely sitting in the scale 5 slot if we ever get the model and rules. I don't think any content thus far has suggested the loadout, although people have speculated that the chassis may be the uncorrupted version of the old Slaaneshi Chaos engines. And at least one of those had melee weapons. But who really knows.
Time will tell I guess. Spangly new weapons are always good but having a new class of titan would be awesome, especially on the lighter scale (5-7).
The old Epic Subjugators? I was thinking the same thing but in the old fluff they were just Slaanesh titans I think. I can't remember if there was any mention of them being around before the heresy. However that's ancient cannon so it can always be updated. There's always a way!!
SamusDrake wrote: Yeah, but I don't think the Rapier is coming now, and it's just these FW "core-titan" weapons only going forward. Best to just stick with Cerastus Lancers instead and not worry.
It may be just wishful thinking, but I'm not convinced of that yet. Some people point to the Dire Wolf as a sign they're 'done' making plastic kits. But it's a very niche Titan that was probably conceived and designed to be a resin kit. Other SGs like Blood Bowl and NM have had some weird pauses. We'll see what happens.
Crablezworth wrote: Whoever is writing it misspelled reaver and wrote "reiver". I really wish they'd just show us the damn weapons cards than having to read copy by someone who doesn't play. Nice to have new weapons but sadly it's forge world resin so 3d printing it is.
I appreciate this might be tricky for you to understand, but they want people to buy the weapons and get the information that way - not put the card out, and then have people not support the game by not buying the product.
I appreciate this might be tricky for you to understand but the mollech book literally told players to scan and print the two new weapons cards in it, furthermore, the entire premise about withholding information about a product isn't an incentive to buy a $32 pound sterling weapon. Not happening
Automatically Appended Next Post:
xttz wrote: The original article was edited to hide this moulded base.
Converted design from a studio member or upcoming product? You decide!
Ya there's something to that me think, esp if they're going to go to the trouble of hiding it after the fact and still not fixing spelling mistakes.
At this point it would be nice if FW updated the weapon card packs to include all the new weapons.
On a different note, demanding easier or earlier access to the rules to use with proxies with no intent to support the actual product reeks of entitlement.
I appreciate this might be tricky for you to understand but the mollech book literally told players to scan and print the two new weapons cards in it, furthermore, the entire premise about withholding information about a product isn't an incentive to buy a $32 pound sterling weapon. Not happening
I appreciate this might be tricky for you to understand but the mollech book literally told players to scan and print the two new weapons cards in it, furthermore, the entire premise about withholding information about a product isn't an incentive to buy a $32 pound sterling weapon. Not happening
Wasn't that Shadow & Iron?
I think shadow and iron is the psi weapon cards but maybe they're all in there. Ah just checked you're right, it's the new hound weapon and psi titan weapon cards and they're both in shadow and iron. Page says and I quote "permission to download/print for personal use only".
Automatically Appended Next Post:
MajorWesJanson wrote: At this point it would be nice if FW updated the weapon card packs to include all the new weapons.
On a different note, demanding easier or earlier access to the rules to use with proxies with no intent to support the actual product reeks of entitlement.
The forge world weapons cards are currently the back of the blister. Your first point eats your second point, unless one is to imagine said forge world card pack somehow tied to buying all the forge world weapons along with it.
It's really not entitled to want to know the rules before making an informed purchase, or choosing not to.
Yeah, Shadow & Iron is decent for content and certainly one of the better books.
On the subject of the rules for the new weapons, to be fair they've only just announced them and I'm sure some kind soul will show them in a Youtube video during an unboxing. That said, the wait for the Dire Wolf was far too long.
Looks like they've been nice to Bryan Ansell - those two prototype Titans and the Tiger Eyes Warlord are from his personal collection from his time at GW I believe
I feel like the grav weapons were first previewed about 2 months (?) before their actual release. So yeah, it's possible.
I don't think Titandeath going OOP is a big deal, honestly. I didn't expect all the campaign books to stick around forever, especially now that the legio and maniple rules have been compiled (and updated in some cases) in the loyalist and traitor books.
I think the return of stratagem and Open War cards suggest a new phase and not an end. I can't see much reason for GW to do that at this point if they were planning to axe the product.
Pretty much campaigns, lore and Knight-House rules. Oh, and custom legions.
For anyone that didn't watch the video, it says that AT card packs are being reprinted too. There's four strategem card decks plus the open engine war one.
gorgon wrote: I think the return of stratagem and Open War cards suggest a new phase and not an end. I can't see much reason for GW to do that at this point if they were planning to axe the product.
I think you're probably right, but on the other hand everything in their operations that concerns cardboard products has just been extremely erratic in the last couple of years, and that seems not to be completely resolved now. Who knows what's happening behind the scenes there, it could conceivably be that they just got fulfillment on orders they placed a long time ago. Not super-likely, but as i said, cardboard is weird.
For anyone that didn't watch the video, it says that AT card packs are being reprinted too. There's four strategem card decks plus the open engine war one.
It's a fair cop, Gov. I gave up watching the videos because they usually just repeat whats in the articles, including the repetitive intro/outros.
I was a bit bummed out that the Knight cards were sold out back in 2019, so I'll be treating myself to those at least.
If I am only now buying into AT, which of these upcoming reprints should I grab? I've always been told the cards and cardboard being eternally out of print are the real barrier to entry. If I wanna future proof a collection, are the Open War cards, etc... worth grabbing even before I get models?
gorgon wrote: I think the return of stratagem and Open War cards suggest a new phase and not an end. I can't see much reason for GW to do that at this point if they were planning to axe the product.
I have to say, knowing about the card packs somewhat gives hope. Necromunda and Horus Heresy have been almost non-stop in their releases for almost the last year, so we might now be seeing the focus shift towards The Old World and Adeptus Titanicus.
Necromunda didn't enter a new edition last year, but it did enter a new phase. That might be the case for Adeptus Titanicus this year...
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote: If I am only now buying into AT, which of these upcoming reprints should I grab? I've always been told the cards and cardboard being eternally out of print are the real barrier to entry. If I wanna future proof a collection, are the Open War cards, etc... worth grabbing even before I get models?
While I'll personally be after the Knight pack( I have a Knight army ), the Open War pack is the most desired and sought after.
Otherwise, the current starter set is the best purchase you can make right now. Second purchase would be a Warbringer.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Racerguy180 wrote: They didn't say anything about control panels tho....kinda sad
lord_blackfang wrote: Books with zero new content aren't a good sign for the life of an edition, for those somehow wondering about this.
It means the opposite. Most GW specialist games have recieved one or more compendium books to collect out of print rules together. Necromunda, Warcry, Kill Team all had them available at some point, and none resulted in the end of that rule set. Someone feel free to correct me but I believe that the 2018 Necromunda compendium still contains gang rules that can be used now.
If anything this is a sign that something close to the current AT rules will continue in parallel to any future Epic release.
Yeah, I’m inclined to agree that this book implies continued support with the current rules set - especially considering that the card sets are getting reprinted, and the fact that all of the weapon card sets and command terminals are (once again) available for purchase. I don’t think GW would bother with the paper products if the game were soon to be put in the dumpster.
Of course, that doesn’t mean there will be any new stuff made for the game - just that GW is willing to keep it available for now.
I’m not holding my breath for AI card reprints, though.
It also makes sense to have a campaign compilation to go with the loyalist and traitor legio books. Far less to carry, and opportunities for the people who never got some or all of the original books.
lord_blackfang wrote: Books with zero new content aren't a good sign for the life of an edition, for those somehow wondering about this.
Tell that to Call of Cthulhu, they used the same book with different covers for 33 years
Seriously though, they might feel that the game is at a "completed" stage by now, by which I mean either the point where they wanted it to go, or the point where additional resources won't return sufficient revenues. If that's the case, it very well be a good idea to have an "evergreen" version of the game, that they can keep in their catalogue but not really invest into.
Nice to see them compiling (and hopefully cleaning up) the rest of the rules. Prevents those without some of the older books from being left out.
And having all the decks back in print is very welcome. Everyone (IMO) should take advantage of those.
Another version of the custom Legio rules is both nice and a pain. Nice because they could use some cleaning; a pain because my Legios will likely need to be reworked under the revised rules.
New book, new weapons and reprint of the cards...great!
The reprint of the Open Engine War cards surprises me a bit, don't they compete with the matched play guide? Thought the latter would be the new standard
The reprint of the Open Engine War cards surprises me a bit, don't they compete with the matched play guide? Thought the latter would be the new standard
New standard? Matched play is for the balanced competitive games, while the Open War cards are for the more diverse narrative games. Depends on what flavor of game you are looking for.
The reprint of the Open Engine War cards surprises me a bit, don't they compete with the matched play guide? Thought the latter would be the new standard
New standard? Matched play is for the balanced competitive games, while the Open War cards are for the more diverse narrative games. Depends on what flavor of game you are looking for.
Ya the open engine war cards if played according to instruction end up having a lot going on to keep track of, even with the cards in front of both players, matched play doesn't have the like planetary/weather effects.
Well, we play the open engine war cards without planetary and battlefield effects, so they are in direct competition with the matched play guide... let's see what we do. In general, I think it's better if both players have the same primary objective
Tell that to Call of Cthulhu, they used the same book with different covers for 33 years
To be fair, Chaosium, FASA etc... are experts at this. At least 7th Ed CoC has a few mechanical changes... LOL
Anyway, as I am the noobie here. Do the current weapon card decks include everything currently in game, or are there also Forgeworld options without cards, etc? I am just wondering how much of a necessity they are, and if I should just place a big order for every card and cardboard-dashboard?
habedekrai37 wrote: Well, we play the open engine war cards without planetary and battlefield effects, so they are in direct competition with the matched play guide... let's see what we do. In general, I think it's better if both players have the same primary objective
Completely agree on both players having the same primary objective. And the battlefield/planetary effects can be interesting but some of them are a real drag too. Not a fan of the matched play book's way of doing things too much either but at least with the re-release of stratagem cards the system will work a bit better hopefully.
Tell that to Call of Cthulhu, they used the same book with different covers for 33 years
To be fair, Chaosium, FASA etc... are experts at this. At least 7th Ed CoC has a few mechanical changes... LOL
Anyway, as I am the noobie here. Do the current weapon card decks include everything currently in game, or are there also Forgeworld options without cards, etc? I am just wondering how much of a necessity they are, and if I should just place a big order for every card and cardboard-dashboard?
The weapon card decks include a few of the initial fw made weapons but past that, forge world expects players to cut the cards out of a cardboard blister back. I would def get an initial pack of cards just because they're good to have and pretty necessary. You can obviously also just print them and cut them out, provided they're sized right. Also worth getting the thick card terminals, you interact with them so much it makes a big difference as they hold the plastic pips really well.
Another version of the custom Legio rules is both nice and a pain. Nice because they could use some cleaning; a pain because my Legios will likely need to be reworked under the revised rules.
Yes, I was pretty annoyed that the Warbringer was cut from the Engines of War trait when updated for Defence of Ryza. That said, I'd be very happy if the Warbringer is once again included, maybe any titan that isn't auxilary?
Eh, asymmetric objectives are great. Fighting for different purposes is personally far more interesting in a skirmish game over the eternal struggle for one thing, especially when those objectives intersect in ways that change the dynamics of the front lines in disruptive ways.
Sherrypie wrote: Eh, asymmetric objectives are great. Fighting for different purposes is personally far more interesting in a skirmish game over the eternal struggle for one thing, especially when those objectives intersect in ways that change the dynamics of the front lines in disruptive ways.
I'd disagree. We always placed an outhouse as the objective and the Generals were always in a pissing match to see who got to use it first. Always worked out for us. But people enjoy different things, so if you want one of your generals going for the outhouse while the opponent is going for the leftover pizza....have at it
Ultimately a lot of war is simply fighting for real estate and hoping not to have to pay for it twice. For all the possibilities of asymmetric missions/objectives, ultimately titans move and shoot and hopefully don't all get disabled or destroyed. I think for a more involved set of missions/assymetric set it'd be better in epic, where there's more unit types at play than just 2.
Also it seems like we won't be getting any weapon summaries in the new book sadly, and the loyalist/traitor books are missing some.
Crablezworth wrote: Ultimately a lot of war is simply fighting for real estate and hoping not to have to pay for it twice. For all the possibilities of asymmetric missions/objectives, ultimately titans move and shoot and hopefully don't all get disabled or destroyed. I think for a more involved set of missions/assymetric set it'd be better in epic, where there's more unit types at play than just 2.
Regarding gamedesign that's the exact opposite, really. To create a robust ruleset with lots of replayability, asymmetric objectives help even with small pools of units available. With a more extensive unit selection you can have a more standard, shared mission without hurting the variability in the game. There are good reasons why the Grand Tournament scenario has single-handedly dominated Epic tables for decades without feeling stale.
