Not just that, but also a +1 modifier at that range. Either melee weapons gain certain boosts as well, or as predicted, FW is once again on top of it with their best quality control.
Not having painted any 40k for 20 years (damn I feel old) can anyone point me in the right direction regarding what transfer sheet has the right size Imperialis skull icon used on his drawn plasma pistol? As it’s quite a frequently used symbol I thought it would be easy to find but apparently not.
Wonder if this is where FW will put Eldar Corsairs... If you steal from Imperial ships, you gotta sell to Imperial buyers and the Houses can't have direct contact with Xenos scum, so the Underhive it is to make a deal. Makes more sense than random Farseer and his two Fire Dragon mates running around the Underhive.
Also, I could see an Inquisitorial gang built more like Spyers or SWA Grey Knights to tap into the Inquisamunda thing...and produce stuff the main studio can't/won't.
Yodhrin wrote: Glad I chose not to buy Gang War now, in the event I actually get some games in next year I'll rely on someone else's copy and then buy the inevitable compilation later.
You probably won't be able to buy any compilation from GW. Or it will not be available until many years from now.
I guess I'll have to do the same thing for Necromunda as I did with Blood Bowl: Make a compilation document to clean up all the mess GW creates. In worst case, we'll see multiple rules, erratas, faqs and experimental addons spread out over multiple books, PDFs, White Dwarf articles, apps and even limited box sets.
Aeneades wrote: Not having painted any 40k for 20 years (damn I feel old) can anyone point me in the right direction regarding what transfer sheet has the right size Imperialis skull icon used on his drawn plasma pistol? As it’s quite a frequently used symbol I thought it would be easy to find but apparently not.
Aeneades wrote: Not having painted any 40k for 20 years (damn I feel old) can anyone point me in the right direction regarding what transfer sheet has the right size Imperialis skull icon used on his drawn plasma pistol? As it’s quite a frequently used symbol I thought it would be easy to find but apparently not.
BrookM wrote: Not just that, but also a +1 modifier at that range. Either melee weapons gain certain boosts as well, or as predicted, FW is once again on top of it with their best quality control.
Looking at it, it appears to only have a Long range. See how the short range is "-". Also, rather than a number for the Long Range, it has "E"; presumably this is some sort of code to give different melee weapons different reaches. This doesn't look like a typo - it looks like we're too ignorant at the moment to know what it means.
BrookM wrote: Not just that, but also a +1 modifier at that range. Either melee weapons gain certain boosts as well, or as predicted, FW is once again on top of it with their best quality control.
Looking at it, it appears to only have a Long range. See how the short range is "-". Also, rather than a number for the Long Range, it has "E"; presumably this is some sort of code to give different melee weapons different reaches. This doesn't look like a typo - it looks like we're too ignorant at the moment to know what it means.
The “E” means “Engaged” (I’m pretty certain of this, it was in one of the videos they did at warhammer world)
Chairman Aeon wrote: Wonder if this is where FW will put Eldar Corsairs... If you steal from Imperial ships, you gotta sell to Imperial buyers and the Houses can't have direct contact with Xenos scum, so the Underhive it is to make a deal. Makes more sense than random Farseer and his two Fire Dragon mates running around the Underhive.
Also, I could see an Inquisitorial gang built more like Spyers or SWA Grey Knights to tap into the Inquisamunda thing...and produce stuff the main studio can't/won't.
Andy H was pretty clear in the steam that they are concentrating on humans only - with maybe a bit of xenos tech as something special.
I'm gonna assume that the "E" ("Engaged"?) means it can only be used when engaged in melee, and that it's "Rng" and "Acc" stats don't really work in a table designed for ranged weapons
so basically, it doesn't have short or long range...it's a melee weapon, with +1 to hit, simple
Albertorius wrote: Can't help but notice that the miniature of Gor has a holstered handgun that's not in his card.
I can only imagine that a laspistol/stub pistol would always be an inferior choice - lower strength than a shotgun at range or his basic strength in cc? But yes - likey an error. Of course - if they'd added it someone would have pointed out its redundancy...
Edit: or it could be a second Plasma Pistol as the description says......
Chairman Aeon wrote: Wonder if this is where FW will put Eldar Corsairs... If you steal from Imperial ships, you gotta sell to Imperial buyers and the Houses can't have direct contact with Xenos scum, so the Underhive it is to make a deal. Makes more sense than random Farseer and his two Fire Dragon mates running around the Underhive.
Also, I could see an Inquisitorial gang built more like Spyers or SWA Grey Knights to tap into the Inquisamunda thing...and produce stuff the main studio can't/won't.
Very much this. I would love to have these guys in Necromunda.
I think the rule changes are how a model is activated, players alternate activating one model at a time, and they get two actions they can do. Plus, the introduction of Cool, Intelligence and Willpower can make for interesting rules mechanics.
This looks promising, indeed.
I've seen this in a demo game at youtube recently.
Wait, so you have to pay 235 credit to recruit this guy or he come free? because 235 is pretty insane for a 1-off fighter and most hired gun in oldmunda hire fee is their value/5.
Maybe the way we earn credits is changing? But yeah that is a one off hire if I am reading this correctly. I wouldn't base anything on the values shown in the old version of the game.
Ruin_In_The_Dark wrote: Maybe the way we earn credits is changing? But yeah that is a one off hire if I am reading this correctly. I wouldn't base anything on the values shown in the old version of the game.
No, according to this your gang income is not that high early on and 200 is a huge amount of money., they said 2 plasma pistol might take a while to aquire and each of them is 50 credit. https://war-of-sigmar.herokuapp.com/bloggings/2567
You probably need to play 5-10 game, or even more to aquire 200 spare credit to recruit him.
If that is the cost to hire him for just one fight, it seems pretty insane. It would almost certainly be more efficient to spend that money to hire and equip permanent gang members.
We have no idea how things work just yet. No idea how much we earn from games or territory or if under dog gangs can get hired help for free etc. It sounds expensive but we will see next week how feasible hiring the half horn is. He might be a end of campaign type of hired gun and having him too early could unbalance things.
In gors description hes listed with grenades, stiletto knives etc but his card has none. Andy hoare has confirmed the reason is for when you make your own bounty hunters
The print to order reprints of the Necromunda novels and graphic novels are now also available through GW itself, for those who don't have a credit card, or dislike BL's shipping.
Can anyone point me to a review or careful analysis by long-time Necromunda players? I loved the game back in the 90's, but I'm not sure I like what GW has done with it...I'd like to read more on the changes, and how the game plays now.
jmw23 wrote: Can anyone point me to a review or careful analysis by long-time Necromunda players? I loved the game back in the 90's, but I'm not sure I like what GW has done with it...I'd like to read more on the changes, and how the game plays now.
We would, but still nice the game is not out yet it’s hard to do. People with advance copies haven’t given much info out.
jmw23 wrote: Can anyone point me to a review or careful analysis by long-time Necromunda players? I loved the game back in the 90's, but I'm not sure I like what GW has done with it...I'd like to read more on the changes, and how the game plays now.
We would, but still nice the game is not out yet it’s hard to do. People with advance copies haven’t given much info out.
Yeah, that's what I figured. I think I'll hold off on pre-ordering and see what develops.
jmw23 wrote: Can anyone point me to a review or careful analysis by long-time Necromunda players? I loved the game back in the 90's, but I'm not sure I like what GW has done with it...I'd like to read more on the changes, and how the game plays now.
Noticed something annoying now with all the unboxing and review videos. Most of the people don't really know Necromunda from before this release! Almost none of the videoes out there are made by people who played the original. I would very much like to hear someone talk about it who actually played the original and can point out the differences, instead of having the perspective of someone new to the game.
jmw23 wrote: Can anyone point me to a review or careful analysis by long-time Necromunda players? I loved the game back in the 90's, but I'm not sure I like what GW has done with it...I'd like to read more on the changes, and how the game plays now.
Noticed something annoying now with all the unboxing and review videos. Most of the people don't really know Necromunda from before this release! Almost none of the videoes out there are made by people who played the original. I would very much like to hear someone talk about it who actually played the original and can point out the differences, instead of having the perspective of someone new to the game.
MWG did a fairly informed review after playing the introductory scenarios. I won't bore you with mechanical changes, anyone should know those by now. The big takeaway for them was that alternating activation does away with "keep everything pinned" as a viable strategy, making small elite gangs comparatively more powerful than large mook gangs.
jmw23 wrote: Can anyone point me to a review or careful analysis by long-time Necromunda players? I loved the game back in the 90's, but I'm not sure I like what GW has done with it...I'd like to read more on the changes, and how the game plays now.
Noticed something annoying now with all the unboxing and review videos. Most of the people don't really know Necromunda from before this release! Almost none of the videoes out there are made by people who played the original. I would very much like to hear someone talk about it who actually played the original and can point out the differences, instead of having the perspective of someone new to the game.
MWG did a fairly informed review after playing the introductory scenarios. I won't bore you with mechanical changes, anyone should know those by now. The big takeaway for them was that alternating activation does away with "keep everything pinned" as a viable strategy, making small elite gangs comparatively more powerful than large mook gangs.
That's rather interesting. I picked up the most recent White Dwarf (haven't done that since 1999), and had a mixed reaction after reading the articles. They wanted to streamline the post-game sequence because it took too long? Why? That was always everyone's favorite part of the game! It sounds like rules for hired guns aren't in the box? What!?! I've read gangers can't switch weapons...stuff like that gives me pause. I've got so many minis projects I'm juggling right now (Kingdom Death and so much more), that I can afford to wait and see what fellow veterans think before I buy.
MWG did a fairly informed review after playing the introductory scenarios. I won't bore you with mechanical changes, anyone should know those by now. The big takeaway for them was that alternating activation does away with "keep everything pinned" as a viable strategy, making small elite gangs comparatively more powerful than large mook gangs.
And that the Goliaths are totally broken or extremely under-costed; better strength, toughness, cool and armour with high strength weapons al for very little extra credits (and their lower move/initiative are stats of little importance especially on the small board). "The game dose not work" sums up the review.
MWG did a fairly informed review after playing the introductory scenarios. I won't bore you with mechanical changes, anyone should know those by now. The big takeaway for them was that alternating activation does away with "keep everything pinned" as a viable strategy, making small elite gangs comparatively more powerful than large mook gangs.
And that the Goliaths are totally broken or extremely under-costed; better strength, toughness, cool and armour with high strength weapons al for very little extra credits (and their lower move/initiative are stats of little importance especially on the small board). "The game dose not work" sums up the review.
But they stressed that this only applies to the boxed game in isolation, using zone mortalis tiles which heavily favour close range.
jmw23 wrote: Can anyone point me to a review or careful analysis by long-time Necromunda players? I loved the game back in the 90's, but I'm not sure I like what GW has done with it...I'd like to read more on the changes, and how the game plays now.
Noticed something annoying now with all the unboxing and review videos. Most of the people don't really know Necromunda from before this release! Almost none of the videoes out there are made by people who played the original. I would very much like to hear someone talk about it who actually played the original and can point out the differences, instead of having the perspective of someone new to the game.
MWG did a fairly informed review after playing the introductory scenarios. I won't bore you with mechanical changes, anyone should know those by now. The big takeaway for them was that alternating activation does away with "keep everything pinned" as a viable strategy, making small elite gangs comparatively more powerful than large mook gangs.
Informed is a pretty strong word for almost complete novices stating things.
Alternating activation doesn't do away with pinning as a viable strategy, nor does it mean small gangs are favoured.
I mean look at their analysis about the relative stats of Escher and Goliath champions. They said they get +1 S and +1 T and +1 save for 15 points. Completely neglecting the fact Escher get +1 M and BS.
Extra M is huge in Necromunda for melee and BS is basically the prime stat you can have. Especially for Champions that can be heavies.
Escher are fine. Let's not start a false meme about gang power based on random guys that film their thoughts.
The mwg "review" is laughable. The escher player was a whining not a clue ......
The escher pre made doesnt work in the 2d version. You need to ignore the pre made escher as they arent suited to 2d version of the game. In 3d games the escher pre mades would easily take the goliath ones. If the escher were better equipped for the 2d version its likely the game would play better.
Being honest though the 2d version is likely gonna done away with and its all gonna be focused on 3d
And Escher have dirt cheap las weapon. cheaper than price from the Trading post.. Altho I wish they went with the weapon that appear on the box cover instead. stub shotgun, autogun with scope, an energy revolver...
jmw23 wrote: Can anyone point me to a review or careful analysis by long-time Necromunda players? I loved the game back in the 90's, but I'm not sure I like what GW has done with it...I'd like to read more on the changes, and how the game plays now.
Noticed something annoying now with all the unboxing and review videos. Most of the people don't really know Necromunda from before this release! Almost none of the videoes out there are made by people who played the original. I would very much like to hear someone talk about it who actually played the original and can point out the differences, instead of having the perspective of someone new to the game.
MWG did a fairly informed review after playing the introductory scenarios. I won't bore you with mechanical changes, anyone should know those by now. The big takeaway for them was that alternating activation does away with "keep everything pinned" as a viable strategy, making small elite gangs comparatively more powerful than large mook gangs.
Informed is a pretty strong word for almost complete novices stating things.
Alternating activation doesn't do away with pinning as a viable strategy, nor does it mean small gangs are favoured.
I mean look at their analysis about the relative stats of Escher and Goliath champions. They said they get +1 S and +1 T and +1 save for 15 points. Completely neglecting the fact Escher get +1 M and BS.
Extra M is huge in Necromunda for melee and BS is basically the prime stat you can have. Especially for Champions that can be heavies.
Escher are fine. Let's not start a false meme about gang power based on random guys that film their thoughts.
Just watched the review of Necromunda Underhive on youtube. Fighting in close-confined tunnels definetely favours Goliaths with S4, T4 & AS5+. Often targets are in cover so that the superior BS of an Escher ganger is neglected. The board is also relatively small and therefore the faster movement stat for the female gang is not really important.
Also these guys are not wargaming noobs. They have started playing 40K in 3rd.
I preordered the box, campaign books and corresponding cards but I am suddenly on the fence about this purchase. Perhaps Necromunda Underhive needs an Overwatch mechanic.
I should preface this with the fact that I don't imagine I'll play more than a handful of games on the tiles, so I don't really care what the balance is like on them.
I don't really see what having played 40k for a long time has to do with anything. It's a completely different game.
How is superior BS negated by cover? Of course it's not, it's even more important then.
Good grief. BS is king, next is M. New players will figure this out pretty quickly
Chopstick wrote: There is overwatch, it's a skill, Andy Hoare explained he want more fast pace game instead of a slow, wait and bait one.
You can take aim to gain bonus hit before shooting.
I can understand the reasoning behind this but the gameplay does not work properly. The Goliath player stated himself that he just advanced heedless of any danger and it paid off. No thought or even a tiny bit of tactics required. He even killed more of his guys by friendly fire than the Escher player. Seriously, what the heck? First game was close and the other scenarios were massacres.
Chopstick wrote: There is overwatch, it's a skill, Andy Hoare explained he want more fast pace game instead of a slow, wait and bait one.
You can take aim to gain bonus hit before shooting.
I can understand the reasoning behind this but the gameplay does not work properly. The Goliath player stated himself that he just advanced heedless of any danger and it paid off. No thought or even a tiny bit of tactics required. He even killed more of his guys by friendly fire than the Escher player. Seriously, what the heck? First game was close and the other scenarios were massacres.
Seriously, this post is nonsense. You can not talk about the game play not working properly after watching those guys play the missions once.
Chopstick wrote: There is overwatch, it's a skill, Andy Hoare explained he want more fast pace game instead of a slow, wait and bait one.
You can take aim to gain bonus hit before shooting.
I can understand the reasoning behind this but the gameplay does not work properly. The Goliath player stated himself that he just advanced heedless of any danger and it paid off. No thought or even a tiny bit of tactics required. He even killed more of his guys by friendly fire than the Escher player. Seriously, what the heck? First game was close and the other scenarios were massacres.
Seriously, this post is nonsense. You can not talk about the game play not working properly after watching those guys play the missions once.
I am not having an argument with a total stranger on the interwebz. Consider yourself ignored.
lol over reaction or what, why are you on a discussion forum if you only want people to agree with you. I agree 1 set of games is not an accurate sample. I'm happy to just try for my self for the most part, if there are imbalances then they can be addressed.
Got caught up in the hype and pre-ordered the 'starter'.. After watching the MWG review I cancelled my order. Quote from Josh "Literally, one of the most boring games I've played". I'm not paying full price for a 'starter' with half the game and day 1 DLC to play the real Necromunda. Necromunda does not work in 2D, and without advancement it's just pushing generic models around a board. GW should have done something useful with that card and used it for 3D terrain, and included the full rules off the bat.
Zognob Gorgoff wrote: lol over reaction or what, why are you on a discussion forum if you only want people to agree with you. I agree 1 set of games is not an accurate sample. I'm happy to just try for my self for the most part, if there are imbalances then they can be addressed.
Then we agree to disagree. Five scenarios is enough imo to evaluate a game. I also play Freebooter´s Fate which is a skirmish game with selective activation. In this game you can use the Overwatch mechanic and it does not hinder the game in any way. Perhaps it is wise to try this out in Necromunda Underhive to deter Goliaths from using one-dimensional play.
tyrannosaurus wrote: Got caught up in the hype and pre-ordered the 'starter'.. After watching the MWG review I cancelled my order. Quote from Josh "Literally, one of the most boring games I've played". I'm not paying full price for a 'starter' with half the game and day 1 DLC to play the real Necromunda. Necromunda does not work in 2D, and without advancement it's just pushing generic models around a board. GW should have done something useful with that card and used it for 3D terrain, and included the full rules off the bat.
I'm thinking the opposite. What you saw was a 2d demo.
What we will have is advancements, injuries and all that jazz. The stuff we love from Necromunda, the backbone of specialist games like gorkamorka and mordheim. I have no worries this will be an awesome game, just not at start and especially not on 2d.
A couple of points about the Miniwargaming review. The review was based off a series of gameplay videos they did. They guy playing Escher had terrible luck with the dice throughout all the videos. It also seems they were not playing the charging rules right. (this is according to other people who watched the video.)
Also on warhammer live we have seen 4 games of Necromunda so far, two each of underhive and gang war. In both modes each side won once. Ironically the two gang war games were played against the owners of Miniwargaming.
Chikout wrote: A couple of points about the Miniwargaming review. The review was based off a series of gameplay videos they did. They guy playing Escher had terrible luck with the dice throughout all the videos. It also seems they were not playing the charging rules right. (this is according to other people who watched the video.)
Also on warhammer live we have seen 4 games of Necromunda so far, two each of underhive and gang war. In both modes each side won once. Ironically the two gang war games were played against the owners of Miniwargaming.
Afaik charging is M + D3 instead of simply doubling move allowance. This could be a serious mistake indeed.
Afaik charging is M + D3 instead of simply doubling move allowance. This could be a serious mistake indeed.
They were getting the distance right but apparently you cannot charge a model you cannot see (no charging round corners) . The goliath player did this a few times.
Afaik charging is M + D3 instead of simply doubling move allowance. This could be a serious mistake indeed.
They were getting the distance right but apparently you cannot charge a model you cannot see (no charging round corners) . The goliath player did this a few times.
And I always thought it is possible to smell an Escher´s perfume a mile away. Apparently not. Thanks for the info.
Afaik charging is M + D3 instead of simply doubling move allowance. This could be a serious mistake indeed.
They were getting the distance right but apparently you cannot charge a model you cannot see (no charging round corners) . The goliath player did this a few times.
And I always thought it is possible to smell an Escher´s perfume a mile away. Apparently not. Thanks for the info.
Oh, no, if you're close enough to smell her perfume, it’s probably already killed you; all that’s left now is to find out which of six interesting ways it’s going to do so:
Afaik charging is M + D3 instead of simply doubling move allowance. This could be a serious mistake indeed.
They were getting the distance right but apparently you cannot charge a model you cannot see (no charging round corners) . The goliath player did this a few times.
And I always thought it is possible to smell an Escher´s perfume a mile away. Apparently not. Thanks for the info.
Oh, no, if you're close enough to smell her perfume, it’s probably already killed you; all that’s left now is to find out which of six interesting ways it’s going to do so:
Hmm, that close? I didn´t know that Sly Marbo changed gender and joined House Escher.
Afaik charging is M + D3 instead of simply doubling move allowance. This could be a serious mistake indeed.
They were getting the distance right but apparently you cannot charge a model you cannot see (no charging round corners) . The goliath player did this a few times.
And I always thought it is possible to smell an Escher´s perfume a mile away. Apparently not. Thanks for the info.
Oh, no, if you're close enough to smell her perfume, it’s probably already killed you; all that’s left now is to find out which of six interesting ways it’s going to do so:
Hmm, that close? I didn´t know that Sly Marbo changed gender and joined House Escher.
Afaik charging is M + D3 instead of simply doubling move allowance. This could be a serious mistake indeed.
They were getting the distance right but apparently you cannot charge a model you cannot see (no charging round corners) . The goliath player did this a few times.
And I always thought it is possible to smell an Escher´s perfume a mile away. Apparently not. Thanks for the info.
Oh, no, if you're close enough to smell her perfume, it’s probably already killed you; all that’s left now is to find out which of six interesting ways it’s going to do so:
Hmm, that close? I didn´t know that Sly Marbo changed gender and joined House Escher.
Never wondered who his mother was
That´s a good one. I wonder how she looks like? Definitely an amazonian beauty with camo paint for make-up. I heard she is still daydreaming once in a while of her immaculate conception. Sly´s experience is measured by the length of his catachan knife. Well, his mother must surely wield a "browdsowd" by now.
Can't say that the MWG review was very interesting imo. Guys seems dissapointed that they changed the mechanics of the game, while I think it would have been very dissapointing if they had only done a re-release of the old rules. It remains to be seen if these changes were for the better, but I'm still fairly optimistic
Motograter wrote: Anyone not buying cos of josh saying its boring lol. Its not the games fault he's tactically clueless
Plus he was kinda consistently losing/bad dice rolls I think it left a bad taste in his mouth. I am glad they updated the rules as I felt the old rules seemed a tad clunky and dated. It seems like he was reaching for something to complain about. I'm certainly still getting the game. Its definitely a light version of Necromunda but the contents are great imo. When I feel like scaling things up I can simply do so when I'm ready and have the money for proper terrain.
Either way from the various reviews and local demos I have seen I should be able to sit tight and get a buyers remorse copy cheap in a week or so.
It strikes me as a schizophrenic release the core box to get new blood in is a slightly poor incomplete version of the game likely to put people off.
But for veterans and more experienced gamers you have to buy the core box of stuff you may not want or need to get the 1st half of the rulebook. Then you have to buy the 2nd half of the rule book so you can play the fullish game.
I am not sure whom the target graphic for this was beyond the person who's hobby is buying which GW was supposed to have moved beyond.
SeanDrake wrote: Either way from the various reviews and local demos I have seen I should be able to sit tight and get a buyers remorse copy cheap in a week or so.
It strikes me as a schizophrenic release the core box to get new blood in is a slightly poor incomplete version of the game likely to put people off.
But for veterans and more experienced gamers you have to buy the core box of stuff you may not want or need to get the 1st half of the rulebook. Then you have to buy the 2nd half of the rule book so you can play the fullish game.
I am not sure whom the target graphic for this was beyond the person who's hobby is buying which GW was supposed to have moved beyond.
It's a core box for the rules - which they made playable out of the box
Now every subsequent release will be building on to the proper 3D, full scale Necromunda.
I don't really see what's so odd about it, it's exactly the same as they have done with blood bowl.
It's pretty obvious that to enjoy necro you'll have to buy the gang war supplement. It's deplorable that they have separated the rules like this, but I don't think we can judge the game without it
I was originally going to pre order Necro, now I'm going to wait until my Delaque get some models.
I'm kinda pissed that you have to buy a supplement to get the feel of the original in 3d.
But all things considered....I don't really want to wait like a year before I buy it, so I'm kinda torn. I'll just take the $ I was going to use for Necro and just buy more 40k models.
I don't really see what's so odd about it, it's exactly the same as they have done with blood bowl.
Yes, it is exactly what they did in blood bowl. The so called "advanced" rules is really just the core rules in 99% of the games. The difference is that the two blood bowl teams in the starter is still incomplete 1 year after release. I hope they don't do the same with Necromunda.
the basic model works, but it's got a leaky soft top, underpowered engine and boring paint
but for the majority of buyers that's not a problem it will do just fine, give them a bit of fun to drive it now and then, most of the time it will be in the garage
but the enthusiast will want to get an uprated engine, then maybe that improved soft top that doesn't leak,
or even the really expensive hard top that is a nightmare to store when you're not using it,
and after all that maybe a custom paint job
yes the car will be better after all that but for most people the money it costs won't equal the extra fun it brings
New Necromunda is very similar the box they're selling is fine, and most new players will never miss what they've never seen, all of us old timers who fondly remember the old game are the car enthusiasts who are pre-disposed to want all the bells and whistles (and the old timers who didn't like it first time round aren't going to be wanting it now either)
sure it would please us to get that giant all in box (well maybe not the £300+ price tag and the fact that it still wouldn't have enough terrain) but it would be a really, really hard sell to anybody else and without new people coming in it becomes one more one and done release which so many here seem to hate
Also I cannot see how alternate activation would be worse than igoyougo if one gang is cc-oriented and the other is tooled for long range.
Will be interesting to see if Underhive is unbalanced - or if Escher just requires more skill and cunning.
Its not that they are unbalanced its the pre made load out that doesnt work in the 2d game. 3D version the escher would school the goliath pre mades. The escher pre designed gang is designed for the 3d version where as the goliath pre made gang is better for the 2d version.
Changing the escher load out would fix the issues but then fixing their kit for 2d likely means their 3d games go the other way. Likely why youll want to get an extra gang box so you can set gangs up for both
streetsamurai wrote: It's pretty obvious that to enjoy necro you'll have to buy the gang war supplement. It's deplorable that they have separated the rules like this, but I don't think we can judge the game without it
It's not deplorable in any way. Classic Necromunda fans are not the target demographic of the box game, and that is why they released Gang Wars and the models separately. If you had to buy the gakky box game to get the models and the rules for classic Necromunda, you would be bitching about that instead, because it still wouldn't be any cheaper, they LOVE to charge $150 for those boxed games.
So here's the solution: Wait a week for Dakka dakka does not condone piracy, thanks the actual PDF. It's not hard. GW rulebooks and codexes usually aren't worth paying for anyways, they're either half assed or so poorly edited that they have to FAQ the gak out of them.
Its not that they are unbalanced its the pre made load out that doesnt work in the 2d game. 3D version the escher would school the goliath pre mades. The escher pre designed gang is designed for the 3d version where as the goliath pre made gang is better for the 2d version.
Changing the escher load out would fix the issues but then fixing their kit for 2d likely means their 3d games go the other way. Likely why youll want to get an extra gang box so you can set gangs up for both
I've notice noticed a lot of discrepancies too after hearing everyone talk about how much the one miniwargaming guy hated it. An average Escher ganger is considerably cheaper than a Goliath one (due to their different stats), and because of that the premade warbands just tack on a bunch of extras to fill out the extra points the Eschers have, while in a lot of missions an Escher gang would outnumber the Goliaths. Not to mention the Eschers are stuck in a 2D environment where they can't make good use of their high initiative to climb, or even really take full advantage of their additional movement point. I really don't think it's surprising that the big hulking gang with deadly short ranged firearms and reinforced frontal armor works better in confined quarters than a lightly armored gang that can hardly make use of their mobility. I imagine different gangs will excel in different types of games I think Goliaths and Cawdor (lots of flame weapons) will be very strong in tunnel fights, where Escher, Van Saar, and Delaque will excel in 3D battles where they can make more use of their longer ranged weapons and better shooting/mobility. I'm guessing Orlocks will be the all rounder who will be the middle ground in both types of play.
streetsamurai wrote: It's pretty obvious that to enjoy necro you'll have to buy the gang war supplement. It's deplorable that they have separated the rules like this, but I don't think we can judge the game without it
It's not deplorable in any way. Classic Necromunda fans are not the target demographic of the box game, and that is why they released Gang Wars and the models separately. If you had to buy the gakky box game to get the models and the rules for classic Necromunda, you would be bitching about that instead, because it still wouldn't be any cheaper, they LOVE to charge $150 for those boxed games.
So here's the solution: Wait a week for the main rulebook to be distributed via scans or the actual PDF. It's not hard. GW rulebooks and codexes usually aren't worth paying for anyways, they're either half assed or so poorly edited that they have to FAQ the gak out of them.
First of all, old necro fans, or more precisely, old GW fans, are clearly one of the target demographic of this game. Hell the first hired guns they release is a redesign from a model from rogue trader. And even if it wasn't the case, not putting the campaign rules in the main rb is bad for attracting new players, since necro is not much of a game without them. Secondly unless I missed something, there's no indication that GW will release the main rules for free, or even separately from the main game (AFAIK, they haven't done so for BB), so the secnd half of your argument doesn't really make senses.
As a long time Escher player those MWG campaign videos were heartbreaking, to see them treated so poorly by the oaf playing them. He didn't have a clue about their strengths, their weaknesses or more importantly the rules
streetsamurai wrote: It's pretty obvious that to enjoy necro you'll have to buy the gang war supplement. It's deplorable that they have separated the rules like this, but I don't think we can judge the game without it
It's not deplorable in any way. Classic Necromunda fans are not the target demographic of the box game, and that is why they released Gang Wars and the models separately. If you had to buy the gakky box game to get the models and the rules for classic Necromunda, you would be bitching about that instead, because it still wouldn't be any cheaper, they LOVE to charge $150 for those boxed games.
So here's the solution: Wait a week for the Do not advocate for piracy on this website, thank you actual PDF. It's not hard. GW rulebooks and codexes usually aren't worth paying for anyways, they're either half assed or so poorly edited that they have to FAQ the gak out of them.
First of all, old necro fans, or more precisely, old GW fans, are clearly one of the target demographic of this game. Hell the first hired guns they release is a redesign from a model from rogue trader. And even if it wasn't the case, not putting the campaign rules in the main rb is bad for attracting new players, since necro is not much of a game without them. Secondly unless I missed something, there's no indication that GW will release the main rules for free, or even separately from the main game (AFAIK, they haven't done so for BB), so the secnd half of your argument doesn't really make senses.