But it's not like it's an either or situation. Both ways are enjoyable every now and then.
Crablezworth wrote: Ultimately a lot of war is simply fighting for real estate and hoping not to have to pay for it twice. For all the possibilities of asymmetric missions/objectives, ultimately titans move and shoot and hopefully don't all get disabled or destroyed. I think for a more involved set of missions/assymetric set it'd be better in epic, where there's more unit types at play than just 2.
Regarding gamedesign that's the exact opposite, really. To create a robust ruleset with lots of replayability, asymmetric objectives help even with small pools of units available. With a more extensive unit selection you can have a more standard, shared mission without hurting the variability in the game. There are good reasons why the Grand Tournament scenario has single-handedly dominated Epic tables for decades without feeling stale.
But it's not like it's an either or situation. Both ways are enjoyable every now and then.
Epic has more than 2 units types though, AT isn't really combined arms.
Nomeny wrote: I'm still hoping they start releasing custom armour sets.
Someone did and got a letter from gw
It seems like based on the images released the only changes in the new compendium book will be to custom legios with their traits now becoming majoris and minoris, everything else just seems to be a consolidation of the other books.
From 2018 AT facebook group
"Adeptus Titanicus Campaign Compendium: the contents
Thanks to a pretty comprehensive shot of the index page in the Sunday preview video, we can see most of what's in the book, and I've compared that to the page counts in the five books it combines.
What's in the book:
Pg. 6 The Iron Crusade lore from Shadow and Iron
Pg. 20 The Battle of Molech lore from Doom of Molech
Pg. 30 The Cataclysm of Iron lore from Crucible of Retribution
Pg. 56 The Battle for Ryza lore from The Defence of Ryza
Pg. 78 The War for Beta-Garmon lore from Titandeath
Pg. 90 Narrative Missions from all five books
Pg. 146 Echoes of Glory from Crucible of Retribution
Pg. 162 Creating a Titan Legion from The Defence of Ryza (splits Legio Traits into Trait Majoris and Trait Minoris, so likely to be an update to these rules for better balance)
Pg. 172 The Household Marches from Doom of Molech, with Battle Standards from The Defence of Ryza added in, plus the 6 Knight Houses from Doom of Molech that aren't in any other book
Pg. 198 Adeptus Titanicus Campaigns from Shadow and Iron
Pg. 216 Hostile Battlefields from Titandeath
Pg. 218 Unknown, we're told the book is 224 pages, so likely to be 7 pages filled with images of models or battles
What's not in the book:
Any Titan Legio rules (these are in the Loyalist / Traitor Legio books)
Knight House rules for Houses that are in the Loyalist / Traitor Legio books, the 6 that are only in Doom of Molech are here though
Titan Maniple rules
Psi-Titan rules
Allegiance rules
Most of the Appendicies from the books (including weapon stats)
So it looks very much like there's no cross over at all with the Loyalist / Traitor Legio books."
Aren't they being released (or well going up for 'preorder') next Saturday though? That's when things release that are show in the sunday preview right?
Probably wasn't supposed to be announced last Sunday, and why they were only mentioned in the video and not the article itself - the later being easier to update.
This is also why I don't really love stratagems, especially the new way the matched book uses them with the like hand of cards thing. It's one thing to be asked to play magic cards while playing AT, it at least requires having the cards to really work though so if GW can't meet demand it's sorta falls on its face.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
schoon wrote: I was really hoping to get cards and the new book in one order. I think I'll hold until they're both available.
Ya the cards seem more useful game to game, if the compendium had more new content perhaps it'd be more of a must have. With the only new stuff being the changes to custom legios, base on goonhammer's review, they fixed some things like macro charges, but broke others, we've largely barred playing both corrupted and custom legios but the new compendium allows for it with a certain majoris trait. I do hope the cards are just delayed and it wasn't an accidental announcement. I'm sure plenty of people want the engine war cards because they're a good resource and get a lot of use compared to some of the books.
The compendium is more for new players than players who already have all the campaign books. Those are likely going to be phased out, since the legio rules have been compiled and even updated in the loyalist and traitor books. Now this one compiles the campaign stuff.
That's why I think it's an encouraging sign, because why even bother with a compilation book (which aren't high margin products for GW anyway) if the game was coming to some kind of end? Would be cheaper and easier to just let the campaign books run OOP and allow the game to go quietly into the night.
gorgon wrote: That's why I think it's an encouraging sign, because why even bother with a compilation book (which aren't high margin products for GW anyway) if the game was coming to some kind of end? .
It's an 85$ with tax book, it's not philanthropy. The new guard codex dropped like 5 seconds before the 10th ed announcement, GW is utterly shameless so I don't see it as a sign of anything other than consolidation of sku's on their end either way. I'll judge health of the game by if we lowly consumers ever see AT plastic again.
gorgon wrote: That's why I think it's an encouraging sign, because why even bother with a compilation book (which aren't high margin products for GW anyway) if the game was coming to some kind of end? .
While I'm sure they're making decent enough margin from these books, that only happens if GW manage to sell through the stock they order. They won't be ordering them piecemeal from printers, they're paying up front for a set print run of X copies.
With more focus on other GW games right now and many AT players owning a lot of the content in this compilation book already, this kind of product is a sign they're planning to keep AT rules available for the long term.
It's not even consistent with the knight asterius, where it's a blast weapon that goes from 3 inches to 5 inches at long range. Disappointed with the point costs on the warlord one unless I'm missing something. 2 S14 shots is cool and all but 60pts and a lot of potential heat. It's extra sad they couldn't make one for the warbringer carapace.
The 2018 AT group on facebook already purged a whole thread for some reason, I guess because the usual enforced universal praise of revery release was too hard to crack the whip on this time with so many people largely scratching their heads
Personally, I'm glad to see these aren't Blast weapons. My Audax have PBGs for that already...what they could use more are finishing weapons. And the Dissolutor is much better for that than TLDs, in my opinion. Sure, I'll sit back and roll the reactor dice for a chance to put a S11 hit into a damaged location. I'm not sure I've ever chosen to roll the dice for Shieldbane in comparison. Thumbs up from me.
Personally, I don't worry about paper cards because I sleeve my weapon cards anyway.
SamusDrake wrote: Its at this point a new FAQ is needed to either remove the Asterius' blast trait, or add it to these titan weapons.
Remove blast from both Acastus variants and adjust points a bit then they could roll back some of the limits on them as a result. Just make a v2 Acastus terminal card set.
SamusDrake wrote: Its at this point a new FAQ is needed to either remove the Asterius' blast trait, or add it to these titan weapons.
Remove blast from both Acastus variants and adjust points a bit then they could roll back some of the limits on them as a result. Just make a v2 Acastus terminal card set.
Ya they still sell the uncorrected acastus terminals in sets of 5 with all the wrong points and unit size. I have no problem paying for terminals and cards assuming they're up to date, they're really over due for a new weapons card set honestly. The backs of packaging/blisters just won't cut it.
It's also awkward given there are 2 rulesets of the asterius, the one on the thick terminals and the new ones you get from fw.
I'm guessing that if the Porphyrion terminal is to be updated and given a new print, then it will done in a phase where all the terminals and weapon cards are updated in one go.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Card packs coming next week...
I must say I'm pondering the purchase of the Castigator & Acheron box now that there's the possibility of Knights showing up in...whatever that Command Legions game is.
But will they release a Knight House bundle for that? Should I stay my hand thats reaching for my wallet...?
My conversion beamers for my Warhounds arrived. From the photos, I was concerned they'd be a little too beefy but they look good and balanced when paired with other weapons.
So it would seem all the strat cards are re-prints. None take into account any update their rules or strat point cost may have had in the traitor or loyalist books. That's not going to be very helpful if the rule aid one has to avoid having to look it up isn't consistent or current with what's in the books. It's one of the reasons the matched play book is a bit of waste, it introduces having a whole hand of strat cards but what good is going even heavier on strats if the actual cards are miss-match of current and older version? Le sigh.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
gorgon wrote: My conversion beamers for my Warhounds arrived. From the photos, I was concerned they'd be a little too beefy but they look good and balanced when paired with other weapons.
Post a pic
Finally the backs of the c beam cards have manifested, pretty rough to repair.
With Epic coming and the compilation books all released, I don't see AT getting any more support. It's not even an option on the "explore our games" tab on warhammer community. Blackstone Fortress and AI both have spots, but not AT.
Nah, if they wanted to let AT die, it would have been cheaper and less resource intensive to just let the campaign books go out of print. The compendium means they're interested in preserving that content for new players who don't already have the campaign books.
Only time will tell what level of support AT receives. But it seems silly to bury it when we don't really know what this new game even is for sure.
My one worry is that the potential of bringing Epic back is being done because the AT team felt they didn't have any more Imperial titans to add and thus invested into the infantry and troops and will continue to build it purely as a HH era game.
Because whilst Titans are eternal and never change pretty much; the tanks and vehicles on the ground do. Marines change too though even at 8mm that's a tiny visual change for the most part.
Locking everything in HH era is bad, IMO because it means more mirrormatches. No Chaos Warped stuff; no Orcs, Eldar, Tyranids or such.
Overread wrote: My one worry is that the potential of bringing Epic back is being done because the AT team felt they didn't have any more Imperial titans to add and thus invested into the infantry and troops and will continue to build it purely as a HH era game.
Which would be odd, given we know of at least 3 Imperial Titans (Rapier, Imperator, Warmonger(?)) and one class of Knight (Dominus) that could be argued to be missing as is.
Overread wrote: My one worry is that the potential of bringing Epic back is being done because the AT team felt they didn't have any more Imperial titans to add and thus invested into the infantry and troops and will continue to build it purely as a HH era game.
Which would be odd, given we know of at least 3 Imperial Titans (Rapier, Imperator, Warmonger(?)) and one class of Knight (Dominus) that could be argued to be missing as is.
Although the Rapier is already skirting the line between heavy Knight and supralight Titan pretty hard; the Imperator and Warmonger i'd have loved to see in a modernised incarnation, especially after they made up the Warmaster just for the game. I guess nothing prevents them from still doing them in the future, with a double-use for the purported Epic:HH game and AT...
Eldar and Orks titans would have been great for AT as well, but at that point the game would probably have needed a second edition to compile things anyway.
Overread wrote: My one worry is that the potential of bringing Epic back is being done because the AT team felt they didn't have any more Imperial titans to add and thus invested into the infantry and troops and will continue to build it purely as a HH era game.
Which would be odd, given we know of at least 3 Imperial Titans (Rapier, Imperator, Warmonger(?)) and one class of Knight (Dominus) that could be argued to be missing as is.
Yeah, the studio said years ago that there would be 'tweener Titans around the main three chassis. Then we got two of the four. Plans can certainly change, but I don't think it's an ideas issue.
Regarding Orks and Eldar, one way this could go is for the cycle to repeat itself and have those Titans be added to AT before eventually becoming options in a larger, non-monofaction Epic game. But obviously there are many ways things can go. I would *hope* that they'd at least give the customers the slightest hint of the road map for their smaller scale games when the new game is released. gak, you know they're going to get barraged with 'xenos when?' comments with the new game probably to a greater degree than AT was.
But obviously there are many ways things can go. I would *hope* that they'd at least give the customers the slightest hint of the road map for their smaller scale games when the new game is released. gak, you know they're going to get barraged with 'xenos when?' comments with the new game probably to a greater degree than AT was.
I'm pretty bummed out by there apparently not being a ForgeWorld/Specialist Games Open Day this year, usually that's in June or early July, and should have been announced by now if it was to happen. I'd like at least a roadmap for Necromunda (and BloodBowl deserves one as well) for my peace of mind, but there's no hint of any of that right now.
Overread wrote: My one worry is that the potential of bringing Epic back is being done because the AT team felt they didn't have any more Imperial titans to add and thus invested into the infantry and troops and will continue to build it purely as a HH era game.
Which would be odd, given we know of at least 3 Imperial Titans (Rapier, Imperator, Warmonger(?)) and one class of Knight (Dominus) that could be argued to be missing as is.
Although the Rapier is already skirting the line between heavy Knight and supralight Titan pretty hard; the Imperator and Warmonger i'd have loved to see in a modernised incarnation, especially after they made up the Warmaster just for the game. I guess nothing prevents them from still doing them in the future, with a double-use for the purported Epic:HH game and AT...
Eldar and Orks titans would have been great for AT as well, but at that point the game would probably have needed a second edition to compile things anyway.
There's also various STLs about the place for non-fallen Questor and Subjugator titans, which could both be variant Rapiers.
Although the Rapier is already skirting the line between heavy Knight and supralight Titan pretty hard; the Imperator and Warmonger i'd have loved to see in a modernised incarnation, especially after they made up the Warmaster just for the game. I guess nothing prevents them from still doing them in the future, with a double-use for the purported Epic:HH game and AT...