You're not the demographic of the boxed game. That's for newcomers/board game fans.
Do not advocate for piracy on this website, thank you I straight up said GW books aren't really worth paying for.
Necromunda needed a new edition, and I'm not opposed to some radical changes. Old rules had some weapons so good that you were crazy not to take them. I used to kit my gangers with chains or axes to be different, but we all knew swords or anything with a parry were king. Lasguns were cheap, reliable, and had a -1 armor save. Fantastic deal, compared to the other basic weapons. Some skills were awful. Others too good, etc.
Beyond rules tweaks, the fundamental nature of the I Go, You Go system feels clunky and old compared to modern games like Infinity. So, a change isn't necessarily a bad thing. What galls me are some of the weird choices they seem to have made. I understand that the only two gangs with rules at release are Goliath and Escher. Who made that choice? Why?
Others have noted the grasping way GW is releasing the rules piecemeal. I don't care for it either. Necromunda isn't Necromunda without a robust campaign system. I'm honestly not sure it'll have that from early reviews, because those rules aren't even in the box. I was going to say I can't believe GW is fumbling the re-release of such a classic game, but after the way they butchered their new version of Man o' War some years back, I actually can.
streetsamurai wrote: It's pretty obvious that to enjoy necro you'll have to buy the gang war supplement. It's deplorable that they have separated the rules like this, but I don't think we can judge the game without it
It's not deplorable in any way. Classic Necromunda fans are not the target demographic of the box game, and that is why they released Gang Wars and the models separately. If you had to buy the gakky box game to get the models and the rules for classic Necromunda, you would be bitching about that instead, because it still wouldn't be any cheaper, they LOVE to charge $150 for those boxed games.
So here's the solution: Wait a week for the main rulebook to be distributed via scans or the actual PDF. It's not hard. GW rulebooks and codexes usually aren't worth paying for anyways, they're either half assed or so poorly edited that they have to FAQ the gak out of them.
First of all, old necro fans, or more precisely, old GW fans, are clearly one of the target demographic of this game. Hell the first hired guns they release is a redesign from a model from rogue trader. And even if it wasn't the case, not putting the campaign rules in the main rb is bad for attracting new players, since necro is not much of a game without them. Secondly unless I missed something, there's no indication that GW will release the main rules for free, or even separately from the main game (AFAIK, they haven't done so for BB), so the secnd half of your argument doesn't really make senses.
You're not the demographic of the boxed game. That's for newcomers/board game fans.
Also I'm telling you to pirate the main rulebook, not sure how that wasn't clear when I straight up said GW books aren't really worth paying for.
And piracy is frowned on here on Dakkadakka. If you are going to then do it but don’t advertise here.
streetsamurai wrote: It's pretty obvious that to enjoy necro you'll have to buy the gang war supplement. It's deplorable that they have separated the rules like this, but I don't think we can judge the game without it
It's not deplorable in any way. Classic Necromunda fans are not the target demographic of the box game, and that is why they released Gang Wars and the models separately. If you had to buy the gakky box game to get the models and the rules for classic Necromunda, you would be bitching about that instead, because it still wouldn't be any cheaper, they LOVE to charge $150 for those boxed games.
So here's the solution: Wait a week for the main rulebook to be distributed via scans or the actual PDF. It's not hard. GW rulebooks and codexes usually aren't worth paying for anyways, they're either half assed or so poorly edited that they have to FAQ the gak out of them.
First of all, old necro fans, or more precisely, old GW fans, are clearly one of the target demographic of this game. Hell the first hired guns they release is a redesign from a model from rogue trader. And even if it wasn't the case, not putting the campaign rules in the main rb is bad for attracting new players, since necro is not much of a game without them. Secondly unless I missed something, there's no indication that GW will release the main rules for free, or even separately from the main game (AFAIK, they haven't done so for BB), so the secnd half of your argument doesn't really make senses.
You're not the demographic of the boxed game. That's for newcomers/board game fans.
Also I'm telling you to pirate the main rulebook, not sure how that wasn't clear when I straight up said GW books aren't really worth paying for.
So the decision to not include the campaign rules in the mainbook is not deplorable cause you can pirate them?
Cant say I understand you logic here
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jmw23 wrote: Necromunda needed a new edition, and I'm not opposed to some radical changes. Old rules had some weapons so good that you were crazy not to take them. I used to kit my gangers with chains or axes to be different, but we all knew swords or anything with a parry were king. Lasguns were cheap, reliable, and had a -1 armor save. Fantastic deal, compared to the other basic weapons. Some skills were awful. Others too good, etc.
Beyond rules tweaks, the fundamental nature of the I Go, You Go system feels clunky and old compared to modern games like Infinity. So, a change isn't necessarily a bad thing. What galls me are some of the weird choices they seem to have made. I understand that the only two gangs with rules at release are Goliath and Escher. Who made that choice? Why?
Others have noted the grasping way GW is releasing the rules piecemeal. I don't care for it either. Necromunda isn't Necromunda without a robust campaign system. I'm honestly not sure it'll have that from early reviews, because those rules aren't even in the box. I was going to say I can't believe GW is fumbling the re-release of such a classic game, but after the way they butchered their new version of Man o' War some years back, I actually can.
Agree with you that having only two gangs at release seems like a huge blunder on GW part.
The new kit is a new game for fresh bewb juves who have never played before.
Honestly, if your an already experienced player, like most of us, the next supplement is for you. Remember when I was talking before when Armageddon came out? THOSE are the sets I was alluding to.
If you have the old gangers, they are going to square you away with rules, stats, etc. Online, the gang sheets are already available, they said they are going to include the gangs stats and info later on.
Hope to see Bonnie Anderson make a new appearance. I missed her the first time around.
Hope to see old Kal Jerico, as well as the rest of the old standards for special characters. The Redeemer is another one that comes to mind.
They are going to be including snack cards, like they have in Blood Bowl.
If you are a brand new player, it is a good time to get into Necromunda, but make sure you are aware that it is not a board game, the basic set is a training wheels set. to get you used to the basic and advanced rules without a gak load of terrain to worry about, when you already have 2 gangs and a sewer fight to worry about.
THOSE gangs in the boxed set are training wheels. They have a figure, they get a named figure stat card, and you ready to go. As to the rest of us, you have your old stuff, your all set. They will be selling a rulebook stand alone, as well, you will hear more about that later next month.
As for additional material, We are all good. there's more then you can shake a stick at online. One guy said Pirate it- I say you don't have to, there is plenty of added material out there that you will survive to make it to gang leader.
Please make sure you don't advocate for piracy on dakka, it has cropped up a few times in this thread. Further instances of this will lead to a warning. Thank you.
Grot 6 wrote: The new kit is a new game for fresh bewb juves who have never played before.
Honestly, if your an already experienced player, like most of us, the next supplement is for you. Remember when I was talking before when Armageddon came out? THOSE are the sets I was alluding to.
If you have the old gangers, they are going to square you away with rules, stats, etc. Online, the gang sheets are already available, they said they are going to include the gangs stats and info later on.
Hope to see Bonnie Anderson make a new appearance. I missed her the first time around.
Hope to see old Kal Jerico, as well as the rest of the old standards for special characters. The Redeemer is another one that comes to mind.
They are going to be including snack cards, like they have in Blood Bowl.
If you are a brand new player, it is a good time to get into Necromunda, but make sure you are aware that it is not a board game, the basic set is a training wheels set. to get you used to the basic and advanced rules without a gak load of terrain to worry about, when you already have 2 gangs and a sewer fight to worry about.
THOSE gangs in the boxed set are training wheels. They have a figure, they get a named figure stat card, and you ready to go. As to the rest of us, you have your old stuff, your all set. They will be selling a rulebook stand alone, as well, you will hear more about that later next month.
As for additional material, We are all good. there's more then you can shake a stick at online. One guy said Pirate it- I say you don't have to, there is plenty of added material out there that you will survive to make it to gang leader.
And once again, I'm the guy saying you don't have to pirate it. there is so much material out there that you will have more then enough that you don't have to.
a couple of good old school standards-
Grot Wars. Grot Wars 2 The Orks strike Back, Grot Wars 3 Return of the Arbites.
The link you gave clearly state that you need the rulebook in the boxed set to use gang war, and don't mention anything about theses rules being available separately
The link you gave clearly state that you need the rulebook in the boxed set to use gang war, and don't mention anything about theses rules being available separately
If you are talking about the main rulebook by itself, you have to wait. The info about that rule book by itself came from a discussion, you get to hear about it later through official channels.
I can't wait (Apart from Warhammer fantasy etc, Necromunda is one of the games that got me hooked in wargaming tbh, though was so long ago). I bought Underhive and Gangwar for nostalgia.
I think the MWG crew showed exactly what I expected from Underhive. It's for new players and is just an 'add-in', learn some basic rules. GW tried to translate a 3d game to 2d and it ended up looking pretty bland (they can't balance a 3d game for 2d play effectively).
The test is gang war. If it has whacked game play and a crap leveling system and cant really spend money, upgrade weaps, buy gangers between games etc etc. Then I wont buy anymore (unless the models look good of course). That is what I am hoping for a great skirmish/campaign leveler game.
That set they played with was straight out of the box level of play- You can count on the game being even half of what they showed, it will play for a good time.
The two gangs in that main set are for you to go on ahead and get stuck in with. Us old farts will remember Overwatch. THAT becomes problematic if you have most of your gang waiting in the rafters waiting, while the other guy is maneuvering around and taking up position as they overload a ganger one by one.
The two guys playing in those MWG videos were on par from what I expect for a new game fresh out of the box. Proof of the pudding will be in the adds of what will be allowed for the add on legacy gangs, and hired guns.
This game is great for skirmish level. Its best when you start out with a up and coming gang with hand to hand, and some medium range weapons. The ganger with the sniper rifle was usually the one to have it explode on him when he got a shot off, first round, or a guy falls off the third level when a grenade goes off when he misthrows it.
My idea load outs, a couple for guys with shotguns, a couple with a pistol/ stub gun, and hand to hand weapons like a axe or a sword, and a heavy who can be a mobile fire platform with a heavy stubber.
Golaiths and Eschers are the best extremes of hand to hand. Goliaths are Tanks, the Eschers are Scrappers.
I'll be picking up a couple of the boxes for laughs. I know that these parts are going to come in handy with mixing and matching.
Rolsheen wrote: As a long time Escher player those MWG campaign videos were heartbreaking, to see them treated so poorly by the oaf playing them. He didn't have a clue about their strengths, their weaknesses or more importantly the rules
To be fair they do mention that the "review" only applies to the box set and not the Gang War expansion, so they're playing it straight out of the box and talking strictly about the 2D version that no one asked for, instead of the 3D game that almost literally everyone is going to be playing instead. But, as you can see in this thread, it's already influenced some people to the point where they're canceling pre-orders and having second thoughts about Necromunda altogether, regardless of what changes Gang War brings with it.
This kinda thing is why GW used to send entities like MWG C&D orders and threats before, instead of pre-release copies of the games to unbox and show off. I don't want GW to go back to its "old ways" and I feel like stuff like this is gonna put them off. Not that I want MWG or any other group to shill for them, I want an honest review of the game, but if people aren't gonna wait and see the whole picture and base their entire opinion on some salty guy on a YouTube channel who even admitted to rolling poorly, making mistakes or not playing the faction the "right" way, then I can see GW deciding it wasn't worth it all along and that working with the community is going to hurt their sales more than it helps.
Rolsheen wrote: As a long time Escher player those MWG campaign videos were heartbreaking, to see them treated so poorly by the oaf playing them. He didn't have a clue about their strengths, their weaknesses or more importantly the rules
To be fair they do mention that the "review" only applies to the box set and not the Gang War expansion, so they're playing it straight out of the box and talking strictly about the 2D version that no one asked for, instead of the 3D game that almost literally everyone is going to be playing instead. But, as you can see in this thread, it's already influenced some people to the point where they're canceling pre-orders and having second thoughts about Necromunda altogether, regardless of what changes Gang War brings with it.
This kinda thing is why GW used to send entities like MWG C&D orders and threats before, instead of pre-release copies of the games to unbox and show off. I don't want GW to go back to its "old ways" and I feel like stuff like this is gonna put them off. Not that I want MWG or any other group to shill for them, I want an honest review of the game, but if people aren't gonna wait and see the whole picture and base their entire opinion on some salty guy on a YouTube channel who even admitted to rolling poorly, making mistakes or not playing the faction the "right" way, then I can see GW deciding it wasn't worth it all along and that working with the community is going to hurt their sales more than it helps.
I don't think GW has the option to going back to being closed off.
Honestly, I think the various reviews from MWG have prompted me to buy more GW products than I wanted to (or my wife wanted me to). As I stated before I think their assessment is fair (but obviously harsher than norm because someone was salty after losing so much). Even with the few mistakes and some tactical flaws you can see the 2d game for these 2 gangs is gunna be meh. Would it put me off buying? No, because I know Gangwar is what I am waiting for. Will it put new players off maybe. Have to wait to see the Gangwar reviews that various companies do to see how many it draws in (or not).
I think honest reviews gives more to the community than being a sycophant because they give you stuff to review. May not agree with the content but it does give gameplay for people to assess (don't have to heed the opinions) and draw their own conclusions. Companies/Channels like MWG, Tabletop Tactics etc do more for marketing around my known groups than GW does itself tbh. So I think they are a plus and I hope continue to be so.
As my general rule o thumb I don't take thing from MWG seriously, or as my "buy beware". Although it's nice to have different opinions.
But It's mainly GW's fault for not making their own proper Battle Report video , I heard the one from their Twitch stream was pretty bad, and it also locked behind a paywall. The BR from WD was okay. All they had to do is make a series of speed up/quick summary of a BR in a campaig on their main youtube channel, added some special effect, overlay and commentary. They have a BR for DW:Overkill before, but it's too long and lack a proper commentary.
GW as a whole is still pretty outdated and try to keep up with the modern trend, they seem to heavily underestimate the "youtube" department for publicity. Many of the video on their youtube only publish after their FB one. Also the channel have comment disabled because.......the one who run it is sensitive to negative comment? or they don't want to be annoyed by nortifications(lol?!)
Give the game a chance.
For a judgement, one needs to look into the 3D expansion and the campaign system.
Umm no.
Many people have justified the seperate book containing the 3d and campaign rules because the box set is designed as a gateway box. Well in the same vein the box set by itself needs to stand up as a stand alone game and should be reviewed as such.
Give the game a chance.
For a judgement, one needs to look into the 3D expansion and the campaign system.
Umm no.
Many people have justified the seperate book containing the 3d and campaign rules because the box set is designed as a gateway box. Well in the same vein the box set by itself needs to stand up as a stand alone game and should be reviewed as such.
From what I've seen of the preview copy GW had out at their local store and games I've watched online, I'm willing to say it's looking good. You do have the rules for building a custom gang in the core book. You can also very easily play pick up games where you agree on a points limit and build a gang to play against a friend like you would in 40k/aos.
If you want to play a campaign, you will need the gang war book. I think the 2D necromunda as a pick up game stands up pretty well and I'm looking foreword to play it with my friends.
MangoMadness wrote: Many people have justified the seperate book containing the 3d and campaign rules because the box set is designed as a gateway box. Well in the same vein the box set by itself needs to stand up as a stand alone game and should be reviewed as such.
Why? Do we judge this or this as standalone items?
MangoMadness wrote: Many people have justified the seperate book containing the 3d and campaign rules because the box set is designed as a gateway box. Well in the same vein the box set by itself needs to stand up as a stand alone game and should be reviewed as such.
Why? Do we judge this or this as standalone items?
Yes. If they were gak, people starting in the hobby wouldn't continue.
Fun as this is, I have a question for anyone who's had a chance to ruffle through a copy of the rulebook - in the fluff section, do we finally get some explicit size measurements for Hive Primus? Back in the days of Confrontation it was depicted as being as much as 30 miles wide at the base, while the vertical scale-marked cross section in later versions of Necromunda(it was in the reissue/LRB from the early oughts, not sure if it was in the physical copy) could only really be five or six miles across at ground level.
Trying to draw a map for my own "Gloomsea" underhive/sump setting but it's a bit difficult when I can't figure out what size to make the features so that it fits comfortably within the boundaries of the hive.
I’m new to the game - I played it a little back in the 90s but never bought into it, 40k was taking all my monies back then. I’ve always wanted to get into it as I love the fluff and setting, so I’ve bought in big - ordered the boxed set and Gang War book and a heap of Sector Mechanicus terrain for when I make the upgrade to 3D playing. Quick question, as I’m thinking of making some boards, what is a standard game’s play area size? 3x3 or is 4x4 better?
Caliginous wrote: I’m new to the game - I played it a little back in the 90s but never bought into it, 40k was taking all my monies back then. I’ve always wanted to get into it as I love the fluff and setting, so I’ve bought in big - ordered the boxed set and Gang War book and a heap of Sector Mechanicus terrain for when I make the upgrade to 3D playing. Quick question, as I’m thinking of making some boards, what is a standard game’s play area size? 3x3 or is 4x4 better?
4x4 is what the example table set up in the gang war book is (and 4x4 was always the table size in the original. That's the size you're going to want really.
Yodhrin wrote: Fun as this is, I have a question for anyone who's had a chance to ruffle through a copy of the rulebook - in the fluff section, do we finally get some explicit size measurements for Hive Primus? Back in the days of Confrontation it was depicted as being as much as 30 miles wide at the base, while the vertical scale-marked cross section in later versions of Necromunda(it was in the reissue/LRB from the early oughts, not sure if it was in the physical copy) could only really be five or six miles across at ground level.
Trying to draw a map for my own "Gloomsea" underhive/sump setting but it's a bit difficult when I can't figure out what size to make the features so that it fits comfortably within the boundaries of the hive.
I always assumed that that diagram had an exaggerated vertical scale, so it fitted onto a page better.
Why not assume the lower figure, and then if it turns out it's greater than that, you can add extra unexplored areas. "Only" 75 square miles should be enough for a campaign, I would think?
Yodhrin wrote: Fun as this is, I have a question for anyone who's had a chance to ruffle through a copy of the rulebook - in the fluff section, do we finally get some explicit size measurements for Hive Primus? Back in the days of Confrontation it was depicted as being as much as 30 miles wide at the base, while the vertical scale-marked cross section in later versions of Necromunda(it was in the reissue/LRB from the early oughts, not sure if it was in the physical copy) could only really be five or six miles across at ground level.
Trying to draw a map for my own "Gloomsea" underhive/sump setting but it's a bit difficult when I can't figure out what size to make the features so that it fits comfortably within the boundaries of the hive.
I always assumed that that diagram had an exaggerated vertical scale, so it fitted onto a page better.
Why not assume the lower figure, and then if it turns out it's greater than that, you can add extra unexplored areas. "Only" 75 square miles should be enough for a campaign, I would think?
There is also continuous urban ruins beneath the Ash wastes which cover the entire surface of the planet, so if the area is below the Ash wastes, you could frankly make it as big as you like. This could also explain the differences- the Hive is 5-6 miles wide where it enters the Ash wastes, but 30 miles wide at bedrock or something.
I just went searching to see if the description of hive primus has measurements (don't think it does) but spotted that they talk about Brat Gangs and them having jetbikes in the description of hive Trazior. Those are going to be fun when they get to them
4x4 is what the example table set up in the gang war book is (and 4x4 was always the table size in the original. That's the size you're going to want really.
I can understand complaints about DLC day one. But I also can see grand scheme from GW. First of all: boxed game is a gateway game - good starting point. Real life example from another forum - mostly for board games. Lot of players is looking at this game as a board game, not skirmish game. GW did one thing (judge yourself - good or bad) they released Swadowspire first. Whats the connection? Shadowspire breaks glass wall between board games and skirmish/battle systems. Many people bought it, though they would never buy any other game from GW - as it is battle game.
And it is the same with Necro - there is a bunch of people who would never consider buying it. They were scared of Armageddon, because of plastic terrain. But give them 'board' - even if it is still game of inches - and they will jump into it. They might get Gang War book, but it is not insta buy for them.
So, we - lets say advanced players - might not be happy. We can complain about separate book, order of the gangs release. But this is not an issue for a new players and there is a few of them that are interested in that game.
Someone at GW had a plan. And it is working. There is a bunch of new players coming. Which in general is a good thing.
The day 1 DLC and the fact this isn't anything like the Necromunda I know and love has led me to cancel my pre-order. I'm not saying they have to keep things exactly the same as the old game but it's impossible for me to justify dropiing almost £100 on the boxed game and the Gang War book without sufficient confidence the game will be fun going forwards.
The MWG video wasn't exactly brilliant, but this is how GW chose to present this game to the world, so defending them by saying "it's MWG, don't take them seriously" doesn't really help. This is currently the best source of publically available info on how the game plays and, to me, it doesn't look great.
I think we will be better suited to judge once we know the exact contents of gang war really. Yeah it sucks that its 2D but then I don't have the cash for the game, full campaign rules and 4ft square of expensive plastic terrain. Things are a lot more expensive now than in the 90s so I don't hold it against them doing things this way. Plus any necromunda vet worth his salt will have a copy of the previous rules (they were free for a long time) and the game has managed to survive without any support at all so anything the player base doesn't like will be ironed out sooner or later with the home rules necromunda players have been using since the end of specialist games support. I am just happy to have new models, it was the price of the models on ebay etc that kept me from playing. All in all I remain optimistic.
W1ntermute wrote: I can understand complaints about DLC day one. But I also can see grand scheme from GW. First of all: boxed game is a gateway game - good starting point. Real life example from another forum - mostly for board games. Lot of players is looking at this game as a board game, not skirmish game. GW did one thing (judge yourself - good or bad) they released Swadowspire first. Whats the connection? Shadowspire breaks glass wall between board games and skirmish/battle systems. Many people bought it, though they would never buy any other game from GW - as it is battle game.
And it is the same with Necro - there is a bunch of people who would never consider buying it. They were scared of Armageddon, because of plastic terrain. But give them 'board' - even if it is still game of inches - and they will jump into it. They might get Gang War book, but it is not insta buy for them.
So, we - lets say advanced players - might not be happy. We can complain about separate book, order of the gangs release. But this is not an issue for a new players and there is a few of them that are interested in that game.
Someone at GW had a plan. And it is working. There is a bunch of new players coming. Which in general is a good thing.
I sincerly doubt a lot of boardgamers will buy necro.
W1ntermute wrote: I can understand complaints about DLC day one. But I also can see grand scheme from GW. First of all: boxed game is a gateway game - good starting point. Real life example from another forum - mostly for board games. Lot of players is looking at this game as a board game, not skirmish game. GW did one thing (judge yourself - good or bad) they released Swadowspire first. Whats the connection? Shadowspire breaks glass wall between board games and skirmish/battle systems. Many people bought it, though they would never buy any other game from GW - as it is battle game.
And it is the same with Necro - there is a bunch of people who would never consider buying it. They were scared of Armageddon, because of plastic terrain. But give them 'board' - even if it is still game of inches - and they will jump into it. They might get Gang War book, but it is not insta buy for them.
So, we - lets say advanced players - might not be happy. We can complain about separate book, order of the gangs release. But this is not an issue for a new players and there is a few of them that are interested in that game.
Someone at GW had a plan. And it is working. There is a bunch of new players coming. Which in general is a good thing.
I sincerly doubt a lot of boardgamers will buy necro.
Lot of boardgamers bought Shadowspire.
Just an obserwation. I don't have to be right. But new Necromunda is similar to many sci fi dungeon crawlers - Level7, Seven sins, Doom and others: You have tiles as other games, customized dices - don't see the point - single d6 was working well. This is GW following the trend for other games.
Only one difference: you have to glue the miniatures (no snap fit). And this is true test.
Slipspace wrote: The day 1 DLC and the fact this isn't anything like the Necromunda I know and love has led me to cancel my pre-order. I'm not saying they have to keep things exactly the same as the old game but it's impossible for me to justify dropiing almost £100 on the boxed game and the Gang War book without sufficient confidence the game will be fun going forwards.
The MWG video wasn't exactly brilliant, but this is how GW chose to present this game to the world, so defending them by saying "it's MWG, don't take them seriously" doesn't really help. This is currently the best source of publically available info on how the game plays and, to me, it doesn't look great.
Truthfully?
MWG videos, on their own when they have nobody making sure they are playing things right, are very hit or miss. This is a common critique of their stuff. The video of them playing Necromunda with the actual designers of the game showed that MWG didn't really know what they were doing or sit down and read the rules.
I wouldn't be surprised to see MWG not getting a preview copy of another game because of that.
The activation has changed and the gangs have been given a bit more divergence. Apart from that it's basically the same game with a lick of paint.
Because the rules are different. For me, they're so different it's basically a different game. The Necromunda rules to me encompass everything from the in-game rules to the various post-battle campaign sequences. This new version just doesn't have what I'm looking for.
Vorian wrote:
We know basically every rule, what more information are you looking for?
I'm not looking for more info. I have as much as I need at this point.
Kanluwen wrote:
Slipspace wrote: The day 1 DLC and the fact this isn't anything like the Necromunda I know and love has led me to cancel my pre-order. I'm not saying they have to keep things exactly the same as the old game but it's impossible for me to justify dropiing almost £100 on the boxed game and the Gang War book without sufficient confidence the game will be fun going forwards.
The MWG video wasn't exactly brilliant, but this is how GW chose to present this game to the world, so defending them by saying "it's MWG, don't take them seriously" doesn't really help. This is currently the best source of publically available info on how the game plays and, to me, it doesn't look great.
Truthfully?
MWG videos, on their own when they have nobody making sure they are playing things right, are very hit or miss. This is a common critique of their stuff. The video of them playing Necromunda with the actual designers of the game showed that MWG didn't really know what they were doing or sit down and read the rules.
I wouldn't be surprised to see MWG not getting a preview copy of another game because of that.
You seem to be under the impression I've based my decision on the MWG review alone. I haven't. There are other factors as well (which I mentioned and which you quoted, BTW) but seeing the rules in action and getting a better look at the contents of the box and what to expect from the base game, I was put off. This is a purchase of almost £100 so I'll base my decision on whatever info GW releases, in whatever format they choose. I know what MWG's reputation is - they're X-Wing videos were some of the most unintentionally funny gaming videos I've ever seen - but this is what I have to go on.
I'm not saying people who buy it are idiots, I'm simply saying I don't think it's what I want it to be and GW haven't done a good enough job to persuade me to take the plunge at the price they're asking. If the Gang War rules were included in the base price of the game I would have been much more willing to take the risk.
You're free to not buy it or like the changes of course. My issue was that you said it "isn't anything like the Necromunda I know", which is a bit of an exaggeration.
It's very recognisable as Necromunda. Activations are totally different, melee is totally different (to make the alternate activations work) - almost everything else is slightly changed or identical.
Again, I'm not saying you have to like all or any of the changes - I certainly won't be playing fixed load outs for example - but it's certainly a modification of the old.
W1ntermute wrote: I can understand complaints about DLC day one. But I also can see grand scheme from GW. First of all: boxed game is a gateway game - good starting point. Real life example from another forum - mostly for board games. Lot of players is looking at this game as a board game, not skirmish game. GW did one thing (judge yourself - good or bad) they released Swadowspire first. Whats the connection? Shadowspire breaks glass wall between board games and skirmish/battle systems. Many people bought it, though they would never buy any other game from GW - as it is battle game.
And it is the same with Necro - there is a bunch of people who would never consider buying it. They were scared of Armageddon, because of plastic terrain. But give them 'board' - even if it is still game of inches - and they will jump into it. They might get Gang War book, but it is not insta buy for them.
So, we - lets say advanced players - might not be happy. We can complain about separate book, order of the gangs release. But this is not an issue for a new players and there is a few of them that are interested in that game.
Someone at GW had a plan. And it is working. There is a bunch of new players coming. Which in general is a good thing.
I sincerly doubt a lot of boardgamers will buy necro.
Lot of boardgamers bought Shadowspire.
Just an obserwation. I don't have to be right. But new Necromunda is similar to many sci fi dungeon crawlers - Level7, Seven sins, Doom and others: You have tiles as other games, customized dices - don't see the point - single d6 was working well. This is GW following the trend for other games.
Only one difference: you have to glue the miniatures (no snap fit). And this is true test.
The snap bit thing is huge, that is literally the primary barrier for many, many board gamers, do they need to buy glue and carefully read instructions to put the models together? Also the price point is double that of Sharespire, $120 is a bit out of the range of impulse buy IMO.
Wow! A lot of complaining about a game they don't even have......so standard internet usage. I counted three negatives and two or three more bandwagon fans who cancelled their order.
Sounds brilliant to cancel something based on pretty much nothing. I would say that maybe some of you shouldn't have made the order until you could actually afford it.
Da-Rock wrote: Wow! A lot of complaining about a game they don't even have......so standard internet usage. I counted three negatives and two or three more bandwagon fans who cancelled their order.
Sounds brilliant to cancel something based on pretty much nothing. I would say that maybe some of you shouldn't have made the order until you could actually afford it.
I don't even know what a bandwagon fan is supposed to be in this instance...
Presuming this is at least partially aimed at me, I would counter by pointing out I never said it was a bad game, just not the game I was expecting. This is based on what I've seen so far. If that's "pretty much nothing" it's hardly my fault as a customer that GW haven't provided much info.
While we're brining up "standard internet usage" your comment about being able to afford it is a nicely presumptuous case of pot and kettle. I can afford the game quite easily, thank you very much, I just don't think there is enough value in it for me at his point in time. I could be proven wrong in the future, at which point I may pick it up, but not yet.
Responding to Vorian, I also think the game really isn't much like the old Necromunda. Changing the gangs to have different stats and different equipment is a big departure for me, as are a lot of the changes I've picked up on in the post-game sequence and gang progression system. Then there's the changes to Overwatch, the changes to the Jam mechanic and several other little changes that I think take it a little too far away from what I want in a new Necromunda game. Again, not saying it'll be terrible, just not what I'm after.
Da-Rock wrote: Wow! A lot of complaining about a game they don't even have......so standard internet usage. I counted three negatives and two or three more bandwagon fans who cancelled their order.
Sounds brilliant to cancel something based on pretty much nothing. I would say that maybe some of you shouldn't have made the order until you could actually afford it.