Both the Rapier and Imperator are units that make more sense to develop for Epic rather than AT. Any weapons on the former are going to be little threat to targets bigger than knights, and more likely suited to clearing tanks & infantry. Meanwhile the big guy not only works against all kinds of targets (including anti-air), but was designed around being a mobile fortress with a transport capacity. Among other things, an Imperator wants to be carrying a bunch of marines or skitarii forward while mowing down enemy infantry with a billion heavy bolters.
While they certainly wouldn't be useless in AT, it would it certainly be easier to sell the models if there is a more suitable game system to use them in.
I would rather they made plastic small titans like Dire Wolves and Rapiers than spend sprue time on things like imperators. I feel like half the reason they haven’t done much lately is they used the entire allocation of sprue space for the year on the Warmaster and were somehow surprised that a Titan no-one asked for, nor had even heard of before, and is at best a one-or-two-per-customer centrepiece, didn’t sell in volumes to match the Warlord.
If they had used those same three or four full frames of space on three or four sets of, say, two dire wolves, two rapiers, the missing Warbringer weapons, and, say, some plastic weapon options on “character” mini-sprues, I’m pretty sure they would have sold vastly better.
Both the Rapier and Imperator are units that make more sense to develop for Epic rather than AT. Any weapons on the former are going to be little threat to targets bigger than knights, and more likely suited to clearing tanks & infantry. Meanwhile the big guy not only works against all kinds of targets (including anti-air), but was designed around being a mobile fortress with a transport capacity. Among other things, an Imperator wants to be carrying a bunch of marines or skitarii forward while mowing down enemy infantry with a billion heavy bolters.
While they certainly wouldn't be useless in AT, it would it certainly be easier to sell the models if there is a more suitable game system to use them in.
The strongest unit point for point in AT is a knight, it outshoots most warlords. There's no reason to assume a rapier's terminals aren't just a hound terminal with worse armour and a higher movement stat. Weaponwise if a warhound can have one of the strongest weapons in the game I see no reason for a rapier to have weak weapon options.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Mr_Rose wrote: I would rather they made plastic small titans like Dire Wolves and Rapiers than spend sprue time on things like imperators. I feel like half the reason they haven’t done much lately is they used the entire allocation of sprue space for the year on the Warmaster and were somehow surprised that a Titan no-one asked for, nor had even heard of before, and is at best a one-or-two-per-customer centrepiece, didn’t sell in volumes to match the Warlord.
If they had used those same three or four full frames of space on three or four sets of, say, two dire wolves, two rapiers, the missing Warbringer weapons, and, say, some plastic weapon options on “character” mini-sprues, I’m pretty sure they would have sold vastly better.
Agreed 100%, we not only got a titan no one asked for, but they literally gaslit us and pretended it's an entirely new titan and you totally need two 1200pt 200 dollar titans thought gw arrogantly as always. Would be much happier with more plastic titans, weapons, new cards for said weapons and terminals, and will pay for those. Crappy fw resin? Printer go brrrr.
I think one problem with constantly expanding the AT range of models if they are also seriously considering Epic is that they end up with such a huge range of titans that;
1) Any non-imperial army has a massive backlog of creative work to catch up with.
2) It's hard to make Epic work if the Titans can already fill pretty much every single battle role on the table.
Overread wrote: I think one problem with constantly expanding the AT range of models if they are also seriously considering Epic is that they end up with such a huge range of titans that
2) It's hard to make Epic work if the Titans can already fill pretty much every single battle role on the table.
Fluffwise that is why Beta Garmon happened. Not only to bleed Horus, but to get rid of a lot of titans so they wouldn't wreck Terra.
Mechanically, this problem is why titans tend to lose their flavor and options when moved from their game to epic, to nerf them so other units can shine
Mr_Rose wrote: I would rather they made plastic small titans like Dire Wolves and Rapiers than spend sprue time on things like imperators. I feel like half the reason they haven’t done much lately is they used the entire allocation of sprue space for the year on the Warmaster and were somehow surprised that a Titan no-one asked for, nor had even heard of before, and is at best a one-or-two-per-customer centrepiece, didn’t sell in volumes to match the Warlord.
If they had used those same three or four full frames of space on three or four sets of, say, two dire wolves, two rapiers, the missing Warbringer weapons, and, say, some plastic weapon options on “character” mini-sprues, I’m pretty sure they would have sold vastly better.
I agree with you, but I'm biased with the smaller Titans.
And I don't think the first Warmaster release was an issue. Seemed to be positively received and sell well enough. The mistake IMO was double-dipping with the Iconoclast, what, six months later? No wonder some of those kits collected dust. And it probably compounded the problem by using up too much of the game's plastic allocation like you said. That was a real misstep from the GW marketing team IMO.
...and then you complain the game isn't seeing much support - strange, that.
Yeah I wonder what the sentance before that said? " Would be much happier with more plastic titans, weapons, new cards for said weapons and terminals, and will pay for those." So if only i purchased stuff I don't want I'd be a good supporter? That's real rich fren. Real rich. I got an event I'm running next week and we've managed to attract about 4 people, if only I had purchased more forgeworld products, I did this to myself, really
Mr_Rose wrote: I would rather they made plastic small titans like Dire Wolves and Rapiers than spend sprue time on things like imperators. I feel like half the reason they haven’t done much lately is they used the entire allocation of sprue space for the year on the Warmaster and were somehow surprised that a Titan no-one asked for, nor had even heard of before, and is at best a one-or-two-per-customer centrepiece, didn’t sell in volumes to match the Warlord.
If they had used those same three or four full frames of space on three or four sets of, say, two dire wolves, two rapiers, the missing Warbringer weapons, and, say, some plastic weapon options on “character” mini-sprues, I’m pretty sure they would have sold vastly better.
I agree with you, but I'm biased with the smaller Titans.
And I don't think the first Warmaster release was an issue. Seemed to be positively received and sell well enough. The mistake IMO was double-dipping with the Iconoclast, what, six months later? No wonder some of those kits collected dust. And it probably compounded the problem by using up too much of the game's plastic allocation like you said. That was a real misstep from the GW marketing team IMO.
We also had the amen chorus for gw back then insisting furiously that the iconoclast sprue would be released separately like the warlord weapons srpues. And here we are some time later and nothin. Totally agree its absurd to expect anyone to buy an entire second warmaster to get a couple weapons and a head swap. GW has basically gone back on the whole modular thing, a lot of regression, a damn shame.
Overread wrote: I think one problem with constantly expanding the AT range of models if they are also seriously considering Epic is that they end up with such a huge range of titans that
2) It's hard to make Epic work if the Titans can already fill pretty much every single battle role on the table.
Fluffwise that is why Beta Garmon happened. Not only to bleed Horus, but to get rid of a lot of titans so they wouldn't wreck Terra.
Mechanically, this problem is why titans tend to lose their flavor and options when moved from their game to epic, to nerf them so other units can shine
That's the other issue too with hoping the game expand into orks/eldar stuff, it can barely handle just titan's and knights.
And I don't think the first Warmaster release was an issue. Seemed to be positively received and sell well enough. The mistake IMO was double-dipping with the Iconoclast, what, six months later? No wonder some of those kits collected dust. And it probably compounded the problem by using up too much of the game's plastic allocation like you said. That was a real misstep from the GW marketing team IMO.
Fully agree with that assessment. From what I remember there was a lot of interest in the plasma Warmaster, which beat GW's forecasts and quickly sold out on release. However that trend completely reversed with the Iconoclast. Later I saw multiple retailers trying to offload that stock during black Friday events with discounts as low as 50%
I expect sooner or later there will be a consolidation to a single Warmaster box with both weapon sprues, like they did with the 40k Knight kits.
Fluffwise that is why Beta Garmon happened. Not only to bleed Horus, but to get rid of a lot of titans so they wouldn't wreck Terra.
Mechanically, this problem is why titans tend to lose their flavor and options when moved from their game to epic, to nerf them so other units can shine
Yep, even 1st edition limited titan options to a 1/3 of the points due to how they dominated...
Crablezworth wrote: We also had the amen chorus for gw back then insisting furiously that the iconoclast sprue would be released separately like the warlord weapons srpues. And here we are some time later and nothin. Totally agree its absurd to expect anyone to buy an entire second warmaster to get a couple weapons and a head swap. GW has basically gone back on the whole modular thing, a lot of regression, a damn shame.
I know you're stuck on the modularity thing, but I'm pretty confident that the point of the release wasn't to make people buy a second kit to get different weapons. They thought people would want and would buy a second kit to have a second Warmaster. They were probably confident since the Warmaster sold well, and people had no issues buying multiple Warlords. But a second Warmaster just isn't a very useful miniature for the actual game. What's more, it followed too soon after the first kit.
Could it have been a more interesting release alongside some resin corrupted Warmaster bit options from FW? Something to distinguish it more, maybe? I dunno. IIRC, they released the Iconoclast alongside the Traitor book, but I really wonder if the reception would have been better had they just waited a full year. They just really did not have their finger on the pulse of their customers with that release. A Rapier or unnamed scale 7 Titan kit in place of the Iconoclast probably would have been a more interesting release and more interesting for the game.
Crablezworth wrote: We also had the amen chorus for gw back then insisting furiously that the iconoclast sprue would be released separately like the warlord weapons srpues. And here we are some time later and nothin. Totally agree its absurd to expect anyone to buy an entire second warmaster to get a couple weapons and a head swap. GW has basically gone back on the whole modular thing, a lot of regression, a damn shame.
I know you're stuck on the modularity thing,
Yes, the modularity "thing" that was a core feature of the game system and primary benefit of said aforementioned game system so much so that even the terminals are modular to account for said core feature, that one, yes. The one they've deviated from entirely to sell over priced resin with no options.
My main beef with the game is the strangling of options to build a varied force in a game of so little elements. Even resigning myself to a titan force with knight support, and vice versa, they then restricted it even further to the point where one might as well just go for an all titan, or all knight force. Its now only worth playing titans vs titans, or Knights vs Knights, and so we're at the point of two separate games anyway...
Personally, I feel that Adeptus Titanicus should go to a new edition and gut the Knights from the game completely. Instead, let them shine in Epic.
Yes, the modularity "thing" that was a core feature of the game system and primary benefit of said aforementioned game system so much so that even the terminals are modular to account for said core feature, that one, yes. The one they've deviated from entirely to sell over priced resin with no options.
Agreed.
Afterall, players were screaming murder when they announced the Sunfury titan but no individual weapon sprue for their expensive Warlord titans. This being a much larger and thus more expensive plastic titan, I'm surprised the outrage wasn't greater.
...and then you complain the game isn't seeing much support - strange, that.
Yeah I wonder what the sentance before that said? " Would be much happier with more plastic titans, weapons, new cards for said weapons and terminals, and will pay for those." So if only i purchased stuff I don't want I'd be a good supporter? That's real rich fren. Real rich. I got an event I'm running next week and we've managed to attract about 4 people, if only I had purchased more forgeworld products, I did this to myself, really
If you're not going to buy the thing, but you're going to take rules cards off the 'net and either scratchbuild (see: Dire Wolf) or 3D print parts (as you're talking about here) because you're throwing a hissy fit about the material they're being released in, you're not supporting the game - you're acting like you're entitled to the content, at best, or like a parasite, at worst.
If you were doing this out of some mistaken thought of principles, you wouldn't leech off the game as you do.
I just wished they hadn't set it during the Horus Heresy. Locks out every single Xenos faction. Would've been cool to say, have campaign books set in each millennium, possibly including the Heresy but with a broader scope, so that say we have one set during the War of the Beast, one set during some other IOM conflict, one focusing on say the Eldar vs a Necron Force and things of that nature. They have 10k years to work with but focus on the "present day of 40K" and the Heresy nearly to the exclusion of the rest of the entire 10k years of history. Would be awesome to see properly Chaos Titans, Titan sized Daemon Engines, Ork Gargants, Eldar Titans, Tyranid Bio-Titans if we want to touch the more modern period. They could even introduce some Necron titan sized constructs and vehicles and make the Galaxy feel much larger.
panzerfront14 wrote: I just wished they hadn't set it during the Horus Heresy. Locks out every single Xenos faction. Would've been cool to say, have campaign books set in each millennium, possibly including the Heresy but with a broader scope, so that say we have one set during the War of the Beast, one set during some other IOM conflict, one focusing on say the Eldar vs a Necron Force and things of that nature. They have 10k years to work with but focus on the "present day of 40K" and the Heresy nearly to the exclusion of the rest of the entire 10k years of history. Would be awesome to see properly Chaos Titans, Titan sized Daemon Engines, Ork Gargants, Eldar Titans, Tyranid Bio-Titans if we want to touch the more modern period. They could even introduce some Necron titan sized constructs and vehicles and make the Galaxy feel much larger.
It does not lock out the Eldar - the original AT had Eldar Titans fighting against Horus - not with the Imperium but against Horus - they made that distintiction very clear -so you could have them.
panzerfront14 wrote: I just wished they hadn't set it during the Horus Heresy. Locks out every single Xenos faction. Would've been cool to say, have campaign books set in each millennium, possibly including the Heresy but with a broader scope, so that say we have one set during the War of the Beast, one set during some other IOM conflict, one focusing on say the Eldar vs a Necron Force and things of that nature. They have 10k years to work with but focus on the "present day of 40K" and the Heresy nearly to the exclusion of the rest of the entire 10k years of history. Would be awesome to see properly Chaos Titans, Titan sized Daemon Engines, Ork Gargants, Eldar Titans, Tyranid Bio-Titans if we want to touch the more modern period. They could even introduce some Necron titan sized constructs and vehicles and make the Galaxy feel much larger.
It does not lock out the Eldar - the original AT had Eldar Titans fighting against Horus - not with the Imperium but against Horus - they made that distintiction very clear -so you could have them.
Neither does it exclude Orks, or Squats for that matter; Necron titans are not easy to write in, but it could be done if they're Canoptek constructs instead of 'true' Necrons. The only two Xenos races that are hard out are Tyranids and Tau, because they definitely did not exist in the galaxy at that point.
Mr_Rose wrote: Also the T’au don’t have titans anyway, their walkers capping out at “large knight” sized.
The largest suit from Forgeworld is about as large as a Warhound and has comparable firepower, but more mobility, i'd put that in the same category as e.g. the smaller Eldar titan. It's not inconceivable to do a larger suit than that, at battle titan level ~ Reaver class.
Like the biggest knights, it certainly could have titan-level rules if you wanted to, the distinction is a bit arbitrary at the moment.
Necrons already have a knight construct and would certainly have bigger Titans or even C'Tan shards (just like Greater demons used to be for Chaos).
Tau don't have Titans because, TL hasn't existed for them so GW never developed them. They would easily get them as and when a sitaution arose that they'd need them
It's the same as how Tyranids only had 3 Titans. The only reason they had 3 was because they appeared and then Epic 40K died about a month or two later. Had it lasted longer Tyranids would have gained way more; just like Imperials and Orks and Chaos and Eldar and such.
Even Dark Eldar would get Titans if the game were out long enough.
Heck even Genestealer Cults would get them; they'd just be repurposed mining machines (huge bucket close combat titan!) and such.
Overread wrote: Necrons already have a knight construct and would certainly have bigger Titans or even C'Tan shards (just like Greater demons used to be for Chaos).
Tau don't have Titans because, TL hasn't existed for them so GW never developed them. They would easily get them as and when a sitaution arose that they'd need them
It's the same as how Tyranids only had 3 Titans. The only reason they had 3 was because they appeared and then Epic 40K died about a month or two later. Had it lasted longer Tyranids would have gained way more; just like Imperials and Orks and Chaos and Eldar and such.
Even Dark Eldar would get Titans if the game were out long enough.
Heck even Genestealer Cults would get them; they'd just be repurposed mining machines (huge bucket close combat titan!) and such.
Yeah, that sort of thing is exactly why i'd love to see Epic return - almost everything bigger than a Land Raider saw the light of day in Epic first, a lot of classic vehicles and beloved concepts come from that game, but unfortunately that means that the 'latecomers' you mentioned got little to no designs from it, and what Forgeworld could deliver straight at 40k scale is necessarily only a fraction of what could have been possible at Epic scale. Things like mining-machine titan-equivalents, towering Tyranid monstrosities, more exotic Eldar titans and cool T'au mechs are all splendid opportunities, and they should have a go at them.
Even in a game that would be -for the time being- limited to the HH, there is so much they could explore: Stormbirds, the larger Mechanicus contraptions, knight-size battle automata, Ordinatus, cool aircraft, superheavy artillery and much, much more. Outside of video games, Epic is just about the best way to explore the mindboggling scale of 40k and 30k battles, and it should absolutely return.
Tau shouldn't get Titans. They have already gone far enough in 5he suit heavy direction, they need to veer back and focus on aircraft and tanks/heavy tanks.
455_PWR wrote: Are the card packs all reprints, or are they updated? Looks like I own them all already, not sure if I should get a set of these or not.
They are reprints, and contain neither FAQ nor other updates.
...and then you complain the game isn't seeing much support - strange, that.
Yeah I wonder what the sentance before that said? " Would be much happier with more plastic titans, weapons, new cards for said weapons and terminals, and will pay for those." So if only i purchased stuff I don't want I'd be a good supporter? That's real rich fren. Real rich. I got an event I'm running next week and we've managed to attract about 4 people, if only I had purchased more forgeworld products, I did this to myself, really
If you're not going to buy the thing, but you're going to take rules cards off the 'net and either scratchbuild (see: Dire Wolf) or 3D print parts (as you're talking about here) because you're throwing a hissy fit about the material they're being released in, you're not supporting the game - you're acting like you're entitled to the content, at best, or like a parasite, at worst.
If you were doing this out of some mistaken thought of principles, you wouldn't leech off the game as you do.
Perhaps you could inform me of all of your contributions to titanicus fren. That is if you can find the time. Here's 18 pages worth of mine: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/787202.page trigger warning there's non-gw third party models in there, just didn't want you to have a panic attack fren.
Spoiler:
Just me leechin' I guess.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
455_PWR wrote: Are the card packs all reprints, or are they updated? Looks like I own them all already, not sure if I should get a set of these or not.
If you already have all of them probably not. I have to be careful though, dysartes is watching, they might not think I'm good consumer for suggesting you don't literally need to own everything gw puts out.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
panzerfront14 wrote: I just wished they hadn't set it during the Horus Heresy. Locks out every single Xenos faction. Would've been cool to say, have campaign books set in each millennium, possibly including the Heresy but with a broader scope, so that say we have one set during the War of the Beast, one set during some other IOM conflict, one focusing on say the Eldar vs a Necron Force and things of that nature. They have 10k years to work with but focus on the "present day of 40K" and the Heresy nearly to the exclusion of the rest of the entire 10k years of history. Would be awesome to see properly Chaos Titans, Titan sized Daemon Engines, Ork Gargants, Eldar Titans, Tyranid Bio-Titans if we want to touch the more modern period. They could even introduce some Necron titan sized constructs and vehicles and make the Galaxy feel much larger.
They can't even properly support the titans and knights they have now though.
So...if I already own the Titandeath, Doom of Molech, Shadow and Iron, The Defence of Ryza, and Crucible of Retribution supplements, is there anything in the upcoming "Campaign Compendium" that makes it worth buying?
Alpharius wrote: So...if I already own the Titandeath, Doom of Molech, Shadow and Iron, The Defence of Ryza, and Crucible of Retribution supplements, is there anything in the upcoming "Campaign Compendium" that makes it worth buying?
AFAIK no, it just collects these supplements in one volume.
Alpharius wrote: So...if I already own the Titandeath, Doom of Molech, Shadow and Iron, The Defence of Ryza, and Crucible of Retribution supplements, is there anything in the upcoming "Campaign Compendium" that makes it worth buying?
The only thing "new" us an update to the custom legio rules from the ryza book.
The only thing "new" us an update to the custom legio rules from the ryza book.
Anything notable they've updated in that regard? I've already got Defence of Ryza and the previous White Dwarf version of the crusade rules, and not spending out a third time.
Let me guess, Engines of War is now restricted to swapping in only Warlord titans?
The only thing "new" us an update to the custom legio rules from the ryza book.
Anything notable they've updated in that regard? I've already got Defence of Ryza and the previous White Dwarf version of the crusade rules, and not spending out a third time.
Let me guess, Engines of War is now restricted to swapping in only Warlord titans?
Goonhammer has a decent review but basically they changed traits into majoris and minoris, but the ones they designated as either is a bit baffling, like the made master of defense minoris but like loci of cause majoris and they're not even on the same planet in terms of power level. They also made it so a specific traitor trait allows you to use corrupted titan rules as well, which is a terrible idea, even though I acknowledge nothing was preventing any traitor player from playing both a custom legio and using corrupted titans beforehand, so I guess it limits it, I would have just thought one or the other for sanity's sake. There are some good chanfes, macro charges lost the +1S, which is probably fair.
MajorWesJanson wrote: Tau shouldn't get Titans. They have already gone far enough in 5he suit heavy direction, they need to veer back and focus on aircraft and tanks/heavy tanks.
Tau should get huge weaponary, but I agree that they could veer in another direction - super heavy fliers that move at cruising speed; super heavy tanks and such. Again all things that Epic or even just AT can do that 40K just can nevre really do justice to properly (unless you've a small fortune; a lot of time and a small sports pitch sized table and mob of friends to play)
Yes, the modularity "thing" that was a core feature of the game system and primary benefit of said aforementioned game system so much so that even the terminals are modular to account for said core feature, that one, yes. The one they've deviated from entirely to sell over priced resin with no options.
Agreed.
Afterall, players were screaming murder when they announced the Sunfury titan but no individual weapon sprue for their expensive Warlord titans. This being a much larger and thus more expensive plastic titan, I'm surprised the outrage wasn't greater.
Right, it was the screaming that made them do it in the first place. The marketing plan wasn't to sell sprues instead of kits. They wanted people to buy whole kits, a plan they ended up returning to with the Warmaster. Which bombed BUT also didn't generate 'outrage' because too many players weren't that interested in that chassis beyond collecting one. Totally different dynamics than with the Warlord, which is far more commonly fielded in the game, can be fielded in multiples, etc.
Right, it was the screaming that made them do it in the first place. The marketing plan wasn't to sell sprues instead of kits. They wanted people to buy whole kits, a plan they ended up returning to with the Warmaster. Which bombed BUT also didn't generate 'outrage' because too many players weren't that interested in that chassis beyond collecting one. Totally different dynamics than with the Warlord, which is far more commonly fielded in the game, can be fielded in multiples, etc.
An unexpected increase in plastic production would at least explain the lateness of many kits going forward at that time. Doom of Molech was painfully unsupported and the Warbringer felt late to the party. Then of course Covid hit and turned the world upside down...
Haven't seen this mentioned elsewhere, but apologies if it has.
The graviton and conversion weapons for AT have SKUs with product range 26 rather than 03 which the rest of the AT range uses.
In my mind it would be an odd choice to do that unless GW are planning to have the Epic and AT ranges continue as separate ranges with future releases for both.
Speaking of the FW weapons, are their stats described anywhere, or is it literally a surprise when you buy the arms, and get the included card? The wisdom of trying to sell me pricey bits with mystery stats feels... weird.
I'm hoping the sprue comes with 2 of each, and that it heralds a new batch of plastic sprues for other titans, especially the warbringer which never gets to play in the fw reindeer games
MajorWesJanson wrote: Looks like it is to give it an offset so it can rotate without running into the hull.
Probably this. The oldschool look where it was just a cylinder stuck to the shoulder joint also looks impossible to aim without rotating the whole torso.
MajorWesJanson wrote: Looks like it is to give it an offset so it can rotate without running into the hull.
I guess, I might just stick with the ones I've designed myself:
You holding out on me bro
Automatically Appended Next Post:
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote: Speaking of the FW weapons, are their stats described anywhere, or is it literally a surprise when you buy the arms, and get the included card? The wisdom of trying to sell me pricey bits with mystery stats feels... weird.
Ya it's really dumb, worse still you don't even get a card, you get the opportunity to cut one out of cardboard backing of the weapon's plastic blister. Premium product
Automatically Appended Next Post:
ImAGeek wrote: I hope the sprue is available separately before too long - I have 4 Warhounds I’m yet to build!
The increased scale combined with resin titans seems to be prohibitive to many possible customers.
I think the choice of material used for the main forces could well make or break the game.
What was the reason given for not making them in 6mm ?
I cannot seem to remember..
The Titans for AT?
When I spoke with the sculptor when it was first shown at Warhammerfest, they explained the original didn’t really have a scale and the wanted to change that.
First considering “what’s the smallest we could do infantry in”.
Speculation time (possibly copium!), but given that:
a) It has been out of stock for a while
b) GW will want to standardise 'Epic scale' branding on related boxes
c) The new base sizes
d) The new Epic core box includes Warhounds now
...we may well see a revamped Titanicus starter box too.
GW could use the chance to throw together an alternate bundle of titans and knights which builds well into an Epic army, but also works independently.
xttz wrote: Speculation time (possibly copium!), but given that:
a) It has been out of stock for a while
b) GW will want to standardise 'Epic scale' branding on related boxes
c) The new base sizes
d) The new Epic core box includes Warhounds now
...we may well see a revamped Titanicus starter box too.