And ordering a game about which you know basically nothing is ''brilliant''???!!!! (and for the record I pre-ordered the game)
I get it that for some it's fun to blast posters for no good reasons, but at the very least, try to have a coherent argument before doing so
@slip, a lot of the little changes seem pretty trivial - but there's always the old game with new miniatures.
Actually, if you just changed the old game to alternate activation and new melee and left everything else as is you'd probably still get the benefits of alternate activations without any of the other changes. Might try that.
Unless I missed something, I don't recall much details being given on the revenu generation systems and the territory. Which are a big part of the campaign rules.
Everyone whining about having to buy the gang war book when the old version also came as 2 books. Its not the same. Its not the old necromunda. The activation system ruins it lol.
Good lord take off the rose tinted gw glasses of old. Its about time gw made some effort into diversifying their clunkly horrible ill do everything while you twiddle your thumbs mess of an activation system.
Old necro desperately needed updated and they've done it. Thankfully theres the old version for the dinosaurs that cant fathom anything new and improved to keep you lot going.
You seem to be under the impression I've based my decision on the MWG review alone. I haven't. There are other factors as well (which I mentioned and which you quoted, BTW) but seeing the rules in action and getting a better look at the contents of the box and what to expect from the base game, I was put off. This is a purchase of almost £100 so I'll base my decision on whatever info GW releases, in whatever format they choose. I know what MWG's reputation is - they're X-Wing videos were some of the most unintentionally funny gaming videos I've ever seen - but this is what I have to go on.
I'm not saying people who buy it are idiots, I'm simply saying I don't think it's what I want it to be and GW haven't done a good enough job to persuade me to take the plunge at the price they're asking. If the Gang War rules were included in the base price of the game I would have been much more willing to take the risk.
Where are you shopping for your games? I pre-ordered the main game, gang war, two extra boxes of gangers and both sets of extra cards and the whole lot was £120. You can get the game+gang war for much less than £100 - It's £70 from Dark Sphere.
Motograter wrote: Everyone whining about having to buy the gang war book when the old version also came as 2 books. Its not the same. Its not the old necromunda. The activation system ruins it lol.
Good lord take off the rose tinted gw glasses of old. Its about time gw made some effort into diversifying their clunkly horrible ill do everything while you twiddle your thumbs mess of an activation system.
Old necro desperately needed updated and they've done it. Thankfully theres the old version for the dinosaurs that cant fathom anything new and improved to keep you lot going.
Ok...
1. The old Necromunda did come with two books. But that's the difference: It came with the two books. You didn't buy one after the fact. Moreover you had the rules for all 6 gangs (such as they were) right from the get go, not just 2 of them, and not missing basic stuff like chainswords.
2. I don't necessarily disagree about the activation system and trying something new - I'm looking forward to the Newcromunda rules - but for the most part people don't seem to be complaining about that.
3. I don't think Necro desperately needed anything other than a whole stack'a new missions. And it's not about 'dinosaurs that can't fathom anything new', so maybe don't take that tact. There's nothing wrong with liking Necromunda as it is. It hasn't endured as long as it has on rose-tinted nostalgia.
Motograter wrote: Everyone whining about having to buy the gang war book when the old version also came as 2 books. Its not the same. Its not the old necromunda. The activation system ruins it lol.
Good lord take off the rose tinted gw glasses of old. Its about time gw made some effort into diversifying their clunkly horrible ill do everything while you twiddle your thumbs mess of an activation system.
Old necro desperately needed updated and they've done it. Thankfully theres the old version for the dinosaurs that cant fathom anything new and improved to keep you lot going.
Apparently expressing a mild dislike of something is enough to get jumped on nowadays. I'm now both destitute and a dinosaur.
Needless to say, I disagree with pretty much everything you wrote. I don't think anyone who picks up the new Necromunda is an idiot and if they enjoy the game, that's great. It's just not for me, hence the cancellation of the pre-order (which was direct from GW, for convenience sake, since somebody asked). You see how I managed to do that without being a complete **** about it? Maybe try that next time?
Da-Rock wrote: Wow! A lot of complaining about a game they don't even have......so standard internet usage. I counted three negatives and two or three more bandwagon fans who cancelled their order.
Sounds brilliant to cancel something based on pretty much nothing. I would say that maybe some of you shouldn't have made the order until you could actually afford it.
And ordering a game about which you know basically nothing is ''brilliant''???!!!! (and for the record I pre-ordered the game)
I get it that for some it's fun to blast posters for no good reasons, but at the very least, try to have a coherent argument before doing so
I hope in the new edition they do something about the proliferation of high S weapons for regular gangs. Having gangers run around with melta weapons or plasma in a game where barely anyone has much armour was kind of ridiculous.
I'd prefer a game which had a different damage band scale, with autoguns, shotguns and the like being the norm, with the Heavy Stubber as the main heavy weapon available, and things like lasguns being a bit more exotic. That way on a D6 system things aren't so off kilter. But it looks like that won't be a thing since Goliath's are now S & T 4 from what I have read.
Not very impressed with how the miniatures are looking either. They're a bit bulky, both for the Goliath's and Escher. I have my old gang miniatures from a ways back, and prefer the Escher look from back then compared to the ones available in this set. The Goliaths I don't really like much at all to be honest. You could always make your own using Dark Eldar Wyches for Escher, with a bit of green-stuff for hair and the like if necessary. Goliaths could be done using Warhammer Khorne beserker types, but wouldn't be that close to how the originals were. A bit sad but that's how it is I guess.
See, as a long term Necromunda player, I rarely if ever really bothered with high powered weapons.
I’d rather invest my Creds in sheer numbers than a single serious weapon. Hell, I’d take a Heavy Stubber over a Heavy Bolter anyday. Though I did make an exception for Grenade Launchers. Their range and punch was just about perfect for me.
I also preferred Pistols to Basic Weapons. I tended to find I just didn’t need the extra range. My style was to hug terrain, keeping out LoS as much as possible. And it usually worked pretty well.
I know they’re likely gone, but I found the judicious application of Vents and Tunnels was the real trick. A Juve with a Hand Flamer popping up in the right place in the right time was downright deadly when it still had the diddy template. And of course bagged them lots of precious XP.
Keep on the move, dodge, duck, dip and dive. That’s the Grotsnik play
Some high-powered weapons had a point. Plasma Guns on low power were more reliable Bolters, which made them useful. Heavy Bolters were a real step up from Heavy Stubbers if you had it on a Weapon Smith and a few Armourers in your gang. And as I said, Lascannons were a prestige weapon, no matter how silly it was to have one.
Meltaguns? Not as flexible as Plasma Guns.
Autocannons? Fewer shots, why bother?
Missile Launchers? Frag missiles are good, but the 'Auto' ammo roll sucked.
Just preferred to put my faith in more dudes with more guns in more places.
Mind you, as Cawdor I typically wound up with far more Disarm than normal. So when it came to be expensive stuff, I tended to break my opponent’s rather than buy my own.
But hey, if there was ‘one way to play’, the game would’ve sucked.
I used to field a heavy plasma gun purely because the Escher heavy model was cool. I've got a few converted models with a flamer, missile launcher and sniper rifle, but I never actually got round to painting them, let alone using them in a game.
The boxed set is a base to work with. You will be able to get the gangs up and running, and play out the basic rules. The Gang War book is going to work out if you already have the stuff to play with. NEW BOX is for new people, but there seems to be a metric gak ton of bits in those sprues. They talk about in the "Contents" list about the gubbins, bits, weapons, kit.
They are selling the gangs in their own boxes, the wall sections in their own boxes, and extra large scenery boxed sets, that add to the Armageddon sets that came out, ( Which I honestly thought through past discussion with my local shop that were supposed to be an ongoing product, and that Armageddon was supposed to be a game system.)
Someone asked earlier about the Spyers... The Spyers are large mega city type structures that go up, and go down. There are different spyers on the whole city thing, and there are different things going on in different spyers. In the "Underhive", Your gangs are fighting the fights with the gangs. The deep sump- the dredges of the hives. Muties, Scavys, and criminals and all of the monsters and deviltry that goes on in the dark. Chaos cults, genestealer incursions, cannibal clans, etc. They have the giant spyer spiders, who were told to be Albino, and that the spiders were the namesake for the Necromunda Regiment, the 8th Necromunda Spiders.
There are different domes with different things going on. You just need to decide what dome you are going to, and fight your way through other peoples territory to get there. It was a while back, but IIRC, we used a map, of either London, or New York, that had different sections that we went ahead and put a lamination over and drew up different territories and landmarks, such as a foundry, or a chapel, or a bar... YMMV, but it came a bit easier when you were fighting over similer territories, and helped you to expand the unknown map, and then fight over by then- everyone's established territories. After a while, we played the game with some established territories, and fought over a few of the same terrain bits that were the territory in question.
If you can find it as well, they used to have an Ork bar fighting game, which was a hell of a load of fun if you add in a bunch of figures, and have them get into a bar fight, that could also double as a contact or adventure beginning, as you take your starting guy and gain the gang from the fight.
There is lots of fluff throughout the material about the different gangs, and outlanders. They came up with an Ash Waste add on in the living rulebook, and it was on par with adding in Gorkamorka vehicle rules that gave you a driving game, but it honestly wasn't needed, when it is better to go do a "Apocalypse Now" sort of campaign, and your going to have to make your boat, and sump river with the beasts and outlanders that would give you all sorts of hell. I used an old IG CO with an army of cultists and mutants, and then I have an old Inquisitor that we used back in the day. The beauty of Necromunda is that it is your game. You make what you want and play with as much or as little scenery. It is an encouragement to have a lot of scenery, but you have stuff you can do with the old Space Hulk tiles, such as the exploration, and unless you had a flashlight, you could see as much as a blast marker, as you walked through the corridors and disturbed all sorts of crazy gak.
When Necromunda first came out, it was an unwritten rule to go on ahead and build your own scenery. They added in ample amounts of bulkheads, and they came out with cardstock scenery to coincide with the stuff that came in the main box, and in the add ons.
This new game is coming out with a variation on a theme, with the added card decks, dice, boxed gangs, and the doors bulkheads, that you can then add onto your terrain sets, that are 10 times better then the old cardstock stuff.
The one thing that bummed me out about the rulebook and gang war was the slight lack of attention to the setting. There is plenty of artwork of the gangs and fluff for em. But the setting not so much. You can tell from the necromunda websites setting video they made newer sketches of the hive city, and a cool map of the actual planet. But there isn't really any artwork of the hive city or setting at all in either book. It just sucks to see it get sidelined. 2-4 pages more is really all it needed.
I really feel like GWs worldbuilding and fluff department and hell even the artwork has been lacking in the books for a good couple years now. Though I feel like the artwork of the characters/gangers in the book is a step up from some stuff i've seen in the recent past.
So not much fluff about the setting in the main rulebook!! That's dissapointing. The small stories in the old book what one of the big reason why it was such a great book
The snap bit thing is huge, that is literally the primary barrier for many, many board gamers, do they need to buy glue and carefully read instructions to put the models together?
And that is why I dont buy the 'this is an intro box to get people into the hobby' reasoning to exclude the 3d rules.
I have seen many reviews of recent GW stand alone games on BGG and every time a boardgamer reviews their games they lament the time and effort that needs to go into putting the models together. It is a major hurdle for the boardgame community to get over. If GW were genuinely wanting necroumunda to be a 'gateway' game then the box set would have snap fit models.
What they are doing is straddling the fence to justify their sales strategy. Its not a board game, its not a miniatures game, its a mish-mash of both to try and maximize profits and minimize risk and in doing so it will alienate (some) people in both camps.
The snap bit thing is huge, that is literally the primary barrier for many, many board gamers, do they need to buy glue and carefully read instructions to put the models together?
And that is why I dont buy the 'this is an intro box to get people into the hobby' reasoning to exclude the 3d rules.
I have seen many reviews of recent GW stand alone games on BGG and every time a boardgamer reviews their games they lament the time and effort that needs to go into putting the models together. It is a major hurdle for the boardgame community to get over. If GW were genuinely wanting necroumunda to be a 'gateway' game then the box set would have snap fit models.
What they are doing is straddling the fence to justify their sales strategy. Its not a board game, its not a miniatures game, its a mish-mash of both to try and maximize profits and minimize risk and in doing so it will alienate (some) people in both camps.
Snap fit and less customizable and especially personalizable figures would really take away from one of the key experiences of Necromunda though. With a 40k starter they can get away with it. But arming and customizing your gang in Necromunda is kind of one of the key points of the game. I don't really expect this game to be all that popular, if anything it will remain as it was...same as blood bowl, kind of a niche but beloved thing. Their sales strategy is questionable, but I think it's pretty obvious some effort went into this. Also when the original Necromunda released it didn't have any mass amount of content either. They are redesigning the gang rules to make them more distinct, it's better to think of this as a reboot that is almost from the ground up because they are reworking the rules and adding new weapons.
I don't really see this being sold as a boardgame, it's less of a boardgame than even burning of prospero and DW overkill. The tiles function for all intents and purposes as 3d zone mortalis tiles rules wise, the difference is it is incredibly cheaper than the actual zone mortalis while more or less offering the same gameplay experience. The blacked out sections still function as 3d walls blocking line of sight. Had they included more terrain in the box we would be looking at a price at or above that of Dark Imperium, which would be really off putting.
What they are doing is straddling the fence to justify their sales strategy. Its not a board game, its not a miniatures game, its a mish-mash of both to try and maximize profits and minimize risk and in doing so it will alienate (some) people in both camps.
It’s not a board game, does not purport to be a board game, is not marketed as a board game and is not trying to appeal to board gamers.
“Chopper, no board game here, here, no board game.”
streetsamurai wrote: So not much fluff about the setting in the main rulebook!! That's dissapointing. The small stories in the old book what one of the big reason why it was such a great book
The background section is almost word for word what came out for Confrontation with a couple of bits added and obviously with the houses added (and expanded upon from the Necromunda release).
What they are doing is straddling the fence to justify their sales strategy. Its not a board game, its not a miniatures game, its a mish-mash of both to try and maximize profits and minimize risk and in doing so it will alienate (some) people in both camps.
It’s not a board game, does not purport to be a board game, is not marketed as a board game and is not trying to appeal to board gamers.
“Chopper, no board game here, here, no board game.”
In the traditional sense, I absolutely agree.
But, Necromunda Underhive boxed set is a complete gaming experience in and of itself, insofar as you don't need or require any further purchases for the game contained within.
I will say I'm in agreement with Thargrim on the fluff side of things. It would be cool to see some diagrams of Hive Primus, and I was really looking forward to some cool art representing at least the other house gangs. Not to say the illustrations in the new books (from what I've seen) are bad, I was just hoping for some more varied artwork rather than a ton of pictures of Eschers, and a ton of Goliaths.
Snap fit and less customizable and especially personalizable figures would really take away from one of the key experiences of Necromunda though. With a 40k starter they can get away with it. But arming and customizing your gang in Necromunda is kind of one of the key points of the game. I don't really expect this game to be all that popular, if anything it will remain as it was...same as blood bowl, kind of a niche but beloved thing. Their sales strategy is questionable, but I think it's pretty obvious some effort went into this. Also when the original Necromunda released it didn't have any mass amount of content either. They are redesigning the gang rules to make them more distinct, it's better to think of this as a reboot that is almost from the ground up because they are reworking the rules and adding new weapons.