GW could use the chance to throw together an alternate bundle of titans and knights which builds well into an Epic army, but also works independently.
I have a feeling the Titans will be consolidated into a single box. So a single reaver box + all weapons. We'll probably see a lot of the resin weapons shift to plastic
I have a feeling the Titans will be consolidated into a single box. So a single reaver box + all weapons. We'll probably see a lot of the resin weapons shift to plastic
Agreed, they'll want to continue the SKU consolidation they've done for other product ranges recently.
For example I bet Reavers go from £37.50 to £40, but include the new style base, both weapon sprues, and thin card terminal & weapon cards like the Warmaster had. That lets them drop the expensive cardstock terminals which won't sell as well these days.
either the cards go in the box, or what happens is a rules change so there are no longer cards as part of a new "Epic" system
to be honest while I think the thicker card terminals are very nice I have to say any GW game that requires cards of some sort is on a hiding to nothing given their track record at keeping such in stock
they would actually do better to have such as injection plastic "cards" designed for a quick spray and ink wash, at least they could make those in house
MajorWesJanson wrote: I'm hoping the sprue comes with 2 of each, and that it heralds a new batch of plastic sprues for other titans, especially the warbringer which never gets to play in the fw reindeer games
Warbringer spotted on the new epic base, but I think those are regular weapons.
A melta weapon for Warhounds? That can presumably make targeted attacks?
I'm thinking they will be similar to the Warmasters shrunk down Melta Cannons, but who knows what GW will come up with! Something, anything, that reduces the Plasma spam on Warhounds can't be a bad thing.
Oh noticed they are expanding the civitas line with destroyed buildings in the latest legiones article. It's pretty clearly a 3d print (lots of horizontal line artifacts from I guess the stress of all the little window panes) but hopefully just early prototype for new plastic sprues.
A melta weapon for Warhounds? That can presumably make targeted attacks?
I'm thinking they will be similar to the Warmasters shrunk down Melta Cannons, but who knows what GW will come up with! Something, anything, that reduces the Plasma spam on Warhounds can't be a bad thing.
Yeah probably, and that one is still Blast, darn it. I'd probably field the PBG over it in most instances.
Apparently all AT models will get a repack with new bases for nuEpic. A good portion of the range is already listed as "no longer available", that is the "goes out of production" version.
Will be interesting to see how much of a price rise this will come with. Anybody willing to take notes of the current prices, so we can have a comparison in two months time?
They've been out of production for a while, for at least 6 months to a year iirc . Hopefully we get a re-release. I hope Armiger also get a plastic release
Every Titan will go "no longer available" sometimes in the next month since they will be repackaged with new bases, Knight probably too. Also I would expect the Warlord and Reiver to get everything in a single box now.
The Civitas terrain will also be repackaged with the new destroyed versions and maybe the spires also get included in a single kit.
The interesting kit is the Manufactorum. It also went "no longer available" now and that could just be because the box gets changed to the new Legions Imperialis label but maybe it will also get a new destroyed version too?
Darnok wrote: Apparently all AT models will get a repack with new bases for nuEpic. A good portion of the range is already listed as "no longer available", that is the "goes out of production" version.
Will be interesting to see how much of a price rise this will come with. Anybody willing to take notes of the current prices, so we can have a comparison in two months time?
The updated basing and box change shouldn't affect the price directly. However what would is if they start to include multiple weapon sprues and AT terminal cards (like the Warmaster had).
Several 40k models got reboxed in the last year to include extra weapon sprues & reduce the number of separate boxes. The Leman Russ went up by £2.50 while knights and baneblade variants were +£5.
So at a guess;
£37.50 > £40 for Reavers
£70 > £75 for Warlords?
So are we sure AT will keep getting any sort of support going forward, or will it be left on life support until current stock of rulebooks etc run out.
I can't see any new campaign books etc coming now. At best we get rules for some stuff such as new weapons when they are released for epic.
GW are notorious for dropping game support material, esp things like card stock. At the same time AT DID do well enough for them to consider Epic and there is a valid market for keeping a game that uses the same models and only requires a rulebook or a single compendium rulebook on sale.
GW could keep it alive if they want or they could kill it - its a coin toss with what they will do.
The other angle is what the market does. The market could reject the new Epic; or not buy into it enough. Or the market could embrace it so hard that functionally there aren't any AT events any more
Tamereth wrote: So are we sure AT will keep getting any sort of support going forward, or will it be left on life support until current stock of rulebooks etc run out.
I can't see any new campaign books etc coming now. At best we get rules for some stuff such as new weapons when they are released for epic.
What I suspect will happen in the near term:
- All existing Titanicus models will be phased out and repackaged into Epic Scale branded boxes
- Titans will be packaged into a single box with all weapon options as well as the new base, so no more seperate sprues
- Probably include thin card rules alongside
- Titanicus will likely have a repackaged starter with Epic Scale branding
They'll likely reduce SKUs as much as possible. After that, anytime something new is released for Epic, if it's Titanicus appropriate, it'll be bundled with the rules to play in Titanicus. I also reckon a lot of Forgeworld resins will be redone in plastic. I suspect most weapon options and some of the Knights. One hopeful wish I have is that if they are redone in plastic, we may see some new head variants and tilt shields.
I could see various kitc converted over to plastic, new weapons, and possibly a compendium every so often with things like "ruined buildings and superheavy tanks in games of AT"
Tamereth wrote: So are we sure AT will keep getting any sort of support going forward, or will it be left on life support until current stock of rulebooks etc run out.
I can't see any new campaign books etc coming now. At best we get rules for some stuff such as new weapons when they are released for epic.
If they were going to give AT the axe, they wouldn't have spent the time and effort on the compendium book. They would have just let it die. Unlike a lot of internet denizens, GW is more than smart enough to understand that all AT players (and AI players for that matter) aren't going to migrate to Legions just because it exists. Plenty won't. Makes more sense to keep both sets of customers around so that anything Titan-related can be sold to a larger audience.
Call me naive if you want, but I still don't think the Rapier is off the table. Especially since resin is an option as we saw with the Dire Wolf. Could easily have a place in both systems.
Rapier would have been nice in the Starter, but the Warhound is more iconic, and an excuse for plastic weapons. The Harpoon/Lance and Melta dont seem like the most logical weapons for dealing with infantry and small tanks after all.
Not much faith in either AT or AI sticking around as Legions Imperialis now seems to have titans, knights and aircraft all covered in one game system. There is also high expectation for GW to deliver other games such as Warmaster and BFG, and I doubt GW can afford to cover three different game systems when one will do.
I would venture that AT and AI could change direction to the 40K era, which would soften the blow of LI being 30K only and would differentiate them. The Eldar Phantom is one of the most iconic Adeptus Titanicus releases, while Ork players could possibly be the second most popular faction ever after Space Marines - Gargants and Stompas would be a huge hit.
But for the time being we have a plastic sprue for the Warhounds, and hopefully more for the other Titans. It would be a shame if they didn't at least give us one final hurrah with the Rapier. Now might be the time for the community to consider a fan magazine along the lines of Warp Rift...
MajorWesJanson wrote: Rapier would have been nice in the Starter, but the Warhound is more iconic, and an excuse for plastic weapons. The Harpoon/Lance and Melta dont seem like the most logical weapons for dealing with infantry and small tanks after all.
True, and I never bought the idea that the Rapier 'has to be' for fighting infantry and such. Seems to me Lancers and Acastus can feth up Titans pretty good.
SamusDrake wrote: Not much faith in either AT or AI sticking around as Legions Imperialis now seems to have titans, knights and aircraft all covered in one game system. There is also high expectation for GW to deliver other games such as Warmaster and BFG, and I doubt GW can afford to cover three different game systems when one will do.
I would venture that AT and AI could change direction to the 40K era, which would soften the blow of LI being 30K only and would differentiate them. The Eldar Phantom is one of the most iconic Adeptus Titanicus releases, while Ork players could possibly be the second most popular faction ever after Space Marines - Gargants and Stompas would be a huge hit.
But for the time being we have a plastic sprue for the Warhounds, and hopefully more for the other Titans. It would be a shame if they didn't at least give us one final hurrah with the Rapier. Now might be the time for the community to consider a fan magazine along the lines of Warp Rift...
What I have faith in GW understanding is that if you want to play an aircraft dogfighting game, Legions won't be the game for you. Nor will Legions be the game for someone who wants to play a crunchier game of Titan maniple combat. I'm under no biological imperative to play Legions just because I like Titan battles, and there will be plenty of other AT players who will pass on Legions. So why not keep those games alive and sell the same kits to more than one customer base?
I agree that AT will probably need to move into xenos factions in order to have a strong future. And I think it has a chance to do that someday when they're also ready to move out of the 30K period for Legions/a new Epic game. Heresy heads may not want to hear it, but there would be far more potential customers for Ork and Eldar factions than ultraniche 30K factions.
I don't expect any further direct support for AT apart from "incidental" additions (AT rules for releases primarily developed and branded for Epic, possibly including some dumb white dwarf addon for using tanks and infantry in AT)
If I remember correctly, and my memory is awful, Titans were not that great in EPIC-Armageddon. I can't recall many people taking anything other than the odd Warhound and the times I took them they seemed quite underwhelming. The emphasis was most certainly on Infantry, tanks and mobile units that could capture objectives.
If that's anything to go by I can't see Heavier Titans like Warlords and Warmasters really having a huge role to play in EPIC. They may have rules but they may well not be worth taking. So I can't see GW canning Titanicus, they wouldn't have invested so much in all these cool big models to then create EPIC which then makes those big cool models obsolete. Whilst I do feel that Titanicus might be just getting scraps for a while we may well see some of those smaller scale Titans that have been hinted at for so long like the Rapier and the other scale 7 titan(s) which might be better suited to EPIC rather than titanicus.
Heh, you never know, those Flack cannons on the Warbringer and Warmaster might actually come in handy in EPIC. It might also be a better system to field those Knight houses in.
Lord Borak wrote: Heh, you never know, those Flack cannons on the Warbringer and Warmaster might actually come in handy in EPIC. It might also be a better system to field those Knight houses in.
I think people will be fielding Knights sooner than Titans. They had to include two warhounds because of the way the sprue is made, but It would have been more interesting to have one Warhound and a sprue
of those new(ish) Acheron & Castigator knights.
MajorWesJanson wrote: Rapier would have been nice in the Starter, but the Warhound is more iconic, and an excuse for plastic weapons. The Harpoon/Lance and Melta dont seem like the most logical weapons for dealing with infantry and small tanks after all.
True, and I never bought the idea that the Rapier 'has to be' for fighting infantry and such. Seems to me Lancers and Acastus can feth up Titans pretty good.
Rapiers don't have to be for fighting infantry & tanks but it certainly helps to give them a purpose when Dire Wolves & Warhounds & Acastus & Lancers all exist. It's much easier to justify a unit that can work in multiple roles rather than shoehorning it into an already overcrowded one.
gorgon wrote: Heresy heads may not want to hear it, but there would be far more potential customers for Ork and Eldar factions than ultraniche 30K factions.
As much as I'd love to see gargants again, I really don't think it's that simple. There's a strong commercial reason the Heresy concept was used since the 1980's and is still used now.
If GW release a small niche selection Mechanicum models then it doesn't need to be a huge investment for them. They can put out 2-4 new kits, any literally any Epic Heresy player can slot those models into a list if they feel like it. Doesn't matter if they currently field mostly marines or guard or knights or titans. They can impulse buy those new Skitarii tech guard & Ordinatus engine as a new detachment and it's not a major project.
Then a while later GW can release some more obscure marine / guard / knight units. Again it's a low barrier of entry to existing Epic players, and If any of these individual niche releases aren't popular then it was only a small investment. Meanwhile GW are using previous Epic models to attract further new customers to the game via discounted boxed sets.
However in order to sell Orks or Eldar GW have to make a much riskier investment, because players can't just pick up 2-3 boxes of Orks and start playing a game. They can't use their existing AT titan and knight models to round out a list. Realistically it means designing at least the same 10 new kits but compressed into a shorter release schedule so that players can build functional armies. That requires selling at a discount, rather than the full price they'd be selling at previously. In turn that means GW have to convince even more players to buy a whole new Epic army from scratch, and find Epic opponents to play with on suitable terrain.
I think it'll happen eventually, but a key first step is going to be growing the Epic market first. Get people playing the game in shops and clubs, make sure the terrain is available and accessible. Then they can make the bigger gambles.
The rapier is tough because the warhound really does seem like "the floor" in terms of titan stats. It's no help that the next current biggest model is the acastus and they're so objectively well performing for the points.
I think rapiers would have to be functionally lighter armoured warhounds. The other problem with presenting them as sorta one down in the scale chain is you're quickly running out of points to reduce from a warhounds base cost.