I don't really see this being sold as a boardgame, it's less of a boardgame than even burning of prospero and DW overkill. The tiles function for all intents and purposes as 3d zone mortalis tiles rules wise, the difference is it is incredibly cheaper than the actual zone mortalis while more or less offering the same gameplay experience. The blacked out sections still function as 3d walls blocking line of sight. Had they included more terrain in the box we would be looking at a price at or above that of Dark Imperium, which would be really off putting.
You're spot on Thargrim but that is why some of us are a bit confused and disappointed with how the new Necromunda was released. The heart and soul of the old Necromunda is the campaign system and 3D terrain, maybe it won't be for the new Necromunda but if those are the two things a person is really looking for the new core set is a terrible value, you're paying a bunch of extra money for cardboard and tiny plastic barriers that you have no interest in at all and on top of that you have to buy the campaign rules separately. It's weird and it seems like a missed opportunity to me as while initial sales will be good (It's Necromunda after all) I think future sales will be abysmal, especially after they finally release the core rules separately. It's not for board gamers and is not a good value for miniature gamers, who the heck is the target audience here?
The old core set was a fantastic value, all of the terrain you needed to play, all of the rules, and two gangs. It was a complete package with a clear audience.
Snap fit and less customizable and especially personalizable figures would really take away from one of the key experiences of Necromunda though. With a 40k starter they can get away with it. But arming and customizing your gang in Necromunda is kind of one of the key points of the game. I don't really expect this game to be all that popular, if anything it will remain as it was...same as blood bowl, kind of a niche but beloved thing. Their sales strategy is questionable, but I think it's pretty obvious some effort went into this. Also when the original Necromunda released it didn't have any mass amount of content either. They are redesigning the gang rules to make them more distinct, it's better to think of this as a reboot that is almost from the ground up because they are reworking the rules and adding new weapons.
I don't really see this being sold as a boardgame, it's less of a boardgame than even burning of prospero and DW overkill. The tiles function for all intents and purposes as 3d zone mortalis tiles rules wise, the difference is it is incredibly cheaper than the actual zone mortalis while more or less offering the same gameplay experience. The blacked out sections still function as 3d walls blocking line of sight. Had they included more terrain in the box we would be looking at a price at or above that of Dark Imperium, which would be really off putting.
You're spot on Thargrim but that is why some of us are a bit confused and disappointed with how the new Necromunda was released. The heart and soul of the old Necromunda is the campaign system and 3D terrain, maybe it won't be for the new Necromunda but if those are the two things a person is really looking for the new core set is a terrible value, you're paying a bunch of extra money for cardboard and tiny plastic barriers that you have no interest in at all and on top of that you have to buy the campaign rules separately. It's weird and it seems like a missed opportunity to me as while initial sales will be good (It's Necromunda after all) I think future sales will be abysmal, especially after they finally release the core rules separately. It's not for board gamers and is not a good value for miniature gamers, who the heck is the target audience here?
The old core set was a fantastic value, all of the terrain you needed to play, all of the rules, and two gangs. It was a complete package with a clear audience.
Its not a realistic expectation for GW to be able to make an affordable game with full terrain. One building is like £40+ these days. It may of been do-able in the 90's but things are much more expensive now. This is basically a starter set, I am sure a full compiled rule book will be released at some point plus if you don't like the new rules the old are still online for free. One thing people seem to be missing is that in the original all gangs had the same stats and same equipment lists, so basically you get one list in the original. We are getting two this time with actual variation between the houses, which is a big plus in my book. My only complaint at this stage (going with what I have seen) is that its going to be a bit mono-tone till some more gangs come out and happen to think quarterly releases aren't going to be fast enough to maintain the initial hype.
I actually enjoyed doing 2D sets in the old necromunda, it stands to figure there's a ton of sewers, pipelines, crowded area's that wouldn't just be full open area's.
After building the 10 Eschers from the box set based on what they recommend as your options/crew, theres a good bit of bits left over.
this is just one sprue but..
3 Extra heads
2 Stabby Knives
Whip
Chem Flamer
6 Range weapons (mostly las)
2 Grenade packs.
Didn't get a good chance to go through the armory yet to see what other non box weapons they can have. If its a good bit, may pick up another box.
Also incase anyone wondered, it comes with 2 of the same spue, each body except the legs can be configured with whatever head and weapons youd like. The heads are all 2 pieces. Face and hair
Rolsheen wrote: As a long time Escher player those MWG campaign videos were heartbreaking, to see them treated so poorly by the oaf playing them. He didn't have a clue about their strengths, their weaknesses or more importantly the rules
QFT, the Miniwargaming videos and the sour grapes review at the end of the six games was absolutely excruciating. The Escher player (in all 6 games, they never once swapped out the gangs) was terrible, charging lone gangers into hand to hand with goliaths, often 2 at a time or leaving himself open to countercharges, he had abysmal dice rolls in all the games and his activation choices were just odd and disjointed, treating every ganger like an individual with no thought to synergy or cohesion. The Goliath player owned him through simple skill, adapting to the new rules more comfortably and better dice rolls.
They then sat there and stated it's the game, when it was clearly one dramatically better player owning another. Why on earth didn't they run it 3 games one gang and then swap and run 3 games the other?
It was like them saying '40k is awful and broken' because the Tau player was upset that constantly charging into melee with the tyranid player's army didn't work out for him 'any of the six times'...
I had not forgiven this bunch of muppets for the Blue Table Painting stunts they pulled, I'm even more convinced of their ineptitude following this.
Its not a realistic expectation for GW to be able to make an affordable game with full terrain. One building is like £40+ these days. It may of been do-able in the 90's but things are much more expensive now. This is basically a starter set, I am sure a full compiled rule book will be released at some point plus if you don't like the new rules the old are still online for free. One thing people seem to be missing is that in the original all gangs had the same stats and same equipment lists, so basically you get one list in the original. We are getting two this time with actual variation between the houses, which is a big plus in my book. My only complaint at this stage (going with what I have seen) is that its going to be a bit mono-tone till some more gangs come out and happen to think quarterly releases aren't going to be fast enough to maintain the initial hype.
The original gangs had the same stats because the differentiation between the gangs was in advancement and different equipment allowances, two things that you have to pay extra now for by buying the Gang War book. The starter terrain in the box also does not need to be the full on plastic that GW produces now, the old cardboard/plastic terrain was great for a starter set and likely has about the same plastic/cardboard combination that the current set has.
The problem is that right now you can't get the rule book separately and we don't know when you will be able to do so. I *love* Necromunda and I want this new release to be successful, wildly so if at all possible. My concern is that by the time GW decides that it's finally time to release the rule book separately the hype over Necromunda will be over and it will just die a slow death again. Tabletop games live or die by the number of active players in your area.
Reading the Gang War book more, really wish they added more weapons. I assume each faction will have some that are specific or more common to them, but as is, seems a little limiting. No heavy stubber, sniper, etc. I guess they will release more supplements in the future and add on
We'll get the rules when the weapons are released on miniatures.
The fun thing last year with Blood Bowl is that the old point costs were fully compatible with the new version so even if GW didn't realse the minis/rules, we could have at it. I guess this is not the case now :( Waiting sucks.
str00dles1 wrote: After building the 10 Eschers from the box set based on what they recommend as your options/crew, theres a good bit of bits left over.
this is just one sprue but..
3 Extra heads
2 Stabby Knives
Whip
Chem Flamer
6 Range weapons (mostly las)
2 Grenade packs.
Didn't get a good chance to go through the armory yet to see what other non box weapons they can have. If its a good bit, may pick up another box.
Also incase anyone wondered, it comes with 2 of the same spue, each body except the legs can be configured with whatever head and weapons youd like. The heads are all 2 pieces. Face and hair
6 range weapons mostly las. Except for 2 autoguns and 2 shotguns. 2 las weapons spare
str00dles1 wrote: Reading the Gang War book more, really wish they added more weapons. I assume each faction will have some that are specific or more common to them, but as is, seems a little limiting. No heavy stubber, sniper, etc. I guess they will release more supplements in the future and add on
You have the book? Can you answer two questions: 1) how exactly the 'no weapon swapping ' thing works? 2) When starting a gang can you initially equip the gang members with stuff from the Trading Post?
Well, I thought after preorders went up that my local group would be at least excited by necromunda coming back. Those guys were so hyped for 8th they reposted every article from warhammer community to the group and links to the rule leaks. No one has mentioned Necromunda. Nothing. That's a really bad sign. The LGS is pretty connected to their customers as well. I doubt the store gets many copies. The store owner will usually ask around the group to make sure he orders enough of a new release. As far as my local group Necromunda doesn't exist. No hype, no planned event. Nothing.
I wanted so badly for this to be just re-released so I could play in some campaigns. Full house support on day 1 would have been really nice. I can't see why they couldn't shift something around to make two more fething sprues. Two gangs does not a campaign make.
Da-Rock wrote: My group is ready to play next week, (after I put together all of my MDF terrain of course).
Not sure why so many are complaining....other than to complain.
Exactly!
I'm well excited for my pre-order to arrive. I used to play Oldmunda and loved it. But that was then and this is now. Looking forward to see how the new edition works out. Starting in the tunnels and sewers and then on up into the close cramped cities. Two different types of locale to play out across. Even Mrs Jan, who doesnt play games is excited and wants to give it a go.
I really hope they have some stuff to show this weekend at the open day, whether its a solid teaser of the Orlocks (which have to be nearing completion at the very least). And some more hired guns/hanger ons for the gangs. With the game launching this weekend it would be about the right time for them to prove they plan on supporting the game long term. They showed off the Shadespire Skaven early, same with most of the Shadespire contents. So to be honest i'm hoping they are prepared to show off the next gang...very soon.
aye - a teaser, even if it's of something that is quite a while off being released, would be very tasty and may go a fair way to ease some of the ...... 'concerns' folk have been pounding on about. Just have to wait n see. Fingers crossed though. Orloks are the next gang in line for release? Dammit!! was hoping for Delaque. Ah well. The Orloks could do with a fair overall/reimagining. Never was much of a fan of the old sculpts or look
Da-Rock wrote: My group is ready to play next week, (after I put together all of my MDF terrain of course).
Not sure why so many are complaining....other than to complain.
Well, it was similar watching GW fans posting on other releases...
Legion - will fail, only 2 factions on release? Wtf?
Maelstrom's Edge - will fail, only 2 factions on release? Wtf?
Runewars - will fail, only 2 factions on release? Wtf?
Etc.
Seems like GW are making a campaign game of lots of factions into a drip-drip-drip-buy-this-DLC-type release.
Although I've pre-ordered it myself, I'll be well annoyed if I have to carry 3 or 4 books with rules spread across them to play a single new gang when they come out.
Da-Rock wrote: My group is ready to play next week, (after I put together all of my MDF terrain of course).
Not sure why so many are complaining....other than to complain.
Well, it was similar watching GW fans posting on other releases...
Legion - will fail, only 2 factions on release? Wtf?
Maelstrom's Edge - will fail, only 2 factions on release? Wtf?
Runewars - will fail, only 2 factions on release? Wtf?
Etc.
Seems like GW are making a campaign game of lots of factions into a drip-drip-drip-buy-this-DLC-type release.
Although I've pre-ordered it myself, I'll be well annoyed if I have to carry 3 or 4 books with rules spread across them to play a single new gang when they come out.
Well to play 3d games at the very least you will need the starter set rulebook, gang war, and depending on the gang you play probably another book for them. A lot of people have assumed the rules for the revised Orlocks will be in a little supplement book as well, with other hired guns and content. So if you want to play Orlocks I feel fairly comfortable saying you'll have a stack of three books if you plan on playing on 3D terrain. I'm not sure they would release a multiple page free PDF for the Orlocks alone, seems doubtful.
Januine wrote: aye - a teaser, even if it's of something that is quite a while off being released, would be very tasty and may go a fair way to ease some of the ...... 'concerns' folk have been pounding on about. Just have to wait n see. Fingers crossed though. Orloks are the next gang in line for release? Dammit!! was hoping for Delaque. Ah well. The Orloks could do with a fair overall/reimagining. Never was much of a fan of the old sculpts or look
I too hope that if Orlocks are next that the models have something new to them. I am looking forward to Delaque as you are, I am planing on making them look like these guys from the Marlboro Man movie:
Well to play 3d games at the very least you will need the starter set rulebook, gang war, and depending on the gang you play probably another book for them. A lot of people have assumed the rules for the revised Orlocks will be in a little supplement book as well, with other hired guns and content. So if you want to play Orlocks I feel fairly comfortable saying you'll have a stack of three books if you plan on playing on 3D terrain. I'm not sure they would release a multiple page free PDF for the Orlocks alone, seems doubtful.
I'm semi worried about my preorder. I know they say it probably won't ship to me till next week since standard delivery and all the crud.
However my bank account says they refunded the order. My email says nothing and the order is still pending. Now I have to wait till I get the "It's on its way" confirmation or its been cancelled.
PFI wrote: I'm semi worried about my preorder. I know they say it probably won't ship to me till next week since standard delivery and all the crud.
However my bank account says they refunded the order. My email says nothing and the order is still pending. Now I have to wait till I get the "It's on its way" confirmation or its been cancelled.
Here's to hoping for free necromunda!!
This happens to me periodically with one store(not miniature related but still). They do initial check for money when you order(hence it gets billed) but don't REALLY charge it before preorder so if it's too long non-charged money in account becomes available again. However when store then finally charges money goes away. Inconvenient if you forget to keep up money there. Even more inconvenient if you are like me and never keep lots of money on account linked to card to limit damage card info theft etc can do and end up with huge payment suffer from this!
But no free necromunda for you.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Chopstick wrote: People was worrying about their legacy gang not being playable when the game isn't even officially out yet. Give it a week or 2 people.
Week or two? This year won't come new gangs period. Expect to play your orlocks etc next year earlier. HOPEFULLY bit faster rate than BB which has done what 4-5 teams(not even complete) in a year?
Week or two? This year won't come new gangs period. Expect to play your orlocks etc next year earlier. HOPEFULLY bit faster rate than BB which has done what 4-5 teams(not even complete) in a year?
Legacy gang is not new gang, I was talking about rule for the oldmunda gang which are "coming soon" for free download on the main site.
Or get converting! Which was always my favourite part of Necromunda
But yeah I have heard its legacy rules PDF's on Friday, no unique house weapons (like the renderizer or the chem launcher thing) but rules for anything that GW had previously made a model for.
Week or two? This year won't come new gangs period. Expect to play your orlocks etc next year earlier. HOPEFULLY bit faster rate than BB which has done what 4-5 teams(not even complete) in a year?
Legacy gang is not new gang, I was talking about rule for the oldmunda gang which are "coming soon" for free download on the main site.
Ah so we will then eventually have 2 rules for orlocks etc. Well legacy rules are probably lousy in power in comparison.
I’m really looking forward to my new Goliath gang. I’m planning on converting them with Ork Burma boy mask bits, and paint them with hazard stripes.
Also, I’m hoping when Van Saar is released, they will have an expansion special mission where you can steal some of their fabled STC stuff.
That just made me count what I've got in my head - I think I'm up to 130 models across all the gangs (!)
Obviously what I need is a minimum 60 more in the next year
I am planning on getting 20 of each house, 10-15 to make up as gangers and the rest to use in conversions as the gangs progress. So 120 gangers in total. Plus Hired Guns. And Terrain. And Outlanders too. Oh I will need some spiders and some plague zombies too. It's cool though, who needs to be able to afford to eat anyhows?
True enough! Ebay prices would bankrupt me!! It still sounds weird to say plastic modular necromunda kits. Its been something I have wanted for so long now . . .
So my order is sending now. I ordered it from gw online store. I paid and then 2 days later they gave me mu money back. Checked tracking today and its on its way. Now to watch my bank account :p
Although I've pre-ordered it myself, I'll be well annoyed if I have to carry 3 or 4 books with rules spread across them to play a single new gang when they come out.
Learning from experience, you'll have to carry on alot more than that. You'll have a bunch of books, pdfs, erratas, faqs, apps, white dwarf articles and the little rule pages that come with some special characters.
Only way to overecome this is to compile a unified rules document. I'm prepared to do exactly that.
I have always wondered why GW use books and not folders for rules. That why they can release new units/campaigns/etc etc left and right and just include a print out or stats on the box that can be inserted into the folder. If a unit's stats are amended or rules changed no need to print a whole new book, just replace the page.
Skinnereal wrote: That leads to fewer book sales.
Even softbacks have disappeared again.
Yeah GW is still working on the flawed assumption they can get more sales by putting out more items forgetting sales on books eats on sales on miniatures and indeed can turn away potential customers.
Ruin_In_The_Dark wrote: I have always wondered why GW use books and not folders for rules. That why they can release new units/campaigns/etc etc left and right and just include a print out or stats on the box that can be inserted into the folder. If a unit's stats are amended or rules changed no need to print a whole new book, just replace the page.
Books look better on shelves and take up less room. Perhaps not so much of an issue for GW, but I've heard it from other rules publishers that that's the reason they use books rather than loose-leaf pages in folders, even though the latter is more practical.
They used to sell binders that you could use to put rulebooks in (the staple-bound, paperback rulebooks from boxed games like Space Marine and Advanced Heroquest), but I'm not sure who actually ever used them.
Ruin_In_The_Dark wrote: I have always wondered why GW use books and not folders for rules. That why they can release new units/campaigns/etc etc left and right and just include a print out or stats on the box that can be inserted into the folder. If a unit's stats are amended or rules changed no need to print a whole new book, just replace the page.
Once upon a time, they did.
Blood Bowl, Adeptus Titanicus etc all came with printed 'guide holes' so they could be stored in a binder.
Any guess as to the state said pages quickly wound up in?
Ruin_In_The_Dark wrote: I have always wondered why GW use books and not folders for rules. That why they can release new units/campaigns/etc etc left and right and just include a print out or stats on the box that can be inserted into the folder. If a unit's stats are amended or rules changed no need to print a whole new book, just replace the page.
Once upon a time, they did.
Blood Bowl, Adeptus Titanicus etc all came with printed 'guide holes' so they could be stored in a binder.
Any guess as to the state said pages quickly wound up in?
I put my hands up & I admit I didn't think of the state of the pages after a few games!
Picked my box up last night at LGS. Very happy with it! I am reading the rules and it reminds me of Warmachine/Hordes rules, which I love.
The models look better live than the pictures. I like that you can use the tokens to mark things or use a combo of tapping cards and placing models face down and up etc.
Ruin_In_The_Dark wrote: I have always wondered why GW use books and not folders for rules. That why they can release new units/campaigns/etc etc left and right and just include a print out or stats on the box that can be inserted into the folder. If a unit's stats are amended or rules changed no need to print a whole new book, just replace the page.
Once upon a time, they did.
Blood Bowl, Adeptus Titanicus etc all came with printed 'guide holes' so they could be stored in a binder.
Any guess as to the state said pages quickly wound up in?
As a callow pre-teenager, I made a horrendous mess of cutting up my 1st edition Space Marine rulebook to go in a binder - to the extent that I cut through some of the punched holes, making the whole thing useless.
Idiotic that he apologize. He told us what he thought about the game, so there was nothing to apologize for (even if I didn't agreed with most of what he said) Guess he was afraid of GW reaction.
Anyway, really don't like that some tactical cards are exclusive to ordering on the web site. I won't get them, since I ordered from my LGS, so I hope I'm not missing mucch
Josh did go to Yaktribe and tell the folk to email him feedback few days ago.
Maybe if GW made the go-to weapon for Escher the autogun instead of the crappy 1 shot flashlight, poor Josh would have a better experience. Imagine Escher, now with cheap autogun instead of cheap flashlight.
Fair enough about the interrupting of his opponent, but not sure he needed to apologise for anything else. I thought he exaggerated points, but I'd rather a guy give his honest opinion than feel like he needs to be nice to GW so they still send them free stuff, which is really how this video felt. I watched the games and it did look like the format favours Goliaths... Was there stuff he could have done better? Yes, I'm sure. But he played 6 games and gave an honest opinion, and if he was salty about the results of the games then so be it.
streetsamurai wrote: Idiotic that he apologize. He told us what he thought about the game, so there was nothing to apologize for (even if I didn't agreed with most of what he said) Guess he was afraid of GW reaction.
Anyway, really don't like that some tactical cards are exclusive to ordering on the web site.
I won't get them, since I ordered from my LGS, so I hope I'm not missing mucch
I don't think her should have apologized - but if lots of people think the review was unfair (which they did) then it's going to harm your reputation and cost you viewers, so an "oops, that video was still whilst I was in the red mist" seems sensible.
Had a chance to read some of the fluff from the core rulebook, it's mostly older fluff slightly updated (not a bad thing imho!) and plenty of nods to really old stuff, like..
- Spook being found in old military supply bunkers
- Caryatid! The little blue-skinned cherubs are back!
Hives mentioned are:
- Palatine a.k.a. Hive Primus
-- Orbiting over Primus is the Eye of Selene, through which all orbital traffic goes (inefficient, but this is done so the ruling house gets its cut of the spoils, ALWAYS)
- Trazior a.k.a. the Three Sisters (Orlock and Goliath are fighting over this one)
- Acropolis, a merchant hive with strong Delaque presence
- The Temenos, headquarters of the Ecclesiarchy and has a spire called Sisters Tower where a convent of Sororitas reside, house Cawdor obviously
- Quinspirus Cluster, next to what used to be an ocean, its docks are now buried under the undercity
- The Skull, a destroyed hive now inhabited by things best left alone
- Hive Secundus, bombed into ruin after Genestealer infestation brought on by rogue Tech-priest biologus, couldn't be completely wiped out so the ruins are surrounded by massive trench lines and bunker systems manned by conscripts and penal troops, the Genestealers are still in there, fighting the feral human survivors
- Hive Mortis, once a production powerhouse, but brought low by a plague that wiped out most of its population, now recycles corpses as a massive resyk plant a-la Dredd
- Gothrul's Needle, used to be a spaceport under the sway of the worst enemy of the great Houses: democracy! Primus wages a shadow war against this hive, with Delaque doing most of the work in bringing them low
FLGS loaned me a copy of the core and campaign books to look over until it comes out. Having ran through the core book, I have to say that things look absolutely fantastic. They really put a lot of love into this revamp, the rules are a significant improvement over the original ruleset, and leaps and bounds beyond Shadow War.
I'm usually pretty critical of GW in most things, but they really hit this one out of the park. I desperately hope that Newcromunda is a big success, and really look forward to getting a league going in the new year.
Both gangs are looking like they'll be really fun to play, and I can't wait to see what's in store for the other gangs.
The day after the Miniwargaming owners were in Nottingham.
Why is it that influencers on social media are fined if they don't disclose that they are being paid to promote something, yet you-tubers aren't? MWG have obviously accepted cash or goods from a company, who in turn are asking for favorable content reviews.
BrookM wrote: Had a chance to read some of the fluff from the core rulebook, it's mostly older fluff slightly updated (not a bad thing imho!) and plenty of nods to really old stuff, like..
- Spook being found in old military supply bunkers
- Caryatid! The little blue-skinned cherubs are back!
Hives mentioned are:
- Palatine a.k.a. Hive Primus
-- Orbiting over Primus is the Eye of Selene, through which all orbital traffic goes (inefficient, but this is done so the ruling house gets its cut of the spoils, ALWAYS)
- Trazior a.k.a. the Three Sisters (Orlock and Goliath are fighting over this one)
- Acropolis, a merchant hive with strong Delaque presence
- The Temenos, headquarters of the Ecclesiarchy and has a spire called Sisters Tower where a convent of Sororitas reside, house Cawdor obviously
- Quinspirus Cluster, next to what used to be an ocean, its docks are now buried under the undercity
- The Skull, a destroyed hive now inhabited by things best left alone
- Hive Secundus, bombed into ruin after Genestealer infestation brought on by rogue Tech-priest biologus, couldn't be completely wiped out so the ruins are surrounded by massive trench lines and bunker systems manned by conscripts and penal troops, the Genestealers are still in there, fighting the feral human survivors
- Hive Mortis, once a production powerhouse, but brought low by a plague that wiped out most of its population, now recycles corpses as a massive resyk plant a-la Dredd
- Gothrul's Needle, used to be a spaceport under the sway of the worst enemy of the great Houses: democracy! Primus wages a shadow war against this hive, with Delaque doing most of the work in bringing them low
Ooooh, cool. At least if it turns out Hive Primus is too small for my wee bit of worldbuilding, I can use Quinspirus instead. However, the fact they seem to be drawing so heavily on Confrontation fluff makes me hopeful they stick with the bigger hive sizes from back then rather than the more modest version from Necromunda proper.
The day after the Miniwargaming owners were in Nottingham.
Why is it that influencers on social media are fined if they don't disclose that they are being paid to promote something, yet you-tubers aren't? MWG have obviously accepted cash or goods from a company, who in turn are asking for favorable content reviews.
Don't think they're being paid per se, more likely a quid pro quo scenario where they agree to give a mostly fair but probably slightly softball review in exchange for continued access to pre-release review copies of upcoming product - in either case, they in fact do have to disclose that on youtube, and twitch, and anywhere; disclosure guidelines in both the UK and USA(and I assume EU since for the moment the UK pretty much only has proper regulations because we're still following EU law) are platform-agnostic, which is why I doubt they're being paid straight-up.
That said, to be honest in this case I don't blame GW for having a quiet word - there's a difference between doing a thorough, honest, but critical review, and making the product look bad because you bumbled through making mistakes and then shat on the product itself for the bad experience that was a result of your own failings. The former is the risk GW takes by sending out review copies, the latter is the reviewer failing to do their job properly, I don't see an issue with GW stepping in for a wee "shape up in future or no more review copies" in the latter case providing they accept the former with good grace, and folk who were critical of previous prerelease items still seem to be getting them.
The day after the Miniwargaming owners were in Nottingham.
Why is it that influencers on social media are fined if they don't disclose that they are being paid to promote something, yet you-tubers aren't? MWG have obviously accepted cash or goods from a company, who in turn are asking for favorable content reviews.
Nonsense. It was a bad review. He interrupted his cohost constantly and deliberately towards to the end of the review.
They focus almost exclusively on the balance of the teams and the activation mechanic. They did not discuss many of the mechanics at all. They did very little to test the balance of the teams. (Not even one game with the sides switched.) ultimately this was not really a review at all.
I think if the video had been titled 'first impressions' rather than the very loaded term 'review', he would have got a lot fewer complaints.
I'll be interested to see what they come up with for Goliath Juves, tbh they will have to be something pretty special to justify FW prices when you can pick up some dirt-cheap Bloodreavers and do a wee bit of minor conversion work.
I wonder how many of those awesome Stub Cannons you can take in a gang...
Well, even if I didn't dig the new rules I'm liking the new miniatures, and approve the new Goliath look, though to be honest I didn't dig the original.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Ash wastes here we come
Wargames exclusive. Sculpted by Grimmskull miniatures. Might have spelled that wrong. Painting by user Kestral, cause I can't do them justice. There are many to choose from, they have a news a rumor thread here which I should link to. Maybe best known for cheesecake.
Had a chance to read some of the fluff from the core rulebook, it's mostly older fluff slightly updated (not a bad thing imho!) and plenty of nods to really old stuff, like..
- Spook being found in old military supply bunkers
- Caryatid! The little blue-skinned cherubs are back!
Hives mentioned are:
- Palatine a.k.a. Hive Primus
-- Orbiting over Primus is the Eye of Selene, through which all orbital traffic goes (inefficient, but this is done so the ruling house gets its cut of the spoils, ALWAYS)
- Trazior a.k.a. the Three Sisters (Orlock and Goliath are fighting over this one)
- Acropolis, a merchant hive with strong Delaque presence
- The Temenos, headquarters of the Ecclesiarchy and has a spire called Sisters Tower where a convent of Sororitas reside, house Cawdor obviously
- Quinspirus Cluster, next to what used to be an ocean, its docks are now buried under the undercity
- The Skull, a destroyed hive now inhabited by things best left alone
- Hive Secundus, bombed into ruin after Genestealer infestation brought on by rogue Tech-priest biologus, couldn't be completely wiped out so the ruins are surrounded by massive trench lines and bunker systems manned by conscripts and penal troops, the Genestealers are still in there, fighting the feral human survivors
- Hive Mortis, once a production powerhouse, but brought low by a plague that wiped out most of its population, now recycles corpses as a massive resyk plant a-la Dredd
- Gothrul's Needle, used to be a spaceport under the sway of the worst enemy of the great Houses: democracy! Primus wages a shadow war against this hive, with Delaque doing most of the work in bringing them low
Ooooh, cool. At least if it turns out Hive Primus is too small for my wee bit of worldbuilding, I can use Quinspirus instead. However, the fact they seem to be drawing so heavily on Confrontation fluff makes me hopeful they stick with the bigger hive sizes from back then rather than the more modest version from Necromunda proper.
These are just the big hives dotting Necromunda, there are hundreds of smaller hive cities also out there. For our own campaign we're thinking of pitting the Escher and Goliath against one another in a smaller, outlying hive city that has been ignored for the most part, until now.
The day after the Miniwargaming owners were in Nottingham.
Why is it that influencers on social media are fined if they don't disclose that they are being paid to promote something, yet you-tubers aren't? MWG have obviously accepted cash or goods from a company, who in turn are asking for favorable content reviews.
Youtubers should be and can be. The video has to be marked as containing a paid endorsement even if they just got the stuff for free. Report it and it'll be pulled or demonetised (or marked correctly).
Okay, just read through Gangwar, and damn... the editing leaves something to be desired. Mostly in that options seem to have been cut quite late into development - boltpistols and sawed-off shotguns still have profiles, but no way to actually get them, theyre neither available at the tradepost, nor in the gang lists... Which leads me to believe that other weapons used to be available as well, and were cut when they didnt fit onto the sprues. A shame. :/
Tyr13 wrote: Okay, just read through Gangwar, and damn... the editing leaves something to be desired. Mostly in that options seem to have been cut quite late into development - boltpistols and sawed-off shotguns still have profiles, but no way to actually get them, theyre neither available at the tradepost, nor in the gang lists... Which leads me to believe that other weapons used to be available as well, and were cut when they didnt fit onto the sprues. A shame. :/
That sucks. I hope they can still be taken via the legacy gang lists.