So it would make more sense perhaps to make them scale 6 like hounds, similar stats but perhaps bump movement at the cost of armour, could be like the only titan that has a Armour of 9 on the body or less varied damage model.
There currently aren't any titan's that do more of a support or buff to other titans at the core level. Could honestly see rapier being cable in a support role like laseing/scoping targets or painting/marking targets for other titans. A simple mechanic like the old tau marker lights would be great too. Could be dirt simple like if the laser hits you leave a counter at the targets base that if used by another friendly titan allows for example re-rolls to hit or integer buffs to help mitigate cover for targetted shots. The second idea could be fun an organic, like you could have a situation where a target titan is in 50% cover or has a body part obscured making targeted attacks usually not possible, but perhaps if a rapier has eyes on the target it can help buff the shot. Could help mitigate both cover and range modifiers.
Would love it if like how they gave the dire wolf a special deployment ability, they have rapiers like outflank or something similar to the dire wolf's infiltrate style deployment. Could even see it having the ability to place mines or some kind of disruption.
Edit: Was meant for the Epic thread but might still be interesting to see how titanicus pans out now that AI seems to go away
Well, one thought, re-boxing with additional bases for epic, because the current bases for ai look sorta bad/out of place in epic. The AT stuff is likely getting a re-boxing with thinner bases and hopefully cards/terminals.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Chopstick wrote: An even easier to overheat titan than warhound doesn't sound too great to play tbh.
Ya exactly, but could see a faster warhound equiv with weaker armour.
Edit: Was meant for the Epic thread but might still be interesting to see how titanicus pans out now that AI seems to go away
Well, one thought, re-boxing with additional bases for epic, because the current bases for ai look sorta bad/out of place in epic. The AT stuff is likely getting a re-boxing with thinner bases and hopefully cards/terminals.
Alas, it's all the Xenos and post-Heresy units that have gone Last Chance to Buy, and Epic is Horus Heresy-era only. 40k Aeronautica Imperialis is dead.
See my issue with Epic 30K is that whilst the titans are ageless, the tanks, troops and such are not. So GW is going to flesh out 30K before they even touch on a 40K game.
That's going to take ages which means Xenos, esp anything that isn't Eldar nor Orks, is going to be a very long time off.
Doing 40k xenos would also mean doing Primaris, I don't see them more or less superseding the Firstborn that haven't even hit preorder yet in any forseeable timeframe.
lord_blackfang wrote: Doing 40k xenos would also mean doing Primaris, I don't see them more or less superseding the Firstborn that haven't even hit preorder yet in any forseeable timeframe.
Well, not necessarily. They could set the game in any other time period where firstborn and xenos clashed.
xttz wrote: As much as I'd love to see gargants again, I really don't think it's that simple. There's a strong commercial reason the Heresy concept was used since the 1980's and is still used now.
If GW release a small niche selection Mechanicum models then it doesn't need to be a huge investment for them. They can put out 2-4 new kits, any literally any Epic Heresy player can slot those models into a list if they feel like it. Doesn't matter if they currently field mostly marines or guard or knights or titans. They can impulse buy those new Skitarii tech guard & Ordinatus engine as a new detachment and it's not a major project.
Then a while later GW can release some more obscure marine / guard / knight units. Again it's a low barrier of entry to existing Epic players, and If any of these individual niche releases aren't popular then it was only a small investment. Meanwhile GW are using previous Epic models to attract further new customers to the game via discounted boxed sets.
However in order to sell Orks or Eldar GW have to make a much riskier investment, because players can't just pick up 2-3 boxes of Orks and start playing a game. They can't use their existing AT titan and knight models to round out a list. Realistically it means designing at least the same 10 new kits but compressed into a shorter release schedule so that players can build functional armies. That requires selling at a discount, rather than the full price they'd be selling at previously. In turn that means GW have to convince even more players to buy a whole new Epic army from scratch, and find Epic opponents to play with on suitable terrain.
I think it'll happen eventually, but a key first step is going to be growing the Epic market first. Get people playing the game in shops and clubs, make sure the terrain is available and accessible. Then they can make the bigger gambles.
Eh. As I've discussed before, going with the cheapest, safest, most limited route with a product launch isn't always the best plan. If the plan is to get people buying the product and maximize sales, then it makes more sense to include more to attract customers. Such as those 40K factions with sizable existing followings. Being overly conservative with a launch can mean the product just doesn't catch on. gak, 'xenos when?' might have been as common of a comment in AT discussions as 'Epic when?' It's not necessarily a brilliant strategy on GW's part to intentionally leave money on the table.
I fully recognize that the business plan with Legions may be aiming to hit a single rather than a triple or home run. There's certainly a place for that. Although then that leads one to think that the support for the game may not be *quite* as extensive as some folks seem to be expecting. Can't have it both ways there.
I don't think that the volume of kits required for xenos factions (AT or Epic) is a huge barrier though. It's not 2003 anymore. AT got two Warmaster Titan releases in one year. We probably could have had an AT Ork faction instead (or at least most of one) for that same amount of machine time. The main constraint is that you aren't making other kits for your core products during that period. The constraint is more about priorities.
Eh. As I've discussed before, going with the cheapest, safest, most limited route with a product launch isn't always the best plan. If the plan is to get people buying the product and maximize sales, then it makes more sense to include more to attract customers. Such as those 40K factions with sizable existing followings. Being overly conservative with a launch can mean the product just doesn't catch on. gak, 'xenos when?' might have been as common of a comment in AT discussions as 'Epic when?' It's not necessarily a brilliant strategy on GW's part to intentionally leave money on the table.
I fully recognize that the business plan with Legions may be aiming to hit a single rather than a triple or home run. There's certainly a place for that. Although then that leads one to think that the support for the game may not be *quite* as extensive as some folks seem to be expecting. Can't have it both ways there.
I don't think that the volume of kits required for xenos factions (AT or Epic) is a huge barrier though. It's not 2003 anymore. AT got two Warmaster Titan releases in one year. We probably could have had an AT Ork faction instead (or at least most of one) for that same amount of machine time. The main constraint is that you aren't making other kits for your core products during that period. The constraint is more about priorities.
The other thing to consider is internal political wrangling. I suspect the 40k design studio is very protective of anyone working on parallel 40k products. The last thing want is to be have sales "stolen" or, even worse, shown up by the Forgeworld team again...
lord_blackfang wrote: Doing 40k xenos would also mean doing Primaris, I don't see them more or less superseding the Firstborn that haven't even hit preorder yet in any forseeable timeframe.
Well, not necessarily. They could set the game in any other time period where firstborn and xenos clashed.
xttz wrote: As much as I'd love to see gargants again, I really don't think it's that simple. There's a strong commercial reason the Heresy concept was used since the 1980's and is still used now.
If GW release a small niche selection Mechanicum models then it doesn't need to be a huge investment for them. They can put out 2-4 new kits, any literally any Epic Heresy player can slot those models into a list if they feel like it. Doesn't matter if they currently field mostly marines or guard or knights or titans. They can impulse buy those new Skitarii tech guard & Ordinatus engine as a new detachment and it's not a major project.
Then a while later GW can release some more obscure marine / guard / knight units. Again it's a low barrier of entry to existing Epic players, and If any of these individual niche releases aren't popular then it was only a small investment. Meanwhile GW are using previous Epic models to attract further new customers to the game via discounted boxed sets.
However in order to sell Orks or Eldar GW have to make a much riskier investment, because players can't just pick up 2-3 boxes of Orks and start playing a game. They can't use their existing AT titan and knight models to round out a list. Realistically it means designing at least the same 10 new kits but compressed into a shorter release schedule so that players can build functional armies. That requires selling at a discount, rather than the full price they'd be selling at previously. In turn that means GW have to convince even more players to buy a whole new Epic army from scratch, and find Epic opponents to play with on suitable terrain.
I think it'll happen eventually, but a key first step is going to be growing the Epic market first. Get people playing the game in shops and clubs, make sure the terrain is available and accessible. Then they can make the bigger gambles.
Eh. As I've discussed before, going with the cheapest, safest, most limited route with a product launch isn't always the best plan. If the plan is to get people buying the product and maximize sales, then it makes more sense to include more to attract customers. Such as those 40K factions with sizable existing followings. Being overly conservative with a launch can mean the product just doesn't catch on. gak, 'xenos when?' might have been as common of a comment in AT discussions as 'Epic when?' It's not necessarily a brilliant strategy on GW's part to intentionally leave money on the table.
I fully recognize that the business plan with Legions may be aiming to hit a single rather than a triple or home run. There's certainly a place for that. Although then that leads one to think that the support for the game may not be *quite* as extensive as some folks seem to be expecting. Can't have it both ways there.
I don't think that the volume of kits required for xenos factions (AT or Epic) is a huge barrier though. It's not 2003 anymore. AT got two Warmaster Titan releases in one year. We probably could have had an AT Ork faction instead (or at least most of one) for that same amount of machine time. The main constraint is that you aren't making other kits for your core products during that period. The constraint is more about priorities.
I agree with most of what you're saying here, but these discussions sooner or later wind down because key factors are purposely kept unknowable by GW. The last couple of years, they have made strings of business decisions that were just baffling for the outside observer, from drastically underserving demand time and time again with their limited releases, to the major problems with e.g. Cursed City, quality issues in printed products, whatever is happening behind the scenes with LotR and related products, and more oddities besides. All that in front of the backdrop of their asinine preview/roadmap policy that almost nobody else does this way, and their generally idiosyncratic ways in general. We don't know gak because they don't want us to know gak, and you kind of have to believe them (or don't, i'm not ordering anyone around) when they profess that any of this makes sense with their internal data. My gut feeling is 'The heck it does' because so much of it is just outlandish, but their annual reports seem to prove them right.
xttz wrote: [
As much as I'd love to see gargants again, I really don't think it's that simple. There's a strong commercial reason the Heresy concept was used since the 1980's and is still used now.
If GW release a small niche selection Mechanicum models then it doesn't need to be a huge investment for them. They can put out 2-4 new kits, any literally any Epic Heresy player can slot those models into a list if they feel like it. Doesn't matter if they currently field mostly marines or guard or knights or titans. They can impulse buy those new Skitarii tech guard & Ordinatus engine as a new detachment and it's not a major project.
Then a while later GW can release some more obscure marine / guard / knight units. Again it's a low barrier of entry to existing Epic players, and If any of these individual niche releases aren't popular then it was only a small investment. Meanwhile GW are using previous Epic models to attract further new customers to the game via discounted boxed sets.
However in order to sell Orks or Eldar GW have to make a much riskier investment, because players can't just pick up 2-3 boxes of Orks and start playing a game. They can't use their existing AT titan and knight models to round out a list. Realistically it means designing at least the same 10 new kits but compressed into a shorter release schedule so that players can build functional armies. That requires selling at a discount, rather than the full price they'd be selling at previously. In turn that means GW have to convince even more players to buy a whole new Epic army from scratch, and find Epic opponents to play with on suitable terrain.
I think it'll happen eventually, but a key first step is going to be growing the Epic market first. Get people playing the game in shops and clubs, make sure the terrain is available and accessible. Then they can make the bigger gambles.
I'm not totally against this logic, but at the same time they are a billion pound company that often boost about making the best models in the world. They could easily invest in making enough Ork kits in one go. Better yet, if they don't want the full blown risk they could have kept the scale the same as before and rereleased the entire old line.
I get the logic that if Epic sells well, we could expect them to bring other races into it later on. Much like necromunda did when they brought out ash wastes as a separate game. However, I really don't like the way others do try to spin the 'if you buy new Epic, they will definitely bring xenos into later on'. (Its very similar financial blackmailing tactics that fans did with the dune movie last year- 'if you don't go to see part one multiple times, they might not make a part 2'.)
I wont be financially held hostage to buy something just on the chance I might get the item I want later on. GW have a billion pounds to risk and play with, I don't. What I have is a couple of hundred quid in my backpocket which I can buy hobby products with. If they don't want to put Orks out, I'll buy them from the company that does.
If they really wanted to do something that appealed to Epic fanbase and not just HH, why not put out a game with less units to start. A sprue of infantry & basic tanks/dreads for both Marines and Orks. Then, if it sells well then move into making all those tank variations. Then re-box AI & AT to coincide with the first gargant release. And on and on until all the races are accounted for. By the time the have the entire HH range out, someone else will have made every kind of ork in the new epic scale/style.
If they really wanted to do something that appealed to Epic fanbase and not just HH, why not put out a game with less units to start. A sprue of infantry & basic tanks/dreads for both Marines and Orks. Then, if it sells well then move into making all those tank variations. Then re-box AI & AT to coincide with the first gargant release. And on and on until all the races are accounted for. By the time the have the entire HH range out, someone else will have made every kind of ork in the new epic scale/style.