But if you have the rules, could you please answer two questions: 1) how exactly the 'no weapon swapping ' thing works? 2) When starting a gang can you initially equip the gang members with stuff from the Trading Post?
They could cut down the texture base and add another sprue with just weapon arm, kinda like how The Tzaangor ger the extra sprue with gun and chainsword.
The saw off shotgun is the weapon used by the 2 of the Escher in the box art. Funny that they didn't make bits for the Escher characters that they show on various arts : weapon, headress, mask, armor.
Scott-S6 wrote: Youtubers should be and can be. The video has to be marked as containing a paid endorsement even if they just got the stuff for free. Report it and it'll be pulled or demonetised (or marked correctly).
There's a difference between a paid endorsement and being sent a preview/review copy.
The bases included with the core game are a pleasant surprise, so sharp in detail! Certainly a massive step up from those earlier boxed sets they put out, where I found the details to be soft or well.. blurry for a lack of words. They're also not attached to any sprue or show signs of having been attached to one so I'm guessing GW busted out the fancy stuff to cast these up so nice and crisp.
Tyr13 wrote: Okay, just read through Gangwar, and damn... the editing leaves something to be desired. Mostly in that options seem to have been cut quite late into development - boltpistols and sawed-off shotguns still have profiles, but no way to actually get them, theyre neither available at the tradepost, nor in the gang lists... Which leads me to believe that other weapons used to be available as well, and were cut when they didnt fit onto the sprues. A shame. :/
That sucks. I hope they can still be taken via the legacy gang lists.
But if you have the rules, could you please answer two questions: 1) how exactly the 'no weapon swapping ' thing works? 2) When starting a gang can you initially equip the gang members with stuff from the Trading Post?
1) If you equipped a fighter with something, you cant unequip it. You *can* however add to it - so your juve with 2 pistols could get a lasgun, but couldnt excange one of the pistols for it. You can only have 3 weapons max, unwieldy weapons take two slots. Currentyl, the krumper is the only ranged unwieldy weapon.
2) No, not when youre inititally starting, though you *can* equip newly hired gangmembers with tradepost stuff. Bit of a bummer, that...
1) If you equipped a fighter with something, you cant unequip it. You *can* however add to it - so your juve with 2 pistols could get a lasgun, but couldnt excange one of the pistols for it. You can only have 3 weapons max, unwieldy weapons take two slots. Currentyl, the krumper is the only ranged unwieldy weapon.
2) No, not when youre inititally starting, though you *can* equip newly hired gangmembers with tradepost stuff. Bit of a bummer, that...
Thank you!
This sounds annoying though. You need to leave gangers free weapon slots, so that they can later get a weapon you actually wanted for them. How one is supposed to model that? I wished that I could have just build most models with one set of gear and leave it at that.
Also, at what point can a juve surpass their weapon limitations? Are those for starting only, or do they need to graduate to specialist(?) in order to get better guns?
Crimson - whilst its a tricky method you could easily build two or three gangers with the same head/body/hair and then change their weapons. So that your character has 3 variations of equipment - representing their evolution as a character through a campaign.
Overread wrote: Crimson - whilst its a tricky method you could easily build two or three gangers with the same head/body/hair and then change their weapons. So that your character has 3 variations of equipment - representing their evolution as a character through a campaign.
I obviously could, but I really don't want to! I mean maybe for champions/leaders, but not for regular gangers.
But this makes the inability to drop weapons even more perplexing, as I assumed it was exactly to prevent the need to alter/switch models, but it doesn't even do that. It just makes managing the gear more annoying, as you need to anticipate what role you want a ganger to play in the future and what gear you might later acquire.
I think the key thing here is to get out of the mindset that Gangers are particularly important - they're much more like Henchmen from Mordheim than Gangers were in Oldcromunda, so you probably won't be adding to or changing them much anyway - you'll buy a wee blob of "close range dudes" with shotguns or autopistols, and a wee blob of "mid range dudes" with autoguns or whatever, and unless their random advancements *really* heavily weight them towards a specific role as the campaign goes on they'll continue to fill those roles throughout just getting a little better at it.
Your creds and rare item searches will be used on your "Heroes"(Leader, Champions, Juves, and later Gangers who've rolled the Specialist advance) and since the new rules appear to give you much more agency in *how* "Heroes" advance(IIRC I saw someone stating that you can "buy" specific characteristic increases with XP, and rolling a skill you already have lets you pick one of your choice from that list instead) you can even be fairly sure of what to arm those guys with when you build them to "future proof" the models for your planned advancements. In the few cases where you'd want to field a "Hero" with a radically different loadout, it's probably better to just build a copy with the different gear.
The day after the Miniwargaming owners were in Nottingham.
Why is it that influencers on social media are fined if they don't disclose that they are being paid to promote something, yet you-tubers aren't? MWG have obviously accepted cash or goods from a company, who in turn are asking for favorable content reviews.
Nonsense. It was a bad review. He interrupted his cohost constantly and deliberately towards to the end of the review.
They focus almost exclusively on the balance of the teams and the activation mechanic. They did not discuss many of the mechanics at all. They did very little to test the balance of the teams. (Not even one game with the sides switched.) ultimately this was not really a review at all.
I think if the video had been titled 'first impressions' rather than the very loaded term 'review', he would have got a lot fewer complaints.
Agreed, that josh guy got eaten alive for his ridiculous OOT bitching about the game. I forced myself to sit down and watch the battle reports and he played abysmally. Escher beat Goliath on this in shooting, better guns, range, and are more mobile and instead of playing to ANY of that he repeatedly just charged lone gangers in against either two goliaths or a goliath in charge range of another, could absolutely not wrap his brain around the activation system, used his strategy cards bizarrely and had terrible fortune with his dice throughout. And at no stage did they swap the gangs to test if it might have been player fault vs gang/rules.
He then went on a childish awful screed about how gakky the game was because he was crap at it, his repeated comments about the tiles (frisbee, coaster, kindling etc etc) were childish garbage, I'm buying the boxed set BECAUSE of the tiles, as a 30k player they are a pot of gold for me.
And yeah, he treated the other presenter like his bitch.
I would surmise his apology wasn't at GW's behest but by the MWG owners gaking a brick on watching his review, reading the comments under it, reading the fallout comments on their board, reading the comments here and then realizing the likelihood of being part of the blogs, youtubers etc who do receive previews and who stay relevant that way...
As I said in their youtube comments, the very best way MWG could apologize would be have the game reviewed by two other presenters, have them play all 6 scenarios, switch gangs half way though and then produce a constructive and fair appraisal afterwards instead of the pouty tantrum we got from this manbaby.
Scott-S6 wrote: Youtubers should be and can be. The video has to be marked as containing a paid endorsement even if they just got the stuff for free. Report it and it'll be pulled or demonetised (or marked correctly).
There's a difference between a paid endorsement and being sent a preview/review copy.
No, there isn't. Free stuff is compensation. You really think these guys that get sent all the free stuff don't consider making their reviews less negative in order to keep the free stuff flowing?
If they get a review copy that they have to either buy or return after reviewing it then that's fine. If it's free stuff they keep then it's paid.
From the FTC (emphasis mine):
The FTC’s Endorsement Guides provide that if there is a “material connection” between an endorser and an advertiser – in other words, a connection that might affect the weight or credibility that consumers give the endorsement – that connection should be clearly and conspicuously disclosed, unless it is already clear from the context of the communication. A material connection could be a business or family relationship, monetary payment, or the gift of a free product. Importantly, the Endorsement Guides apply to both marketers and endorsers.
Yodhrin wrote: I think the key thing here is to get out of the mindset that Gangers are particularly important - they're much more like Henchmen from Mordheim than Gangers were in Oldcromunda, so you probably won't be adding to or changing them much anyway - you'll buy a wee blob of "close range dudes" with shotguns or autopistols, and a wee blob of "mid range dudes" with autoguns or whatever, and unless their random advancements *really* heavily weight them towards a specific role as the campaign goes on they'll continue to fill those roles throughout just getting a little better at it.
Well, I was mainly thinking about modelling stuff here. The starting gang weapon lists are super limited. The Escher can't have stub guns, the Goliaths can't have autoguns, and neither can't have basic melee weapons such as basic axes or clubs. Maybe the legacy gang rules fix some of this, we'll see.
BrookM wrote: The bases included with the core game are a pleasant surprise, so sharp in detail! Certainly a massive step up from those earlier boxed sets they put out, where I found the details to be soft or well.. blurry for a lack of words. They're also not attached to any sprue or show signs of having been attached to one so I'm guessing GW busted out the fancy stuff to cast these up so nice and crisp.
It's not just the core game. It's the gang boxes as well, which is very surprising.
Scott-S6 wrote: No, there isn't. Free stuff is compensation. You really think these guys that get sent all the free stuff don't consider making their reviews less negative in order to keep the free stuff flowing?
If they get a review copy that they have to either buy or return after reviewing it then that's fine. If it's free stuff they keep then it's paid.
You're splitting hairs.
Being paid to promote something is different to being sent, for example, a review code to review a game for a website. One is intended for the purposes of promotion, whereas the other is for critique.
Scott-S6 wrote: No, there isn't. Free stuff is compensation. You really think these guys that get sent all the free stuff don't consider making their reviews less negative in order to keep the free stuff flowing?
If they get a review copy that they have to either buy or return after reviewing it then that's fine. If it's free stuff they keep then it's paid.
You're splitting hairs.
Being paid to promote something is different to being sent, for example, a review code to review a game for a website. One is intended for the purposes of promotion, whereas the other is for critique.
No the FTC regulations are explicit about this. Receiving a free item is compensation and the review must be called out as a paid endorsement.
Some companies require review samples to be returned or they provide time locked codes for access to games. In those cases it is not compensation. If the review samples are gifted to reviewers then it is compensation.
The FTC rules are crystal clear and since youtube has its HQ in the states these are the rules that it must follow.
I'll repeat this since you didn't bother to read it.
The FTC’s Endorsement Guides provide that if there is a “material connection” between an endorser and an advertiser – in other words, a connection that might affect the weight or credibility that consumers give the endorsement – that connection should be clearly and conspicuously disclosed, unless it is already clear from the context of the communication. A material connection could be a business or family relationship, monetary payment, or the gift of a free product. Importantly, the Endorsement Guides apply to both marketers and endorsers.
1) If you equipped a fighter with something, you cant unequip it. You *can* however add to it - so your juve with 2 pistols could get a lasgun, but couldnt excange one of the pistols for it. You can only have 3 weapons max, unwieldy weapons take two slots. Currentyl, the krumper is the only ranged unwieldy weapon.
Well that'll lead to a house rule.
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Rolsheen wrote: It's weird that the named models from the starter set use the points from the Gang War supplement not the rulebook
Very inconsistent and just diminishes the argument to have 2 different "versions" of the same game at the same time. Where 1 version is "starter box only" and the other is "full game". Instead of vasting time on the garbage starter-box-only version, they should use that time and resource to make full-game version available.
But they couldn't even put in a Heavy Bolter, something most of the Gangs have access to? And too much of an effort to put in Power Axes? Well, 'least my Delaque leader can now parry with his axe! Yay?
Oh I read it. Just don't recall seeing a review with a "paid promotion" notice anywhere. If y'all got an example I'll shut up. In the meantime though, you can.
So isn't there an inconsistency between the stats of the Boltgun in the Legacy Rules and those in Underhive?
The Bolter part of the Combi-Needle Rifle in Underhive is D:2 with a 6+ ammo check. The Legacy one is D:1 and a 4+ ammo check.
The Bolt Pistol in Legacy matches up with the Underhive stats for a Bolt round (D2, Ammo 6+) so it seems to be an error.
Also the Two-Handed Weapon is just all around worse then the Fighting Knife for an additional +5 Creds. Seem like it should have higher damage or a positive Strength modifier.
Voodoo_Chile wrote: So isn't there an inconsistency between the stats of the Boltgun in the Legacy Rules and those in Underhive?
The Bolter part of the Combi-Needle Rifle in Underhive is D:2 with a 6+ ammo check. The Legacy one is D:1 and a 4+ ammo check.
The Bolt Pistol in Legacy matches up with the Underhive stats for a Bolt round (D2, Ammo 6+) so it seems to be an error.
Also the Two-Handed Weapon is just all around worse then the Fighting Knife for an additional +5 Creds. Seem like it should have higher damage or a positive Strength modifier.
Jesus Christ! They had months to get this six page leaflet right. Don´t they do any sort of proof-reading? Hopefully they correct these inconsistencies right away and publish a flawless version tomorrow.
Oh I read it. Just don't recall seeing a review with a "paid promotion" notice anywhere. If y'all got an example I'll shut up. In the meantime though, you can.
So your argument is that since the regulations are poorly enforced then they don't exist?
Well that's the kind of quality argument I'd expect from you.
So there is no allowance for Escher and Goliath to take weapons from the legacy list even though many of their old models have weapons that only exist on that list and not on their new weapon list?
Crimson wrote: So there is no allowance for Escher and Goliath to take weapons from the legacy list even though many of their old models have weapons that only exist on that list and not on their new weapon list?
I don't think so (for now at least) but that is prob offset by the legacy gangs not having access to the new house specific gear.
I am sure there will be some kind of compendium at some point. Or additional content as the other gangs come out. Could always just house rule it that every gang has access to all equipment till then. Chainsword has rules (Gor Half-Horn FW download) but neither of the current gangs have access to one yet.
I am sure there will be some kind of compendium at some point. Or additional content as the other gangs come out. Could always just house rule it that every gang has access to all equipment till then. Chainsword has rules (Gor Half-Horn FW download) but neither of the current gangs have access to one yet.
I could write my own rules or alternatively people who are actually paid to write rules could do so! These legacy rules were supposed to allow using old models, well they don't.
OK, but that's not my fault, just suggesting temporary work around's in case you absolutely, definitely must have a chainsword right now. Necro players have been out in the cold the last decade or so, making house rules is second nature.
But they couldn't even put in a Heavy Bolter, something most of the Gangs have access to?
Which gangs had a heavy bolter model? Orlocks, Cawdor? Did Goliaths? The 1995 ones might have done, but not the Specialist Games ones (they got an autocannon, IIRC).
I am sure there will be some kind of compendium at some point. Or additional content as the other gangs come out. Could always just house rule it that every gang has access to all equipment till then. Chainsword has rules (Gor Half-Horn FW download) but neither of the current gangs have access to one yet.
Legacy Rules: Fighting Knife:
Range S:- L:E
Acc S:- L:-
S
AP:-1
D:1
Backstab, Melee
Goatboy´s PDF: Chainsword:
Range S:- L:E
Acc S:- L:+1
S
AP:-1
D:1
Melee, Parry
Just a couple of questions on my part:
1. Why is there a range distinction for hand to hand weapons? They are close combat weapons after all and you would only need base to base contact anyway or am I wrong here?
2. What does "E" mean in Range (L)?
Agreed. Given how long they have been talking about Legacy rules I had expected they might put more effort into these.
If I'm being kind the limited variety of weapons is probably a balancing issue, where they don't want some weapon on an OOP model to be game breaking because it didn't get play tested.
But at the same time, how did they not proof read these and catch the glaringly obvious mistakes.
Doesn't change that fact that your post was trash.