The problem with that is that it takes a long time for GW to make the kits, I think it was around 3 years from start to release? So while they can estimate how well it would sell, anything you would want them to release in the first 3 years of epic would have to be started before they can actually look at real numbers.
Of course there are also probably many things that they started to developed even if they didn't know for sure if it would sell and then scrapped or changed if they saw it wouldn't sell.
If we look at Titanicus nearly all of the plastic releases where releases within 2 years of the game launch so where probably already in planning stages before the game launched, the Warmaster is the only plastic release I can see them starting after that. And after the Warmaster at the end of 2021 there weren't any new plastic releases at all, probably because they already where working on epic at that point and focused their resources on that instead. So I would expect at least two years worth of releases to be in varying degrees of work/completion right now.
Eh. As I've discussed before, going with the cheapest, safest, most limited route with a product launch isn't always the best plan. If the plan is to get people buying the product and maximize sales, then it makes more sense to include more to attract customers. Such as those 40K factions with sizable existing followings. Being overly conservative with a launch can mean the product just doesn't catch on. gak, 'xenos when?' might have been as common of a comment in AT discussions as 'Epic when?' It's not necessarily a brilliant strategy on GW's part to intentionally leave money on the table.
I fully recognize that the business plan with Legions may be aiming to hit a single rather than a triple or home run. There's certainly a place for that. Although then that leads one to think that the support for the game may not be *quite* as extensive as some folks seem to be expecting. Can't have it both ways there.
I don't think that the volume of kits required for xenos factions (AT or Epic) is a huge barrier though. It's not 2003 anymore. AT got two Warmaster Titan releases in one year. We probably could have had an AT Ork faction instead (or at least most of one) for that same amount of machine time. The main constraint is that you aren't making other kits for your core products during that period. The constraint is more about priorities.
The other thing to consider is internal political wrangling. I suspect the 40k design studio is very protective of anyone working on parallel 40k products. The last thing want is to be have sales "stolen" or, even worse, shown up by the Forgeworld team again...
Yeah, I completely agree that there may be some weird internal divisions about what part of the IP 'belongs' to whom. The HH may be the only part of the IP that the boxed games folks are 'allowed' to use.
Kinda goes without saying that you've lost the thread a bit as a company if you let stuff like this dictate what comes to market. It definitely shouldn't be a free-for-all with the IP, but it shouldn't be about fiefdoms either.
Thinking on that line it might even be that its nothing to do with fiefdoms but more that its GW's internal division rising to the fore. Ergo that the FW/Specialist games team isn't allowed to see what the 40K/AoS teams are working on in advance to protect GW's secrets.
So its not that they can't do 40K stuff, but that they can't see what's going on with it so they can't really work within its ecosystem as they've really no idea what the other teams are going to do with the setting, models, model ranges, armies, factions and such.
Both avenues are interesting arguments for why the new Epic and AT are trapped in the 30K setting.
The other could just be that the games aren't generating enough sales for GW managers to sign off for the budget for a massive line update for other factions. So the design team is again sticking to 30K because lore wise it allows for mirror-matches.
Shouldn't be hard for GW to make 3 titans/knights for xenos factions but people would be complaining why Imperium got more ? And the releases are snail pace you can't really expect them to expand more on any faction when there're too many of them.
If they really wanted to do something that appealed to Epic fanbase and not just HH, why not put out a game with less units to start. A sprue of infantry & basic tanks/dreads for both Marines and Orks. Then, if it sells well then move into making all those tank variations. Then re-box AI & AT to coincide with the first gargant release. And on and on until all the races are accounted for. By the time the have the entire HH range out, someone else will have made every kind of ork in the new epic scale/style.
The problem with that is that it takes a long time for GW to make the kits, I think it was around 3 years from start to release? So while they can estimate how well it would sell, anything you would want them to release in the first 3 years of epic would have to be started before they can actually look at real numbers.
Of course there are also probably many things that they started to developed even if they didn't know for sure if it would sell and then scrapped or changed if they saw it wouldn't sell.
If we look at Titanicus nearly all of the plastic releases where releases within 2 years of the game launch so where probably already in planning stages before the game launched, the Warmaster is the only plastic release I can see them starting after that. And after the Warmaster at the end of 2021 there weren't any new plastic releases at all, probably because they already where working on epic at that point and focused their resources on that instead. So I would expect at least two years worth of releases to be in varying degrees of work/completion right now.
GW have put out articles saying that the design time is like 3 years, but I really don't believe it. Smaller companies can put plastic kits now in around 6 months, and GW is meant to be the leading company in this hobby.
You also have things like them claiming it takes three years, but had new armies coming out in the first year of Age of Sigmar. Most stories from Ex GW workers/writers seem to point to AoS being written on the tail end of the end times, when they had already spent time writing what should have been WFB 9th. Which means they either planned to have giant chaos warriors, stormcasts, flying dwarves and sea elves appear in WFB or their plastics development time is lot, lot shorter than they claim it to be.
I suspect someone has probably done up some designs already for Epic. They probably have their own internal road map that proto type orks, or at least 3d renders would be for showing off to get budget to work on it. I just dislike the lack of transparency from GW, leaving fans to push their own opinions on if we would see 40k lines later on. I know full well if they were to turn around and say 'maybe' and then it gets canned, they'd get the flak for that. But in a perfect world, they could at least come and say "look, buy lots of marines and we will see other races in a few years!"
They could have done an entire Epic Ork army on just the production slots of Warcry meat trees, but they chose not to. I expect they wil continue to choose not to.
lord_blackfang wrote: They could have done an entire Epic Ork army on just the production slots of Warcry meat trees, but they chose not to. I expect they wil continue to choose not to.
Yet.
The word you’re avoiding so carefully is yet.
A new game system for any company is a risk. Whether going the heresy era civil war to make every SKU of some appeal to every player, or going for smaller but more numerous factions, it remains a risk.
We don’t need to like that fact, but a fact it remains.
AT, like AI, does to some degree feel like a dead end - for now. But if Epic sells well? We can reasonably expect GW, for the same reasons people bash them with, to expand it into the modern 40K era in the Kwest For Kash. Because again, we don’t need to like it, but that’s now capitalism and business works.
lord_blackfang wrote: They could have done an entire Epic Ork army on just the production slots of Warcry meat trees, but they chose not to. I expect they wil continue to choose not to.
Yet.
The word you’re avoiding so carefully is yet.
A new game system for any company is a risk. Whether going the heresy era civil war to make every SKU of some appeal to every player, or going for smaller but more numerous factions, it remains a risk.
We don’t need to like that fact, but a fact it remains.
AT, like AI, does to some degree feel like a dead end - for now. But if Epic sells well? We can reasonably expect GW, for the same reasons people bash them with, to expand it into the modern 40K era in the Kwest For Kash. Because again, we don’t need to like it, but that’s now capitalism and business works.
Yet, yes. How many years will that "yet" stil be "yet"? Who knows. At this moment the only thing we know is that the ork planes are going.
Yeah, "you might get it in 3-5 years" effectively means it isn't going to happen for many of the current customers. Lots will have moved on to other games, gotten out of the hobby, etc. "Someday" isn't a business plan -- it's the absence of a business plan.
GW have put out articles saying that the design time is like 3 years, but I really don't believe it. Smaller companies can put plastic kits now in around 6 months, and GW is meant to be the leading company in this hobby.
You also have things like them claiming it takes three years, but had new armies coming out in the first year of Age of Sigmar. Most stories from Ex GW workers/writers seem to point to AoS being written on the tail end of the end times, when they had already spent time writing what should have been WFB 9th. Which means they either planned to have giant chaos warriors, stormcasts, flying dwarves and sea elves appear in WFB or their plastics development time is lot, lot shorter than they claim it to be.
first it was said 3 years from starting with the design to produce enough for a worldwide launch and smaller companies having a single game and don't need to manage factory slots for everything or need the time to produce the amount of models GW sells
and yes, GW worked on Stormcast, Khorne and Slayers (and those would have also fit into a post Endtimes Warhammer World) by the time 8th Edition started, the rules writer might not have known about that because to prevent leaks GW does not tell everyone everything but only what they need to know (so to change/remove Warhammer Fantasy was decided early on and/or already at the end of 7th Edition)
so GW has fixed dates for their main games and not much possibility to change them during the process without messing up everything else as well (so having a made to order to produce more of a limited release launch box means every other product will be impacted by that), work for 11th 40k is going to start with the design process soon, while for AoS 4th work might be almost done and production process is going to start soon and the other games get their factory slots in between and need to use them (if they have something ready or not)
While I feel a bit sorry for anyone who bought the old one that's been replaced so quickly... I am also all for rotating bad models out of the range quickly, and the resin one was awful.
The Phazer wrote: While I feel a bit sorry for anyone who bought the old one that's been replaced so quickly... I am also all for rotating bad models out of the range quickly, and the resin one was awful.
I have a Dire Wolf as part of an order I am waiting on a couple items before they ship. I wonder if the plastic kit will make it out first?
Still, nice that they gave it a new weapon option.
I quite like it, has the look of a force making use of what they have.
"we need heavier weapons!"
"we won't get supply for some time, we could take weapons from damaged larger titans and fit to a warhound? I mean its not designed for it so the arm mounts would have to be non-energy weapons maybe?"
"would that work?"
"... perhaps it can be made to..."
and thus this is born, and over time a field modification is refined
The Phazer wrote: While I feel a bit sorry for anyone who bought the old one that's been replaced so quickly... I am also all for rotating bad models out of the range quickly, and the resin one was awful.
The plastic and resin ones look basically identical as far as I can see.
leopard wrote: interesting noting rules are in the new game rule book, no mention of this coming with a command terminal in the box though, or cards
maybe AT is about to see a change?
It could be done in the traditional GW approach of cards/rules in box, collected in an annual book - thus you could also roll out some stuff via WD or whatever, without people getting riled up too much if they missed anything.
Boosykes wrote: Gota say cool addition but I think the regular war hound looks better
Extending the ardex barrels a little did the trick for me.
Spoiler:
More plastic for AT is a good thing.
Very effective for such a simple conversion, looks much more dynamic somehow.
I think what could also help would be to have some cables, or a banner/trophies hang from the torso, below the head, to break up the 'chicken' look it has going on.
The Phazer wrote: While I feel a bit sorry for anyone who bought the old one that's been replaced so quickly... I am also all for rotating bad models out of the range quickly, and the resin one was awful.
I bought one on Pre-Order and I still haven't built it yet
The New Beamer looks cool. Reaver arm sized Beamer??? Hopefully that means we'll get some new arm options for the Reaver. Here's hoping.
As for the rules. It says
"Rules for this Titan hunter will be available in the main Legions Imperialis rulebook,* while the box contains a pair of Dire Wolf Heavy Scout Titans – just like regular Warhounds. And remember, they can be used in both games of Adeptus Titanicus and Legions Imperialis.
* Rules for the new conversion beam dissipator in Adeptus Titanicus and Legions Imperialis are provided."
Lord Borak wrote: The New Beamer looks cool. Reaver arm sized Beamer??? Hopefully that means we'll get some new arm options for the Reaver. Here's hoping.
Hoping for that and Neutron Laser arm weapons.
Also, I suspect a lot of the existing resin weapons will be moved over to plastic. Hopefully with new head variants...
The Phazer wrote: While I feel a bit sorry for anyone who bought the old one that's been replaced so quickly... I am also all for rotating bad models out of the range quickly, and the resin one was awful.
I bought one on Pre-Order and I still haven't built it yet
The New Beamer looks cool. Reaver arm sized Beamer??? Hopefully that means we'll get some new arm options for the Reaver. Here's hoping.
As for the rules. It says
"Rules for this Titan hunter will be available in the main Legions Imperialis rulebook,* while the box contains a pair of Dire Wolf Heavy Scout Titans – just like regular Warhounds. And remember, they can be used in both games of Adeptus Titanicus and Legions Imperialis.
* Rules for the new conversion beam dissipator in Adeptus Titanicus and Legions Imperialis are provided."
Interesting tidbit from the social media team:
EccentricNormality
@EccentricBen
·
1h
Does legions Imperialis still use the titanicus control terminals? Or will you need a set for each game?
Warhammer Official
@warhammer
·
1h
No, Titanicus is far more granular. There's no mechanic for managing reactors in Legions Imperialis and the rules you need will all be in the Core rules book at launch.
That would not help you, as long as stuff is not revealed yet the social media person always answers 'Might happen one day, we have to wait and see' or some variant thereof. It could be something that was literally slated for release the day after you asked that question, answer would still be the same
EccentricNormality
@EccentricBen
·
1h
Does legions Imperialis still use the titanicus control terminals? Or will you need a set for each game?
Warhammer Official
@warhammer
·
1h
No, Titanicus is far more granular. There's no mechanic for managing reactors in Legions Imperialis and the rules you need will all be in the Core rules book at launch.
So pretty much what we expected then. If you want to play a Titan battle game, play AT. If you want a combined arms game with some Titans in the mix, play LI.
Not surprised they didn't confirm the Rapier on social media But I think the plastic DW means it has a good chance to happen now. .
So since we now know they are willing to port resin AT stuff to plastic the "No longer available" Warlord Psi Titan is looking mighty suspicious.
Especially since it wouldn't need a whole kit, just an upgrade sprue.
New Warlord sprue with some previously resin weapons and the parts for this guy?
I agree. I wouldn't mind having some for the collection, but the prices on that resin kit are eye-watering even for FW.
It was the final staw for me and gave up on collecting for the game after that. Only purchase I've made since is the Knight card pack, and only because I missed out on it back in 2019.
That would not help you, as long as stuff is not revealed yet the social media person always answers 'Might happen one day, we have to wait and see' or some variant thereof. It could be something that was literally slated for release the day after you asked that question, answer would still be the same
Unusually had a few quite specific answers today that show knowledge of the kits and rules, and there’s at least two people answering (because they both answered the same question).
The new Dire Wolf guns getting Titanicus rules was a pleasant surprise. Fingers crossed this means that the two games are going to coexist under the Epic scale banner.
leopard wrote: I quite like it, has the look of a force making use of what they have.
"we need heavier weapons!"
"we won't get supply for some time, we could take weapons from damaged larger titans and fit to a warhound? I mean its not designed for it so the arm mounts would have to be non-energy weapons maybe?"
"would that work?"
"... perhaps it can be made to..."
and thus this is born, and over time a field modification is refined
leopard wrote: I quite like it, has the look of a force making use of what they have.
"we need heavier weapons!"
"we won't get supply for some time, we could take weapons from damaged larger titans and fit to a warhound? I mean its not designed for it so the arm mounts would have to be non-energy weapons maybe?"
"would that work?"
"... perhaps it can be made to..."
and thus this is born, and over time a field modification is refined
Heresy.
What you described is referred to as heresy.
In 40k, sure. But in 30k or before, when new stuff was being rediscovered, makes tons of sense that the mechanicum might plug various STC fragments together and see what the result is.
No, Titanicus is far more granular. There's no mechanic for managing reactors in Legions Imperialis and the rules you need will all be in the Core rules book at launch.
Not really unexpected here. With all the units and forces involved, some amount of streamlining was necessary.
If they really wanted to do something that appealed to Epic fanbase and not just HH, why not put out a game with less units to start. A sprue of infantry & basic tanks/dreads for both Marines and Orks. Then, if it sells well then move into making all those tank variations. Then re-box AI & AT to coincide with the first gargant release. And on and on until all the races are accounted for. By the time the have the entire HH range out, someone else will have made every kind of ork in the new epic scale/style.
You also have things like them claiming it takes three years, but had new armies coming out in the first year of Age of Sigmar. Most stories from Ex GW workers/writers seem to point to AoS being written on the tail end of the end times, when they had already spent time writing what should have been WFB 9th. Which means they either planned to have giant chaos warriors, stormcasts, flying dwarves and sea elves appear in WFB or their plastics development time is lot, lot shorter than they claim it to be.
Work on aos started summer 2012.
3 years before rele@sb...
Tail end of end times would have meant not even tlme to get items printed and delivered. You think gw controls time?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
gorgon wrote: Yeah, "you might get it in 3-5 years" effectively means it isn't going to happen for many of the current customers. Lots will have moved on to other games, gotten out of the hobby, etc. "Someday" isn't a business plan -- it's the absence of a business plan.
leopard wrote: I quite like it, has the look of a force making use of what they have.
"we need heavier weapons!"
"we won't get supply for some time, we could take weapons from damaged larger titans and fit to a warhound? I mean its not designed for it so the arm mounts would have to be non-energy weapons maybe?"
"would that work?"
"... perhaps it can be made to..."
and thus this is born, and over time a field modification is refined
Heresy.
What you described is referred to as heresy.
In 40k, sure. But in 30k or before, when new stuff was being rediscovered, makes tons of sense that the mechanicum might plug various STC fragments together and see what the result is.
well to be fair heretical actions in a time of heresy seems fitting
Lord Borak wrote: The New Beamer looks cool. Reaver arm sized Beamer??? Hopefully that means we'll get some new arm options for the Reaver. Here's hoping.
Hoping for that and Neutron Laser arm weapons.
Also, I suspect a lot of the existing resin weapons will be moved over to plastic. Hopefully with new head variants...
I'm not sure I like the idea of loads of Neutron lasers everywhere. Having your a chunk of your force shut down in turn 1 isn't the most fun of games to play. The move from REsin to Plastic though would be nice but the resin models are nice and, as I have loads already, I wouldn't get them anyway. I'd rather see a sprue of newer weapons.
However GW does like taking things from FW and turning them into plastics so I'm sure we'll see a sprue with loads of different weapon options. Hopefully with some new ones squeezed in!! (Looking at you Warlord scale Melta Cannon and chainfist)
Epic certainly does open up a lot of other gear for Titans. Certainly the command heads/towers and some landing pads with AA towers would be useful. We might find a lot of the 'meh' weapons in Titanicus become more handy in Epic, like lasers and Volkites.
Very much waiting for next Thursday to see what other toys we'll get! I'll be incredibly disappointed if they waste it on some silly 28mm game.
Lord Borak wrote: Epic certainly does open up a lot of other gear for Titans. Certainly the command heads/towers and some landing pads with AA towers would be useful. We might find a lot of the 'meh' weapons in Titanicus become more handy in Epic, like lasers and Volkites.
Very much waiting for next Thursday to see what other toys we'll get! I'll be incredibly disappointed if they waste it on some silly 28mm game.
Wouldn't expect another titanicus reveal already next week. Probably some LI stuff. I think Rhinos or Land Raiders would be likely
In case no one's posted it yet (and in case there was still any doubt), GW posted this in today's 'burning questions' LI article:
Will the Adeptus Titanicus and Aeronautica Imperialis Still be Supported?
Adeptus Titanicus and Aeronautica Imperialis are both fantastic games that dig into the intricacies of the specific forms of combat they represent. Legions Imperialis is designed to represent a massive combined arms battle on all fronts, and its rules for aircraft and Titans are more streamlined. Support for Adeptus Titanicus and Aeronautica Imperialis (in the Horus Heresy setting only) will continue, so you can continue to play these games alongside this exciting new epic scale game.
I'm not quite sure how they can continue to support AI when they've also said that all the Xenos ships and Imperial Guard are being retired from the range right now.
Kind of sounds like its going to be 1 boxed set and a few aircraft that hang about and that's it. Which does count as supporting, just in a really really stripped down form.
Glad that its not a full death, but at hte same time for many players its going to be a functional death unless those removed aircraft come around in range rotation reprints fairly often.
I can imagine that AI will most likely be the various Space Marine flyers, a few of the Imperial Army craft that still remain, and then there's stuff like the Adeptus Custodes and Mechanicum.
Overread wrote: I'm not quite sure how they can continue to support AI when they've also said that all the Xenos ships and Imperial Guard are being retired from the range right now.
Kind of sounds like its going to be 1 boxed set and a few aircraft that hang about and that's it. Which does count as supporting, just in a really really stripped down form.
Glad that its not a full death, but at hte same time for many players its going to be a functional death unless those removed aircraft come around in range rotation reprints fairly often.
It will probably amount to doing AI rules for whatever flyers turn up in LI (perhaps some more Custodes flyers, IA flyers, more SM stuff, Mechanicus flyers, perhaps SoS and so on, maybe even legion-specific stuff) and doing maybe some more Ace cards, and maybe a campaign book or whatever. That GW has done nothing for the game for some time does not mean that there are no options they could do if they wanted to. As a minimum, rules for new models are effectively as good as free to release digitally.
Yea I expect them to just publish Aeronautica rules for new flyers as they're released for Epic. Ideally they would also come with AI bases in the box like titans apparently still come with terminals.
leopard wrote: I quite like it, has the look of a force making use of what they have.
"we need heavier weapons!"
"we won't get supply for some time, we could take weapons from damaged larger titans and fit to a warhound? I mean its not designed for it so the arm mounts would have to be non-energy weapons maybe?"
"would that work?"
"... perhaps it can be made to..."
and thus this is born, and over time a field modification is refined
Heresy.
What you described is referred to as heresy.
In 40k, sure. But in 30k or before, when new stuff was being rediscovered, makes tons of sense that the mechanicum might plug various STC fragments together and see what the result is.
I was pretty sure that the concept of techno-heresy was still around in 30k. The 30k era mechanicum is just as superstitious and religious as the 40k era adeptus mechanicus. The wider imperium became more religious, but the mechanicum was already and the Cult Mechanicus a powerful force there when the Emperor convinced them to follow him as the Omnissiah/Machine God and sign the Treaty of Olympus to unify Mars and Terra. Ironic given the while Imperial Truth thing, but that's what the fluff says.
That's a big part of why the mechanicum participated in the schism and many joined horus, because there was a big doubt that the Emperor was actually the Machine God.
Overread wrote: I'm not quite sure how they can continue to support AI when they've also said that all the Xenos ships and Imperial Guard are being retired from the range right now.
Alright, own up - which of you princeps are in league with these mad hatters?
It's funny, back when we did titans on the stores for Games Day, we used to make them A LOT bigger than what they're selling now ^^. Like the warlords went almost up to my torax.
It's funny, back when we did titans on the stores for Games Day, we used to make them A LOT bigger than what they're selling now ^^. Like the warlords went almost up to my torax.
Sounds like the days when Gargants were made out of upside-down flower pots and lots and lots of kitbashing. That would have been a hilarious project for Blue Peter...
Alright, own up - which of you princeps are in league with these mad hatters?
"Currently Forge World make four sizes of Titan: a Warhound, a Reaver, a Warbringer Nemesis, and a mighty Warlord"
What do you mean "currently?" Is that a Warmaster I see in the distance?
Alright, own up - which of you princeps are in league with these mad hatters?
"Currently Forge World make four sizes of Titan: a Warhound, a Reaver, a Warbringer Nemesis, and a mighty Warlord"
What do you mean "currently?" Is that a Warmaster I see in the distance?
Dire Wolf is a lot more likely. Especially now with 3 carapace options. Wish they would full size more of the arm and carapace mounts that exist in AT scale.
Alright, own up - which of you princeps are in league with these mad hatters?
"Currently Forge World make four sizes of Titan: a Warhound, a Reaver, a Warbringer Nemesis, and a mighty Warlord"
What do you mean "currently?" Is that a Warmaster I see in the distance?
Dire Wolf is a lot more likely. Especially now with 3 carapace options. Wish they would full size more of the arm and carapace mounts that exist in AT scale.
It'd be nice if it had as many torso weapon options.
"Currently Forge World make four sizes of Titan: a Warhound, a Reaver, a Warbringer Nemesis, and a mighty Warlord"
What do you mean "currently?" Is that a Warmaster I see in the distance?
"Currently Forge World make four sizes of Titan: a Warhound, a Reaver, a Warbringer Nemesis, and a mighty Warlord"
What do you mean "currently?" Is that a Warmaster I see in the distance?
chaos0xomega wrote: Suddenly I wish I had bought a BattleBling Mighty Warbreaker, for some reason.
For AT18, it's an almost game breaking piece of kit - though it does look very cool.
For the new "epic" it might just be usable...
Warmaster surprisingly functions but, sorta only works well in mirror match. But it's sorta the limit, I also feel they could have printed the same design a wee bit smaller, at least on the castle side, the body is ok but the castle seems out of scale.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
chaos0xomega wrote: I mean, its not like it has official rules anyway, if its "game breaking" its because the house rules are OP.
To their credit they did make rules and I believe like 2 levels of rules, one more streamlined and playable and one more on the powerful side if I'm not mistaken.
Alright, own up - which of you princeps are in league with these mad hatters?
"Currently Forge World make four sizes of Titan: a Warhound, a Reaver, a Warbringer Nemesis, and a mighty Warlord"
What do you mean "currently?" Is that a Warmaster I see in the distance?
There are some rumours that the Warhound would be moving to plastic, in which case it would be three.
Albertorius wrote: Must admit, I don't like the Mars pattern look for the Imperator. I'm much fonder of the classic look
Spoiler:
I'm very much the opposite. I find it looks goofy and proportionally awkward. I also find it disconcerting that the design language of the classic Imperator is so dramatically different from any of the others.
chaos0xomega wrote: I mean, its not like it has official rules anyway, if its "game breaking" its because the house rules are OP.
Does anyone remember the glory days of Titanicus when GW released award winning rules for the Acastus? Y'know, 4 Knights to a banner, 110 points fully tooled up and the Asterius cost exactly the same as the Porphyrion?
And note that I'm a very risk-averse Audax player.
But I think the plastic 
